Zed Flight, My Arse!!

[DelBubs]

Really, we all know (from 'Beneath The Planet Of The Apes') that Alpha is the beginning and Omega the end. So far we've had an 'Alpha Flight', a Beta, Epsilon, Gamma and Omega Flights. Does anyone know enough of the greek alphabet to figure out how many more Flights there could be. :shock:

[Ben]

:lol: har har, I think that was scott just coining a phrase, or making a play on words. Just as I really doubt that "Uncanny Alpha Flight" will actuall go by that name if it gets printed.

[DelBubs]

I know, I was just being pedanatic, as is my want. :-) That said however
Alpha, Beta, whats next in the greek alphabet, I believe it's Ceti, or somthing bizare like that.

Oh well, of to work :-(

[Ben]

I figured as much, but it was still a good point of conversation ;)

Delta is next BTW

Ben

[HappyCanuck]

assuming we limit ourselves to the Greek phoenetic alphabet, the most we could have is 24 flights

[Ben]

WOHOO! bring 'em on! Funny that they skipped Delta, right on to E-psilon

[HappyCanuck]

Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta, Eta, Theta, Iota, Kappa, Lamda, Mu, Nu, Xi, Omicron, Pi, Rho, Sigma, Tau, Upsilon, Phi, Chi, Psi, Omega

This is a list of the entire Greek Phoenetic Alphabet

[Nalyd Psycho]

Upsilon Flight is an absolute must.

[Ben]

I like the sound of Iota Flight, that would be a good one for Alpha Flight Jr.

[HappyCanuck]

:twisted: What, no 'Mu Flight'?? :twisted:

( :shock: trying to erase the mental images of flying cows from his head...)

[Nalyd Psycho]

That would fit the tone of the book.

[PWalk]

Well if they wanted to sell more books I'd think they'd have to go with
Xi Flight.

[beetleblack]

Kappa Flight sounds like some awful sorority/fraternity!

[Richv1]

I think if they had another version of Alpha Flight with new members for the whole team it should be based on Canadian super-heroes that already exist or on ones from Canadian mythology. Captain Canuck would make a great leader, Fleur De Lys, Captain Canada, Mademoiselle, Northguard, Canada Jack and Capitaine Kebec could make up the team. All these heroes could make a come back.

[HappyCanuck]

I think if they had another version of Alpha Flight with new members for the whole team it should be based on Canadian super-heroes that already exist or on ones from Canadian mythology. Captain Canuck would make a great leader, Fleur De Lys, Captain Canada, Mademoiselle, Northguard, Canada Jack and Capitaine Kebec could make up the team. All these heroes could make a come back.

The only problem with that line up is, tho, it's chalk-full of Captain America wannabes (by that I mean iconographic characters meant to humanise an ideology, like Cap is to 'truth, love, and apple pie'), and frankly would turn ppl off if they consisted purely of icons.

Plus, having three 'captains' would be just ... wrong. If, however, they all appeared in different titles and spin-offs, that would work.

[Richv1]

Well its hard to come up with enough Canadian super-heroes to form a team. Outside of Alpha Flight members there are not a whole lot around. Not when you compare say to American super-heroes that seem to be everywhere.

[syvalois]

Well, it could be fun to see Captain Kébec with Captain Canuck, considering how captain Kébec looks like:)

[Richv1]

So how about some new heroes based on Canadian myths. Ogopogo, well we have Sasquatch for the Big Foot myth, Nopi the trickster from the Blackfoots, Sedna from the Ekimos who could control the sea and its creatures. Maybe they could be used as a bases to create new heroes.

[maniac mike]

I think "Weapon P.R.I.M.E." should change their name to "Delta Flight" and any reject heroes from Canada could call themselves "Lamda Lamda Lamda Flight" :lol:

[Richv1]

So what are the chances of Alpha Flight ever getting as many spinoffs as the X-Men? About as much as America Beer being real Beer when compared to Canadian Beer.

[Ben]

well, if Lobell has his way.... :)

[bigbloo]

Well, AF certainly has had enough characters for at least 5 or 6 teams, remember when the Flight had what was it? 19 members???

Personally I like the sound of Omicron Flight

[Richv1]

I remember when Wire was there I don't think he ever officially joined the team but I liked his character. His power was different and he was a tough guy.

[Phil]

I like this man already :D

[Richv1]

I' like to see this Alpha Flight have several comic series. With them all trying in with one another. The original main group staying as the main team in one comic. Than having several with spin off groups that interact with the original and operate out of the same place. With members of each team occassionally crossing over and helping out te other teams when they are needed. The one team being made up of :
Sasquatch
Guardian
Vindicator
Earthmover
Puck
Snowbird
Shaman

Than use other members like the new ones that just joined plus Wire, Purple Girl, Wild Child(bring him back as Weapon Omega), Box with Madison Jefferies in the suit. Aurora and Northstar on the same team. I'd love to see somehow Marrina return. Give them some good villians like bringing back the Master and also Scramble. Have them face off against some well known major villians as well. And we could have some series to revival the X-titles.

[Weapon Omega]

I think "Theta Flight" has a nice ring to it. But I agree, Alpha should get more exposure book wise. Not necessarily another monthly, but every so often have a mini-series or two featuring other characters and teams. Alpha has such a great array of characters it's a shame most are hanging around in "Marvel Limbo"!!!

[Richv1]

They are in Marvel Limbo isn't that the dimension ruled by Magic? lol
A few limited series would be nice. I'd love to see Puck all on his own. Maybe show how he first captured that demon that made him a dwarf. Or show how he got rid of it. Some adventures of Husband and wife Guardian and Vindicator might be good.

[HappyCanuck]

Near as I can tell from what everyone's saying, what we need is an 'Alpha Flight Unlimited', using the current format that X-Men Unlimited is using. Basically, a book that uses snapshot stories to delve out old, underused or unused characters, giving them more life. Maybe this is a spin-off title that Lobdell should consider instead of the aformentioned (and joked about) 'Zed Flight'.

[Phil]

I say forget X-Men Unlimited, forget Spider-man Unlimited, forget countless low selling mini's, forget 'ongoing' series that get cancelled after 6 issues, just bring back a Marvel Comics Presents format type book, that doesn't matter if it gets lower sales.

[Ben]

Dude, that's one heck of a good idea! It's the type of book that they could forget about getting really high sales, make it good quality, and have it appeal to different people all the time. It would help to keep fans loyal, and interested. Also would be a great way to tie up all the years of loose ends with all the bazzilion characters out there.

[Phil]

Exactly.

And an ideal way to get new talent in.

The Wildchild/Puck/Northstar tales from MCP may not have been great, but added a little bit to the AF mythos, and were fun, easy, quick reads.

[HappyCanuck]

That's all fine and dandy.... now how do we propose this to Marvel? God knows they have a difficult time listening to fans when it comes to either creating new books or revamping old ones...

[Phil]

Heh, I don't expect it to happen, I'm just suprised it hasn't.

[Richv1]

Tying up loose ends come on were talking about Marvel Comics here. I wonder what ever happened to Woodgod? The Canadian government was experimenting on him last I saw. I liked him and was hoping to see him in Alpha Flight.
I wonder what ever happene to Windshear and Ghost Girl?

[DelBubs]

I wonder what ever happene to Windshear and Ghost Girl?

Windshear was seen in #43 of Thunderbolts, he was running an art type shop where he sold sculptures made using Hard Air. (Don't ask me, hard air sculptures are beyond my bizarre logic :-(

[Richv1]

Ok so where is Ghost Girl?
Maybe Windshear could make a come back. Add in Wyre, Persauson. A few more and you have a team.

[DelBubs]

Not really sure about Ghost Girl after the demise of vol 2, but most probably back at Hull House with Ouija, Flinch and Flex. Only Flex is worthy of being bought back IMO :-)

[beetleblack]

I quite liked Ghost Girl - from the little we saw of her. I liked her name, it was very Legion of Super-Heroes! I also thought her relationship with Flex was cute.

Windshear never really reached his potential, was never really sure what the point of him was - which is a shame because on the rare occasions (I think twice) we learnt anything about his background it seemed kind of interesting. To be honest the character was so insignificant that a lot of the time I forgot he was even a member! (So has he retired from the Super-Hero business then?)

I'd like to see Talisman return in some capacity, I think she had a lot of potential, but after the whole Llan saga she wasn't really used properly.

[DelBubs]

To be honest, I really didn't like any of the new characters introduced in Vol 2, Flex being the best of a bad bunch. I won't even talk of pseudo-Northstar-angst-ridden Radius =;

I think we can safely assume that Windshear has gone from the super hero fraternity, but he didn't really bring a lot to the team, but was a pretty good character.

I'd like to see Talisman return in some way, maybe not playing the hero, but as Shamans daughter. With Shaman and his heir 'Earthmover', AF don't really need another mystical type.

[beetleblack]

Maybe she could come back as a tutor for Beta Flight? Or do you think we might be getting a little ahead of ourselves now...

I think we've probably seen the last of Ghost Girl and all the others. It kind of sad in a way, I wonder what AF would have been like today if the second series had been allowed to continue? At the end of the day it wasn't really as bad as it could have been.

Oh and do you think we've seen the last of Manbot??? :lol:

[Richv1]

manbot that has to be the worst character they have come up with. He was so slow. The fight was always almost over by the time he reacted. I saw no reason for him even being there.

[syvalois]

I always forgot Manbot, I never care for him.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I think people are waaaaaaay too harsh on the second series. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thoroughly. I wish it hadn't ended, because I loved all the veterans in it and all the rookies.

[syvalois]

I started liking vol2 when Rouleau came on bord. Seagle seems to have better stories and even if Rouleau art was strange, it was powerful.

[DelBubs]

I always forgot Manbot, I never care for him.

Manbot always reminded me of Robocop Two, that drug addict who had his En-grams overprinted onto a robotic body. I don't think there was anything organic about Manbot, just brainwaves on a chip in a body(a box body to boot).

[Ben]

I tottally agree Sylvie. Like you said, Rouleau had a very different style, and on first glance I really didn't like it. However after one issue of his art, I was hooked on it. He REALLY knew how to use his art to tell the story. I'd rather have that than an artist with perfect looking figures, all standing around in the exact same position all the time :) But I'm definately not a v.2 knocker, I liked it, and was looking forward to the direction it was taking. Marvel did a very poor job of promoting it, and I think Seagle streached the conspiracy theory on a little too long. He should have ditched the micronaughts story in favour of wraping up the evil department H in #12.

It's the same thing that I like about Clayton's art. He's wonderfully expressive with his art, even if it is a little more cartoonie than I usually go for. I think it's great now, and Scott says it gets even better!

Ben

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I started liking vol2 when Rouleau came on bord. Seagle seems to have better stories and even if Rouleau art was strange, it was powerful.

Exactly how I felt, Sylvie. Rouleau did an excellent stint on X-Factor, and I think his style clicked with Alpha Flight even more. It made the story that much more compelling. And Seagle tells a GREAT story. I was totally hooked on the conspiracy angle, which is already a difficult sell because not many people are going to look at a Canadian government being so suppressive and manipulative and downright evil for evil's sake very seriously. But I loved every minute of it. And I honestly wouldn't mind in the least if Radius, Murmur, Flex, Ghost Girl, and Manbot all joined the new Alpha Flight. Just imagine the fireworks. You know Yukon Jack and Radius would probably beat the crap out of each other. Murmur would probably try to get it on with Major Mapleleaf (in which case, I'd have to kill her). And I'd just DIE if Centennial started referring to Manbot as "that there do-hickey"! :lol:

[jay042]

A return of Marvel Comic Presents is an excellent idea. Though I think maybe what Marvel should do is develop an actual anthology magazine like Heavy Metal. Put four or five stories in it, most of them being
multi-parters that they can repackage after the fact as trades and see about getting this into the magazine distribution networks.

[DelBubs]

Years back, Marvel gave us the Epic line, whic was stories outside the MU, they were suppose to be donig the same thing this year, individual stories from up and coming writers, Marvel pulled the plug before the new epic line even saw print. Joey the Q was a bit pussy on this.

[Syd]

After the dissapointment of series 2 (Though I bought it and read it anyway) I'm just thankful we are getting a NEW series at all at this stage. I am very excited about the prospect of an Uncanny Alpha Flight which would basically be the original Alpha team of old from series one and letting the ANAD book do it's own thing with mutual cross overs into eachother... lets have DOUBLE the Alpha Flight if we can!

Already I prefer the Art work in series 3 to the second series... thankgod we have returned to art sanity! I just want ANAD to last beyond the 18 issues of series 2 and to see some kind of Uncanny AF! 8)

[Ben]

here's hoping Scott let's us know when he gets word back from Marvel! I'm anxious to know what they have to say!

[DelBubs]

Pedantic Del, says that vol 2 lasted 20 issues (20 issues too many in my opinion :lol: )

Henry's art, totally compliments the light hearted AF we have at present. Rouleau never did it for me.

[Syd]

Quite right Del ... pedantic Syd recalls he gave up at issue 18 ... ;)

[DelBubs]

Quite right Del ... pedantic Syd recalls he gave up at issue 18 ... ;)

Couldn't you cope for two more issues ? The last two issues are probably the best of Volume 2, putting Weapon X (XV11) or whatever version aside, the last two issues have the proper team. :P

[Syd]

Availability Del ... I found out about AF Series 2 posthumously and had to dig around comic store sale bins to get 14 issues of AF 2 I have now... I exhausted every place in my country before it became clear that I wouldn't find the other issues... so the story for me ended at 18...hence my comments. ;)

I'll try and order them from some online comic store eventually... it was getting quite good towards the end, I agree. :(

[DelBubs]

I should have read your bio (Australia obviously has taste :-) ), honestly, IMO vol 2 was not all I would have liked, the stories of Alpha after vol 2 finished are a lot better than anything we saw there. Having read vol 2 sequentially, it was a huge disapointment and vol 3 (IMHO) is ten times better.

[Syd]

It might be that I'm the only one in OZ that has taste as from 1983 when I picked up issue 1 to this day, I have yet to meet another soul in OZ that ever knew of, or collected Alpha Flight! I'm sure they are out there but I feel amazed just talking to other people from other countries about AF let alone within my own milieu. :?

I agree about Series 2... it was the art work that really bothered me. There seemed to be no interest in maintaining any sense of continuity with the first series at all. I mean Sasquatch had those idiotic upside down sabre toothed tiger fangs and 19 year old Mac looked more like a member of something run by The Master than a defender of all thats good...he looked evil basically. Why would a team allow a 19 year old to lead it also? So many times in Alpha Flight we have read stories where discussions ensue about who has the maturity and balance for the leadership role ... then they make an evil 19 year old the leader? HUH?

Then there was Manbot! This was the worst insult to the memory of BOX ever created in the Marvel universe. Who thought that one up and allowed it past the breakfast table? :roll: And on...and on...and on... Puck didn't look right... and then they gave us Radius and Flex who I couldn't wait for them to kill off and Heather didn't look right either. There were so many chiselled angles on the characters faces that they looked more like Picasso rejects than Alpha Flight! :lol:

As I said ... thankgod for the return to ART sanity in the new series. I really like the way the new book is shaping up. :)

[DelBubs]

It might be that I'm the only one in OZ that has taste as from 1983 when I picked up issue 1 to this day, I have yet to meet another soul in OZ that ever knew of, or collected Alpha Flight! I'm sure they are out there but I feel amazed just talking to other people from other countries about AF let alone within my own milieu. :?

Within Oz, there are two at least that I'm aware off, Sengsterooney, who ran the original Net Alpha, and Mik Bennet who writes a pucker fanfic, oh and I had the joy of meeting him a few years back.l


I agree about Series 2... it was the art work that really bothered me. There seemed to be no interest in maintaining any sense of continuity with the first series at all. I mean Sasquatch had those idiotic upside down sabre toothed tiger fangs and 19 year old Mac looked more like a member of something run by The Master than a defender of all thats good...he looked evil basically. Why would a team allow a 19 year old to lead it also? So many times in Alpha Flight we have read stories where discussions ensue about who has the maturity and balance for the leadership role ... then they make an evil 19 year old the leader? HUH?
That Alpha was never the Alpha that Mac envisaged, it was just a government tool and pseudo 'Prometheus Mac' yet another one.

Here's a little story, Scott Clarke, who did the art on the first five issues, originally proposed AF vol 2 to Marvel, his proposal was accepted, Seagle came on board and eventually Clarke was ****ed of and Seagle took over everything. Brian Hitch didn't even remember drawing #6 :-)


Then there was Manbot! This was the worst insult to the memory of BOX ever created in the Marvel universe. Who thought that one up and allowed it past the breakfast table? :roll: And on...and on...and on... Puck didn't look right... and then they gave us Radius and Flex who I couldn't wait for them to kill off and Heather didn't look right either. There were so many chiselled angles on the characters faces that they looked more like Picasso rejects than Alpha Flight! :lol: ?

I don't mind Flex, best of a bad bunch, but Manbot :-(, maybe a nice presursor to the Box guards we see in Weapon X, but a complete waste of panel space otherwise.


As I said ... thankgod for the return to ART sanity in the new series. I really like the way the new book is shaping up. :)

I see AF vol 3 as Exorcist 3 (as in vol 2 never happened) :-)

[Syd]

Within Oz, there are two at least that I'm aware off, Sengsterooney, who ran the original Net Alpha, and Mik Bennet who writes a pucker fanfic, oh and I had the joy of meeting him a few years back.l

Oooohhh other Aussies eh? Where are these guys now by the way, it would be great to get in touch with them. :)

[DelBubs]

Seng is a member here, but posts infrequently ( I believe he lives in Perth) Mik posts to the Awaves yahoo group, but I haven't seen him here, I believe he's in the same city as your good self.

[Syd]

Ah thanks for that, hopefully we'll bump spandex at some point in the near future.

[Richv1]

Maybe if Madison got a chance to totally redesign and update Manbot he might be an ok character. But not as he was. I liked the Box robot better.

[HappyCanuck]

Seng is a member here, but posts infrequently ( I believe he lives in Perth) Mik posts to the Awaves yahoo group, but I haven't seen him here, I believe he's in the same city as your good self.

Seng IS in Perth, but Mik is in Canberra (last I heard). He and I have had a lengthy e-relation (purely platonic) going on for about 3 years now.

[Richv1]

It looks as if Alpha Flight has supporters from all over the world.

[Ben]

yes, for sure it does! I've seen hits to AF.net from an amazing varriety of countries.

[HappyCanuck]

yes, for sure it does! I've seen hits to AF.net from an amazing varriety of countries.

Heck, surprisingly enough, since I inserted the new hit counter, Alpha Flight Redux has seen 5 countries so far, and i only installed it on Monday!!

[Syd]

Well I have an indirect connection to Canada...apart from having been to B.C several times and spent allot of time around Vancouver, Whistler, Banff, Lake Louise, Alberta etc ... my step mother is a Canuck from Vancouver soooo...;) We made her an honourary Aussie so I guess that makes us Honourary Canucks. :lol:

[Richv1]

That is the one thing I don't like about Snowbird she cannot leave Canada for long or her powers fade. She gets weak. Shaman should come up with something to fix that.

[DelBubs]

I don't think the new Snowbird has the same limitations. The first Snowbird was tied to Canada by Shamans too concise mystical binding spell. Being a clone, the new SB, theoretically, shouldn't be bound.

[Richv1]

When was it revealed she is a clone? I hate clones. Kill her off and bring back the original. What is wrong with Marvel are they back to creating clones of everyone again? Snowbird, the Hulk and of course everyone remembers Spider-Man and the mess that was.

[Ben]

Well, if she is considered to be a "clone" it would be her body only. Like someone said earlier, the Norther Gods have taken credit for her orchestrating her return, so they would have infused her actual spirit into the body, regardless of how it was created..

that wold be like saying that Walter isn't Walter, because his body isn't really his orginal, though it is identical to it.

Ben

[Richv1]

Ok with her own spirit and mind in it it would be different. If that part is not cloned to than it would be sort of ok.

[DelBubs]

When was it revealed she is a clone? I hate clones. Kill her off and bring back the original. What is wrong with Marvel are they back to creating clones of everyone again? Snowbird, the Hulk and of course everyone remembers Spider-Man and the mess that was.

A.I.M had created a new Snowbird (Wolverine #142-143) by Erik Larsen, no less. We nattered about it in the 'Snowbird Resurection' thread, either in this forum or Alpha News (?)

[Ben]

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=188

[Richv1]

I have those Wolverine issues. I guess I just forgot or didn't understand it. I read to many comics to remember them all except when I am reading them.