Sasquatch vs. Wendigo

[tkmadison]

I dunno about you guys, but I always thought it would have made more sense for a Wendigo character as opposed to a Sasquatch character (yes, I realize that there is a Wendigo in the Marvel Universe, but he wouldn't make much of a team-mate, would he?) to be on the team.
Sasquatch is everywhere, including the U.S....the Wendigo "capital of the world" is right here in Canada.
Of course, you could always have both...I'm not particularly fond of the Marvel version of the Wendigo since it's not actually an accurate portrayal.

Any thoughts?

[Cliff]

They'd established Wendigo as a villian prior to AF coming about, I think. Any one know the timing? But there's no reason Walter couldn't just change his handle... :)

[DelBubs]

I think the thing here is that the term ' Sasquatch' is more universally known than 'Wendigo'. Until I read Alpha, I had never even heard of the word.

[HappyCanuck]

They'd established Wendigo as a villian prior to AF coming about, I think. Any one know the timing? But there's no reason Walter couldn't just change his handle... :)

The character Wendigo shares a common first appearance with Wolverine: Incredible Hulk # 181 (tho iirc, it was shown proir to being named in 180, for a quick page)


Sasquatch is everywhere, including the U.S....the Wendigo "capital of the world" is right here in Canada.
Of course, you could always have both...I'm not particularly fond of the Marvel version of the Wendigo since it's not actually an accurate portrayal.

Any thoughts?

Actually, the 'Sasquatch Capitol of the World' IS Canada - they are more known around the Rocky Mountains in Canada (and have been said to be spotted five times in as many years not too far from where I live). In the US, Sasquatch and Wendigo have been legends around the same amount of time, with different locations - Sasquatches are generally spotted in the Rocky Mountain areas, while Wendigoes are more Plains legends

Then of course you have the 'fuzzy proto-humanoids' from other locations, such as the Yeti of western Asia...

[tkmadison]

Actually, the 'Sasquatch Capitol of the World' IS Canada
Welll I've never heard Canada in it's entirety referred to as Sasquatch capital of the world...I had always assumed that Oregon held that distinction.

As for the Wendigo, Kenora, Ontario (more accurately an area just west of it which is currently called Rat Portage - which is a mistaken interpretation of a name that meant muskrat) holds the distinction of being the Wendigo Capital of the World, and this is first distinguished in a book by Algernon Blackwood entitled "The Wendigo," which was written around the turn of the 20th century.
There is no way that the Marvel Universe Wendigo at all resembles what a 'real' wendigo is supposed to be, nor could Sasquatch simply just change his name and leave it at that.


Then of course you have the 'fuzzy proto-humanoids' from other locations, such as the Yeti of western Asia...
Yes the "Sasquatch/Bigfoot/etc.." legends are all around the world.
Small wonder we haven't seen a Chupacabra hero/villain in comics...

I guess having Wendigo as a member of Alpha Flight wouldn't be practical..
Basically the legend translates to a Native American version of Pan, or a cautionary tale against cannibalism.
Unfortunately, I feel that Alpha FLight has been riddled with poor writing throughout all of it's incarnations.
This country of ours produces so much incredible talent, it seems hard to believe that Marvel couldn't find a writing team to take up the project and produce something better than what we've seen...particularly these most recent AF incarnations...yecchh[/quote]

[HappyCanuck]

Actually, what's real interesting, the earliest meantion of the curse of the wendigo goes back to the late 1700's and early 1800's in central Alberta, during the days of the Hudson's Bay Company, specifically near Rocky Mountain House that was once a trading post for the HBC. A trader wrote about it in his journal - about how the Natives he dealt with would warn him about eating the flesh of certain types of bears (such as Kodiak or Grizzlies which are common in that area, as well as this area - and, I was surprised to find out, are two seperate breeds of bear), since, according to Native myth and legends for the tribes in that area, those bears are said to be the ancient ancestors of man - they're even said to harbour the souls of man, acting as gate keepers to the great beyond (this is according to an Elder I keep in contact with for my studies in theology, mythology and legend.)

The Chipewyan (no, I didn't spell that right) of Northern Alberta and Southern Northwest Territories also have deep-rooted faith-bases around the legends of the Sasquatch, believing them to be a direct link between the Sacred Dead and the living - Just as the Aurora Borealis (under a different name which I can't pronounce let alone spell) is said to be the spirits of the Divine Ancestors of the Chip, and Ursa Major and Minor (the constellation in which Polaris, the Northstar lies) are considered the Guardians of the Crow people. (Noticing a trend here? :D ) Tie this into the fact that Shamans of the Sarcee were said to be - according to the paranoid white settlers of the time - 'soul-stealers', and that the Snowy Owl (also called the Snowbird in the Dene tongue) was said to be the Trickster Raven's consort/warden, makes you wonder if Byrne chose those names arbitrarily, or if he had a reason behind them :?:

And ppl said my studies wouldn't amount to anything... :wink:

[kozzi24]

Not arbitrary choices on Byrne's part. The man did his research. Even the names Puck and Nemesis represented characters closer to the origins of the terms than many people realize. The only name he seemed to have a problem with was what to call the leader in the battlesuit.

[tkmadison]

Actually, what's real interesting, the earliest meantion of the curse of the wendigo goes back to the late 1700's and early 1800's in central Alberta, during the days of the Hudson's Bay Company, specifically near Rocky Mountain House that was once a trading post for the HBC.

Well I don't deny that the legend went far beyond the area of NorthWest Ontario/Minnesota. And I don't mean that the legend first came to be known at the turn of the 19th century, only that is when white people declared the area "Wendigo Capital of the World."
That there are variations on the same legend across the country in different bands does not surprise me one bit.

The Wendigo legend that I am most familiar with does not really resemble the Wendigo/Sasquatch amalgam of the west.
The NWO Wendigo is a thin creature- so thin that when it stands sideways you cannot see it...a shapeshifter...it stalks you in the forest and moves so fast that when you turn around to confront it, it is already gone behind you (hence the Pan comparison), and in some instances it is said that the Wendigo is what a human has turned into after developing a taste for human flesh.

Obviously there are variations of this basic legend across the country and continent. Bigfoot/Sasquatch seems to have similar traits out west, and yet they aren't entirely the same.

As for Bears as the guardians...i think that's almost standard right across the board. A friend of mine is bear clan, come to think of it, and he is Anicinabe.

And yes, some of the mythology-character tie-ins in the book are great.
I never really got what a diseased midget had to do with Puck, tho. :wink:

[Le Messor]

Maybe Sasquatch won't change his name because Wendigos are evil (especially MU Wendigos) and Sasquatches are good?

- Le Messor
"Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot."

[tkmadison]

Maybe Sasquatch won't change his name because Wendigos are evil (especially MU Wendigos) and Sasquatches are good?

I don't really want to see a name change ...
...
I wanna see a Wendigo that doesn't just look like a white Sasquatch!

[HappyCanuck]

Maybe Sasquatch won't change his name because Wendigos are evil (especially MU Wendigos) and Sasquatches are good?

I don't really want to see a name change ...
...
I wanna see a Wendigo that doesn't just look like a white Sasquatch!

If Walt DOES change his name, I think he should take on Tanaraq - maybe use it as a guise to become a bad guy (for some reason, I think Walt would make a good bad guy - better than Sabretooth and Wendigo)

[kozzi24]

I never really got what a diseased midget had to do with Puck, tho

A dwarf, not a diseased midget.
Appearance and powers, hockey Puck, small and condensed and able to do a lot of damage bouncing around, and characterwise the Shakespearean Puck.

[Le Messor]

Well, Wendy came first. But he has a tail, and Sas doesn't.

Sas already took the name 'Tanaraq' and became a bad guy.

- Le Messor
"Bart! Lisa! I'm tired of you saying your bad dreams have something to do with the mysterious disappearance of Groundskeeper Willie!"
"But we never mentioned him!"

[Le Messor]

Oh, yeah... One of the things I've always loved about Wendigo / Alpha is that, though he's a huge, recurring villain for them, he's never appeared ('cept maybe in flashback) in their own book. To me, that's just kinda cool - like how Mac never used his 'teleport' within AF (Though Heather did).

- Le Messor
"Again, wrong sister. I’m the one that dates dead guys. And no offense but they were hotties. I mean, I’m sure you had a great personality…"
- Buffy

[tkmadison]

A dwarf, not a diseased midget.
Appearance and powers, hockey Puck, small and condensed and able to do a lot of damage bouncing around, and characterwise the Shakespearean Puck.

Dwarf, right. As for diseased, I'm pretty sure that was a story arc in the original series.
I dunno if 'appearance and powers' of a hockey puck is what i'd describe him as having. After all, we all know that hockey pucks don't have mystical powers. :wink:

As for the Shakespearean (Bacon!) character, I dunno if he really resembles him, either. I personally don't recall him souring any milk in any series. :D
And he doesn't really resemble a goblin-like woodspirit. Stature - yeah, maybe more like a hockey puck.

[tkmadison]

Well, Wendy came first. But he has a tail, and Sas doesn't.

Sas already took the name 'Tanaraq' and became a bad guy.

Still, my point is that I don't think that Wendigo should look like Sasquatch...doesn't matter who came first...
They made a big blunder waaaaaay back in Hulk 180.

[Legerd]

I dunno if 'appearance and powers' of a hockey puck is what i'd describe him as having. After all, we all know that hockey pucks don't have mystical powers. :wink:

I think the hockey reference fits him perfectly; he's small, fast and can knock people's teeth out. :)

[HappyCanuck]

Still, my point is that I don't think that Wendigo should look like Sasquatch...doesn't matter who came first...
They made a big blunder waaaaaay back in Hulk 180.

Actually, according to legend, they DIDN'T make a mistake. Wendigoes and sasquatches are supposedly similar in appearance (huge, protohumans with a lot of hair). THe only major difference is that Wendigoes are flesh-eaters with glowing eyes. Sasquatches have never been shown to be violent - until the twentieth century, when they were shown to be such for poor marketting reasons, just like bears.

[tkmadison]

[quote]Actually, according to legend, they DIDN'T make a mistake. Wendigoes and sasquatches are supposedly similar in appearance (huge, protohumans with a lot of hair).quote]

Depends on who does the defining.
The Anicinabe don't describe a Wendigo as anything close to a sasquatch.

[HappyCanuck]

[quote]Actually, according to legend, they DIDN'T make a mistake. Wendigoes and sasquatches are supposedly similar in appearance (huge, protohumans with a lot of hair)[/.quote]

Depends on who does the defining.
The Anicinabe don't describe a Wendigo as anything close to a sasquatch.

Assuming you mean 'Assiniboine', you're correct - for the most part, they don't HAVE a description beyond 'malicious, intended to be a hunter of hunters'. However, Marvel WAS correct in their description of Wendigo in a generalised sence. They took the most prominant features, added some effects for dramatic porpoises, and VOILA!! we have Wendy!

[James Howlett]

The character Wendigo shares a common first appearance with Wolverine: Incredible Hulk # 181 (tho iirc, it was shown proir to being named in 180, for a quick page)
Right. In Uncanny X-Men #139-140, Wolverine mention his Wendigo encounter with Guardian, Snowbird, and Shaman, when he pops by to pay the Alpha Flight team a visit to deal with his Weapon X contract, and mentions how he had to deal with the Wendigo and all. And I believe, doesn't the Wendigo return in Sabretooth's limited series, or maybe I'm thinking that. I know Sasquatch does.

[HappyCanuck]

The character Wendigo shares a common first appearance with Wolverine: Incredible Hulk # 181 (tho iirc, it was shown proir to being named in 180, for a quick page)
Right. In Uncanny X-Men #139-140, Wolverine mention his Wendigo encounter with Guardian, Snowbird, and Shaman, when he pops by to pay the Alpha Flight team a visit to deal with his Weapon X contract, and mentions how he had to deal with the Wendigo and all. And I believe, doesn't the Wendigo return in Sabretooth's limited series, or maybe I'm thinking that. I know Sasquatch does.

First off, James:

1) in UXM 139 and 140, he's prolly meantioning the encounter he had in Hulk 181, prior to his induction into the X-Men. (I'm guessing here, since I don't know if he had another encounter while with the X-Men)
2) Wendigo does apparently return in Sabretooth, as does Sasquatch who appears to be there BECAUSE of Wendigo. Also, this isn't really a 'return', since, in the last decade, that I've seen at least, I can count five different appearances of Wendigo (many in Wolverine, as well as in Hulk and the foregone Captain Marvel series), as well as a few in the 80's, including an allusion in Alpha Flight volume one.
3) You have Cliff making that quote. Actually, it should read

(I like to be recognised for what I say. :D )

[tkmadison]

Assuming you mean 'Assiniboine', you're correct
No, I mean Anicinabe. More commonly called Ojibway, but that word isn't their own...it's a name that the Sioux gave them meaning "bark eaters."
You will see the name of Ojibway more than Anicinabe, I'm sure.
Their description does go beyond [quote]'malicious, intended to be a hunter of hunters'.[quote] as I mentioned earlier in this post.

[tkmadison]

I can count five different appearances of Wendigo (many in Wolverine, as well as in Hulk and the foregone Captain Marvel series

And let's not forget (or maybe we should try) his appearance in that awful Spiderman series Todd McFarlane penned that guested Wolverine....

[HappyCanuck]

I can count five different appearances of Wendigo (many in Wolverine, as well as in Hulk and the foregone Captain Marvel series

And let's not forget (or maybe we should try) his appearance in that awful Spiderman series Todd McFarlane penned that guested Wolverine....

Considering I'm a MacFarlane fan, I'm gonna let that slide -- this time

[DelBubs]

I just knew MacFarlane had a fan, no other reasons for his presence in the comics world :-)

[tkmadison]

Considering I'm a MacFarlane fan, I'm gonna let that slide -- this time

Hey his art is just fine.
I just don't think writing is his bag. Congratulations to a great Canadian comic book artist for building his empire, but try as I might I just didn't like Spawn, and I never thought his writing was that good.
Ugh...never mind his early attempts at colouring in his Spider Man series...