I'm taking action....anybody want to join me?

[cmdrkoenig67]

I don't know if it will help, but I'm doing something...anything to get a message to Marvel/Joe Quesada/anybody....

I posted a thread over at the joequesada.com forum with a plea to bring back Alpha Flight...THE Alpha Flight. The link to his site is below...we need to make ourselves heard(somehow), but in a polite way....please.
The thread is called "Please bring back Alpha Flight". If you're not registered, do so and make yourselves heard.

Express your opinions and your ideas on why the series(and past series) failed, offer construtive criticism on how a future series may succeed.

If only Marvel had it's own message boards....Grrrrr!

Dana

http://www.joequesada.com/

[Ben]

heh, I'd post if they let me. I signed up 3 or 4 days ago, and they still haven't given me access to post :?

Ben

[Ahab]

I hesitate to post on those boards because they are chock full of people that have no respect or consideration for other people's opinions when it differs from their own. It seems much less controlled than X-Fan, etc. It's unfortunate, because I'm sure it's the best way to get Quesada's attention.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Post anyway....what do you care if a troll or two mouths off? If there are enough of us posting in that particular thread....so what? Give it a try....it can't hurt.

Dana

[Scarlettspiderg]

I've already emailed Marvel a few times, and emailed Joe Q to save Alpha Flight (in any of its forms).

Don't worry though I'll be emailing them both soon again and have started some snail mail.

[Mokole]

So far 2 letters this month, 3 emails, 2 to Mr. Quesada, I logged on as Dana requested.

[Legerd]

heh, I'd post if they let me. I signed up 3 or 4 days ago, and they still haven't given me access to post :?

Ben

Same here. I signed up but keep getting the message I can't post. WTF?! ](*,)

[cmdrkoenig67]

hey, the thread over there seems to have picked up some steam, get your buns over there folks(if you haven't already), post about things you liked about AF and things you didn't like(any of the volumes)....make it a discussion. Maybe Joe will take notice.

Dana

[Mokole]

heh, I'd post if they let me. I signed up 3 or 4 days ago, and they still haven't given me access to post :?

Ben

Same here. I signed up but keep getting the message I can't post. WTF?! ](*,)

Same here, signed up 3 days ago, nada. Keep AF Alive!! I'm off to email Joe!

[Ben]

still can't post :( been 4 days since I signed up. I can't even PM one of the mods to ask about it. Any chance someone who can post can look into this?


Ben

[kozzi24]

I haven't been able to post either. Maybe there's some type of authorization wait, delayed by the holiday here in the US?

[cmdrkoenig67]

It's possible, I guess. Did you follow the instructions in the confirmation email? I think I had to wait a while too when I first joined.

Dana

[Ben]

just got it fully activated. I'll post tomorrow after banging nails into wood in sub-zero temperatures, I'm just catching up on posts from the day now, and gonna hit the hay.

Ben

[HappyCanuck]

just got it fully activated. I'll post tomorrow after banging nails into wood in sub-zero temperatures, I'm just catching up on posts from the day now, and gonna hit the hay.

Ben

One things for sure: you can't call Ben a slacker! I swear he's mastered the art of time travel...:D

[varo]

i've e-mailed, snail mailed and posted.

whats joes e-mail addy?

[cmdrkoenig67]

It is....

joe@joequesada.com

Dana

Happy house-building to you, Ben.

[kozzi24]

I think a waiting period was the right call:


Thank you JKZ. Your registration has been successful. The administrator wishes to preview all new registered accounts before posting permissions are granted. The administrator has been notified of your registration.

[Phil]

It mentions a waiting period when you sign up, this stops spam robots etc from creating multiple accounts and posting junk straight away.
If people are willing to sign up and then wait before posting they're more likely to be actual fans.

[Barnacle13]

I got in and posted today after signing up on Wednesday or Thursday! So keep trying kiddies, eventually you'll be accepted!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Come on guys and gals.....the thread has slipped down to page five! It's entitled "Please bring back Alpha Flight...".

Dana

[Mokole]

Not much I can do about it. I got a reply two days ago saying nothing. Blank. No info in it at all, about my registration. Huh.

[cmdrkoenig67]

The link again....

http://www.joequesada.com/

[cmdrkoenig67]

here's the answer I got from Joe Quesada to my email...

no subject

Thanks for your concern with Alpha Flight, unfortunately the orders on
the
book weren't what we would have hoped for. However, that's the beauty
of
comics, the fans decide what stays and what doesn't, so it is
completely democratic
in that fashion.

Best,
JQ

[Ben]

here's the answer I got from Joe Quesada to my email...

no subject

Thanks for your concern with Alpha Flight, unfortunately the orders on
the
book weren't what we would have hoped for. However, that's the beauty
of
comics, the fans decide what stays and what doesn't, so it is
completely democratic
in that fashion.

Best,
JQ

Well, isn't that isn't the biggest load of mapleleafs I've ever heard....

Ben

[varo]

clayton shows up at x-fan.



Someone want to explain to me how someone can be happy that a book is being cancelled? Why the F would you even care?!? Just don't buy it! It doesn't take a GED to figure that out. If you get joy out of witnessing someone else's failure then you lead a sad existence. I really don't like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, but I couldn't care less if it gets cancelled or not.

[Ben]

oooooohhh which thread did he post that in? Gotta get in on some of that action!

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

[quote=cmdrkoenig67]

Well, isn't that isn't the biggest load of mapleleafs I've ever heard....

Ben

Isn't it though?... Although, I wasn't even expecting an answer. It doesn't mean we should stop trying.

Dana

[Ben]

Dana, would you mind if I quoted what he said to you in that in an email to him? I really want to challange him on this point and get a proper explanation out of him why Marvel is willing to retool and promote other books but not AF. I have asked for such a thing on his forum, but would also like to email him in response to this.

Ben

[Mokole]

agreed. Never give up. No matter what. Marvel gives up too easily and often, hence short-term planning and long-term failure (hence bankruptcy).

I finally got to post at Quesada's website. I am keeping up the fight!

[Ben]

Never mind, word for word he said the same thing to me, I'm on a rant now!

EDIT

Here is my letter in response:


Pardon me Mr. Quesada, but I think this is a very unfair comment to make. How can you blame the sales numbers on fans not buying a book when the company you represent has put no effort in to making the title work? Don't tell me the beauty of the industry is in it's democracy, when people don't know the vote is out there! You launched this title with absolutely no effort put into promotion. No advertisements were run, no guest appearances were made in other titles, you didn't even offer the title for subscription, while you were offering huge deals on other tittles to bring up sales. You actually want to tell me that it's all about sales, where the sales for She Hulk are in the same range, and you are willing to re-tool that book to make it work...but not Alpha Flight. Fans cried out for a more old-school style, and though I have loved this incarnation, I would rather see it re-tooled than canceled. Sales drop, the axe falls, did your R&D guys put any effort into figuring out why sales were dropping?

You didn't give this unique direction a chance to get going, and had you put some time into promoting the book a bit, you it would have had the time to get established. New ideas often take time to catch on, and the reviews that the book is getting now is proof that it has found it's direction.

Do you want to know what fans are saying Mr. Quesada? Look no further than your own forum: http://www.joequesada.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=23649

Look at the petition: http://save.alphaflight.net/petition/petition.php

Visit with the fans at the Alpha Flight Forum http://forum.alphaflight.net

With such a dedicated following doesn't this tell you something?

I don't think that a publisher has the right to bemoan poor sales if they didn't take any steps to get the word out about the book. I also think it's a sad reflection of the industry that rather than finding problem areas and fixing them that you would just turn your back on a book and it's fans. No wonder there are so few comic readers these days, as they keep getting alienated and sick of seeing titles they care for fall under the axe without due chance.

Prove me wrong Mr. Quesada, prove to me that Marvel does care about it's fans and give them the Alpha Flight they want. Plese respond to me with more than a cookie cutter email, I want know what you actually have to say about this matter.

Ben Wells

[cmdrkoenig67]

That's a great letter, Ben...I'll have to send him another in a similar vein to yours.

Dana

[varo]

here ya go ben.


http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/

[Mokole]

here's the answer I got from Joe Quesada to my email...

no subject

Thanks for your concern with Alpha Flight, unfortunately the orders on
the
book weren't what we would have hoped for. However, that's the beauty
of
comics, the fans decide what stays and what doesn't, so it is
completely democratic
in that fashion.

Best,
JQ

I got that same, exact email today... Twice.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ah....You just have to loathe form letters. Grrrrr.

Dana :x

[Cliff]

no subject

Thanks for your concern with Alpha Flight, unfortunately the orders on
the book weren't what we would have hoped for. However, that's the beauty of comics, the fans decide what stays and what doesn't, so it is completely democratic in that fashion.

Best,
JQ

That's just a load of horse manure.

The "orders" are placed by retailers and that's not necessarily comics stores. I'm guessing here, but I bet the percentage of comic stores to other chain retailers/newstands (Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc.) is something like 25% to 75% respectively. There's loads more retailers like book stores and newstands and convenience stores (like Stop'n'Go or 7-11) that are only going to order the higher selling books for a sure thing that month - they don't want to pay for low print run comics that they then have to toss if it doesn't pan out. AF worked, it sold the copies they printed and he claims the orders weren't high? That's backwards logic.

What he really means is that Marvel didn't solicit it properly and didn't market it and when the sales looked dreary the blamed it on those numbers rather than putting ads in shops or whatever. I don't think the style appealed to many of us hard-liners either, people who've been fans since volume 1 issue 1, and that doesn't seem to be taken into account with MrQ either. If he asked me if I wanted a Nightcrawler, Mystique, Rogue or Alpha Flight book, if he asked any average Marvel reader that, I'd bet AF wins out. The shere saturation of X-titles is astounding (no pun intended) and yet they can't find a way to solicit AF as a viable title?

These orders were placed months ago - 4 or more in many cases, where retailers have to commit to placing a book on thier shelves. John Byrne talked about this in one of his "flame" articles way back in the Next Men days and it looks as if he was right. The numbers for AF were aproximately the same and Marvel has reaacted in the same manner too.

What they need to do is pop AF into the Ultimates universe and give them a really good treatment. Heck, anyone committed to the title allowed to stick with it long enough to develop a decent story arc would do wonders. Hell, get a big name on there and your sales double, but telling fans that it came down to crappy orders...that's lame.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I for one will not buy an Ultimate AF...period. I despise what Marvel has done to their characters via the Ultimate line of books. No offense intended, Cliff(this isn't a personal attack)...but I don't see that popping AF into the Ultimates universe would be giving them a "really good treatment". Putting any characters into said universe is more like crapping on them and calling them "Kewl"(IMO).

To me, the Ultimate books are nothing more than a dilution(and degeneration) of the original Marvel characters, whether they be the Avengers, X-Men, FF, AF, etc...Trying to pass themselves off as the cooler, more modern versions of our beloved super heroes...I'll pass.

Hmmmm...darker, nastier, grittier, (more like villains than heroes) versions of our heroes, with lamer origins(FF anyone?)...Not what I want to read in a "Super Hero" book....thanks.

Marvel will NOT get my money for an Ultimate AF. Sorry for the rant....back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Dana

[Cliff]

I get U:FF and U:Avengers and that's it. The other books are a little lame, so I avoid them, but there's a distinct thread about Banner trying to figure out what he's done to himself in terms of the gamma radiation and it's a perfect oportunity for an U:AF to like in ther and with whatever Wolverine's backstory is.

However, my main point in mentioning that line is that (A) it's a separate line marketted separately and (B) it gives them the opportunity to ad some legitimacy to AF with a clean slate. The (A) point is more important, and I understand your opinion concerning point (B). With separate marketing and solicitation to retailers who already order the lower print run Ultimates book (again I'm guessing here on print run, but it's a more premium printing with fewer advertisements so that's why I assume that). See what I mean?

[50181]

I signed up, but it won't let me post, so I just sent an email to Joe at
http://www.marvel.com/publishing/stories/showstory.htm?id=6
Hopefully they give this book another chance along with a BIG push like they did Captain Marvel and Spider-Girl

[Scarlettspiderg]

Well I've emailed Marvel again, warning them that if they cancel AF they lose me as a reader (except for Cable & Deadpool) - which means they lose 1 reader from at least 10 titles a month!.

Anyone know how the Syrup campaign is going? I would join in but I cant find any Canadian MS over here in Manchester, UK.

[Ben]

Anyone know how the Syrup campaign is going? I would join in but I cant find any Canadian MS over here in Manchester, UK.

All I know is that I've sent some in, I haven't gotten feedback from anyone else saying that they have. If you can't find any Canadian syrop, any will do to get the point accross.

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

I signed up, but it won't let me post, so I just sent an email to Joe at
http://www.marvel.com/publishing/stories/showstory.htm?id=6
Hopefully they give this book another chance along with a BIG push like they did Captain Marvel and Spider-Girl

There is a waiting period, before you can post....I joined earlier this year...and i don't remember how long that period is. Any of the more recent joiners wan't to let him know how long it is?

Dana

[Ben]

I signed up, but it won't let me post, so I just sent an email to Joe at
http://www.marvel.com/publishing/stories/showstory.htm?id=6
Hopefully they give this book another chance along with a BIG push like they did Captain Marvel and Spider-Girl

There is a waiting period, before you can post....I joined earlier this year...and i don't remember how long that period is. Any of the more recent joiners wan't to let him know how long it is?

Dana

It was 5 days for me

Ben

[Legerd]

It's been longer than five days for me and I still can't post. :(

[Mokole]

Almost exactly 17 days for me to get access. Huh?

[kozzi24]

don't know how many days, I'm assuming about the same as Ben, and I still can't post (as of yesterday)

[kozzi24]

While there's been a lot of talk about promotion and other factors contributing to the success (or not) of new books in general, I wan'ted to throw this out for discussion (feel free to move threads if you feel appropriate, mods.)

What about price points on the books?
Marvel and DC seem to do the same, with the most popular books at lower price points.
With Marvel, their most popular titles or the most mainstream are generally at $2.25: X-Men, Uncanny, Avengers, Amazing, Spectacular etc. FF jumped that 74 cents with #520.
MKnights is always higher, so I am excluding that and not even going to get into the $3.50 for stiff covers on some limiteds.
Related titles and other mainstays will usually be at $2.99: New X-Men (keeping same price point from New Mutants), Captain America, Iron Man and some of the Spider titles.
Newer titles are almost always at #2.99, including Alpha, She-Hulk, New Thunderbolts and the slew of solo X's. The notable exception I picked up on was Marvel Team-up. That's at $2.25.
Does anyone think the price points hurt the newer books, in a way that more people might pick up a newer title more consistently (until they're hooked) if the newer titles were at $2.25.
My thought is that the top sellers are at the lower price point, and I have a chicken-and-the-egg question about that. If these titles are selling out of loyalty and quality, wouldn't they still be top sellers at the higher price point, and the revenue would allow new intended-to-be-ongoings to be sold at $2,25, at least for the first year, with enough time to develop an audience?
My theories aren't perfect here, but I was wondering if other people thought the price might be one barrier.
Jeff

[Cliff]

The prices are higher because the print runs are lower. The make fewer and can recoup the cost more easily by charging a higher cover price to jsut tify not getting a printing "discount". Printing more is cheaper because printers can optimize materials (paper, ink, etc.) so normal runs are in the thousands. Let's say 10,000 just out of the air. If you tell them you want to print three other books but only at runs of 1000 each, the printer has to spend more time and money switching drums and inks and paper stock ans so on, and so it costs more reletive to the norm. Marvel (and any comic company, really) turns around and charges more for these "premium titles".

Strangely this is the same mentality that nearlyt killed the industry back in the '80s with all the foil covers and all that crap. They figured these special titles would increase sales of tangential titles (like the spin off X-titles like Mystique and Rogue) and that's also why Marvel still considers Alpha Flight to be an "X-title".

[kozzi24]

Very true, Cliff. But what's your take on the consumer effect rather than the industrial cause, especially with a relatively strong title like FF suddenly jumping price this last month, and a bestseller like Astonishing X being $2.99?

[Cliff]

Might have been a spike or a drop in FF sales. Dunno. With the X-titles they can price point them at jsut about anything and are assured a sale. Better guess is that with all the FF movie hype they are raising prices now to take advantage of that over the next 6 months.

X-titles are sold under the "make a dozen a nd throw them in the air and see which land first". They dont' care. 2.25 is a below nominal price, but it's feasible and paletable since they have so dang many titles. They're making money regardless. With Joss Whedon on board I wonder how they plan to keep the price so low, but I bet we see that go up too soon.

Most "premium" titles seems to be around the 2.99 price mark, so maybe FF has been bumped to that category for the build up to the movie release. The extra 49¢ will make them a real load of cash.

[varo]

excellent collumn over at x-fan where the writer makes this statement:


Unlike today, when every new book is secretly a limited series until sales prove strong enough to keep it afloat, fifteen years ago, Marvel took a little more care with their releases. Six new, ongoing titles were slatted to debut in 1990, and Marvel decided to launch each in a different month. Think about that... each title gets the full weight of the Marvel Promotional Machine, and the marketplace is not terminally overwhelmed, or, at least, no more terminally overwhelmed than usual. By comparison, next year, there will be six (supposedly) ongoing series launching from Marvel in the month of February, alone... Shanna, The She-Devil does not stand a chance.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I even put a thread over in the comics section of the freedomreborn.net message board(for the game Freedom Force)....in hopes that some of the Alpha Flight fans there(and I know there are a bunch) would join in our fight. I gave Quesada's emails and the one for Marvel(x offices). It's been viewed over 60 times, but only one person has replied to me in the thread.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

I must say the AF fan turn out over on the joequesada.com thread is abit underwhelming....maybe 6-8 fans or so have made an apppearance and are keeping the thread going.


Come on people.

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

I must say the AF fan turn out over on the joequesada.com thread is abit underwhelming....maybe 6-8 fans or so have made an apppearance and are keeping the thread going.


Come on people.

Dana

I've been waiting a month, and it STILL won't let me. I think Joey Q is screening out anyone with a vendetta for Alpha Flight...

[Ahab]

I tried emailing Joe Q and my email bounced back. What is his email address again?

[cmdrkoenig67]

JOEYDAQ@aol.com

and

joe@joequesada.com

[Ahab]

This was my reply from Joe Quesada.

Thank you so much for your letter.

Best,
JQ

That was really comforting. :roll: