About northstar :)

[Harfang]

let's talk about Northstar , dont 'you think that for a quebecer nationalist , having an english code-name is quite paradoxical ?


Knowing Jean-Paul's background , it's very surprising :shock:

[Ben]

I would assume James Hudson assigned the codnames when they first joined Alpha.

Ben

[syvalois]

yes, ok, I can get that but why accept it? JP is not someone to that just obey. I just think it's shows again how he likes to pissed off people, better hurt them first them him. But most of all, I just think John Byrne had no clue as how to give him a francophone codename and he just did not knew how hard it is for a francophone to prononce that damn name!

[Legerd]

The reality most likely is: John Byrne (an anglais) created a team for an American company, of course the characters will have english codenames. Marketing-wise, it's also easier for the readers who might find a french codename hard to pronounce.
In the story it could probably be explained that Northstar didn't really care what he was called, as long as he was with his sister.

La réalité est très probablement : John Byrne (des anglais) a créé une équipe pour une compagnie américaine, naturellement les caractères aura des noms de code anglais. Marketing-sage, il est également plus facile pour les lecteurs qui pourraient trouver un nom de code français dur pour prononcer. Dans l'histoire il pourrait expliquer probablement que Northstar ne s'est pas vraiment inquiété ce qu'il s'est appelé, aussi long qu'il était avec sa soeur.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I would assume James Hudson assigned the codenames when they first joined Alpha.

Ben

The second X-Men/Alpha Flight 2-issue mini-series " shows Gary Cody to be a back-biting, underhanded, two-faced SOB...a characterization that was hinted at (unless I'm reading too much into it) through Puck's misgivings back in AFV1# 13. Shaman didn't say a damn thing [b][directly to Cody, though he spoke briefly to Heather, primarily as her physician] in that scene (I don't recall); I've always thought there was a reason why (unless I'm reading too much into it). While James was training to become "Weapon Alpha," who knows what Jerry Jaxon and Cody did in James' name?

My personal take is James was more involved with Aurora, [I'd like to believe Roger Bochs], Northstar, Sasquatch, Shaman, and Snowbird, but the others---including Puck and Marrina---weren't as connected to him.

[syvalois]

La réalité est très probablement : John Byrne (des anglais) a créé une équipe pour une compagnie américaine, naturellement les caractères aura des noms de code anglais. Marketing-sage, il est également plus facile pour les lecteurs qui pourraient trouver un nom de code français dur pour prononcer. Dans l'histoire il pourrait expliquer probablement que Northstar ne s'est pas vraiment inquiété ce qu'il s'est appelé, aussi long qu'il était avec sa soeur.

You write french? or it's a translator? Anyway, I like it. Harfang, I'm so happy you joined!!!! :P

That's what I think too. Plus Vega do not sound as good as Northstar. And finding a good codename in french is very hard. But characterwise, how can you explain JP codename? I think you got the link, he just did not care for AF as long as he was with his sister. Being a souverainiste, he don't really recognize Canada authority and just don't care about the team. AT first anyway. But I think he grew to like the people he was working with even if he did not wanted too.

Like I always find funny that Aurora in french is Aurore and Aurore in Québec ring with Aurore the martyr child as seen in this site (vous pouvez aussi lire le site en français):

http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/gagnon/accueil/indexen.html
http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/gagnon/images/site/2894_3.jpg

[cmdrkoenig67]

Sorry, but I Have to change the subject(I found the story of Aurore really upsetting).

Is Vega Quebecois(did I spell that correctly?) for Northstar, Sylvie? I always wondered what his name would be in Quebec french.

Dana

[kozzi24]

Isn't "Vega" the official name of the north star?

As for his taking the name, easiest solution might be that Aurora came up with it, thus he accepted it to ingratiate himself to his "new" sister?

There could be a psychological characterization aspect also. The North star is the light in the sky that guides others...Jean-Paul may have liked the name because it implies he is not a follower.

[syvalois]

Sorry, but I Have to change the subject(I found the story of Aurore really upsetting).


So you know now it's impossible to see Northstar call Aurora, Aurore like we saw in AF



Is Vega Quebecois(did I spell that correctly?) for Northstar, Sylvie? I always wondered what his name would be in Quebec french.

No, it's the french translator that named him like that. Word-for-word translation for Northstar would be étoile du Nord, not really a cool codename and very long to say. Véga is another star in the lyra constellation.

And Kozzi, it's a good explaination, but the name is still in english and still difficult to pronounced in french and still not part of a souverainiste mentality.

[HappyCanuck]

Isn't "Vega" the official name of the north star?.

Nope, the official name for the north star is 'Polaris' (in the constellation the Little Dipper/Ursa Minor). Vega is the brightest star in the constellation Lyra, closer to the mid-latitudes. but since Polaris is already taken for a code name, Vega works too.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Nah...I say we stick with Northstar.

Dana

[JohnnyCanuck]

[quote]
And Kozzi, it's a good explaination, but the name is still in english and still difficult to pronounced in french and still not part of a souverainiste mentality.


Just pondering here. Now we are calling JP a souverainiste but is that his real motivation?? I mean, how many sepratists are flight teachers in the US?
Anyway. What I'm getting at is his tough guy act and all that may be just an act that he has concocted to hide the insecurities he had for being gay at a time that homosexuality was not particularily accepted especially in a predominatly Catholic society. I think that the joining of the FLQ was or I should say, may have been a way for him to get easy acceptance (if for the wrong reason) by endearing himself to the celebrated cause of the time. I think that this provided him an outlet for his aggression also.
Now... Well Recently ... he teaches at an academy of mutants where he knows he is not judged, but still in a country that would dislike him for being mutant, gay and french. ( Sorry for the generalizations to anyone)

Just pondering. It's also late and I may not have worded this right. That's Life.

JC

[kozzi24]

Anyway. What I'm getting at is his tough guy act and all that may be just an act that he has concocted to hide the insecurities he had for being gay at a time that homosexuality was not particularily accepted especially in a predominatly Catholic society. I think that the joining of the FLQ was or I should say, may have been a way for him to get easy acceptance (if for the wrong reason) by endearing himself to the celebrated cause of the time. I think that this provided him an outlet for his aggression also.

Why pin his personality defects on being gay?

The man was orphaned TWICE. The fact that he had retained the surname of the second dead parents indicates he was in some type of orphanage or foster care from the time he was 6 to legal adulthood. Which means no one else adopted him.
From his perspective, he was "abandoned" by people who should love him for life TWICE and then faced constant rejection in not being adopted again.
That alone covers most of his emotional baggage, defensiveness and aloofness without any needed explanation in his sexuality.
And should he have adjusted much better during volume 1? He lost Belmonde in #7, Clementine in Marvel Fanfare circa AF #35, and throughout, was being bullied by Walter and rebuffed by his sister.

[HappyCanuck]

Why pin his personality defects on being gay?

The man was orphaned TWICE. The fact that he had retained the surname of the second dead parents indicates he was in some type of orphanage or foster care from the time he was 6 to legal adulthood. Which means no one else adopted him.
From his perspective, he was "abandoned" by people who should love him for life TWICE and then faced constant rejection in not being adopted again.
That alone covers most of his emotional baggage, defensiveness and aloofness without any needed explanation in his sexuality.
And should he have adjusted much better during volume 1? He lost Belmonde in #7, Clementine in Marvel Fanfare circa AF #35, and throughout, was being bullied by Walter and rebuffed by his sister.

I'm doing it again; I'm agreeing with Kozzi *sigh*... oh well. And that's not including the stuff he's subjected HIMSELF to...

[kozzi24]

I'm doing it again; I'm agreeing with Kozzi *sigh*... oh well. And that's not including the stuff he's subjected HIMSELF to...
I am an adoptee, in foster care for the first two years of my life, and always...often by coincidence as it was learned later, ended up befriending other who were also adoptees. I understand the psych effects well.

[Legerd]

You write french? or it's a translator? Anyway, I like it. Harfang, I'm so happy you joined!!!! :P

I (cheated) used a translation website:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Je me suis rendu compte quand Harfang nous a joints que les francophones travaillaient pour communiquer en anglais, mais nous des anglos n'essayions pas du tout d'écrire en français. Ainsi j'ai figuré qu'il est le mineur que je pourrais faire.

Je me demande si John Byrne savait Aurore quand il a créé le caractère de Jeanne-Marie ?

[JohnnyCanuck]

Anyway. What I'm getting at is his tough guy act and all that may be just an act that he has concocted to hide the insecurities he had for being gay at a time that homosexuality was not particularily accepted especially in a predominatly Catholic society. I think that the joining of the FLQ was or I should say, may have been a way for him to get easy acceptance (if for the wrong reason) by endearing himself to the celebrated cause of the time. I think that this provided him an outlet for his aggression also.

Why pin his personality defects on being gay?

The man was orphaned TWICE. The fact that he had retained the surname of the second dead parents indicates he was in some type of orphanage or foster care from the time he was 6 to legal adulthood. Which means no one else adopted him.
From his perspective, he was "abandoned" by people who should love him for life TWICE and then faced constant rejection in not being adopted again.
That alone covers most of his emotional baggage, defensiveness and aloofness without any needed explanation in his sexuality.
And should he have adjusted much better during volume 1? He lost Belmonde in #7, Clementine in Marvel Fanfare circa AF #35, and throughout, was being bullied by Walter and rebuffed by his sister.

I was pinning the personality defects on insecurity , the homosexuality was just a contributing factor. You have added to that list, and your additions don't necessarily exclude my thoughts.

JC

[Harfang]

Hi all , sun and beach in France , excellent !!!

thanks for your French transaltion , Legerd, but i don't undertand your sentence : "Ainsi j'ai figuré qu'il est le mineur que je pourrais faire " Can you write it in English please :)

About john Byrne and Aurora ( In France we say also Aurora and not Aurore even if Aurore is the french tranlation )

I think Byrne wanted to show us the duality of Quebec , most of quebecers speaks French (and doesn't want to be mixed into an english pool ) they may be represented by NorthStar but there is also a English minority that would be represented by Aurora
I said MAYBE of course , syvalois could explain it better than me

In French now :wink:

Je ne connais pas non plus le Quebec d'un point de vue socialogique mais d'un point de vue Francais , la France etant particulierement attachée au Quebec pour des raisons evidentes :)

Les quebecois ne sont pas tous des souverainistes ou des independantistes (il n'y a qu'a voir les referendums pour l'independance qui ont tous echoué malheureusement)
John byrne en creant la Division Alpha , se devait d'integrer toute les particularités qui font le Canada et une equipe qui represente au maximum les Provinces canadienes . Il etait casiment obligé d'integrer le Quebec certes francophone mais egalement anglophone ; comme je l'ai dis plus haut , les quebecois ne sontpas tous francophones ou independantistes . Vega/Northstar representerait le coté francais et independantiste ( une face du quebec que meme Byrne , ou l'Amerique ne peut occulter ) et Aurora representerait soit les anglophones quebecois ; soit les quebecois francais qui ne sont pas independantistes et/ou qui ne veulent pas quitter le Canada

bon j'ai mieux developper en francais evidement car c'est plus facile a expliquer j'essaierai de traduire plus tard en anglais (je vais avoir du mal je le sens :lol: )

[syvalois]

I mean, how many sepratists are flight teachers in the US?

Well, I don't know for flight teachers?, but You would be suprised how many separatists lived outside Québec. I don't know much myself, but usually I think it's people that goes away for better coming back. Like right now Boisclair, he was considered to be the next Parti Québécois chief. Left the political left and went to study in the US, I don't remember which famous University. Parizeau, remember him? study in France and in England, René Lévesque admit in his book that he would have liked to lived in the US and for world war 2, he was a journalist for the US army (he also was a perfect bilingual).


Anyway. What I'm getting at is his tough guy act and all that may be just an act that he has concocted to hide the insecurities he had for being gay at a time that homosexuality was not particularily accepted especially in a predominatly Catholic society. I think that the joining of the FLQ was or I should say, may have been a way for him to get easy acceptance (if for the wrong reason) by endearing himself to the celebrated cause of the time. I think that this provided him an outlet for his aggression also.

Of course JP is hiding his insecurities behind the tough guy act! BUt it's not only because he was gay. I know you meant more then that and like Kozzi said been loosing 2 set of parent and living in foster home after that is just enough to explain that. But again, you had homosexuality, mutant and speak french in north america (JP is not french, never was never will be) in a time of great change in Québec. As for joining the FLQ, it's definitly more the francophone aspect that motivate him that the gay aspect in him. And the FLQ just fuelled him with all the agressivity stuck inside him. He just learn that the FLQ was not the right way to optain what you wanted, but it does not mean he changed political view. It would explain why he was just ith AF for his sister. Again, a small hint to his political view made by Byrne, IMO.

I would even find it a little bit offensive to Québécers, if he stopped been a souverainiste. I know it's not the case (been offensive, I mean), but JP going from a separatist terrorist group to federalist could be interpreted as if separatist= terrorist and that is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong. From what I've heard, I think there are like 30% of quebecers that are die hard souverainiste, an other 30% is die hard federalist and the 40% left or goes between the 2 or just don't care about politics. But I would say that in that 40% a majority thinks they are quebecer firsst and Canadian second.

So, my point is with Northstar, Aurora and Jeanne-Marie we get the rating. Northstar separatist, Jeanne-Marie federalist and Aurora just don't care about politics. but then again, I could see been Jeanne-Marie that just don't want to talk politic and it been Aurora that is federalist, but I just see Jeanne-Marie as the more catholic repressed afraid of changed person that would vote for the no change.

[syvalois]

Hi all , sun and beach in France , excellent !!!

Tu n'es pas un tantinet baveux? Il fait froid et pluvieux ici. lol


thanks for your French transaltion , Legerd, but i don't undertand your sentence : "Ainsi j'ai figuré qu'il est le mineur que je pourrais faire " Can you write it in English please :)

Merci Legerd too. Il voulait dire : «Je me suis dit que c'est le moins que je puisse faire». Il faut imaginer la phrase dite en anglais et traduite mot pour mot.


I think Byrne wanted to show us the duality of Quebec , most of quebecers speaks French (and doesn't want to be mixed into an english pool ) they may be represented by NorthStar but there is also a English minority that would be represented by Aurora
I said MAYBE of course , syvalois could explain it better than me

I think I better translate the stuff you said, c'est vrai que le développement est mieux et je t'évite de faire la traduction. J'écrirais mes réponses en français aussi, mais j'ai pas le temps. Tu le dis si tu aimes pas ma traduction.

Anyway, you know what I think of the subject see higher up!



Je ne connais pas non plus le Quebec d'un point de vue socialogique mais d'un point de vue Francais , la France etant particulierement attachée au Quebec pour des raisons evidentes :)

translation: I don't know the Québec form a sociolagical point of view but from a french one. French being particularly fond of Québécois for obvious reasons.

Les quebecois ne sont pas tous des souverainistes ou des independantistes (il n'y a qu'a voir les referendums pour l'independance qui ont tous echoué malheureusement)
John byrne en creant la Division Alpha , se devait d'integrer toute les particularités qui font le Canada et une equipe qui represente au maximum les Provinces canadienes . Il etait casiment obligé d'integrer le Quebec certes francophone mais egalement anglophone ; comme je l'ai dis plus haut , les quebecois ne sontpas tous francophones ou independantistes . Vega/Northstar representerait le coté francais et independantiste ( une face du quebec que meme Byrne , ou l'Amerique ne peut occulter ) et Aurora representerait soit les anglophones quebecois ; soit les quebecois francais qui ne sont pas independantistes et/ou qui ne veulent pas quitter le Canada

Quebecers are not all separatists (just look at the 2 referendums for independance that saddly failed)
John Byrne in creating AF had to ad all the particularity that makes Canada and make a team of people that characterised at maximum all the different provinces. He was almost obligated to integrate a Quebec that speak franch but also the the one that speach english; like I said above not all quebecers are not all francophones or separatist. Nortstar represents the francophone aspect and separatist ( A aspect of Québec that even Byrne or North America could not hide for themselves) and Aurora, represent the anglophone quebecers; or the francophones from Québec that are not separatist and/or that do not want to leave Canada.

I like your idea, but I like mine better:P

[burN@]

http://www3.sympatico.ca/burnparadise/SimbaCharges.gif
let's talk about Northstar , dont 'you think that for a quebecer nationalist , having an english code-name is quite paradoxical ?


Knowing Jean-Paul's background , it's very surprising :shock:


http://www3.sympatico.ca/burnparadise/nouvelles.gifOk, Dude !!!

http://www3.sympatico.ca/burnparadise/QCFLOTT.gif
"Je suis un Montréalais et je peux affirmé quant tant que souverainiste pure et dure, NorthStar, c'est un nom de code très Montréalais. Nous vivons autant en fancais qu'en anglais."

Sylvie come from Quebec city and Port Cartier at the north of Quebec province, and that people they don't talk english enought. Me i'm a indepandance Quebecer from Montreal city and the english it is omnipresent in the daily life, so NORTHSTAR is a good code name if you are a french independantiste and you come from Montreal. But the real name of him "Jean-Paul Beaubier" it's more a french canadien name and not a Quebecer french name, replace it by "Jean-Paul Bourque", that is a Quebecer french name. :wink:

So NorthtStar is the only caracter in the serie i prefer, because is come from Montreal Quebec, he's separatiste, and is gay (i'm not but it make him the most marginal caracter on the serie.)

http://www.alphaflight.net/character_galleries/northstar/northstar_gallery19.jpg

[Legerd]

thanks for your French transaltion , Legerd, but i don't undertand your sentence : "Ainsi j'ai figuré qu'il est le mineur que je pourrais faire " Can you write it in English please :)

I was trying to say: "I figure it's the least I can do." Darn translator!

[syvalois]

thanks for your French transaltion , Legerd, but i don't undertand your sentence : "Ainsi j'ai figuré qu'il est le mineur que je pourrais faire " Can you write it in English please :)

I was trying to say: "I figure it's the least I can do." Darn translator!

LOL, I was right! They translate a little bit too much word for word and sometimes, well more often then not they are not true but close enough. :wink: Better then nothing at least!