Snowbird's Resurrection

[Ben]

By you all probably gathered by now, my knowledge in post-volume 2 Alpha Flight appearances is somewhat limited. I'm wondering, and hoping that in recent appearances, since the resurrection of Snowbird in Wolverine 143, has any writer taken the initiative to correct the HUGE holes explaining her rebirth?

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about:

-Snowbird died
-Walter Langkowski's spirit inhabited her dead body becoming Wanda Langkowski.
-Snowbird's spirit descended from the heavens transforming Wanda's body into that of a man, an exact copy of his old (now dust) body.
-Alpha Flight finds Snowbird in an AIM lab
- Walter explains that her divine nature has cause her remains to generate in a form of a hyper-healing factor...

see any problems there? Oh yah! There are no remains, because Walter is wearing them!...*sigh*

I really hope someone has found an explanation that fits history a little better. If not....PLEASE SCOTT, FIX IT!!!

Ben

[suzene]

No, I don't think anyone's willing to even get in the same zip code with that plotline.

Suzene

[Phil]

Frank Tieri added some detail to it in Wolverine #172 with "Surely the Northern Gods did not orchestrate Snowbird's resurrection only to have her fall to the likes of you!" (against the Mauvais Wendigo)

[Ben]

Thanks Phil, I guess it's enough to instill a grain of hope :)

[DelBubs]

I work on the principal that A.I.M managed to aquire some of Snowbirds DNA, cloned and then fastgrew the resulting cell cluster. Now as Walt is wearing Snowbirds original body, I can only hazard that A.I.M may have some of her childs genetic material, this would only work if we believe the child to have super powers of some type. Given that the Gods where willing to accept the babies soul, but not Dougs due to his being mortal, this would suggest that the babe was like his mother, more godlike than mortal.

Anyways, the gods saw Snowbirds cloned body at A.I.M and infused it with her soul, before the clones mind could be used and manipulated by them.

All of the above is pure supposition, but who gives a monkeys, it sounds a tad better than Larsens take on the subject, which IMHO, has more holes than a minging pair of boxers being used as the main course at a moth banquet.

[Richv1]

So like all clone stories it is a mess.

[jay042]

Yep, Birdy's presence goes against a lot of established history.

My best guess for explaining her cloning is that they took DNA from Walt.

I wouldn't be suprised that on a genetic level Walt more of Narya than we know. I could see Dept H in it's conspiratorial mode taking some cell samples of Walt and seeing if they could find the goddess in the genome.

Maybe an AIM mole in H took the research and bolted ( or Dr. Huxley perhaps?) and that explains why Alpha was investigating their actions anyway. H knew that AIM had taken some research, but withing the labrynthine layers of secrecy they couldn't figure out just what was stolen.

Narya, far off in the realm of the North Gods, sensed the cloned body and moved to take it over.

[Richv1]

Narya I hope even in a cloned body her spirit will not have changed. I want to see the quick woman that can change into a wild animal and rip you apart if necessary.
Does everyone else remember the great drawings of her in white bear form fighting a white great beast in a snow storm? A cheap way to make a comic with white pages of art but it was really done well.

[Ben]

Yes, that issue was brilliant! :) If I remember correctly it was done as Asisstant Editor month or some such thing...

[DelBubs]

Yes, that issue was brilliant! :) If I remember correctly it was done as Asisstant Editor month or some such thing...
Yup, that was the month when Hembeck did a Spidey issue, every title had a strange feel to it. Snowbird against Kolomaq was the first AF issue I saw on the just in shelf, I started picking up AF our months later.

[Richv1]

Yes that issue is probably my favorite one. I thought it was a brilliant idea. You always hear about a polar bear in a snow storm and someone drawing it so they did.

[kozzi24]

As much as I liked Snowbird, I still think the resurrection was a bad idea. The root of the problem is the disdain Mantlo exhibited about the original team. It seems he killed Snowbird and used her body elsewhere to make sure she could never return.
I am with the AIM clone theory, as it is the only was to make sense of the new personality as well.

[Richv1]

New personality? Do you mean in the latest series? Issues 1 and 2 haven't shown her with a new personality. # 3 isn't out here yet.

[DelBubs]

I could be wrong on this, but as far as I know, since Larsen did his thing, no one has really written Snowbird in depth. Most of her appearences have been an "in the background" kind of way. So far she hasn't done much in vol #3 but hang around and be captive, so I'm not sure where this new personality concept is coming from.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

The only sign of Narya having a new personality has been her recent appearance in X-Men Unlimited, under Chuck Austen's pen, where Mac and Heather saw the birth of their daughter. And her personality was different. She was a LOT more compassionate, and she used the phrase "Oh, God" twice... something Narya would never do.

However, this isn't a new personality. This is a crappy writer not doing the proper research (as per always, in Austen's case), and writing female characters inappropriately as he is wont to do.

Oh, and a question... why would Narya move to take over a clone body? What purpose would that serve?

[Phil]

Oh, and a question... why would Narya move to take over a clone body? What purpose would that serve? [/color]

The idea was that the Northern Gods orchestrated the cloning, so as to create a body capable of housing their figurehead to Earth, to help defend Canada from mythical beings.

[Richv1]

If Narya is part goddess why didn't she just create or have created another body for herself? Or did she is that why that clone was made maybe she or other gods she knew had something to do with it?

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I wondered the exact same thing... if she could take a clone body over, and if she's a goddess and working in conjunction with other gods and goddesses, why not just make a body from scratch?

[Ben]

Well, the gods couldn't do this in the first place, partially I would say because the need to have a mortal aspect in thier avatar on earth, and partly because she had to be bound to the earth, to be able to properly defend it against the beasts. Her being "reborn" I suppose would make for a good chance to use the Great Beasts again.

Ben

[jay042]

Yeah, Snowbird's return just wasn't well planned. That's the problem when the story is in the hands of the writer of another book. If they really wanted to bring back Snowbird, I always thought turning Walt back into a woman and having him/her giving birth to Narya's next incarnation would have been the sensible (if very freaky) way to go about it.

[kozzi24]

The new personality I saw was this younger, hipper girl. The "oh God" line was one of the things that was not Snowbird. I'm lukewarm on both Larson (an ultimate fanboy who made it) and Austen, some of whose work I really enjoyed, some I have hated and most have been "whay or why?"
Narya was solidly dead, thank you Mr. Mantlo.
She should have stayed dead. Jay042 is absolutely right, that stories done through other books seldom work. Nayra's resurrection didn't work, and it's beyond comprehension that Walter would have run the tests to determine that the victim rescued from AIM was Snowbird without questioning, at least to himself, where his body came from. Except for the lack of a name, Heather's baby came out all right, spread across Black Panther and the X-books.
But instead of blaming crappy writers, we have to deal with what we have and give them the shadow of the doubt that they knew what they were doing, that mistakes are really hints.
Here's the obvious solution.

SCOTT LOBDELL: I WANT CO-PLOTTER CREDITS FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!

The personality of this Snowbird is younger and hipper to make the character more appealing to new readers, who could relate to a young and hip gal in cloak and boots better than to the old Snowbird.
Marvel would not have intentionally plotted a clone story, so that can be ruled out.
Walter's body, though transformed, is Snowbird's body. There's no way around that. Even when ripping out his heart, Nayra lamented that Walter was one of her closest friends. Not surprising, seeing she didn't have any outside the Flight. Walter's original body crumbled to dust, and if Snowbird could have restored it, she would have done so then. The new Snowbird is not the same body as the one Walter now inhabits, and Snowbird's fix of it is not too much of a stretch as Walter's powers and those of Snowbird were both metamorphic.
Yet this body tested, to an UNSPECIFIED degree, positive for Nayra's DNA.

The idea was that the Northern Gods orchestrated >>>the cloning,<<< so as to create a body capable of housing their figurehead to Earth, to help defend Canada from mythical beings.
Frank Tieri (did I spell that right?) established that the Northern Gods, Nayra's family, orchestrated Snowbird's return.
Motivation for Nayra to take over a clone body and return to earth is nonexistent. She fought way too hard to have her peace with Doug Thompson to give it up.
Snowbird aged to adulthood in about 5 years.
Accelerated healing brought life back to the corpse.

The solution is simple.
This Snowbird is not Nayra, and not a clone.
When Walter ever gets around to running more DNA tests, or when the two remaining graves outside the old HQ are exhumed, it will be clear that the Snowbird we now have is not Nayra, but is the baby of Nayra and Doug, grown to near adulthood in an elapsed four years.
The gender can be explained in one of two ways.
The bovious is that the child was born female, but the immediate takeover by Pestilence either forced the assumption that the child was male (and in the battle that started immediately after the birth and picking up the body immediately after his death, no one really checked. The second, more fitting the tone of volume 3, is that in order to restore Walter from Wanda, Snowbird had to get the parts from somewhere.

[bigbloo]

I wondered the exact same thing... if she could take a clone body over, and if she's a goddess and working in conjunction with other gods and goddesses, why not just make a body from scratch?

The Northern Gods were sealed from the Earthly plane by the Great Beasts. Now, the only way they can manifest their powers on Earth is by influencing Human beings or through their avatar (Snowbird).

I guess now that Snowbird, Doug and their son are "with the Gods" then they are sealed off from the earth too...

[Richv1]

But since this is comics were talking about anything can and does happen. Wolverine might even come back and lead Aphla Flight, NOT.

[kozzi24]

But since this is comics were talking about anything can and does happen. Wolverine might even come back and lead Aphla Flight, NOT.
Didn't Byrne at one time state plans (or at least a desire) to hook up Wolverine and Snowbird romantically?

[Richv1]

Well it looks like Wolverine and the Native might hook up romanticly or at least sexually. Snowbird I liked with her mountie friend. The new version I doubt will hook up with Wolverine but maybe she'll find love with one of the new team members. Who should she get together with?

[DelBubs]

If Snowbird gets with anyone it really should be MMjr, they have that R.C.M.P connection. Although I think she's way too much woman for him, with his niavety.

[Richv1]

A Goddess and a straight laced guy. Maybe she could loosen him up. I bet she can be quite hot blooded when it comes to playing.

[DelBubs]

I'm having images of Snowbird, in the throes of passion going through her complete range of animals and Doug being charged with beastiality :-) :lol: :oops:

[Richv1]

Now that I do not want to see graphically shown in a comic book. :oops:
Having an owl, bear or a great beast in bed no thanks. But Snowbird well thats different.

[kozzi24]

What if she turned into a swarm of mosquitos during the act?

[Richv1]

But would she turn into a whole swarm or just one? Mosquitos do suck so, hmmmm.

[bigbloo]

:lol: She turns into a whole swarm of mosquitoes.

She did that trick already in AF vol 1 #2 (or was it #3?) when they were saving Marrina from being torn apart by the Master's machines. She also showed her super strength by crushing a metal restraint like it was made of plastic. =D> One of my favorite sequences of Snowbird using her powers.

[kozzi24]

Don't forget her post cognitive powers.
Not only could she show Doug a good time, but she could take amatuer movies after he was gone!

[Richv1]

I think you guys have to much time on your hands. lol
Do you think about Supergirl floating as she does it? Maybe Puck using her agility? Elastic Girl and her growing and shrinking powers? Firestar and her heating things up?

[HappyCanuck]

I think you guys have to much time on your hands. lol
Do you think about Supergirl floating as she does it? Maybe Puck using her agility? Elastic Girl and her growing and shrinking powers? Firestar and her heating things up?

:shock: .... I am NOW!!

[Richv1]

What about She-Hulk changing back and forth? Wonder Woman and her stamina? Black Canary has some strong lungs for blowing. I wonder if they would think about using there powers if we had a more mature comic about them? And for the females Mr. Fantastic?

[kozzi24]

On the first of your two new posts, I had praised you for not mentioning the obvious cliche:

And for the females Mr. Fantastic?
Are you new to comics? EVERYONE'S thought of that!
Exploring sexual progression of powers within Alpha: It's why Northstar would never be happy with a single steady (and why Aurora never has been) because they get bored easy and are recharged and ready too fast.
Shaman's pouch is a never-ending bag of toys, and Talisman, she's just magickal in the sack, and on it! Persuasions's not as much fun because it's only what she wants to do.
I have personally wondered about the Jeffries' married sex life, because if all her skin is diaman hard and can't be penetrated....

[kozzi24]

And I don't know if I like pressing a "submit" button after thinking about sex with super-powered people.

[Ben]

*ahem* This thread is walking that fine PG line ;) Though we are all adults, there are young readers, and we want to welcome them too :)

Cheers,

Ben

[kozzi24]

Sorry kiddies.

Don't take candy from people wearing tiara and sitting in a van.

[Richv1]

So how about getting back to Snowbird's resurrection. If AIM created her cloned body might at some time in the future could they reveal some hidden control mechanise in it? Could they use Snowbird to attack Alpha from within?

[kozzi24]

I'm sticking to my theory that this Snowbird is the child of Narya, not Narya herself.

[Richv1]

But isn't the body a cloned one? Couldn't AIM have put in a control mechanism? Whether its the daughter or not.

[kozzi24]

Can't be both the daughter and a clone.
Clone's a dirty word with Marvel, and we don't need another one. I think it was determined the body was a clone for lack of any other explanation.
It wasn't said outright when this new Snowbird was found, but the body CANNOT be the original, because Walt is the original Snowbird body, magically transmuted by the dead demigoddess Narya.
They did test for Snowbird's DNA to determine that it must be the real deal, or a clone. My contention is they did the DNA test until it was apparent that the clone shared the same DNA. Simply testing for DOUG's DNA would easily establish that this is their child, which could be attributed as male during its brief life because it was partly metamorphic by nature of Snowbird's powers, and possessed by Pestilence.
This would explain Larson's error in bringing her back in a way that avoids the whole clone cliche.
But, yes, there could be a trigger mechanism no matter what explanation because AIM had motive and opportunity.

[jay042]

I think we are in a "Don't ask, Don't tell" situation when it comes to explaining Birdy's return from the dead. It's probably easier and less headache enducing

[Adam]

I think the Snowbird explanation can avoid cloning simply because she was a goddess. It's far easier to swallow something totally fantasy based like "The Great Beasts are returning to the gods orchestrated her return" than it is some convoluted cloning storyline that messes up continuity (and will then need to be fixed later down the road, making it even more confusing).

[kozzi24]

All good fantasy needs internal consistency. Snowbird was not simply a full goddess that had taken over a human body, she was born to parents, one human, one a goddess from her pantheon.
Unfortunately, the continuity was messed up with Snowbird's return, so the fix has already become necessary.
Historically Marvel has always made the explanations, from the days when Stan Lee wrote everything, as evidenced in the letter columns in the old books. Unfortunately, that has degenerated into TRUE nitpickings like ripped costumes being fixes between issues without explanation (like in the last issue of Weapon X's letter column, or, more familiarly to the forum, calling a fisherman an ice fisherman. Matters of true continuity that are potentially damaging to a character are the important ones. I find Snowbird's resurrection to be doubly important because it messes up both Snowbird and Sasquatch. I stick by my daughter-of-Narya in part because the explanation can be made to jive with the history of the character and can be dealt with in one issue, clean and complete in answerting the questions, fixing the mistake, then moving on.

[Richv1]

But wouldn't it be cool to know for sure. Maybe Lobdell will actually explain it sometime in the comic. To many times things are just thrown in without explaination. It doesn't need a big explaination.

[DelBubs]

Hello Old Thread, how ya doing.

Bought this over from the Fir Phaser's... thread



"No, I cannot bleed!"
This was never followed up on, was it?

It would seem that there are a lot of questions that need to be answered about Snowbird. In regards to whether the Snowbird not being allowed to bleed, I don't think it was followed up on. However, given that this is a new body etc, the following questions are raised
1. Is she now allowed to bleed, or does her body still have the same properties as her original Human/Goddess hybrid one?
2. Obviously she can now leave the confines of Canada, is this down to her new body, or did Shaman do some hocus pocus? (I know she could before, but this is reference to her new body)
3. How did she retain memories from her life before, Jocasta and Vision have both had brain patterns downloaded, did A.I.M do the same or as a clone does she have retained memories. Other clones haven't, but they have been human, not hybrid?
4. Why haven't the Northern Gods been in touch?

[Ben]

2. Obviously she can now leave the confines of Canada, is this down to her new body, or did Shaman do some hocus pocus? (I know she could before, but this is reference to her new body)


This one is easy enough to tackle. When Shaman delivered Snowbird, he bound her to earth to give her a connection to it, and strength in battling the great bests. It was the binding that kept her from leaving Canadian soil. When Aim maid her new body, no such binding process was done. However to me this would have some effect on her powers, as I assumed her ability to take the form of native animals was part of the binding process.




3. How did she retain memories from her life before, Jocasta and Vision have both had brain patterns downloaded, did A.I.M do the same or as a clone does she have retained memories. Other clones haven't, but they have been human, not hybrid?


Didn't the Norther Gods in a guest appearence state that they were responsible for Narya's resurrection? I would assume Aim made the body, and the gods let her spirit enter it.

Ben

[Phil]

4. Why haven't the Northern Gods been in touch?

They have been, in Wolverine #172

[DelBubs]

#172, I have that too. Oh well, off to the c*p*o*r*d.

[Richv1]

Well it looks like any unanswered questions about Snowbird or the other Alpha team will be left unanswered for now. They are off on there trip to take the baby Plodex home.
The story of their trip could make a nice limited series sometime.
I guess Snowbird's new body isn't bound to Canada like her original one was. If it was she'd die leaving Earth for such a trip.

[Phil]

The story of their trip could make a nice limited series sometime.

Write to Marvel and say you want your Uncanny Alpha Flight! :wink:

[Richv1]

Do you think they would listen. Will you write in to? :)
If Alpha Flight itself does get cancelled again I hope the characters will at least keep showing up now and than. But other than Sasquatch maybe I doubt they will, the characters from the new team.
Northstar, Aurora, Talisman, Sasquatch, Madison and Diamond Lil these are the best of Alpha Flight left here on Earth. They should get together and form a team.

[Phil]

I wrote in as soon as Scott mentioned the concept in his original interviews :P

[Richv1]

You wrote in asking for a limited series about there travel through space? Or for another regular title called Uncanny X-Men.
I wrote in a few times about the first and second series but it didn't seem to help. But I might try again.