How do you think House of M will affect Alpha Flight....

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm not sure if this should be posted here, but it does concern AF...hey...I took a chance.

Spoilers....
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So Joke Quesada has stated that the mutants of the Marvel Universe will be numbered at about 198(what a moronic and stupidly small number)...The other mutants that don't fit into that number will lose their powers...becoming normal humans(Jubilee and Chamber are two that have been named as possible de-powerees).

I certainly understand and applaud the need for a bit of pruning, but 198?
I imagine some of Alpha's mutants WILL lose their powers too(I doubt they matter that much to Marvel, in the grand X-Universe scheme)...Aurora? Northstar? Diamond Lil? Madison Jeffries? Flashback? Who else could be a target of the mutie-pruning.

If Marvel thinks there should be less mutants in their books....Maybe they should just cut back Wolverine's appearances in every Marvel book ...sheesh(and yes, D...here I am b****ing quite a bit :D ).

To me(IMHO)....A much more believable number would be approximately a million mutants WORLDWIDE....but one hundred and ninety eight mutants and that's it? Overkill, much?

Dana

[suzene]

I have to agree, 198 seems insanely small...and really, considering that there are at least three new X-books coming out in the wake of HoM, it just doesn't feel like much is being pruned back. Not only that, but despite all the hype that this event is going to change the face of the Marvel Universe forever OMG!, there's a pretty danged obvious escape hatch in just depowering mutants instead of outright killing them.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I'd say the majority of second-wave Alpha Flight is toast. Thanks to Christina, Weir, and Tieri -- fine, fine, and Austen too, but it's a grudging thanks -- Northstar and Aurora have gotten a decent amount of panel time in recent years, so there's a chance they might be considered popular enough to be spared the axe. At the same time, though, there's an equal chance that our resident speedsters might be considered superfluous; solits make it look like Quicksilver's still in the game and if you've only got 193 people to give mutant powers too, you'd likely want to avoid redundancy as much as possible.

Actually, a good chunk of core Alpha is pretty safe from Wanda's latest bout of mental problems -- out of Puck, Mac, Heather, Snowbird, Shaman, and Sasquatch, none qualify as mutants. (Which paves the way for another rant in and of itself on the inconsistant nature of super-human prejudice in the MU, but it's late.) Let's just hope that the writers remember that and don't get too trigger happy.

Suzene

Suzene

[Mokole]

Madison Jeffries will likely be depowered. No way will the '198' universe last long. I'd give it a year. Is that how long Heroes Reborn lasted?

It would have been smarter to have HoM end with a return to the 'mutants as minority' not evolutionary improvements. That way the lack of mutants could be explained easily as nuclear testing went down so fewer mutations. "Homo Superior" should've been left as a sparkle in Apocalypse's eye.

[Mystic]

Only 198 mutants??!! I can only see that lasting for so long, then they'll come up with something to reverse that decision. With all of the X-Titles out there, and all of the villains they're going to have to keep in order for the X-Men to have a purpose, it really doesn't leave much (if any) room open for any other title. The good thing about AF is that the team isn't comprised of mutants as a central theme.

And as far as Northstar and Aurora go, they can always lean back on the Mantlo background and say that the twins' powers are derived from their *groan* half-elf side and free up two slots that way in this lame-@$$ '198' fiasco.

I think the mutants should go back to minority status...but not THAT much of a minority.

MHO,
-Mystic

[Hyperstorm]

I believe Quesada has said that only 10% of the 16 million mutants pre-HoM will keep there powers and 10% of 16 million is far more than 198. Judging from the previews the 198 refers to mutants that the government has files on and consider threats.

[Le Messor]

Why do I think all Alpha will be safe?
I say this, not with hope, but cynicism.

You know what'll save Alpha? Nobody's heard of 'em. :roll:
I mean, the writer who put Flashback in Thunderbolts is endangering us all, but I don't think they'll bother to depower anybody else.

Apart from the Twinz, who may be -too- high profile to hit.

- Le Messor
"Do you really think third-rate military dictators would laugh at America and burn our flag in contempt, if Ronald Regan were president?"
- Roger Waters, Radio KAOS

[Mystic]

I believe Quesada has said that only 10% of the 16 million mutants pre-HoM will keep there powers and 10% of 16 million is far more than 198. Judging from the previews the 198 refers to mutants that the government has files on and consider threats.

I certanly hope that is the case. And I also certainly hope that out of these mutants, no more of them are related/cloned/fomer acne of Wolverine.

-Mystic

[cmdrkoenig67]

I believe Quesada has said that only 10% of the 16 million mutants pre-HoM will keep there powers and 10% of 16 million is far more than 198. Judging from the previews the 198 refers to mutants that the government has files on and consider threats.

That sounds much more believable, than a mere 198. I too, hope that's the case.

Dana

[MistressMerr]

There's no official number yet, the only thing that's been confirmed by the higher ups is somewhere between 200 and 300. :\

[syvalois]

I thought it was 198 per country...no? :twisted: :shock: :P 8)

[cmdrkoenig67]

Quicksilver is apparently also one of the mutants that loses his powers permanently....sigh.

The list(so far):

Jubilee
Chamber
Quicksilver

This is such an incredibly stupid idea. I'm hoping Quesada gets lots of hate mail for this stunt, maybe it will wake him the heck up.

Dana :evil:

[Phil]

Add Blob to that list too, judging from the Gen M #3 cover.

[cmdrkoenig67]

What??!! Thanks Phil...Maybe we should keep a running list of this horror somewhere?

Dana :roll:

[cmdrkoenig67]

Maybe AF's mutants will escape notice, maybe not(I hope they will anyway, especially all the originals...)

Here's a list of possible targets(I hope I didn't miss anyone)...
(This is just some fun and frightening speculation)
Question marks indicate uncertainty that the character is a mutant...

Aurora
Centennial
Diamond Lil
Feedback
Flashback
Flex?
Ghost Girl?
Goblyn
Madison Jeffries
Major Mapleleaf Jr?
Manikin
Murmur?
Northstar
Pathway
Persuasion
Puck II?
Wild Child
Wyre?

[Spyridona]

Edited because I did not see the news forum until now. :oops:

[cmdrkoenig67]

Feh...Don't worry about 'Squatch, Spy(BTW...welcome to Alpha Waves!)...I don't believe even Joke Quesada is THAT dim to think that Walter is a mutant...but then again...you never know.:shock:

Dana [-o< [-o<

[Garry/Al-Fan]

My collection is incomplete. Has Aurora been restored to her full mutanthood? When Walter changed her physiology in AFV1# 17, I thought it made her safe from mutant-detection. I always thought she had become a quasi-mutant, if there is such a thing.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I'm not 100% sure Garry, but I think that undetectability has since worn off(and her powers have altered several times since then), she was found and kidnapped by the Weapon X program and they mutated her further, giving her the ability to speed up other's metabolisms.....or something like that(It was never very clear what her new abilities actually did).

Dana

[Spyridona]

Koenig; Thank you for the welcome! :D

It's not so much Quesada I'm worried about but rather writers and minor editors who flub all the time as well as some fans.

[Adam]

I think there's been a lot of "sky is falling" talk about this, so I'll wait and see what happens before I comment. Even the number of mutants left over is suspect at this point so it's not worth getting worked up about.

I think it could open up some stories though. For example, while Quicksilver's losing his powers they're making a mini-series out of it. It's not just "let's sweep him under the rug to get rid of him." When's the last time Quicksilver, powered or no, has been this high profile?

I really think this will depend on how the writers handle it, and I doubt they're going to spell out all the remaining mutants to the readers right away anyways. That list is likely internal to Marvel and will be revealed slowly as story allows.

Also, since they're just being depowered and not killed the door's never closed. Think about it... "the depowered and distraught Madison Jefferies makes a deal with Somon the Artificer to regain his abilities, but at what cost!" Etc etc etc.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Koenig; Thank you for the welcome! :D

It's not so much Quesada I'm worried about but rather writers and minor editors who flub all the time as well as some fans.

I wouldn't be worried about fans, Spy...they really have very little say in what happens to characters.

Dana

[maniac mike]

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

:twisted:

DEPOWERED
Angel
Beak
Blob
Chamber
Iceman
Jubilee
Magneto
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Stacy X
Tag
Wind Dancer

POWERED
Beast
Bishop
Bohusk, Tito
Cable
Cannonball
Colossus
Cyclops
Dazzler
Dust
Elixir
Empath
Erg
Firestar
Forge
Frost, Emma
Hellion
Jazz
Justice
Lorelei
M
Magma
Mammomax
Marvel Girl
Meltdown
Mercury
Mr. M
Multiple Man
Nightcrawler
Nocturne
Outlaw
Pryde, Kitty
Rockslide
Sage
Siryn
Strong Guy
Surge
Toad
Warpath
Wisdom, Peter
Wolfsbane
Wolverine
X-23

UNCONFIRMED/UNKNOWN
Archangel
Aurora
Big Bertha
Bruiser
Callisto
Cloak
Dagger
Domino
Doorman
Flatman
Gambit
Havok
Husk
Icarus
Karma
Marrow
Mirage
Mister Immortal
Mystique
Northstar
Polaris
Prodigy
Professor X
Psylocke
Richards, Franklin
Rictor
Rogue
Silver Samurai
Squirrel Girl
Stepford Cuckoos
Storm
Sunfire
Sunspot
Wallflower
Wither

This list was compiled by the staff at www.x-mencomics.com/xfan/

MM :-s

[DarkSnowbird]

What about Wicked?

[cmdrkoenig67]

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

:twisted:

DEPOWERED
Angel
Beak
Blob
Chamber
Iceman
Jubilee
Magneto
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Stacy X
Tag
Wind Dancer

POWERED
Beast
Bishop
Bohusk, Tito
Cable
Cannonball
Colossus
Cyclops
Dazzler
Dust
Elixir
Empath
Erg
Firestar
Forge
Frost, Emma
Hellion
Jazz
Justice
Lorelei
M
Magma
Mammomax
Marvel Girl
Meltdown
Mercury
Mr. M
Multiple Man
Nightcrawler
Nocturne
Outlaw
Pryde, Kitty
Rockslide
Sage
Siryn
Strong Guy
Surge
Toad
Warpath
Wisdom, Peter
Wolfsbane
Wolverine
X-23

UNCONFIRMED/UNKNOWN
Archangel
Aurora
Big Bertha
Bruiser
Callisto
Cloak
Dagger
Domino
Doorman
Flatman
Gambit
Havok
Husk
Icarus
Karma
Marrow
Mirage
Mister Immortal
Mystique
Northstar
Polaris
Prodigy
Professor X
Psylocke
Richards, Franklin
Rictor
Rogue
Silver Samurai
Squirrel Girl
Stepford Cuckoos
Storm
Sunfire
Sunspot
Wallflower
Wither

This list was compiled by the staff at www.x-mencomics.com/xfan/

MM :-s

Hmmmmm....There are quite a few mutants left off those lists(Banshee, Sabra, Topaz, etc...)...

So Blob, Iceman, Magneto, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver lose their powers(characters who've been around for about 40 years), but Mammomax(who's name sounds like it means "big breasts"), Tito Bohusk(whoever the heck that is???) and possible Squirrel Girl get to keep theirs? Quesada(and Claremont) is such a....I'm not going to say it. I'm going to be nice and say nothing. :x :x

Dana :roll:

P.S. It's odd that Wanda de-powered all of the surviving original Brotherhood of Evil Mutants members, but not Toad. I wonder why she left him powered?

[Ben]

well the whole thing was left very open ended really. I would be supprized to see this all last more than a year. They'll get a few decent "learning to live without thier powers" stories, and it will all be restored is my guess.

Ben

[DarkSnowbird]

well the whole thing was left very open ended really. I would be supprized to see this all last more than a year. They'll get a few decent "learning to live without thier powers" stories, and it will all be restored is my guess.

Ben

I totally agree with that.

[HappyCanuck]

Wait, wait, wait: help me on this one.... how is it that Angel is in the depowered list, yet Archangel (who's been going by Angel again recently - last I heard anyhow) is still powered. Unless there's another Angel that I'm not thinking of, that would be conflicting story...

Also, the only 'Erg' from this list that I know is the old Morlock, but he's dead! been dead since the 'Fall of the Mutants' storyline waaaaaay back in the mid 80's.


I'm confused (more than usual)...

[Mokole]

Angel is Angel Salvadore or something like that, Beak's girlfriend.

So what about Windshear, Box, Feedback, Diamond Lil. etc?

[HappyCanuck]

Angel is Angel Salvadore or something like that, Beak's girlfriend.

Oh right, the fairy-winged one from Morrison's run (God, I dispised his run. given the option of him or Austin, I'll take Austin)


So what about Windshear, Box, Feedback, Diamond Lil. etc?

Box and Diamond Lil MIGHT survive, since they are still being use, but it's iffy. Feedback and Windshear haven't been around in, great Jiminy, about a decade, so I don't think too many ppl would be sorely missing them (unless, naturally, they are on this board). At the moment, I'd think Feedback would have more recognition than those two, and he's had a nearly twenty year hiatus between appearances!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Angel is Angel Salvadore or something like that, Beak's girlfriend.

Oh right, the fairy-winged one from Morrison's run (God, I dispised his run. given the option of him or Austin, I'll take Austin)


So what about Windshear, Box, Feedback, Diamond Lil. etc?

Box and Diamond Lil MIGHT survive, since they are still being use, but it's iffy. Feedback and Windshear haven't been around in, great Jiminy, about a decade, so I don't think too many ppl would be sorely missing them (unless, naturally, they are on this board). At the moment, I'd think Feedback would have more recognition than those two, and he's had a nearly twenty year hiatus between appearances!

Windshear appeared(although he was retired from Super-heroing) in Thunderbolts pretty recently, didn't he?

Dana

[DelBubs]

Windshear appeared in Thunderbolts #43 (http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/alphat.htm#THU43)

Any theory on how "hard air" sculptures are actually feasible would be appreciated?

[Canucklehead]

I'm slightly worried. I saw they included Sassy as apart of the defense forces, I think, in House of M #6. He's NOT a mutant and even if the body he's in isn't 'his', the person he inherited from wasn't a mutant as well. :?

Maybe he's pulling a Spidey and making people believe he is a mutant to escape prejudice.... Or maybe Brian Micheal Bendis is just a tad ignorant when it comes to AF members. Wait, Bendis ignorant? ....Naw! :wink:

[DMK]

Windshear appeared in Thunderbolts #43 (http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/alphat.htm#THU43)

Any theory on how "hard air" sculptures are actually feasible would be appreciated?

C'mon Del... it's Fabien Nicieza, who absolutely loves to play the game "if I take this character's powers to the logical extreme, what could they do?"

So with Windshear, it's easy. Go from "creating hard air" to "creating hard air in specific shapes".

From there move on to "creating permanent hard air objects" and you're done.

(The fact that Colin apparently worked out a lighting scheme that renders the objects visible doesn't hurt. :-)

[DelBubs]

Windshear appeared in Thunderbolts #43 (http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/alphat.htm#THU43)

Any theory on how "hard air" sculptures are actually feasible would be appreciated?

C'mon Del... it's Fabien Nicieza, who absolutely loves to play the game "if I take this character's powers to the logical extreme, what could they do?"

So with Windshear, it's easy. Go from "creating hard air" to "creating hard air in specific shapes".

From there move on to "creating permanent hard air objects" and you're done.

(The fact that Colin apparently worked out a lighting scheme that renders the objects visible doesn't hurt. :-)Hiya Dwayne, so reading between the lines, suspend believe :-) Gotcha ;-) A definition of 'hard air' would help as well, I guess :?:

[Barnacle13]

A definition of 'hard air' would help as well, I guess :?:

I think that's the same stuff in one of those male prosthetic pump thingies. How you make a sculpture out of it though is beyond me.

[Spyridona]

*sigh* I need to stop getting into new fandoms, because something like this happens.

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showcomic.htm?id=3464&format=comic

:( Apparently, House of M will screw around with Alpha Flight.

[kozzi24]

Cloak and Dagger are not true mutants, due to the drug that activated their powers, and they are still powered as of current issues of Runaways.

Icarus, that Archangel rip off that he is, still had powers.
Dani Moonstar has lost her powers.

White Queen still has hers.

Is the loss of some of Alpha's superflous minor members a big deal? It would actually help clarify the waters if Persuasion, Diamond Lil, Feedback, Goblyn, WildChild, Manikin, and all the V2/V3 mutants were depowered? I say keep Pathway, because her teleportation powers could be useful to the team.

Rogue had too much put into her recently for her to lose her powers.
Madison Jeffries seems to be the root of the sentinels now, so he will probably stay powered.

When/what issue did Pete Wisdom get resurrected from his death in X-Force? More importantly, why?

[DelBubs]

Kozzi, it was decided a while back that Cloak & Dagger were latent mutants and that's why they survived the drug experimentation while others died. New Warriors fans (myself amongst them) laughed at the first hint of this, but it is now written into Marvel lore. This has of course led to less dilligent writers explaining their powers as mutations with no mention of Mantlo's origins of the pair.

[HappyCanuck]

Is the loss of some of Alpha's superflous minor members a big deal? It would actually help clarify the waters if Persuasion, Diamond Lil, Feedback, Goblyn, WildChild, Manikin, and all the V2/V3 mutants were depowered? I say keep Pathway, because her teleportation powers could be useful to the team.

While I agree with SOME of what you said, I can think of a FEW of these former members who should be spared - and brought into the spotlight again.




Right now, Rogue has more powers than most people have socks, so what if she's missing a few?

[quote]When/what issue did Pete Wisdom get resurrected from his death in X-Force? More importantly, why?

Actually, Pete didn't die, he faked his death - tho I don't know why, except that it had something to do with X-Force. What I wanna know is when the hell he got his eye back!

[cmdrkoenig67]

Kozzi, it was decided a while back that Cloak & Dagger were latent mutants and that's why they survived the drug experimentation while others died. New Warriors fans (myself amongst them) laughed at the first hint of this, but it is now written into Marvel lore. This has of course led to less dilligent writers explaining their powers as mutations with no mention of Mantlo's origins of the pair.

Wha...huh? Cloak and Dagger were latent mutants back when they had their own series...long before the New Warriors came along.

Dana

[kozzi24]

I remember Cloak & Dagger's origin and totally agree with your point, Del. LATENT mutants who got their power BECAUSE OF the drug...thus not actually mutants per se...they were in their late teens when they got their powers. Would they have gained powers without the drug?

By expansion, why do others die by cosmic or gamma rays when the FF and Bruce Banner gained powers...latent mutancy, a dormant X-Factor in their genes.

To put an Alpha spin on that thought, why was Heather NOT transformed or powered by the terrigen mists? She has NO latent mutancy in her genes.

Allan, my point with Rogue is just that she seems to be a very active character in Marvel's stable, considering her recent acquisition of Sunfire's powers, thus it's no shock that her powers survived M-Day. Iceman seems to be the token original/core X-Man who lost his powers. Realistically, no one's done anything with him since Lobdell did ten or more years ago. I would not, however, be surprised if Storm returns depowered...people love to retell stories rather than coming up with new ones.

[Spyridona]

Actually, Pete didn't die, he faked his death - tho I don't know why, except that it had something to do with X-Force. What I wanna know is when the hell he got his eye back!

Warren Ellis, who created Wisdom, was ticked they said that Pete lost an eye during the Reagan adminstration (I think on that one) when Pete had both eyes in Excal. So, Ellis retconned Pete's 'missing' eye when he began to write for X-Force, by having Pete admit he wore the eye patch to get the chicks. Because chicks dig the eye patch.

[HappyCanuck]

Actually, Pete didn't die, he faked his death - tho I don't know why, except that it had something to do with X-Force. What I wanna know is when the hell he got his eye back!

Warren Ellis, who created Wisdom, was ticked they said that Pete lost an eye during the Reagan adminstration (I think on that one) when Pete had both eyes in Excal. So, Ellis retconned Pete's 'missing' eye when he began to write for X-Force, by having Pete admit he wore the eye patch to get the chicks. Because chicks dig the eye patch.

*GROAN!!* Yeah, that sounds like something Ellis would do...

[Spyridona]

It's why I adore Ellis, so much.

... except with his take on Ultimate Dr. Doom. But that's a different subject all together. :P

[DelBubs]

Kozzi, it was decided a while back that Cloak & Dagger were latent mutants and that's why they survived the drug experimentation while others died. New Warriors fans (myself amongst them) laughed at the first hint of this, but it is now written into Marvel lore. This has of course led to less dilligent writers explaining their powers as mutations with no mention of Mantlo's origins of the pair.

Wha...huh? Cloak and Dagger were latent mutants back when they had their own series...long before the New Warriors came along.

Dana

Wasn't to sure on the Mutant/Latent Mutant aspect of Cloak and Dagger, so asked a man who did, he came back with

When they first appeared, it was unclear just what exactly they were, although there were hints. But their first mini-series revealed their original origin: two runaways from opposite sides of the cultural tracks meet in New York City and are then kidnapped by a gang to use in experimenting a new street drug. Somehow, all the other kidnapped children die except for the two of them. They find themselves transformed with strange powers. They escape, take on the names Cloak & Dagger, and seek out revenge on the ganglord that created them.

A few years later, it was revealed that they had mutant genes which reacted to the drugs, thus giving them their powers. Whether this was the intent of Bill Mantlo, who created Cloak & Dagger, is unknown. But it does explain how all of the other kidnapped children died from the experimental drug except them.

To cash in on the mutant craze of the late 80s and early 90s, their third series was called The Mutant Misadventures of Cloak & Dagger (although, this was openly derided even by the editors in the letters page, claiming the title came from marketing). By the 14th issue, the long title was dropped in favor of what everyone was calling it anyway, simply Cloak & Dagger.

At the end of this third series, another post script was added to their origin. It turns out D'Spayre had a hand in their creation, mystically altering who got which powers. Some speculate that D'Spayre was lying and/or toying with Cloak & Dagger, and this wasn't the case. But it's never been proven wrong.

Flank has Cloak & Dagger's story down better than I, but I don't think he comes to this board. He'd correct anything I've gotten wrong, but I think that's generally right.

I'm sure that the Latent Mutant idea didn't come about until mid way through the first New Warriors series, but I could be wrong.

Corey can be found at New Warriors Forum (http://newwarriors.com/forum/index.php) and here (http://www.coreyblake.com:16080/nwcc/extras/intro.html)

[Corey]

Hey that's me!

Just to clarify, the mutant add-on happened before New Warriors. I'm not exactly sure when, but it must have happened by the time they guest-appeared in New Mutants #25, and definitely by the time The Mutant Misadventures of Cloak & Dagger hit stands, which was in 1988.

[DelBubs]

Welcome Corey and cheers. Thanks for nipping over. Just goes to show what I know. :oops:

[Corey]

No problem! Glad to help out!

[kozzi24]

But it's safe to agree that they are not just mutants in the sense that Cyclops and and Storm are mutants, with no other factor involved in their powers other than mutation?

[Corey]

I don't know, wasn't Cyclops a latent mutant until something traumatic triggered his mutant powers? Or was that someone else?

Regardless, they still fall in the homo mutatis family (or whatever it's called) and so are open to getting House of M'ed. But, I'm pretty sure they're safe what with the Runaways appearance and the planned movie.

[kozzi24]

IIRC, Cyclops suffered head trauma in the parachute drop with Alex. The only damage was to the part of his brain that controls his power, thus necessitating the visor. The development of the powers themselves is natural mutation without outside factors.

[HappyCanuck]

All mutants who haven't developped their powers (usually before they hit puberty) are 'latent'. All that means is their powers haven't surfaced yet. For example, until she tried to throw herself off the roof, Aurora was a latent mutant. When she did, her powers chose then to manifest.

In some cases, certain things can cause a mutant's powers to manifest themselves early - such as the drugs for Cloak and Dagger, or expermentations Dr. Farouk did to Havok (he was nearly 20 when his powers were first manifested), or double-effect of the cosmic rays had on Franklin Richards (His parents not being true mutants, the rays mutated them, thus he was a mutant, but the mutation went wrong, thus his powers emerged YEARS earlier).

[Corey]

Havok! That's who I was thinking of.

[HappyCanuck]

Havok! That's who I was thinking of.

:D Glad to be of service

[Corey]

Havok! That's who I was thinking of.

:D Glad to be of service

Glad to be serviced! Oh wait. That's not right.

[DelBubs]

Over at Newsarama (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=004513) they have some pages from 'X-Men The 198 Files ', tells us one thing. (http://www.comicon.com/pulse/images_05a/198xm2.jpg)

[Corey]

That's actually The Pulse, not Newsarama. But still cool to get a glimpse.

[-K-M-]

What does the side stuff mean such as severe, significant, etc.?

[Corey]

Probably their general power-level. The format of the book seems to be that we're looking at government files accessed by Valerie Cooper. So, it's probably how much of a risk to the general populace the mutant would be if they went on a murdering spree or something drastic.

That's my theory, anyway.

[-K-M-]

Probably their general power-level. The format of the book seems to be that we're looking at government files accessed by Valerie Cooper. So, it's probably how much of a risk to the general populace the mutant would be if they went on a murdering spree or something drastic.

That's my theory, anyway.

It's possible, but Avalanche is severe? Angel [High], Hmmm....

Also they didn't mention Aurora other abilities such as the flashbang, healing, etc.

[Mokole]

Yes, it refers to threat levels, not how bad they've been in the past alone. So Angel is high on the list due to his wealth and mutant activities (ie. X-Corps).

[-K-M-]

Angel is currently low-key in that regard, but they still would consider him a threat even though he is back to being a normal member of X-Men?

[HappyCanuck]

Angel is currently low-key in that regard, but they still would consider him a threat even though he is back to being a normal member of X-Men?

They would consider him dangerous because he's a mutant alone. Take a look at the entry for Lila Cheney - she's not a combatant, but her threat-level is based on if there was a war between the humans and the mutants, to see which side she'd side with and how actively.

[-K-M-]

Angel is currently low-key in that regard, but they still would consider him a threat even though he is back to being a normal member of X-Men?

They would consider him dangerous because he's a mutant alone. Take a look at the entry for Lila Cheney - she's not a combatant, but her threat-level is based on if there was a war between the humans and the mutants, to see which side she'd side with and how actively.

True enough.

[MistressMerr]

Woo! Aurora's powered! That makes three of my favourite characters confirmed as powered (Aurora, Cannonball, and Mercury) and one confirmed as de-powered (Mesmero). Not too bad. And hopefully this means Northstar isn't too far behind. *fingers crossed*

[-K-M-]

Apparently something big is suppose to happen to Northstar soon.

[MistressMerr]

Wouldn't it be cool if he was.... *upcoming X-Men spoilers*



















































The mystery fourth of Apocalypse's new set of Horsemen? I doubt it'd happen, but come on, he's already evil and everything!

[HappyCanuck]

Not so much 'evil' as much as severely pissed off about being killed... he doesn't handle something as trivial as death very well, it seems...

[Phil]

Merr may well be onto something there...

[HappyCanuck]

She may be, and that's an interesting postulation. Another option is, what with the renewed anti-mutant mentality, SHIELD may hold onto JP and recondition him to be their 'hound' so to speak, a-la-Rachael-in-the-future...

[-K-M-]

Apparently...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t380633.html

[Phil]

That's three, the forth is still open.

[-K-M-]

That's three, the forth is still open.

I don't know, I just can't see him as a horsemen. If he was one, I would make him "Death"

[kozzi24]

If we go back to the original Byrne back-ups that explored Alpha's past, J-P's activities among the Separatists in Quebec did not seem as innocent or ignorant as they were later made out to be, so a role as a horseman would not be too far out of character, especially with his brainwashed mindstate.

[-K-M-]

Sunfire is one of the new 4 horsemen [cover of X-Men #184]

[MistressMerr]

And the solits combined with current events lead me to strongly believe Polaris is another.

[HappyCanuck]

If we go back to the original Byrne back-ups that explored Alpha's past, J-P's activities among the Separatists in Quebec did not seem as innocent or ignorant as they were later made out to be, so a role as a horseman would not be too far out of character, especially with his brainwashed mindstate.

I realy had to think on this one, because for some reason, even though the notion is very quite possible, I find it hard to base the assumption that Northstar could be one of the new Horsemen based solely off that description (although his current mental instability does make him a lead candidate). Northstar may not have been the most noble in the past, but I always read it to be that, yes, he was a hard-core seperatist terrorist, but something reformed him (Byrne would have us believe Mac did it, but I don't buy that). I mean, if you want to base it off of past alone, then Banshee is as much a candidate as any, since his past was less than stellar in itself - ranked up there with Northstar. Hell, Wolverine and (from what little insight we've received on the matter) Puck have done MUCH worse than what Northstar had done in his brief terrorist career.

Now, I'm going to reiterate: yes, I DO believe Northstar would be more than fitting to be a Horseman based on his CURRENT state. But to say that it's not out of the question because of what he did in the past, that's insinuating that Jean-Paul was nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing - plotting for something like this since his inception in Department H all those years ago - something I just don't buy, based off his attitude and such.

[Phil]

The solicit to X-Men #184 inidicates that there will be three new horseman (from the possibles posted online) and one old horseman, so it looks unlikely that it'll be JP now..

[cmdrkoenig67]

I wonder if they'll keep Ahab as the fourth Horseman? If not him...who?

Dana

[Vortex]

That would be interesting if they had a Canadian Horseman...

[-K-M-]

That would be interesting if they had a Canadian Horseman...

I agree it would be interesting, and welcome to the board.

[Ben]

Welcome Vortex! If you count Wolverine, there was a Canadian horseman

Ben

[Vortex]

That is true...heh...Logan's definately Canadian...cept Marvel always makes it seem like Canada is some kinda hush project...they don't localize it...I mean publisize it as much...possibly due to area...maybe Alpha Flight is more known in Canada than the USA...not sure.

[MistressMerr]

The solicit to X-Men #184 inidicates that there will be three new horseman (from the possibles posted online) and one old horseman, so it looks unlikely that it'll be JP now..

Actually, it was explicitly stated that none of the horsemen have ever been horsemen before, so JP's still got a chance.

[Defunct]

I'd say Northstar stands a more than decent chance of ending up as a horseman.

If you look at what's been revealed as well as Joe Q's hints on JP's future in the Marvel universe, I wouldn't be at all shocked.

[Vortex]

If that's the case...I wonder if they'll have more people that suddenly were taken away...Northstar being one...and Sunfire being the other...both bodies were mysteriously taken...lol.

[cmdrkoenig67]

If that's the case...I wonder if they'll have more people that suddenly were taken away...Northstar being one...and Sunfire being the other...both bodies were mysteriously taken...lol.

It wasn't so mysterious in Northstar's case....his body-snatchers were the Hand, who resurrected him and used him(as well as several other dead heroes and villains) as a superhuman assassin.

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

I just hope that, esp if Northstar does become a Horseman, he and Sunfire (both REALY good characters - ironically with AF connections) doesn't fall into the same catagory of the OTHER Horsemen.

Of the previous 9 Horsemen, only four have resurfaced (that I'm aware of):

- X-Factor 'saved' Warren after becoming the first Death
- Warren, alongside Psylocke and Jubilee (plus a couple others) saved Wolverine after he became Death #3
- After saving Wolverine, Warren helped out a mysteriously quatroplegic Abraham Kieros (War #1)
- I'm not sure who saved him (tho I think Kitty was involved), but Caliban joined X-Force, first after he became Death #2, then later rejoined after becoming Pestilence #2, again, no idea how he survived.

That still leaves Plague (Pestilence #1), Autumn Rolfson (Famine #1), Deathbird (War #2), Ahab (Famine #2), and Eric the Red (Death #4*) unaccounted for.


(* Even though this appears in an alternate mental state described by Apocalypse in X-Men Unlimited, I can't explain as to how he exists in Apocalypse's mind, since, with the exception of one case, Eric the Red was always a form worn by others to entice some sort of action. Both Cyclops and Magneto have worn the Eric the Red armour. the Real Eric the Red, iirc, was killed after the X-Men were transported to the Shi'ar homeworld in their first confrontation with D'Ken.)

[HappyCanuck]

If that's the case...I wonder if they'll have more people that suddenly were taken away...Northstar being one...and Sunfire being the other...both bodies were mysteriously taken...lol.

It wasn't so mysterious in Northstar's case....his body-snatchers were the Hand, who resurrected him and used him(as well as several other dead heroes and villains) as a superhuman assassin.

Dana

... later sent with Nick Fury's SHIELD after Wolverine 'saved' him. They still haven't explained why Nick would tell Kitty at the end of the story that his body was never recovered, and with Wolverine still gone quite loco after House of M, don't think we'll be seeing that resolved anytime too soone.

[Phil]

And after the events of Secret War Fury is now AWOL and no longer associated with S.H.I.E.L.D...

[HappyCanuck]

And after the events of Secret War Fury is now AWOL and no longer associated with S.H.I.E.L.D...

Oh goody, something ELSE to allow Northstar to drop into obscurity...

[MistressMerr]

Ugh, that Secret War was..... ugh.

Also, I haven't read it in a while, but I remember this one scene in Rogue #12 along the lines of 'Maybe he's not as dead as you think' 'The stink of death's all over this place'. Maybe Sunfire's the new Death? Just something I just thought of now.

[HappyCanuck]

Ugh, that Secret War was..... ugh.

Also, I haven't read it in a while, but I remember this one scene in Rogue #12 along the lines of 'Maybe he's not as dead as you think' 'The stink of death's all over this place'. Maybe Sunfire's the new Death? Just something I just thought of now.


Okay, I'm still lost on the whole Sunfire thing: when did he do whatever to become a candidate??

[Phil]

Lady Deathstrike cut his legs off below the knees.

[HappyCanuck]

when, why and all that?

[MistressMerr]

In was in Rogue's last solo series. There was some big thing in Japan involving Rogue's past with the Brotherhood. In the end, Sunfire wound up legless and close to death, Rogue absorbed his powers permanently, he was left for dead, and Deathstrike came by and stole his legless corpse. We don't know for what purpose.

[HappyCanuck]

In was in Rogue's last solo series. There was some big thing in Japan involving Rogue's past with the Brotherhood. In the end, Sunfire wound up legless and close to death, Rogue absorbed his powers permanently, he was left for dead, and Deathstrike came by and stole his legless corpse. We don't know for what purpose.

Well, that explains her new 'fiery' temperment in X-Men (like trying to fricacee Gambit after the debacle with Foxx/Mystique)... also explains how he becomes a Horseman...