How would people feel if...

[Phil]

... Volume 5 was entitled 'Northstar & Alpha Flight' ?

[Sypes]

Depends what the story would be. Maybe "Northstar & Beta Flight" if he was the teacher / trainer and use his experience as Xmen teacher...

[Mekko Hotvle]

Who would be on his Alpha Flight team? Mixture of original and newer members?

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Northstar & Alpha Flight? I like the idea of having Northstar being included in a volume 5. However, if Northstar is the major character, then I have to note that Northstar has already had his own mini-series (in the 90's), Northstar and Aurora got a huge amount of page-time in volume 4 (to the detriment of other characters), and vol. 4 was different from vol.3, which was different from vol.2, which was different from vol. 1.

Without taking it to OMEGA FLIGHT mini-series extremes, a roster with some recognizable characters and maybe 1 or 2 new/not-usual-to-Alpha Flight characters is what I would like to see.

OTOH, if a particular Alpha Flight character is to be high-lighted, Northstar appears to be the logical choice. He is the most high-profiled member.

[Phil]

It was just me spitballing ideas.

Marvel have said that they still have 15 titles left to announce, shipping in December onwards.
December solicits will be announced in September.
Fan Expo Toronto is in September... This would be a great time to announce an AF series...

I don't think an AF series will get a chance, based on the 45 titles already announced, however there are the constant rumours and rumblings of a Northstar series, based on that trademark a while back.
Would having the addition of Northstar in the title add some extra sales that just plain 'Alpha Flight' wouldn't, due to his X-Men connection and all the publicity from his wedding?
Or would a solo Northstar series work/sell better in the current market?

[rplass]

Northstar / Dazzler team-up is still my realistic guess. I already predicted this : http://www.alphaflight.net/showthread.php?5808-The-Nu-Marvel-52-(Fantasy-Publishing)&p=82762&viewfull=1#post82762 and I got X-Club right!

[Mekko Hotvle]

Sasquatch should be on the Howling Commandos team. Or just bring back Alfalfa Flight.

[-K-M-]

Well technically Walter was briefly on the team. The new book is a rehash of Legion of Monsters

[Le Messor]

Original question:
Personally, I wouldn't like it, to be honest. It would make me think that the ONLY reason AF had the book was because Northstar is gay. Not because he's an interesting character, or because his powers are cool, or he was an X-Man.
It certainly wouldn't be about Alpha Flight. (Garry has already cited the example of v4).
(And then, if there's a letters page, you'll get the inevitable letters implying this is the only book on the market with a gay character, and the condescending letters from Europeans about how they're better than Americans because they put sex scenes right there on the page...)

If it was 'Character And Alpha Flight', the only one who's been in every team (him, or somebody / something who looks like him) is Sasquatch.


Well technically Walter was briefly on the team. The new book is a rehash of Legion of Monsters

Did we decide that was him for sure?

~ Le Messor
"Anything too stupid to be said is sung."
~ Voltaire

[Phil]

Did we decide that was him for sure?
Yup, handbooks confirmed it.

[Le Messor]

Thanks!

I think I read about that at the time, then forgot.

[Tawmis]

I never liked the "_______ & the (Team Name)" - because I feel it limits the book. What if another writer comes on, and wants to politely exit Northstar? They can't. Northstar HAS to be on the team because it's IN the title.

[Phil]

But then they get to reboot it with a new #1 when he leaves ��

[Le Messor]

Now, Phil, that would never happen! :D

(Reminds me of the time when I picked up a copy of Nightcrawler and a copy of Amazing X-Men; and the Amazing X-Men focussed entirely on Nightcrawler, and the Nightcrawler had all the X-Men in it...)

~ Le Messor
"As ten millions of circles can never make a square, so the united voice of myriads cannot lend the smallest foundation to falsehood."
~ Oliver Goldsmith

[Tawmis]

But then they get to reboot it with a new #1 when he leaves ��

There's a reason I only collect ONE Marvel title now.

And that's because of the character in it (and who I suspect it is...)

[Le Messor]

Is that title Thor?

[Chris]

Now you got me curious too Tawmis as to what this ONE Marvel title is. I thought Thor also but the identity of Thor was revealed back in May. Those 8 issues of Thor were probably the best Marvel issues I've read lately.

[Le Messor]

the identity of Thor was revealed back in May.

Really? Who is she? (Use spoiler space. ;))

[Mokole]

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

It was revealed to be Jane Foster. NOthing I care about but there it is.

[Le Messor]

Thanks, Mokole. (Chris had PM'd me with the answer - for spoilers' sake.)

~ LM
"Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."
~ Bumper Sticker

[Tawmis]

Hah! No. It's not THOR. Jason Aaron is writing that. I gave up after issue #5 or so.

It's actually "Age of Apocalypse."

And as for who I suspect a "new" character is in the series - his name is "Burner."

But I have a feeling he's known as something else in - what was once - the 616 Universe, based off of something the character said. (and who the writer is)

[Phil]

I had the same thoughts as you on that character, and thought you'd like it ;)

[Phil]

And this strengthened our thoughts:
http://www.newsarama.com/25072-fabian-nicieza-returns-to-age-of-apocalypse-20-years-later.html


Nrama: Who are Magneto’s X-Men in this version of the Age of Apocalypse reality? Is it close to the original line-up, or are there some surprises?

Nicieza: Some surprises for sure. Familiar faces, but maybe some of them in unfamiliar roles or combinations. The X-Men are down and out, not many of them are left (and maybe a lot less after the first issue). I don't want to reveal too much about who is on the roster or who makes it through to the end. You'll see lots of the usual suspects, but you'll see some of them in a different light.

Nrama: One of the coolest parts of Age of Apocalypse was seeing all the re-imagined X-Men characters. Will we see any new ones pop-up in the Secret Wars series?


Nicieza: You will see one specific re-imagined character. I took someone and tried to do the "Sunfire treatment" with him, by radically altering their look like Scott Lobdell and Joe Madureira did in the original book with Sunfire.
You'll see who it is in Age of Apocalypse #1 and many fans will probably guess who he is well before #2 comes out.

[Tawmis]

The give away was, "It just takes one cut."

So... if I am right, I will be happy. (Not a fan of the reimaging of the character, if it is who I suspect... but I will take what I can!)

[DIGGER]

It just wouldn't work for me (the Northstar and Alpha Flight idea). Time and time again the character has stated that he did not want to be on the team so unless it was an extremely limited series... I for one would like to go back to when Alpha was slaughtered by Pointer in The Avengers and start from there (if all goes according to my plan I may have something to show in a couple of months).

[Phil]

Time and time again the character has stated that he did not want to be on the team
Yet he keeps on coming back!


so unless it was an extremely limited series
Well, judging by the pattern of 130 issues > 20 issues > 12 issues > 8 issues I'd say it'll be 6 issues at most!

[Le Messor]

Well, judging by the pattern of 130 issues > 20 issues > 12 issues > 8 issues I'd say it'll be 6 issues at most!

Sad but true!

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I hope MARVEL decides to bring Alpha Flight back in an EPIC-style, magazine format...maybe a one-shot since an on-going doesn't seem likely.
Illustrations, stories with a beginning-middle-and-end, with some prose. Black-and-white for a first printing; color if a second printing is justified.
Give it the name of the magazine that was in the Omega Flight mini-series, if Michael Oeming and Scott Kollins don't mind.

[Le Messor]

Interesting thought there, Garry. If it were Epic-style, it might be more like a creator-owned project, and therefore somebody's 'baby', so less likely to be taken out the back and shot. Like before.

OTOH, it'd be out-of-Code style (yes, I know *everything* has been out of Code for years, I said style) which I'm not fond of.

That could still be a really good series. If the creators cared about the source material, of course.

Do you mean call it Omega Flight, or the name of something that was inside the mini- and I've forgotten it? (Me, I'd prefer to call it Alpha Flight, but whatevers.)

~ Le Messor
"Anyone who does not believe in miracles is not a realist."
~ David Ben-Gurion

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I had to go back and find it (in the 1st issue of the mini-series) because I couldn't remember the title off the top of my head. It's got Alpha Flight on the cover and Dr. Strange. I just hope that a creator-owned outlet might work. At least, it would be different. Hopefully, tasteful and true to the source material.

To me, Omega Flight will always be one of Alpha's main adversaries.

[Le Messor]

I think that's the name of a real tabloid. If not, it's very close.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I thinkthat's the name of a real tabloid. If not, it's very close.
Googled "World Weekly News", got "Weekly World News"---a real tabloid (with a Bigfoot photo).

Okay, not the best title-choice. Still think a magazine-style format might work.

[Le Messor]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

It was either that or News Of The World, with a photo of a giant robot going mad and killing people.

[Phil]

I don't think an Epic-style format would sell in this market, but I do like the idea.

[Tawmis]

I thought the version of Alpha Flight we got after Chaos War was pretty good. Granted Marinna was a little over the top; but that could have been a story to develop to "calm" her down before she resumes the natural alien form thing. I thought it was a nice, clean, in your face, type of book. A shame it didn't get to become a series.

[Le Messor]

'nice, clean' AND 'in your face' all at the same time?
How does it do that!?!

[Tawmis]

'nice, clean' AND 'in your face' all at the same time?
How does it do that!?!

It's like shaving and then standing really close to someone. :)

[Phil]

I enjoyed Vol.4 a lot more than 3, it was definitely a shame to see it go.

[Le Messor]

It's like shaving and then standing really close to someone. :)

Of course! I should've seen it. :D

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I thought 8 issues of volume 4 was enough to tell that particular story. It really doesn't need to be revisited.

I liked the sleek, crisp artwork of volume 3, 'though I wish Alpha Flight wasn't treated like a joke.

The Alpha Flight/Chaos War one-shot is still good and still a good starting point for another mini-series.

[Tawmis]

I'd be fine if we got Alpha Flight minis here and there, as long as they were good.

[Le Messor]

I thought 8 issues of volume 4 was enough to tell that particular story. It really doesn't need to be revisited.

Me, I thought the 20 or so issues of v2 were MORE than enough to tell that particular story. :P

~ LM
"Remember that opportunity is a dare - not a door."
~ W.G.P.

[Tawmis]

Me, I thought the 20 or so issues of v2 were MORE than enough to tell that particular story. :P


Heh. I didn't like V2 (I remember when I first read it, I thought it was all right - but somewhere on this forum, I discussed re-reading all of my Alpha Flight, and getting to Volume 2 and making it to about the third or fourth issue - and having to stop). For V2 it was a combination of the writing feeling like it was EVERYWHERE and the art just was not my style.

No idea how I got through it when it first came out.

Do wish we got more out of Radius and Flex, since they had origins tied outside of Alpha Flight (Unus and possibly Wolverine... though I'd like to think it was Wolverine's DNA, and not a son Wolverine fathered... because that'd mean their mother had a thing for sleeping with mutants... not that there's anything wrong with that - but two different mutant fathers, both of whom sired mutant children... seems pretty unlikely!)

[Le Messor]

Heh. I didn't like V2

Me neither, so


Do wish we got more out of Radius and Flex...?

Nope.
Flex was one of the few things about v2 I had any liking for, though.

~ Le Messor
"Be nice to your kids; they'll pick out your nursing home."
~ Bumper Sticker

[Phil]

I've still got a lot of love for Vol.2.

It's not Byrne Flight, but then again few things are.

[Le Messor]

... and for some people who have been on this forum v2 is their Alpha Flight.

[Tawmis]

Flex was one of the few things about v2 I had any liking for, though.


Didn't like Radius?


I've still got a lot of love for Vol.2.
It's not Byrne Flight, but then again few things are.

I just feel like the writing was a little everywhere. Like way too many plot lines were thrown on the table at once.


... and for some people who have been on this forum v2 is their Alpha Flight.

That's sad.
:)

[Le Messor]

Didn't like Radius?

Nope. Too much of an aggressive 90s jerkhat bully. Nothing cool about him.


That's sad.

:D It's just people with different experiences and opinions.

~ Le Messor
"Aggressive people have plenty of 'pushing power', but very little 'pulling' power."
~ P.K. Shaw

[Mokole]

I liked V2. They had good ideas and should have gotten more time in my opinion, as the stories had substance and weren't run of the mill. Ghost Girl and Flinch were two characters I wanted to see developed, but alas. Even Weapon PRIME was a team I wanted to see more of, more developed. But alas.

[Alphan East]

I had much more respect for vol. 2 after seeing vol. 3. :)

[Le Messor]

I find vol. 3 bad, but enjoyable.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I don't think an Epic-style format would sell in this market, but I do like the idea.

I don't know what would sell, I just believe that if a publishing company publishes a well-thoughtout, well-executed, well-edited story with a beginning, middle, and end, people will buy it.



Me, I thought the 20 or so issues of v2 were MORE than enough to tell that particular story. :P

~ LM
"Remember that opportunity is a dare - not a door."
~ W.G.P.


Heh. I didn't like V2...

If Epsilon guards can: (1) capture and chain "Sasquatch II"; (2) detain, steal and/or harness the power of SUNFIRE; (3) de-age Mac to 18 years old; (4) capture and mind-wipe Judd and Heather at will/with ease, and; (5) harvest/grow children for Department H, what use, really, is (volume 2's version of) Alpha Flight?

[Phil]

I don't know what would sell, I just believe that if a publishing company publishes a well-thoughtout, well-executed, well-edited story with a beginning, middle, and end, people will buy it.
I'd honestly like to believe that.
I'm being the cynical one for once!


If Epsilon guards can: (1) capture and chain "Sasquatch II"; (2) detain, steal and/or harness the power of SUNFIRE; (3) de-age Mac to 18 years old; (4) capture and mind-wipe Judd and Heather at will/with ease, and; (5) harvest/grow children for Department H, what use, really, is (volume 2's version of) Alpha Flight?
That's a really good point. I've never considered it like that before.

[Tawmis]

If Epsilon guards can: (1) capture and chain "Sasquatch II"; (2) detain, steal and/or harness the power of SUNFIRE; (3) de-age Mac to 18 years old; (4) capture and mind-wipe Judd and Heather at will/with ease, and; (5) harvest/grow children for Department H, what use, really, is (volume 2's version of) Alpha Flight?

I hadn't thought of that - but that's just further proof that the writing felt like it was everywhere and not all that well planned out.

[Phil]

I think it was just an over-desire to do something very different to Vol.1 plus a LOT of editorial interference...

[Le Messor]

I don't know what would sell, I just believe that if a publishing company publishes a well-thoughtout, well-executed, well-edited story with a beginning, middle, and end, people will buy it.
I'd honestly like to believe that.
I'm being the cynical one for once!

I've often said I've observed a total lack of correlation between quality and popularity.
Marketing is important, for one thing.

Though, Garry, you're right about Epsilon. I don't think I'd thought about that either!

~ Le Messor
"Bear in mind that brains and learning, like muscle and physical skill, are articles of commerce. They are bought and sold. You can hire them by the year or by the hour. The only thing in the world not for sale is character."
~ Justice Antonin Scalia

[Tawmis]

I think it was just an over-desire to do something very different to Vol.1 plus a LOT of editorial interference...

That seemed to be a curse with Volume 2. Same exact thing happened that sank New Warriors V2.

[Le Messor]

Which was New Warriors v2 again? Was it the one during Erik Larsen's Nova?

~ Le Messor
"Beauty is in the details."
~ German proverb

[Phil]

Yup, written by Jay Faerber, who (as a fan, before his writing career) was on the original Alpha Waves list that eventually led to this board!

[Tawmis]

Yup, written by Jay Faerber, who (as a fan, before his writing career) was on the original Alpha Waves list that eventually led to this board!

^^ This.

And I actually enjoyed Jay's run - but you could tell something was happening in the background.

Jay's run was infinitely better than the "X-Mutants New Warriors"... Which COULD have been interesting, except their artist was beyond horrible - you literally could not tell the characters apart when they were out of costume.

[Phil]

I remember Jay originally wanted to use Clone-Mac from AF Vol.2 but the idea got nixed.

[Le Messor]

I seem to remember that, too.

By the "X-Mutants New Warriors", do you mean the latest version? With Jubilee?
I keep that one separate to my other runs of New Warriors, because it's a completely different book.

I don't think I knew Jay was on the original list. And yet, I was.
Hard to brain, need coffee.

~ Le Messor
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."
~ Bumper Sticker

[Tawmis]

I remember Jay originally wanted to use Clone-Mac from AF Vol.2 but the idea got nixed.

I remember hearing that too. I wonder how that would have played out. Would he have used Clone-Mac as the leader of the New Warriors? That might have felt weird. It would have felt like Alpha Flight - especially if Clone-Mac was still wearing the Vindicator/Guardian armor.


I seem to remember that, too.
By the "X-Mutants New Warriors", do you mean the latest version? With Jubilee?


There's been a version of the New Warriors since then. Done by Christopher Yost (writer) and Marcus To (artist).

I can not say enough good things about that run (with Yost & To). It's a shame that the title did not get to complete it's run (they had laid out story elements, that didn't get to see fruition because Marvel asked them to close the series at issue 12 - so at least they got to wrap up the series - but they certainly left some story elements dangling!)

http://newwarriors.com/synopsis/new-warriors/new-warriors-v5

[Le Messor]

Of course! The Sungirl / Inhumans one. I think I keep that with the original serieses.

[Mekko Hotvle]

Should they do a mixture of members from the different versions of AF or just stick to the original members? I wish they would do a Puck/Puck II mini-series! lol

[Tawmis]

Should they do a mixture of members from the different versions of AF or just stick to the original members? I wish they would be a Puck/Puck II mini-series! lol

They really should do a PUCK/PUCK II mini series.

Honestly. It could be about them reconnecting. Her kind of resentful of her father, never being there. Him telling her he never was because of all these insane adventures he was on. And by the end of the limited series, they come to an understanding.

[Le Messor]

I'd prefer them to start with the originals, then bring in other characters in time, as needed.

~ Le Messor
"Begin at once to live, and count each day as a separate life."
~ Seneca

[rplass]

I wish they would be a Puck/Puck II mini-series! lol

Oh yeah! I agree, that would be a hoot. Complete kick ass. Great suggestion, Mekko Hotvle!

[Phil]

With Puck II as a zombie?

[Le Messor]

:) There's more than one kind of undead.

[Tawmis]

With Puck II as a zombie?
Puck has been to Hell, who is to say he's not made a deal or two....

[Mekko Hotvle]

How would you name the Puck/Puck II miniseries? Meet the Pucks? Puck Yu?

[Tawmis]

How would you name the Puck/Puck II miniseries? Meet the Pucks? Puck Yu?

I'd call it: ALPHA FLIGHT: "Dead And Back Again, A Puck's Tale."
(As a nod to The Hobbit)

[Le Messor]

(As a nod to The Hobbit)

:) It was recognisable.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Puck has been to Hell, who is to say he's not made a deal or two....

For every "good" person* saved, a "bad" person* has to be saved, too (*characters in Alpha Flight; for example, if Judd makes a deal to bring Roger Bochs back, he also has to bring back somebody like Jerry Jaxon)


Should they do a mixture of members from the different versions of AF or just stick to the original members? I wish they would do a Puck/Puck II mini-series! lol

The only characters other than the originals I could see making an appearance early on are Zuzha Yu and Lou Sadler, Jr..


I'd prefer them to start with the originals, then bring in other characters in time, as needed.

~ Le Messor
"Begin at once to live, and count each day as a separate life."
~ Seneca

When volume 4 was previewed, and it had a roster with characters that had the same names as every character that was in volume 1 # 1, plus it tied in with why Marrina would be especially incensed at Attuma...I thought finally Alpha Flight was going to be restored! But then the printed version was slightly different from the preview, and...well...volume 4 is what it is.


How would you name the Puck/Puck II miniseries? Meet the Pucks? Puck Yu?

I'd vote for Puck Yu, but I don't know if it would sell enough.

[Le Messor]

For every "good" person* saved, a "bad" person* has to be saved, too (*characters in Alpha Flight; for example, if Judd makes a deal to bring Roger Bochs back, he also has to bring back somebody like Jerry Jaxon)

That's a great idea!


The only characters other than the originals ... Lou Sadler.

Which one is that again?


When volume 4 was previewed, and it had a roster with characters that had the same names as every character that was in volume 1...I thought finally Alpha Flight was going to be restored! ...well...volume 4 is what it is.

I hear ya.



How would you name the Puck/Puck II miniseries? Meet the Pucks? Puck Yu?
I'd vote for Puck Yu, but I don't know if it would sell enough.

Oh, that'd sell. :)
(And it's a brilliant pun.)

~ Le Messor
"Brains are an asset, if you hide them."
~ Mae West

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I tried to clear up some of the things from that post, but I wasn't in time! I actually meant Lou Sadler, Jr.("Major Mapleleaf" the son [not the father], the character who got "killed" along with Zuzha Yu/Puck II in New Avengers # 16). It's amazing that nobody (neither Judd nor Mac nor Walt nor Michael* nor Heather mention anything about their fallen comrades. [* the least likely to have been brain-washed] Sure, mention is made to Heather killing Snowbird way-back-when, but the two newbies...what happened to them?

[Phil]

Mentioning them means admitting Volune 3 happened...

[Tawmis]

Mentioning them means admitting Volune 3 happened...

Volume 3 wasn't all that bad (I liked some of the characters...)

The clone thing/time displaced/whatever was worse.

[Phil]

Exactly.
If they bring up one thing it'll lead to the other.

Not saying they won't bring the characters back from the dead at some point; comics after all.

[Le Messor]

For all its problems, 3 isn't my least favourite volume.

It's the only thing in the world I'm willing to call a 'guilty pleasure': for me, everything else is too guilty to be a pleasure, or too pleasurable to feel guilty about. (In practical terms, what that means is: If the guilt is about morality, if I think something is immoral to do, I try not to do it. (Which doesn't always mean I succeed.) OTOH, if it's about quality: if the point of something is enjoyment, and I'm enjoying it, I have a hard time saying it's bad. I can, however, see the objective badness of v3 but still enjoy it.)

Edit: Garry, looking at your post above, do you sometimes get that thing where you put up your post and all your carriage returns disappear? (That's actually the reason for this edit.)

~ Le Messor
"Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever."
~ Anonymous

[Mekko Hotvle]

I actually enjoyed V3. That's not saying much as that is the only volume I have been able to read from start to end with the help of the TBPs being on sale. I was skipping around reading V1 due to the order I was buying the back issues as I find them and I still have a few big gaps in my V1 collection to fill. My favorite so far has been the team-up of F4 and the scrambled eggs attacking. With AF having tribal related characters also helped keep my interest. the only crazy moment I have had and got me going...WTH...is when Walter is a woman. Which I labeled the Caitlyn Issue. sorry to be off topic. Bring back dead Puck II!

[Phil]

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed V3 a lot.
It did seriously damage AF's reputation though as they became a joke team with a joke book.

Hence the decision to kill them off.

Enough time has passed so they're finally respected again; they won't complicate things.

[Tawmis]

I actually enjoyed V3. That's not saying much as that is the only volume I have been able to read from start to end with the help of the TBPs being on sale. I was skipping around reading V1 due to the order I was buying the back issues as I find them and I still have a few big gaps in my V1 collection to fill. My favorite so far has been the team-up of F4 and the scrambled eggs attacking. With AF having tribal related characters also helped keep my interest. the only crazy moment I have had and got me going...WTH...is when Walter is a woman. Which I labeled the Caitlyn Issue. sorry to be off topic. Bring back dead Puck II!

Heh - well technically the topic of this thread started as ALPHA FLIGHT being called (TEAM MEMBER) AND ALPHA FLIGHT (like NORTHSTAR and ALPHA FLIGHT as the series name; sort of like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN).

For Volume 1 - what issues are you missing?

And if you're only WTF moment in V1 was the Walter as a woman, I'm surprised!

[Tawmis]

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed V3 a lot.
It did seriously damage AF's reputation though as they became a joke team with a joke book.
Hence the decision to kill them off.
Enough time has passed so they're finally respected again; they won't complicate things.

Which is odd - because look at the Great Lake Avengers, or Squirrel Girl... Plenty of joke characters that actually thrive...

Of course, the New Warriors suffered the same fate; that dreaded limited series (very cartoony and silly story) sealed their fate apparently to be the ones to die to trigger Civil War...

[Le Messor]

My favorite so far has been the team-up of F4 and the scrambled eggs attacking.

Issues #2-4 and 18? Those are some of my favourites, too.


... when Walter is a woman. Which I labeled the Caitlyn Issue.

That's more than one issue.


V3... It did seriously damage AF's reputation though as they became a joke team with a joke book.

Hence the guilt to my pleasure. :oops:


And if you're only WTF moment in V1 was the Walter as a woman, I'm surprised!

Mekko does have some huge (but as yet undisclosed) gaps...


Which is odd - because look at the Great Lake Avengers, or Squirrel Girl... Plenty of joke characters that actually thrive...

Howard The Duck, JLI...
I know it's subjective, but I enjoy the humour in all those books more than v3 (but I do enjoy the humour in v3).

There's something... a certain je ne sais quoi that makes those titles all different to v3. I want to say they respect their characters, but not all of them do. There's a respectability to them, though, that's lacking in v3.

~ Le Messor
"Tony the Tiger, Snap, Crackle and Pop were all murdered. Police are on the hunt for a cereal killer."

[Mekko Hotvle]

I have some down time this weekend I planned to go see what issues I am missing and hope to go to a couple stores in searching of AF. The nearest store is an hour away from where I live. but with that said, I did find the TPB of The Gift and the Spiderman/AF team up recently.

The most recent issues I read where the 4-part miniseries that had to deal with Her (I actually only read 2 issues of that so far) but that seems to be good so far.

and I read the Amazing X-Men/ AF Wendigo event.

[Tawmis]

I have some down time this weekend I planned to go see what issues I am missing and hope to go to a couple stores in searching of AF. The nearest store is an hour away from where I live. but with that said, I did find the TPB of The Gift and the Spiderman/AF team up recently.

The most recent issues I read where the 4-part miniseries that had to deal with Her (I actually only read 2 issues of that so far) but that seems to be good so far.

and I read the Amazing X-Men/ AF Wendigo event.

Do you live within the US? If so - let me know what issues you're missing. I may be able to find some and send them your way.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Mentioning them means admitting Volune 3 happened...

Mentioning Heather "killing" Snowbird admits that the Mantlo era existed.

[Phil]

Less embarrassing than Vol.3.

[after3]

I actually think thats a good idea. Northstar`s not my favorite character but he`s easily the most mainstream character of the group.

[Le Messor]

The most recent issues I read were the 4-part miniseries that had to deal with Her (I actually only read 2 issues of that so far) but that seems to be good so far.

For the record, when you're looking at your gaps:
You have (or at least have read) volume 1, issues #97-100. That mini-series is just a newsstand version of those issues (which were direct-sales only).

~ Le Messor
"By 2000, politics will simply fade away. We will not see any political parties."
~ R. Buckminster Fuller

[Tawmis]

Mentioning Heather "killing" Snowbird admits that the Mantlo era existed.

He did some stuff that was all right; but the stuff that he did that was bad, was actually REALLY bad. (Like Killing Snowbird...)


Less embarrassing than Vol.3.

Less embarrassing, but no way less painful to read (for the most part).


I actually think thats a good idea. Northstar`s not my favorite character but he`s easily the most mainstream character of the group.

Without a doubt, his exposure on the X-Men has made him very main stream; further enhanced when they full embraced his sexuality and gave him a wedding - that put him on the actual NEWS in the United States.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

For all its problems, 3 isn't my least favourite volume.


...

Edit: Garry, looking at your post above, do you sometimes get that thing where you put up your post and all your carriage returns disappear? (That's actually the reason for this edit.)

~ Le Messor
"Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever."
~ Anonymous



The thing that gets me is when the number "eight" turns into a happy-face for no apparent reason.


Exactly.
If they bring up one thing it'll lead to the other.

Not saying they won't bring the characters back from the dead at some point; comics after all.

Well, thinking about it a bit more, there are lots of characters from Alpha Flight I hope Marvel doesn't mention any time soon.

When Alpha Flight first appeared, the problem was creating a team basically from scratch, out of whole cloth. Now, with soooo much history, mentioning one thing will bring up good memories/bad memories, depending on what iteration/stories of Alpha Flight are liked the best. The Mantlo era is still my least-liked run...and that's saying something because Department H owned Alpha Flight in just about every conceivable way in volume 2.

[Le Messor]

The thing that gets me is when the number "eight" turns into a happy-face for no apparent reason.

That happens when we put a parenthesis after it, like this: 8 ) (space added to prevent that happening). 8) without space.



Well, thinking about it a bit more, there are lots of characters from Alpha Flight I hope Marvel doesn't mention any time soon.

You're not wrong... and yet, I can't help thinking that, handled right, even the bad memory characters could be turned.
I could see me liking stories about even some of my least favourite, if done right. (And I don't mean killed in painful ways.)

~ Le Messor
"By a Carpenter mankind was made, and only by that Carpenter can mankind be remade."
~ Desiderius Erasmus

[Tawmis]

Well, thinking about it a bit more, there are lots of characters from Alpha Flight I hope Marvel doesn't mention any time soon.
When Alpha Flight first appeared, the problem was creating a team basically from scratch, out of whole cloth. Now, with soooo much history, mentioning one thing will bring up good memories/bad memories, depending on what iteration/stories of Alpha Flight are liked the best. The Mantlo era is still my least-liked run...and that's saying something because Department H owned Alpha Flight in just about every conceivable way in volume 2.

Well, that may be the "blessing" of when Alpha Flight was killed off (off panel, no less) by the Collective.

Because when they were brought back after the Chaos War thing, they seemed to be operating simply as Alpha Flight. All the previous baggage could be mentioned, but wouldn't need to be. Nor does it seem like they're tied to Department H. They were simply Canadian Super Heroes, similar to the X-Men (I say X-Men, because the Avengers is frequently tied to the government).

[Mokole]

I never had a problem with Department H or with them being the Administrative arm of AF. Always felt right to me, not an NGO group who came and went. I liked how realistic that was and not like SHIELD, as Stark et al has no need for tax money to run the Avengers and they can be "altruistic" and think they aren't part of the establishment (though it leads to some really, really inane story lines). Having access to Department H and it's resources is good, but maybe it's time to make one of AF the actual head of DEpartment H, and not a bureaucrat. Have Dept H run AF but AF in charge of Dept H, quid pro quo in a new way.

[Le Messor]

I don't mind either way - part of the government, not part of the government. Both make sense in their own fashion, both have advantages and disadvantages.

What I don't like is the 'shocking, change-their-world-forever' storylines once a year where they join the government, quit the government, join the government, quit the government. Lather, rinse, repeat.

~ Le Messor
"Quit, don't quit... Noodles, don't noodles... You are too concerned about what was and what will be. There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."
~ Oogway, Kung Fu Panda

[Tawmis]

My only problem - other than what Le Messor noted (off and on again relationship) - is that Department H felt very "X-Files Government" to me.

I mean, not originally. Originally they were just a government that backed Alpha Flight. But it felt like as writers tried to make use of, or explain, Department H, it just became more and more "The Truth Is Out There" and "We have a billion secrets" and "We must control Alpha Flight."

[Phil]

I liked the government angle, but it dragged on and needed a resolution that never came because of cancellation.
I wouldn't want to revisit it,

[Le Messor]

That creepy-government X-Files angle was very common in the 90s.

[Tawmis]

That creepy-government X-Files angle was very common in the 90s.

Yes it was, probably thanks to X-FILES, actually.

[Mekko Hotvle]

I recently read West Coast Avengers issues (I forget what issue numbers they were but it was a two-part.) Anyway, I got the issues based on the idea that somehow that AF would be doing a guest appearance since it involved AWC and Wolverine in Canada and Russian's were plotting to start a cold war. Well no AF and they made U.S. Agent seem goofy. end of rant.

[Tawmis]

I actually think thats a good idea. Northstar`s not my favorite character but he`s easily the most mainstream character of the group.

He is without a doubt the most popular member of Alpha Flight because of the "X"-posure in X-MEN.

[Mekko Hotvle]

Wouldn't Puck be able to lead AF? Puck is a likable character and I think people would get onboard if it was the Puck and Alpha Flight series. I am not sure how he did leading the Uncanny X-force, so if he did bad leading them, then forget what I said.

[Phil]

Going back to Furman's run, Puck wouldn't want to lead the team.

[Tawmis]

Going back to Furman's run, Puck wouldn't want to lead the team.

But he's been to Hell and back - literally, apparently - since then. That changes a man. :)