New Avengers...

[Mystic]

I've just overlooked the previews of the Avengers re-launch stuff, and came across the description for 'New Avengers':


Written by Brian Michael Bendis, art and cover by David Finch.

"New Avengers," part 1 of 5. After the devastating destruction of the original Avengers just what sort of threat to the world could persuade Captain America to assemble an all-new team? And after the events of Avengers Disassembled, who could possibly be on this team? How does Cap, Iron Man, Spider-Man and Wolverine sound? Get ready for the first of a proposed 500-issue run that signals an all-new era, as Bendis and Finch join with you, the fervent faithful, for the launch of the all-new ongoing Avengers series.

32 pages, $2.25, in stores on Nov. 24.


Wolverine is now in another book!!!! Oy vey, my opinion of Marvel is spiraling downwards straight to Hades. As if relaunching ALL the Avengers titles (with the exception of Thor) wasn't bad enough, now it's like adding salt to the wound by making Wolverine a member (as if he doesn't have enough books focusing on him).

What are your thoughts on this??

-Mystic

[Ben]

I totally agree. It's like they are miliking the one character to death. How many places can the guy be at once? They should just rename Marvel comics to "Wolverine Comics - Featuring The X-Men"

I like the idea of a totally fresh roster for the Avengers...but they really seem to have just grabbed the money names for this team :x

Ben

[Mystic]

From what I can see of the picture, the original Spider-Woman is also a member. There're two people in the very back of the group that I don't recognize. Possibly Quicksilver and Vision, but I'm not too sure.

As far as Wolverine, I think I have had an 'over-saturation' with this character, and right now it's making me sick! Scott, please-please-PLEASE leave that character out of Alpha Flight. It's bad enough I almost want to stop getting Marvel altogether because of this blatant use of this character.

I understand that, somewhere in my mind, Logan belongs to Alpha Flight. But considering how many titles he's in, it just seems rediculous. And I apologize if I'm ranting and raving about this, but this really is something that could be the last straw with me. I've been so fed up with Marvel before, giving them up and moving on, yet they keep pulling me back in with Alpha Flight. Yet I honestly think that if I give up Marvel this time...that's it. Alpha Flight or no Alpha Flight...

MHO,
-Mystic

[Phil]

The people in the back are Luke Cage and The Sentry.

[beetleblack]

The new New Avengers line-up doesn't really do anything for me. And why only ONE woman on the whole team??? That's crap.

Totally agree with the whole Wolverine thing, and how odd is it having both Spider-Man AND Spider-Woman on one team????

Also they are relaunching Thunderbolts but have no idea who are members of that.

Oh and it may not be Tony Stark in the Iron Man armour apparently.

Any news on the Young Avengers or Teen Avengers or whatever they're called? Is it true that they will be the Runaways?

Oh and is the Scarlet Witch going the way of all flesh???? I seriously hope not, I know a lot of fans who love her. I would like to see her and Captain America tutoring the Teen Avengers - in a similar way to Emma Frost and Banshee in Generation X.

[Sir John A.]

Seems like they're turning them into the Marvel version of the JLA.

[Phil]

Also they are relaunching Thunderbolts but have no idea who are members of that.

Mach IV
Songbird
Atlas
Radioactive Man
Speed Demon
The Eel
Joystick
Captain Marvel


Any news on the Young Avengers or Teen Avengers or whatever they're called? Is it true that they will be the Runaways?

Nope, Runaways is coming back for a second volume soon.

[kozzi24]

If you don't like an Avengers membership, remember: it WILL change.

Wolverine is way overexposed, and shouldn't be in every X-Book. I think his tenure on Avengers will be a short one. He should always be welcome in Alpha, as a former member and as a sales boost. There's less reason for him to appear now though, considering those he is closest to are not on the team.

[Canucklehead]

It's obvious Bendis liked these characters chemistry while writing Secret War. I'm just afraid Avengers will turn into a best heros in Marvel together, dressed in their civis talking back and forth the whole series. I doubt Wolverine will stay as a full member past the first arc, but will return from time to time when, like said above, a sales boost is needed. Same for Spider-Man. I don't see both Spider-People on the same roster. Plus Spider-Man has always been solo and seems awkward on any team.

D.

[Ben]

a saw a little blurb-interview-thing on the space channel with Bendis saying he wanted to take the character's he thought were the best in the MU and form them into the Avengers. He said he liked that better than using a bunch of b list, or c list characters.

I was going start buying Avengers again with this rebuild, but the characters have I think, changed my mind :( I'll try #1 before making a final decision though.

Ben

[beetleblack]

Also they are relaunching Thunderbolts but have no idea who are members of that.

Mach IV
Songbird
Atlas
Radioactive Man
Speed Demon
The Eel
Joystick
Captain Marvel


Any news on the Young Avengers or Teen Avengers or whatever they're called? Is it true that they will be the Runaways?

Nope, Runaways is coming back for a second volume soon.

The last I knew Captain Marvel was a black woman - is she now a he? And if so what happened to her? (Does that make any sense at all!)

Apart from that I have little or no idea of who these characters are! Slightly concerned that some of the characters have rather strange names. And what does Joystick do????

And yeah, like Ben, I was going to give this title [Avengers] a go once the new team were in place - but now I'm really not so sure!

[Phil]

She's still around, I think she's called Photon now.

Captain Marvel is the son of the original Captain Marvel, who spun out of Avengers Forever.

[Mystic]

Yeah, the female Captain Marvel became Photon at the beginning of her limited series, which came out in the mid-nineties (I believe)..

-Mystic

[oneyoungman]

"meh" is the only word that comes to mind when I think of the New Avengers.

[PWalk]

This reminds me of a few years back when they had to bring in Spidey, THe Hulk, Wolverine, and Ghost Rider to be the new "Fantastic Four". Anyone remember that? It was horrible and only meant to drive sales of a couple of really crappy issues.

As for this "New Avengers" I've mentioned before that the only reason I ever go back to a comic shop is for AF. I haven't read another comic in over 10 years now. A relaunch would be interesting to read that way I could be there at the beginning but this line up just stinks.

If I wanted to read JLA I'd read JLA. :roll:

[kozzi24]

Is the entire line-up that bad?
Keep in mind here that I am one who doesn't like it as much when the team is comprised mostly of the founfing members and Cap. I like seeing B characters in the Avengers.
I am not crazy about this line-up because it is writer-driven, with a "whole new" bit rather than a gradual change of members.
Spider-Man has been a member before. I don't mind seeing him short term, but I'm wondering if the Avengers are still paid. Pete and MJ could use the extra bucks, and it would be interesting to see how Peter Parker would feel about being paid for being a hero.
Wolverine is just inappropriate. If they're going to be smart about it, he will be a short term member and used themeatically to show that his style is not Avengers material.
Spider-Woman 1 is needless fanboy stuff in my opinion. She lost most of her powers and gave up the identity. I didn't care for Byrne's SW 3 and did not follow the series, but I was a big fan of Julia Carpernter and would like to see this character restored.
Luke Cage is precisely the type of B character who has done well with the Avengers, so I do have an "about time" attitude for his membership.
Cap kind of IS the Avengers. I've always liked it when he was not the chair, but a field leader by natural deference when on active missions.
Iron Man can be either interesting or trite. I am very give or take on his membership at any given point, but I'm biased because I do not particularly care for Tony Stark as a "person". Where Cap leads naturally, Stark forced himself on people with a "my way or highway" attitude.
I am most eager to see the Sentry. The limited series and the specials were quite good in my opinion, and the character was built with a lot of things I find interesting. If done well, he could be the breakout character of the book.

[kozzi24]

And that not all of those characters are even in the first issue....

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ah-HA! LOL...I knew we'd disagree on something eventually, Kozzi.

I love that Jessica Drew is back as Spider-Woman(I was a big fan of her series back in the late seventies/early eighties).

I think they crippled Julia Carpenter, though(I could be wrong about that)...the last time I saw her(in the new Spider-Woman series), she was in a wheelchair. I was indifferent to Julia as SW(mainly because I was a fan of Jessica), but absolutely hated the kid Spider-Woman(she's dead, BTW).

Dana

[Barnacle13]

This is what I liked so much about Avengers West Coast, probably my second favorite book. They were comprised largely of B list heroes. I think it's also what made Alpha Flight work in the early days. Once we got in to C list heroes the title lost its punch. I'm a huge Julia Carpenter fan. Never cared much for the original Spider-Woman and never picked up a Spider-Woman 3 book. Even having a second string leader was a lot of the charm of WCA. Hawkeye, while an Avenger, had a different way of dealing with struggles than the shining bastion of democracy, Captain America. I really like the fact that , USAgent, a poor man's cap was on the team and never quite good enough to garner respect. So many great characters out there hanging in limbo. Kinda sad!

[Phil]

I enjoyed #1

[HappyCanuck]

This is one of the pitfalls of living in the middle of [explititive deleted] nowhere....

Actually, the premise behind New Avengers looks interesting enough to pick up an issue or two, but, like it's predecessor, not sure if I'd pick it up regularly.

[kozzi24]

Original spider-woman before my super-hero time. I had liked Julia's single motherhood; brought a bit to the character

[cmdrkoenig67]

True....Jess was born the 1930's, played along side Philip Masters(the future Puppet Master), as a child; she was poisoned by radiation and saved by her father's spider serum; her mother was killed and her father left her with the High Evolutionary; she grew up among the New Men on Wundagore until they left Earth; out on her own, she killed her first boyfriend by accident with her venomblast and ended up joining Hydra. As a Hydra agent, she was sent to kill Nick Fury, but he convinced her to rethink her life, she quit Hydra. It's quite a backstory.

Dana

[kozzi24]

I remembered the bit of people (just women) "instinctively" not liking her or something from the occassional back issue I have. I do wonder if that will be played upon or if that bit was lost over time.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I remembered the bit of people (just women) "instinctively" not liking her or something from the occassional back issue I have. I do wonder if that will be played upon or if that bit was lost over time.

Yes....Jessica gave off some sort of pheromones that elicited attraction in most men and fear in most women(sometimes men....depending on body chemistry.....a.k.a the writer's whim). The fear response usually translated to people feeling intimidated, unnerved by her or really uncomfortable around her.

She lost the ability to give off the pheromone(along with her immunity to radiation), when she temporarilly lost her powers years ago....it was never shown to have returned with the rest of her abilities.

Dana

[Richv1]

Jessica Drew Spider-Woman's powers were she had spider strength, spider agility like Spider-Man's. She also had a bio blast which cam out of her hands as green colored energy and she used to have the ability that her body developed a imunity to any poison used on her so the same pioson would never work twice she lost that ability when she helped save Black Goliath a friend of the Things.
As for her having any phermones powers she does not in her original comic book series.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Jessica Drew Spider-Woman's powers were she had spider strength, spider agility like Spider-Man's. She also had a bio blast which cam out of her hands as green colored energy and she used to have the ability that her body developed a imunity to any poison used on her so the same pioson would never work twice she lost that ability when she helped save Black Goliath a friend of the Things.
As for her having any phermones powers she does not in her original comic book series.

Uh....You might need to read your original Spider-Womans again, Rich. The pheromone power is hinted at in issues 1, 2, 4 and 13.
In issue #16, she finally discovers why she has such a hard time making friends(but it was a long-running sub-plot before then, all of those issues being written by Marv Wolfman) and begins taking medication to counteract the pheromones.

Dana

[Richv1]

She had to take medicine now to? Heres a write up that is comprehensive. www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/s/spiderwomani.htm

[cmdrkoenig67]

Issue 16 is where she learned about the pheromones and began to take the prescription....as far as I know, she was taking the medication up until she died in issue 50.

Dana

[Richv1]

I don't really like the idea that Spider-Woman is a spy for some unknown group. I hope it turns out she is brainwashed and not doing it freely. Spying on the Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D. is not something I want to see from her.

[Northstars Love]

This book has been thumbs up for me. I love Bendis and Finch ever since Ultimate X-Men. This team rocks!

I agree. Wolverine doesn't need to be in this book. Keep him in the X-titles! :wink:

[Scarlettspiderg]

The first two issues were full blown action, while the 3rd has started to show character development and the team properly coming together, the only piece missing is the humour.

The only downside is that I know Wolverine will so up sooner or later.

[maniac mike]

I thought the scene between Steve and Jarvis was humourous because all of the sudden you see Spidey head pop into view :lol: that's Spidey for you.

MM

[Richv1]

Now when Wolverine starts hitting on Mary Jane I bet we'll have one upset Spider.
So far though I am enjoying the comic.

[mreeez]

After following the 1st 4 issues of the New Avengers book I couldn't help but think that this is how an intro to a new team in an old book should be. I magine if Vol. 3 had an intro like this. We are still only a few issues in and the team is not yet assembeled but stuff is happening. There are multiple story lines being woven in and piqueing interest. There are multple mysteries that are keeping readers interested and looking forward to the upcoming issues. Now compare that to the intro of Vol.3. Need I say more?

Ed

[PWalk]

I haven't read the book and I have no idea who Sentry is but I need a book to read.

[Richv1]

I am hoping that very soon they will explain a little about who Sentry is and what his powers are. I know he can fly and is stronge but what else? This is the first time I've seen him. I know he has made other appearances in other comics. But he is not a long time established character like the rest of the team.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I know Sentry had his own series for a bit, but I know little of him beyond that. He seems to be another Superman ripoff(like Prime, Hyperion, etc...)...but that may be only because I haven't read any of his stories.

Dana

[kozzi24]

It's funny...I have the Sentry series by Jenkins. I enjoyed it, but remember little details of it. Most was set in the early time of Marvel, and had seemed at the time of a form of what if story, with the premise of what if someone like superman was in the Marvel Universe, not just by his powers, but his boy scout attitude...he was a friend and inspiration with/to everyone, including Hulk.
I should reread it when I get a chance.
I do remember it as a pretty decent story tho...worth finding in back issues or trades

[Richv1]

From what I've seen of Sentry in the New Avengers so far he doesn't seem like a boy scout. Probably his wifes death has changed that in him. He feels responsible for it.

[Le Messor]

I haven't read the book and I have no idea who Sentry is but I need a book to read.

New Avengers is great. But I also recommend Runaways (new series just starting up! Yay!) and, of all things, Young Avengers. Yeah, it looks bad from the outside, but it's really well-written.

- Le Messor
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship."

[HappyCanuck]

[quote="Le Messor"]New Avengers is great. But I also recommend Runaways (new series just starting up! Yay!) and, of all things, Young Avengers. Yeah, it looks bad from the outside, but it's really well-written."

Runaways doesn't really hold my attention, but surprisingly, Young Avengers - at least what I've seen of them from previews - does look quite intriguing. Sorta like the original run of Power Pack (compared to the batch of candyfluff they are trying to pass off as them) in that it's written well, without talking down to the audience or the characters.

[Weapon Omega]

I hear after the "Breakout" storyline ends there's going to be a two or three issue arc spotlighting the Sentry. I can't wait, I don't know too much about the character and would to see finally see him in the book!

All in all, I've been enjoying New Avengers, I agree with you that Wolverine AND Spiderman being in another title is not necessary, but what are you going to do right?? Seems like the only two characters in the Marvel Universe for the last couple of years has been these two!!

[Dalandow]

I know Sentry had his own series for a bit, but I know little of him beyond that. He seems to be another Superman ripoff(like Prime, Hyperion, etc...)...but that may be only because I haven't read any of his stories.

Dana


The Sentry isn't, in my opinion, isn't just another rip-off of Supes. While he has the almost the same powers, its his personality, attitude, and background that sets him apart from Superman and "the other rip-offs".

Whenever he drinks a secret serum, he gains the "power of a million exploding suns!" And yes, its cheesy, but as you read into the series, it gets much darker. You realize he's addicted to the serum that makes him the Sentry, cause being plain old Robert Reynolds isn't a pleasure cruise. Robert is schizophrenic and agoraphobic(fear of open spaces), so hes confined to his house basically. And unliked Superman, who prides his self on saving others all over the world, The Sentry goes where CLOC (The Sentry's supercomputer) tells him where he should go. CLOC lets the Sentry know whats going on all over the world, he also tells him what the probability of the given situations are, how long it will take, and whats the most important. Unlike Supes, The Sentry goes about his deeds in a robotic and methodical fashion, almost as if he didn't care about what happened to those people in the burning building while he was out saving people from a nuclear meltdown, or while he was spending time with his wife, Lindy. I know, Comparasions to Superman are easy to make, but its his flaws that make him uniquely Marvel.

I also recommend his new mini series if you guys aren't already reading it. It goes even farther into detail of the Sentry life.

[Richv1]

Yep I have been getting his limited series. And yes he is definetly different than Superman.
I haven't decided for sure whether I like his character or not yet. I'll read another issue of his series and I'd like to see how well he does in the Avengers team on a mission to.

[Obsidian3d]

I've read up to number 16 and I think I liked the Ronin arc the best. Except for the fight with Cage, Spidey, Wolverine and Jessica vs. The Wrecker, I don't think Wolverine has really been that useful to the team. And where DO these people find the time? I can barely manage my day job! :lol:

[Richv1]

Wolverine is only part time with them. I liked that fidght with the Wrecker they got to beat up a top level villian. They worked together to do it to.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Personally I think the flaw of Wolverine's role in the New Avengers is the same in the comic as it is out of it. Wolverine's argument in the issue in which they announced their new teams was a seriously bad one in my opinion. Allowing him to sit out the public ceremony was one of the worst moves they could have made, one because it seriously separates him from the rest of the team and gives off an incredibly fake image to the public. They want him on the team to do the dirty business without a doubt, and they either need to face their own willingness to allow that to happen or let him go his own way. Yes, he is a former assassin and many time murderer, and now he is also an Avenger. What happens when Wolvie gets busted for doing something by the law? Will the Avengers back him up? I'm not convinced that there really HAS been an effort, inside or out to really make him a member, and that they need to either use or lose him. This is the problem with most of Wolvie's guest appearances and even continual series appearances is that they don't actually use him... he was on a team for a whole arc of Uncanny and yet sat out most of it after getting slapped aside... I'm starting to see why people think of Wolvie as a simple money factor, because he isn't being the amazing hero that got him his reputation in the first place. I like where he is going in his own series and he's done well enough in Astonishing, but although I initially loved the idea of Wolvie finally as an Avenger, they aren't letting him live up to the potential.

[Dalandow]

Personally, I'm getting rather tired of not seeing the Sentry do anything. Whats the point of having him on the team if hes not going to do anything.

Hopefully he'll square off against the Collective. That'd be worth the price of admission.

[Richv1]

I agree Sentry meeds to be used in the series. And Wolverine I think he should just leave the team. I don't like at all how they are using him.
Keeping him for the dirty jobs is wrong. They have to learn to do them themselves in their own way.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Yeah, Sentry and Wolverine either need to step up or get lost in my opinion, and it should really either be one or the other. Obviously they'll pull for Sentry because he's their mystery boy at this point. Anyways, I actually was really hoping for Wolverine to start taking some leadership positions, not only in the Avengers, but in the X-Men and even in the worldwide mutant resistance... but no, apparently not. I really thought it would be a great development, especially given his current evolution and new personal gains, if he could take charge, get things together. I mean, he is now perhaps the deadliest individual on the planet as some might argue... he has dirt on tons of foreign governments, hes had several layers of top notch military training, hes arguably unkillable... I mean he whooped up on Silver Samurai with hardly even a problem (I say as much because I don't think that Wolvie really cared about the sword in stomach thing, hey, its happened before), and he used to have a decently rough time with him... I mean, the guy has gone head to head with some of the toughest of the tough, even without his adamantium and a reversed healing factor! That has to count for something.

[kozzi24]

I was hoping that Wolverine's inclusion with the Avengers was going to show how--no matter how heroic he could be he isn't really AVENGERS material. Avengers don't kill, and other. Back in the day, Hawkeye could be troublesome, but he never went as far as to flirt with other members' wives, etc. He created tension without much moral questionability.

The story does make sense as Wolverine's membership was sponsored by Tony Stark, a character whose morality does seem to ALWAYS coincide with Stark's own best interests over the interests of the team. Hopefully Civil War will highlight the philosophical differences.

In example of what I'm saying in the storytelling, I thought Operation Galactic Storm should have ended with membership changes if East and West teams along the lines of who favored killing the Supreme Intelligence. That both teams reverted to the same memberships when the arc was over was a disappointment.

[Richv1]

Yes that flirting with Mary Jane I didn't much like. That is not part of Wolverine's normal character to ever try to come between a married couple.
He is a killer yes but he is also an honourable man. Not a beast but a man. He is really used wrong here in the Avengers and he does seem out of place.

[Le Messor]

Yes that flirting with Mary Jane I didn't much like. That is not part of Wolverine's normal character to ever try to come between a married couple.

Yes, the Wolverine we all know and love would never, ever flirt with a red-head who was already attached to somebody else.

- Le Messor
"Economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists."

[HappyCanuck]

Yes that flirting with Mary Jane I didn't much like. That is not part of Wolverine's normal character to ever try to come between a married couple.

Yes, the Wolverine we all know and love would never, ever flirt with a red-head who was already attached to somebody else.

- Le Messor
"Economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists."

*sniff, sniff* ahhhh! nothing like the fresh smell of sarcasm in the morning!

[DelBubs]

For just a second there I was trying to recall a time that Wolvie flirted with Heather while she was with Mac, then it occured that you were prolly referring to Jean Grey while she was with Scott. He must really like Mac a lot, not to have tried to get into Heathers spandex while he's been about.

[Richv1]

Wolverine when he flirted some with Jean he never had any intentions to doing anything more than talking. He was talking to a friend that he was very close to. But only a friend. Both knew that nothing would ever happen between them. As Wolverine told Scott before he would never make a play for another man's wife.
The New Avengers seems to be changing the characters however they please, just look at Spider-Man his new costume was a bride to get him to work for Tony as his lackey. They are going to be keeping secrets anfd lying to the rest of the Avengers including Cap. Peter admired Cap more than almost anyone except his family. For Peter to throw that away and now be Iron Man's flunky. It is just not in character.

[kozzi24]

When Wolverine did flirt with jean grey, she was not yet married to Scott. I am also a proponent of looking at the original continuity, pre-
Origin, and Del hit on the theory i always had.

Isn't it possible that Wolvie's obsessession with Jean was simply displaced love for heather. Wolvie would never hit on a married woman (he is supposed to have a high sense of honor) PARTICULARLY his best friend's wife. I always figured his feelings for jean were always displaced feelings for Heather that he would not allow himself to even acknowledge.

[Richv1]

Yes Wolverine's sense of honor would never allow him to cheat with a married woman. He loved Jean for Jean not because of Heather who he respected and loved as well but more as a sister. Jean though if not for Scott and their love he would have made a play for her. But he would never interfer in their happiness.

[DelBubs]

I think hs feelings for Heather have gone deeper than Brother-Sister. I seem to recall he told her one of the reasons he left Dept H was because his feelings for her were so deep and he didn't want to cause problems between her and Mac.

[Richv1]

Maybe so but since she is married he would never come between the two. That is just not his character.

[Powersurge]

I agree Sentry meeds to be used in the series. And Wolverine I think he should just leave the team. I don't like at all how they are using him.
Keeping him for the dirty jobs is wrong. They have to learn to do them themselves in their own way.

Bu ... bu ... but then they would have to face reality and/or blame themselves, and who want any part fo that with such a conveninet scapegoat at hand. Yep it is a long established custom here in the West to send in the soldiers, and then to wash your hands of the atrocities they committed in your name by condemning the soldiers as criminlas upon their return. Thus, Wolvie is filling a very important social role in Western culture. :roll: :oops:

[DelBubs]

Maybe so but since she is married he would never come between the two. That is just not his character.
Which is supported by his choosing to leave 'H'

[Richv1]

But if he has the same feelings for Heather and Jean why didn't he leave the X-Men as well?

[DelBubs]

Probably, as Kozzi mentions, his feeling for Heather are deeper than those for Jean. Plus he probably has a lot more respect for Mac then he does for Cyclops. Mac has always been a surrogate father figure for Wolvie, whereas he has a deep contempt for Scott.

[Richv1]

But if Mac is a father figure couldn't that make Heather a mother figure?

[DelBubs]

There probably is Rich. I wouldn't say there is anything Oedipel about his feelings for Heather, but the depth of those feelings are probably strengthened by his viewing her as a mother figure in some respects.

[Richv1]

So than his feeling towards Jean would be different as he views her as a friend and romantic interest. Heather is viewed as both those plus a mother figure.

[DelBubs]

I'd go with that Rich. Mind you, it's all down to interpretation of whats been seen so far.

[Richv1]

What Wolverine needs in his life is a steady g/f and one that can defend herself. Mariko and Yuriko are ok. But Mariko could not fight and Yuriko is to much of a wildcat.
He needs to meet a new lady friend. One he can get serious with.

[HappyCanuck]

As creepy as it sounds, the person you just described, Rich, is Kitty. She's more like Logan than either would care to admit - mostly because of Logan's influence on her. Again, we'd have a bit of an Electra complex happeneing, since Wolverine was more of a father-figure to Kitty during her earlier days in the X-Men, but now they are both formidable with each other as they are against each other. They kind of complete each other.

[Richv1]

Well Kitty has just goten back with Colossus so she is not looking for anyone else.
Plus yes Wolverine is a father figure with her not alover. Big age difference to. Shes like 18 he looks in his twenties or thirties, I know he is 200 years old and some.

[HappyCanuck]

considering Logan is over a century old, I DON'T think he should be looking for someone in his age bracket - unless we're trying to hitch him to Aunt May or something/....

[Richv1]

Well Aunt May is now taken to. Just like Kitty. I was thinking maybe someone that was still available. I know him and Storm thought about getting together but now she might be getting married to the Black Panther.
So who does that leave for Logan?

[DelBubs]

Northstar, the small fact that he killed him once should not be an obstacle. :-)

[Richv1]

Lets hope that Logan never goes that way. "Not that there's anything wrong with that." Except for Logan.
Maybe Mystique since they already have a sexual relationship, if she turned good. They could make it work.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

So who does that leave for Logan?
Jubes.

But seriously, I wouldn't put too much weight on the Col/Shadow relationship... after all, JW is writing it, and he is notorious for giving great relationships that develop and then suddenly end very harshly. He'll give everyone what they want and then purposelly break their hearts. I also don't think that he'd push for a Wolvie/Cat relationship, but then again he'll also be off the book not too long from now. And they do have a bit of a thing going on. And he always has had this 'daughter' thing going on with the chicks of the Marvel Universe...

[Richv1]

Yes Wolvie has had a couple young girls around him. Jubilee. Kitty and X-23. But he has never shown any sexual interest in them. Or any younger girl.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Well I think it'd be a little bit disturbing if he took a sexual interest in X-23. He sure loves himself but... anyways, there might not have been any explicit past references to a relationship between Wolvie and his younger female wards, but for one that is because he has always been occupied with other things, and plus, look at Storm and Black Panther. Left field.

[Ben]

and plus, look at Storm and Black Panther. Left field.

Not completely, take a look at Earth X

Ben

[Mokole]

Well there's Jubilee, most Japanese women, tall redheads, maybe Heather Hudson is Mac is dead again. This is just too silly. Why am I writing this? :oops:

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Not completely, take a look at Earth X
Ah, a valid point indeed. Totally forgot about that. Good reminder.

[Richv1]

Yes I remember them in Earth X. I think BP and Storm would make a lovely couple. I have the latest issue of BP here. I'll have to read it and see if they do get married?

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Personally I haven't liked Black Panther in a long time, since I was about 5 or 6, but then again I'm also not a fan of Storm either. My only real complaint about this is that I've already started getting from my friends "Right, so the two black people of the Marvel Universe just have to get together..." and other such lines... personally I just don't sense much chemistry between them, but then again, as I won't be buying the series or really paying attention to it, I guess the target audience of their relationship is not me, and therefore I have absolutely no real room to talk.

[Richv1]

The part I like best about Black Panther now is I get to see an old favorite of mine in action again. Brother Voodoo! I always loved his character. Maybe because he was so different. I know BP is featuring all the black super-heroes but this guy just sticks out. I know a lot of people don't think much of him and he has been made fun of. But I like the underdog. I would love to see him get a limited series.

[Le Messor]

Storm and the Black Panther have a long history in the MU.

And, Logan's -always- gone for redheads; Rose, then Heather, and Jean (there was somebody else in there, too, but I don't know her. I just remember a quiz in Marvel Age on 'Which redhead did Logan fall in love with first? There were at least three multiple choice answers, and Heather was correct; this was before Rose existed, of course.)

- Le Messor
""Oh, Jason, take me!" she panted, her breasts heaving like a college freshman on $1-a-beer night."
- student writer

[Richv1]

I'd like to see Silver Fox come back.
So did everyone see the poor showing from Alpha Flight in the New Avengers?

[Le Messor]

So did everyone see the poor showing from Alpha Flight in the New Avengers?

Nope. Nobody did.
That's one of the things I hate about it.

- Le Messor
"Eliminate government waste no matter how much it costs."

[Richv1]

Basicly they showed up and got their asses handed to them. Now the New Avengers are going to take down the guy that beat Alpha Flight.

[Le Messor]

Yep. I read the issue. I collect New Avengers.

(So, why did I write what I wrote?)

[Richv1]

I guess they just used Alpha Flight to show that this was a major league menace. To build it up so the Avengers could take it down.
But it was a mistreatment of Alpha Flight. They deserved better.

[Legerd]

Yep. I read the issue. I collect New Avengers.

(So, why did I write what I wrote?)

Because you were right, nobody saw them get their hinies handed to them on a platter because it wasn't shown! Of course now the NA's will walk in and Cap A will hit the Collective with his shield and win the day. :roll: Oh for the day that Alpha is shown to be that good.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Well, I finally actually 'read' the issue the other day... and I'm not entirely sure that it will play out as a typical "Hey look New Avengers here to save the day!/Cap hits it with his shield" scenario... the only reason I say this is because it is expressed within the comic that this is the typical thing to do... I think (at least some of) the New Avengers might get their collective butts (pun intended) kicked... especially Cap. I don't have the issue at hand, but the quote was something to the degree of "We have nothing to worry about, Captain America will save the day..." I don't know about that, but any time I hear that it means that individual is going to get slammed... we'll see... hopefully so... I like Cap, but he needs to get tossed around now and then.

[Richv1]

Well I would like to see Alpha come back and save the Avengers but that is not going to happen. Sasquatch is stronger than Cage. Puck is in Cap's league at H2H. The team has waht it takes we just need a creative team working on them to bring it out.

[Legerd]

Well, I finally actually 'read' the issue the other day... and I'm not entirely sure that it will play out as a typical "Hey look New Avengers here to save the day!/Cap hits it with his shield" scenario... the only reason I say this is because it is expressed within the comic that this is the typical thing to do... I think (at least some of) the New Avengers might get their collective butts (pun intended) kicked... especially Cap. I don't have the issue at hand, but the quote was something to the degree of "We have nothing to worry about, Captain America will save the day..." I don't know about that, but any time I hear that it means that individual is going to get slammed... we'll see... hopefully so... I like Cap, but he needs to get tossed around now and then.

It's not that I hate Cap, it's that I hate how AF always seems to have such difficulty defeating a villain while any other hero/team will only need to "sling a shield" at the same bad guy and problem solved. If the NA's have a big drag down knock out fight with the Collective then good, but I have a feeling it's going to be scenes of Cap blocking energy blasts with his shield; Wolverine nearly being incinerated before healing; Cage getting hit full on but being able to withstand the attacks and Spiderman dodging anything that comes his way. Iron Man will analyze the mutant energies while all this is going on and will whip out a handy dandy mutant power dampener and zap the Big C (I mean the Collective) with it end o' story. At least that's what would usually happen and I have yet to see anything new from the "New" Avengers to make me feel otherwise.

[Obsidian3d]

Ooh ooh I know! Pick me. hahaha...

[Powersurge]

I like Cap, but he needs to get tossed around now and then.

Then you need to check out some early, late 80's Avengers. The Masters of Evil arc for instance where they take over the Avengers mansion ... with Mr.Hyde pummeling poor Jarvis mercilessly before a bound and helpless Captain America. Or a few issue later when Zeus, ticked at what happened to Herc., decided to take it out on the Avengers. Cap's legs were shattered and he was next to useless for the showdown.

"Course, it was really neat to see the Black Knight armed with both his sword and Cap's shield.

Anyway, if Cap has become some sort of indestrctible super-hero-hero in the intervenig years .... blasphemy!!! Cap's lack of substantial power, and the sheer power of his fighting spirit is what makes Cap Cap. He needs to get tossed around .... frequently ... or he becomes, like, Thor or someone.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Oh, I'm not saying that he doesn't get tossed around, I'm just saying that now and then its good for him. It always makes for good stories when he gets pummeled a bit. But to be honest I don't see him getting whooped too hard right now as long as he keeps that name and costume... to hurt Cap might be unAmerican, and can you think of anything worse than that? But I always find Cap's victories when they happen alot more believable when he gets smacked really hard first. And the shield is an awesome thing if used properly, but overusage dampens its effects. Its not actually an awesome weapon, its an awesome visual plot device.

[Richv1]

It may be a great visual plot device but it is also a great offensive and defensive weapon. Its ability to absorb energy upon impact makes it great for protection. And its hardness and sharp edges make it effective as a weapon.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

I'm not discounting it entirely... just saying that it isn't that great a weapon... there are tons of better options... I mean... a shield? Serves its purposes... but oh well. I just liked what they did with it more when I was younger... also, the dramatic hurling of the shield does get a little bit tired after a while.

[Richv1]

A little tired thats like saying you get tired of Superman flying, or Spidey swinging. I remember Cap losing his shield the first thing I did was cancel my subscription to the comic. Like Cap said in the comic its like losing an arm. It is part of him. Without it he just isn't the same.
Better options, I cannot picture Cap with anything elase he just wouldn't be Cap without the shield. He tried stun discs for a while but that didn't work out.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

A little tired thats like saying you get tired of Superman flying, or Spidey swinging.
Um... I wouldn't really draw that comparison, seeing as both of those are more skills than anything else... and they at least provide diverse possibilities... and other options. Superman doesn't just fly, he also has (instert 200 powers of Superman here), and Spider-Man also uses his webs as weapons, not just as a means of transportation. And actually yes, I do get tired of them doing those things if thats all they do. Issues of Spidey just webslinging? Boring. And there have been plenty. I like it when they make the shield diverse, because it proves that they have creative abilities. But when Cap just keeps throwing the shield... I personally get bored. "Cap! Dramatically hurl your shield!"... and then what? Do it again? Don't get me wrong, it can be done right. I just rarely think it is.
I remember Cap losing his shield the first thing I did was cancel my subscription to the comic. Like Cap said in the comic its like losing an arm. It is part of him. Without it he just isn't the same.
Well that is a personal choice. And I'm not saying that the shield isn't cool or popular, its just been used a whole, whole lot. And occasionally, "losing an arm" is good for character development. He isn't the only one to have lost an integral part of him at some point or another.

Better options, I cannot picture Cap with anything elase he just wouldn't be Cap without the shield.
Well, people did say that Logan without the adamantium wouldn't be Wolverine... and he ran with that for a while. Course that all got pushed away... but change can be good. For a while. Then the bone gets tired as well. Change things up. *shrugs* But thats just me. I think that when Cap goes without the shield sometimes he gets to show other attributes that make him a hero. Cap to me is more than a shield.

He tried stun discs for a while but that didn't work out.
Well, I'm also not advocating a new signature weapon from him either. I just think that we could do without the constant hurling that is it. All I'm saying is that it could be done better, and that unless they use it properly, it shouldn't be so frequently used. To note, this isn't an argument that I've found unique to Cap's shield... if Batman just sat around throwing batarangs all day, it would get boring... he does more than just that... if Hulk, even weaponless, just sits around and smashes with abandon ever single minute, his title gets boring, a primary complaint I have had most of my life about the character... I also apply this to general characters as well... (unless Wolverine is being used properly, he shouldn't be used for instance, Dr. Strange unless properly used can be boring and hated as heck) I like creative characters and items, things that can be used variably... hence my fandom of Magic and Power Rings for one thing. And given other people's expressions "scenes of Cap blocking energy blasts with his shield; Wolverine nearly being incinerated before healing; Cage getting hit full on but being able to withstand the attacks and Spiderman dodging anything that comes his way. Iron Man will analyze the mutant energies while all this is going on and will whip out a handy dandy mutant power dampener and zap the Big C" I'm not entirely alone on the monotony that can come from some comics.

But, as I've said, its a personal thing. I think that the shield is tired and improperly used right now. I'm not interested. Others can choose to think differently.

[Richv1]

To say Cap only uses his shield and thats al he does is so wrong. First and foremost when he is with a team or working with others is his ability to lead. Shield or no shield that is there and it is used more than his shield is.
Also if you have been reading Captain America as I have been. I can't even remember him throwing his shield. He might have but if he did it was certainly down played. And if has been very infrequent.
But Cap is a soldier and a soldier with a weapon will use it.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

To say Cap only uses his shield and thats al he does is so wrong. First and foremost when he is with a team or working with others is his ability to lead. Shield or no shield that is there and it is used more than his shield is.
*sigh* To me, that is all that Cap has been doing of late. Not always, but of late. I'm not claiming that the shield in throwing action is his only asset, but rather that it is an overplayed element of his character, as you yourself claim is the case. I have found that all Cap can do in what I have read recently is strike bold heroic moves and then launch the shield in some dramatic effect. I have not, in recent times, found him to be a capable leader or inspiring. In the past I can see how this might be a valid argument, but personally I don't think that currently is the case. Also, I was merely intending to point out the frequency with which the shield is used. One minute we have that Cap isn't Cap without the shield, the next we have that the shield isn't important, the next we have that the shield in an invaluable part of him... I'm sorry, at this point I'm just confused.

Also if you have been reading Captain America as I have been. I can't even remember him throwing his shield. He might have but if he did it was certainly down played. And if has been very infrequent.
Once again, perhaps just a result of personal choices and exposure. Obviously I am not as versed in recent Cap events, but in all appearances that I have read, namely the New Avengers comics which this thread is the subject of, I have seen his only true value being the occasinal pointless throwing of the shield. See a problem? Throw the shield. That is what I have seen.

But Cap is a soldier and a soldier with a weapon will use it.
An arguable statement, once again based on personal beliefs and preferences. When a soldier chooses not to use a weapon it is all the more significant when he chooses to. Also, I believe, personally, that the importance of Cap carrying a shield is that it is defensive, and non-offensive. Cap is a defender to me, a defender of the principles which he has subscribed to, and this is also why I believe the offensive use of the weapon should be somewhat limited.

In the end, all I'm trying to say is that I've got different preferences regarding Cap. I want to see Cap use his shield creatively. I want to see Cap be more than just a smack-em soldier boy. I want to see him as a virtuous and yet challenged hero. I'm not challenging Cap as a valid, worthy, enjoyable and potent hero... I'm just saying I want to read him in a way that is enjoyable to me. Can you really keep blaming me for that? I'm sure we've all had times when our heroes have been improperly written, or rather written so that they are not to our liking and thus find them no longer enjoyable. The Captain America who currently occupies the pages of comics no longer meets my liking, and as he has been an iconic hero since long before I was born, and I (as perhaps some many others) grew up with him as a personal hero... I just think that he could be done better.

[Richv1]

I agree Captain America could be done better to especially in his own series. Although the one thing he needs in it is to use his shield a lot more. He is now being shown as more of just an average spy. He needs to be in costume more and in action.
In the New Avengers he is not being used as he should either he is getting put in the background instead of in the forfront. He needs to be shown more as the leader of the team. And shown using his shield more offensively and defensively.
Captain America has not been written the way he should be for a while now. It appears to be Marvel's way of updating the character. And in his own title the writer explained his actions are because of the Cosmic Cube being used to alter his personality but it is still going on and has been for way to long.

[kozzi24]

one of my favorite Cap scenes was the point in the Onslaught story when the Avengers were fighting Post and whomever, when Cap said, "we can't win." He just deadened the other Avengers, a great example of his leadership and inspiration to tohers. I find in his solo series these days that he is not inspiring to others. I've seen no real use for Sharon Carter's resurrection. Cap's relationsip with Diamondback worked for me because he was inspiring her to something greater.
His inspirational qualities is also, I think, the main element missing from New Avengers.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Haha, wow, now that all of that is finally settled, I'm going to seem like a real Devil's advocate jerk right now... see, the reason why I've set out alot of general dislike of Cap's character recently is because in the upcoming moments I finally see a chance for Cap to really rise to the challenege. I think he may prove inspirational again, and that he may become a creative character... within the folds of Civil War. If Cap makes a stand, and holds true to the values of America rather than the decisions of the government, Steve has a real chance to bring himself out of this slump, and also a chance to be a leader once more. The other thing is, I really want Steve to learn to accept and understand Logan... very much how Batman/Green Lantern finally came to an understanding in GL's most recent issue to anyone who has had the occasion to cross over to that issue (very good by the way). If Cap can come to terms with Logan and learn to work with him, that'd be an awesome team-up to me. Cap just has so much potential at this point that I can't quite let go of him as (at least in part) my idol... I just really hope they can thicken him up during the conflict of Civil War. (Although regretably this'll mean that Iron Man will have to lose some cred...)

[Richv1]

I would like to get a good writer on Captain America and the New Avengers who knows how to have Cap create that inspiration. His own series that no longer exists at all and Avengers its nowhere near the level it should be at.
Him and Wolverine getting along better. Well I would not want to see Cap compromise his ideals but sure I'd love to see my twwo fav characters working side by side in harmony.

[kozzi24]

(Although regretably this'll mean that Iron Man will have to lose some cred...)
Iron Man doesn't have a lot of cred with me anyway. Tony Stark definitely uses people, the most recent example being his sponsorship of
Logan in the New Avengers to do the team dirty work.