#5 Discussion Thread : Spoilers Aplenty

[DelBubs]

Well I actually got it on the day it came out over here, first time with the new series.

All I'm doing here is opening the thread, don't wanna say to much until more people have the issue, but I will say that IMO, it's probablt the best issue so far. The obligatory old versus the new battle, but with a twist. Puck against daddy Puck :-) Some of the one liners are just right on the button. Anyways ...

[Phil]

Again, each issue outdoes the previous one in my eyes.

The recap page has a great opening paragraph, which to me pretty much sums up all my feelings of the comics industry and it's 'reviews' these days.
I love being part of the 'Ethernet buzz' ;)
Some nice little questions and hints in there too.

Sasquatch flipping out about the ship seemed interesting to me.
I'm wondering if we'll see any more of this behaviour or if he was generally just letting off steam.
(pity about the messed up placement of a speech balloon at the top of this page btw)

As Del's stated the turn about on the classic team face off is a nice touch.
And again, a pretty accurate riff on comics generally.

I like the way the ANAD team react when faced with 'the original' team.
The lines and behaviour seem natural and give the originals some respect, as they deserve.
Nemesis comes into her own here, which is great.
I really enjoyed the scene with Centennial taking on 'Guardian.' For me it just seemed nice to see the old man kick his ass.
The Puck/Puck dialogue was a nice touch too.
Ooh err @ Nemesis' new friend... I've got some theories but I'll keep them to myself...
Yukon Jack's revelations confirmed some ideas I think we all had, but wihtout disappointment, cliché or giving too much away. Interest nicely stoked.
And yet again, a great ending....

The issue was all in chronological order this time, so hopefully that'll shut some whiners up, and the humour was subtle with more intelligent one-liners. This really does deserve to rise up the charts, and hopefully will start to.

Clayton's art is gorgeous.
Just the right amount of detail needed in places.
Not too childish, not too dark.
I'm starting to think of his Sasquatch as the definitive one already. He seems to be the first artist to fit real emotion into Walt.
The plodex 'child' is stunning as well.

I really need to try and buy some pages from him one day.

Overall - The best read I've had in the last 30 days, easily.

[DelBubs]

There is so much about this issue to like. Phil has covered most of it.

Re Sas, he did sem to flip pretty quickly, but I didn't get a hint of anything untoward in him doing so. Just seemed to me he was letting of steam.

That bit with Nemesis and her sword intriqued me, I can't recall it being said that her sword is essential to her well being. In the Deadly Ernest story she passed it on to Puck to do the deed while she watched over the dead. Maybe more about her is forthcoming.

Puck 2 seems to be warming to Sas, maybe I'm being influenced by other threads, but I'm getting a hint of a spark there. I like that the Eh? joke that causes so much fan ill feeling is being ridiculed, especially during the 'Puck 2' 'Plodex Puck' fight. That bit as to why Eugene is called Puck was a nice little interlude. Another neat bit was the homage to AF vol 1 "What are we going to do with 13 Alphans?", but it also should have suggested to Sas that all was not as it should be. Only 12 Alphans, but a doppleganger with retained memories would have repeated what Puck had said all those years back. A very nice touch.

Re Marrina's Kids, they look awesome, can't wait to see what Scott has in store for them.

The characterisation of the five newbies has been subtle and not over stated, and now I can't point to any of them and say the are an uninteresting character. I wanna know more about all.

As Phil said, each issue betters the last, so the finale to the first arc should be a doozey and I'm just irked a little that I have to wait another month.

[Phil]

It's a good day when 2 Brits get to read an issue before the general population of America 8)

[DelBubs]

Too true Phil, but being Brits, it's not as if we are GONNA GLOAT over the fact :-)

[ladymako71]

I should kick the pair of yas for rubbing it in! lol

I won't though...I pre oredered this one so I just have to wait for it to show up in me mail box.

[SwiftFox]

I agree with pretty much all the points you guys made. I was very impressed and very happy with the ish. I can't recall anything in Vol. 1 about Nemesis and needing her sword, but it did come up in ... issue 2... or maybe 1...

[Nalyd Psycho]

The issue was great fun, nice progression as we see the Plodex's plan. Get som good fight scenes as well as strong character moments. Henry's art continues to rock. Just a good book all round.

[kozzi24]

I thought the sword was part of Nemesis' power, and perhaps the source. I thought the sword was the means with which she could fly, f'instance. Not sure how Plodex Boy could have picked it up by the blade, but I'm willing to assume he was being very careful.

I found Walt's explosion about who the FF and Avengers get versus AF and the ship to be very in character. Walt is something of a bully: High School athlete turned pro, bigger than everyone, and also very smart. He always kind of denied his Jewish heritage maybe because he thought other people saw that as an imperfection.

To put it diplomatically, Walt's self worth was always elevated, so I think the explosion about the ship is sourced from his feeling that if he's on Alpha, Alpha is automatically A-list (which they are in terms of power, but not just because of Walt) and that he deserves an a-list villain because heroes are only as good as their adversaries.

The humor this issue was perfect, with nothing drawn out for the sake of a single joke that may or may not work.

It should have been a given, at least for someone as smart as Walt, that the if the originals were free, the duplicates would not be tied up in such a way, but Nemesis' strike was very appropriate.

I did like issue 4 a little better than this one. 4 had deeper characterization, and 5 does have a fictional-world-consistency problem.
A very fine issue overall.

[varo]

awesome issue. i know i'm partial but this series has gotten better and better since #1.

claytons art is the best since jim lee pencilled the book and scotts stories are great, it has been worth the time invested, this is by no means a instant gratification book, it is old school in that it is taking it's time with developing characters. i am loving it, i just hope everyone else, besides us die hard alpha fans, is as well.


marvel, renew this series for another 24 issues!

[Axelrooni]

You gotta be proud of your nation when their superteam consists of a giant throw rug, a bartender, a 90-yr old coma patient, an anarchist zombie, a tribal shut-in, and an RCMP officer named Major Mapleleaf. Tehe. I know I would.

Gahhh... I just bought the issue this afternoon, and I loved it. Problem is, I’m probably the most impatient person ever. I was never interested in Alpha Flight, and truth be told, it wasn’t anything really phenomenal that got me interested (I liked the way Puck II looked in Henry’s pencils – I’m so dirty).

But now I think I’m more or less hooked on this, especially for Zuzha and Jack. Seeing the old Alphans (real or not) was nice, and Snowbird interests me. But I still have no clue as to what Yukon Jack’s powers are at all! Does anyone have any clue as to what he can do, besides generate his own light source?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Spoilers ahead....








I liked this issue much more than the last four, which in my opinion dragged terribly and didn't do much to progress the story or give us more info on the new characters. This issue certainly picked up the pace.

The art was great, Guardian and co. looked very good(Plodex-Snowbird's eyes were even drawn correctly....except she's not supposed to have eyebrows..oh well). I noticed Shaman had his medicine pouch, instead of Earthmover....I wonder what that's all about?

There seemed to be a huge inconsistancy in the fight scene. The Plodex-Heather is killed by Nemesis....next page has Guardian blasting N for killing his "wife"....a few ads, then we see the two teams square off, Plodex-Heather is there with the others, bloody, but alive???...She's then shown fighting Major mapleleaf and on the next page....dead again?...or still dead?....Huh? It left me a bit confused as to what happened.

I also enjoyed the Puck/Puck fight.

The ending was good...I love me a cliffhanger(or opening-floor-hanger as it were).

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

....except she's not supposed to have eyebrows..oh well).

ACtually, if you wanna get technical, according to Byrne, she DOES have eyebrows... it's where her hairline starts (look at the first page of AFV.1.24 and the issue where she goes to live with Doug: both have her sans tiara/mask/whateveritssupposedtobe)

[Adam]

There seemed to be a huge inconsistancy in the fight scene. The Plodex-Heather is killed by Nemesis....next page has Guardian blasting N for killing his "wife"....a few ads, then we see the two teams square off, Plodex-Heather is there with the others, bloody, but alive???...She's then shown fighting Major mapleleaf and on the next page....dead again?...or still dead?....Huh? It left me a bit confused as to what happened.

I attribute that to the "we're notoriously hard to kill" line.

When Guardian blasted Nemesis he was still under the assumption that everyone thought he was the real Guardian. So even though he probably knew Heather was not "dead" yet, his reaction would be "in character" if he was still trying to convince the new Alphans he was real.

[cmdrkoenig67]

That's a good explanation, Adam. The "dead/not dead/dead again" thing threw me...I was left thinking...what's going on?

Dana

[Ben]

I finally got my issue. LOVED it, will do my review in full tomorrow.

Ben

[Phil]

THATS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH BOY!
YOU WILL NOT GO OUT AND CHAT UP FRENCH WOMEN, YOU WILL STAY HERE AND WRITE A REVIEW!!!

NOW!!!

:twisted:

[Ben]

awwww, but Phiiiiiiiil.....fin, be that way, here it is"


__________________________


Ben's Bit...or some such thing...AF#5

This issue was good, I liked it. Stuff happened. There was a fight between old AF and new...and all the old members are dead...or something. There's a little green man.

a bunch of leaves for this one


__________________________


Now can I go chat up Francophone women? ;)

Ben

[DelBubs]

Ben's Bit...or some such thing...AF#5

This issue was good, I liked it. Stuff happened. There was a fight between old AF and new...and all the old members are dead...or something. There's a little green man.

This little green man, was it Shrek? Is Donkey really Sasquatch?, Is Northstar Prince Charming? IS SOMEONE GOING TO BRING ME MY MEDICATION, OR WHAT ?

[Ben]

The reviews of #5 have begun

Somewhat mixed review at comix-fan:
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28957

Ben

[Ottawa Renegade]

The reviews of #5 have begun

Somewhat mixed review at comix-fan:
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28957

Ben

I'm a part of the group mentioned in the first paragraph of this camics that had a number of complaints about the book. Mind you, since I've bought them all, I'm also part of the second group.

I bought this one a little later than usual (two copies left at my store, too!) and I agree with most of the positive comments I've read here, but I'd like to add to one from your review.

"The humour in this issue was more subtle than in past issues, for the most part; but no less effective."

In my opinion, for that very reason, it was MORE effective. I find the humour fails when it's outrageous. Sasquatch on a dance video game used as an entrance portal...is not funny, it's just stupid, I'm sorry to say (still in my opinion). It takes away from the story for me because it makes no sense. But Guardian asking MML whether he's serious about his name or the very same MML being allergic to feathers is funny for me because it's real. Many of us had the same reaction to MML's name at first so we can relate.

[Ottawa Renegade]

The reviews of #5 have begun

Somewhat mixed review at comix-fan:
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28957

Ben

Not to start reviewing reviews, but...

"Also, Centennial mentions watching The View in the dayroom, when prior to Sasquatch’s visit he had been in a coma for a number of yeas and had probably never even heard of The View."

Centennial didn't join right away though. I believe that probably a couple of days passed between meetings. I don't know that Centennial has much more to do than watch TV. I don't think it's too much to believe that he caught a couple of episodes and liked it right away. Hell, I fell in love with the Trailer Park Boys and Most Extreme Elimination Challenge right away!

[bigbloo]

Hiya Guys! Chiming in late, just managed to get the comic...

Really great issue! with fantastic characterizations of the originals, even if they were just copies.... :)

I'm getting the feeling that the couple Scott hinted at will be Rutherford and Nemesis. Just hints and conjecture, but werent they born in the same era? Is it possible that they knew each other before? Maybe they were old flames?

[bigbloo]

Oh yeah, could Plodex Puck's 13 alphans comment be a reference to Marrina? *hopefu look*

[SwiftFox]

Oh yeah, could Plodex Puck's 13 alphans comment be a reference to Marrina? *hopefu look*

Colour me stupid... but isn't this another Giant Size X-men #1 reference??? After the newbies have rescued the originals, and they're flying back in the jet, doesn't someone make that comment???

[DelBubs]

I might have mentioned this elsewhere, but to me, Pucks'What are we going to do with 13 Alphans' was an indication that all was not right with the original Alphans we saw in #5. Puck used the same statement in AF vol 1 #90 after the Building Blocks arc. I took this as the Plodex Puck using a retained memory that had been copied over.

Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but there ya go :-)

[varo]

i thought he just mis-counted considering there was only 12, but what do i know?

[DelBubs]

That was my original thought, but it struck a chord with me, so I dug out the aforementioned #90, the quote by Plodex Puck was almost verbatim to originals Pucks comment. Maybe if Scott can get past the difficulties he's been having getting on the forum, he can clear it up.

[Ottawa Renegade]

i thought he just mis-counted considering there was only 12, but what do i know?

I recall once a Simpsons writer (I believe) was asked why something was done out of continuity and the asnwer was basically "because it's funny". I'd be willing to bet Scott Lobdell just threw it in...because it's a little wnk to the past and he just felt like it!

[kozzi24]

Maybe a joke from Scott on many levels, including being another GSX-M reference, a retro Puck reference, and a comics insider thing of Scott's 1st assignment to Alpha, where his proposal was the only one to pare down the team?

[DelBubs]

I think there was speculation that it was a homage to GS-XM when FabNic used it originally. For your next question, can anyone name the 13 Alphans FabNic was referring to when he first used it?

[bigbloo]

I think there was speculation that it was a homage to GS-XM when FabNic used it originally. For your next question, can anyone name the 13 Alphans FabNic was referring to when he first used it?

1. Mac
2. Heather
3. Puck
4. Diamond Lil
5. Aurora
6. Witchfire
7. Windshear
8. Shaman
9. Sasquatch
10. Purple Girl
11. Manikin
12. Goblyn
13. Nemesis

I think...

[DelBubs]

Bloo Said
1. Mac = Correct
2. Heather = Correct
3. Puck = Correct
4. Diamond Lil = Correct
5. Aurora = Correct
6. Witchfire = Correct
7. Windshear = Correct
8. Shaman = Correct
9. Sasquatch = Correct
10. Purple Girl = Correct
11. Manikin = Nope
12. Goblyn = Nope
13. Nemesis = Nope

Not bad though, 10/13 off the top of your head is mighty fine.

[Legerd]

Would the last three be: Box, Talisman and Northstar?

[DelBubs]

Would the last three be: Box, Talisman and Northstar?
Yup, that's the lot. At the time, Talisman was not in the pic cos she had damaged her brain fighting the Masters constructs and the forces of her fathers pouch. Pathway was in hospital after her run in with Wildchild and there was some problems regarding who actually held guardianship of her and Goblyn.

[kozzi24]

That was another potentially interesting plot thread that has since been lost

[Legerd]

That was another potentially interesting plot thread that has since been lost

Damn straight Kozzi! Far too many of those thanks to the frequent writer shuffles on the first series and the short lifespan of the second. Let's hope SL avoids that this time 'round. [-o<

[ladymako71]

it finally came! #5 which I pre-ordered FINALLY came! yay!

the border held it up for whatever ungodly reasons for QUITE some time going by the date stamp on the package....stupid bloody border patrol crap...

my fave panel in the whole thing? ahahahaha one plodex snowbird owl rip off disappearing into the mitt of big walking orange shag carpet! I damn near choked laughing at that!