Alpha Flight Respect Thread

[-K-M-]

Check out this thread I have been supporting at another board. Some of you may recognize the scans that were posted here. Thanks to those who did.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=371981&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Enjoy

[birdygirl]

Thanks for sending this. It's good to see that people are ready to defend Alpha Flight, and with such concrete examples. The list of AF's accomplishments could go on and on!

[-K-M-]

Thanks alot, I just wanted to show that Alpha Flight written correctly can be one of the strongest teams in the MU
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44 views and only one reply?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Thanks for the link KM. It's good to see other comic fans enjoy hearing about AF.

Dana :D

[Mokole]

I went through it all yesterday and KM, you did a great job of explaining why Alpha Flight deserves to be in circulation for years. :D

[-K-M-]

Thanks guys, I even just added more scans so go check them out.

[Spyridona]

I hate to ask here, but on the link to the forum, where on earth did you find that cute picture of Super Deformed Sassy playing "Mousetrap?" with I think Vol. 3 characters for your singnature banner? Is it from Vol 3? I uhm... I have not sought out AF3. I heard reviews. :oops:

[BirdManbot]

Super heroes can be as tough as the writer wants to make them, Scott Lobdell Had Skin from Generation X beat the X-cutioner, an his only power is extra skin!

[Ben]

I hate to ask here, but on the link to the forum, where on earth did you find that cute picture of Super Deformed Sassy playing "Mousetrap?" with I think Vol. 3 characters for your singnature banner? Is it from Vol 3? I uhm... I have not sought out AF3. I heard reviews. :oops:

That's the back page of v.3 #1

Ben

[-K-M-]

I hate to ask here, but on the link to the forum, where on earth did you find that cute picture of Super Deformed Sassy playing "Mousetrap?" with I think Vol. 3 characters for your singnature banner? Is it from Vol 3? I uhm... I have not sought out AF3. I heard reviews. :oops:

As Ben said, it's from Vol.3, Issue #1


Super heroes can be as tough as the writer wants to make them, Scott Lobdell Had Skin from Generation X beat the X-cutioner, an his only power is extra skin!

Indeed, my point is Alpha Flight has had several impressive feats over their career. Just want to draw attention to them
==========
I just added lots more to the thread

[Legerd]

I agree with the folks on that forum, good job on the thread King_Mungi.

[-K-M-]

I agree with the folks on that forum, good job on the thread King_Mungi.

Thanks alot
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added another scan, not a feat just interesting. Plus I added a link to a thread from this board.

Enjoy

[Legerd]

I forgot to tell you in my last post, I noticed you missed a couple of Snowbird's powers. She has the power to compel others to aid her in battling the Great Beasts (something she did to Northstar) and she has the ablity to see one hour (I think that's the limit) back in time. I need to check out my comics to give you accurate details, but that's what I can remember. Anyone else able to clarify?

[-K-M-]

I forgot to tell you in my last post, I noticed you missed a couple of Snowbird's powers. She has the power to compel others to aid her in battling the Great Beasts (something she did to Northstar) and she has the ablity to see one hour (I think that's the limit) back in time. I need to check out my comics to give you accurate details, but that's what I can remember. Anyone else able to clarify?

No your right, I briefly commented on them in her "abilties" section.

[Legerd]

Sorry, I obviously missed that.

*pops out eyes and gives them a cleaning*

Much better!

[varo]

alpha flights failed series kills me. i mean really kills me. this series was one of the best selling series marvel has ever put out (in it's heyday). yet every time a series is relaunched it is botched so badly that we have to wait around for someone to get it right.

marvel always subscribes to the "if it didn't work before re-launch it in a way it will"

series 2 had good potential and i loved steven seagles writing, but poor art, bad economics at the time, a creative team to busy spending their advances to put a quality book together (thanks carlson) and a series worth of waiting for the originals to return.

series 3. blech. i absolutely hate, i mean hate scott lobdell for putting that trash out and setting the team and another potential series back for years with his attempt (bad by the way) at being funny. yet again, we were all waiting around for the originals to return.

why must marvel always relaunch a series or cancel it rather than rework it? did it ever dawn on them that the creative team is horrible? how can great writers like morrison, waid, bendis etc....take series and make them great (anyone remember miracle man, animal man and some of the other more obscure titles that were awesome) and these characters did not have the popularity of alpha flight.

if only we could have got torres or another writer that respected this teamwriting for the last series i'm sure we would be talking about next issue rather than next series.

man.......what about seagle writing and clayton drawing. wow.

[sengsterooney]

I missed out on the whole Volume 3 experience and am perhaps thankful for it. Having said that, I think that Clayton Henry's art on that series was gorgeous - just based on the scans I have seen posted here and elsewhere.

Given it's current state, I doubt that AF can be reformed as the team it was. Did they ever return from space? Were the Alphans from the past eventually re-absorbed by the time-stream? I think the only place we'll ever get good AF stories is in fan-fiction.

[BirdManbot]

Does anyone else think that Alpha Flight, as well as being one of the best super hero teams team ever, is also one of the weirdest, everyone was mental, cross gendered (sasquatch being stuck in the body of a woman) or disabled. If ever a comic inspired freethinking liberalism its Alpha Flight. Any comments?

[syvalois]

Does anyone else think that Alpha Flight, as well as being one of the best super hero teams team ever, is also one of the weirdest, everyone was mental, cross gendered (sasquatch being stuck in the body of a woman) or disabled. If ever a comic inspired freethinking liberalism its Alpha Flight. Any comments?

That's what I liked about them. Why it's so hard to do an AF serie? Because the characters are so complexe and they don't fit the normal group formula. Because AF is mainly based about individual who happens to be in a group but not the other way around. Because you got to be representative or the uniqueness of AF; they are Canadians. You got to show that without been all about canadian stuff and no story. And what is canadian stuff anyway? To get it right form one side to the other is almost impossible, even Byrne messed it up with Québec, but he was close enough.

And I look around here in the forum and many fans are over 30, me included, so why not just do a mature book? My only concern would be they would go too mature, but you know AF always had mature stuff hidden for anyone to read and that is also something hard to do.

So, would I like to see another AF book? yes. Do I believe the book can be made at the moment with 3 series and the confused history? not really at the moment.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Does anyone else think that Alpha Flight, as well as being one of the best super hero teams team ever, is also one of the weirdest, everyone was mental, cross gendered (sasquatch being stuck in the body of a woman) or disabled. If ever a comic inspired freethinking liberalism its Alpha Flight. Any comments?

I like that about AF too...It wasn't like the other team books. It had it's similarities and the team is a family of sorts with Mac and Heather as parents and families/teams tend to argue, but it also stood out. Many of the members had major problems(mentally, physically and spiritually), but they continued to be heroes, regardless. Some were reluctant to be there(Mac, Northstar), which made it interesting too.

I also loved the fact that when the "father"(Mac) passed away, the "mother"(Heather) stepped in to take his place...she and Mac created the team together, she has always been there, everyone on the team knew her and it was a natural progression(which is why I don't get when fans say she doesn't belong in the team). Heather is as much a part of AF as Mac is.

The personalities of each team member play off of each other so well and so badly that it makes for an interesting read.

Dana

[-K-M-]

Updates were made to the thread, go check it out.

[shaman]

that is a great thread. I loved the scans, and I was excited when I saw those because it took me back to the early to mid eighties when I was a child barely able to read but loveing the characters. especially puck he was right around my height at the time. :D

[-K-M-]

Thank you kindly, also if anyone knows any impressive feats I havn't mentioned already by all means tell me.

[-K-M-]

Updates were added, and soon Puck additions.

Just noticed in Uncanny X-Men #422, #433 and #434 were horriblly drawn. For instance Sasquatch destroys Jugz shirt in #433 but in 434 it's back and has no dirt on it. With #422 look at Mac's helmet in the page where we see Jugz and Sas walking back together. Now that's an interesting design. Then are are many minor errors as well, but meh! Dumb arc.

[-K-M-]

Lots of updates go check it out

[Spyridona]

Mungi, do you mind if I use some of the scans at the theard to make icons with?

[-K-M-]

Mungi, do you mind if I use some of the scans at the theard to make icons with?

No go right ahead, I posted them so people could use. Can I see when your done?

Also added lots more today.

[Spyridona]

Of course, I'll start another theard to show off the links so I won't steal thunder from you. :) I've got a lot in mind and have a small batch to show off for now.

[-K-M-]

Updates made.

[-K-M-]

More updates were made. Anymore comments?

[kozzi24]

I remember the house ads Marvel did in the late 80's or so, that "Marvel" putting the character back in comics"
To me, Alpha--the originals--should have been spotlighted in those ads.
Those first 26 issues and other stories of the time highlighted what complex and visually interesting characters. Even if some of the complexities are trite in comics, Byrne always made them interesting with new twists.
Volume 2 gave us arrogant youths who could not be touched and dominated his younger brother, repetitions of existing characterizations and powers, a fake Sasquatch and a Heather and Puck too brainwashed to be the characters we knew. Volume 3, Yukon Jack (nuff said), a girl with possible but unverified relation to an existing character and msyterious powers and clothes that can't stay on, a Nemesis contradictory to prior appearances?...let's not go there. Centennial could have broken the mold with the origin of his powers, byt he became the stereotype of the eldery instead, played so we can laugh at our elders.

Marvel needs to understand that AF was a character-centric book. Alpha Flight is Northstar, Aurora, Sasquatch, Puck, Shaman, Snowbird, and Heather, not a random group of cliches who just happen to be Canadian.

[Legerd]

Great scans of Exiles with Tanaraq. I always thought that's how powerful Sasquatch was supposed to be. Tossing super powered people aside, clobbering foes with one swat of his massive fist, taking a major blast and shrugging it off. The way he's written now Aunt May with her butter knife could slice and dice him before cutting his hair a respectable length. The same goes for Shaman, he posseses all this nature magic but can never seem to do anything powerful with it. Not since the snowstorm in X-men. If you think about it, nature is the most powerful force on the planet. Shaman could create earthquakes, storms, floods, control animals, even have the very surroundings attack his enemies! But we never see that. On other forums I've read posters' comments that AF characters aren't very good, well that isn't their fault it's the poor writing the series' have had. Thanks KM for letting others not in the know see what our fav heroes can do.

[kozzi24]

On other forums I've read posters' comments that AF characters aren't very good, well that isn't their fault it's the poor writing the series' have had.
If you were a younger reader (under 35) and had only really seen the last ten years worth of appearances by Alpha, how good would you think these characters were. It is the writers' use of the charactersm not the characters themselves!

[Legerd]

If you were a younger reader (under 35) and had only really seen the last ten years worth of appearances by Alpha, how good would you think these characters were. It is the writers' use of the charactersm not the characters themselves!

True, the last few years have been particularly horrendous as far as the depiction of Alpha goes, but blaming the art for its faults and not the artist? You and I seem to be on the same page, the writers are the ones doing a bad job not the characters, however, those posters are talking as if the characters are lousy because of who they are and what team they belong to and they're not. It's the writers who have done a piss poor job of making them exciting heroes with enthralling stories that readers will give a damn about.

[Spyridona]

:mrgreen: I love Taranaq. You know what I'd like to see if it were possible? Tanaraq doing the Exorist III where the demon rewires the body to live again after he possesses it. Taranaq does the same thing to Walt's orignal body and since the body has no soul or mind to fight with, it's just pure Tanaraq.

[Legerd]

:mrgreen: I love Taranaq. You know what I'd like to see if it were possible? Tanaraq doing the Exorist III where the demon rewires the body to live again after he possesses it. Taranaq does the same thing to Walt's orignal body and since the body has no soul or mind to fight with, it's just pure Tanaraq.

Only problem is Walt's original body crumbled to dust back in the first series. Maybe the Great Beasts could ressurect it?

[Spyridona]

Only problem is Walt's original body crumbled to dust back in the first series. Maybe the Great Beasts could ressurect it?

Yup, thus "if it were possible" . :D DNA is small, the Great Beasts are Gods. They got the time. If things go to bad to worst on that NA issue, then we have a potetinal way to bring certian fuzzy characters back. :roll: Now, someone a better writer than I am better figure this one out.

[-K-M-]

So have I done AF justice with the thread? :) If not.....I'll kill you, straight up :twisted:

[kozzi24]

So have I done AF justice with the thread? :) If not.....I'll kill you, straight up :twisted:
Yup

[-K-M-]

Updates galore:
-Puck taking out Firestar [then getting taken out himself]
-Madison Jeffries making sentinel army
-Sasquatch vs. Hulk
-Snowbird reacting with the speed of thought
-Alpha Flight, Avengers and The Protectors vs. Terrorists [Part: 3/4]
-Alpha Flight w/ Wolverine vs. Mauvais Wendigo
-Aurora Bio
-Puck vs. Arcade and Raazer

[-K-M-]

Lots and lots of updates, go check it out and tell me what you think.

[shaman]

After that last comment you made on the other message board, I had a thought. A fight between Alpha Flight and Weapon X. I think it would be pretty cool to see the team go up against some of there own friends and former team mates( Jeffries and Aurora) and possibly win one of them back

[-K-M-]

After that last comment you made on the other message board, I had a thought. A fight between Alpha Flight and Weapon X. I think it would be pretty cool to see the team go up against some of there own friends and former team mates( Jeffries and Aurora) and possibly win one of them back

WHat was my last comment? and yeah it would be interesting, except the only one still left is Wild Child. Aurora and Jeffries both left.

[shaman]

the last commentmade when I read it was "Well if written correctly, Alpha Flight is one of the strongest teams in existance. Hell, I just found Guardian has way more powers that I didn't even know [those scans coming up next]"

I didn't know Jeffries and Aurora left though, too bad

[-K-M-]

the last commentmade when I read it was "Well if written correctly, Alpha Flight is one of the strongest teams in existance. Hell, I just found Guardian has way more powers that I didn't even know [those scans coming up next]"

I didn't know Jeffries and Aurora left though, too bad

Oh yeah I stand by that, they are one of the strongest teams.

Yeah they left in Weapon X #22, Aurora on her own and Jeffries went with the former Weapon X Director to build a sentinel army.

[-K-M-]

updates galore, don't know where to start

Well I found a Northstar feat of him running mach 18.7

[Powersurge]

I was just looking through UXM 108 (or was it 109?!?). Anyway, I don't know if you got this one or not, but Colossus hauls off and pounds Weapon Alpha after Wolvie is KO'd, and while he is slammed back by the force of the blow, he seems entirely unphased ... immediately rising to his feet, hefting what was left of the tree he slammed into, and telling Colossus that he was really in for it now.

Now, I attribute Weapon Alpha's ability to take a punch from Colossus, at that point in the Big C's developement, to Petey's softhearted ways. Afterall, Box II just creamed Weapon Alpha, and Box two didn't approach Colossus level of strength or durability. The main dif was that Jaxon wanted to cream W.A. in the worst way, and Big C. was a big softie, scared of his own strength.

Anyway, something I also noticed; its not a feat, but in iss.113 Heather performs a diagnosis of her suits weapon systems. It lists a good half dozen offensive weapons! Now, maybe thats no big surprise to diehard fans, but based upon the old OHOTMU and the stats given in the Classic MSH rpg, I"d thought the suit only had a force-energy blast and the ability to create an energy vortex.

[-K-M-]

How strong was Box back in the day when he attacked Mac? was he 40 tons then or 85? [I think it was the 40]

Also yeah I added the weapon system scans from 113, it's on pg.11 under the header "Guardian II/Vindicator II vs. Mauler"

Anymore feats I should look up?

[Powersurge]

I do believe tht was the "40 ton" Box.

as for additional feats, hows about Sasq's landscapig exercise at the beginning of issue 20? That rock he's using to bulldoze looks like an easy 100+ ton rock ... using Victoria's Johnson St. Bridge counter-weights as a point of reference. Each weighs 300+ tons and are roughly the same size as that rock!!!!

[-K-M-]

I do believe tht was the "40 ton" Box.

as for additional feats, hows about Sasq's landscapig exercise at the beginning of issue 20? That rock he's using to bulldoze looks like an easy 100+ ton rock ... using Victoria's Johnson St. Bridge counter-weights as a point of reference. Each weighs 300+ tons and are roughly the same size as that rock!!!!

Yeah I thought so

You talking about he makes the waterfall with the tree? yeah I added that already as well.

[-K-M-]

Lots more updates :)

[-K-M-]

Well if anyone cares, I added more entries to the respect thread.

[-K-M-]

Lots of updates made, go check them out

[varo]

why does it say your banned?

[-K-M-]

why does it say your banned?

I'm not, I put that under my own name :)

[-K-M-]

Just added badass scans of Windshear.......

Windshear
Alpha Flight #124-Wow even I underestimated Windshear, here he battles some monsters in an Infinity Crusade cross-over and this deals with his powers and his past. Great character, I hope he comes out of retirement. Uber powerful, and doesn't get respect.

Feats Shown:
-Windshear uses explosive pressure punches causing alien armor, flesh and tissue to liquify
-Windshear creates hard-air needles used as machine gun fire
-Winshear alters the gases solidfying inside a respiratory system, causing blood to become glue
-Windshear's hard air punch goes through the alien ripping him in half
-Winshear makes a hard-air battling ram crushing one alien
-Winshear makes a hard air shield to delfect the two aliens away
-Winshear first manifesting his powers, turns the insides of his school bag which just had clothes to hit like it is filled with bricks
-Windshear weighs down a pipe so the criminal can't lift it, but he holds it well
-Windshear can make the air solid, heavy or poisonious
-Windshar breaks the Goddess' hold over him.

1. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-18.jpg
2. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-19.jpg
3. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-20.jpg
4. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-21.jpg
5. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-22.jpg

[cmdrkoenig67]

That's typical for both Marvel and DC, it seems...

Create powerful, interesting characters(who just happen to be Black, Native American, Asian, Latino, Gay, etc...) and they end up not knowing what to do with the character...so...That character ends up renamed(sometimes several times...i.e. Monica Rambeau-Captain Marvel/Photon/Pulsar), depowered, maimed, retired, lost in limbo, killed, etc...

Other sad examples of this horror...

*Thunderbird I, II and III(pick one)
*Our own Windshear(shunted to limbo, brought back only to be retired, now he's apparently depowered...no respect for the character)
*White Tiger I(years in limbo, brought back to be killed off)
*Sunfire(in and out of limbo for years, he's bad then good, then bad...then his legs are cut off, he dies and now he's remade into one of Apocalypse's horsemen...the poor guy can't get a break...or be treated with respect, it seems).
*Sunpyre(Sunfire's secret sister, shoved back into limbo after her first appearance, appears again, but then brutally murdered...now she's apparently alive again...or is it somebody else?)
*Tempest of DC's 70s Doom Patrol(languishes in limbo for years, returns, but then retires, is then killed by one of his own team-mates)
*El Aguila(was getting used to living in limbo, then brought back only to be depowered)


...And don't forget...

Northstar(need I give details?)

I'm sure there's more victims...

It's pathetic that they continue to do this to great characters.

Dana :x

[-K-M-]

Lots and lots of updates made to the thread