if you wrote alpha flight.

[varo]

what would you do?

old team? new team? dept. h? independent?

what would you do to assure that the series stuck this time?



heres what i would do:

1st off my team would be made up of the originals, just because i prefer them.

my team would be:

guardian
sasquatch
shaman
puck
northstar
aurora
snowbird

and............

wolverine!

why not? he's in about 30 books a month and this is his roots. i would start off with a storyline where the original team goes on a mission and is captured, heather being at home tending to her newborn is concerned about her husband and her former teammates and puts a call into wolverine. wolverine rescue's the team and upon learning that dept.h is trying to make alpha become goverment run again decides to help alpha get back on it's feet as he feels obligated to finally help the team and friend he walked out on so many years ago.

i would at least keep that going for 20 or so issues before i finally let wolverine go, thats if marvel wouldn't let me keep him :D

along the way i would form a new beta flight. make alpha a independent team, no longer relying on the goverment. i would bring wild chilld back having wolverine take him under his wing.

i would re-establish the master as their arch nemesis and try to make him on par with magneto and the likes....maybe even having the master kill off a member of alpha flight. i would bring back omega flight and the dream queen. tallisman as well......but as a villian who blames her father for everything that has happened to her.

i would introduce a new super hero team....no way a country as big as canada only has one! i would try to establish guardian as his country's capt america all the while showing how reluctant he is to take on that role (remember mac is a scientist at heart).


thoughts?

[Mystic]

Well, if I was writing for AF, I think that I would make it a mix of new and old characters. I would keep Heather as the leader (probably without the suit). Here's my roster:

Heather
Shaman
Sasquatch
Puck
-New Character-
-New Character-

I would still have AF run under Department H, possibly with Heather being promoted to being the Director (after Gentry's re-assignment). I would drop the government conspiracy, but possibly make a small cell within the department (with Dr. Haddock) wanting to return to the 'Good Ol' Days' (this way it would lead to a future story-line where the evil Dept.H would be gotten rid of permanently). I wouldn't make it a constant battle for funding, but they would become something akin to the Avengers (which they should be anyway). I would re-instate Beta and Gamma Flight.

There're are other things that I would do, but that would take at least ten issues just to do what I had planned.

Cheers,
-Mystic

P.S. - These plans are very similar to future stories for my AF RPG.

[mos_def]

you have an AF RPG.Whats the address

[cmdrkoenig67]

Varo....you read my mind....How dare you?!!! LOL.

I'd pretty much do most of what you have suggested, but I wouldn't use Wolvie or Beta(except when the team recruits new heroes).

My Alpha(expanded to ten, some will be reserve)....

Guardian(Maybe Mac initially, but I may have him leave to be the team scientist and raise his daughter, while Heather would take his place.)
Aurora(reserve, getting psychological treatment for her disorder....finally)
Northstar(reserve, supporting Jeanne Marie in her time of need)
Puck
Sasquatch
Snowbird(reserve, patrolling the tundra for the growing danger of the Great Beasts)
Talisman
Windshear(asked to come out of retirement and help the team out)


I would definately get rid of the Dept. H ties. Omega Flight would return, although I'm not sure about the Master....I WOULD clear up things with Marrina. I'd bring in Walter's son and more of a supporting cast(Heather's family, Other aquaintences and former associates). Reveal where former Alphans have disappeared to. There would be some definite twists and turns in the storylines. There should also be other Canadian heroes....I totally agree there. Clear up lot's of old plot threads and stuff and get them out of the way, but make them really good stories.

My villains:

The Wendigo
The Great Beasts
Omega Flight (Version 3 with Murmur, Caliber and some other old "friends")
Graviton(why has this not happened yet....he's a Canadian villain, for Pete's sake!)
Deadpool(another Canuck villain/anti-hero)


plus a several of my own creation...


Dana :D

[Mystic]

Here's the link:

Alpha Flight RPG (http://alphaflight.cjb.net)

It's also in my signature....and the little 'www' button at the bottom of my posts. I just can't advertise enough for it. :)

-Mystic

[Mokole]

what would you do?

old team? new team? dept. h? independent?

what would you do to assure that the series stuck this time?

I'd keep the current team but in time replace Yukon Jack with Box and once Centennial dies put in, oh, Ghost Girl.

Hudsons are CEO and COO of Department H. Puck is a trainer with Dept. H, trains agents not heroes except Beta Flight. Shaman is a doctor again. Rest are wherever.

Alpha Flight is aligned with Dept. H but not under their authority.

AF is allied with Big Hero Six, the Super Soldiers, and maybe an Anzac or South American team if one exists by then.

Dept. H is allied with Black Air, SHIELD less so.

Dept. H trains Beta Flight for AF, a deal. A new kid, Flex, Flinch, Ghost Girl, Pathway, Goblyn are in it. The last three will leave soon, as you know with GG. Beta Flight will not grow fast at all, never more than 8 in it.

Most of the rest of old AF become Omega Flight. Talisman, not Persuasion, leads. Manikin, Pathway, Goblyn, Diamond Lil, maybe more. No need to bring back Aurora, Northstar, Snowbird, or Marrina.

Big enemies are Dreamqueen, Omega Flight, and Brain Drain, who reforms his old Master allies (plus some) and takes over the Master's vision (possible organization name: ?). Lots of other enemies, even SHIELD.

[kozzi24]

Question Mac's identity--after so many times of dying/returning, who can be sure any more?
The ? of Mac's ID raises serious & profound questions in Heather, particularly as they relate to their daughter.
By extension, other identities associated with the team also are raised, including Snowbird, Aurora, Puck and others. This drives a schism (sp) in the team, and two Alphas seem to form as the divide grows, one led by Mac, 1 by Heather.
In trying to determine true identities and current whereabouts, former members are either revisited, firmly established as dead or retired, or die in the process.
Because the whole long term arc is an ongoing question of "who is THIS Mac?" Heather turns to Wolverine from the beginning and he is a fixture in the storylines. It is determined that, at least initially, only Northstar, Shaman and Talisman can be verified as who they are and supposed to be, the core of the "true team" is with those 5 (This isn't arbitrary choices for older characters, but I can't get that far in just now, and they could be joined by the likes of Mapleleaf Junior & Centennial.)
Would take more than 1 year's worth of books to do right. Obviously it gets broken into arcs for marketability for new readers and trades. First arc involves SHIELD raising the question to Heather, but it's done covertly, so other Alphas end up fighting SHIELD, who calls on aide from the Avengers. Thus the first arc sees character-centric story with Wolverine & Northstar "from the X-Men," conflict with SHIELD, a major fight between AF & Avengers and sets up a larger ongoing story with specific and finite purpose and goal.
Story-wise, there's action & characterization for new readers, roles or appearances by characters through the titles history to appease and hold onto long-time readers, attention to pacing to keep non-padded trades churning and a larger storyline to keep new readers hooked.
Marvel-wise, it cleans up what can be a very messy 160 issues of continuity, defines Alpha as an A-team, and leaves the team approachable to future new readers and returning old time readers (Picture those picking up V3 #8 as his first comic in ten years or trying a sample after watching "Repo-Man" on DVD and saying "WTF?! Where's AF?!"

[Legerd]

My AF would start with the veterans, but mix in some new characters as the series goes. The team would be affiliated with Department H, and be led by Mac as Guardian. Heather would act as liaison officer and raise their daughter, but there would be a story where she dons her old suit to save the day. Shaman would retire from active duty giving his medicine bag to Earthmover (who would promptly change his name to Shaman!!!) and act as doctor, trainer and mystic advisor for the team. Puck would still be active, but would eventually retire to train new recruits after nearly getting killed (or perhaps does get killed but acts as a spirit guide for Shaman). Snowbird will grow ever more distant until she finally decides to join the other gods in their dimension. The twins aren't used since they are in other books(same goes for Madison), so some new French-Canadian heroes would join up. And of course Wyre!
Sasquatch's AF would still be around, but they would be independent of Gov't ties. This would mean no characters are lost, and there would be some great crossovers.
The Master would return and immediatly make life rough for AF. The Dream Queen would also make an appearance. This would provide an chance to tie up loose ends involving Marrina, Pathway and Goblyn. There would be new villains plus a few from elsewhere in the MU and of course one more round with The Great Beasts.
There would be various crossovers with other heroes/groups such as SHIELD, X-men, Avengers and FF to name a few. I would definitely have more interaction with the rest of the MU for sure.

[PWalk]

First things first I would kill Wyre. I'd create a villian called "The Barber" who would clip all of his nasty back off rendering him powerless. Then the Barber would impale Wyre on a giant pair of scissors. It would be a glorious death as Wyre will have saved the entire "North American Hair Stylists Convention" from disaster as "The Barber" is blown to smithereens by a grenade Wyre left on his power belt.

Second thing I'd do is have Shaman decide that Indians don't wear green and orange Spandex leotards to fight crime or conjure up an incantation. Michael would instead begin to wear the outfit of his tribe's ancestors.

THird and last thing I would write would be a two part Puck solo mission spotlighting his work before he joined the flight.

[Ottawa Renegade]

heres what i would do:

my team would be:

guardian
sasquatch
shaman
puck
northstar
aurora
snowbird

and............

wolverine!

why not? he's in about 30 books a month and this is his roots. i would start off with a storyline where the original team goes on a mission and is captured, heather being at home tending to her newborn is concerned about her husband and her former teammates and puts a call into wolverine. wolverine rescue's the team and upon learning that dept.h is trying to make alpha become goverment run again decides to help alpha get back on it's feet as he feels obligated to finally help the team and friend he walked out on so many years ago.

i would at least keep that going for 20 or so issues before i finally let wolverine go, thats if marvel wouldn't let me keep him :D

along the way i would form a new beta flight. make alpha a independent team, no longer relying on the goverment. i would bring wild chilld back having wolverine take him under his wing.

i would re-establish the master as their arch nemesis and try to make him on par with magneto and the likes....maybe even having the master kill off a member of alpha flight. i would bring back omega flight and the dream queen. tallisman as well......but as a villian who blames her father for everything that has happened to her.

i would introduce a new super hero team....no way a country as big as canada only has one! i would try to establish guardian as his country's capt america all the while showing how reluctant he is to take on that role (remember mac is a scientist at heart).

thoughts?

I think I would very much enjoy your version. I've often thought that having Wolverine as at least a "rover" character that appears from time to time would be beneficial.

I love the idea of the Master being more big-time. He's sadly become kind of a joke along the way.

Would your Beta be filled with new characters only, or old ones that we haven't seen in a while? Adn what plans would you have for another superhero team? Competition?

Your subplot with Mac would probably be what I'd look forward to most, but you'd be on must-read list for sure. 8)

[Ottawa Renegade]

Well, if I was writing for AF, I think that I would make it a mix of new and old characters. I would keep Heather as the leader (probably without the suit). Here's my roster:

Heather
Shaman
Sasquatch
Puck
-New Character-
-New Character-

I would still have AF run under Department H, possibly with Heather being promoted to being the Director (after Gentry's re-assignment). I would drop the government conspiracy, but possibly make a small cell within the department (with Dr. Haddock) wanting to return to the 'Good Ol' Days' (this way it would lead to a future story-line where the evil Dept.H would be gotten rid of permanently). I wouldn't make it a constant battle for funding, but they would become something akin to the Avengers (which they should be anyway). I would re-instate Beta and Gamma Flight.

There're are other things that I would do, but that would take at least ten issues just to do what I had planned.

-Mystic

Wold Heather be "on the field" as well as the big boss in the office? Either I like your idea of her in that role.

did you have a vision for your new characters?

[Mystic]

Wold Heather be "on the field" as well as the big boss in the office? Either I like your idea of her in that role.

did you have a vision for your new characters?

Actually, believe it or not, I believe that Heather would still insist on going out in the field with Alpha (or at the very least Beta and Gamma). She's been the leader of AF for a long time, and I can see that being behind a desk after all that would be a difficult adjustment for her.

As far as the new characters, I do have a general idea as to what kind of characters I would like to see:

1. Vindicator or Guardian III (I'm still toying with this one) - Since Mac and Heather are no longer donning the suit, this person would step up to be the patriot and wear the flag of her country. Although this one wouldn't derive her powers from her suit. She would have powers very similar to the ones that the suit allows. Her background would be splotchy, with it being revealed over time. (I'd go into this more, but anything else would ruin the surprise for those of this board who play in the game :) )

2. Ion (a character I helped design with another person) - Purple skin, blue hair, and the ability to produce an energy that, when used at high power, can cause horrible effects to the eco-system. Ion was found in a small lifepod very much like a certain kryptonian. Although what no one knows is that Ion is from a species of interdimensional war mongers known as the Krion. Ion isn't aware of his past, or the fact that there're Krion warriors looking for him. (this is something that will lead to future stories).

Hope that sounds kinda exciting... :)

Cheers,
-Mystic

[Scarlettspiderg]

If I wrote Alpha Flight I would keep the current V3 team (I like them) but have them tackle the Weapon X team (to try and find Aurora, Wildchild and Box) and then take on the Director and his current "Robot team".

I would also have Alpha Flight meet Deadpool, it could be funny, maybe have him became a "reserve" flight member (wait, that may be taking it too far).

[Cliff]

Here's what my approach would be, and it sounds as if we each have some similar ideas in mind:


Mac and Heather: Right off the bat, they are sidellined, possibly to make a return appearanch should a plot or story line dictate. They feel they've been through enough and want to jsut raise their child, but stay on with the new Alpha Flight as liasons or contacts. Last thing Mac wants to do is die again, right?
Guaridian: Really, this uniform is equivalent to Captain America's and can be worn by just about anyone. I'd probably give the role to another scientist type for a while. Perhaps Walter loses his ability to become Sasquatch and dons the suit. Maybe Maddison Jeffries comes back to wear the mantle instead of being Box. Perhaps we discover that Major Mapleleaf's horse is robotic and he give it up to wear the suit, still using his father's title. Maybe the suit and maniker are retired until a suitable replacement can fill the shoes. It's got to be around, but I'd like to have the symbol of Canada's greatest protector be a solid individual like Mac was and do away with the various iterations like Vindicator. I like the idea of a normal citizen stepping up to be a hero, possibly reluctantly at that. Very patriotic too.
Wolverine is going to be tied with the Avengers, and has too much X-backstory, so I'd leave him out.
Sasquatch, Shaman and Snowbird are intrinsically tied to a magickal ideal which Alpha Flight was originally written around. Like Doctor Strange, this is a tough sort of title to maintain, but with the variations on Native American spiritualism and so forth, this could be tapped into again and be the core of the book. Too much corporate conspiracy made the book dull for a while, but when the Dream Queen appeared on the scene, things got interesting again. Setting this three up as arcane manifestations with Shaman on par with Doctor Strange would be the way I'd take things. These three would be the basis of the core team.
Yukon Jack and Centenial: I don't liek Jack and while I like Centenial, it's difficult to want to keep him around. He's been in a coma for years, after all, and might want to use his new found powers to expplore the world a little. Jack is just a little goofy, and with no explanation of his people or culture I'd want to drastically change him, omit him as if he never existed or something equally as wierd. He'd be a better character with some basis in reality. Perhaps if he becomes tied to Inuit mythos too, like Shaman, Snowbird and Sasquatch, then he'd fit in better. It seems like he's meant to be a "Wolverine/WildChild" sort of character with the super ability to "talk funny" too. He's clearly not been thought out too well, so a revamp is truly necessary. In Inuit mythos, each group of animals (water, land and air) are governed by a diety referred to as their "Master". Fitting.
The Plodex technology has overshadowed the Master over the years and he needs to be brough up to speed. He's been alive for thousands of years and could easily be the biggest bad guy around, far and above beyond what even Doctor Doom is capable of. It'd also be nnice to see him in more of a grey area though, I think. Perhaps he shows up again and takes the Plodex technology off Earth, tying up that bit in the process. He goes off into space to come back time and again to hassle AF for various reasons and "monitor" or experiment with his homeworld. Make him more god-like and yet keep him a human being albeit with the resources of the entirety of the remaining Plodex technology in the universe.
Villains:Apart from the Master, why not Doctor Doom, Dormamu, and other baddies normally reserved for the FF or Avengers.
The team: My AF would be more of a national charter. The Hudsons and the Canadian government would want as little involvement outside Canada's borders as possible and this could lead AF to more off-world stories. In any case, the team would be more of a loose group of all past memebers which woul dbe picked to suit whatever mission is at hand. The person making these assignments? Egene Judd, of course - the leader of the team!

[tkmadison]

What?!
No one would enlist the Purple Girl?

[Mystic]

Actually, in my version, she'd be around to help out from time to time, and perhaps be a liaison with Beta Flight. In my opinion she's been in the 'hero' business for a while, and wants to find a semblanc (SP??) of a life. Although she wouldn't be out of loop in any-way-shape-or-form.

-Mystic

[Phil]

I'd drop a nuclear bomb on Canada and see where things go from there....

[tkmadison]

Personally, I can't even stand the concept of "Major Mapleleaf."
That's just exceptionally lame.
Why not just throw in a Sargeant Syrop?
Guardian/Vindicator were great....non-powered people donning a piece of technology...Hold the cheesy Canadian references, please.

[Phil]

See for me that was the attraction of MML Jnr.

His father was retconned into a time where we had "Captain America" "Union Jack" etc... "Major Mapleleaf" isn't too much of a tangent.

The new version is a genuinely good guy who idolised his father and wants to honour his legacy.

The back story Lobdell created about his father beating him as a child makes him an even more interesting and induring character in my eyes.

[tkmadison]

See for me that was the attraction of MML Jnr.

His father was retconned into a time where we had "Captain America" "Union Jack" etc... "Major Mapleleaf" isn't too much of a tangent..

Having a name and concept in common with those two doesn't exactly make it better for me.
I always thought Captain America was just too much...and Union Jack, well, that's a lot like Captain Britain, isn't it?
Characters that are fine in and of themselves, but the identity concepts are just too much.
A Captain America makes sense in the age of propaganda (where he first emerges) and with the whole background of America's holy attachment to their flag...
A super-powered mountie just doesn't do it. I don't think that is a transferable trait to Canada.

[kozzi24]

What?!
No one would enlist the Purple Girl?
Her powers make it difficult to write her as a credible part of the team. Either she can solve the conflict single handedly by possessing the opponents, or there's always yet another forced reason why her powers don't work in each new instance.
Mind control characters need natural limits (Karma could only possess 2 at a time, and could be thrown off if someone was particularly strong willed) or work best as villains.

[Barnacle13]

Here's what I'd do for a reboot. Issue one would show a completely new team of Department H Operatives, call them the Provincial Guard or something. Their assignment, track down and decommision Alpha Flight. Heather begins tying together some kidnappings of some of their old teammates (Manikin, Pathway, Murmur, etc.) as she waits in the supermarket line with her daughter and a few dozen diapers. Of course the Provincial Guard captures her after she pulls out her coupons prompting Mac to call the team together to uncover the conspiracy. The team, consisting of Guardian (Mac), Sasquatch, Puck, Snowbird, Shaman, Aurora, Northstar, Flex, Major Mapleleaf Jr., and Talisman, declares war and takes down Department H once and for all. After that Alpha has free reign to do what they want. I'd have more mysticism involved in the series, as Shaman and Talisman could showcase their powers. I'd also reinstitute the Beta and Gamma Flight projects, and spin one of these off into another title when the time was right.

[Mokole]

In a similar vein, then:

Department H decides that all of their secrets (Plodex, Legacy mutants, Wild Child, what they did to Puck and the Jeffries and more to make them follow orders,...) are going to come back to haunt them and the Board finally decides to stop worrying and deal with it, exterminate.

So they go out to kill any loose ends. Scientists, Legacies, and so on. Only Ghost Girl survives of the Legacies, most ex-AFers are killed (save Pathway, Windshear(overseas), Nemesis, Box(?), Wild Child (WX), Aurora(?), Northstar(X-Man), Zuzha, and Major Mapleleaf), Sasquatch and Byrne AF take as many of these guys as they can find and go on the offensive. Dept. H sends out the Epsilons and Synthoids as a last gasp. In a bloody battle the Major, Guardian, and Snowbird are killed.

Vindicator gives up the suit for good and becomes head of the Flight Department, Alpha Flight's NGO. Puck becomes the operations director and trainer. Shaman becomes physician.

Alpha Flight itself is lead by Sasquatch with Ghost Girl, Zuzha Yu, Nemesis, Pathway, and an Inuit mutant as Guardian.

Why not? MAybe Quesada will go for it. I'd prefer a clean up early on in AF this time.

[tkmadison]

Her powers make it difficult to write her as a credible part of the team. Either she can solve the conflict single handedly by possessing the opponents, or there's always yet another forced reason why her powers don't work in each new instance.
The solution is easy:
gay villains.

[tkmadison]

and an Inuit mutant as Guardian.
With the amount of heavy metals showing up in everyone's bloodstream up there, it's only a matter of time.
:? :wink:

[cmdrkoenig67]

The solution is easy:
gay villains.

Um...what?

[HappyCanuck]

The solution is easy:
gay villains.

Um...what?

That's what we call a 'left-field' comment, based off of stupid - and apparent homophobic - ideologies, that homosexuals are either bad villians, evil, or a joke to be laughed at.

Congratulations, TK: you've managed to offend me three times in a 24 hour period. New record!

[tkmadison]

That's what we call a 'left-field' comment, based off of stupid - and apparent homophobic - ideologies, that homosexuals are either bad villians, evil, or a joke to be laughed at.

Nope, none of the above. Let's just say that maybe gay villains wouldn't be affected by the Purple Girls powers. There's your other way around it.
No need to jump to such negative conclusions...I am neither stupid, nor homophobic. As to suggesting that homosexuals are bad villains, I haven't got a clue as to where you picked that up.


Congratulations, TK: you've managed to offend me three times in a 24 hour period. New record!

Sorry to hear that. No offense intended towards anyone. I don't feel that I have said anything derrogatory to anyone in these forums, but only expressed my opinion on a few topics (the McFarlane comment, I'm guessing, is where I might have offended you previously?) - as does everyone else, as far as I can ell.

[HappyCanuck]

Nope, none of the above. Let's just say that maybe gay villains wouldn't be affected by the Purple Girls powers. There's your other way around it.

Actually, they've disproved that with Purple Girl's first appearance - the third person she's shown to possess was Northstar.


No need to jump to such negative conclusions...I am neither stupid, nor homophobic. As to suggesting that homosexuals are bad villains, I haven't got a clue as to where you picked that up.

I did jump to conclusions, I'll admit (when someone says something like that in a seemingly joking tone, I take offence. It's a serious subject for me.) As for not being a homophobe, that comment wasn't helpful in making me see otherwise. The 'bad villians' suggestion I got from everywhere in media - homosexuals are generally (with very few exceptions) regarded as the butt-joke of the world, subject to stereotyping and ridicule, and I don't abide that.


Sorry to hear that. No offense intended towards anyone. I don't feel that I have said anything derrogatory to anyone in these forums, but only expressed my opinion on a few topics (the McFarlane comment, I'm guessing, is where I might have offended you previously?) - as does everyone else, as far as I can ell.

You're apology is accepted, and I offer two of my own: first for jumping to such conclusions about you - as I said, the derogation of homosexuality is a strong topic with me, one I tend to get a bit defensive about - and second, because I mistakenly attributed a comment said by someone else to you (I had read your name in one post, and associated a following post with you). For both, I am sorry.

[tkmadison]

Actually, they've disproved that with Purple Girl's first appearance - the third person she's shown to possess was Northstar.

Ah, see - I didn't know that. I would have thought that that had happened before it was concretely determined that Northstar was, in fact, gay. I know that it had sort of been hinted at close to the start, but unless it becomes really obvious, I'm not going to jump to that conclusion. There are more and more old characters in the MU that are being reincarnated as gay. This is both good and bad, I think. Bad only because it doesn't gel with the continuity. I just read that Karma is gay...Going back to those old New Mutants comics, who the hell would have thought that?
But I suppose that if they don't show her with a boyfriend either, then it's open season. :D


You're apology is accepted, and I offer two of my own: first for jumping to such conclusions about you - as I said, the derogation of homosexuality is a strong topic with me, one I tend to get a bit defensive about - and second, because I mistakenly attributed a comment said by someone else to you (I had read your name in one post, and associated a following post with you). For both, I am sorry.

No problem - your apology is also accepted. I generally tend to post my comments light-heartedly and in good humour. I don't use smileys as much as I should to show that...probalby because I don't think they are really adequate to the task.
Ah, the joys of electronic communication, eh?
By the way, where in BC are you roughly? I lived in Vancouver for about ten years, myself, and spent a year in Victoria as well.
Loved a lot of aspects of it, but the lack of sunlight in winter drove me nuts.

[HappyCanuck]

Ah, see - I didn't know that. I would have thought that that had happened before it was concretely determined that Northstar was, in fact, gay. I know that it had sort of been hinted at close to the start, but unless it becomes really obvious...

At that point, JP's coming out wasn't for another few years, but considering the revelation, using strict gays agaist Kara would be moot, since we know that her powers worked on JP.


There are more and more old characters in the MU that are being reincarnated as gay. This is both good and bad, I think.

which quells naturally with my gripe against the media. Homosexuality is now becoming a fad - to be used as a 'quirk' or 'shock' medium. Ranks up there with the 'blaxpoitation' of the '70's - using something considered outside the norm that is quickly gaining acceptance as a gimmick (this is the prime reason I refuse to watch 'Will and Grace' and 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy'. I'm to a point where I'm ready to start boycotting them)


I just read that Karma is gay...Going back to those old New Mutants comics, who the hell would have thought that?
But I suppose that if they don't show her with a boyfriend either, then it's open season. :D

You never see Walt with a dog, doens't mean he's allergic. Again, an example of using a minority for it's shock value. Ranks up there with Morrison's 'outting' Beast in X-Men a few years ago - a ploy I have to agree with (even if I don't like Morrison's run). Morrison used Hank to demonstrate such media-shock values as a derogation.


Ah, the joys of electronic communication, eh?

Heh, don't remind me.


By the way, where in BC are you roughly? I lived in Vancouver for about ten years, myself, and spent a year in Victoria as well.

I'm in Revelstoke, in the mountains (about 5 hours west of Calgary).


Loved a lot of aspects of it, but the lack of sunlight in winter drove me nuts.

Heh! That's funny: that's the same reason why I DID move here! originally, I'm from Yelloknife. Got tired of 8 mos of winter, so moved here, where we get a nice 3.5 mos instead.

[tkmadison]

At that point, JP's coming out wasn't for another few years, but considering the revelation, using strict gays agaist Kara would be moot, since we know that her powers worked on JP.

Did they work on any other men?


which quells naturally with my gripe against the media. Homosexuality is now becoming a fad - to be used as a 'quirk' or 'shock' medium. Ranks up there with the 'blaxpoitation' of the '70's - using something considered outside the norm that is quickly gaining acceptance as a gimmick (this is the prime reason I refuse to watch 'Will and Grace' and 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy'. I'm to a point where I'm ready to start boycotting them)

Exactly. I can understand the point that now that it seems to be becoming more and more mainstream to accept homosexuality, and thus more acceptable to portray homosexuals within comics, but at the same time there is that exploitation of a popular fad aspect. Especially when you dig up old characters and suddenly, out of the blue, announce they are gay. Ok I can accept that some characters might have been gay, or straight up were (bad pun, I know) but without alluding to it at all but for the faintest and subtlest of hints that could easily be explained in some other way, it just isn't credible. Gay characters? Sure, no problem...write up a new one. Could it be that hard? Do comic book writers know gay people? Aren't any of them gay? The underground comic book scene is filled with people who would love, I am sure, to be paid Marvel's writing wages and have been publishing out of their basement apartment for years. On top of that, they've been writing gay characters the whole time.

What I really want to see is some genuinely mental ill major characters. (Aurora, of course, being the only one of note) I'm not talking villains, either. How come we haven't seen a powerful mutant that's schizophrenic? I'd rather see some really well portrayed real human traits appear in comics rather than yet another ridiculous x-men storyline.

x-men used to be one of the only comics i ever read, now i won't go near it. Long gone are the days of Byrne, Claremont and Romita.


You never see Walt with a dog, doens't mean he's allergic. Again, an example of using a minority for it's shock value. Ranks up there with Morrison's 'outting' Beast in X-Men a few years ago - a ploy I have to agree with (even if I don't like Morrison's run). Morrison used Hank to demonstrate such media-shock values as a derogation.

Beast? Are you serious? What about Trish?


I'm in Revelstoke, in the mountains (about 5 hours west of Calgary).

I've been there several times. Very beautiful there!

[Barnacle13]

I like the idea of a new Guardian type character, so that the Hudsons can raise their child and take on more of a lead role off the field. I think MMJ is a bit too straight laced for this position. I always thought Radius, if he could get past his arrogance, would make a good leader. Dig him up and slap a suit on him. It wouldn't even need the EM forcefield function. I like giving the leader a new name to differentiate them from Guardian/Vindicator and Alpha Flight from other teams. I still like the moniker, Province, because it screams Canada and it establishes in a name what is most important to the team, protection and service to their homeland. Doesn't really matter who is in the suit, just that they are a strong leader, but a change might do the team good.

[HappyCanuck]

Beast? Are you serious? What about Trish?

Heh heh, that's where the rumour came from. As everyone knows, Hank's NOT gay, and he freely admitted to it being an emotional kick in the shins. See, during their last break-up, in which Trish broke up with HIM, Hank's big come-back was to falsly admitting he was gay, or ought to be. Not one for letting Hank have the last word, Trish took it to the next step by REPORTING on it, and, given Hank's celebrity, first because he was an Avenger, then later, after the X-Men became main-stream and almost respectable, it spead like wildfire. Only Hank didn't dispell the rumour, instead feeding it by not outright denying it. Now he's never ADMITTED to it (to my knowledge), but he's never DISMISSED it either. (I don't have the issue, so I don't know why they broke up this time - may have something to do with him now being (and this is a direct quote from New X-Men 115) 'Tony the Tiger on barbituits', but I don't know for a fact)

Heh, who needs soap operas when you have comics, eh?

[HappyCanuck]

I always thought Radius, if he could get past his arrogance, would make a good leader. Dig him up and slap a suit on him. It wouldn't even need the EM forcefield function... I still like the moniker, Province, because it screams Canada and it establishes in a name...

Heh, Barnacle.

Gee, I wonder where I heard that idea before...

(for those of you not in the loop; many, many, many moons ago, Barnacle, myself and several other members of this forum were part of a now-defunct - mainly due to the fact we can't FIND it - fanfic site called 'Second Flight', which took Alpha Flight to the jurisdiction of Marvel's near-defunct 'MC2' line [which, set 20 years into the future, had included such titles as A-Next, Fanstastic Five, J2, and still includes Spider-Girl, the only survivor of that set, plus a couple other titles]. One of the characters was a future-version of Radius as a semi-stable authority figure in the Flight, now going by the moniker 'Province'.)

[kozzi24]

Dk's confusion may have been that Kara's powers work via pheremones, although there is no sexual bvasis to them. Purple Man's powers had no sexual basis either.
Murmer used her powers flirtatiously, although I don't remember off the top of my head that her powers were ineffective against people who were not straight men.
DK, you should hunt down the 2 part of Kara's introduction. It was a solid story, and she started off as a likable character before she became one of Mantlo's mouthpieces for bashing the originals.

[tkmadison]

(I don't have the issue, so I don't know why they broke up this time - may have something to do with him now being (and this is a direct quote from New X-Men 115) 'Tony the Tiger on barbituits', but I don't know for a fact)

That's pretty much what the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: X-Men 2004 says about it in Beast's entry.


Heh, who needs soap operas when you have comics, eh?
:D What's the difference?

[HappyCanuck]

Murmer used her powers flirtatiously, although I don't remember off the top of my head that her powers were ineffective against
people who were not straight men.

I don't think Murmur's powers were necessarily sexual in nature, just that she was a tramp. Case in point: she used her powers primarily on Sasquatch II, who was prolly more interested in EATING her than screwing her. As for the Purple Family, I believe they were just using generic pheromones. (some how I doubt that old Jeb wanted to screw the corpses he rose, but that was all he COULD raise).

[Barnacle13]

I always thought Radius, if he could get past his arrogance, would make a good leader. Dig him up and slap a suit on him. It wouldn't even need the EM forcefield function... I still like the moniker, Province, because it screams Canada and it establishes in a name...

Heh, Barnacle.

Gee, I wonder where I heard that idea before...

(for those of you not in the loop; many, many, many moons ago, Barnacle, myself and several other members of this forum were part of a now-defunct - mainly due to the fact we can't FIND it - fanfic site called 'Second Flight', which took Alpha Flight to the jurisdiction of Marvel's near-defunct 'MC2' line [which, set 20 years into the future, had included such titles as A-Next, Fanstastic Five, J2, and still includes Spider-Girl, the only survivor of that set, plus a couple other titles]. One of the characters was a future-version of Radius as a semi-stable authority figure in the Flight, now going by the moniker 'Province'.)

Mind you I'm not saying necessarily he should be it. I just said I always liked that idea. Wonder why? They could pin that moniker on MMJ and improve him immediately. I just think he's too straightlaced to lead a team. I think there'd also have to be a big build up to the change in the guard. I think Guardian (Mac) should be the one to hand over the reins, even though Heather is/was a stronger leader and lasted much longer in that role. Make Puck the next leader and call him Province. Doesn't much matter to me who it is, but Mac and Heather should get on with child rearing and potentially desk jobs in the new AF organization. You gotta admit though the Second Flight stuff kicked butt!

Barnacle

[Barnacle13]

Whoops! Forgot to include I have sent Ben many of the Second Flight Stories to post here. I had about 8 of the 12 and a couple origins hanging around in old e-mails. I copied them into Word and send them on. Ben should be posting them in the Fanfic section of this forum at some point. I think there were a couple of pieces of artwork, too. I don't know who they belong to, but I had them on my PC. So....Uh hum....Ben, waiting on you , buddy!

[HappyCanuck]

You gotta admit though the Second Flight stuff kicked butt!

Barnacle

I do! That;s why I'm a) glad that you managed to resurrect some of the old chapters and b) sad that the rest was lost...

[tkmadison]

what would you do?

old team? new team? dept. h? independent?

what would you do to assure that the series stuck this time?


ah geez...
i just spent the past few days re-reading the first 60 issues of volume one and re-reading voume 2 in it's entirety.
What would i consider as a line up?

Sasquatch, for sure.
Aurora and Northstar were great
Puck (why not...even as a trainer)
Talisman
Box II
I liked the incarnation of Vindicator in volume 2 better than just 'a female version' of Guardian (and I am sick of the x-men-ish and utterly messed storyline of Mac-synth clones, so let's just keep him out altogether or have someone entirely different using his suit)
...
And maybe some new original characters.
There aren't any new additions from V3 that I am particularly fond of...
and Murmur just seemed to be a crappy knock-off of the Purple Girl. Ghost Girl was alright, so we could have her around. I never particularly liked Windshear...nor 'Yukon Jack.'

I guess that's about it on just an initial, off the top of my head list.

[HappyCanuck]

Me, I'd take AF back to the original plot outline described in the promo art for volume 2
(quoted below - anyone with a copy of X-Force #67 or any issues with the circulation date of June 1997 and access to a scanner should prolly scan them for the archives)


X-Force[/i] #67 - Promo (pages 37 - 39)]
"Memorandum 082166, Department H
Codename: ALPHA FLIGHT
Rogue Agents
Unwilling to comply with new Department H directives.
Funding eliminated.
Considered Dangerous.
USE EXTREME PREJUDICE IN APPREHENSION

Then goes to describe the members of issue #1. I got pissed at the series because the direction the actual series took was NOT what I was expecting.

Anyhoo: this premise is what I would use (similar to Alpha's 'criminalised' state during the Llan storyline, except less tacky). The first basic storyline would run at least 12 issues, with larger segues within the arc. The first thing I would do - as in, right at the opening of issues 1 - is have a hit-squad of Epsilons attack and kill several past and current members of the Flight, most especially Mac right in front of Heather (this time there would be NO WAY that Mac's death could be written off - he would be dead, kaput, deceased). Heather would also be attacked but not killed (I like her character too much for that - plus it's a rallying point), instead she'd be comatose for a while (length undeterminate at this junction). Then we see several other past members attacked, some killed and others get away. Some of the suriving members would be Walt, Eugene, Narya, and Flex (just because, other than Radius, all the members from V.2 thta weren't original members have been left in limbo, and Flex was the one character I liked of the new guys), who go out in search of other surviving members, hoping for the best. (Many second-stringers and former Beta/Gamma members will be brought in, many not surviving past issue 6).

In later issues, other former members will be hunted, and some will be either perminantly or temporarily rejoin the team (I have an idea for an attack at Xaviers, bringing JP (assuming he's still with the X-Men) and Logan into the story - Logan will be a VERY temporary member of the team [no, I won't kill him off, but not because I don't want to], and I'm yet undecided if JP will join back on in any fashion resembling permanence). There will be quite a bit of culling, and switchings of sides in the battle (some not so suspected), until the arc's climax in issue 12.

Meanwhile, we learn as we go that Department H is under brand new commandership - after the Board of Directors where all killed in a bloody coup. The new commander puts into motion effects that makes all surviving members not only wanted criminals (under the banner of 'national treason' - the only crime in Canada that's still punishable by the death penalty), but also national pariahs (yet to figure out what they are going to be framed for, but it'll be something big that labels them as terrorists on scale with Al-Qaeda).

Things build to a head until, on the last page of #11, we learn that the new Director of Department H is none other than 1301040919151400100506060518090519 (Don't wanna ruin the surprise 8) ; if you wanna know, figure out the code, but keep it to yourselves - don't ruin the surprise for others), and [their] new directive is to ban super-heroics in Canada, under the banner that super-heroes have caused more damage and caused more deaths in the last umpteen years than all natural disasters, terminal diseases and wars that's affected the nation, put together. Parliament is coerced to give DH a more cognitive role in National Security (they set themselves up only as an intra-national force, leaving international matters to the diplomatic corps and Department of National Defence), and 'marshal law' is enforced for all super-powered entities - not just mutants - and everyone - man, mutant or other - is forced to undergo genetic registration, the most dangerous of them either permanently incarcerated or destroyed. (Note: by the end of the arc, this hasn't gone into effect yet, and is only just becoming a law. Other than Alpha operatives, no other metahuman is subjected to this treatment - yet).

By the end, not only is Department H dismantled, but it's utterly destroyed. I'm not sure what happens to Alpha Flight afterwords, but they are reinstated as non-criminals. Whether or not they stay on in a more offical capacity is yet to be determined.

Okay, I know most of this sounds lame or completely stupid, but this is only a preliminary idea, and will need further developing. Suffice it to say, the line between 'hero' and 'villian' with certain characters is a VERY thing line, with people you'd least expect on each side of the law. It'd also include characters shown in all three previous volumes, some more than others.

[tkmadison]

Okay, I know most of this sounds lame or completely stupid, but this is only a preliminary idea, and will need further developing. Suffice it to say, the line between 'hero' and 'villian' with certain characters is a VERY thing line, with people you'd least expect on each side of the law. It'd also include characters shown in all three previous volumes, some more than others.

Not at all stupid.
THe problem with a lot of characters and titles is that their (yes, I realize that I am talking about comics here) lifespanis completely unrealistic.
If we are to believe that they truly are engaged in as gritty a war as we kept being told, one would expect the body count to be higher. Not just secondary characters, or new characters thrown in to die. For example, how many X-Men have actually died in the past thirty years? Hardly any at all.
Keep the books fresh and the writing challenging so that it draws people in. Marvel shouldn't be afraid to kill off it's characters.

[HappyCanuck]

I'm doing something we've all talked about - I'm writing my version of Alpha Flight volume 4, but I need your help. The following is a list of all known members of Alpha Flight. Please chose three (3) characters to either kill off or take out of action, and state how they will be taken out of action in square brackets (please put your initials in with your suggestion).

Not all selections will be chosen, but all suggestions will be acknowledged. Also, if I've missed anyone, please add them (please note, only characters who have been members or strong associates of Alpha Flight, Beta Flight, Gamma Flight and First Flight apply - this does not include regular guest stars, such as Namor, the Fantastic Four, or the Avengers, unless they have actually JOINED one of these teams)

ALPHA FLIGHT - CHARACTER LIST
Jean-Paul Beaubier
Jeanne-Marie Beaubier
Det. Bernard 'Groundhog'
Roger Bochs (deceased)
Adrian Corbo
Jared Corbo (deceased)
Lillian Crawley-Jefferies
Goblyn Dean
Laura Dean
Kyle Gibney
James MacDonald Hudson [deceased AC]
Heather Hudson [coma AC]
Colin Hume
Madison Jefferies
Jodi 'Stitch'
Eugene Judd
Kara Killgrave
Whitman Knapp
Walter Langkowski
Logan
Albert Louis
Manbot (deceased)
Mar
Chuck Moss
Narya
Nemesis
Rutherford Princeton
Lou Sadler Jr.
Saint Elmo
Marrina Smallwood (MIA)
Alec Thorne (deceased)
Arlette Trufault [deceased AC]
Elizabeth Twoyoungmen
Michael Twoyoungmen
Witchfire
Wyre
Zuzha Yu
Yukon Jack

(parentheses['(*)'] denote shown cases; brackets [' '] denote suggested cases )

[Cliff]

Why don't you start a new thread and create a poll for people to indicate thier favorite team members. You can set these polls up for multiple votes, but request that they limit thier votes to five members. The tracking will show who the most popular are and eleiminate ties much more efficiently and then you'll be able to get your "hit list" by default.

I only suggest this because it may be that Heather isn't the one that the majority want dead or in a coma or alive, for that matter, which would alter your plot. In a way, though, you'd get a list of characters that people want to have on the team and have to work within that parameter. A tougher task in a way, but one that the majority (by virtue of the poll) will be able to get into. Then, write it as a fan-fic here in the forums.

:)

[Ben]

Why don't you start a new thread and create a poll for people to indicate thier favorite team members. You can set these polls up for multiple votes, but request that they limit thier votes to five members. The tracking will show who the most popular are and eleiminate ties much more efficiently and then you'll be able to get your "hit list" by default.

I only suggest this because it may be that Heather isn't the one that the majority want dead or in a coma or alive, for that matter, which would alter your plot. In a way, though, you'd get a list of characters that people want to have on the team and have to work within that parameter. A tougher task in a way, but one that the majority (by virtue of the poll) will be able to get into. Then, write it as a fan-fic here in the forums.

:)

Well, anyone can set up a poll actually, so go for it if you like Cliff. Unfortunately, the forum poll doesn't have the capabilty for voting for several choices at once however so that would't really work all that well. I could write a special script, or find one most likely, but my time is pretty limited these days.

Ben

[Mokole]

How about a list and Cliff can compile it in a week or two? I know it could get pretty big but someone would just have to list all the members of AF (would Jade Dragon count? I say no)

Volume one I'd khave about5-7 in my list, then one or two from the Legacies, then two or three of the new ones from ANADAF.

[Cliff]

Heck, I'd even include BH6 as options. They're linked to Sunfire and he is linked to AF.

I'll put up a poll with "rules" tomorrow sometime, if you think it'll help ya. Plus, it'd be fun to see who the favorites are. What I can do is compile it all into Excel at 6:00pm Central US time each day for a couple of weeks. That way people can vote again the next day and still get counted plus get in thier "top five" or "top seven" depending on how many times they're able to vote over the duration of the poll.

I assume the poll results are user driven, meaning voting a second time erases a previous vote...

I can also change the poll to reflect originals, Vol 2 folks, Vol 3, Betas, etc.

[HappyCanuck]

actually, Cliff, I wanna limit myself to Canadian Nationals who were actually members of Alpha. I don't want the list TOO big. BH6 - except maybe Sunfire, I haven't decided -, tho good characters, aren't Alpha Character (Even if they did start in an Alpha spin-off limited). Same with Jade Dragon. Remember, this is for a story idea, and too many characters are hard to work with (hence why I'm killing off a slew of them)

[Barnacle13]

I have to admit, I like the idea, but I think you may write yourself into a corner with this. If the team is villified in the public's eyes, it will make it difficult to pull them out of the fire later without changing identities or something radical like that. I'd start it out as a covert war between Department H and Alpha Flight. Epsilon attacks and kills many second stringers and a few or the big guns (Mac in particular). Issue 12 would have Alpha utterly destroy Department H (building, machinery, special projects, employees, etc.). Now Alpha could be villified for that action against the government. The next several issues would surround the remaining Alpha members uncovering the conspiracy before Parliament and becoming a sanctioned team. Heather could recover from her injuries in 12 and be appointed the administrator of the newly formed Department Alpha. Eugene could move into a training role and help Heather raise her child. Walt could move into a field leader position, or put MMJ or someone else into the new Province suit (battlesuit or just fancy pajamas). I love the idea of he who you mentioned in code becoming the main villain. I think there is supporting stories for explaining the change. It'd also give Alpha a formidible foe to add to their rogues gallery.

As for my votes, I'd definitely add Flex to the team. Or have Radius recovered by the MoleMan and have him return. MMJ or Centennial would be my only choices from V3, well maybe Mar, but I'd change its name and make it female. Then I'd have Talisman, Sas, Puck, Wildchild to round out. A flyer wouldn't be a bad idea too. Maybe Northstar or Thunder.

Barnacle

[kozzi24]

A flyer wouldn't be a bad idea too.

I always thought it was a subtle reinforcement of the name (and maybe an inspiration for it) that most of Byrne's originals could fly, or at least appear to be flying.

Of the original six, four could fly. We learned later that Shaman could levitate, and theoretically, Sasquatch could do Hulk jumps.

Add Marrina, who can "fly" on water spouts as very seen in V1#1, and Puck, good enough with his acribatics to appear to be "flying" across a room or a street.

Next addition, Talisman, who can also levitate and be carried by air spirits she commands.

Add Box, with direct flight propulsion.

There you go, Alpha FLIGHT.

[HappyCanuck]

I have to admit, I like the idea, but I think you may write yourself into a corner with this.

You're right, Barney, in that I may be writing myself into a corner, but it's something I feel I have to do. Marvel won't take Alpha seriously, so I'm gonna. Hell, who know, might give them ideas. GOOD ideas.


If the team is villified in the public's eyes, it will make it difficult to pull them out of the fire later without changing identities or something radical like that... Now Alpha could be villified for that action against the government. The next several issues would surround the remaining Alpha members uncovering the conspiracy before Parliament and becoming a sanctioned team.

Now you are catching on - kinda! See, that's where Alpha needs to be: not as a sanctioned team where their rules are dictated by some idiot on Paliament Hill - God knows that hasn't worked in their entire history - but as a team who's only responcibility is to the nation of Canada, and not the government's self-serving motives. This will not only cause a potential villian out of the government (hell, they already HAVE been the villian), but with their rougher, tougher mandate to protect the nation from ALL threats - both inter- and intranationally - no matter what. Basically, they are no one's toys anymore. And they won't be changing identities: they will make their position known to the entire country, and let the people of the country - and the world - decide if they are right. Not saying it will go smoothly, but now's the time for radical changes.

As for my 'mystery character', I assume you fig'd out who it is :wink: . Good for you, but keep it under your hat. Let's leave SOMETHING as a surprise!


As for my votes, I'd definitely add Flex to the team. Or have Radius recovered by the MoleMan and have him return. MMJ or Centennial would be my only choices from V3, well maybe Mar, but I'd change its name and make it female. Then I'd have Talisman, Sas, Puck, Wildchild to round out. A flyer wouldn't be a bad idea too. Maybe Northstar or Thunder.

Barnacle

All really good ideas - some I might even use. However, to keep things fair, I'm not bringing Radius back to life, nor (to my chagrin) can I use Northstar or Wolverine officially in the team, as I want this series to run concurrently with actual Marvel history - meaning I can't use Northstar as long as he's an X-Man, nor can I kill Wolverine, as much as I'd like to (being on five titles and two teams, the dude needs a rest). As for the Guardian/Vindicator outfit, as long as Mac's dead (and trust me, with a six inch hole in his chest, he WILL be - irrefutably), and Heather's in her coma, the suit stays in limbo. Not saying it will be permanent, but for the duration of this particular arc, it will be.


On another note: Anyone interested in helping me with this series, I'd welcome the help.

[Barnacle13]

I think someone has to wear a similar suit. An icon for the team and nation to stand behind. Someone the villains can look at and say, " We need to take out the guy with the big maple leaf! He/she is obviously the leader of this outfit!" I'm not saying it should be Mac's battlesuit. In fact I'm all for a surper powered leader who just wears the coll PJs. I think the moniker of Guardian and Vindicator should go into retirement. Pull out sometihing new, fresh, and Canadian. That's why I like the name Province, but since I'm not Canadian I don't presume to know your culture well enough to believe a better name can't be chosen. You could have a villain from Trinidad-Tobago go by the name Guardian. Anyone could be a Guardian. Same goes for Vindicator. But what really says I'm the icon behind which my great nation stands against evil?

For the record, I'm not doubting that you can pull Alpha Flight out of any fire you put them in. But having them villified in the eyes of the public would be very difficult to overcome. Then perhaps that's part of the charm of the story. Like the X-men, citizens fear them because of what the government and hate groups have spread. Despite this, Alpha Flight continues to fight the good fight. I can see a mother snatching away her just saved baby and scowling at Sasquatch. "You're a menace! You could have killed my baby!" Sas:"Lady, I just saved the tyke from Wendigo! What do you want from me?"

[Cliff]

How's this for an argument against your current line of thinking: Aren't they already "villified"? I mean, they would be, wouldn't they? Particularly after the events in Vol2. Sheesh...if it were the American public and rumors of what basically ammounts to a huge hole where government monies were being poured into without anything but conspiracy and destruction to show for it, citizens would be pretty ticked.

I think the conspiracy angle is there purely in the sense that AF is up against making themselves out to be a team fighting for the Canadian way and not for some government program. As it stands, it'd be really easy to write public villification without any real stretch or complicated plot.

That said...I'm still backing you up on your endeavour to writer this out, but I'd suggest waiting to see the results of the first wave of the poll (which I'm compiling now) and see who the majority of us forum wackos want to see in the group. Build your plot around that.

[Barnacle13]

I guess you're right, though I still see the public's outrage being towards the government agency that allowed the monies to be wasted. Granted Alpha Flight is and has been the only real visible portion of that agency as far as the public is concerned. I'm all for any AF story line that does the team justice. I'd love to see them meet SHIELD at the border and send their @$$ packing. I like the idea of Big Hero Six and others allying themselves, but I wouldn't want that to be the main reason SHIELD backs off. Makes it seem like Alpha isn't strong enough on their own to turn them. Now if that kept someone like the Avengers from getting involved it might mean something. Supers deciding it's best to step down instead of squaring off against an evenly matched foe to prevent other countries from taking sides and escalating the situation.

[Cliff]

What I see is a situation where teams like Big Hero 6, China Force, whatever the remnants of the Soviet Super Soldiers are now (most are dead I think) and (oddly enough) The Great Lakes Avengers would all be capable of stepping up as other groups taken less seriously than SHIELD or the Avengers and form a sort of global super-group with a core of Alphans. Sort of a world-wide reserve list.

I do have a few questions regarding some names on the list from the previous page. If you folks can tell me more about these characters, I'd appreciate it. I remember Stitch in about the same capacity as Groundhog, but because she was such a peripheral character, she may not be worth bringing in except to kill off (lol). Same with GH, honestly, but for completeness, I'll toss her in.
Jodi 'Stitch'
Albert Louis
Chuck Moss
Saint Elmo
Like I said, I know about Stitch but a full name would be great, plus any other reference actually connecting her to AF. Albert Louis and Chuck Moss I don't recall at all, so any inbfo there will help. Saint Elmo may have been intended to refer to Ernest St.Ives (Deadly Earnest), who could indeed be around as a villain after he finishes slurping back together (lol). If it's meant to be someone else, just fill me in.

Thanks.

[Barnacle13]

Jodi 'Stitch'
Albert Louis
Chuck Moss
Saint Elmo


Let's see, Jodi was a First Flight member along with St. Elmo. They appeared in a Special. Was it 1994?

Chuck Moss is the pupil of Shaman. In fact Earthmover has appeared with the core team several times. In fact Sas calls him "the guy who's name I can never remember" In issue 5 or 6 of V3.

Albert Louis aka Feedback appeared late in V1. During all the Mutant Registration stuff if I remember right. He was being pusued by the Hardliners (I think) when Alpha pulled him outta the fire.

[HappyCanuck]

oops, I made a boo-boo. Saint Elmo (the only name given him), should be listed as 'deceased'. (He died in the same issue he was introed in)

And yes. the AF special was dated 1994

[Cliff]

Alrighy...found em all now with the Flashback name. St. Elmo died way back when, so he's a non-issue anyway.

Thanks a bunch.

[Cliff]

Well, I compiled a spread sheet in excel (nothing complicated - just a list) but there's too many options for a Poll. Too many Alphans, folks.

Now what?

[Mokole]

Who knows? Me, as I think today:

True Byrne AF
Puck
Sasquatch
Shaman

Post 'Byrne' AF
Box
Feedback
Windshear
Nemesis
Witchfire

Seagle AF
Ghost Girl
Flinch

Lobdell AF
Puck
Centenniel
Major Mapleleaf (already have Sasquatch and Nemesis)

[cmdrkoenig67]

actually, Cliff, I wanna limit myself to Canadian Nationals who were actually members of Alpha. I don't want the list TOO big. BH6 - except maybe Sunfire, I haven't decided -, tho good characters, aren't Alpha Character (Even if they did start in an Alpha spin-off limited). Same with Jade Dragon. Remember, this is for a story idea, and too many characters are hard to work with (hence why I'm killing off a slew of them)

Sunfire never officially joined right? I wouldn't include him or Jade Dragon.
I would include all official members(past and present)....and maybe all members of Beta and Gamma Flight teams? Still probably too many members, huh?

Dana

[Cliff]

Well, the main problem is that I was going to set this up as a poll so peopl ecould vote over a period of time, but the polling system for this board won't handle that many options - there's jsut too many dang Alphans!

I'm not sure how to do the list. I'll probably just post the list of names and tell people to pick thier top 8 (the number in the original team). Or maybe it can be the top ten and then I'll let the top eight with the most votes end up the "final team" to increase the suspense. (lol)

That'll work.

I'm at 10:00am US central time right now, so by 5:00pm today my time it'll be up in a separate thread in FanFic.

[HappyCanuck]

Man, this thread hasn't seen anything new in a while, so I'm gonna add to it.

I ran across this (http://www.collectortimes.com/2001_03/License.html) as I was surfing the net (for a COMPLETELY different thing - this was just an added surprise). Thought it was interesting, and not sure if anyone else has seen it, so fig'd I'd share it with the class...

[PWalk]

Man, this thread hasn't seen anything new in a while, so I'm gonna add to it.

I ran across this (http://www.collectortimes.com/2001_03/License.html) as I was surfing the net (for a COMPLETELY different thing - this was just an added surprise). Thought it was interesting, and not sure if anyone else has seen it, so fig'd I'd share it with the class...

I think this was mentioned elsewhere when we were talking about an animated series.

If I wrote Alpha Flight I would try and tie up alot of the dangling storylines with a huge offing of some characters burying them for good. First up Wyre. =D>

[cmdrkoenig67]

Aw c'mon PWalk...Wyre has great potential for...uh...well.....sigh...who am I kidding? He's good for cannon fodder...LOL.

Dana :D

[kozzi24]

Wyre's fine as an uneasy ally. Only fault I thought he really had was being a writer's favorite who took development time over too many issues. The book was alreay crowded when Wyre turned up in the 110's and he actually hung around till the end.

[Legerd]

Wyre was a great character, far better than any of the new 'Alphans' we've seen in the second or third books. I want to see him come back in V4 and become a full fledged member.

[syvalois]

Wyre was a great character, far better than any of the new 'Alphans' we've seen in the second or third books. I want to see him come back in V4 and become a full fledged member.

And die and horrible and painful death!

(I would be so pleased :twisted: :lol: =D> )

I'm usually against killing for killing but in he's case, I would make an exception :wink: :-s

[Legerd]

And die and horrible and painful death!

(I would be so pleased :twisted: :lol: =D> )

I'm usually against killing for killing but in he's case, I would make an exception :wink: :-s

Oh, Sylvie that's so cold. :.

[PWalk]

C'mon we all know Wyre was a pathetic attempt at "Cablizing" AF. Let's go and bring in this mysterious, tough as nails character who likes guns and dislikes shirts. :roll: His presence on a page made reading it all the more painful.

If I wrote AF vol. 4 the opening splash page would feature Nemesis slicing him up like Thanksgiving turkey. The finish would be him being smashed into the ground with a thunderous right cross courtesy of Sasquatch.
Afterwards I would explain the whole scene by having the characters tell how Wyre was misused by Lobdell Corp. in attempt to find secrets of Department H or something.

It would be a glorious first issue and one that everyone here would approve of because honestly no one would miss him after 5 minutes.

[Barnacle13]

I'm typically not for killing off characters of any type, because I figure a writer might be able to come along later and really breathe life into that character. Having said that, I'd miss Wyre for less than 5 minutes. I think his story has been told. Take Manbot with him and you really have my support. Maybe even throw in Murmur so folks don't think you're being sexist or anti-technology. I see a trend forming here. Alpha characters with that start with an "M" or and upside down one "W" a re ripe for the slaughter. Manbot, Murmur, Wyre, Manikin....wouldn't miss them long. Theory falls apart a bit when you look at Marrina, Witchfire, Windshear, and Wildchild. They seem to have a following to some degree. I'd still rather be named something with an "S". Sas, Shaman, and even Stitch get more press here than those "M" guys.

[PWalk]

I would be all for thinning AF's ranks by a massive killing spree. I'd write it so that many of them would have a heroic death in the face of great adversity.
Some examples:
Windshear would go down firing in a blaze of "hard air" as he perishes fighting off a swarm of Plodex mutoids.

Persuasion bites the bullet when her power proves useless on a Plodex and her head is quickly torn off by the aliens weapon of choice.


Manbot self detonates it/himself to close a portal leading to the Plodex homeworld.

Goblyn is mistaken for a Plodex spawn by the RCMP and shot down by friendly fire while battling the Plodex in downtown Montreal.

Silver and Auric fall under the heels of a Plodex juggernaut making its way across the prairies of Manitoba. They put up a good fight but they are alone and simply cannot stop the rampaging alien alone.

I could go on and on eliminating most of the cast from the last 20 years in a similar fashion. The fact remains that the book would rock with literal non stop action for the first 2 or 3 issues. Many would fall but in the finale there would be forged a team that is truly battle hardened and indebted to each of it's fellow members.

[HappyCanuck]

Silver and Auric fall under the heels of a Plodex juggernaut making its way across the prairies of Manitoba. They put up a good fight but they are alone and simply cannot stop the rampaging alien alone.

Wouldn't killing Silver (or is it Auric?) be a bit moot since s/he's already dead?!

As for the mass slaughter - tho I'm not adverse to the notion - why is everyone so eager to kill off Kara, Laura, Goblyn and Whit?! Mantlo may not have been the best at using characters effectively, but these characters - esp Kara Goblyn and Whit - have a LOT of potential under the right writer (not Furman, tho. what he did to Whit... I'd retcon that ASAP).

[PWalk]

Wouldn't killing Silver (or is it Auric?) be a bit moot since s/he's already dead?!
I'll be honest I thought they/ it were dead already but being at work I couldn't look it up. All the more reason to kill em' off in grand fashion I say



As for the mass slaughter - tho I'm not adverse to the notion - why is everyone so eager to kill off Kara, Laura, Goblyn and Whit?! Mantlo may not have been the best at using characters effectively, but these characters - esp Kara Goblyn and Whit - have a LOT of potential under the right writer (not Furman, tho. what he did to Whit... I'd retcon that ASAP).

I have always liked the idea of Goblyn. I just don't see the character fitting into a series very well anymore. Off the top of my head (at work) I can't recall what her last appearance was like but I'm not against offering her in a scene where it's purely an accident. That brings drama to the scene and books need that emotional twist when dealing with mass offings.

EDIT: On another note though couldn't it be said that Goblyn was just another way to fill the roster with the ever popular Wolverine/ Sabertooth clone. At the time of her debut (86?) Marvel's teams were all recruiting the feral, uncontrollable character. It seemed like teams needed to have a prerequisite leader, strong guy, wise guy, attractive female, and with the success of Wolvie a feral claw and scratch character to be considered a rounded group. Goblyn filled that roll at the time. Same as Wild Child did when he came back as Weapon X.

[HappyCanuck]

Well, for that matter, that sort of killing would work with ANY character.

[PWalk]

Well, for that matter, that sort of killing would work with ANY character.

True, what would be so bad with killing off Shaman? You could fill the role with Talisman or *shudder* Earthmover.

[Barnacle13]

Silver and Auric fall under the heels of a Plodex juggernaut making its way across the prairies of Manitoba. They put up a good fight but they are alone and simply cannot stop the rampaging alien alone.

Wouldn't killing Silver (or is it Auric?) be a bit moot since s/he's already dead?!

As for the mass slaughter - tho I'm not adverse to the notion - why is everyone so eager to kill off Kara, Laura, Goblyn and Whit?! Mantlo may not have been the best at using characters effectively, but these characters - esp Kara Goblyn and Whit - have a LOT of potential under the right writer (not Furman, tho. what he did to Whit... I'd retcon that ASAP).

I'm not for offing Kara, Laura, or Goblyn (well maybe Goblyn). Whit, I'm kinda up in the air on. I think he's OK as a background character (Shaman's lab lackey). Laura could be very useful on a limited basis. Makes transportation problems a thing of the past. She'd be great to pull in after an Alpha Jet crash and burn. Kara has always been a favorite of mine. She, Talisman, Wildchild, and Diamond Lil are the only other characters I consider to be Alpha Flight, besides the originals. All the others are Beta or Gamma at best.

[kozzi24]

It's been said that there's no bad characters, just bad writers. I don't know that the statement's totally true, but there's a lot to be said for it.

Windshear's been established as now residing back in the UK. What purpose does killing him off possibly have. He's already removed from Alpha's immediate sphere, he has powers and background that could still drive a few good stories.

Silver and Auric are dead. There was a Spider-Man/New Warriors arc that ran through the annuals one year...ONE of the twins died in that arc. Furman did a follow-up in AF #121 that established that they both died.

I'm not for randomly killing characters just because they're dead weight, bercause some other writer on some other title may find use for them, and stories of mass killing can have a shock value, but usually lack emotional depth. You'd lose the impact of Goblyn being killed if she was just one of many deaths in an arc, even if none of the other victims had been around as long.

Or think of it this way...it takes page space away from more deserving characters just to bring in a dead-wood character to kill him.

[HappyCanuck]

I'm more of a mentality of PROVING a character's worth before giving them the axe. To me Goblyn, Manikin, Witchfire and Purple Girl/Goofy Grape/Persuasion (whatever she was going by that week) all had aLOT of potential, but none of the writers were accomplished enough to use them appropriately.

[Barnacle13]

Like I said before I'm not an axer either. I believe there is someone out there who can make Manbot interesting to someone, but I doubt he'll ever have interest enough for me. If the death is poignant to the story than go for it, but if it's just to weed out characters you don't like then show you don't like them by leaving them out of your stories.

[syvalois]

I'm not for mass mudering also. I usually find those stories without believable emotions et repetitive. No for Wire, he would be the only one to die very, very slowly and painfully. Like I had to suffer him for month and months in AF reading to much stuff about him. He as to suffer!!

As for Murmur... Ok, I already planned something for her, makes her usefull for once. For a new serie,in issue 7 , I would have heather receive a phone call saying Murmur commited suicide, that would lead the team with the rest of Hull House characters at Hull house and discover there secret. Finish that story, Flex and all the rest go back in limbo but with a happy ending.

[PWalk]

As for Murmur... Ok, I already planned something for her, makes her usefull for once. For a new serie,in issue 7 , I would have heather receive a phone call saying Murmur commited suicide, that would lead the team with the rest of Hull House characters at Hull house and discover there secret. Finish that story, Flex and all the rest go back in limbo but with a happy ending.

I like that. Would be nice to round up that story.

[Mokole]

Another way to resolve the Legacies would be to have them lose their powers as all they had were augmentations that broke down over time.

[HappyCanuck]

Another way to resolve the Legacies would be to have them lose their powers as all they had were augmentations that broke down over time.

Wouldn't work for the most part. Radius was the kid of a known superhuman, thus his powers were natural. We would assume the rest to be the same.

[Legerd]

I'm not for mass mudering also. I usually find those stories without believable emotions et repetitive. No for Wire, he would be the only one to die very, very slowly and painfully. Like I had to suffer him for month and months in AF reading to much stuff about him. He as to suffer!!

As for Murmur... Ok, I already planned something for her, makes her usefull for once. For a new serie,in issue 7 , I would have heather receive a phone call saying Murmur commited suicide, that would lead the team with the rest of Hull House characters at Hull house and discover there secret. Finish that story, Flex and all the rest go back in limbo but with a happy ending.

I'd rather see a story where someone is murdering the kids from Hull House which brings the place to the attention of AF. Along the way they learn the secrets of the orphanage and its connection to Dept. H, before a climatic confrontation with the villain. Characters like Murmur, Ghost Girl and Flex could be gotten rid of (rather than leave them in limbo) and some of the loose threads from V2 could be tied up.

And I don't see why there's so much hostility towards Wyre. So he's a little Cable-esque, do you get rid of Deadpool, the Punisher, Bishop and any other anti-hero with a hankering for big guns? What I liked about the guy was he didn't whine and moan about whether he was good enough to be in AF, he had a fairly unique power, plenty of untapped history from which a writer could draw from and he was actually competent! The man could handle himself in a fight. If the biggest problem people have with him is he's a cookie cutter character (say that fast five times) than you must have a short list of books you read, because there are few truly original characters out there anymore.

[PWalk]

And I don't see why there's so much hostility towards Wyre. So he's a little Cable-esque, do you get rid of Deadpool, the Punisher, Bishop and any other anti-hero with a hankering for big guns? What I liked about the guy was he didn't whine and moan about whether he was good enough to be in AF, he had a fairly unique power, plenty of untapped history from which a writer could draw from and he was actually competent! The man could handle himself in a fight. If the biggest problem people have with him is he's a cookie cutter character (say that fast five times) than you must have a short list of books you read, because there are few truly original characters out there anymore.

Maybe it was the way he was forced upon us readers. At the time I took the character as just another feeble attempt at introducing a character with a gun and blowhard attitude. I'll be honest I don't like Cable, Deadpool or the rest of that lot. Maybe it's the fact that I can't stand Liefeld, maybe it's the fact that those characters were more shallow than a kiddie pool? To me Wyre was nothing more than a guy with nasty back hair with an itchy trigger finger. I thought he was an inside joke at first to be honest. A writer creating a character to take shots at what was quickly becoming an establishment in comics at the time, the uber gun toting mutant wannabe.

[syvalois]

I'd rather see a story where someone is murdering the kids from Hull House which brings the place to the attention of AF. Along the way they learn the secrets of the orphanage and its connection to Dept. H, before a climatic confrontation with the villain. Characters like Murmur, Ghost Girl and Flex could be gotten rid of (rather than leave them in limbo) and some of the loose threads from V2 could be tied up.


Ok, I see why you like Wyre and I don't. You like carnage, big guns and violence? I don't, well, not like that. I don't like free violence, it got to serve a purpose. Except for Wyre death, it would only be for fun:P

I think Murmur suicide would give the story more powers, start for a character you knew and did not really liked, give her depth and better understanding, in her living she did not had depth, at least in her death give her dignity. Plus, mass murdering is not "Canadian" suicide is more a subject everyone been in contact with, more realistic and we could see a lot more the interection in there. In real life, if AF saw mass murdering, some would be so messed up many would need psychiatric help, nervous break down, etc. We never see that, and that's why I think it would be just action boring and free violence. For the same reason, I would keep the other characters alive. I'm tired of free violence.




And I don't see why there's so much hostility towards Wyre. So he's a little Cable-esque, do you get rid of Deadpool, the Punisher, Bishop and any other anti-hero with a hankering for big guns? What I liked about the guy was he didn't whine and moan about whether he was good enough to be in AF, he had a fairly unique power, plenty of untapped history from which a writer could draw from and he was actually competent! The man could handle himself in a fight. If the biggest problem people have with him is he's a cookie cutter character (say that fast five times) than you must have a short list of books you read, because there are few truly original characters out there anymore.

Wyre represent free violence. I just hate that. I did not like Wildchild at that time too (Byrne Wildchild had my interest). I did not find does characters believable. In the same time too many characters where created with the same cool personality "I'm tough, I'm cool and I've got big Guns, I don't have an head, but that don't matters" I don't like winning characters also, but I like intelligent plot and good personification" Those characters and in this case particulary, Wyre was used as a plot devise for Wildchild, he served no other purpose, give nothing more to AF except put them more in the evil Departement H or whaterver evil gouv. thing which do not work for me. (Where do they take that money? My taxes? It's worst than the sponsorship scandal!!!) You know, the canadian feeling? that did not help. So basically, Wyre was taking AF in a direction I did not like, so that's why I think I hate him that bad. Plus Major Mapleleaf senor, because I though he was a joke and ruined JP coming out.

I liked Deadpool, not the Liefield crap but when other writters wrote him, but depth in him, like cable too. They get away from the stereotype crap. I hate stereotype (can I say Mantlo Aurora?) I liked Deadpool because he was so crazy, it gave him a unique status that I liked. Cable was not my favorite, but under a good writer he could be interesting. I like complex characters, not "my guns going to solved everything" characters. I just hate that. Bishop, I never really liked. Gambit? Interesting but got used to much in the"cool" aspect and he was winning to much over Rogue, I got bored. I like the middle ground.

I could probably say more but my mind can't think anymore.[/quote]

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I'd start with volume 1 #28A - big HULK/AF fight (with no preferential treatment to the "established character"). THE MASTER would come back in a big way. OMEGA FLIGHT would be revamped. Dept. H would get downsized (long overdue).

Oh, and THE GREAT BEASTS would kick butt.

It's amazing that the best rendition in a long while of TANARAQ (written and drawn) is in the first part of the recent EXILES story.

[syvalois]

[quote]I'd rather see a story where someone is murdering the kids from Hull House which brings the place to the attention of AF. Along the way they learn the secrets of the orphanage and its connection to Dept. H, before a climatic confrontation with the villain. Characters like Murmur, Ghost Girl and Flex could be gotten rid of (rather than leave them in limbo) and some of the loose threads from V2 could be tied up.


Ok, I see why you like Wyre and I don't. You like carnage, big guns and violence? I don't, well, not like that. I don't like free violence, it got to serve a purpose. Except for Wyre death, it would only be for fun:P

And I just wanted to add, Burn@ (my boyfriend who sometimes like say stuff here) likes those characters Cable, Bishop, Spawn, he likes comics as a get away, he likes to see a comics, the text is not that important for him. He really liked Batman vs predator. He thinks, what I like is too f... up for him, too cerebral :P :mrgreen: What can I say, two men fighting for a stupid reason, even if the drawing is good don't interest me for long. Must be my lack of testosterone... ok, I'm saying a stereotype again. D'oh! #-o ](*,)

[Legerd]

Ok, I see why you like Wyre and I don't. You like carnage, big guns and violence? I don't, well, not like that. I don't like free violence, it got to serve a purpose.

I don't like carnage or violence "for the sake of..." either. If the story calls for death and dismemberment, fine; if it's thrown in to make the story 'kewl' then I'm not impressed. What I liked about Wyre was he was trying to redeem himself, to make up for past sins. I liked the fact he was confident and skilled when everyone else in AF continuously wondered if they were good enough to be heroes.


Wyre represent free violence. I just hate that. I did not like Wildchild at that time too...

To me Wyre's inclusion in AF was to create a backstory for Wild Child that had depth greater than simply: "he was another feral mutant with a mysterious past". Since Wild Child was created to be a viscious killer his creator would most likely also be one. Makes sense, no? Free violence is a part of Marvel comics (if not real life) so characters like these two are going to appear.


So basically, Wyre was taking AF in a direction I did not like, so that's why I think I hate him that bad.

Fair enough.


I'd rather see a story where someone is murdering the kids from Hull House which brings the place to the attention of AF. Along the way they learn the secrets of the orphanage and its connection to Dept. H, before a climatic confrontation with the villain. Characters like Murmur, Ghost Girl and Flex could be gotten rid of (rather than leave them in limbo) and some of the loose threads from V2 could be tied up.

I can see why you thought I was into mass murder and random violence Sylvie, it wasn't my intention with that idea however. I thought it would be cool if someone was murdering the Hull House kids, because it would lead to the mystery of the orphanage being investigated. As we get deeper into why someone wants so badly to get rid of the kids, we learn what connection Dept. H had with HH, for how long and who was ultimately behind it all. Not a story with a lot of muscle flexing, rather a more cerebral murder mystery (which I love). Of course to have a murder mystery you have to have a murder or two, and in the end the prerequisite fight to entertain the 'knuckledraggers'. :wink:

To stop this from going any farther off topic I'll end my ramblings now. :)

[syvalois]

I don't like carnage or violence "for the sake of..." either. If the story calls for death and dismemberment, fine; if it's thrown in to make the story 'kewl' then I'm not impressed. What I liked about Wyre was he was trying to redeem himself, to make up for past sins. I liked the fact he was confident and skilled when everyone else in AF continuously wondered if they were good enough to be heroes.

I agree that in that time, pretty much all AF where winning about something. I was not really connecting with any characters and actually I did not much liked the stories most of all those related to Wildchild or that wildheart periode. i did not cared at all about what willchild had became, So I was even less please with Wyre.


To me Wyre's inclusion in AF was to create a backstory for Wild Child that had depth greater than simply: "he was another feral mutant with a mysterious past". Since Wild Child was created to be a viscious killer his creator would most likely also be one. Makes sense, no? Free violence is a part of Marvel comics (if not real life) so characters like these two are going to appear.

the very articulated Wildchild who had a killer insticnt and liked it, seems interesting. A new twist on the basic feral character, but like I said earlier, at the point I really, really, really did not cared about him (sorry to all wildchild fans out there). But it's also true, I like characters more like Claremont's Colossus, Claremont's Magic, Peter David's Quicksilver, Byrne's Heather, Nocenti's Daredevil.

As for free violence, yes it's there, it's part of it. I liked some of the most violent stuff in comic books like V for Vendetta, Watchmen, Kill your boy friend, very dark stuff in the Vertigo line, but I think it's just a matter of taste and what was done in the end of AF serie and most of all , all the wildchild development including Wyre, bored me to death.





I can see why you thought I was into mass murder and random violence Sylvie, it wasn't my intention with that idea however. I thought it would be cool if someone was murdering the Hull House kids, because it would lead to the mystery of the orphanage being investigated. As we get deeper into why someone wants so badly to get rid of the kids, we learn what connection Dept. H had with HH, for how long and who was ultimately behind it all. Not a story with a lot of muscle flexing, rather a more cerebral murder mystery (which I love). Of course to have a murder mystery you have to have a murder or two, and in the end the prerequisite fight to entertain the 'knuckledraggers'. :wink:
:)

Funny because it's the same goal I had with Murmur suicide. No need for mass murder. Her depth would lead the team to hull House and force the truth to come out because AF and Flex and lily would like to understand why she did that. Maybe find her diary (how convinient!) But the rest of the story can goes as you planned.[/quote]

[jemini169]

For years I have been toying with what Canada (and specifically the Alphans) might have been doing during the Age of Apocalypse. Some characters were already tied into the AoA storyline, so those characters would be omitted. Essentially, the remaining Alphans would be freedom fighters of sorts.
The major villians would be minions under Apcoalypse (kinda like MikHail Rasputin). The baddies would be:
The Master (trying to gain control of Canada from Apocalypse)
Master's minions would include: Omega flight and Flashback
Purple Death (Purple Man)
Purple Death's minions would include: Wicked Ernest (Deadly Ernest), Witchfire and Scramble.
Here's some characters and how I might handle them:
The Tribe (a group within the group)- Shaman, Talisman and Totem (Totem is Shaman's wife, Michael had her spirit saved into a totem allowing Katherine the ability to change animal forms).
Heather and James Hudson - both non-powered freedom fighters. Both are alot colder. They wear military style outfits.
Puck- Similar custome to original, but he's a lot more scarred and worn.
Diamond Lil- missing a breast due to breast cancer, besides that her costume is very similar.
Sasquatch - keeps his "sasquatch" form secret.
Warbird- a much darker Snowbird.


The major storyline would include the freedom fighters trying to save Laura Dean from the Master.

Other characters I would consider using are: Manikin, Persuasion (possible working under her Dad), Goblyn (since Laura's a major part of the story), Smart Alec, Nemesis (still with a mad-on for Ernest).

Whatcha think?

[HappyCanuck]

Hi Jemini, welcome to the forum.

For the most part, I think it looks good, except a few things that need tweaking.

[Ben]

Sounds really cool jemini169! you should write that as a fanfic. I'd be glad to put it online for you :)

Welcome to Alpha Waves, the midgets in the cupboard don't have have evil spirits trapped inside them, they're just little.

Ben

[Phil]

Does vodka count as an evil spirit?

[HappyCanuck]

Does vodka count as an evil spirit?

Yes Phil, it does, vodka is the most evil of spirits, but lucky for us the little guys in the cupboard prefer Royal Reserve rye whiskey.

Oh, and Ben, calling them 'midgets' is a serious politically correct no-no. They prefer to be called 'little people', or 'dwarves', or name themselves after Shakespearean characters...

[Legerd]

Hey jemini169, that's a cool idea! I always wondered what the 'human' members of AF were up to in AoA too. Do you think AoA Shaman would have risked freeing the Great Beasts to try to stop Apocolypse?

[jemini169]

Great idea Legerd. That would be an interesting pre-story. My thinking would be that it was unsuccessful and that some Great Beasts remain and possibly work with Apocalypse (or just hang around and create havoc).

That decision would definitely impact the other Alphans view of Shaman, but in the AoA world, Shaman would not lose a great deal of sleep due to "the views others have of him."

[Scarlettspiderg]

I could always see Mac and Heather trying to build the Guardian battlesuit during AOA, but without its flight capabilities. Kinda of like a lower version of the 616 one.

It would be slightly bulkier and Mac/Heather would be leading a squad of Canadians (each one with similar suits - and the suits are constantly in need of repair, as no-one has the budget to fully build them) against Apocalypse armies!

[Garry/Al-Fan]

A lot of people want to kill off a lot of characters. [If WHITMAN KNAPP is on the top of the hit-list, I can get with the program]

How many Alpha/Beta/Gamma/whatever members are there now, anyway?

Who can do a story with Whitman Knapp, Kara Kilgrave, and the Dean twins [or WYRE, for that matter] that will re-launch ALPHA FLIGHT and keep it going longer than twelve issues? Anyone?

[HappyCanuck]

Another little interesting tidbit: according to map thats on the X-Facts page (that talks about the intentions of AOA) on the first issue of most of the runs, most of Western Canada is listed as 'Badlands - scattered human hideouts', and everything North of the Wall of Apocalypse - which runs pretty much from Vancouver to the Western most point of Hudson's Bay- is completely cut off from the workd, including Nunavut and the Eye of the World.

Would be interesting if these people, instead of living in the Badlands (which is the Northern-most area still under Pockie's boot), they lived in the 'no-man's land' north of the Wall...

[Mokole]

I think the no-man's land would be good for an AF story-series. If I remember it was badlands as in nuclear wasteland.

Seems, as always, there's a ton of good AF stories to be plumbed from 616, AoA, Ultimate,.....