Vol. 2 vs. Vol. 3

[Julesville]

Both the "New" teams inveriably failed, neither posessing the qualities that made the original Alpha Flight so potent. However, they still had their charms.

V2 was about the mutant aspect of the Marvel world, with appealing characters like Flex, Murmur, Radius, Ghost Girl. It also showcased the original members that I really liked; Puck, by far the coolest mutha facka outta Canada ever, and Heather "Vindicator" Hudson, the heart of Alpha Flight, as well as a little bit of Madison Jefferies. The story line was pretty much about the evil of Department H, and I think it came to a good resolution with Huxley (Bad Man!!) gettin the hell outta dodge, Gentry (Good Man) taking over Department H, and the two teams workign together to stop the evil fruition of H's machinations, the third WEAPON X!!!!

V3 was... well, not nearly as thought out. It ended before any sort of REAL resolution could be established, all they did was hit the reset button and bring the old team back, and maed no sense at the same time. There were some appealing characters; Puck 2, Major Mappleleaf, Cenntennial, most created for comedic value, but with potential for crossovers.

In the end, my favorite was V2, it was just plain shinier. How about you?

[Mokole]

v2 stories were written better, story ideas for v3 were better. :o

Art in v3 was better, although early v2 was very good. 8)

Characters for v3 were better, with MML, Zuzha, Nemesis, Centennial, and Sasquatch being better than Puck, Flex, Radius, and Ghost Girl. :P

[varo]

volume 2 by far.


volume 3 was a joke and a insult to alpha flight fans.


sorry i feel so strongly but i do.


the only good thing that came out of volume 3 was clayton henry.

[PWalk]

V. 3

I enjoyed the change of pace it offered and simply found it refreshing.

[MistressMerr]

I have to say Volume 3. Volume 2 wasn't horrible, but I kinda had to trudge through every issue. Looking back, I enjoyed it overall, but reading it almost felt like a chore. Volume 3 on the other hand, actually had me looking forward to each issue. It was lighthearted and dorky. I would have preferred a semi-serious title, but I still really dug it. It also holds up to rereads, doesn't lose it's appeal. The plots left dangling due to Volume 2's cancellation make it somewhat frustrating to reread.

Then, of course, there's the art. Volume 2 was sheer fug straight through with maybe a panel or two an issue that wasn't painful to look at, and I freaking love anything Clayton Henry puts out.

[Barnacle13]

The art hand down goes to V3. Clayton's work was beautiful. I just didn't care for Duncan's style. I'll just leave it at that!

As for stories, I personally enjoyed the V2 stories much more. Yeah they were dark and conspiratorial, but at least the team wasn't being wasted fighting wax dummies. The V3 stroies never really grabbed me. I wasn't waiting to see how the wax dummies would be defeated. I figured a well placed match would do the trick. In V3 there was also never any doubt that the real Alpha Flight would never show up. They were jettisoned into space so we didn't need to worry about them. In V2 they were always in the back story somewhere.

Characterwise I liked the V2 characters alright, though there was a bit too much angst written into their characters. The V3 characters were much more fun. And I liked them visually! That's what initially got me hooked on Alpha Flight with Puck and Sasquatch back in 1984.

So in summation Volume 1 was my favorite! Take Seagle's storytelling with V3 characters and Clayton's art and it'd run a close second. But to answer the question directly I like V2 much better than V3, because it wasn't obvious from issue 2 that the book was destined to fail.

[cmdrkoenig67]

My favorite was Vol 1...the first 28 issues...it had an alien-ness to it, that I found fascinating. The characters were like me in some aspects, but yet they were different...not from my neck of the woods. Was it that John Byrne made the book feel like it actually took place in Canada? I'm not Canadian....so I really can't comment on whether it was more Canadian than any other book, but it had something.....something that no other book had.

Vol 2 VS Vol 3....I'm with Jules and Varo. I have to go with Vol 2. It (at least) had a direction and momentum. I didn't mind the Vol 2 Shadow Gov storyline...it was something...it was a meaty story, that I could sink my teeth into...Vol 3 had nothing but air, when I bit into it. Vol. 2 was going somewhere and I wanted to see where it ended up and hearing Seagal's inevitable plan for the team and the originals...I felt satisfied that it would have rocked(if it had arrived where it was headed).

Vol 3 also felt like it was constantly trying to find it's way, but failing miserably. Vol 2 lasted longer and even included more of the original team: Heather, Puck, Mac(A younger cloned version) and even Sasquatch(at least that's what we were lead to believe, at first). I like the stories better in vol 2....and it wasn't camp. I want AF to stand for Alpha Flight, not Amusing Fools....I need Alpha Flight, not Laugh-A Flight, thanks.

Dana

[varo]

does anyone know the sales figures of volume 2? as far as i remember it got cancelled at a time when marvel was going through bankruptcy and was trying to streamline their publishing load.

i could have swore the series had healthy numbers it's just that the cut-off number was pretty high. it would have done well if it was released now.


and if clayton was drawing it. :lol:

[Mokole]

Over 30,000 at cancellation.

[Julesville]

Do you think they'd put out one of those nice big graphic novel thingies for the Vol. 2 comics? How would they break it up?

That's how I read all of Vol. 3, sitting in boarders for a few hours, flipping through the graphic novels.

[birdygirl]

Volume 3 had the edge for me, because of Clayton Henry's glorious artwork, and Yukon Jack, (who was fairly --but only fairly-- interesting).

[Mystic]

I have to go with Vol.2

The stories were far better. Like someone said, those stories had meat. And although I liked Clayton Henry's art, Vol.3 was just a waste of of a year. The stories were horrible...so horrible in fact that to this day, I have yet to buy #s 11 & 12 and highly doubt I will ever buy them.

No matter how much I might like Nemesis, I would just prefer to think that vol.3 never happened at all.

MHO,
-Mystic

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Volume 2's Alpha Flight couldn't even put up a decent fight in Department H; Puck and "Mac" spent more energy making threats to each other than actually coming up with a plan that stopped Zodiac from stealing the Nth Projector.

Vol. 2 is about Dept. H; Alpha Flight is just a side-show.

Vol. 3: good art, bad direction; good plot, lousy climax; fun but it was trying to be funny.

Neither the 2nd or the 3rd volumes measure up, really.

[Legerd]

I hated both volumes! Neither one really featured AF nor were the heroes presented (IMO) all that interesting. Vol. 2's characters were ineffective heroes, being unable to even hold their own against Wolverine or the Zodiac. The whole "evil" Dept. H storyline was awful, not to mention the whole Hull House idea and the Mac clone stupidity!
Vol. 3 was just a bad idea, period.
I was sadly disappointed by both and feel they damaged the chances of any future AF series succeeding.

[Le Messor]

I agree with most of what Legerd said, except the following: 'v2 were ineffectual heroes' and not having a preference.
I don't think v2 were heroes at all. They never helped anybody, they never tried.
And, while I understand not having a preference, v3 all the way for me. I can't even look at the v2 covers without feeling a painful revulsion; they live in my 'Marvel Misc' section, not 'Alpha Flight'. For all its bad points (and I agree that it had less meat than v2), I -enjoyed- v3. I'd never have dropped the title; but in the end, the only reason I didn't drop v2 (ME? Drop Alpha Flight? You don't know how low things have to get for that to happen!!!) was because I knew it'd be cancelled shortly. (I could handle only three more issues.)

- Le Messor
"In politics, you should discuss the issues."
"Yeah, great centrefold in the July issue, eh?"
- B.C.

[Legerd]

I don't think v2 were heroes at all. They never helped anybody, they never tried.

I never really thought about it before but you're absolutely right!


I'd never have dropped the title; but in the end, the only reason I didn't drop v2 (ME? Drop Alpha Flight? You don't know how low things have to get for that to happen!!!) was because I knew it'd be cancelled shortly. (I could handle only three more issues.)

I collected both Vols. 2 & 3 in their entireties as well, only to do my part in trying to keep AF alive long enough for it to hopefully change for the better. Too bad it didn't happen. :cry:

[Julesville]

I liked Hull House! I think it has the potential for the Canadian Xavier Institute.

And maybe yeins are right, they we'ren't really heroes. Maybe if they return they can reconcile that, struggle with the hero within. Radius really got a bad rap didn't he, first Evil H's Alpha Flight, then X-Corps, what a heel.

Vol.2 was alos alot more about the Mutant side of marvel, and I think was billed pretty much that way. But Vol. 3 was more a gained powers, cause Puck II and Centennial might be mutants, but it was never explained that way, or at all.

[Legerd]

I liked Hull House! I think it has the potential for the Canadian Xavier Institute.

Have to disagree with ya J, Hull House was nothing more than Dept. H's mutie farm. They selected the kind of mutants they wanted, created them in a lab and raised them at Hull House. Or at least that seemed to be the direction the book was going in before it was cancelled. Besides, that's what Gamma and Beta Flight are for, finding and training Canadians who have special abilities. In a way Dept. H is more inclusive since they don't restrict membership to mutants only. (How about that, Prof. X is a closet bigot! :shock: )


Vol.2 was alos alot more about the Mutant side of marvel, and I think was billed pretty much that way. But Vol. 3 was more a gained powers, cause Puck II and Centennial might be mutants, but it was never explained that way, or at all.

You're right, they never did come out and say Puck II was a mutant, she could easily have gotten her powers mystically with her daddy's background but I thought Sasquatch came out and said that Centennial was a mutant. His powers just never manifested until Walt gave him the "ooga booga" treatment in the hospital. Maybe I'm wrong on that one but that's how I remember it.

[Canucklehead]

... but I thought Sasquatch came out and said that Centennial was a mutant. His powers just never manifested until Walt gave him the "ooga booga" treatment in the hospital. Maybe I'm wrong on that one but that's how I remember it.

That was never really made clear, but I remember in the hospital he said he had been doing research on Canadian veterans who had had been in contact with some type of radiation or something, while on duty. Something like that.

Anywhoo, I liked where v2 was going also. Especially after Gentry took over and started cleaning things up. I liked Flex's growth and Radius' potential. Murmur bugged the hell out of me and manbot was a little annoying at first but he grew on me a bit. I was always curious about that Flinch kid in the Beta.

I absolutely loved v3 and couldn't wait to read the next issues... until issue 6. Other then the art, the character development was the only other thing the book had going for it. Sasquatch quickly became my favorite Alphan. I loved every character in the book, but hated the situations they were put in.

It's too bad it had to flop so soon. House of M would have been an excellent oportunity to give Alpha a new spin and a new life. Plus with Northstars' huge popularity since his "death", I'm sure a book could have been successfully hyped.

Anyways, c'est la vie. If Marvel's latest trend of hyping up older forgoten characters from the 70s (cage, spider-woman, dazzler, cloak and dagger etc) continues, there's always hope. Anyone know if Bendis is a fan of Canada? :p

D.

[Phil]

Going on conversations with Scott, Centy fell into a coma somehow, and gained his powers whilst in his coma, so the first time he used them was as Walt awakened him....

As to Vol.2 vs 3... I think I'm gonna have to go with 2 simply because it got me into collecting AF.

I prefer both volumes to some of the Vol.1 issues though.

[Julesville]

Have to disagree with ya J, Hull House was nothing more than Dept. H's mutie farm. They selected the kind of mutants they wanted, created them in a lab and raised them at Hull House. Or at least that seemed to be the direction the book was going in before it was cancelled. Besides, that's what Gamma and Beta Flight are for, finding and training Canadians who have special abilities. In a way Dept. H is more inclusive since they don't restrict membership to mutants only. (How about that, Prof. X is a closet bigot! :shock: )

You're right, they never did come out and say Puck II was a mutant, she could easily have gotten her powers mystically with her daddy's background but I thought Sasquatch came out and said that Centennial was a mutant. His powers just never manifested until Walt gave him the "ooga booga" treatment in the hospital. Maybe I'm wrong on that one but that's how I remember it.

Closet bigot?!?!? Is you crazy?!?!? Just kidding. But no, Profesor X actually wanted to get more human kids to study at Xavier's to show the world that he wasn't a pro-mutant bigot. I think it was when he invited Annie Ghazerakian's kid Carter, then he turned out to be a mutant. And the X-Men had some non-mutant members; Longshot and Juggarnaut.

Yeah, I think that was Hull House's first purpose, but remeber Gentry took over and shook everything up, HH probubly got the boot, but the kids are still there probubly, bunch of muties, it would be cool if it was a place where mutant prospects could train and use their powers, maybe...

Oh yeah, and it was "Boola Boola" I think that's an important plot point and you should get you're facts straight... jesus!!! Just kidding. Much love.

[Legerd]

Closet bigot?!?!? Is you crazy?!?!?... Oh yeah, and it was "Boola Boola" I think that's an important plot point and you should get you're facts straight... jesus!!! Just kidding. Much love.

When I was thinking about it, it suddenly struck me that Xavier's schools could seem like reverse racism if you looked at it a certain way. As for the "boola boola" error, you're quite right. I should have spent the four or five hours searching through my boxes of comics to correctly quote such a crucial plot point. I promise next time to leave no comic unread. :P

[Garry/Al-Fan]

The Hull House idea is intriquing, as is the Legacy thing. Lili (or Lilli)/Ghost Girl is an interesting character, and what Dept. H did to her is just sick IMO. Flinch doesn't do anything for me, and I wouldn't be upset if this character were never heard or seen or smelled again.

Zodiac and the Ecliptic are worthy adversaries for [V2] Alpha Flight.

How many renegade WEAPON Xs must there be before somebody on Parliment Hill starts wondering what's going on?

After re-reading the TPB, I'm not as enamored with vol. 3 as I was. The Plodex look mammalian in this series, yet they are somehow egg-layers, too (this puzzled me when I first read it). Why did the Plodex ship let Sasquatch go in the first place? Why not Earthmover? I'm beginning not to care much, anymore.

[Le Messor]

After re-reading the TPB, I'm not as enamored with vol. 3 as I was. The Plodex look mammalian in this series, yet they are somehow egg-layers, too (this puzzled me when I first read it).

You forget: I live in Australia.
Egg-laying mammals exist here. Look up the word 'monotreme' some time.
(The echidna or spiny anteater, and the duck-billed platypus, for the record.)

- Le Messor
"The platypus: Proof positive that God has a sense of humour."

[Garry/Al-Fan]

monotreme "n. any egg-laying mammal of the order of Monotremata, comprising only the duckbill and echidnas of Australia and New Guinea." --- from Random House Webster's College Dictionary, 2000

Okay, so the V3 Plodex (excuse me, the Platypuses/Echidnas/Monotremes) who look humanoid can mass-produce eggs like crazy. Makes about as much sense as anything else that's happened to Alpha Flight, who'd better learn how to fight really well if they make it to Platypus-world.

[Carlson]

man each time marvel went through another one of it's re structuring bankruptsies, it ment they would have to sell some of their properties to other buyers, in order to be finantually in the black. why do you think 20th century fox put soo much money into x men, cause they owned the majority shares in the movie option, so they got the profits. same with spider man, marvel may still own the name, but not the profits from the movie. the few titles they do still own, they usually make very bad movies of, like punisher, both of them, hulk, yes the hulk movie sucked, little to no plot, non senseable plot jumps and , well it was just caca. Blade was good, the second one even better, but the third, man that disipointed me. marvel still owens all rights to the fantastic four, and i liked that movie, but you can only watch it once, it's not the kind of movie to watch again. so where's the next good flick?
don't tell me their will be a captain america movie, where he must rescue mr bush from some terrorists, oh wait, they did to a capt movie, and man did that one blow. um, i forgot why i started writing, got off on a rant their, got a deadline to make, i'll try not to be a stranger.

[Mokole]

hi ho Carlson;

I think they are making another Captain America movie, but I think it may turn out as dorky as the last one. The character isn't made for anything but comics.

As to v.3 vs v.2 I'm still a bit on the fence after pondering, I liked what I liked before, Lobdell's characters, Henry's art, Seagle's writing, Lobdell's plots, Seagle's details,....

[Julesville]

Yay! I think a Captain America move would be great! If they do it right. It's gotta be a WW2 movie where he beats up Nazis, and it needs to be a complex introspective about duty, honor, compassion, and the right thing to do.

They should give it to a really spacey director who will use all these complex camera angles and cell shading graphics, and it should be full of hardcore orchestra music with the deep horns and crazy violins, ya know. Something epic and inspiring, and patriotic in the grand sence, not to America but to good and the decency of humanity.

Maybe they can even put in the Invaders, the first Human Torch and Namor, maybe even Major Mapleleaf, at least figurativly.

I would see it, it sounds like a super block buster, and it could work. Hell, they're gonna make a Power Man/Luke Cage movie with Jamie Foxx.

P.S. Concering Power Man, forget Jamie Foxx, get that one dude from Barber Shop with the blue eyes, and make it about inspiring the strength in people. It'll be good then.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Where were the Epsilon-Blacks when the Epsilon-Reds were getting their butts kicked by Zodiac?

I agree with Carlson about the Blade movies; they should've stopped with the second one.

[BitBiteOuch]

Back to the question at hand, V3. I never liked the art in V2, and I didn't like the new characters at all. V1 of course rules all in the end, but I never really enjoyed V2 as much as I'd hoped I would

[DelBubs]

If it came to a push between vol 2 and vol 3 I wwould be in a bit of a quansrary, cos I dislike them both equally. No characterisation apart from the newbies, kinda like the writers didn't really want to explore the originals who had made Alpha so good in the first place. Volume 2 did get a little better towards the end while three was only barely interesting for the last arc, so on that alone I would have to give it to volume 2. Although it does pain me having to put volume 2 above anything :-)