Forgotten Heroes/Villians

[-K-M-]

Well it should be no surprise with the various revamps Alpha Flight has developed some characters that have gone the wayside or haven’t been used in a long time. What is your top 5 heroes and top 5 villains who you would like to make a comeback (you can even add the top 5 who you DON’T want to come back)? Just to note they don’t necessarily have to be in Alpha Flight book but used by Marvel (BONUS say which book you would like them to appear in) - Add others if I missed anyone.


Stipulations: This doesn’t apply to characters who recently appeared so characters prior to Vol.4’s release (July, 2011).

Heroes
- BOX (Roger Bochs)
- Centennial (Rutherford Princeton)
- Earthmover (Charles “Chuck” Moss)
- Feedback (Albert Louis)
- Finch (Toby Wood)
- Flex (Adrian Corbo)
- Ghost Girl (Lili Stephenson)
- Goblyn (Goblyn Dean)
- Groundhog (Sean Benard)
- Jade Dragon
- Manbot (Bernie Lachenay)
- Manikin (Whitman Knapp)
- Mar
- Monroe twins (Jenny & Malcom)
- Murmur (Arlette Truffaut)
- Nemesis (Various)
- Ouija (Bill Astin)
- Pathway (Laura Dean)
- Radius (Jared Corbo)
- Stitch (Jodi Furman)
- Weapon Omega (Michael Pointer)
- Wyre (Unrevealed)
- Yukon Jack (Yukotujakzuejimozoata)

Deceased: Auric (Zhao Tang), Diamond Lil (Lilian Crawley-Jeffries), Major Mapleleaf II (Louis Sadler Jr), Puck II (Zuzha Yu), Saint Elmo, Silver (Jimon Tang)

Villains
- Auctionner (Unrevealed)
- Brass Bishop (Various)
- Carcass
- China Force (Rabbit, Ox, Rat, Snake)
- Deadly Ernest
- Dreamqueen
- Flashback (Gardner Monroe)
- Gilded Lily (Lillian von Loont)
- Hardliners (Reginald Tork)
- Headlok (Arthur Goddard)
- Llan the Sorcerer
- Mauvais (Jean-Pierre)
- Pestilence(F.R. Crozier)
- Plodex
- Razer
- Rok
- Wild Child (Kyle Gibney)
- Witchfire (Ananym)
- Weapon P.R.I.M.E. (Various)

Deceased: Bedlam (Unrevealed), BOX II (Jerry Jaxon), Breakdown (Unrevealed), Freakout (Unrevealed), Janus (Unrevealed), Scramble, the Mixed-up Man (Lionel Jeffries), Smart Alec (Alexander Thorne), Weapon X III (Unrevealed)
=======================
My List of characters I would like to come back:

Heroes:
1. Monroe twins
2. Diamond Lil
3. Earthmover
4. Feedback
5. Ghost Girl

Villians:
1. Dreamqueen
2. Witchfire
3, Scramble
4. Gilded Lily
5. Wild Child

[Phil]

1-5: Wyre.

[Le Messor]

It's weird, but (and I've just reread that in my New Warriors reread) only one of Silver/Auric died, at least in an issue - but later, they were both spoken about as dead.

"Ouija (Bill Astin)"... Wait, Ouija's a dude?

On to the question:
Earthmover (one of very few legacy characters in Marvel, let alone Alpha)
Jade Dragon (I love me some dwaggins!)
Gilded Lily
Dreamqueen.

Of course, I'd love to see them all in a well-done Alpha Flight book :wink:. Failing that, it'd be nice to see them used to their potential.

Also, I wouldn't put China Force as villains - they're just like Alpha in their first appearance. They were rivals to 'our' team, but good guys working for their government to bring back one of their own. (We could stand to see them again, but I'm not yearning for it.)

~ Le Messor
"Although men are accused of not knowing their own weakness, yet perhaps as few know their own strength. It is in men as in soils, where sometimes there is a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."
~ Jonathan Swift

[Ranger1966]

Deceased: Bedlam (Unrevealed), BOX II (Jerry Jaxon), Breakdown (Unrevealed), Freakout (Unrevealed), Janus (Unrevealed), Scramble, the Mixed-up Man (Lionel Jeffries), Smart Alec (Alexander Thorne), Weapon X III (Unrevealed)
Freakout (Arthur Van Krijg), Janus (Willem Vincent), Breakdown (Esme Fernando) all received real names in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z Update #5. Bedlam (William Nowlan) received a real name in the Marvel Atlas #2 and Rok (Damon Mathias) in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z Hardcover Vol. 13.


As far as forgotten heroes/villains returnees i wouldn't mind seeing all of them make an enventual return along with


Box IV (Roger Bochs, Jr.) from Avengers: The Hunt.
Validator's Omega Flight from the Avengers.
Weapon P.R.I.M.E. from X-Force.
Canada Corp's hero team (Puck-Man, Ms. Puck-Man, Beaver and Moositaur from Deadpool #1000.
A few other Canadian characters i would like to see as well (Transonic (Laurie Tromette), Living Totem (Whistle Pig), Cascade (Ross Kinkaid) and Prodigy (Timothy Wilkerson) recently depowered by Doc Green/Hulk.


Also Dragonfire (Zaoxing) and Coldmoon (Wanxia) from the Avengers story in the Point One issue could be tied to Auric/Gold and Silver and added to a new Beta/Gamma Flight.

[rplass]

Whoa, Ranger1966 comes out of nowhere with a hyper-detailed mega-hardcore Alpha Flight fan post! Welcome to the boards! That's some first post.

Heroes (I'd like an all-kids team, a Beta Flight):
1. Manikin
2. Radius
3. Flex
4. Murmur
5. Ghost Girl
6. Mar
7. Pathway

Villians:
1. Scramble
2. Plodex
3. The Master (I know he's not listed but I like him as the classic AF villian for my Beta Flight team)

[Le Messor]

Whoa, Ranger1966 comes out of nowhere with a hyper-detailed mega-hardcore Alpha Flight fan post! Welcome to the boards! That's some first post.

Yah! There was a bunch of stuff in there I didn't even know. Moositaur? :D That's awesome.

Apologies, though, Ranger - I've edited your post. All I've done is remove most of the quoted text from K-M, since there was a lot of it and it's still showing in the beginning of the thread (I left in the part about the deceased with unknown names).

Welcome aboard, and sorry I did that to you as a welcome. :/

~ Le Messor
"People do not change with the times; they change the times."
~ P.K. Shaw

[Ranger1966]

I should have edited it myself so i appreciate you doing it for me and thanks for the welcomes :)

[Le Messor]

Live and learn.
Also, you're welcome for the thank you for the welcome. :D

Also also: Is it Auctionner or Auctioneer?

[Bill P]

Heroes
Pathway
Goblyn
Groundhog
Manbot
Stich

Villains
Dream Queen (by a country mile, best Alpha villain)
Omega Flight
- Wild Child
- Diamond Lil
- Smart ALec
- Flash Back
- Box
- Witch Fire
China Force

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Heroes I'd like to see come back, well-done:

(1 & 2) Jimon and Zhao Tang
(3) Diamond Lil/Lillian Crawley (wouldn't mind if she were an AF adversary)
(4) Chuck Moss/Earthmover (in conflict with the Norse equivalent from the X-Men/AF 2-parter "The Gift")
(5) Roger Bochs (not crazy)

Villians I'd like to see come back, well-done:

(1) Dreamqueen
(2) Witchfire
(3) Scorpio (and the Zodiac, which would make it more than 5, I know)
(4) Pestilence
(5) Bedlam


Characters I don't want to come back

(1) SCRAMBLE
(2) Rok
(3) Auctioneer
(4) China Force
(5) Jade Dragon
(5+) Razer

[Sypes]

Heroes

Radius
Flex
Murmur
Manikin
Mar

Villains:
Gilded Lily
Bedlam
Scramble
Plodex
China Force

[Mokole]

Heroes:
Feedback (could be a quite useful and powerful character, in many ways)
Box, Jr. (Need Box back)
Flinch (Can really help give new direction to the team with his powers)
Ghost Girl (ditto)
Killjoy of Weapon P.R.I.M.E.
[Earthmover as a possible if the team goes mystic (Shaman, Puck, Snowbird, Talisman; after all mutants, inhumans, advanced humans, why not a team of magic?)]

Villains:
Dreamqueen (so, so much can be done with her)
Omega Flight (villains, back under the Master's control)
Hardliners (another group to fight)
Witchfire (with Persuasion, who works well as a villain)
Plodex (needs explaining)

[Phil]

One of the great things I really liked about Byrne's Alpha Flight was the whole family aspect to it.
You had Mac & Heather who were man and wife, JP & JM who were siblings, Shaman who was essentially a father to Snowbird (more so than he actually was to his own daughter, who in turn went on to join the team)

Post-Byrne we had Pathway & Goblyn which was a very unique take on siblings and family drama, the Jeffries brothers, Heather adopting Purple Girl.

Later on we had Flex who was intended to be Wolverine's son, and Wolverine was practially family to Mac & Heather at one point.
We've had Puck II and Major Maple Leaf II continuing that legacy theme along with Mar, and then we've seen the Munroe twins, Box Jr & Validator.

I'd really like to see some kind of Alpha Flight 2099-esque team, although maybe nearer to Alpha Flight 2029 in actual time:

Flex (as leader)
Validator
Chuck Moss
Box Jr
Pathway/Goblyn
Mar (as some kind of genderfluid plodex, similar to Xavin in Runaways)
The previously unseen son of Walt Langkowski in some capacity
Claire Hudson from the future ala Franklin Richards, who is revealed as a mutant.

[Le Messor]

Shaman who was essentially a father to Snowbird (more so than he actually was to his own daughter, who in turn went on to join the team)

... and who was essentially a sister to Heather.


The previously unseen son of Walt Langkowski in some capacity

I used to think that'd turn out to be Wild Child.

~ Le Messor
"Smartness runs in my family. When I went to school I was so smart my teacher was in my class for five years."
~ Gracie Allen

[Sypes]

One of the great things I really liked about Byrne's Alpha Flight was the whole family aspect to it.
I'd really like to see some kind of Alpha Flight 2099-esque team, although maybe nearer to Alpha Flight 2029 in actual time:

Flex (as leader)
Validator
Chuck Moss
Box Jr
Pathway/Goblyn
Mar (as some kind of genderfluid plodex, similar to Xavin in Runaways)
The previously unseen son of Walt Langkowski in some capacity
Claire Hudson from the future ala Franklin Richards, who is revealed as a mutant.


I LOVE everything you just said! Absolutely second that! I'd love for them to take on society issues as well. Things like social inequalities, transgendered issues, religion, faith vs science... anything to push bounderies beyond the regular violence and sexy bodies we see in comics now.

[Le Messor]

I'd love for them to take on society issues as well. Things like social inequalities, transgendered issues, religion, faith vs science... anything to push bounderies beyond the regular violence and sexy bodies we see in comics now.

I'd hope not, myself.
Comics often do that kind of thing already, and (I'm afraid) usually pretty badly - they just preach the same lessons over and over, taking very predictable stances on all of those issues and are unsubtle in doing it. Unless they find something new to add, it's getting pretty dull.

That's been my finding, anyway.

~ Le Messor

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...I'd love for them to take on society issues as well. Things like social inequalities, transgendered issues, religion, faith vs science... anything to push bounderies beyond the regular violence and sexy bodies we see in comics now.

I agree with Le Messor on this. Comics should be entertaining, and there are business-minded folks who would want Alpha Flight to sell well. I don't think taking on these issues will be either entertaining or profitable. I sure hope no one decides to use Alpha Flight as an experiment to find out; AF has a hard enough time getting a conventional mini/maxi-series.

[Phil]

I agree with both sides here; religion is such a hard thing to cover in comics & I don't think it should be tackled as there's a genuine difference between religion, organised religion, faith & personal faith and there's nothing universal about it, which to me is the point, especially with my beliefs.
[As an aside, PLEASE let's not have this thread focus on religion as we've lost enough people because of that recently.]
However, I do agree there has to be something more substantial than Hero vs Villain slugfest repeat ad infinitum (and equally, if not more so, hero vs hero)

[Le Messor]

[As an aside, PLEASE let's not have this thread focus on religion as we've lost enough people because of that recently.]

Agreed. Trying to be as general as possible.


However, I do agree there has to be something more substantial than Hero vs Villain slugfest repeat ad infinitum (and equally, if not more so, hero vs hero)

Also true. (And if I never see another hero vs hero 'event', it'll be too soon.)
That said, my attitude has long been 'come for the slugfest - stay for the characters'. It isn't the fights which make me care about them (though, if they're helping people / saving the world, it helps); it's getting to know and care about the people who have the monthly adventures.

~ Le Messor
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
~ Mark Twain

[Mokole]

Me, I prefer far and away good guy vs. bad guy stories, intelligent ones too. Trying to be politically correct or sounding off on one ideology or another simply drives fans away in droves. Sometimes those social issue things are done well, but usually not. I think of some comics my Grandma had in her house a long time ago; none were popular or lasted long but she had them because they had little violence, or none. She had one issue of Green Arrow and it was more a story about heroes and villains, and it was so worn out by all us grandkids reading it and it alone. The other hero books she had that were focused on social issues more than a story involving heroes got dusty but unread. My experience. My boys far and away like hero vs villain stories and rarely read new comics because they lack that so much, they get frustrated by the poor storytelling and meandering point.

[Phil]

Oh political correctness and ideology have no place in comics, I agree.
But if you look at Byrne's run how much of it was just good guy vs bad guy?
For me the things that make it so unique was the fact that he deconstructed the team and the notions, and the stories were far more intelligent and touching on social issues than simple spandex slugfests.

[Le Messor]

Yes - Byrne's run was very character-driven, with not so much evil, world-conquering types as people who had a strong tie to each character's origin / past. (Even the evil, world-conquering types.)

He worked it in smoothly, so it never felt ham-fisted. It felt like it was planned.

That was Alpha Flight's blessing, that was its curse.
I call it a blurse.

In some ways, it cut them off from certain kinds of stories - common kinds of stories in superhero comics. I felt it strongest during Acts Of Vengeance - if all Alpha's villains were tied intimately to Alpha characters, who could go to the US to represent?

~ LM
"Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself."
~ William Faulkner

[Phil]

In some ways, it cut them off from certain kinds of stories - common kinds of stories in superhero comics. I felt it strongest during Acts Of Vengeance - if all Alpha's villains were tied intimately to Alpha characters, who could go to the US to represent?

I think therein lies the problem of AF's mass unappeal, and ties it back into KM's initial point of the thread; whereas Avengers, Spider-Man, X-Men etc. have specific villains that have ties to their members they do quite often crossover and fight other heroes, Kingpin going from a Spider-Man villain to a Daredevil villain being the most prominent example off the top of my head.
Alpha's villains have never really been used by anyone else, and no major MU villains have been used well in the pages of AF.

[-K-M-]

Exactly only a few AF villians appeared else where. The biggest would be the Master of the world which was shown a lot of respect in heroes for hire and the avengers. Then the great beasts (their appearance in X-Man was bad though) and I suppose Pink Pearl (which I find very surprising)

dreamqueen could make the easiest transition to another book I feel that hasn't already been utilized

[Le Messor]

Yeah, I was surprised by Pink Pearl, too.
The big waste is Gilded Lily - I love her as a character, but she's had no more than two appearances. :(

~ LM

[Phil]

Pink Pearl's essentially been used as a background supporting thug though.
It'd be different if she were a major threat.

[-K-M-]

I'm still surprised she's used even for that to be honest. She lasted far longer then I thought she would ever

[Le Messor]

Me, too, K-M-.

[Phil]

I do like the fact that she's been in more issues of both Captain America and Secret Avengers than she actually was in Alpha Flight.

[Le Messor]

There've been a couple of things like that. Guardian had a superpower he never used in volume 1 (except in flashback to the X-Men). - his 'staying still in relation to the earth' thing.

Also, they never faced one of their biggest foes in their own comic, at least during volume 1: Wendigo.

~ Le Messor
"Adversity does not make us frail; it only shows us how frail we are."
~ Abraham Lincoln

[Ranger1966]

The Avengers have taken on Red Ronin, The Champions, Godzilla so i would like to see Alpha Flight take on Yetrigar at some point.

[-K-M-]

I would be for that, if the team is going to be successful they need crossovers...lots of crossovers

[Legerd]

I'd really like to see some kind of Alpha Flight 2099-esque team...

I was thinking of doing a fanfic of AF 2099 a few years ago. It would involve some new characters, some legacy characters, and some of the original characters.

Guardian: the great grandson of the Hudsons who is a tech genius, and ace pilot who wears an improved version of the armour. He tries to be the team leader, but is too much of an irresponsible jerkwad.

Inukshuk: son of Snowbird and an unnamed god. He is the god of the land whose powers were super strength, invulnerability, immortality, animal control, earth control, and the ability to draw power from the Earth.

Shaman: the great granddaughter of Talisman born with a natural affinity for magic. Besides possessing the mystic pouch she can control nature and the nature spirits with ease, but like Michael and Elizabeth she has trouble interpreting visions.

Kemono: mutant of Japanese decent whose powers grant him heightened senses, strength, speed, and healing, but doesn't suffer from anger issues like most feral heroes do. And before anyone makes a joke kemono is not a type of robe (kimono) but translates as "beast."

Manacle: mutant and former SHIELD agent with mental powers of telepathy and motor cortex control. She's the real team leader which causes her to butt heads with Guardian.

Vitesse: a clone created by the Master from the genetic material of both Northstar and Aurora. She has all the powers of the twins cranked to 11.

Hudson: a sentient AI program that acts as the team's supervisor and mentor. When the Master attempted to kill James, Heather, and (the adult) Claire Hudson it is believed Mac survived long enough to upload his consciousness into a supercomputer he and his daughter had designed and built. From that moment on Hudson has worked non-stop to keep Canada safe from any and all threats.

[-K-M-]

Would actually like to see more of Project Epsilon

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/Project_Epsilon_zpsr20li9u7.png

[Legerd]

Sorry, every time I see the name Goldensnow I think of yellow snow. :-&

[Phil]

Funny to think that back in 2000 2012 was far off in the future.

[Mekko Hotvle]

I am now very interested in the Project Epsilon after KM posted it. seems like it would be a interesting arc to read. I also would like to see the AF 2099 come to fruition.