If House of M is to effect Alpha Flight

[mos_def]

what retcons would you most like to see. (outside of vol 3)

[birdygirl]

I'd like to see some good classic characters such as Roger Bochs and Snowbird's son brought back. And I'd also like to see Talisman return, (even if this isn't a retcon).

[Mokole]

Madison Jeffries to be strong-minded, Mac Hudson and Snowbird still dead. Heather running Department H. AF made up of Box, Sasquatch, Shaman, Puck, Aurora, Northstar. Beta made up of Talisman, Persuasion, Manikin, Diamond Lil, and a younger Windshear. Gamma to be Feedback, Pathway, Goblyn, and the Legacies, only this time they are in of their own free will.

House of M a reset button?

[Adam]

Since the rumour is that this big sweeping (presumably) reality changing event will clean up all of Marvel's continuity issues at once, I wouldn't be surprised if it was used to clean up Alpha as well. Maybe it won't be in the series itself, but if at some later date Alpha shows up the writers could just say "oh those past contradictions that made no sense were cleaned up in the aftermath of House of M"

Of course, we're really not sure how this will all go down so who knows. I am looking forward to the series though. I'm not picking up a lot of books at the moment but I enjoy New Avengers and I suspect I'll enjoy this.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'd like Puck to have always been a true little person and not a basketball player possessed by a demon sorcerer...if Razer gets erased in the process...oh well.

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

If MARVEL pretends that volume 3 hasn't happened, I wouldn't be upset because ALPHA FLIGHT escorting the Plodex eggs back to Plodex-world does not fit with their reason for being: defending Canada. I'd personally miss the possibility of FLASHBACK being saved, but that's just me. I'll support a new AF series but hope it makes better sense than it has in the past.

I second the return of Roger Bochs, one of the reasons being that turning him into a maladjusted kook was just wrong.

[cmdrkoenig67]

If MARVEL pretends that volume 3 hasn't happened, I wouldn't be upset because ALPHA FLIGHT escorting the Plodex eggs back to Plodex-world does not fit with their reason for being: defending Canada. I'd personally miss the possibility of FLASHBACK being saved, but that's just me. I'll support a new AF series but hope it makes better sense than it has in the past.

I second the return of Roger Bochs, one of the reasons being that turning him into a maladjusted kook was just wrong.

As far as Flashback is concerned...why couldn't his death take place far into his future....why would it have to be anytime soon? Or a writer could perhaps have him learn that his powers don't work quite the way he thought...he could be pulling alternate future timeline selves and not from his own future?

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I like both ideas. Both are very plausible. [The further into the future, the better; alternate timelines kinda what Scott Lodbell introduced, isn't it?]

In the past, I thought Alpha Flighters could be considered Canadian analogs to the Avengers, but their personalities were spotlighted and that wasn't a problem for me. I've never thought the original Omega Flighters were as lame as presented, though. Courtney the robot fights well as "Dark Guardian" but punks out when Mr. I-can-do-everything Madison Jeffries shows up. Give me a break. Diamond Lil supposedly has super-hard skin, but gets poked and prodded with ease.

Gotta admit Smart Alec and Flashback need a little help, though.

Who believes that tripe about going to Ganymede and being saved by jelly-fish aliens? Is it just me, or does this say "unreliable narrator" [the robot Delphine Courtney/Dark Guardian]? Making that part of the real Alpha Flight history is something I wish could be un-done...but that would mean screwing with AF's "continuity," which is out of the question because AF's continuity makes so much sense as it is.

[Legerd]

Since the rumour is that this big sweeping (presumably) reality changing event will clean up all of Marvel's continuity issues at once, I wouldn't be surprised if it was used to clean up Alpha as well.

When and where did this rumour come from? If it's true than it's about time. There's so much garbage that Marvel needs to clean up.


As far as Flashback is concerned...why couldn't his death take place far into his future....why would it have to be anytime soon? Or a writer could perhaps have him learn that his powers don't work quite the way he thought...he could be pulling alternate future timeline selves and not from his own future?

If they retcon the incident so Flashy never disappeared from the prison, then I have no problem with saying it was a futureself from further in time than what was written. They don't even have to kill him, I just thought that was a great idea to wrap up what could have been a loose plot thread.


Who believes that tripe about going to Ganymede and being saved by jelly-fish aliens?

That was pretty lame. :( Still, I liked the cyborg version of Mac that showed up. It made for some great character development as he tried to regain his old life, yet couldn't break free from the cold logic of his computer half to do it. Only at the end, and only due to Heather's life being threatened, does he succeed.


I'd like Puck to have always been a true little person...

Same here.

Here's hoping that the rumour is true and that Alpha will be included in the clean up.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I like both ideas. Both are very plausible. [The further into the future, the better; alternate timelines kinda what Scott Lodbell introduced, isn't it?]

In the past, I thought Alpha Flighters could be considered Canadian analogs to the Avengers, but their personalities were spotlighted and that wasn't a problem for me. I've never thought the original Omega Flighters were as lame as presented, though. Courtney the robot fights well as "Dark Guardian" but punks out when Mr. I-can-do-everything Madison Jeffries shows up. Give me a break. Diamond Lil supposedly has super-hard skin, but gets poked and prodded with ease.

Why wouldn't Delphine be terrified of Madison?...she knew he could shred her with a thought(and that he was loyal to Hudson....How she knew that...I have no idea),That's why she never approached him for Omega recruitment. She was a robot with emotions and a survival instinct....not to mention, she was pretty smart.


Gotta admit Smart Alec and Flashback need a little help, though.

Who believes that tripe about going to Ganymede and being saved by jelly-fish aliens? Is it just me, or does this say "unreliable narrator" [the robot Delphine Courtney/Dark Guardian]? Making that part of the real Alpha Flight history is something I wish could be un-done...but that would mean screwing with AF's "continuity," which is out of the question because AF's continuity makes so much sense as it is.

that was a huge mistake on the writer's part...Byrne meant Delphine's explanation to be outrageous....it was one of the clues he planted to let us know that something wasn't quite right about Mac being back.

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

As I re-check things, AF could have been considered Canadian analogs to already-established MARVEL characters, not just Avengers, if it had not been for the emphasis on the original member's characterizations. Too bad I didn't catch that yesterday.

I do remember the part where Courtney gets covered in mystical goop (by Shaman) that puts all its Dark Guardian electromagnetic frazzmistats out of commission. Do I believe Courtney would be scared of Madison Jeffries? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe that Courtney would be so rattled as to throw Flashback in front of him when Diamond Lil was there? No, I don't. I totally agree that Courtney is a quick-thinking robot with instincts, computer-like logical instincts, though, and its response should have been effective, efficient, and productive. Throwing Flashback in front was none of those things. Therefore, Flashback's death is one of those things that should be corrected in a decent story, it if it could be. IMO

If Razaar was inside of Puck all the time, why didn't he make his presence known when Marrina disemboweled him in AFV1#2?

Mantlo's Puck always whined about not having any super-powers, but anybody who can keep a malignant demon inside of him for decades (a retcon MANTLO himself introduced) and still be an effective government agent, bouncer, Alpha Flighter must have some sorta special quality about him. I don't think most people would've been able to do it.

But I like Judd as he was originally conceived: tough, resilient, knowledgable, adventureous, short, demonless.

[cmdrkoenig67]

As I re-check things, AF could have been considered Canadian analogs to already-established MARVEL characters, not just Avengers, if it had not been for the emphasis on the original member's characterizations. Too bad I didn't catch that yesterday.

Characters I can see that could they be analogues to...besides the Cap America/Guardian comparisons(they both wear flags for their countries....that's about it). Others I can think of are...Sasquatch/Hulk(in that they are both strong and used Gamma Radiation), Snowbird/Storm(one is a demigoddess who is an animal metamorph, the other...a pretender-goddess with weather-control powers...although I think that's bit of a stretch), Shaman/Dr Strange(Physicians turned magic-users).


I do remember the part where Courtney gets covered in mystical goop (by Shaman) that puts all its Dark Guardian electromagnetic frazzmistats out of commission. Do I believe Courtney would be scared of Madison Jeffries? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe that Courtney would be so rattled as to throw Flashback in front of him when Diamond Lil was there? No, I don't. I totally agree that Courtney is a quick-thinking robot with instincts, computer-like logical instincts, though, and its response should have been effective, efficient, and productive. Throwing Flashback in front was none of those things. Therefore, Flashback's death is one of those things that should be corrected in a decent story, it if it could be. IMO

As I see it...Delphine panicked and Flashback was the closest thing she could use as a shield.



Mantlo's Puck always whined about not having any super-powers, but anybody who can keep a malignant demon inside of him for decades (a retcon MANTLO himself introduced) and still be an effective government agent, bouncer, Alpha Flighter must have some sorta special quality about him. I don't think most people would've been able to do it.

But I like Judd as he was originally conceived: tough, resilient, knowledgable, adventureous, short, demonless.

Um...I think that's a given with most AF fans, Garry.

Dana

[Ben]

I don't know of a single AF fan that liked what Mantlo did with Puck. The thing with his run on AF was that he obviously didn't have an interest in many of the established characters, so he messed with them, killed them off, ans wrote them badly. He made some rather good new characters IMO, wrote them well, and otherwise had some decent stories. However, what he did to Roger, Puck, Northstar, Snowbird ect. was just terrible. I did like what he did with Jeffries and Heateher, though I think he opened the character of Jeffries up a bit too much, he should have kept his grim stoic exterior more.

Ben

[Garry/Al-Fan]

As I see it...Delphine panicked and Flashback was the closest thing she could use as a shield. Dana


We are talking about a robot not an android (a distinction that Byrne himself felt important enough to make), aren't we?

[kozzi24]

Diamond Lil supposedly has super-hard skin, but gets poked and prodded with ease.

Unable to be injured or have her skin penetrated IS different from not being able to feel pain.

[kozzi24]

Puck no longer needs the retcon after Nicienza's run. His natural state is now short, sans demon, and in addition to his agility and "peak" human abilities, he is superstrong, around Spider-Man levels. It's been fixed and maybe improved a little, so Mantlo's BD is best just forgotten.

[cmdrkoenig67]

As I see it...Delphine panicked and Flashback was the closest thing she could use as a shield. Dana


We are talking about a robot not an android (a distinction that Byrne himself felt important enough to make), aren't we?

She could still have emotions and not be an android...ala R2-D2 and C-3PO...not androids..."droids"...closer to robots than androids, but they had feelings....as did the Robinson's robot in Lost in Space and the Giant Robot in the first episode of the Tom Baker's first season as the Doctor in Doctor Who...All of whom were capable of panicking....right?

Dana

[Phil]

Don't think it's gonna be an issue...

[kozzi24]

Androids ARE robots, guys.
C-3PO is an android...he is modeled after (roughly) a human/sentient.
R2-D2 is not an android, but is a functional tool.
The term robot came from a Czech play by Capek: RUR: Rossum's Universal Robots. Robot means "worker" in Czeck.

And on topic, I don't think much of Alpha is likely to be seen in House of M, unfortunately.

[beetleblack]

I was only thinking the other day how Alpha Flight might have been involved in House of M if they were still around, I kinda concluded that the last incarnation would most probably NOT have been. There's probably not much room for comedy in this "reality spanning series", not sure if that's good or not.

If they are going to blame Wanda Maximoff for every strange inconsistency which has ever occured in the Marvel Universe then maybe they could use her to explain away the very confusing final issue of v3 with all the duplicate Alphans?

[puffdoggydaddy]

Mantlo's Puck always whined about not having any super-powers, but anybody who can keep a malignant demon inside of him for decades (a retcon MANTLO himself introduced) and still be an effective government agent, bouncer, Alpha Flighter must have some sorta special quality about him. I don't think most people would've been able to do it.

I always felt that Puck's hyperagility was a power directly related to his holding the Demon Razer in check.

puff

[kozzi24]

House of M may or not have Alpha, but I'm pretty psyched to learn Cloak & Dagger will be playing a part!

[mos_def]

he was some big time cat burgular assasin type when he was 6'6'' before he became the Puck we all know and love

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Diamond Lil supposedly has super-hard skin, but gets poked and prodded with ease.

Unable to be injured or have her skin penetrated IS different from not being able to feel pain.

According to the Seagle story-arc, Diamond Lil has been injected with "Thetagen" or something.

I'm not going to nit-pick about the Courtney-Flashback-Diamond Lil scene anymore because I considered AFV1# 28 one of the best Alpha Flight stories ever published and still do.

[rplass]

Since I don't see a single Alphan in this picture, I doubt that any Alpha Flight member will be involved, unless it's quite a minor cameo.

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/HouseofM/sketchbook/houseofm_poster_t.jpg

This may be a good thing, but who knows? Yes, it's all hype and mysterious. It reminds me so much of the 2002 Superbowl with all those "m-life" commercials that nobody knew what they were. Is "m-life" even like, uh, still, uh, alive? Blech, I'm not falling for another "m"-mystery again. Just hurry it on up and give me my Alpha Flight fix, please.

Love,
rplass