The Second Coming (of James Hudson)... [SPOILERS]

[beetleblack]

Okay, here's a question which I hope someone can answer for me.

As I've mentioned elsewhere I've been re-reading AF v.1. and a few days ago I read issue 90 where the newly re-discovered Mac explains how he survived his suit blowing up way back in issue 12 and about warping through time and space and ending up on one of Jupiter's moons with those strange looking aliens millions of years in the past... thing is, it's not really explained why 'Dark Guardian' (Delphine Courtney) disguised as Mac/Guardian would have been able to spin almost an identical tale to Heather and the others when 'he' was trying to explain how he surived. Is this ever explained how they BOTH told the exact same story???? Or is this just one of those things which is never really explained???

:?

[Ben]

simple. Roxxon had Mac, they were able to read his computer's memory of what happnened. Delphine Courtney was part of roxxon, use part of the real tale to explain the fake return.

Ben

[varo]

i hated byrne for this.


i wanted mac back in the worse way, and he pulled this.


i was scared for years.

:shock:

[beetleblack]

Oh right, well I thought that too, but I was kinda hoping for someone to mention that this is what happened somewhere down the line - I suppose they just figured that it was so long since the whole 'Dark Guardian' thing that they didn't need to give an explaination 'on camera' and anyone who wondered how it happened could work it out for themselves.

[cmdrkoenig67]

i hated byrne for this.


i wanted mac back in the worse way, and he pulled this.


i was scared for years.

:shock:

Then John accomplished his goal, right? The story had an emotional impact on you(and others)....I say, good for John! I loved John for doing this...it was brilliant.

Dana

[beetleblack]

A shame that it was ruined by them bringing Mac back. Mac Hudson should have stayed dead, instead he was bought back, killed off again and then bought back yet again! And let's not even mention what happens in volume 2...

Mac should have been famous NOT for continuely coming back from beyond but for being that rare commodity in comic-books - a hero who is dead and actually STAYS dead.

[PWalk]

I agree. Mac should have stayed a corpse.

Byrne was brilliant in killing him off if you ask me. It was as close to a "THUD!" as you can get in comics. People were genuinely upset. Here was the leader of the team getting killed off so early in it's run.

His return story was just so fricking rediculous that I laughed when I read it. Hell I still do... :lol: :lol: :lol: :-({|=

[varo]

not sure what everyones thoughts were on heather leading the team were, but i never liked it, it seemed like she was thrown into the role because they had to fill the suit which was symvbol of canada and the leadership of alpha flight. i nver liked it. plus there was so much story to dig into with mac, he was there when wolverine was just regaining his memory, he was responsible for recruiting all of alpha flight, he knew and was probally involved in all of dept. h's seedy projects.

he should have never been killed.

[beetleblack]

I liked Heather leading the team when she was Heather and not Vindicator. I did feel her transformation into a costumed hero was very forced. Bryne stated that Heather was not going to don the Guardian cosume many times and then he left and the next thing we know Heather's happily putting it on and flying off to save the world. The Heather who was Vindicator was certainly NOT the Heather who was Mac's wife and that's not just because she evolved but because she was shoved into the costume.

I think Heather should have delved more into Mac's murky past, that way he would still have been a continuing spirit in the book but still be dead. We know that he was involved in some lightly shadowy things, but have these things ever been touched on since he came back?

[varo]

i would love to see a run were mac is alive for more than 12 issues.

[beetleblack]

i would love to see a run were mac is alive for more than 12 issues.

Mac ALIVE for MORE than 12 issues??? It'd never happen :wink:

[SwiftFox]

I once asked the original question in this thread too.... and find the answer.... bad. Roxxon held onto Mac for THAT long?

I liked when Byrne did the Delphine Courtney thing.. it was kind of a cool idea to do the FAKE return... but that should have been it.

[varo]

thats till to this day was one of the biggest twists in comics i have ever seen.

and roxxon was one p'd off dude, he probally would have held on to him as long as he could.

[Adam]

i would love to see a run were mac is alive for more than 12 issues.

I agree. I love Byrne's run but I wish there were more Mac stories out there in which he wasn't a robot or "age degenerated" or an unfeeling cyborg or being retconned into a mad scientist etc. For all the shock of his death, he always felt a little underdeveloped as a character to me. Since he's back and assumedly "the real" Mac, I'm really looking forward to his appearance in the next issue.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I love Heather as leader....I disagree with the thought that she didn't have to don the suit, though. In my opinion....it was inevitable and very logical(even if JB didn't think so). Mantlo having her realize that she couldn't be an effective leader in the field without power to enable her to fight along side AF AND not be a potential hostage, was a great move.

When asked if Heather would put on the suit and lead the team, in one of the letter collumns of AF...I seem to recall John saying that he couldn't comprehend drawing the costume on her...saying it wouldn't work(I think it looks fine on her....he's even drawn headshots of her in costume twice).
If that's his only reason for not wanting her to be in costume(I doubt that's it, though), it's kind of silly.

I still miss her as leader.... :(

BTW...I also think Mac should not have been resurrected...killed, resurrected, killed, resurrected...he's become a joke. He should have stayed dead.

Dana

[kozzi24]

I also think Heather's donning the costume was inevitable, and Byrne probably begged off the idea to avoid spoliers. Heather toook the leadership role, and was hurt in battle almost immediately with the Plodex. I started reading Alpha when a cane-reliant Heather was leading the team, and it was a very distinctive take on a super-team. Then in AF #24, Heather stood bored while the others fought the Great Beasts. I think even if JB had stayed on the book, we would have seen Heather in the suit. Byrne did design the sunglasses Heather wore that added so much to Heather's suit. I'm inclined to believe that Mantlo picked up directly on that thread from Byrne, with Jeffries and Box reconstructing the suit fron Courtney's remains.

[Ben]

And Byrne did also plant the idea in our heads in...issue....ummm, 17 I think without having my comics on hand. The one where heather is holding Jimmy's old suit up to herself in the mirror.

Ben

[DelBubs]

And Byrne did also plant the idea in our heads in...issue....ummm, 17 I think without having my comics on hand. The one where heather is holding Jimmy's old suit up to herself in the mirror.

Ben
It was #18, #17 had the image of the fight from UXM #109 on the cover (?).

All that comics stuff above is a smokescreen, to try and disguise the fact, that I never really took that image of Heather holding up the suit as a prelude of things to come, but just her giving a memory form. Oh and I never really got the Northstar being gay for a long time. Thats why I read spoilers, so I know what the hell is actually happening.

[Ben]

the Northstar bits have been split to: http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=326

[cmdrkoenig67]

The non-powered female leader bit was being done at the same time or just before over in the New Defenders book....and it didn't work there either. It's illogical(and even REALLY, REALLY stupid) to have a leader that has no powers, special abilities, skills, weapons, etc...

Hawkeye or Captain America don't have powers(Batman too), but they have what it takes to stand beside their superpowered teammates....Heather(and Candy Southern, for that matter) does not....period.

Such a non-powered leader would instantly become a target(for either killing or as a potential hostage)by their opponents, in any battle. To say that Heather didn't need the suit or some other training, empowerment or whatever to be an effective leader, because she was a spitfire who could claw your eyes out(i.e. her "fight" with Delphine Courtney) or kick you in the groin....is just a bit silly.

Dana

[bigbloo]

I'd have to agree with Dana, the only way i believe a non-superpowered leader would be effective would if the said leader was not in the field of battle, and running things by remote / commlink. Like Charles Xavier, for example...

[kozzi24]

Not having it is a very good reason Candy Southern is dead.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Not having it is a very good reason Candy Southern is dead.

Indeed, Kozzi...good point.

Dana

[kozzi24]

Although she died well after Defenders, in X-Factor, I think.