Should snowbird actually be white?

[Big Boss]

She's a demigoddess, but IIRC her mother was some indian goddess...shouldn't she look like an indian, not a white girl? Just something I noticed.

[MistressMerr]

Well, her father was white, and he was the human in the match-up.

[Barnacle13]

You can argue this on e both ways, but I think she'd be a lot more interesting if she shared more of the Inuit traits. Ed Northcott had a beautiful rendition of her in a more Indian appearance as well as her altered chararterization. If he ever resurfaces you should ask him his thoughts.

[birdygirl]

I tend to agree with Mistress Mer, that Snowbird is white because her birth father was.

It's interesting to speculate about this matter. When Snowbird was first introduced 25+ years ago, no one thought twice about her being white. However, if the character were introduced today, then she more than likely would have an Inuit heritage.

If there should be an Alpha Flight, volume 4, I wonder if they might introduce a Snowbird II with an Inuit background? Given AF writers' penchants for introducing "all-new" teams whenever a new AF book is published, this might be worth thinking about.

[rplass]

I believe this was already done: in the X-Men Millennial Visions 2001 issue, the character Redbird was introduced, who was Shaman and Snowbird's daughter. There was also Nanook, who was the daughter of an ordinary Eskimo and a Northern Goddess. Either one of them would probably look Inuitty.

See a picture of them at: http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/alpha.htm#XMMV20012

Love,
rplass

[cmdrkoenig67]

Something about that just creeps me out, though...I mean Shaman and Snowbird having a daughter. He DID raise her as if he was her father...shudder. :shock:

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

...There was also Nanook, who was the daughter of an ordinary Eskimo and a Northern Goddess........

*cringe!* Why oh WHY, in this day and age of political correctness do we STILL allow this one to slip by!! Why oh why!!! Does no one understand how bloody derrogatory it is?!?! It ranks up there with 'n****r', 'c***k' and 'f***e-p*****r'!!! Please, if there is a God somewhere in that cold wilderness of the heavens, teach these bloody heathenistic bastards the TRUTH!!

[HappyCanuck]

Something about that just creeps me out, though...I mean Shaman and Snowbird having a daughter. He DID raise her as if he was her father...shudder. :shock:

Dana

.... and am I the ONLY one who sees what's wrong with 'Goldensnow'?? Haven't we all (at least, the ones of us who've SEEN snow :P) been warned AWAY from 'golden' snow?? Sounds like a diabolical villain to me....

[cmdrkoenig67]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! I wouldn't try eating it either.

Dana :lol: :lol: :lol:

[syvalois]

...There was also Nanook, who was the daughter of an ordinary Eskimo and a Northern Goddess........

*cringe!* Why oh WHY, in this day and age of political correctness do we STILL allow this one to slip by!! Why oh why!!! Does no one understand how bloody derrogatory it is?!?! It ranks up there with 'n****r', 'c***k' and 'f***e-p*****r'!!! Please, if there is a God somewhere in that cold wilderness of the heavens, teach these bloody heathenistic bastards the TRUTH!!


You mean Eskimo is a very bad word to say and the right one is Inuit? Yes I know. Wonder why it's still used. But I liked your reaction. :twisted: Feel like me when Jeanne-Marie is called Jean-Marie :)

[rplass]

Hey! I was just quoting the text from the comic book. I didn't pick the word. But now that you mention it, I think I will update the entry on my website to modernize the usage and remove the inappropriate word.

Love,
rplass

[HappyCanuck]

Hey! I was just quoting the text from the comic book. I didn't pick the word. But now that you mention it, I think I will update the entry on my website to modernize the usage and remove the inappropriate word.

Love,
rplass

Thank you!

[Garry/Al-Fan]

"In her secret identity, Snowbird is Royal Canadian Mounted Police Officer Anne McKenzie, but Anne is no more her true form than the polar bear is. In fact, not even what we see as Snowbird is her real form. John Byrne says that we will probably never see her true form."

- excerpt from "Now Boarding on ALPHA FLIGHT" by Peter Sanderson in AMAZING HEROES# 22, pages 32 and 35.

[Ben]

"In her secret identity, Snowbird is Royal Canadian Mounted Police Officer Anne McKenzie, but Anne is no more her true form than the polar bear is. In fact, not even what we see as Snowbird is her real form. John Byrne says that we will probably never see her true form."


Her "True Fires" as she called them.

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

My thoughts:
Narya was created from a union of a white mortal human being and a "goddess", who doesn't really seem to have a physical form(these "Gods of the north" always seemed rather ethereal to me). Maybe on some genetic level she adapted a look close to her father's(blonde hair) when Shaman bound her into a human form and to Canada, because that was the only genetic material in her? Do Nelvana, Hodiak and Turoq have genetic material? Maybe that's exactly why they needed a human to make their champion?

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Perhaps. Sounds logical. Shaman had a big hand in stabilizing Narya into a human-looking baby. Later, he and James may have determined that "a blonde-haired" Narya would fit in better, given that her eyes are unusual. However, The Old Gods could have chosen someone else, if ethnicity were their main concern, couldn't they?

I'm just saying that Narya has been presented as a transmorph/shape-changing demi-goddess. Easton is a part of who she is, no question about it, and his heridity would show up in her. As she gets older and more experienced or circumstances dictate, Narya may decide to change her appearance to something else. I believe she's capable of doing that,
if she chooses to.

[Le Messor]

The Old Gods could have chosen someone else, if ethnicity were their main concern, couldn't they?

Could they? Eastman found the crown thing. Did they have a hand in it, or did it just happen that way? There's no evidence on either side.

And, he was a weak-minded fool. Perfect for what they wanted. Maybe that's why they chose him, or maybe that's just a lucky coincidence? Could they have found a native weak-minded fool working on an archaeological dig?

- Le Messor
"Dishonor will not trouble me once I am dead."

[Barnacle13]

My thoughts:
Narya was created from a union of a white mortal human being and a "goddess", who doesn't really seem to have a physical form(these "Gods of the north" always seemed rather ethereal to me). Maybe on some genetic level she adapted a look close to father's(blonde hair) when Shaman bound her into a human form and to Canada, because that was the only genetic material in her? Do Nelvana, Hodiak and Turoq have genetic material? Maybe that's exactly why they needed a human to make their champion?

Dana

I just figure if the Greek gods can spread their seed around (and boy did they ever) then the Inuit pantheon should be able to as well. Hercules, Perseus, etc. all came from a union of the gods with humans. They obviously passed on someting of themselves or Hercules would have just been a stable boy who cleaned stalls for every stinking day of his life with a shovel and pail, instead of moving a river to clean the stalls. There are many examples of the gods mating with humans or other creatures throughout mythology.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...Eastman found the crown thing. Did they have a hand in it, or did it just happen that way? There's no evidence on either side. And, he was a weak-minded fool. Perfect for what they wanted. Maybe that's why they chose him, or maybe that's just a lucky coincidence? Could they have found a native weak-minded fool working on an archaeological dig?

- Le Messor

The Old Gods could have simply rejected Easton as unsuitable, if they didn't deem him worthy enough. IMO Easton was not such a "weak-minded fool," but a man driven mad once the full consequence of The Old Gods' plan became evident. Easton heard the call of the headband, none of the others did. This does not make him weak-minded, he had to have a "union" with somebody non-ethereal in order for Nelvanna to conceive Narya, and how many people could've just taken 9 years gone in stride? I don't understand what you're getting at here.

[Legerd]

The Old Gods could have simply rejected Eastman as unsuitable, if they didn't deem him worthy enough. IMO Eastman was not such a "weak-minded fool," but a man driven mad once the full consequence of The Old Gods' plan became evident. Eastman heard the call of the headband, none of the others did. This does not make him weak-minded, he had to have a "union" with somebody non-ethereal in order for Nelvanna to conceive Narya, and how many people could've just taken 9 years gone in stride? I don't understand what you're getting at here.

Eastman was called weak-minded by Shaman in Vol. 1 #1 since he was easily manipulated into freeing Tundra and his mind was quickly consumed by the Beast allowing it entry into our dimension.
I think his finding the circlet was a random event, that anyone on the dig (well, the males at least) could have been Narya's father.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Even so, it was after The Old Gods had whisked him away for 9 years, though Easton assumed it was one night. No one else from the dig heard the call of the headband, which had an ironic dual purpose: helping both The Old Gods and The Great Beasts.

The Old Gods have been unforgiving when it comes to Snowbird carrying out their mission, questioning her ability to fulfill her duty (AFV1# 23). If Easton was not suitable or worthy, The Old Gods would not have bothered with him, and would have waited until a more suitable person heard the call of the headband.

The Old Gods seemed pressed for time ["Yet, our time is so short, Hodiak. How can our end be gained...?" --- Nelvanna's word ballon from AFV1# 7, page 18] that they probably didn't have time to pick and choose who the father would be.

I still don't understand what you are getting at here. Do you all want to change Snowbird's ethnicity? Why?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Even so (don't dispute that Shaman called him weak-minded; that's his opinion and he's entitled to it), it was after The Old Gods has whisked him away for 9 years, though Eastman assumed it was one night. No one else from the dig heard the call of the headband, which had an ironic dual purpose: helping both The Old Gods and The Great Beasts.

I still don't understand what you are getting at here.

Wait a min.....Didn't the old gods call Richard Eastman weak-minded too, somewhere there?

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Wait a min.....Didn't the old gods call Richard Eastman weak-minded too, somewhere there?

Dana

Post it. Scan it. Do whatever you need to.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: found it...Issue 7 of Vol. 1, the Snowbird origin back-up story:

Spoilers follow.....
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Page 18: The old gods appear to Richard Eastman and ask him to grant them a boon(do them a favor)...He is appalled at the thought of giving his "seed" to Nelvanna, the Shaper makes her appear as a beautiful, blond woman, so he'll comply. Nelvanna herself says..." Or grant the wildest fantasy of a small mind..."

Page 20: Later, Eastman has returned to Earth(a bit insane) and says..."They told me...warned me. Nelvanna and Hodiak. They said the Beasts were weakening the barriers, that small-minded men would serve as their agents." (unfortunatley, the gods were referring to Eastman himself, it seems...as he later uses the very Tundra headband he is wearing to raise Tundra in issue 1)

Which brings up some very interesting questions....Were the old gods referring to Eastman when they said "small-minded men would serve as agents of the Beasts"? Did they know that he would raise Tundra? Did they plan the whole chain of events(Eastman finding the headband, being Narya's father and him being the one to raise Tundra)?

Re-reading Snowbird's origin just reminds me of my old theory of the old gods. I really don't believe they give a flying fig about Humanity...they are simply at war with the Great Beasts and will do anything, use anyone to accomplish their goal of defeating and/or destroying their enemies. They used Eastman, just as Snowbird is being used...they're both tools to be used by the old gods in their endeavors.

Dana

[Legerd]

Which brings up some very interesting questions....Were the old gods referring to Eastman when they said "small-minded men would serve as agents of the Beasts"? Did they know that he would raise Tundra? Did they plan the whole chain of events(Eastman finding the headband, being Narya's father and him being the one to raise Tundra)?

Dana

It could be that the future is set and, although they can see what's to come, the gods can't alter it. All they can do is play their part in bringing about the destined events. How's that for makin' ya think?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Good point....perhaps they know what's coming.

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

"The Beast speaks true! The spirit of the mortal who must have started this is gone! What a tiny, shrivelled thing it must have been, so soon to have relinquished control.
"Tundra alone remains."

--- Shaman's thought balloons from AFV1# 1, page 28
[Accurate assessment, even though Shaman doesn't seem to know
that the same person who fathered Snowbird is responsible for
raising Tundra]

"Look past my mortal guise, Kolomaq. Look upon my true fires, and see now who it is you face."
--- Snowbird's word balloon from AFV1# 6, page 8
[her real self doesn't look very human (let alone "White", "Inuit",
or whatever ethnicity human beings could be classified as)]

In light of what has been presented, how does all of this warrant such an irrelevant topic?

[Julesville]

She wasn't all that caucasian looking. I mean, her eyes were all weird.

Besides, gods can do whatever they want, and she was designed to fit in right, who fits in better then white folk?

[Garry/Al-Fan]

For a thread that is so obsessed with Snowbird's lineage, it would be more accurate to acknowledge her human father and refer to her as a "demi-goddess," because she's not a full-fledged "god" like Nelvanna, Hodiak, and Turoq. In order to protect Earth from The Great Beasts, The Old Gods had to have someone who could pierce the Great Barrier, which The Old Gods themselves could not do. If The Old Gods really didn't care about humanity, they didn't need to bother trying to send a champion at all. There were plenty of super-powered people and teams who could've defended the earthly realm: Doctor Strange, The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Defenders, etc.

[kozzi24]

...There was also Nanook, who was the daughter of an ordinary Eskimo and a Northern Goddess........

*cringe!* Why oh WHY, in this day and age of political correctness do we STILL allow this one to slip by!! Why oh why!!! Does no one understand how bloody derrogatory it is?!?! It ranks up there with 'n****r', 'c***k' and 'f***e-p*****r'!!! Please, if there is a God somewhere in that cold wilderness of the heavens, teach these bloody heathenistic bastards the TRUTH!!

Yet in the tirade, Allan, YOU did not teach what word should be used! Someone else filled it in.

[syvalois]

Yet in the tirade, Allan, YOU did not teach what word should be used! Someone else filled it in.

Because it been said a lot of times in this forum over the years and many knows about it. It was just funny that way. Anyway, If I did not said it Allan would have done it sooner than later.

[HappyCanuck]

Yet in the tirade, Allan, YOU did not teach what word should be used! Someone else filled it in.

Because it been said a lot of times in this forum over the years and many knows about it. It was just funny that way. Anyway, If I did not said it Allan would have done it sooner than later.

Like right now. Sorry for being so quiet lately, but my puter went kablooey, so my online time is going to be a mighty bit restricted until I can get it fixed/eplaced.

Anyhoo, Sylvie's correct: over the last year and a half of the forum's existence - as well as the previous six years of being involved with Alpha Waves -, I've always fought for the defamation of the derrogatory word 'Eskimo', and the rise in the correct term 'Inuit'. Sorry kozz, you've been napping again.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Well....it continues, Allan.

An article in Notion(a british music mag)that my partner buys, introduced a new dance music group called "Eskimo Disco"...Ick.

A (teeth-gnashing)article quote on how they came up with their name...

The band's unsual name came about as Liam and Scott were travelling around Greenland, looking for a party-as you do. They eventually found an outdoor disco, where people looking like Eskimos were dancing around. Liam says, "We had such a wicked time partying with these people that we thought it would be wicked to come back and play live music some time. That's our ultimate ambition: to play as Eskimo Disco at an Eskimo disco.

I suddenly feel ill.

Dana