Yukon Jack and Snowbird

[bigbloo]

I was ust rereading my copy of ANADAF#4 and i noticed that Yukon Jack and Snowbird have the same eyes. Does that mean he's a demigod too? Or maybe even Narya's son?

Oh, and Snowbird isnt in the confrontation of the two teams in the last page, but that could be just for balance and not really mean anything :)))

[Ben]

Though this would be kinda cool, YJ's whole race has those eyes. They ARE very long lived, near immortal, but I don't think they would be an intire races of godlings.

Ben

[beetleblack]

I seem to remember that before we knew anything about the character of Yukon Jack and just pictures of him that it was rumoured that he might be Snowbird's dead son (because of the eyes.).

Personally I think a romance between this pair would be interesting.

[bigbloo]

Though this would be kinda cool, YJ's whole race has those eyes. They ARE very long lived, near immortal, but I don't think they would be an intire race of godlings.

Maybe the entire race, the king his father, the whole hidden kingdom is a lie? Lobdell has hinted that the grammatically incorrect archaic speech has a reason. Maybe its because the past he believes is fabricated? Sorta like "The Truman Show".

This would explain why the king of a supposedly hidden kingdom would be susceptible to large sums of currency from the "outside world".

[kozzi24]

Snowbird's eyes are not all that uncommon, artistically. In original Excalibur, Meggan's "true form" also had Snowbird eyes

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I'm just hoping that Yukon Jack doesn't turn out to be another Magma. I loathed Fabian Nicieza's raping and pillaging of the Nova Roma storyline, and I'm grateful that Claremont retconned the retcon. Pleeeeeeeease don't let the same thing happen to Yukotujazurjimozoata!

[jay042]

I'm wondering if somehow the Northern Gods and the tribe are connected. Whether they are a tribe that was descended from a previous Earth bound Avatar like Birdy.

[beetleblack]

I'm wondering if somehow the Northern Gods and the tribe are connected. Whether they are a tribe that was descended from a previous Earth bound Avatar like Birdy.

I think that would be pretty interesting and it would be interesting to see how Yukon Jack reacts when face to face with Narya. This would of course make their relationship even more interesting, especially if she commanded him to be her paramour!!!

[bigbloo]

I'm wondering if somehow the Northern Gods and the tribe are connected. Whether they are a tribe that was descended from a previous Earth bound Avatar like Birdy.

I think that would be pretty interesting and it would be interesting to see how Yukon Jack reacts when face to face with Narya. This would of course make their relationship even more interesting, especially if she commanded him to be her paramour!!!

LOL! That would be so we can have a stronger strain of descendants from the gods. Hey... what if the whole village has powers?

[beetleblack]

I'm wondering if somehow the Northern Gods and the tribe are connected. Whether they are a tribe that was descended from a previous Earth bound Avatar like Birdy.

I think that would be pretty interesting and it would be interesting to see how Yukon Jack reacts when face to face with Narya. This would of course make their relationship even more interesting, especially if she commanded him to be her paramour!!!

LOL! That would be so we can have a stronger strain of descendants from the gods. Hey... what if the whole village has powers?

I would certainly like to see more of Yukon Jack's people and his mysterious tribe/village/world - I think there is so much to explore there and I really like the idea of a connection between him and Snowbird. I have to say that I don't really think that Narya has EVER had - what I would conder anyway - a really GOOD storyline!

[Richv1]

Yukon Jack and Snowbird as a couple, From what I remember of the old Snowbird I don't think she would like him much. But the new one who knows? Maybe. It certainly would be interesting.

[beetleblack]

I would like the new Snowbird to be more aware of her goddess heritage and come over as a bit arrogant and more aware of her sexuality (think Grant Morrison's portrayal of Emma Frost).

[Richv1]

Another Emma Frost character noooooo. I liked her old one but I can certainly understand changing it some. But not like Emma's errogant sob attitude.

[jay042]

I would like the new Snowbird to be more aware of her goddess heritage and come over as a bit arrogant and more aware of her sexuality (think Grant Morrison's portrayal of Emma Frost).

I'd rather her be a bit more human.

[Richv1]

Yes more human would be ok as long as she still maintains some of her Goddess personality.

[kozzi24]

Considering the young-attitude reboot of the character, wouldn't it be better if she rediscovered her godhood gradually and attached her own value to it? In her few appearances, this Snowbird has been young and hip. If she is Narya, which I don't think she is, she doesn't seem to have memories of her former life.

[Richv1]

I have yet to see her but sure a young hip Goddess might help attract young male readers.

[bigbloo]

I'd prefer the real Snowbird in Godland or wherever she is with her hubby and son and family.

This new Snowbird can be a clone who ends up being a hip goddess. I like that.

[Richv1]

Hip clone Goddesses hmmm thats different. After the Spider-Man Clone thing I have not really liked clones and now they are doing the same thing in the Hulk a clone here a clone there everywhere a clone. I do not want that in Alpha one clone maybe is ok but no more.

[ladymako71]

y'know I was thinking about this and then my sister sent school pics of her kids...my eldest nephew has YJ's eyes too. He's half polynesian and there is absolutely no discernable colour in his eyes what so ever. They're jet black. And somewhat narrow so it looks like he has pure all black eyes. The other one is is a quater thai and looks like an anime character...caucausian colouring with asian features. I should dig up the pics and let you lot decide. lol

[cmdrkoenig67]

IMHO....if the new Snowbird's a hip kinda girl, she's not Snowbird...period. The Snowbird I knew was an ice queen who gradually became more human, then died. I'd rather she stay dead, then come back as some Kewl bimbo.

Dana

[kozzi24]

IMHO....if the new Snowbird's a hip kinda girl, she's not Snowbird...period. The Snowbird I knew was an ice queen who gradually became more human, then died. I'd rather she stay dead, then come back as some Kewl bimbo.

Dana
I couldn't agree more, but the damage has been done, with some glaring continuity errors, back in an issue of Wolverine. I refer to hip because in her X-Men appearances, she was talking like a 13 year old celebrity watching girl rather than an ice queen goddess. That characterization could be written off to Chuck Austen squishing dog do between his toes, but I think once it's in the published issues, it has to be dealt with.

[Richv1]

Yep once it's in there we are stuck with it. Now if you had someone like chris Claremont he could just forget itv ever happened and make up whatever he wanted. His klast run on the X-Men is what made me cancel getting them. The only thing that wasn't to bad that he came up with wa the new character Sketch who now seems to have been totally forgotten.

[kozzi24]

Claremont's success too often comes in long term as he shapes characters, and it is true he can do hatchet jobs on things that have been done to "his" character in the intirum (sp).
I do NOT like his reversion of Magma to Amara Aquilla, child of (cliche'd Nova Roma and its arenas. I thought Allison Crestmere had potential that was never worked with. Or maybe it's because I never liked the concept of Nova Roma, although I did like Magma in New Mutants.

[Phil]

I couldn't agree more, but the damage has been done, with some glaring continuity errors, back in an issue of Wolverine. I refer to hip because in her X-Men appearances, she was talking like a 13 year old celebrity watching girl rather than an ice queen goddess. That characterization could be written off to Chuck Austen squishing dog do between his toes, but I think once it's in the published issues, it has to be dealt with.

That's a tad harsh overkill isn't it?

She only ever appeared once!
In X-men Unlimited, and only had a few lines.

Yes the gods line was glaringly bad, but she's hardly "hip"

[kozzi24]

I got a definite sense of a young hip character from Austen's treatment. And I accept it fully as long as it gets established that Chuck Austen wasn't writing the Snowbird we knew so glaringly out of character, but was establishing this Snowbird as a NEW Snowbird, not Narya.
I was trying to be funny in the dog do bit in saying Austen made a mistake. I will reiterate that he has done some things I've really liked, but none of his work that involved Alpha has been in that category.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I have to disagree about Magma/Amara. The Allison Crestmere retcon was not only a bad idea, but it was executed very poorly. It not only butchered Amara's character, but Selene's as well. Selene was not meant to be a 'modern' character until the New Mutants' arrival in Nova Roma demonstrated to her that she was not a unique being. In effect, she learned of the existence of mutants for the first time. And to turn around and have Selene manipulate plane-crash survivors into thinking that they're lost Roman colonists... not something Selene would do. It's not in her character to do something so pointless. She's a woman of action.

And as for Magma herself... I personally like Nova Roma. It's a tiny piece of ancient times, and adds to the wonderful variety that is the Marvel universe. For anyone who thinks that the idea of a lost Roman/Incan colony at the headwaters of the Amazon is a stupid/unbelievable idea... well, I could say the same thing about damn near EVERYTHING in Marvel. People shooting beams out of their eyes? Shape-shifting demigoddesses? Alien empires of over a million worlds that can't seem to conquer this one? Baaaah. :lol:

Now, for the Snowbird bit. I also disagree with this "young hip" characterization about her due to Austen. Granted, he did write her out of character, but I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into it. I doubt very much that Austen thought as deeply about her as you did when he wrote that one appearance. Her lingo was hardly "hip" as you define it. I just don't see where you got this from.

And as for Alpha's treatment under Austen... I liked it. For starters, I got to see classic characters again, and be shown that in a universe that becomes more X-centric (no pun intended) every day, Alpha Flight is still a force to be reckoned with. I hear people just railing against the fact that they wore "stupid-looking" armor in their fight with the Juggernaut, and *****ing and moaning and pleading that it won't be permanent. But if you READ the story, you'll realize that the armor was constructed specifically for Alpha Flight to fight the Hulk. Alpha Flight knew that they would be fighting the Juggernaut, and had already had more than one encounter with the behemoth, so they probably surmised (correctly) that they should go into the situation prepared to take him down.

So the armor wasn't all that attractive. So what? I thought all three of them looked spiffy in it. Gave Alpha Flight a more modern edge. And that's nothing that you'll see me complain about.

[Richv1]

Yes I agree using the armor to give them a better chance against Juggernaunt was the right thing to do. Why not they are not stupid enough to just leave it sitting there if they think it can help.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Now, for the Snowbird bit. I also disagree with this "young hip" characterization about her due to Austen. Granted, he did write her out of character, but I think you're reading waaaaaay too much into it. I doubt very much that Austen thought as deeply about her as you did when he wrote that one appearance. Her lingo was hardly "hip" as you define it. I just don't see where you got this from.

Oh no....I MEANT I didn't want to see Snowbird as young and hip like some other posters have expressed they want to see. I didn't mean to imply that Austen made her "young and hip". I didn't like the out of character lines in the XM unlimited issue, but I don't think he portrayed her as "Hip"...he just wrote some really inaccurate dialogue for her.

Her characterization in the Wolverine issues by Tieri(with Mauvais as a villain)however, was spot on...which I know was before Austen, but it portrays her very differently. Tieri wrote her as the noble demigoddess....which is how she should be written. She was also written very well in the later Wolverine issues, when Dept. H was infested with a demon and Shaman and Wolvie had to save Alpha from it. I wouldn't be surprised if the gods of the north wiped Narya's mind of the knowledge of her husband and child too, in an effort to use her as a weapon against the Great Beasts without the hinderance of those memories. I believe they would do whatever is necessary to acomplish their goals. If that makes them sound cold? Well....why wouldn't they be....they're not human, after all.


As Rich said "Yep once it's in there we are stuck with it." I have to disagree. Austen may have screwed up on some dialogue in a couple of panels(the artist also screwed up in making her eyes a normal blue), but it can be ignored...and Snowbird could be written better by Lobdell or whoever down the road.

Dana

[Richv1]

Well I wasn't the original person to say "Once its in there we are stuck with it" but I did agree with it that it is there in print. I didn't say that it could not be explained away or that future issues of a comic could not portray it differently. Anything can be changed and a good writer can create a story to effect those changes.

[kozzi24]

Explain it as a young-minded girl with the powers of a demi-goddess trying to find herself?

[cmdrkoenig67]

I don't see any reason for an explanation...like I said it can be ignored. It looks like Scott is going to ignore it and write her as she should be(if the Plodex Snowbird is any clue)....if so...I say, YAY!!!!!

Dana

[Phil]

Explain it as a young-minded girl with the powers of a demi-goddess trying to find herself?

Why oh why are people trying to make this incarnation of Snowbird a girl/a new character. The body is irrelevant, it's the soul that hasn't changed. The body is merely a shell for the form of the Gods' chosen herald on Earth.

There were two inconsistant lines, in a fricking issue of X-Men Unlimited.
It counts for diddly squat.

[Richv1]

Phil well said.

[kozzi24]

Is Diddly Sqaut going to be Austen's new pen name?

[DelBubs]

Austens new pen name will be Sandra Bullock, and he'll reprise one of her roles. He shall be called Miss DeContinuity.

[kozzi24]

I don't know that he'd change his gender in his name like that. How 'bout Phil O. Bullock?

[Richv1]

Hey Jeff maybe we could have a super-hero that does change its gender all the time. Call them Gender-Bender! What powers would it have?
Actually there was a hero Starhawk that changed back and forth and also Cloud. Oh well we can have a Canadian version.

[DelBubs]

I don't know that he'd change his gender in his name like that. How 'bout Phil O. Bullock?
Full Of Bollacks, yea that works for me

[kozzi24]

Hey Jeff maybe we could have a super-hero that does change its gender all the time. Call them Gender-Bender! What powers would it have?
Actually there was a hero Starhawk that changed back and forth and also Cloud. Oh well we can have a Canadian version.
Most suitable power choice is metamorphy, ala Reed Richard or Dough Boy

[firestar]

maybe it's only a coincidence.

[DelBubs]

maybe it's only a coincidence.
I have no idea what this thread is actually about anymore Firestar, but from the monicker, I gather your a Warriors fan?

[ladymako71]

maybe it's only a coincidence.
I have no idea what this thread is actually about anymore Firestar, but from the monicker, I gather your a Warriors fan?

Yeah I was thinking that too.... (the new warriors bit ^^)

eh something about Snowy and YJ being kin or something? hypothosis?

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

I doubt that they're related. In fact, who's to say that they're in any way aware of each other? Snowbird and the lineage she hails from hardly represent the totality of native Canadian history and myth, no? That would be like saying that the trickster god Coyote of Cheyenne and Apache myth would automatically be well-acquainted with the various spirits and gods of the Iroquous.

And personally, I think it would be more interesting if they weren't already aware of each other or their place in the halls of mythological power. That would make things more interesting. Why tie everyone together in a neat little package?

[Legerd]

Hey Jeff maybe we could have a super-hero that does change its gender all the time. Call them Gender-Bender! What powers would it have?
Actually there was a hero Starhawk that changed back and forth and also Cloud. Oh well we can have a Canadian version.

I thought we did have a character like that. He/she was called Sasquatch.:lol:

[birdygirl]

I have a strange feeling that Snowbird and Yukon Jack must be distant kin. After all, look at Yukon Jack's eyes, and his remark about being a "god among men". Is it his whole race or just him?

But if they're not related, I like Beetleblack's idea of Snowbird commanding Yukon Jack to be her paramour. I think Scott Lobdell may have set up some chemistry between them in the last issue, (#5). Yukon Jack and Snowbird would definitely make an interesting couple.

And I'd like to see Snowbird eventually have another husband and child. And have the writer get it right this time! :wink:

[bigbloo]

Good to see ya, Sue! :)

Im now actually kinda more sold on the idea that Yukon Jack is Snowbird's son, and that the villagers are there to keep him safe. his inability to harm any animals native to the North may be to keep him from inadvertently killing a mother that he doesn't even remember...

[birdygirl]

Interesting theory, bigbloo! And good to see you, too! :D

I've noticed that a lot of fans seem to believe that Snowbird's son has survived in one form or another, (such as Snowbird's ressurrected body having been taken from his DNA, or his being Yukon Jack). And I'm all in favor of his being revived. His awesome potential (suggested in Alpha Flight volume 1, issues 36-38, and 44) has never really been given the chance to develop.

[Phil]

I don't think they're related or connected at all to be fair.

[Richv1]

I'm with you I don't think they are related either. But since Yukon Jack can't harm a Canadian animal does that apply to Canadian people since they are animals to?

[kozzi24]

I'm with you I don't think they are related either. But since Yukon Jack can't harm a Canadian animal does that apply to Canadian people since they are animals to?
Very good point, Rich

[DelBubs]

Was it stated that YJ can't harm animals, or was it more a case of him taking on the hunters as they kill for fun. I don't think the dietary habits of YJ and his kin has been covered, or did I miss a couple of speech bubbles somewhere?

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

IIRC, Del, Yukon Jack stated in #5 that he can't harm a "beast of the land," which can be interpreted in more than one way. Just Canadian animals? Animals in general? Who knows?

[DelBubs]

Very ambiguous statement I thinks. What happens if a Moose on pleasure bent approaches in an inappropriate way. Then you have the concept of whether man is beast/animal or higher lifeform. Must re-read #5. Cheers MML

[kozzi24]

Unpleasant image now stuck in my head, and that loincloth ain't going to be much barrier.

What happens if a Moose on pleasure bent

For something more "realistic" (at least have a chance of happening, can Jack fight a Wendigo? Is a Wendigo man or beast?

[birdygirl]

Well, as we know by now, as of Alpha Flight volume 3, issue 12, Snowbird and Yukon Jack officially became a couple! I can't say I'm surprised to see that. My only complaints are with the rushed ending: we didn't get to see anything of their courtship or wedding. And I was also slightly put off by the mention of Yukon Jack's divorcing his "other wives"; I thought it made him look like an irresponsible playboy. :roll: My other disappointment is that there is no mention of their having children. Not that it's really necessary to the book, but I always liked the idea of Snowbird as a mother, (but maybe it's just me :roll: ).

I'm going to have to admit something a little shocking, considering Alpha's history. I always thought Doug Thompson was basically a nice guy, but I also felt he was a little out of his depth in dealing with Snowbird. (This was especially true in AF, volume 1, issues 35-38, where Snowbird's family showed their disapproval of her having married a mortal.) That said, I get the feeling that Birdie's god relatives approved of her match with Yukon Jack. At least, there was no mention of anything horrific happening to them. Any ideas on why this is, people?

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...And I was also slightly put off by the mention of Yukon Jack's divorcing his "other wives"; I thought it made him look like an irresponsible playboy....I'm going to have to admit something a little shocking, considering Alpha's history. I always thought Doug Thompson was basically a nice guy, but I also felt he was a little out of his depth in dealing with Snowbird. (This was especially true in AF, volume 1, issues 35-38, where Snowbird's family showed their disapproval of her having married a mortal.) That said, I get the feeling that Birdie's god relatives approved of her match with Yukon Jack.

Me, too, to all of the above.

RETCON ALERT: To me, there is a reason for Doug's dramatic shift from a nice guy to a raving lunatic [he-who-should-not-be-mentioned's version]: [b]Doug is possessed by a Great Beast.

[Barnacle13]

IIRC, Del, Yukon Jack stated in #5 that he can't harm a "beast of the land," which can be interpreted in more than one way. Just Canadian animals? Animals in general? Who knows?

This leaves him wide open to beat his fish! :lol:

[Barnacle13]

I for one don't think the "divorce" of Yuk's wives was necessary. Look at mythology. The gods are notorious for having multiple wives and lovers. If he's a god, why constrain himself to the boundaries man has set?

[jay042]

More of an ego thing on Yuke's part. After all if he's worthy of an actual demi-goddess why waste his time with mere mortal women?

Or maybe Birdy's the monogamous type.