Ben's Bit - Alpha Flight #3 Review

[Ben]

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http://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/af3_3_review_1.jpg[/img:a33be87045]
Writer: Scott Lobell
Artist: Clayton Henry
Story: You Gotta Be Kiddin' Me! Part 3 of 6



OVERVIEW:
[img=left:a33be87045]http://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/af3_3_review_2.jpg[/img:a33be87045]We start off with a battle between two of alien members of the Plodex race, on their homeworld. It would appear that they are the two plodi left standing from a giant free-for-all battle. One of the combatants showed himself to be the clear victor, he spared the life of the other. Speaking to the masses who observed the battle, he suggest that their race should use their great skills of battle to dominate over others, rather than continuously waging war on their own kind. The crowd cheered his idea as he is struck down by the one who's life he had spared. That one, then victorious, took up the proverbial torch of leadership, and urged the crowd to the same end.

It is then that we learn that this is a history lesson that Walter Langkowski is giving to the new members of Alpha Flight. He is educating them on the ways of the Plodex so that they know what it is that they are up against. Both Zuzha Yu and Major Mapleleaf are shocked, and don't seem to think they are up to the challenge. Yukon Jack acts disinterested, while Nemesis seems far too keen on the stories of carnage. General complaints begin to break out until Centennial (who until this point appeared to be asleep) blows up at the young members telling them to let Walter speak, and if they don't like it, to leave. They all seem to take his chiding to heart, and quiet down to allow Walter to continue with his lesson.

[img=right:a33be87045]http://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/af3_3_review_3.jpg[/img:a33be87045]The Plodex continued to develop and hone their art of war, until they became capable of space flight. They spread from planet to planed killing and dominating the inhabitants. They had become impatient with how slowly their domination was taking them, so they endeavored to discover a better form of expansion. Eventually their scientists developed the technology to imprint their DNA into eggs. When the eggs came in contact with a planet's sentient species, they would form a Plodex hybrid, that could quickly adapt to the conditions of the planet and dominate it. The method was successful, too successful as the hybrid eventually made their way back to the Plodex homeworld, and lead to it's destruction in war. Piece by piece the Plodex's own nature crumbled their empire. One ship remained, stocked with Plodex eggs. It crash landed in Earth's north polar ice cap; 98% of the eggs were destroyed in the crash landing. Several hungered years later, the last of the eggs to have survived was discovered by an ice fisherman. As Walter explains how lucky Earth was in this, we are shown a picture of Marrina, a former member of Alpha Flight, presumed dead.

The story being told, Centennial asks Walter when the training will begin. Walter explains that he had no plans on training these new recruits, that he figured he had chosen people who did not need it. On the last page we are the members of the new Alpha Flight rather bloodied up.

REVIEW:


Wow, Scott Lobell did a fabulous job of outlining the history of the Plodex. Everything about this race was very vague before, even though they had a significant tie to Alpha Flight. I really came out of this issue feeling like I knew more about the race in a whole, or at least their history. Even though this was an other issue with very little action, there was enough in the early Plodex scenes to give me my fix. I know this is culminating to a battle royal in the next several issues.

[img=left:a33be87045]http://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/af3_3_review_4.jpg[/img:a33be87045]I enjoyed seeing Rutherford step up to the plate to put those complaining young whipper-snappers in their place. I would like to see his age and experience used in such a way as time goes on. I was hoping however that we would learn a little more about the powers these new characters posses. We still really don't know what powers, if any, Zuzha and Yukon Jack have. I'm sure in time this will be shown. The stage seems well set, and I'm ready to get into the mission it's self. We know the characters, we know the enemies, and we know the goal.

I LOVED seeing that one shot of Marrina. What really did bother me was when Lobell said that she was found by an ice fisherman...which was not how it was written originally. Perhaps we could just pass this off as Walter being misinformed, but I was a little bit disappointed by that.

Clayton's art was superb in this issue. He does indeed just keep getting better and better with each panel. I don't doubt that he'll become a major name in Marvel at the rate he is growing. He sure did make Marrina look like a purty little thing :)

A great issue, awsome history of the plodex. It's nice to see some good hard facts put down to avoid confusion later on, as is often the case.


RATING:

[img]http://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/redleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/greyleaf.jpghttp://www.alphaflight.net/reviews/greyleaf.jpg

[PWalk]

He's definitely on a roll now with the way he's building up momentum for a showdown. I'm really liking the fact that there hasn't been any action as yet. Most books try and jam down your throat just how tough their heroes are. Not this one. Lobdell is fleshing out characters first, cultivating a story that you know eventually will lead to a big brewhaha.

Henry's pencils are magic once again. I really cannot wait to see his depictions of the classic team in action whenevr that happens.

8 Maple Leafs as well.

[Mystic]

Well, I haven't picked up the issue yet, but I look forward to reading it. Seeing Marrina was interesting (and here's hoping that she comes back). Here's hoping that this series sticks around for more than 20 issues (which is more than likely the way things are going now).

Cheers,
-Mystic

[SwiftFox]

This was the first issue I've actually got my hands on so far.... and I must say... WOW!

I'm really impressed. Great art, good writing, I'm very happy with this. It was great to see expansion on the formerly 1-dimensional Plodex. I only had 2 problems. One was the ice fisherman thing.... and the other was inappropraiate 'eh?'s. Personally, I use the word, a fair bit actually. But I found it used in bad places, where it doesn't fit right. I think Scott needs a Canadian 'advisor' for things like that.... (and the $1 bill....)
But all in all... minor things.

I can't wait for Issues 1 & 2 to arrive... and 4 & 5 & 6 and.....

[beetleblack]

How COOL does Marrina look!!!! Didn't read the review as didn't want to poil it for myself, but very much looking forward to it.

[DelBubs]

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to #3 as well, thought I was gonna get it today, but as it was pointed out to me, Monday was a bank Holiday so deliveries are a day late, so I gotta wait until tomorrow now.

In the words of the great bard "Bolloxs"

[Phil]

I clean forgot that and went to the shops anyway.... Bollox indeed.

[Snowbird]

I'm a little disappointed that (A) Everything that's happened in the past three issues could have very easily been done in issue one, and (B) Mr. Lobdell made such a grievous error regarding Marrina's origin.

Granted, there have been a number of stupid continuity errors over Alpha's lifetime (any of which could have been solved by simply READING what had gone before) but to see this trend continue is most disheartening. When the amateur afficinados have a better understanding of the material than the professionals paid to produce the works, it doesn't suggest Marvel is putting much effort into the book.

On the positive side, I adore Mr. Henry's art! I hope he sticks with the series for a very long time.

[Ben]

Though it would have been possible to squeeze the content of the last 3 issues into one, it would have been a huge mistake in my mind. It would have been incredibly rushed, and the character developement, and rounding of the plot would have been nil. We would have been left with a flat story, with a bunch of flat characters. Personally, I love the way Lobell is shaping the book.

I do agree that they error on Marrina's background is a bit dissapointing, as I said in my review, however if you take into consideration how much care Scott has shown for the book, it's characters, and it's fans, I'm willing to aceept one error in continuity. And I beg to differ on the suggestion that Scott isn't putting effort in on the book, he's putting more in that we've seen in a very, very long time.

Ben

[Nalyd Psycho]

I'm glad it wasn't crammed into one. I've read old X-Men and Iron Man comics and the pacing is so quick that there's never a point at which I can connect with the characters and care. I actually find alot of the Byrne Claremont run to be really dull because of the pacing.

[kozzi24]

I liked Henry's art. That's the positive.
Let me defend Lobdell on one point here. Marrina's Dad was the captain of a "small fishing trawler." The storm in which the Plodex egg was found was a choppy rainstorm (all this from AF Vol 1 #2 pgs 14 -15.) Obviously, rain off the Newfoundland coast indicates summer, so there is nothing contradictory that Tom Smallwood was not mainly an ice fisherman. Further that with all information in Vol3 #3 being told by Walt, who has worked with Marrina very infrequently so may forget the little details like the exact form of her father's fishing business, so there's no real mistake...there. It begs the question just how Walt learned the background of the Plodex that even the Master doesn't seem to know.
The egg that became Marrina was found off the coast of Newfoundland.
The egg that Heather and Puck later encountered was found in one of the Great Lakes. In the recent Kang War, the Plodex wolf-things are land, based but still in that sea-green tint (IF I'M REMEMBERING RIGHT.)
The point that the writers nbeed to read the stories that establish things they are now working on was very apparent to me, and in using the Plodex, Lobdell missed one of the main authorities on them: the Collector, as seen in Marvel Team-up Annual #7. This issue does have one inconsistency in the writingacross story pages 10 & 11: "an aquarium is the safest place to hold a conversation with a Plodex" (not, with a Plodex of you abilities, Marrina" but Marrina's aquatic abilities are described by the collector as "odd."
Three other Plodex are shown in suspended animation on page 11, all sea green, An even better range of Plodex adapted to different worlds' dominant species is on page 22 and throughout the following action scenes. All the Plodex have the sea-green coloring, and most show little details of aquatic nature. Even the only other baseform/humanoid one shown (p11) has ears like fins. Great job by Paul Neary, and the story by Louise Jones/Simonson is a good model of good storytelling: everything she needed later in the story was introduced ahead of time in natural ways, not info dumps. She handled the team circa AF #13 very well, even with a hint to Northstar's sexuality from Aurora's dialogue.
The story itself shows what does NOT happen these days. Details linked to events of other titles of the time, including Thor, The Defenders, The New Mutants and even Rom. Back in 1984, the Marvel Universe was a cohesive place! Obviously, MT-U Annual #7 is a great issue, and should be part of every AF collection.
The problem I have is that Lobdell and Henry disregarded the Plodex, and also the basic tenets of science fiction.
The most glaring problem is that the Plodex are depicted as human. This is NOT acceptable to how the Plodex have been established. Not in any way. We're past the model of 1960's movies and TV where budgets only allowed human aliens with cosmetic nose ridges or pointed ears. The Plodex should have been aquatic or amphibeous creatures with a great range of adaptability that allowed them to conquer their environment.
Instead, Lobdel creates a human race that dominates everything, including each other, indiscriminately. A realistic model of an advanced race (read "species" if you like, but I use "race") would be a pride of lions. There is only dominant ALPHA male that dominates the pride: females and young'ns. If a contender defeats the Alpha and takes over the Pride, he kills the offspring of the old Alpha male to bring the females into heat quickly so that he may impregnate them with his offspring. That's natural dominance that works. Lobdell's scenario is impossible because the way he depicts their dominance wouldn't allow a grouping of them in the arena shown. They wouldn't be watching a battle, they'd be killing each other. His joke, "Who's with me?" >stab< "Who's with ME?" is realistic enough, but that scenario never would have stopped.
My take: The Plodex would have had an Alpha male who dominated all others. The males beneath him would have recognized their station, and worked on community tasks under the Alpha male, who would have been a mad conquering emperor. It could have worked, but the scenario needed more work on Lobdell's part. A lot more work.
He also loses me with the Plodex expanding huge swathes through multiple galaxies. Bad joke, the name of their world is "illegal." Bad, absurd, horrendous.
There are 21 story pages this issue. There is an average of 3--yes three, only THREE--panels per page this issue. (68 panels in the book, your count may be different if you count background non-bordered art or the "aliens shocked at being defeated" insets. Think this is why there hasn't been any action in this title? Issues 1 through 3 could have been combined into one issue. This problem, rampant in today's professional output, isn't just padding for the trade collection market, it's an after-effect of the Image style of showcasing large panels of faulted art at the expense of stories.
I did not like the first issue. The second issue gave me hope. This third issue fills me with more disdain than the first one did.
I love Alpha Flight. I really do. The twins, Sasquatch, Heather, Puck, Shaman, Jeffries, Marrina, Snowbird, even Persuasion. But this isn't Alpha Flight.
There's no motivation for Sasquatch to be recruiting untested people when he could have called the X-Men or Avengers. He could have called Nemesis, Wyre Talisman and other fringe characters that are people he knows. I like his development of Nemesis, except she was never an outright anarchist, but someone with her own agenda that she felt no need to explain to others. As seen during Furman's run, she would help if convinced it was in her own best interests.
From what I read of his explanations of how this title came about, Lobdell should have been allowed to pursue his Hellions pitch. Instead, he was told to combine that and Alpha Flight, and the result has been pretty bad.
Off the top of my head, an Alpha Flight title: how about #1: the team defends the world against an alien threat, is defeated and captured. Sasquatch is allowed to escape in order to bring more victims, maybe because he is already a limited Metamorph if Lobdell really insisted on the Plodex angle. (Although with a second thought, the Plodez would want to study a limited Metamorph human most of all!)
#2: The Avengers and FF don't believe Sasquatch's call for help. Sarcasticvally, maybe they don't believe him because they thought the real Sasquatch now wore armor. Here you can have your comedy issue of Sasquatch travelling New York City and Westchester, finding no one believing him, no one liking him, Jarvis complaining of jumping fleas in the mansion being at a height since the Beast was in residence. He could have bumped into Rhino or someone and done a little NYC super-heroing.
Issue 3, he searches back home, because without established teams, he must rely on others. He find Nemesis, is lead to Mapleleaf because the father's too old to be bothered so offers up his son. Sasquatch's search for old teammates and associates REALLY clues him in to the Weapon X title problems as they relate to Alpha.
Issue 4, Sasquatch's assemblage launches their effort to save Alpha. Maybe there's the culling of an extranuous character or two like Manbot or Murmur, but the new team barely manages to free one of the prisoners before being defeated.
Issue 5, The one free teammate frees the others. Room for character development, what does the one free one REALLY think of each teammate as he frees them. Suspicion of the new Snowbird? Blame to Heather for killing the old Snowbird? Thought that Chuck Moss is the embodiment of lameness with overrated potential? Once I free Puck, I'll have someone with focus?
Issue 6, the final victory over the core of this threat and a wrap up.
This title is not on my pull list, but that nostalgia for the characters and stories I loved keeps me buying it. I still haven't seen the letter column explanation for the new team as promised in #1. I bought #2 to have the development of Nemesis. I liked it enough that I didn't puruse #3 when it came out.
I would like it more if it was another title, although maybe Marvel's marketing department was right and people WOULDN'T BUY IT if it didn't have a nostalgic title. I would even be less hard on this if it was a Sasquatch title, with these new characters being created as supporting cast specifically for Walter. Walt having a friend like Mapleleaf? That would actually be a great foil for Sasquatch, who does sink ethically when it suits his purposes, whether personal or professional research.
Lobdell's use of the "eh?" is also bad. The Canadians that do use it do so make a question out of a statement, eh? "phew, eh?" is just plain WRONG.
Sorry for the long post. I want to love anything related to Alpha Flight, but this book loses me between glimmers of hope and interest with bad structure and atrocious details.

[Phil]

Finally got to read the issue...

The book's written really well IMO.
A solid tale of the Plodex that works for me.

A few discrepencies here and there, but nothing too major.

My only problem was that the history lesson section took up slightly too much of the single issue, and again that horrible voice of "written for the trade" is creeping into my head.

I probably enjoyed #'s 2 and 1 more than this issue, but because of the Alpha action in them.
I still enjoyed it though, and it's very much in keeping with the AF spirit.
It's probably a better read than #1 as well.

I'm optimistic. :D

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I'm glad to hear the optimism here... and frankly, I think the continuity error can be overlooked. Why? Because for the interests of keeping this book alive and such, I think some people need to stop dissecting it so thoroughly, and just enjoy it. I mean, come ON... Alpha Flight's a great team, and most of us here love them to pieces, but they're not all that marketable. Two cancelled series can attest to that. And I think Scott's approach to this series is a good one. It's fun, the characters are varied, and because most of the characters are new, people who have never read Alpha Flight before aren't bogged down with continuity.

And frankly, people that ***** incessantly about the botching of Marrina's origin should shut up for two reasons. One, at least you got to SEE Marrina! And two, at least you've got Alpha Flight. Shut up and enjoy it. :lol:

[Phil]

One thing that came into my mind since I wrote the above - I wondered why Walt didn't mention The Master.

My first thought was that it was down to Marvel's no Flashback policy, so as to not confuse new readers.

My second, and this is what I'm hoping, is that The Master is behind the Plodex attack on AF.

To this you may say, 'Well why didn't Walt brief them on The Master?'
My idea - simply that he didn't want to scare them/put them off, especially after the result of Alpha's initial meeting with him.

*shrugs*

[DelBubs]

I managed to pick it up today, so what did I think? While I can take Kozzi's concerns , which he highlighted and explained very well, I still feel that AF needs to be different from the herd to actually make any head way in the world of comics. There are so many questions from Alpha's past that need to be answered, but I've been following this team for nearly 25 years and I'm just happy to see a comic on the shelf with the AF logo on it.

If you look at any Hero, there are always more unanswered questions than answered, this includes everyone from Avengers to Champions. Alpha is on the shelves, it's funny, different, while there may be discrepencies, there is nothing that will get me to bent out of shape, once they describe Puck 1 as a 6 foot giant with penis envy then I'm going to get narky. I wish Alpha could be back in it's heyday, but I'm also a realist and feel that this route is Alpha's best chance for survival.

[syvalois]

I bought #3 and I find it very bof. Good drawing except for the eyes that don't look the same directions. I just don't get how walter know all that and find the way to make a very big mistake in Marrina's origine

[kozzi24]

And frankly, people that b***h incessantly about the botching of Marrina's origin should shut up for two reasons. One, at least you got to SEE Marrina! And two, at least you've got Alpha Flight. Shut up and enjoy it.
You're approaching flaming here, my friend. Your choice of avatar would indicate you're a relatively new AF reader, and I'm glad you're enjoying this new title. A lot of us that are "*****ing" are older readers who don't see much "Alpha Flight" in the latest ALPHA FLIGHT title.
Some history for you: Volume one had a good run of 50 issues, then sales really began to sink. It went direct market sales as a means of staying alive amid smaller numbers. Then, to further stay alive, they revamped it in a novel way. They brought back Shaman, Talisman, Puck, Northstar and Aurora. A variation of that core team remained until it was cancelled at #130, due as much to the changed marketplace of the 90's as to the book. From a very critical standpoint, Simon Furman and Pat Broderick were producing the best Alpha since Byrne had left the book.
Then came Volume 2, axed in under two years, with the reprieve of three additional issues to allow the writer to see if the return of the originals (in issue 17!) would boost sales enough for a stay of execution. The stories weren't all that bad, but it wasn't "Alpha Flight". It was far more of a New Mutants meets SHIELD black ops.
In Volume 3, we have Sasquatch and the Alpha Flight title. But where's Alpha Flight? Prisoners, or otherwise glimpsed in flashback panels. Like I said in my above post, I'd be lest critical if this was Lobdell's proposed "Hellions" book. I'd be less critical if it was a solo Sasquatch book.
I can overlook an error or two. I could overlook the misused "eh's" or the "ice fisherman" gaff or the color of the Plodex. But when I'm stopping every few pages because there are so many contradictions and mistakes, it detracts from my enjoyment of the book.
You are enjoying it. If discussions here jeapordize that enjoyment for you, I don't think the solution is for us to shut up, I think it's for you to stop listening and instead read something you enjoy.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

Alright, I'll respond to this as best I can. First, I've been reading Alpha Flight for well over fourteen years now. I own every issue of the first two runs as well as most guest appearances in every other title. I'm not a new reader. I just happen to like Major Mapleleaf. A lot. He makes me laugh, and he's cute. Something I don't get enough of in Marvel these days.

As far as marketability, if Furman's run really was the best Alpha Flight since Byrne (and frankly, I agree with you there), then the book wouldn't have been cancelled. And it wasn't as if the title didn't have some serious weight behind it. It did go for 130 issues. But the fact remains that Alpha Flight began to get stale toward the end.

Now, volume two I enjoyed. A lot. But frankly, it's old-school fans like yourself, who aren't keen on change, that doomed the book. The concept was an interesting one, and the characters were interesting. Were they rip-offs of other characters? Yes. But almost every character imaginable is ripped off some other character. If people such as yourself had given the book more objectivity when reading it, perhaps it wouldn't have been cancelled.

If you sit down and read the book and feel an overwhelming need to nitpick it, then perhaps you don't need to be reading it. Continuity errors are going to happen. Perhaps you shouldn't get so uptight about them. Remember, this isn't reality. It's fantasy. And part of the enjoyment of fantasy requires one to bend the reality rules a bit. Maybe you should try doing that, instead of snagging on every continuity error you run into. You might enjoy the book more.

Now, I'm enjoying the book quite fine, even though I'm reading a lot of complaints about every little error in the book. But it's complaining like that which starts negative sentiment, which writers (and Marvel itself) pick up on... and that's how books get cancelled, too. Poor sales aren't the only thing that get them cancelled.

Just my two cents.

[HappyCanuck]

Major Mapleleaf Jr., all I can say is
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

BRAVO!!

[MAJOR MAPPLE LOB]

Play nice!

LOL!

Gosh, Gang --

You were all doing so well -- and now we're bickering like all those other boards! We're ALPHANS, darn it! We're better than that!

(NOTE: I just finished writing this sort of stream of thought post you'll find below...and I realized that I kind of just kept typing thoughts as they popped into my head. I was going to edit them, but then I thought "Oh what the heck -- why not? Just a glimpse into the fevered mind that is Scott Lobdell." Just please understand that sometimes my sense of humor and my use of exclaimation points kind of make me seem more irritated than I actually am! It doesn't always come out as humorously as I mean it!

Also, I really like ALPHA FLIGHT fans...a lot! I even like the ones that disagree with me! It doesn't mean I'm going to change my mind -- it just means I like youse guys a lot, so I figure a sort of behind the scenes unedited ramble is a way of saying THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT)

Just a few things that come to mind:

Regarding Sasquatch''s version of M's origin...? As the series continues (and we'll see a HUGE version of this in the next issue!) we're going to realize that a lot of the people's interpretations of events come specifically from their POV. That is, Sasquatch is only relating the story of Marrina as it was told to him. Fisherman? Ice fisherman? Ira Fisherman? He's not really clear on the details, and he's not much interested in fleshing it out to for the others -- it isn't important. Just like it wasn't important to bring her up in conversation here. What would be gained by explaining "Oh, yeah -- and one of them used to on our team once. Just so you know."

Any more than it was important to mention the MASTER. "And let me tell you, there was this one guy? Oooofta! Man, was he one bad guy. Let me take a few minutes and tell you about him. Not for any reason..." (?!)

Am I missing something? Is Walter missing something?

***

Regarding the pacing...and the tradepaperback gripe...? I just have to say, I am not writing for the tradepaperback, I am writing for the series. In several issues, as the series progresses, the PLODEX ship is going to be intregal to the series. Way intregal...and in a way cool way that I've never seen before. And I felt that it was important to take the time to spell it out here.

Similarly, I have always been fascinated by Byrne's creation of the PLODEX! Great name! Great concept! Great visuals! And a Canadian-centric threat! (JOHN, you ROCK!) and I loved the opportunity to explore it more at length.

Also, I think it was important not only to the readers, but even more important to the characters -- the new member of ALPHA FLIGHT. It was WALTER saying, "Look, this is what we're up against..." Yes, you and I and everyone else who read ALPHA FLIGHT know the PLODEX and what it means -- but the PLODEX aren't "Vampires" or "Werewolves" of "Harpies" -- they are an entirely different race with a long history. Could WALTER have said "We're going to kick some alien butt -- you in or you out?" I suppose he could. But he didn't. He spelled it out for them. How can you not love a guy like that?

*****

Regarding the dominant imperitive would have lead to endless battles on into eternity and therefor there would be no stadium where people fight, but rather everyone in the stadium would be fighting and killing each other?

Umm...we, as humans, have a genetic imperitve to procreate. Does that mean that all we do is rut day and night...? When we see other people rutting, are we compelled to tear at our clothes and rut along with them? (Okay, sometimes...but not always.)

We need to eat too, in order to survive. Does that mean we spend our days and nights eating? Eating and rutting and rutting and eating? It sounds a lot like my puppy, even he is sitting here sound asleep beside me. (Perhaps dreaming of eating and rutting, I don't know. He is asleep and will not tell me.)

*****

Someone mentioned Marvel's no flashback rule as a reason I might have done something...or not done something. I, umm...don't really talk to Marvel. And I've never heard of a no flashback rule.

*****

This reminds me of some other posts I've read (I just don't remember where) where people have said "Zuzha is totally derivative of Blah Blah Girl from THE OUTSIDERS." Now, to me, derivative means I derived my character from an existing character. And while I did (I thought it was interesting that even though Zuzha never knew her pops, she somehow wound up with the same job he had in his youth)...it wasn't because of Blah Blah Girl. I haven't read OUTSIDERS. I couldn't tell you who is on the team if you held a gun to my head -- Okay, if you held a gun to my head, I might be able to choke out "NIGHTWING!" and "SPEEDY!" (Is he still called SPEEDY? Or ARSENEL?! HELP ME! I CAN'T THINK UNDER PRESSURE LIKE THIS!!!) And now, I guess I could say "That bartender girl like PUCK! That bartender girl like PUCK!" CLICK!

******

While we're on the topic of "mistakes"...I should point out that there is a reason Yukon Jack talks like he does...his mangled syntax, his woefully inappropriate uses of "thous" and "thees". And all will be made clear. Just not immediately. (How many issues did we have to wait to see WOLVERINE without his mask? How much longer until he learned his code-name? When did we find out STORM was a thief before she was a weather goddess? That she was claustrophobic?) Hmmm?

Sit back and enjoy the ride...!

****

Um, is it "dumb" that the very name of a planet is illegal? Maybe.

****

Regarding PUCK's "inappropriate" use of the word, eh? I don't see it that way. Me? I use a particular expression very often. "Ooofta."

I say "Oooofta" if I see something amazing -- like Gwynneth Paltrow in that first photo shoot she did for TALK MAGAZINE. Sigh.

I say "Oooofta" when I see something HORRIBLE -- like if I pass a wrecked car on the side of the highway.

I say "Oooofta" when I am strrrrrrrrrrrrrrretching after too many hours at the keyboard.

There are many times I use the word.

Similarly, Zuzha sprinkles the word "eh" thoughout her coversations. Sometimes she does it for effect -- sometimes because she's nervous -- sometimes she is just being a smart ass. "Phew, eh" is her way of trying to inject some brevity into a situation. It is a decision she makes -- I don't thing one can quantify it as being right or wrong. She's a quirky chick who is being quirky.


****

Just to address the whole MEMBERSHIPT thang...I'd just like to say that I, as a fan of ALPHA FLIGHT, disagree with the notion that ALPHA FLIGHT is the original members world without end, Amen. I think ALPHA FLIGHT is a Canadian team of super powered operatives. Period. Over the years there have been different groupings of different heroes. When we FIRST met them in UNCANNY, they were a particular set of heroes.

When we first met them in ALPHA FLIGHT #1, they were joined by two OTHER members...(In the VERY FIRST ISSUE their membership was in flux!! WOO HOO! Puck and Marrina weren't even officially ALPHA FLIGHT members!)

I'll just say that again...from the very first issue, ALPHA FLIGHT was in flux.

And this version of the team is going to flux too. As a fan from their very first appearance, I am totally okay with that. I actually think a] that it is exciting and b] as John Byrne originally established, there were all levels of FLIGHT (ALPHA, BETA, GAMMA...) a GENIUS CONCEPT (Take ANOTHER bow, MR. BYRNE) that I remember as a fan thinking "I have NEVER seen ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE IN COMICS!! There isn't X-MEN and V-MEN and W-MEN who have to train to BECOME X-MEN! There aren't SOPHMORE AVENGERS and JR. AVENGERS and then with a lot of practice SR. AVENGERS! It's not like you start out part of the FANTASTIC TWO and then FANTASTIC THREE until you finally become a member of FANTASTIC FOUR!" Again, I think one of the COOLEST THINGS that ALPHA FLIGHT has going for it IS it's state of flux! (Heck, they were such a cool sort of team, that then they needed a new leader, they chose HEATHER?!! LOL!) I think it is a strength -- I think it makes ALPHA FLIGHT unique! And I intend to examine that mucho!

Am I missing something?

(Why do I bring this up...? Mostly because I want to point out that it's not like these things just happen spontaneously. I don't just sit down and say "I will change the roster!! And no one can stop me!!!" Instead I say "What is one of the things that sets ALPHA FLIGHT apart from any other book on the market? How do I play to that strength? How do I give the audience something they aren't getting from twenty other books?" You certainly have every right to disagree with my POV, but I just wanted to share where I am coming from.

Again, one and all -- thank you for supporting the book!

Youse guys ROCK![/i]

[SwiftFox]

.........

wow!


Welcome aboard. [edited: okay so you actually were here BEFORE me...but uh... welcome to uh... posting?]

I just don't know what to say. (Dude you sooo almost made me wet my pants.)

[HappyCanuck]

:shock: Um, thanks for the visit 'Mjr. Mapple Lob', and the recap of pretty much everything that was running throught my head in this little argument...

(uh, is he gonna be making posts semi-regularly?? and why do I feel like I just met someone like Cindy Crawford, or Lenard Nemoy, or Elvis??) :-s

[Phil]

The man just oozes class....

[Moderator]Anyone involved in thinking of coming close to starting an argument, read what Scott's just said.
Do you really wanna disrespect the man?
Don't make me start dishing out warnings.[Moderator]

Scott, as to the trade comment, it wasn't a gripe per se, just wondering how much Marvel editorial had to do with pacing and things, as the tale so far seems like it'd be read a lot better althogether.

Which isn't at all to say that they don't work as single issues, because I'm loving them.

[varo]

just got to the issue today, i think it is absolutely amazing the detail given to the plodex's origin, i seriously can not remember the last time a villians origin was this well thought out and presented that it took a entire issue, i closed the book thinking "this team is going to get it's ass kicked".

not only that, but i don't think you guys are giving scott lobdell enough credit, although there was a pic of marrina underneath the panel of sasquatch stating "98% of the eggs were destroyed, the last of which was discovered by a ice fisherman" never once did he say that was marrina......98% could very well mean there was another egg, and it was indeed found by the ice fisherman, and IS NOT MARRINA let us not forget, someone had to capture the originals that had something to do with the plodex.

3 issues in, and i can sit back and relax and start enjoying the ride, alpha flight is finally at last back in capable hands.

1 thing i was thinking while reading the front splash page, how cool would it be to see another canadian super hero team show up in alpha. it's a pretty big country, i'm sure theres one or 2 of them floating around.

[varo]

o yea, the guy was a "ice fisherman" i think the north pole (not were santa lives, the magnetic one) has a little bit of ice, isn' that where the plodex ship that captured the master landed?


i am a regular detective.


(watch me be totally wrong..... :oops: )

[kozzi24]

It did go for 130 issues. But the fact remains that Alpha Flight began to get stale toward the end.
Poor sales are not the only reason titles have been canned by Marvel. Back in the 70's, the company had had overexpanded and cut a lot of titles that were going strong and had a fan base, but Marvel wished to cut back production to a more limited number of titles. Some of those cuts of good titles: Champions, Super-Villain Team-up, Nova. Maybe they would have failed due to sales eventually, but company policies and direction had much to do with it.
In the 80's, the same thing happened, for a slightly different reason. This related to a company-wide cutback, when nine new titles were being created, company policy found a need to make room for them by cutting existing titles. There were probably lower-selling titles, but without the need to make room for X-Factor and the New Universe, titles like Power Man/Iron Fist, The Defenders, and The Thing would have gone on longer.
Alpha Flight in 1994 was one of the first in a gradual changeover of the mid-nineties. If you re-read the letter column ANSWERS in AF 128-130, editorial NEVER stated low sales was the reason. They did state that the hard-core fans should have spoken up sooner than the announcement that the series would be ending. I don't think the Northstar limited would have followed the month after AF #130 if unprofitable sales were the sole reason for the title's demise. There are clear editoral purges to make room on the schedule for projects that might make more money than the titles being cut. Even aside the Heroes Reborn BS, the mid 90's saw the loss of Avengers West, (for Force Works) New Warriors (for Thunderbolts) and others.
In further defense of Furman, there was professional interest in Alpha greater than there had been since Byrne's run. DEATH METAL doesn't count, but at AF 128 hit the stands, Puck and Heather were appearing in Wolverine. An all-Alpha What-If had been committed to and appeared shortly after #130. Although abandon, probably in part because of the AF cancellation, Sasquatch had been slated to appear regularly in the Hulk and the X-Offices were expressing interest in Alpha characters. Alpha actually had speaking roles in crossovers.
Alpha had gotten stale in the middle. No writers rushed to guest-star Alphas in their titles between AF 50 and 120. Puck appeared in a Wolverine 3-parter, and there were appearances in Avengers and SHIELD that don't count because they were written by the Alpha scribes of the time.

Now, volume two I enjoyed. A lot. But frankly, it's old-school fans like yourself, who aren't keen on change, that doomed the book.
Like myself? I supported Volume 1 at its worst, and supported all of Volume 2. So far, I've bought all of Volume 3.

Most of my inspection of #3's background of the Plodex was made from the standpoint of realISTIC s/f writing, which has tenets that include making fictional work (1) self-consistent and (2) along current theory of real science, or explained why it differs. Darwinism 101: creatures as nihilistic as the (very human) Plodex were made out to be don't survive.


...complaining like that which starts negative sentiment, which writers (and Marvel itself) pick up on... and that's how books get cancelled, too.
I don't really nit pick. I am not the one who raised the qualm about the "ice" fisherman, and in fact defended Scott Lobdell on the point along the very same lines with which he defended himself. What you point out is true, but is short sightedness on the part of Marvel. Current editorial staff just don't seem to bother fact checking (see the S/F rule (1) above) and publication policy does seem to favor ditching a mistake prone book for something easier. Avoiding the problem was easier back in the "good old days. I think Jim Shooter could recognize when something wasn't kosher with published history off the top of his head. Later regimes had employed knowledgible continuity editors like Peter Sanderson. (I may have that name wrong). I also never heard of the no flashback policy, but maybe that poster confused that with Marvel's very real "no footnote rule". Kudos to Tom B of Avengers for using the "Avengers file log on the letters page as a way of circumventing that for a while. My opinion is that (1) the no footnotes make it harder to track character histories and (2) hurt what could be used to promote trades of the stories the footnotes would refer to.
To nitpick is to look for little problems, as crab sufferers everywhere can attest. The "ice" adverb was bitpicking. I just don't see the change of a race always depicted as aquatically based suddenly turning human as a little problem.
Finally, I am not opposed to new characters. In Alpha, I never cared for Talisman, and she was Byrne. I really liked Persuasion, Pathway, Goblyn and Windshear. I could give or take Bosha, never thought Jeffries was used to the potential of his powers, and accepted Diamon Lil as "this could be interesting." I did not care for Manikin, Wyre, or (sorry Scott) Wild Child on the team.
I am critical of new characters being created when an underutilized character of similar ability or personality could just as well suffice, or ones that are blatant dirivitives OF CHARACTERS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SAME BOOK. This goes for characters such as Murmur (Kara), Miss Mass (Pearl), Yeti (Sasquatch), Bile (Pestilence) Flex (Jeffries), among others. Wouldn't the Northstar/Weapon PRIME fight have had a lot more emotional impact if it had been Vindicator, Aurora, Sasquatch and Wild Child sent to reign in J-P?
I am die hard in that an Alpha Flight title should have the characters recognizable as Alpha Flight, on at least half the roster.
Of Lobdell's new crew, I don't see use in the new Puck. (In reply to Scott, the use of "eh" as her personal "ooofta" comes across as a bad stereotype the like of which has not been seen since "The Phantom Menace.")
I think the old guy has potential.
I like what he's done with Nemesis, but personally saw her as a mystery figure with her own agenda, not an outright anarchist.
I don't care for Yukon Jack.
I do like Mapleleaf. I caught the deeper meaning of the "I don't wear panties" joke: this is the son of the 1st Mapleleaf you created, who had a gay son who died of AIDS, so it is very possible that this junior Mapleleaf has had to assure his parents that he was not the son wearing the panties. I like Mapleleaf a lot, and openly confess to having liked his old man in that single appearance. Mapleleaf Junior could be a great foil to the original Alpha as this straight laced guy has to deal with ironclad Heather, multple Aurora (especially the racy personality), Northstar's preference and attitude, Walter's challenged ethics, Puck as an analogy of genetic engineering in today's world. He could even view Shaman's relationship to Talisman in contrast to the upbringing that made Mapleleaf Jr the straight-laced guy and his brother the not-straight guy.
Basically a new character should emphasize or contrast the existing members. For me, and for other readers if I hear the talk in W!ldtime Comics (North Attleboro, Mass.) right, a band of new characters is NOT "Alpha Flight."
In contrast, I prefer the Avengers with no more two founding members so other heroes of the MU have a chance to shine.

Edited by Phil - Reason for Edit: We are NOT having arguments on this board.

[Nalyd Psycho]

I prefer to just look at a book for what it is rather than what was. To me, letting continuity effect my perception of a current book only limits my ability to enjoy comics, and at 4.25$, I need to enjoy the comic. Maybe you prefer to worry about these things, that's fine, but personally, I just let it slide. And I'm happy because I find Alpha Flight to be a darn good read.

It is so clear to me that both Nemesis and Major Mapleleaf are competing for breakout character of 2004. (With Cooper Santiago of Touch as their biggest competition.) These two, along with Sasquatch are clearly my favourites.

I found the Plodex to be very interesting and look forward to our action issues.

[Phil]

I also never heard of the no flashback policy, but maybe that poster confused that with Marvel's very real "no footnote rule".

No, it was clearly stated in the X-Office, I can't remember right now if it was in the Morrison Manifesto in the New X-Men HC, or on an interview with Morrison, as well as Claremont's X-Fan board somewhere I think, that they weren't allowed to go back into the past and add details to events that never happened, so as not to confuse readers.

However, with the return to spandex costumes and traditional superhero action this may have become obselete.

[beetleblack]

I think pretty much everything that Morrison tried to do with the X-Men will now (sadly) be completely over turned!!! But then I suppose if you think how many different directions AF had in it's original run...

[DelBubs]

There's been some very interesting things said here, but I would just like to take one point that struck me. The comment re 'Old time fans' probably contributing to the demise of Vol 2. I have never hidden the fact that IMHO Vol 2 has no place in the alpha mythos and if you look what has been done with them since, neither do a lot of writers. I bought all of Vol 2 including the Annual etc and on the AWaves mailing list, made my views of each issue clear. My love of Alpha is such that I even continued reading the book when Mantlo was ripping the heart out of them in vol 1.

To my mind vol 2 was cancelled because a lot of readers came on board and very quickly disembarked. I know many old time AF fans and don't know of one who stopped picking up Vol 2 until the end. Many of us who had web sites at the time placed banners supporting the team and linking to an on line petition. While I may not like Vol 2, I realised that lots of new Alpha fans only had those issues to gauge their fondness for the team, so supported the book until the end. If anyone should be blamed for that cancellation, it should be Seagle who wandered off into gov conspiracy theory land as an easy out, instead of trying to write unique stories that existing AF fans had appreciated. I blame Marvel for flooding the market around that time with no clear policy of the future of the comics that came out then. A kind of hit and miss policy that was picked up on by fans who left numerous new releases in droves.

In regards to Furman, his tenure was probably the third longest of any writer and to my mind his work rates right up there with the last 16 issues of Byrnes run. Naysayer anywhere will obviously have some impact on fickle readers, but if a comic is written well enough, than anyone who is not a sheep (who follows blindly) will obviously make up their own mind.

I'm not getting out of my tree here, but just thought that I should answer any charges that fans and not the writer and artist where to blame for vol 2 going tits up.

Cheers

[kozzi24]

I also supported Volume 2, for the same reason.
I have been supporting WEAPON X due to its Alpha connections for the same reason.
My biggest problem with Volume 3 is that it is Sasquatch and new characters, not a recognizable "Alpha Flight."
Knowing Scott Lobdell is reading through posts here is one reason why I have been trying to explain and defend any criticisms I have made. I'd like to see it as a book I look forward to, not one I am at least temporarily buying just to show support for the characters traditionally associated with Alpha.

[DelBubs]

My biggest problem with Volume 3 is that it is Sasquatch and new characters, not a recognizable "Alpha Flight."

This was my quibble with vol 2, but with vol 3 at least we haven't had to wait until #15 to see any of the originals. You only have to look at previous Marvel failures to realise that a writer has only a few issues to create a niche for what he is writing. For AF with all it's previous negative connections, somthing very different had to put out. I'm willing to bet that by the end of the first arc, a lot of fan concerns will have been adressed. I see the first six issues as a prologue, a laying of foundations before the actual structure goes up.

[Ben]

I totally agree with Del, none of us know what Scott really has in mind, but I don't have any doubts that he's got it all planned out. I can imagine someone having the first 6 isuues, looking back to something that bothered them in issue 1, or 2, or 3 and saying "ohhhh I see now!" Scott really seems to have some great long term plans. Now as for the formation of the team, I don't mind having a pile of new characters, as long as the book still feels like Alpha Flight. To me, this book feels like Alpha Flight, so I'm happy as a pig in....the mud :)

Ben

[SwiftFox]

I don't mind having a pile of new characters, as long as the book still feels like Alpha Flight. To me, this book feels like Alpha Flight, so I'm happy as a pig in....the mud :)

My thoughts exactly Ben. Especially with AF, the way the the teams members have shifted and changed so much over the years.... it's not just the characters that MAKE Alpha Flight what it is... It very much feels like AF to me too. (afterall, we're only on issue 3 and no one is getting along...:P)
And I think there was a lot more thought and planning that has gone into these new characters than the ones in Vol. 2 (and some of the ones in Vol. 1)

[Phil]

Yeah, the whole dysfunctional spirit of AF that Byrne wrote so well is definitely in this volume.
Scott's got that aspect working well.

Volume 2 however was very dark, and while it was written well, and was probably apt for that period of time (off the back of x-files etc) it wasn't Alpha Flight.
Had it just been called 'Department H' and featured a completely new cast of Murmur, Radius, Flex etc, it may have been better received.

[DelBubs]

Yeah, the whole dysfunctional spirit of AF that Byrne wrote so well is definitely in this volume.
Scott's got that aspect working well.

I'm in total agreement, I actually like all the characters because they all have unique identities. It was this aspect IMO that made Byrnes run so good, depth of characterisation.



Volume 2 however was very dark, and while it was written well, and was probably apt for that period of time (off the back of x-files etc) it wasn't Alpha Flight.
Had it just been called 'Department H' and featured a completely new cast of Murmur, Radius, Flex etc, it may have been better received.

Not by me, because apart from a little bit of characterisation in regards to Flex, Radius and Murmur (which was basically two dimensional, generic characterisation at best) nobody else shone out. When you equate the ideas that Radius was a Northstar knock off and Murmur an Aurora Wannabee, you are only left with Flex which most Vol 2 fans would probably say was their fave character from the 2 Flight.

So I'm all for AF Vol 3, it ain't what I expected, but it ain't **** :-)

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

Del, you said that you had to wait until nearly the end of Vol. 2 to see any of the original characters... but what about Heather? Puck? Madison?

[Phil]

Not by me, because apart from a little bit of characterisation in regards to Flex, Radius and Murmur (which was basically two dimensional, generic characterisation at best) nobody else shone out. When you equate the ideas that Radius was a Northstar knock off and Murmur an Aurora Wannabee, you are only left with Flex which most Vol 2 fans would probably say was their fave character from the 2 Flight.

Yeah, but if they had been in a title unconnected to AF, with no Alphan's involved I reckon it'd have worked better.
Even take it away from the Dept. H aspect I mentioned earlier and just made it an American government agency experimenting on kids.

(Although for that it wouldn't have had the support of the AF fans behind it from the start, so sales would probably have been less anyway and wouldn't have got as far as it had.)

I think Vol.2 was well written and I did enjoy it, but other than Puck it wasn't AF for me.
It wasn't so much dysfunctional as killing itself from the inside.


Del, you said that you had to wait until nearly the end of Vol. 2 to see any of the original characters... but what about Heather? Puck? Madison?

I know it wasn't directed to me as such, but I'll tack my answer on anyway;

Puck was written well, but Heather wasn't Heather for me, and Madison... well, we only saw him for half of issue one.

[DelBubs]

Phil and MML, I hope this answers both mails. Heather, as Phil said never came across as Heather, she was a character who was a Generic brainwashed type, Heather by name, but not by nature, I personally didn't see anything that identified her as the Heather who dragged AF back from the brink after Macs initial demise. Maddison lasted just past the opening credits and has been a buffoon ever since. It's a bloody injustice if the man never regains his excellent mind and re-joins AF or some other team.

In regards to Puck, very much the same as Heather, Puck has shared wine with Hemmingway, ran the bulls in Pamplona, been to places we can't even imagine. This man is deep in history and character, we saw non of that, IMHO, in vol 2.

To be truthful, IMO, Seagle became so wrapped up in the conspiracy crap that non of the characters came over as likeable, in most cases I didn't even form an opinion of them. So even in an X-Files type book with no Alpha ties, I still can't see Radius, Flex or Murmur holding a readers attention for too long without deeper characterisation.

JMTCW

[varo]

you guys kill me, has everyone totally overlooked the fact that i am probally the greatest detective this side of columbo?


:?

[Weapon Omega]

Although I did enjoy parts of Series 2, I thought the characterization was lacking as well. And yes, although the only new character that did stand out for me was Flex, I thought, given the proper time and character development, Radius could have been a cool character IMO.

[bigbloo]

Hiya guys!

Just finished reading my copy of ANADAF #3 and i liked it, though not as much as i liked #2.

One of the few things that didnt work for me was the fact that the Plodex weren't green (like kozzi, i expected them to be because all of the Collector's collection were green). I'd have to disagree with kozzi's assertion that the Plodex should be aquatic race, though, as its only an assumption based on the drawings in that annual and not a given or spoken fact. It therefore remains open to interpretation.

I get the rationale Mjr Rob gave for the ice fisherman discrepancy, but i feel that even though the script could afford to be vague (since this reflects Walter's thoughs), The drawing/flashback accompanying it should have been true to canon (since to me this doesn't reflect Walters thoughts as much as it is a picture from the past). If the illustration had shown a guy underwater tangled in a net about to pick up the egg, it would have been more effective for me.

All in all though, im happy with the way the charactersand the plot line is developing and am greaty looking forward to #4.

BTW, who else thinks Walt could be under the control of the Plodex and is just out collecting more super heroes for them to dissect? :twisted:

[HappyCanuck]

One of the few things that didnt work for me was the fact that the Plodex weren't green (like kozzi, i expected them to be because all of the Collector's collection were green).

I always thought that the reason the Earth Plodex were green were because their eggs were contaminated by the local fish/plant life.


I'd have to disagree with kozzi's assertion that the Plodex should be aquatic race, though, as its only an assumption based on the drawings in that annual and not a given or spoken fact. It therefore remains open to interpretation.

not only that, but the only reason ppl expect the Plodex to be aquatic is because Marrina, her mate and her squidlets are. That's just because of the contamination the egg went through over 40 000 years (as explained by Byrne).


BTW, who else thinks Walt could be under the control of the Plodex and is just out collecting more super heroes for them to dissect? :twisted:

Hmmm, interesting hypothesis. Never really thought of it, but it does make sence...

[kozzi24]

BTW, who else thinks Walt could be under the control of the Plodex and is just out collecting more super heroes for them to dissect?
I don't think he knowingly is collecting new victims, but that he is collecting new victims. In three issues he doesn't seem tyo have given hints that he's being mind controlled.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I have to agree. If you think about it, Walter very well could have called in the Avengers, or the X-Men, or the Fantastic Four, or any number of former Alpha Flight members/associates. But he didn't. He chose to go for people who, besides Major Mapleleaf and POSSIBLY Yukon Jack, were untrained and had never experienced the superhero lifestyle.

This was foolish of Walter, because of how grave the threat of the Plodex is. The third issue just underscores that point. If the veteran Alphas all ended up captured, how can Walter possibly think that these untrained people will fare any better? My guess is that he's being controlled by the Plodex, somehow, to bring in more victims.

Just my two cents.

[HappyCanuck]

:shock: :shock: :shock: MMJ, I just saw your second signature... that's DISTURBING!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

::Giggles like a schoolgirl.:: Isn't it wonderful?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[HappyCanuck]

::Giggles like a schoolgirl.:: Isn't it wonderful?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

#-o 'Wonderful' isn't EXACTLY the term I'd use... 'Shameless' would be the best one (without setting off the censoring device)... oi... [-X ](*,)

(not that I have a problem with homosexuality (assuming your male), as that would make me the world's biggest hypocrit, or even a healthy facination with a fictional character (god knows I've been there more times than not), but that's a bit.... much in my eyes. Sorry.)

[Ben]

Though I hate to admit it, I have had the passing suspission about Walt being manipulated by the Plodex. Let one go to bring in more. I mean he's not training the newbies, so a bunch of rookies are gonna do what the seasoned vets couldn't....hmmmmmm. Or maybe he's just done his reasearch that well that he's confidant that thier combined abilities are what is needed to save the day....

Ben

[ladymako71]

:shock: :shock: :shock: MMJ, I just saw your second signature... that's DISTURBING!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

I dunno dude. As a slash writer I find it rather tasty...lol

I'm so tempted to scream 'Nice Arse!' right now.

I'll go back in my hole now. ^^

[beetleblack]

Maybe Major Mapleleaf should be renamed Major Studmuffin! That pic is totally and deliciously cheesecake in all it's glory. (Hey if it's good enough for Emma Frost covers it's good enough for AF!)

BTW, who IS in that pic? Is it actually him??? Looks like a pic from one of Marvel's Swimsuit specials.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

Thank you for the kind words on the new banner, folks. I really hope I don't offend anyone (especially Scott!!!) with it, but I thought it was humorous and kinda cute as opposed to offensive... Ben, if you have any objections to it, I'll take it down. I don't wanna piss anyone off. :(

As far as where the picture comes from, I dunno. Magik (from this board and the New Mutants board) makes my banners for me, and he found the picture for me. I suppose I should ask him!

[Ben]

If anyone is offended by the banner, they can let me know through PM, and if that's the case we'll deal with it, but as of yet, no problem.

[Nalyd Psycho]

I'm all for the idea of justifying cheesecake with beefcake. My only complaint about it would be the contrast isn't great, but other than that, go right ahead.

[Magik]

Ugh, I can't believe you actually used that. :laughs:



BTW, who IS in that pic? Is it actually him??? Looks like a pic from one of Marvel's Swimsuit specials.

Honestly? It's Captain America! :laughs: And it is from one of the Swimsuit specials, just re-colored a bit. :) (albeit badly re-colored.. though it's not as bad as it *could* be considering I threw that sucker together in less than twenty minutes. ;)) -- I didn't think he'd actually have the nerve to use it! Oy.

Now I'm going to have to redo it. :D

~ Magik

[ladymako71]

I dunno, I just picked up #3 yesterday and if Walt knows the crap AF has to put up with but is willing to just let this new crop go for broke, I'm leaning on the whole 'possed' theory myself.

[SwiftFox]

I dunno, I just picked up #3 yesterday and if Walt knows the crap AF has to put up with but is willing to just let this new crop go for broke, I'm leaning on the whole 'possed' theory myself.

Especially when he insists they need no training....

[ladymako71]

Especially when he insists they need no training....

Exactly. I mean seriously? MM is the only one really trained in anything..well except Nemesis who just hates everything and has no qualms about hacking it to bits. What is tall, blonde, bespecled, and handsome thinking?

[SwiftFox]

What is tall, blonde, bespecled, and handsome thinking?

.....brains...... must get brains......

[ladymako71]

.....brains...... must get brains......

Well yeah Walt has those too, but I'm with Zuzha and the whole 'french maid's uniform' thing. chick thing I suppose.

(promoted, promoted! I just got promoted! =p)

[SwiftFox]

but I'm with Zuzha and the whole 'french maid's uniform' thing. chick thing I suppose.

Must be.... although I gotta say... the dream sequence.... =P~


(promoted, promoted! I just got promoted! =p)

Welcome to Beta Flight, (hope you survive the experience)

[Ottawa Renegade]

One of the few things that didnt work for me was the fact that the Plodex weren't green (like kozzi, i expected them to be because all of the Collector's collection were green).

I always thought that the reason the Earth Plodex were green were because their eggs were contaminated by the local fish/plant life.

I haven't read the issue where the Plodex are first seen so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the big deal about their colour.

I'm rather white or pinkish in colour. The gentleman that lives across the street from me is a dark brown, however. A lady I work with has sort of a yellowish tinge to her skin. You see where I'm going with this? :wink:

[Ben]

What we see are also pure plodex in thier environment. You can't look past what an environment would do to them when they are hybred. There are also some of the pure plodex that have a yellowish/greenish colour to them.

Ben