Ben. if what you say is untold law, then plez answer these I

[mos_def]

I know you aint Steve or Duncan, but if Gentry is Mac then do you think the Director knows this?

How far do we have to retcon Mac and Heatehrs history together. I know Wolverine gutted Mac and thus the cause for the clones, but it made me wonder.Did Mac know of the clones cuz he wanted to start an amary since his days of the creation of Bedlam? Is Mac the Judas of the team much like how Batman and Prof X created extintion files of each member.HMmm, sounds like a good arc to me

The DNA sampling Dept H did had to be going on for awhile cuz we all saw Radius and Flex when they were young in the Hull House with Puck.

[Ben]

well, I can only speak on my own assumptions from what I remember of my convos years ago.

As far as retconning Mac and Heather's history, it would be everything that happened post Vol.2. Them getting back together, having a baby ect. I don't think Mac would have known about the cloning process until he got caught up in it. You can decide for yourself how involved he was in the whole thing, however I would say that he came up with his under-cover plan when he found out about his cloning, and all the other immoral happenings in Department H. He must have been captured by them before they introduced the young clone, or else he would have been right there raising a stink. You could write it that they captured him, put him in lockup and brought out the young fella that they could control and manipulate. He then manages to escape, and uses his connections to create the identity of Gentry and move in when Clarke "Died" (though we know he really didn't, as he was Scorpio). I would say that the Director was oblivious to Gentry's real identity, as he was really the one Mac was looking to bust in the process.


I don't like the idea of Mac being Judas. Mantlo tried to do this in the whole Bedlam story, along with implying Mac had something to do with the original Weapon X project. Mac was a good man in my books. I ran away from Jaxon and his group when he found out about the military plans for his inventions, he has strong morals I'd say. But yes, there must have been lots of hidden agendas at Dept. H for years as you say, I just don't think Mac had anything to do with them.

Ben

[mos_def]

I believe Mac is a good uy myself. BUt when one works with the devil does that not make him a sinner.

And another WOw cuz I did not know Clarke was Scorpio. I was thinking he was Groundhog. LoL.Did they reveal this in WX when the Zodiac died.

You seem to have all the answers. I should interview you. Do you know what Flinch and Ouija did for powers?

[Le Messor]

Did Mac still create Bedlam, or has that been retconned out?

As for the extinction files, it was reasonably not bad when JLA did it (but I thought the others over-reacted muchly. They should've expected it, and seen the need; how many times have each of them been possessed, replaced, Mirror Mirrored, etc...?) I didn't know about X doing it, and haven't read it - unless it was buried in Morrison's run? As something the Twisted Sister used?

- Le Messor
"My own brother, a God-damned, ****-sucking vampire. Ooh, you wait 'til Mom finds out!"
- Sam, -The Lost Boys-

[Ben]

I believe Mac is a good uy myself. BUt when one works with the devil does that not make him a sinner.

And another WOw cuz I did not know Clarke was Scorpio. I was thinking he was Groundhog. LoL.Did they reveal this in WX when the Zodiac died.

You seem to have all the answers. I should interview you. Do you know what Flinch and Ouija did for powers?

The Clarke = Scorpio thing was something that Steve told me after the book was done. I certainly wouldn't say I have all the answers, and many of my answers I would certainly say are tainted by opinion. I have however emailed Steve to see if he'd be interested in doing a Q&A of some sort, so we'll see if he gets back to me on it.

Ben

[Ben]

Did Mac still create Bedlam, or has that been retconned out?


I don't think that plot was touched once since it was first written. I think everyone (me included) ignored it. Like everything else with Mantlo's run, I found he created great characters, I loved the Character of Bedlam, but he butchered the exsting ones (my opinion)

Ben

[kozzi24]

Mac was the ultimate good guy. All the bit of his involvement with Weapon X was SUPPOSITION on Heather's part, also Mantlo's doing. That man could create great characters. I probably would have loved to see him work on Avengers. In many ways I don't understand WHY he seemed to have such contempt for the original characters. I'm almost inclined to think that it may have been editorial mandate coming from Jim Shooter due to the politics of Byrne leaving Marvel around that time. Mantlo's Rom issues with Alpha saw a great appearance by the team.

Mac certainly would have "extinction files" on the members of his team. He would have watched the control issues of Snowbird, Marrina and even might have suspected the possibility of Sasquatch losing it and seen the need to know how to stop his opn recruits. The little tidbit that he was not surprised by the defection of Wild Child, Smart Alec, Flashback and Diamond Lil can be seen in hindsight as evidence that he at least knew of a need for such information for the greater good.

[DelBubs]

Being pedantic (well ish) given that Mac is a learned type, he designed the suit etc. Then surely just after you've been sliced and diced by Wolvie and someone says, we'll make it good if you sign up to Prometheus ( :?: :?: ) you've gotta be thinking cloning or somthing along them lines.

[HappyCanuck]

Being pedantic (well ish) given that Mac is a learned type, he designed the suit etc. Then surely just after you've been sliced and diced by Wolvie and someone says, we'll make it good if you sign up to Prometheus ( :?: :?: ) you've gotta be thinking cloning or somthing along them lines.

Speaking of which: when was that supposed to have been taken place? I assume it supposedly happened shortly before V.2, but, iirc, Mac and Heather's only known dealings with Wolverine before then (Wolvering 92 and 95), both were quite amicably resolved, and after that, Wolverine was too busy dealing with a) his protobestial-persona as a result of Genesis' failed attempt to refuse him with the adamantium, b) the pre-effects of Onslaught and c) investigatig O:ZT. Hell, Sam said as much in the AF/UXM crossover (AFv.2.9; UXMv.1.355), when Alpha was supposed to be taking Logan back for the presumed-murder of Madison Jeffries, and so the Canadian government could 'reacquire' Logan's Adamantium (that the brain-fritzed Heather woulda known he didn't have, since she was present in both Wolv 92 and 95, were she not being bamboozled severely).

Comments on that??

[Ben]

Being pedantic (well ish) given that Mac is a learned type, he designed the suit etc. Then surely just after you've been sliced and diced by Wolvie and someone says, we'll make it good if you sign up to Prometheus ( :?: :?: ) you've gotta be thinking cloning or somthing along them lines.

Speaking of which: when was that supposed to have been taken place? I assume it supposedly happened shortly before V.2, but, iirc, Mac and Heather's only known dealings with Wolverine before then (Wolvering 92 and 95), both were quite amicably resolved, and after that, Wolverine was too busy dealing with a) his protobestial-persona as a result of Genesis' failed attempt to refuse him with the adamantium, b) the pre-effects of Onslaught and c) investigatig O:ZT. Hell, Sam said as much in the AF/UXM crossover (AFv.2.9; UXMv.1.355), when Alpha was supposed to be taking Logan back for the presumed-murder of Madison Jeffries, and so the Canadian government could 'reacquire' Logan's Adamantium (that the brain-fritzed Heather woulda known he didn't have, since she was present in both Wolv 92 and 95, were she not being bamboozled severely).

Comments on that??



My understanding was that the event of Wolvie running Mac through had happened many years before, before Logan left Department H for the X-Men. Wolvie ran mac trough, they had him sign the waiver to turn the clock back, and in doing so had his signature on whatever piece of paper that legally allowed them to use his dna for cloning. It was shortly before Vol.2 that mac vanished, and had supposively gone to Department H to have them turn his clock back again to return him to full and proper humanity. At least this was the story Department H told to justify a 19 year old Mac.

Ben

[kozzi24]

It was shortly before Vol.2 that mac vanished, and had supposively gone to Department H to have them turn his clock back again to return him to full and proper humanity. At least this was the story Department H told to justify a 19 year old Mac.

So could be up in the air that it happened at all...?

[Ben]

It was shortly before Vol.2 that mac vanished, and had supposively gone to Department H to have them turn his clock back again to return him to full and proper humanity. At least this was the story Department H told to justify a 19 year old Mac.

So could be up in the air that it happened at all...?

Could well be, as we don't rightly know how much of what Dept. H told them is really true.

Ben