The All-New Alpha Flight, over before it started

[Julesville]

Hello there, eh! Long time fan of Alpha Flight here.

I was initialy excited about the new series when I first heard it was coming out, Alpha FLight's dinamic has always been really appealing to me, however, it really did not live up to my expectations.

Not to be insulting or anything, but it just seemed it was too focused on comedy and now enough on substance, plot, action, etc. The whole premise was also kinda dumb, there were plenty of better alternatives for Walter then form a compeltly novice group of heros to save the OGs of Canada (i.e. the second series team with Murmur and Flex, Avengers, X-Men). The ending to that first arc was also a little silly, the fact that the other team just wakes up and they solve everything, there was no climactic battle of good and evil, and that whole animosity between them all sort of fizzled out.

I'm sorry to say this but it just wasn't that good.

I was a big fan of the second series team, with Flex and Radius and Murmur. They were the next generation, what the hell happened to them? I guess Radius is dead or whatever...

Some things I did like were the characters introduced. Puck is one cool character; tough, mouthy, gritty, still sexy and cute, with appeling powers and history, and the fact that she's so canadio-centric, everybody loves a local-yokle.

Also, Major Mapleleaf is the best! He's one of those good-hearted do-gooders, who were everywhere in the Golden Age, but now are hard to find. Those chacters still serve a purpose as being a guiding light for other characters and anti-heros. He has an intersting background filled with provocative denial, compelling dialog, and relativly no powers, just skill. He's the real Canadian Captian America.

Both these guys have potential for the future, even beyond Alpha Flight. I could see both tearing it up with Deadpool or Wolverine.

Centenial was interesting, I suppose he'd be fun to follow, but it was still kinda weird. Nemesis... just let her die. Yukon Jack is like Namor for the land, but not as cool, and Namor ain't that cool.

I'll probubly get yelled at for this, but you always run that risk when you post your opinion.

See ya, eh. 8)

[Mokole]

I like Nemesis; Yukon Jack and Centennial I wouldn't bring back in a new AF as active members. Zuzha and MML were good characters.

In a new AF I'd have:

- the Hudsons running Department H, raising their daughter
- Ghost Girl and Flex being the only surviving Legacies, a bit de-powered, and acting as 'watchers' for Alpha Flight in B.C.
- Zuzha and MML would be married but still part-time members, living in the Maritimes and being AF's eyes/ears out there
- Snowbird, Shaman, and Earthmover (initially, in time Earthmover would, uh, change) would be in AF but would spend lots of time up north. Yukon Jack would be the true eyes/ears up north
- Nemesis and Centennial will help AF if really, really needed but Centennial wants to live out his days with his sweety Nemesis and Nemesis refuses to work for Heather; however, Malcom Princeton will be joing Alpha Flight in his stead

Puck and Sasquatch leading Alpha Flight with Snowbird, Shaman, and Earthmover, Malcom too (Poundmaker), maybe Zuzha and MML has permanent memebers too, we'll see.

Welcome, Julesville!

[Julesville]

I like Nemesis; Yukon Jack and Centennial I wouldn't bring back in a new AF as active members. Zuzha and MML were good characters.

In a new AF I'd have:

- the Hudsons running Department H, raising their daughter
- Ghost Girl and Flex being the only surviving Legacies, a bit de-powered, and acting as 'watchers' for Alpha Flight in B.C.
- Zuzha and MML would be married but still part-time members, living in the Maritimes and being AF's eyes/ears out there
- Snowbird, Shaman, and Earthmover (initially, in time Earthmover would, uh, change) would be in AF but would spend lots of time up north. Yukon Jack would be the true eyes/ears up north
- Nemesis and Centennial will help AF if really, really needed but Centennial wants to live out his days with his sweety Nemesis and Nemesis refuses to work for Heather; however, Malcom Princeton will be joing Alpha Flight in his stead

Puck and Sasquatch leading Alpha Flight with Snowbird, Shaman, and Earthmover, Malcom too (Poundmaker), maybe Zuzha and MML has permanent memebers too, we'll see.

Welcome, Julesville!Sweet, thanks for the welcome.

Sounds like you've been mulling it over a bit, do you have fanfic based on this, it sounds good.

That sounds like a really good idea actually, bring back all the famous members as "celebritys" reserve members who help with anylitical and legistic stuff. Make it a family, maybe a dysfunctional one, one where people do come together for the common good.

[Powersurge]

I haven't actually read any of vol.2 or 3, but from what I read and seen ABOUT vol.3, it doesn't look all that appealing to me.

Weapon Alpha/Vindicator/Guardian/James Mac was always my favourite Alphan, so I would definitely like to see him take a major role in any 4th volume of the title.

I hated it when they killed him off in volume 1, an event that signalled the begin of the end for me and Alpha Flight; although I'm now planning to go back and pick up where I left off.

Mac is back alive, right?!?!?

[JohnnyCanuck]

I kinda new it wasn't going to last. I had hoped it would and I'd started getting into the characters, but I knew the comedy and the Real team not being there was going to kill it. Lobdell tried something and used the safe haven of an unused fringe group to point the blame to if it failed. Lobdell blew it and severly damaged the good name of Alpha Flight in the process.

...but deep down (or not so deep) we knew it wasn't going to work from the first book.

JohnnyCanuck

[syvalois]

I guess my answer is no, since I never bother to buy the book. I only bought like issue 3or 4 and thought there was a nice drawing that has big large panels to many times and felt like there was not enough text (content) so the artist had to fill the spaces which at the end told me, that for 4$ and something, I did not had enough for my money.

It also involved characters I did not cared about, so that's why.

[birdygirl]

Welcome, Julesville! :D You've got some good ideas about Alpha Flight, utilizing both the old characters and the new.

My two cents regarding the most recent series:

I wanted to like the new series, (Volume 3). I mean, I really wanted to. It had great art, (after John Byrne, Clayton Henry would have to be my favorite AF artist); and Scott Lobdell did write some good AF stories in the first run, ("Bachelor Party", anyone?). So I had high hopes for the book.

But, I couldn't get into it. I'm sorry, I really tried, but the new series never did anything for me. What I feel hurt the book, (as well as Volume 2 to a certain extent), was the substitution of totally new and unfamiliar characters for the classic AF team most people probably expected to see. Now, I'm not totally against new team members, but why shove the original team, (save for one or two members) completely out of the picture?

Hopefully, if there is ever a Volume 4, Marvel will have learned from their previous mistakes handling the book, and give us the characters we really want and expect to see: a mix of the new AND the old! :D

[PWalk]

I thought the last series was pretty decent up until the last couple of frames of issue #12. What a way to completely ruin a book. Anyway I'd just be rehashing things I've said somewhere else on here so I'll look at the new characters now.

Yukon Jack: I liked him. He wouldn't make my list as an A class member but I can certainly see him in a supporting role in the future.

Puck/Zuzha: Again great potential in the character. The team needed a wiseass and she fit the bill very well.

MML: Probably the best of the bunch in the new class. Written well he could be a great character.

Centennial: Great character who I think personally would be great written by an author who would handle him right.

[Barnacle13]

I also really wanted to like the last version of Alpha Flight. The characters I'll admit did grow on me a bit, but then so did several disgusting zits when I was in high school. I think I gave them more of a chance than I would have if they'd first shown up in Avengers or X-men. MMJ was my favorite of the bunch, just because he fit in the least. Puck had spunk, which was good, but just no match for the real Puck. And I liked Centenial, just because he wasn't your typical hero. Yukon Jack I could do without. Nemesis, eh, didn't impress in this series. Sasquatch, the most powerful of the buch just sat back and watched most of the battles. I kept waiting for him to tear loose, but never really happened. The pace of the stories was excruciatingly slow, at least until it was way too late to save the title. They should have started with the time travel storyline first and taken a page out of Exiles and straightened out their convoluted history. Maybe then we'd still be reading Alpha Flight. I think the lack of a list Alphans hurt the book, but it wasn't until issue #6 that we find out they won't be back for a long long time. The writing is what killed the title. The art was phenomenal! The stories blew!

[Garry/Al-Fan]

The climax and direction of volume 3 are ill-conceived: the original Alphans are captured, then end up escorting world-conquering PLODEX eggs to their revived home planet.

Creatively, AFV3 had lots going for it: awesome artwork, coloring, and lettering, plus a formidible PLODEX threat. But the stories didn't really try to recapture the Alpha Flight fan who had been waiting for a creative team to take the series seriously.

I like Zuzha, I can take Yukon Jack and MML in small doses, Nemesis should just become an out-and-out AF villainess, and Centennial should rest in peace. I just like the originals better and want to see them---strong, serious, and effective---before anybody from vols. 2 and 3 return.

[Julesville]

Hey I'm pretty popular now, or at least my rantings.

In terms of the old team, I don't mind not seeing them, I like it when the team upgrades and becomes new, and I think it's really lame when they imediatly go back to the default when the series ends. Then again it's weird how they seem to disappear form the scene before each new series.

I do wanna see new characters, just ones that fit though. No one this time seemed to fit the AF scheme, they were awkward in the whole team dynamic.

Centennial is a "Superman" characer, a living Dues Ex Machina, with the flying and the strength and the heat vision and the invulnerability, he should work like one, take out whole armies while the team watched, but at the same time his kryptonite should be obvious, his age. He should have weak bones, bad hearing and eye sight, fall asleep alot, and ultimately overexerets himself and has a heartattack and dies at the last battle.

Nemesis would do better as a sneaky, conniving creep, trapped within the ranks. Yukon Jack was stupid and should never have existed, maybe his character could go off and become a Playgirl model or something where he's not around.

I've said my peace on the other two. Sasquatch shold take a vacation.

Alpha Flight needs freash blood, not just using the old formula, but they can't completly cut it out, or use it as a solution for all their continuity screw ups.

peace out, eh

[Barnacle13]

I think for Alpha Flight to have any chance it has to have at least a core team of original Alphans. That run went 130 issues! The last attempt at a new team went from 40K copies to 25K copies overnight when it was discovered the originals would not be a part of the ongoing story. New blood is fine and dandy, but if the book can't sustain itself the likes of MMJ, Zuzha, Yukon, and Centenial all become cannon fodder for the next big X-men character culling. I'd love to see a lineup that is based heavily in V1 characters (Puck, Sasquatch, Talisman, Snowbird, Box (could even be a V2 or 3 character)) with perhaps Flex or Ghost Girl from V2 and MMJ from V3. More importantly though make the stories good and the characters worth caring about. Alpha Flight worked because they were a family. The past two series haven't had that feel. Alpha Flight could be huge if done correctly. It used to be one of the top titles on the market! It has a die hard fan base! Someone at Marvel just needs to care.

[kozzi24]

Volume 3 of Alpha was all Sasquatch's dream of leading the team.
It never happened, and he saw what a mess he'd make of it, so he will follow the leadership of Shaman, the Hudsons and Puck for now on.
None of it ever really happened.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Sounds good to me. :D

Dana

[Legerd]

That's want I'm hoping will be the explaination when AF Vol. 4 comes out.

[Julesville]

Naw that's a cop out, we gotta respect Vol. 3 as canon, it really happened.

The really thing to hope for is a writer that's multitasky enough to collectivly draw together every loose end ever and noose around your brain stem, someone who can create order from chaos, who has the guts to murder the people who must die, and be ever faithful to the principles around which the comic was formed.

I nominate myself!!! Muwahahahahahaha!!!

Seriously, I got this idea. It'll bring back the old characters that were lost in the shake up (Pathway, Goblyn, Talisman, Flex, Murmer, and bring Radius back to life, if Sunpyre can survive her gunshot death, he can survive his) as well as a bunch of characters that can be key to the series (Northstar, Wolverine, Weapon P.R.I.M.E., Big Hero 6) and the good ole Master of the freakin' World, as well as focusing on the "Original" (Guardian, Shaman, Earthmover, etc.) and some of the "All-Different" (MML, Puck, Centennial) characters.

My idea is resolution of the past; the Master's final solution; AF need for a revival or the planet is doomed; the cleansing of the spirits of each member; the hope of a nation; and some other stuff.

[Legerd]

Naw that's a cop out, we gotta respect Vol. 3 as canon, it really happened.

Hey, if it was good enough for Dallas... :D


My idea is resolution of the past; the Master's final solution; AF need for a revival or the planet is doomed; the cleansing of the spirits of each member; the hope of a nation; and some other stuff.

Wow, sounds ambitious! Are you going to write this as a fanfic?

[Julesville]

My idea is this; the "All-Different" members all retired, while the "Past Originals" become the premeir super-heros again, uniting the Canadian people. However, they are actually perfected Plodex clones, created by the Master, who orchestrated AF's capture at the beginning of Vol. 3. In that first arc, he underestimated the power of the new team and aborted his plan to copy AF into the Plodex eggs, mid-plot. Hidden in the lower recesses of the Plodex Ship, he watched the endless jokes and banter and he realized that even if the greatest heros fell, there would be more to replace them because the allure of good was too strong.

As long as he was a villian, he would be defeated by heros. So he abandoned his desgins for violent conquering and instead studied the heros, through his spy, Mar, ya know, the Plodex mascot they had.

Finally he came up with another plan, perfecting the plodex clones of the orignial AF, and bartering for genetic specs on Northstar and Aurora from Hydra and Weapon X's Sinister, respectively, he built his clones filled with the memories and principles of the original AF, but ignorant of their creation by the Master. Sinister and the Master are evil pen-pals, doncha know.

Using Garner Monroe aka Flashback, intcing him with the thought that he could send a clone back in time instead, he orchestrated that whole ******ed time-caper. Firstly, by pulling the old transmitter behind the ear trick with Big Hero 6, he was able to bring AF out in the open for Flashback to impliment his plan. They all returned back, where the Master had activated his most devious devise yet, the Rediculoid. A devise that entertains the rediculous yet plausible ideas of the people it traps. As soon as the Alphans sat down, all 6 of them, plus Flashback, plus the Horse, were assimliated into the machine, while the Master watched on the big screen.

This is how that stupid story arc took place, the devise encouraged the dumb **** that took place, and the people's own resourcful cognitive function ensured that the plot line would be resolved in a confusing, yet beleivable way.

So that that strange crap going down, the Master watched, and when he saw the bag and coins thing, he finished his plan, he made a bag with some cybernetic enhancements, walked into the room, put it on the table, punch Sasquach in the ear, grab Flashback and went back below. The dumb story played out and they woke up in the ship without knowing anything was different, hence, no time change. They open the bag and with a little smoke and mirrors the idiots were ready to beleive anything.

Plausible? Plausible enough, this is Marvel after all.

So, the Plodex clones take there place as the big shots, as the "All-Different" team voluntarily retires and dissappears. Walt researches in the arctic, Puck and MML live together in Toronto, YJ goes home, the other two dissappear. Meanwhile, AF, them being from the heyday of super-heroing, become the force that unites Canada, lauding it's praises at every opportunity. Mac becomes leader figure and teaches the kids good lessons, Heather becomes example of the modern canadian carrer woman, Puck helps train the olympic gymnastics team, Northsta, Aurora, and Snowbird do everything from starring in movies to nudey mags to fashion lines. Aurora is canada's new sex symbol, and Northstar their new same sex symbol, hah hah hah. AF so boombards the culture that the peopel would do anything for them, like LA and the Lakers.

And this is how the Master rules the world. The clones don't know it but they are actually working at the behest of the Master, and it's only a matter of time before he makes a bid for the planet, right, and what about those heros in space, he can't have them coming back and ruining his plans. It's up to the unlikly former Alphans and some friends to wrest control of canada's heart back from the Master.

Can canada's laid off, has-been super-heros stop AF before it becomes the pawn in the Master's game? Can AF overcome their programming and become the heros they beleive they are? Is the Master sincere in creating super heros or will his ego rear it's ugly, giant head?Find out all this and more in Alpha Flight Vol. 4!!! By me. Anybody know the number for marvel

[Julesville]

Naw that's a cop out, we gotta respect Vol. 3 as canon, it really happened.

Hey, if it was good enough for Dallas... :D


My idea is resolution of the past; the Master's final solution; AF need for a revival or the planet is doomed; the cleansing of the spirits of each member; the hope of a nation; and some other stuff.

Wow, sounds ambitious! Are you going to write this as a fanfic?

I'd rather go to Marvel and demand they make it, but ah... ya know, baby steps.

[Barnacle13]

I don't know. Sas' bad dream after a night of drinking and Taco Bell sounds much more plausable. That doesn't mean the V3 characters don't actually exist, but perhaps Walter has seen them in some of Mac's files and his brain kinda ran with the images, or made them up in the case of Yukon Jack. I mean does anyone really want a battle with wax dummies to be the legacy Alpha Flight leaves behind. Wipe the slate and make them real heroes again. I do like your Master idea though. Puts a new twist on his mechanizations.

[Julesville]

I don't know. Sas' bad dream after a night of drinking and Taco Bell sounds much more plausable. That doesn't mean the V3 characters don't actually exist, but perhaps Walter has seen them in some of Mac's files and his brain kinda ran with the images, or made them up in the case of Yukon Jack. I mean does anyone really want a battle with wax dummies to be the legacy Alpha Flight leaves behind. Wipe the slate and make them real heroes again. I do like your Master idea though. Puts a new twist on his mechanizations. That ain't plausable, that's pathetic. The truly good writers can take a bad storline and completely turn it around. Now I'm not saying that's me, but hell, somebody can ressurect the whole thing.

I sure hope they don';t do the whole ignroe everythign that happened thing that Marvel does all the time, sheesh.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...Sas' bad dream after a night of drinking and Taco Bell sounds much more plausable. That doesn't mean the V3 characters don't actually exist, but perhaps Walter has seen them in some of Mac's files and his brain kinda ran with the images....I mean does anyone really want a battle with wax dummies to be the legacy Alpha Flight leaves behind. Wipe the slate and make them real heroes again....

I can go along with Barnacle's idea: Walt's imagination running wild about potential super-people (even Yukon Jack). I'm not as optimistic as Julesville that a writer is going to "fix" AF's continuity. Some of it sucks. Big time.

And if MARVEL decides to go ahead with a volume 4, I'm willing to bet that they won't listen to what people say they want, and MARVEL will create even more new characters that are supposed to be taken as "Alpha Flight" and wreck the originals even more.

Wax dummies should not be even remotely considered part of AF's legacy.

[Powersurge]

You know, I hate to rant, but what is it with people in the comicbook industry and this pressing need for constant, unjustified, and even insulting and destructive change? And how can they constantly chalk such changes up to, ahem, "development" and "progress"?

Alpha Flight began, pre-volume1, as an awesome and interesting super group with great story potential. I didn't like all of the characters, but it was the line-up that popularized the team and sparked that first run. However, no sooner had the first run began when the original Guardian was killed off.

He was one of the characters that (most) everyone did like, and which defined the original Alpha Flight. Hell, the original X-Men got 93 issues and kept Cyclops after the switch. And then how long did it take to make a significant change to that team? About 100 or so more issues? Did the X-Men suffer during these "boring" periods of relative stability? Or did the title reach even new heights of success?

I won't even touch the stability of the FF roster.

I think Sasquatch's dream is a good idea, especially judging by the sound of how they handled run three. A joke should be treated as a joke.

[Barnacle13]

There ya go! Best idea yet. It was all a joke played on Walt by Puck! Challenges him to a drinking contest and records Walts ramblings as V3!