#10 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Phil]

#10 is now out.

Feel free to review/spoil/discuss here.

[Legerd]

I liked it. We get a bit more info on the young plodex kid, including a name; we see a new power out of Yukon Jack that is visually very cool; we get some action showing that Puck II has some serious power behind her and we get a look at Centennial's past that, surprisingly, includes Nemesis. :shock:

Oh yeah, Canada and the US have now been destroyed.

Disappointing points:

1. No action out of Sasquatch despite a huge battle going on around him.

2. (Very minor) Small mistake made in the writing when Mac says: "Another member of Alpha Flight has been dispatched in the past to the present... " Centennial was sent from the FUTURE into the past, Mac's present. Nitpicking, yes, but what are ya goin' ta do about it? :P

3. (Again minor): Scott still needs to learn when and where to use: eh.

Overall a good read IMHO. :D

[Defunct]

The Centennial/Nemesis revelation adds a WHOLE new dynamic to everything Nemesis has done in this series. That whole scene had me a little emotional.

This issue seemed to have gone by a little too fast for me, which is either a good thing or a bad thing. I have no idea which.

A lot of the continuity stuff was REALLY hard for me to follow (my knowledge of pre-ANADAF issues is severely lacking), but it's a credit to Lobdell that I at least managed to follow along in some way.

Yuk used his powers! Yay! We get more of a feel for Puck's power, but I wish it had be fleshed-out a tad better in this issue. The wife thing isn't really dealt with beyond Puck not liking it. You'd think she'd ask why he thinks he's her wife (wherein he'd explain that saying someone "possesses the finer qualities of womanhood" or whatever means you're automatically hitched).

The art, of course, is magnificent. Clayton will definitely be getting some high-profile work out of this.

[Somebody]

2. (Very minor) Small mistake made in the writing when Mac says: "Another member of Alpha Flight has been dispatched in the past to the present... " Centennial was sent from the FUTURE into the past, Mac's present. Nitpicking, yes, but what are ya goin' ta do about it? :P

Isn't that in Mac's big speech going:


"um...okay. I think I got it--"

"--instead of me not going to America at all in order to avoid Roxxon, Jaxon and certain dead at the hands of my own short-circuited power supply, another future member of Alpha Flight has been dispached in the past to this present to make sure that a frustrated Jaxon does not turn his pending empire to the task of inadvertently laying waste to Canada and the rest of the world when he can't get his hands on me when I accept the bogus job offer, so instead your intend is that I pretend to accept the employment opportunity as it has been presented so that I do indeed to to New York but rather than waiting to be attacked by Omega Flight I take advantage of my inside knowledge of pending events to take the initiative against Jaxon who is actually posing inside Roger Bochs' Box battle armour thereby ensuring that neither myself nor Flashback are killed as a direct or indirect result of this initial encounter?"

One could forgive Mac for making a bit of a boo-boo. That's ALL ONE SENTENCE: he's starving his brain of oxygen! :)

[kozzi24]

I forget the details from V3#1. Was the reason for Rutherford's coma explained? Maybe Nemesis caused it somehow?

[Barnacle13]

Yuk used his powers! Yay! We get more of a feel for Puck's power, but I wish it had be fleshed-out a tad better in this issue. The wife thing isn't really dealt with beyond Puck not liking it. You'd think she'd ask why he thinks he's her wife (wherein he'd explain that saying someone "possesses the finer qualities of womanhood" or whatever means you're automatically hitched).
.

Could just be that the time stream changed and they're now hitched or somehow Yuk believes they are. With MMJ in the past he's no longer in the way to prevent such a union. Still doesn't explain why Puck doesn't like him calling her that. Unless they're going through a really bad spot or seperation, or maybe she doesn't want the Boxes to use their relationship to against them in the battle. Lots of explanations, none of which I'm sure are right.

[Somebody]

Yuk used his powers! Yay! We get more of a feel for Puck's power, but I wish it had be fleshed-out a tad better in this issue. The wife thing isn't really dealt with beyond Puck not liking it. You'd think she'd ask why he thinks he's her wife (wherein he'd explain that saying someone "possesses the finer qualities of womanhood" or whatever means you're automatically hitched).
.

Could just be that the time stream changed and they're now hitched or somehow Yuk believes they are. With MMJ in the past he's no longer in the way to prevent such a union. Still doesn't explain why Puck doesn't like him calling her that. Unless they're going through a really bad spot or seperation, or maybe she doesn't want the Boxes to use their relationship to against them in the battle. Lots of explanations, none of which I'm sure are right.
For some reason, AF don't seem to be affected by the timeshifts.

CERTAINLY, time had not been rearranged to do THAT. This is just Jack's hubris and Nemesis' sarcasm :)

[Ahab]

I really liked some of the revelations of this issue, but unfortunately, it does point out why so many readers (at least according to Internet posts) have dropped the book. It took 10 issues to learn Yukon's powers. If the readers were aware of this unique power, IMO, they would have taken a liking to him faster. His power has appeared somewhat boring up until now. 10 issues and Puck's powers still remain undefined. No clarification has been made as to who Mar is - random Plodex child that just happens to be non-agressive? (How'd that happen? It has human form, so the genetic imprint had to be human.) Or one of Marrina's children? (Which would make a little more sense, particularly since it has webbed appendages.) I appreciate the teasers that Scott throws out there about the individual members, but for readers that need to be hooked from the beginning, these revelations may be not be coming quick enough to keep interest. It's a shame, because this is one book that I always put down with an anticipation for the next issue.

[kozzi24]

Are Jack's powers "unique"? I'm thinking Marrow here.
We got a name for Plodex "boy", but who named him (within the fictional world)?

[Ben]

Are Jack's powers "unique"? I'm thinking Marrow here.
We got a name for Plodex "boy", but who named him (within the fictional world)?

I dunno about you, but I've never seen Marrow produce a whiping chain of bone shards tearing through metal like a chainsaw through wood ;) Making bone daggers and hurling them is quite different from a mentally controlled chain of bone shards.

That's how I see it anyway.

Ben

[Mokole]

Well, I figured before that those bones were weapons but the chain saw effect was surprising. Puck obviously can deliver as much force as she wants, so she can jump awfully far and can deliver hits with who knows, Hulk-level force? Now we also know why she thought she had a chance against Sasquatch in arm-wrestling.

Marvel needs to fix this 'cancellation' mistake, and fast!

#10 was all it was cracked up to be, hope my nephews like it.

[kozzi24]

The power is different enough from the mainstrea...I was trying to defend the word "unique" as it is a unique word often misused.
There's a lot of unique things that can be done with YJ's powers, but bone control is not unique.
Manikin's powers kind of were.

[Ben]

The power is different enough from the mainstrea...I was trying to defend the word "unique" as it is a unique word often misused.
There's a lot of unique things that can be done with YJ's powers, but bone control is not unique.
Manikin's powers kind of were.

I'm not so sure about that. Manikin's powers are more similar to Flashback's than YJ's are to Marrow's I'd say. You could generalize any power enough to make a case for it not being "unique". Lets maybe use the word original instead ;)

Ben

[HappyCanuck]

With the millions apon millions of comic creations these days, you'd be hard-pressed to find a character whos powers were truly 'unique' or 'original'. Everythings been done and twisted ad nauseum. Hell, not including the SUper-Clones, I can think of at least eight characters who have similar powers as Superman, some with small alterations, others carbon copies in different threads. Let's face it, there is no powers that hasn't been done.

[Mokole]

One thing is you can make usage and personality original, like Ghost Girl compared to Kitty Pryde, or Centenniel to Superman, or Flex to Colossus.

[Ahab]

The power is different enough from the mainstrea...I was trying to defend the word "unique" as it is a unique word often misused.
There's a lot of unique things that can be done with YJ's powers, but bone control is not unique.
Manikin's powers kind of were.

Considering that was completely not the point of my post, it's always amusing to see what people respond to. I agree with Ben that I don't see the correlation to Marrow's power. Just because both powers involve "bones" does not make them the same. Marrow controlled her own bones. He controls the "bones" on him, which I have always assumed were ornamental. There hasn't even been evidence that they are made of carbon. I still contend that it is unique.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm guessing Jack's power is magical bone control....as opposed to Mutant bone control, but I could be wrong.

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

Makes me wonder if he can control ANY bones, or just those he wears. If it were any bones, then, in theory, he'd have a sort of necrokinesis (assuming he can only control the bones of the dead). Or is it he can control ANY bones - living OR dead (that would be interesting)... okay, I'm babbling now...

[Canucklehead]

This may just be the artists concept and may have been discussed before, but did anyone else notice in ish 9 when Jack was getting electrocuted, his upper bone structure seemed consist of the same patern as on his outside? He also didn't seem to have any ribs and his pelvic area was up above his abs area. Again this is probably just artist concept, but I wondered if it was maybe a hint as to how he is immortal and how his powers are used.

HappyCanuck, if he DID control the bones of the dead, do you think maybe it explains his "flashback" (hehe.. aw forget it) when he was impailed through the heart? Maybe he had to "die" to become immortal and "control" his bones? Or maybe it's because it's 12:30am and I just took 3 gravols. Who can say.

PS
Love the new avatar!

Dave

[HappyCanuck]

This may just be the artists concept and may have been discussed before, but did anyone else notice in ish 9 when Jack was getting electrocuted, his upper bone structure seemed consist of the same patern as on his outside? He also didn't seem to have any ribs and his pelvic area was up above his abs area. Again this is probably just artist concept, but I wondered if it was maybe a hint as to how he is immortal and how his powers are used.

Not having #9, I can't comment on that.


HappyCanuck, if he DID control the bones of the dead, do you think maybe it explains his "flashback" (hehe.. aw forget it) when he was impailed through the heart? Maybe he had to "die" to become immortal and "control" his bones? Or maybe it's because it's 12:30am and I just took 3 gravols. Who can say.

makes sence to me.


PS
Love the new avatar!

hehe, Actually it's an old one that I've decided to resurrect. There's a full pic (http://forum.alphaflight.net/album_pic.php?pic_id=15) in the fan art gallery.

(for clarification as to WHY I drew it - It's all Ben's fault, he dared me to!)

[Canucklehead]

hehe, Actually it's an old one that I've decided to resurrect. There's a full pic (http://forum.alphaflight.net/album_pic.php?pic_id=15) in the fan art gallery.

(for clarification as to WHY I drew it - It's all Ben's fault, he dared me to!)

LOL! Man, I really coulda gone through life without seeing that. It's gonna keep me up at nights. I might have to start taking 4 gravols....

Dave

[HappyCanuck]

:twisted: Heh heh, I've gotten that a few times. Someone even said they had to see a therapist to get the nightmares out.

Hmm, I'm half tempted to do something REALLY diabolical now ...

:twisted: :twisted:


(and for the record, yes, I drew that - on a dare, from Ben, several months ago)

[Canucklehead]

Well as long as it was just for a dare... and you don't keep a copy under your mattress, it's all good.

Just keep ol' Puck out of Vampirella's attire.

No, that was not a dare. :wink:

Dave

[HappyCanuck]

Well as long as it was just for a dare... and you don't keep a copy under your mattress, it's all good.

Just keep ol' Puck out of Vampirella's attire.

No, that was not a dare. :wink:

Dave

LOL, don't worry, I have something more diabolical in mind...

[Mokole]

Do I have to separate you two? oh, BC, NB, I guess you already are. :o

[HappyCanuck]

Do I have to separate you two? oh, BC, NB, I guess you already are. :o

LOL, now don't blame him. I get these ideas ALL by myself!! He's just fueling the flames :D

[bigbloo]

I forget the details from V3#1. Was the reason for Rutherford's coma explained? Maybe Nemesis caused it somehow?

I just love the whole Nemesis-Rutherford angle. And the connection between them was already foreshadowed in earlier issues, so im really happy to see my hunch was correct.

Rutherford's coma has not been explained, but since its said in the comic that Rutherford was at Nem's supposed funeral and gruieved for her, i would tend to think that they met and were separated before Rutherford got married.

*sigh*

I would love to see a mini series with those two. I wolder if Rutherford had powers when he was a cop, or acquired them later...

[Ottawa Renegade]

I would love to see a mini series with those two. I wolder if Rutherford had powers when he was a cop, or acquired them later...

Wasn't his whole thing that he only acquired his powers at 97 years old? I thought that was supposed to be his "hook".

[Canucklehead]

Wasn't his whole thing that he only acquired his powers at 97 years old? I thought that was supposed to be his "hook".

At one point he's 97, then 96, then 90, then he was in a coma for 15 years, then 10 and I'm pretty sure he said "two decades" at one point. So I wouldn't be surprised if the time in which he attained his powers changed too lol. That was really my only nit-pic of this series. Small details seemed to change from book to book.

D.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Wasn't his whole thing that he only acquired his powers at 97 years old? I thought that was supposed to be his "hook".

At one point he's 97, then 96, then 90, then he was in a coma for 15 years, then 10 and I'm pretty sure he said "two decades" at one point. So I wouldn't be surprised if the time in which he attained his powers changed too lol. That was really my only nit-pic of this series. Small details seemed to change from book to book.

D.

Yes, that's some cazy continuity...I'm hoping Scott did it intentionally as some sort of gag, but that may not be the case :? .

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

Wasn't his whole thing that he only acquired his powers at 97 years old? I thought that was supposed to be his "hook".

At one point he's 97, then 96, then 90, then he was in a coma for 15 years, then 10 and I'm pretty sure he said "two decades" at one point. So I wouldn't be surprised if the time in which he attained his powers changed too lol. That was really my only nit-pic of this series. Small details seemed to change from book to book.

D.

Yes, that's some cazy continuity...I'm hoping Scott did it intentionally as some sort of gag, but that may not be the case :? .

Dana

well, 90 is a nicer rounding than 100. everything else can be chalked up to rounding (15 years is the better part of two decades), unsuredness on the character's parts (the only ones who talk to him for any length of time are Sas and Nemesis), or an oopsie on Scott's part.

[bigbloo]

This may just be the artists concept and may have been discussed before, but did anyone else notice in ish 9 when Jack was getting electrocuted, his upper bone structure seemed consist of the same patern as on his outside? He also didn't seem to have any ribs and his pelvic area was up above his abs area. Again this is probably just artist concept, but I wondered if it was maybe a hint as to how he is immortal and how his powers are used.


If he CAN control his own bones, then it would make sense for him to restructure his skeleton to make it more efficient and less prone to injury.
Maybe he isnt even consciously aware of it, it may be just a reflex structural change during combat situations.

Dont ya just love speculating about super hero powers? :D

[HappyCanuck]

Dont ya just love speculating about super hero powers? :D

LOL, Tell me about it, I spend most of my time trying to figure out the hows on super-powers, making them work in the context of physics - trust me, not an easy task.

[Mokole]

And that's why I like Box and Feedback and Rogue and Shinobi Shaw and... because while their powers are cool, they're impossible in Newtonian, Einstein, or anyone's physics. Non-examples all.

- Matter can't take up the same space (Box, Shaw) nor can metal change properties without changing chemically (Box).

- Energy cannot hold a shape or move in non-random localized patterns (Louis).

- you can't acquire memories without acquiring neural patterns and you can't do that by touch (Rogue)

- You can't fly without, well, we all know that one (Rogue)

And so on.

[Le Messor]

I noticed Jack's skeleton, but it was in a very wordy post that prob'ly put most people off. Always figured it was part of his powers.

Do we have any reason to believe those bones on his flesh aren't his?

Are his powers a combination of Marrow's (bone control) and Ghost Rider's (Ketch - the chain)?

Mokole, the book 'The Science of the X-Men' covers Rogue; but it, as do you, tries to do it without belief in the concept of soul. Without which, its theories about her and telepaths are just reaching, imho.

- Le Messor
"By following the good, you learn to be good."

[kozzi24]

liken soul to individual brain waves or frequency and you have a passable compromise that keps the jist without the theology

[Canucklehead]

Whatever the case, it's a cool power but falls under "the too little too late" category. I doubt having him show his powers earlier would have saved the book, but with every erogent character, you have to create a scenario where you love to hate them. Jack was just basically pouting in the background most of the time (or was eye candy to some). I think his character would have captured more people early on if we'd seen how powerful he was. Even a hint. At least the other characters had human moments before their powers were fully discovered, which wasn't really the case for him.

That's my thoughts anyway.

Cheers,
D

[Le Messor]

Much as I'd like to get behind 'our' team, I DO NOT believe that an army of Boxes could take out both the Avengers and the X-Men.

Consider: The Avengers recently (well, in their latest series) took out a whole army of adamantium-laced Ultron-copying, let's face it, Borg. Way more powerful than Box, and the Avengers won.

The X-Men? One word: Sentinels. Many battles.

Both have shown that the teams can more than handle themselves against such an army, and the Box robots aren't as powerful as either. Heck, iirc, before Mac's death, they couldn't even fly. (So why can they here? Okay, let's assume Roxxon developed that feature.)

Hey, since when was Jaxon Roxxon's CEO? He was always a minor operative in the original. And wasn't his first name Jerome, not Jerard? (I can't find the reference, but I'm pretty sure about that.)

Has anyone else noticed that the new Plodex' name, 'Mar', could be short for 'Marrina'? (Besides meaning a stain or a defect.)

- Le Messor
"By nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they get to be far apart."

[Mokole]

Ah, but never underestimate the value of surprise, and quantity has a quality all its own in battle.

[Le Messor]

Centennial got his powers as soon as he awoke from the coma. That's been pretty clear from the start.

- Le Messor
"Mean is assuming the class nerd is nobody's best friend."

[Barnacle13]

I don't know about the whole bone trick! Can you really cut through steel with bone? Last time I checked an aluminum bat was more than enough to smash bone. I think the Boxes would've mopped Yuk up if his "wife" wasn't there to save him. Guess it's that suspension of belief we hear so much about.

[Legerd]

I think that's 'suspension of disbelief' buddy and yeah, I think we need a whole truckfull of it with AF's past and present.

[Canucklehead]

I think that's 'suspension of disbelief' buddy and yeah, I think we need a whole truckfull of it with AF's past and present.

Hmm, would that be the multiple deaths and rebirths, the many brainwashings, the multiple sex changes, or the sudden revelation that a certain characters' height is due to an ancient demon inside of him? Hmm, yeah after all that, it's hard to bat an eyelash at magical bone cutting through metal lol

Dave