Alpha Flight #11

[maniac mike]

So what did everybody think?

MM :-#

[Ben]

I assumed it wasn't out yet because of the Holidays. I'll have to pick it up tomorrow.

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

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It was....disappointing. A lot more running around and not a lot accomplished...I think it's called decompressed story-telling or some such.
It looks like Yukon Jack doesn't need the rest of the Alphans for anything...his bone weapons took out the entire Omega Flight team...so maybe he should get his own book :roll:

Dana

[Mokole]

I may have it tomorrow, but I'm betting next week. Can't really afford to drive 2 hours just for the sake of a comic book, even AF.

I expect, that since Lobdell was told in August that AF was being cancelled, that he basically did what Seagle did: take the story arc he intended to write and mash in bits from the arc that brings back Byrnites.

Seagle intended for Gentry to be Hudson and to bring back most of AF slowly, all around issue #32. But when AF got canned he brought back Byrnites fast, hashed in a way to explain away Hudson, and that was it.

Still, in AF version 4 I'd keep Hudsons as Administrators, AF being Puck, Sasquatch, Shaman, Snowbird, Zuzha, Major Mapleleaf, and maybe keep Earthmover (have to develop his potential, just like we need to see MML cut loose in #12).

[cmdrkoenig67]

just like we need to see MML cut loose in #12).

I really doubt that will happen,considering Thunder is not around. Remember...Scott has indicated MML's power is in his horse.

Dana

[Mokole]

Surprisingly got it today!

Great art, as usual. Anybody notice Flashback in the battle with Onslaught?























The story holds together OK. Too bad it got cancelled, I think that changed how it was written a bit. Odd how Langkowski is Sasquatch but wearing his clothes and glasses. Got between two realities, possibly?

Yukon Jack single-handedly beating Omega Flight is no big deal, he knows what he's up against and is ferocious. With Langkowski seemingly out of commission now who will fix things in #12? Will ANADAF have to fight Byrne AF in the past? Will that somehow fix things? As Nemesis goes into battle, again, will Major Mapleleaf be the one to pull the iron out of the fire?

Only one issue left, too bad.

Ed and J., make your pitch and get v4 on the rails! Keep Zuzha and MML, why not?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Surprisingly got it today!

Great art, as usual. Anybody notice Flashback in the battle with Onslaught?

Yes....what the heck was with that?...And why did Guardian's costume change from panel to panel....the book is falling apart.



The story holds together OK. Too bad it got cancelled, I think that changed how it was written a bit. Odd how Langkowski is Sasquatch but wearing his clothes and glasses. Got between two realities, possibly?

Yukon Jack single-handedly beating Omega Flight is no big deal, he knows what he's up against and is ferocious.

I have to ask...HOW does he know what he's up against?...he's only faced the Box robot before and met Flashback briefly. He doesn't know the rest of Omega Flight or what they can do. The story does not hold up...it's making less and less sense as it goes on.



With Langkowski seemingly out of commission now who will fix things in #12? Will ANADAF have to fight Byrne AF in the past? Will that somehow fix things? As Nemesis goes into battle, again, will Major Mapleleaf be the one to pull the iron out of the fire?

How can he? He's dead and lost in the past, at the moment.

Only one issue left, too bad.

Ed and J., make your pitch and get v4 on the rails! Keep Zuzha and MML, why not?

[varo]

the art was the best of the series. i love claytons work. the story........blech.

[Mokole]

It looks like Yukon Jack doesn't need the rest of the Alphans for anything...his bone weapons took out the entire Omega Flight team...so maybe he should get his own book

Dana

Well, in #10 Hudson would have had to take out all of Omega Flight by himself, since they were all waiting for him. So in th same vein YJ took them all out, knowing more than they did.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Huh?

[Le Messor]

Yes....what the heck was with that?...And why did Guardian's costume change from panel to panel....the book is falling apart.

LOL! I love the way you put that. Yes, it's definitely falling apart - at least my copy is. During my first read, the middle pages came out. D'oh!

I've liked the way Lobdell used the time travel to reveal little bits of secrets. Nice.

Delphine Courtney (not Courtney Delphine - how the hell could they make a mistake like that?) looked nothing like herself. I thought she was Mar 'til I read her name.
In fact, that whole role call left a bitter taste - I felt like Lobdell was belittling Byrne, a much, much better writer than him.

Again, I don't believe these events. No way would AF move to New York. Simple. Snowbird least of all. There's no reason to, either - NYC has a plethora of superheroes, Canada not enough. It's unbelievable.

I mean, imagine if these things happened in the comics - if Box tried to take over the US. If the Plodex tried to take over Canada. The heroes would find a way. They wouldn't go 'Oh, no, Boxes, let's die. Uh-oh, Plodex, let's nuke a country'.
The Avengers and X-Men, much less the gajillion others, have all faced this before. They wouldn't lose, and they wouldn't nuke Canada. They'd get close to both - they have before - but they wouldn't do it.

Though I did like AF taking out Onslaught.

- Le Messor
"Check again to make sure it’s not loaded."

[cmdrkoenig67]

LOL! I love the way you put that. Yes, it's definitely falling apart - at least my copy is. During my first read, the middle pages came out. D'oh!

Hey...the same thing happened to my middle pages, as well...that's odd.

I've liked the way Lobdell used the time travel to reveal little bits of secrets. Nice.

Delphine Courtney (not Courtney Delphine - how the hell could they make a mistake like that?) looked nothing like herself. I thought she was Mar 'til I read her name.
In fact, that whole role call left a bitter taste - I felt like Lobdell was belittling Byrne, a much, much better writer than him.

Yeah....and Delphine didn't even appear in the issue.

Again, I don't believe these events. No way would AF move to New York. Simple. Snowbird least of all. There's no reason to, either - NYC has a plethora of superheroes, Canada not enough. It's unbelievable.

It is definitely a huge stretch, that makes very little sense.

I mean, imagine if these things happened in the comics - if Box tried to take over the US. If the Plodex tried to take over Canada. The heroes would find a way. They wouldn't go 'Oh, no, Boxes, let's die. Uh-oh, Plodex, let's nuke a country'.
The Avengers and X-Men, much less the gajillion others, have all faced this before. They wouldn't lose, and they wouldn't nuke Canada. They'd get close to both - they have before - but they wouldn't do it.

At this point....I'd say the believability factor has been thrown out the window....and have you noticed it's just not humorous anymore....if this is supposed to be a "funny" book...where's the funny?

Though I did like AF taking out Onslaught.

- Le Messor
"Check again to make sure it’s not loaded."

[Ottawa Renegade]

I have to ask...HOW does he know what he's up against?...he's only faced the Box robot before and met Flashback briefly. He doesn't know the rest of Omega Flight or what they can do. The story does not hold up...it's making less and less sense as it goes on.

Hell, I never figured why they wanted to go back in time in the first place. Why go to the spot before Mac dies, when Mac is alive today anyway, with Heather and with a kid? To save him some grief since he had a bad run of it?

Maybe Walt just lost track of whether Mac was alive or dead...it would be easy to.

[Le Messor]

[quote=cmdrkoenig67]Hell, I never figured why they wanted to go back in time in the first place. Why go to the spot before Mac dies, when Mac is alive today anyway, with Heather and with a kid? To save him some grief since he had a bad run of it?

I think they were going back to warn Mac not to let Mantlo on the book.

- Le Messor
"Chemistry professors never die, they just smell that way!"

[Northcott]

Warning: This thread has developed "the Funney"! :lol:

[Phil]

I think they were going back to warn Mac not to let Mantlo on the book.

Hmm...

[cmdrkoenig67]

Well, in #10 Hudson would have had to take out all of Omega Flight by himself, since they were all waiting for him. So in th same vein YJ took them all out, knowing more than they did.

But Hudson didn't prevail, did he? He got croaked. ...And did I miss the indepth briefing that Yukon got on Omega Flight before he went back in time?

Dana

[Northcott]

Ow. Good point.

Though imagine how it might have turned out if Hudson had been warned with one simple sentance before he went in: "Roger's been kidnapped and an enemy is controlling the Box unit."

Or if Walt hadn't been suffering a crisis of confidence at the time: if he hadn't been afraid of going bonkers his fight with the early Box unit would have been like a Frat Jock crushing a beer can.

When it boils down to it, Omega were grotesquely outmatched. Only the element of surprise gave them the advantage they needed.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ow. Good point.

Though imagine how it might have turned out if Hudson had been warned with one simple sentance before he went in: "Roger's been kidnapped and an enemy is controlling the Box unit."

Or if Walt hadn't been suffering a crisis of confidence at the time: if he hadn't been afraid of going bonkers his fight with the early Box unit would have been like a Frat Jock crushing a beer can.

When it boils down to it, Omega were grotesquely outmatched. Only the element of surprise gave them the advantage they needed.

Excellent point, as well, Ed.....however, you'd think that YJ was outmatched by OF(more of their number to his one...and him not knowing really anything about them), but not according to Scott Lobdell...YJ is the kind of "hero" that can take on entire super teams and defeat them all. Which is why I think Yukon Jack deserves his own book.....far, far away from Alpha Flight. :wink:

Dana

[Northcott]

Outta curiosity... what are Yukon Jack's powers? I ended up leaving the current rendition of Alpha alone after missing the first few issues (all sold out locally) and then not digging what I did see in the shops after that.

(That's part of the comic-killing cycle, I'd argue: printing only as many issues as have been ordered. I've been screwed on a few of my subscriptions because of that, with Marvel under-printing and leaving me with gaps in the stories.)

I mean, if we're talking a character that can fight off entire super-teams, I'm thinking he'd better be on par with Magneto. Sasquatch was of Hulk-level power; that doesn't qualify? Guardian fought Colossus, Storm, Wolverine, and a berserk Banshee to a near stand-still.

This isn't meant as a dig on Lobdell, but I always twitch when creators ditch characters in a book to throw in their pet projects. No, that's not quite right... I should clarify. I twitch when those pet projects are uber-characters who are invariably tougher, stronger, and more capable than everyone else.

On the one hand you've got Guardian, who can fly at high speeds, has a force field that can take the impact of a tank shell, super-strength, and an energy blast that packs the punch of a couple hundred pounds of TNT (and if you've ever seen what a single stick of dynamite can do, you know to be suitably impressed).

On the other -- what can Jack do? Please, fill me in. After what little I saw, he looked like another above-human level scrapper type character with funky weaponry.

[cmdrkoenig67]

On the other -- what can Jack do? Please, fill me in. After what little I saw, he looked like another above-human level scrapper type character with funky weaponry.

He is(as far has been shown) An above-human level scrapper with a bone knife(LOL), who can project light and can manipulate(magically?) the bones that are on his skin...making them leave his skin and cut through substances, like Box's metal exterior(?) and Diamond Lil's skin(apparently).

Dana

[Northcott]

Ah. Through Lil's skin. Of course. 'Cause invulnerability's not her schtick.

Again:
This isn't meant as a dig on Lobdell, but I always twitch when creators ditch characters in a book to throw in their pet projects. No, that's not quite right... I should clarify. I twitch when those pet projects are uber-characters who are invariably tougher, stronger, and more capable than everyone else.


I hated gambit when he first bloody came out for the same freakin' reason. He was another uber-character that was better than everyone else out there. Multiple powers unrelated to each other; he couldn't be mind-controlled, but could mind-control others; as agile as Nightcrawler, a better fighter than Wolverine, and a more powerful energy blast than Cyclops. Hell, he took out Gladiator (the Imperial Guard's Superman knock-off) with one hit. One. The guy that curb-stomped Colossus.

I think that in fan-fic they're called "Mary Sue" characters.

[Ben]

On the other -- what can Jack do? Please, fill me in. After what little I saw, he looked like another above-human level scrapper type character with funky weaponry.

He is(as far has been shown) An above-human level scrapper with a bone knife(LOL), who can project light and can manipulate(magically?) the bones that are on his skin...making them leave his skin and cut through substances, like Box's metal exterior(?) and Diamond Lil's skin(apparently).

Dana

I don't think we could say that he cut Diamond Lil's skin, just that he disabled her. He may have used his light generating powers to daze her, smothered her with his projectiles, or who knows what else, as we didn't actually see what happened in the battle.

Ben

[Mokole]

Diamond-hard skin doesn't mean you can't suffer internal injuries, so I think that explains it.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I don't think we could say that he cut Diamond Lil's skin, just that he disabled her. He may have used his light generating powers to daze her, smothered her with his projectiles, or who knows what else, as we didn't actually see what happened in the battle.

Ben

She was bleeding from the mouth, Ben.....granted we didn't see what happened, but she was bleeding.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

Diamond-hard skin doesn't mean you can't suffer internal injuries, so I think that explains it.

So I guess we're to surmise that he sent his magical bones down her throat and chopped her up from the inside? I guess that works...if he's a psychotic killer. oh well.

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

I think that in fan-fic they're called "Mary Sue" characters.

Nah Ed....Mary Sue characters usually have flings with another character, so the writer can live out his/her fantasies...whoops!...well....he does have one...with Rogue...nevermind...LOL!

Dana

[Northcott]

Diamond-hard skin doesn't mean you can't suffer internal injuries, so I think that explains it.

She'd never have survived a battle if internal injuries were a concern. She's able to laugh off bolts from the Guardian battle suit, and those blasts pack some serious "oomph".

[Ben]

She was bleeding from the mouth, Ben.....granted we didn't see what happened, but she was bleeding.

Dana

actually, she had blood on the side of her face, nothing on or all that close to her mouth. Now other members of Omega Fligher did look to be be bleeding from the mouth, and other areas, and they were all kind heaped in a pile. Really, we don't konw who's blood it is. Yes, it's possible this is a continuity error, certainl have been enough slipped past the editorial staff, but you really can't say for sure what happened to Lil.

Bem

[Le Messor]

A 'Mary-Sue' character usually represents the author. Everyone is in love with the character, who always saves the day; ie: it's the author's fantasy given life.

So, then, is YJ Lobdell's Mary-Sue?

- Le Messor
"Cleanliness is next to impossible."

[kozzi24]

we didn't actually see what happened in the battle.

Ben
And that's been a consistent problem with this run since the first issue.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

How can the BOXes beat the crap out of the entire MARVEL universe when the neophyte Alpha Flighters turn them to scrap metal with such seeming ease?

[cmdrkoenig67]

How can the BOXes beat the crap out of the entire MARVEL universe when the neophyte Alpha Flighters turn them to scrap metal with such seeming ease?

A writer's "Their my characters, so they can kick everyone's butts." mentallity? Uber-characters...I hate them! Gambit, Cable, etc... :roll:

Dana