in their final battle!

[Adam]

NEW AVENGERS #16
Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
Pencils & Cover by STEVE MCNIVEN
THE COLLECTIVE: Prologue
A very special prologue issue introduces the biggest NEW AVENGERS arc yet! After the horrifying events of House of M the planet Earth has changed beyond description... and thus the Collective is born. That’s right! Its a brand new Marvel threat for the brand new Avengers. Plus, this issue Guest Stars Alpha Flight... in their final battle!!
32 PGS./RATED A ...$2.50

----

I'm hoping this is just press release hyperbole. Still, Alpha appearing in Marvel's top book (and hopefully not being killed off) is a pretty high profile apperance

[cmdrkoenig67]

WHAT???!!!
:shock:
Dana

[varo]

just read that, was about to post.


wtf!!!

[varo]

i knew bendis had boards somewhere, i found them, and also a thread defending af.

chime in please:

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=42924

[syvalois]

i knew bendis had boards somewhere, i found them, and also a thread defending af.

chime in please:

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=42924

Interesting, but could someone correct them as t's not Nathan Jeffries but Madison Jeffries and it's not Jean-Marie, but Jeanne-Marie (As I like to remember everyone Jean-Marie is a man's name, which could be a cool name for another persona :twisted: )

I just got the attitude wait and see. And maybe Bendis will only kill the duplicates made by Lobdell mess, no?

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...Interesting, but could someone correct them as t's not Nathan Jeffries but Madison Jeffries and it's not Jean-Marie, but Jeanne-Marie (As I like to remember everyone Jean-Marie is a man's name, which could be a cool name for another persona :twisted: )

I just got the attitude wait and see. And maybe Bendis will only kill the duplicates made by Lobdell mess, no?

I like both of these ideas, even though I'm not keen on killing in general. If it helps clean things up and it's done well, okay.

[Defunct]

OH GOD NO!





This totally means I'll have to pick up a Bendis book. . . *shudder*

[varo]

don't we (and by we i mean ben or phil) have any inside sources over at marvel to kinda confirm what may be going on?


beuler?



beuler?

[-K-M-]

F Bendis, if they kill ALpha FLight I will be pissed

[DelBubs]

Kalm down, kalm down. Look, if Marvel were going to **** Alpha of completely, I doubt the announcement would be tied up in half a sentence. This team have over 25 years of history, close ties to Marvels breadwinner, have gone toe to toe with some of Marvels biggest hitters and taken part in some the 616's biggest events. Killing of a team with the limited respect Alpha would seem to have from Marvel writers and other fans would still have a bigger announcement.

Also can you imagine the uproar on the net and other media if Marvel totally got shot of their only Canadian super team?

I don't know what Marvel are going to do, I'm not sure they do a lot of the time, but I am willing to withhold trial, verdict and punishment until I know what the actual crime is.

Edited for effect

Plus you also have this (taken from Puck thread)
Alonso wanted Long to put his own unique "finger print" on a Marvel character. Long had been a fan of "Alpha Flight" in the '80s so one of the characters he was interested in was Puck. It was decided an "X-Men Unlimited" story would be the best way to gauge reaction to Long's new take on the character.

Plus Thanks MistressMerr (http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1026)

Then again, given that they are trying to streamline the MU (House of M), then killing of a superfluous team like Alpha have become wouldn't be beyond any stretch of the imagination. :-)

[maniac mike]

Hopefully it will be Scott Lobdell's AF and NOT John Byrne's. I wonder if this means something is on the horizon for AF if Bendis is using them? :(

MM

[DelBubs]

And what a final battle it will be. The legion of Alphans striding unerringly forward into the face of adversity. Mac and his many facsimmilies leading squadrons of Qwrlln singing in broken english 'We'll follow the old man where ever he wants to go'. Shaman riding an Earthmover (make of that what you will) followed by Talisman on Ritalin. The kids from Hull House being led into battle by the veterans of First Flight (sans Wolverine who is doing a book signing in forty different cities similtaneously). The Alpha dead, taking up half the battlefield. Mantlo's Alphans in unison with Simon Furmans out to prove a point, humming 'We almost made it'. Lobdells vol 3 Alphans walking alone, because no self respecting Alphan, or Alpha wannabee wants to be even remotely associated with them. Then the real Alpha, the Alpha modelled on Byrnes original conception, the one we all long for, proud and straight backed (no way was I gonna say erect) out to make a difference.

The whole ****ing lot get taken out by a kid with a weapon made from Lego and a kitchen whisk, from a recipe he saw on Blue Peter. Except for Puck, staggering forward, pissed as a parrot, running headlong into Galactus's big toe, slurring the words "I love yoush big guy" as he gets squished underfoot.

Can't Wait

[Mokole]

I don't know what to make of this. My first instinct is hopeful, but I see 4 possibilities:

1) AF fights the Collective and gets decimated, no survivors - not a chance this one is right

2) AF fights and gets clobbered, survivors join the new David (Or who is doing it??) team book. - Possible

3) AF loses to the Collective, some die, a new AF book rises from the ashes! - now that would be OK

4) AF fights the Collective, loses, disbands for the 7th time, pointless all around. - I hope not!

[rplass]

Yay! Another Alpha Flight appearance! I can't wait to add it to my website!

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

Yay! Another Alpha Flight appearance! I can't wait to add it to my website!

Love,
rplass

Did you read my pm I sent you?

[Adam]

3) AF loses to the Collective, some die, a new AF book rises from the ashes! - now that would be OK


I think that one might be ok. I find Bendis kind of frustrating because he makes grand gestures and gets around to fleshing them out so they make some sense later on. This might end up being appropriate:

5) Bendis does something that seems shockingly dumb but creates enough attention and controversy that the increased levels of interest lead to something good down the road.

[Mokole]

Maybe I'm a bit pessimistic sometimes.

Here's other possibilities:

- Lobdell AF fights, they all quit or some die, no more Lobdell AF (after all, they only signed on for a year) - not likely, but...

- 'magical' AF as seen in v3 issue 12 fight and die, space Byrne AF comes home later. - Not likely at all, too silly

- AF fights, calls it quits as Hudsons want to be safe for family; soon Puck and Sasquatch form a new group simply called Alpha Flight or the Flight. They lead a who knows who squad, old or new? - maybe, I guess.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I got too nervous when I heard about AF's "final battle" coming up in New Avengers. There seems to be a lot of love for Canada's premiere super-team, and it would be counter-productive to get rid of well-liked characters.

Without me jumping to fatalistic conclusions, I'm interested to find out exactly what's going to happen.

[Barnacle13]

I don't know what to make of this. My first instinct is hopeful, but I see 4 possibilities:

1) AF fights the Collective and gets decimated, no survivors - not a chance this one is right

2) AF fights and gets clobbered, survivors join the new David (Or who is doing it??) team book. - Possible

3) AF loses to the Collective, some die, a new AF book rises from the ashes! - now that would be OK

4) AF fights the Collective, loses, disbands for the 7th time, pointless all around. - I hope not!


There are plenty of possible outcomes here that have Alpha members alive and well. Sure there's plenty of chaff to be kulled, but this could just be the final time they apear as Alpha Flight. Perhaps Marvel finally decided if they want a title to sell it has to have a "X" in it somewhere. I for one say hold judgement until Alpha X or X Flight or Aurora's XXX Fetish Flight hits the newsstand. The last could be quite a treat! Just imagine Northstar fighting the super baddies with that gag ball firmly affixed.

[DelBubs]

I don't know what to make of this. My first instinct is hopeful, but I see 4 possibilities:

1) AF fights the Collective and gets decimated, no survivors - not a chance this one is right

2) AF fights and gets clobbered, survivors join the new David (Or who is doing it??) team book. - Possible

3) AF loses to the Collective, some die, a new AF book rises from the ashes! - now that would be OK

4) AF fights the Collective, loses, disbands for the 7th time, pointless all around. - I hope not!



There are plenty of possible outcomes here that have Alpha members alive and well. Sure there's plenty of chaff to be kulled, but this could just be the final time they apear as Alpha Flight. Perhaps Marvel finally decided if they want a title to sell it has to have a "X" in it somewhere. I for one say hold judgement until Alpha X or X Flight or Aurora's XXX Fetish Flight hits the newsstand. The last could be quite a treat! Just imagine Northstar fighting the super baddies with that gag ball firmly affixed.All hiding their secret identities by wearing Gimp Masks :-)

[Mokole]

I wondered years ago (the 80's !) if Marvel was planning to call Alpha Flight X-Flight or The Flight or New Alpha Flight or even Canada-X. Of those only X-Flight probabaly appeals to Quesada, and only New Alpha Flight is on their drawing board. :wink:

[DelBubs]

It'll be called 'X-Men Affiliates' and Alpha will get the occasional spotlight issue.

[Canucklehead]

Considering Alpha Flight is one of the only teams in the MU without the majority of it's members being Mutants, maybe Bendis saw this as potential to give Alpha the "Canadian-counterpart of the Avengers" respect? I can't see marvel wiping out a team that has such a long history with them in a prologue issue. Maybe a character or two. Usually this would make me nervous, but for some reason I have a good feeling about this. There's no such thing as "bad publicity". I can only see good coming from this appearance, especially in a non X, top 5 book. The "Final Battle" is just to rattle our cages and get people talking and curious. That's called marketing. Who knows? Maybe this "Collective" will create enough interest as a spin-off. They can serve a 5-6 issue Avengers story, then be up for grabs to give a new team book a main villain or storyline (Other then to protect Canada). Seeing how many Alpha characters are still around in todays books is encouraging. After the reaction Northstar got from his "death" might have woken up a few people at Marvel. I doubt they'd bring him back just to kill him (although I said the same thing about Ben Reilly). And hell, Bendis said New Avengers is going to have a rotating cast. Maybe they could use a big furry character. Every team needs one... don't they?

[Ottawa Renegade]

The "Final Battle" is just to rattle our cages and get people talking and curious. That's called marketing. Who knows? Maybe this "Collective" will create enough interest as a spin-off.

Right. It might just be the final battle of the group known as Alpha Flight. Perhaps they'll be going forward under a new name.

The fact that they've been around for a long time though doesn't make me any more confident. They've been disrespected an awful lot during that spell. They might just want to repackage the whole thing.

Man...I used to be a huge fan of the Squadron Supreme. I'm about to sit down and read the Supreme Power 18, Nighthawk 1 and Hyperion 1. :D If ever Alpha got that same kind of treatment from someone who sees untapped potential, I'd croak.

anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic.

[maniac mike]

On the bright side, we will get to see Steve McNiven draw Alpha Flight so thats something to look forward too! =D>

MM

[MattSD]

I'm guessing at the team disbanding...since that is easily undone(simply reform). Should be interesting no matter what...

[cmdrkoenig67]

The "Final Battle" is just to rattle our cages and get people talking and curious. That's called marketing. Who knows? Maybe this "Collective" will create enough interest as a spin-off.

Right. It might just be the final battle of the group known as Alpha Flight. Perhaps they'll be going forward under a new name.

Avengers North? Cringe/shudder/vomit/pass out!!! :shock:

Dana :P

[DelBubs]

What name could they use instead of Alpha Flight, nothing would work. I don't know whats going to happen, but the same core group with a different name...

Unless it's 'The Mapleleaf Manglers', that could work :-)

[HappyCanuck]

Unless it's 'The Mapleleaf Manglers', that could work :-)

Del don't make me hurt you...

[Legerd]

What name could they use instead of Alpha Flight, nothing would work. I don't know whats going to happen, but the same core group with a different name...

Unless it's 'The Mapleleaf Manglers', that could work :-)

I've wanted them to change the name for awhile now, to maybe something like The Northguard or The Beaver Patrol. :D

[Canucklehead]

The "Final Battle" is just to rattle our cages and get people talking and curious. That's called marketing. Who knows? Maybe this "Collective" will create enough interest as a spin-off.

Right. It might just be the final battle of the group known as Alpha Flight. Perhaps they'll be going forward under a new name.

Avengers North? Cringe/shudder/vomit/pass out!!! :shock:

Dana :P

You Gotta be Kiddin' Me! (how come I can't say that anymore without thinking of Lodbel?) Anyhoo, today I thought the exact same thing. Alpha dispands but Cap gets them to start anew as another group of Avengers. And I thought, hmm, what would they call them? Avengers North? Weird.

[Adam]

What sort of worries me is that this happens in a prologue to a story. Bendis tends to draw things out a lot, so of this was an Alpha-related arc I think the hopes of some sort of rejuvenation would be more realistic... however I really doubt he could do it in a cameo apperance in one issue. It's just not his style. He's still building the Avengers status quo and we're, what, nearly a dozen issues in?

[Canucklehead]

What sort of worries me is that this happens in a prologue to a story. Bendis tends to draw things out a lot, so of this was an Alpha-related arc I think the hopes of some sort of rejuvenation would be more realistic... however I really doubt he could do it in a cameo apperance in one issue. It's just not his style. He's still building the Avengers status quo and we're, what, nearly a dozen issues in?

Perhaps they will be defeated, but not killed, by this threat, then come save the day or help in the last issue (or 7, knowing Bendis) of the storyline? But yeah, I see what you mean. If the issue holds the final battle of Alpha, then Alpha can't possibly come save the day later. And I doubt they would change their name in a single cameo appearance.

lol Watch it be a cameo of Puck, just walking in the background, not having any relevance to the story.

[Weapon Omega]

I'm leaning more towards the "disbanding" thing. I don't want to believe that Marvel would be THAT stupid to kill off a team with such a rich history as Alpha Flight.

Could you imagine the backlash online if this was the case?

In recent years, what have we seen of our favorite Marvel team:

-Aurora/Wild Child/Madison getting brainwashed, manipulated, and even almost beaten to death in Weapon X. (not necessarily in that order)

-Northstar gaining membership in the X-Men only to be underutilized and then killed by a brainwashed Wolverine.

Needless to say it hasn't been a "banner" couple of years for our Alphans and then Marvel turns around and teases their "Final Battle", The higher-ups at Marvel should just come over to my house and give me paper cuts and pour lemon juice on it!

-Seth

[maniac mike]

I just saw a banner over at silverbulletcomics.com that showed Marvels big event next summer intitled...1985.

It will be written by Mark Millar (you can also check out the latest ish of Wizard too) so I'm kinda curious as to what roll Alpha Flight will play seeing as how in Wizard it says, [The presence of Marvel's A-listers doesn't mean more obscrue heroes won't have their roles to play.]

I guess will have to wait and watch.

MM :-#

[Spyridona]

I do not like Millar, but if someone mentions Jiggawatts, I'm so buying it. :D

I don't get wizard, what does it say?

[Ben]

I just saw a banner over at silverbulletcomics.com that showed Marvels big event next summer intitled...1985.


From Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=81296d78e4781171c1885653025d240a&threadid=49985)
Sunday saw Mark Millar make his first appearance at a UK convention this century and entertaining the crowd with an hour-long question and answer session. Millar discussed some of the process involved in getting his 1985 project made. 1985 is to be a six issue series that bucks the usual artwork associated with comic books and instead is using photo-art. This basically means that the artwork is made by photographing models in costume and then digitally altering the pictures to add backgrounds and other effects in.

Millar said he had problems getting Marvel to agree to the concept to begin with, but now over 200 models have been used and photographed in various locations over America, and for some scenes, sets were created to function as backdrops. The writer alluded the process akin to making a movie with so much effort needed to even get to the stage where the series can begin to take shape.

[Ottawa Renegade]

The "Final Battle" is just to rattle our cages and get people talking and curious. That's called marketing. Who knows? Maybe this "Collective" will create enough interest as a spin-off.

Right. It might just be the final battle of the group known as Alpha Flight. Perhaps they'll be going forward under a new name.

Avengers North? Cringe/shudder/vomit/pass out!!! :shock:

Dana :P

I've seen some people speculate that down the road we'd get Avengers Canada. :-k

[cmdrkoenig67]

Now that I think about it...Avengers North doesn't sound all that bad(I was mostly getting upset about a name-change even being done....I like them as Alpha Flight...I'd rather they keep the name they started with, even if it means they remain in limbo for all eternity...I'm serious). If Marvel thinks the name change will make Alpha sell better...they're wrong....slap a new name on a bad-written and/or drawn book and you get another cancellation.

Alpha cansell really well(and has)...it just needs a great creative team with a great hook of a premise(and great stories, of course). Why not go the "Avengers North" route without a name-change? Look at Vol. 3 as an example....imagine if it had a better premise(the art was great, but sorry Scott...the comedy approach was a horrible idea)...I believe it would've held onto most of the 40,000+ readers it started out with. The Byrne AF was a huge seller(even for back in those days), but after he left the sales began to drop...and I don't think it was just because of Byrne leaving....the new writer(Mantlo) was killing and screwing up our AF...that would certainly make readers leave.

"Avengers North" sounds better than "Avengers Canada" to me, though(no offense meant toward my northern neighbors)...I just don't want a name-change. That is...if a change of name is in their plans.

Oh yeah...Joke Q is an inept buffoon.

[kozzi24]

from
http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays28.html


NRAMA: "Gamma Duck" - With the team itself getting a mention in Millar's interview in Wizard and your comments this past Friday of a "not-necessarily-the-West-Coast-Avengers" team potentially in the works, is it possible that we'll be seeing a new Champions team made up of the former Avengers who didn't make the cut in Bendis' book, as well as some (hopefully) other non-Avengers characters?

JQ- Gamma Duck, let me just say that the name Champions has been getting thrown around as of late in the Marvel offices. So let me just leave it at that.

Alpha relaunch as Avengers North?

[PWalk]

I really think what's going to happen here will be a kill off of some characters with one or two surviving to join another squad. Which 2 I haven't a clue.

[syvalois]

I really think what's going to happen here will be a kill off of some characters with one or two surviving to join another squad. Which 2 I haven't a clue.

Well from the poste you could say Mac and Puck, but I would say they would kill 2 af member and that would be Puck II and Major maple sirup there :twisted:

[Legerd]

Well from the poste you could say Mac and Puck, but I would say they would kill 2 af member and that would be Puck II and Major maple sirup there :twisted:

I think you're right Syvalois, Puck II and MML will probably be the ones to die so Marvel can clean up the 3rd series debacle before they bring out a new one. :D

[kozzi24]

Put X-Men Unlimited in continuity after that happened, and it would make a lot more sense too, in terms of character motivation.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Bendis better not kill Heather either. :x

[kozzi24]

Bendis better not kill Heather either. :x
I don't think they would. There's a certain shyness in orphaning babies, so as long as little Emma (or whatever her name is) is alive, I would think Heather's safe.

[-K-M-]

Bendis better not kill Heather either. :x
I don't think they would. There's a certain shyness in orphaning babies, so as long as little Emma (or whatever her name is) is alive, I would think Heather's safe.

I don't even think it was named yet.

[kozzi24]

Bendis better not kill Heather either. :x
I don't think they would. There's a certain shyness in orphaning babies, so as long as little Emma (or whatever her name is) is alive, I would think Heather's safe.

I don't even think it was named yet.
She wasn't. Don't know why, but I always picked up on "Emma" as a name...I'm strange

[HappyCanuck]

Bendis better not kill Heather either. :x
I don't think they would. There's a certain shyness in orphaning babies, so as long as little Emma (or whatever her name is) is alive, I would think Heather's safe.

I don't even think it was named yet.
She wasn't. Don't know why, but I always picked up on "Emma" as a name...I'm strange

Heh, someone's been watching too much 'Friends' :P

[Canucklehead]

My sister named my neice Emma 5 months before that Friends episode came out because she thought it was nice and was not widely used.... Yeah, who isn't named Emma these days? lol

But yeah, that Champions idea could work. Somehting like the Exiles but always in the Marvel U. Fan favorite characters from all of the teams that don't sell well in their own titles. Something like that could be interesting. Sasquatch and Puck for example would want to keep Canadian needs on the teams mind if there is no official team left with the sole responsibilty of protecting the "true north strong and free."

[maniac mike]

Here is the link to the poster for Marvels summer event...

http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JF27art/whoseside.jpg

Guardian is shown in the upper left corner. (He's in the W)

MM

[-K-M-]

Here is the link to the poster for Marvels summer event...

http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JF27art/whoseside.jpg

Guardian is shown in the upper left corner. (He's in the W)

MM

Already posted and it's Puck and Guardian in the W
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/wsayo6cs.gif

[Adam]

I was wondering how current that picture was (the one they used in the background of the letters) because it ~could~ just be old stock art, but I see one of the new New Warriors and I think one of the Young Avengers in there. So that's a good sign.

[MistressMerr]

It's a collage of lots of different pictures from different comics. I'm pretty sure the image of Mac and Judd is from New Avengers #16.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I don't know....it looks a lot like the same artist did the poster to me. It doesn't have the varied look of a collage by various artists.

Dana

[maniac mike]

It looks like Steve McNiven drew it as a poster and not as a collage from what i could make out?

MM

[MistressMerr]

Hmmm, yeah, it looks like mostly McNiven stuff, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a bunch of those pictures (Mac and Judd, Cloak, Nico, and big guy in the back) somewhere else before.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Maybe McNiven isn't very original in his artwork? I dunno...

SPOILERS ABOUT AVENGERS#16
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http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6316
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It's the "Collective" that Alpha is facing, after it has crashed to earth. It being the combined energy/powers of all the de-powered mutants...It looks like AF are in big trouble. Another idea...what if the Collective can drain powers/energy...leaving AF powerless? That could translate to it being AF's last battle...sort of?

Dana

[MistressMerr]

Yeah, except none of them really have powers. Mac and Heather have suits, Major just has his horse, both Pucks are just tough, and Shaman's really more knowledge-based.

[-K-M-]

Yep after reading that it does not sit well with me.

[DelBubs]

From what I've read, the 'Collective' is the combined mutant powers of the many thousand who have lost their powers. It falls to earth, etc, etc...

[PWalk]

What a lame excuse of a villian to fall to. The combined powers of all the mutants who lost their powers in House of M? Weak. I'd have rather had it where they lose to some supreme intergalactic beast or being. THis collective deal is lame. Why does it always have to be some big bad? Couldn't it once be an overwhelming force of thousands of beings invading? Or are artists and writers these days to lazy?

[DelBubs]

This is what Dana posted on page four of this thread
'It's the "Collective" that Alpha is facing, after it has crashed to earth. It being the combined energy/powers of all the de-powered mutants...It looks like AF are in big trouble. Another idea...what if the Collective can drain powers/energy...leaving AF powerless? That could translate to it being AF's last battle...sort of?

Dana

He alsoo provides a link to an interview/article re Bendis. So it would seem Dana is a better researcher than either of us.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_75.gif

It still sounds a bit lame though, as you said Pwalk.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Thanks, Del....but I more or less, stumbled upon the link.


Yeah, except none of them really have powers. Mac and Heather have suits, Major just has his horse, both Pucks are just tough, and Shaman's really more knowledge-based.

Well...if the creature can drain energy(pretty much every form of it, if you think about it)...then the Hudsons are certainly in trouble. Both Pucks have powers.... Since the Major is there without Thunder....I believe the writer is ignoring that he gets his powers from a horse. The "Collective" may also just suck the life energy out of all of them and kill them...I hope that isn't the case.

MM, I was only saying the powerloss was a possibilty...although it's more likely they're going to be massacred.

Dana :(

[Mokole]

I agree it's a pretty dumb idea but I guess the writing might make sense of it (of course not).

I expect most of AF to survive, maybe on e or two badly hurt. Shaman, MML, and Zuzha are most likely in my opinion but who knows??

[Ben]

yah, not really sure how the whole story line is supposed to make sense...

- Scarlet Witch alters reality, and half of humanity is Mutants...this doesn't work well
- Scarlet Witch alters reality again, setting it back the way it was, but only 198 mutants are left...
- the left over mutant power from when reality was altered is given to a buch of aliens that crash land on earth...

wait, that last part doesn't really make any sense...not that the rest of it did at that...

Ben

[DelBubs]

Happy Christmas to us from Bendis

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_87.gif
Thanks, Comicdoms Blue Eyed Boy (NOT!)

[cmdrkoenig67]

Happy Christmas to us from Bendis

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_87.gif
Thanks, Comicdoms Blue Eyed Boy (NOT!)

You said it, Pal. Feh on BMB.

Dana

[suzene]

Bendis does have talent. The problem is, he's in that group of writers who can give you a really good read if he's working with his own toys, but who don't give a damn about continuity if he gets his claws into established characters. Alias? Powers? Damn good reads, both of them. Avengers Dissasembled? House of M? New Avengers? *shudder!*

I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for our Alphans, guys, even if they aren't mutants...or weren't before, I should say. This guy decided in a heartbeat that Wanda didn't have chaos magic anymore, I'm sure he'll have no problem saying that AF has really been stocked entirely by mutants all this time and no one knew.

Suzene

[RatCat]

Yeah, I am leaning towards massacre.

If it were just one or two members getting wiped out I don’t think the team would fold up and stop… The words that keep haunting me are “Final Battle”

Remember Sasquatch started a brand new team when he was the only one left. So in my mind the only way to stop Alpha Flight is total destruction…




I hope I’m wrong.

[Ben]

Well, with Mac and Puck on the civil war poster, and the talk about Resurrections in that story arc, there's always hope.

Ben

[Legerd]

I for one am really getting tired with having to always HOPE Marvel will be kind to my fav characters! Can we not get a letter writing campaign or something started again? Did it ever stop? How about we take up a collection and buy a full page ad in the New York Times asking Marvel to bring back Alpha Flight? Does Joe Q have any kids we could kidnap? :x

[HappyCanuck]

Does Joe Q have any kids we could kidnap? :x

If he does, I feel REALLY sorry for them...

[Adam]

I don't know....it looks a lot like the same artist did the poster to me. It doesn't have the varied look of a collage by various artists.

The gent who runs my LCS threw me a copy of Wizard for Christmas, and there's a full colour version of this drawing on page 54. it's most definitely Guardian and Puck in the image and it's a McNiven. It also features many "current" characters like the recent New Warriors, Thunderbolts, Young Avengers etc. So maybe there's some hope at least Mac and Judd will survive New Avengers.

The premise is also explained, as a Superhero Registration Act that forces heroes to give up their identities for national security reasons divides the cast with an Avengers member leading each faction.

Millar is quoted however with saying that he has to keep tweaking the issue because he learns "Oh no, actually the New Warriors are doing this..." which the paranoid among us can swap out "Oh no, actually Alpha Flight was killed by Bendis"

[cmdrkoenig67]

Bendis does have talent. The problem is, he's in that group of writers who can give you a really good read if he's working with his own toys, but who don't give a damn about continuity if he gets his claws into established characters. Alias? Powers? Damn good reads, both of them. Avengers Dissasembled? House of M? New Avengers? *shudder!*

Writers breaking toys that aren't theirs?....It's how I feel about Grant Morrison.



I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for our Alphans, guys, even if they aren't mutants...or weren't before, I should say. This guy decided in a heartbeat that Wanda didn't have chaos magic anymore, I'm sure he'll have no problem saying that AF has really been stocked entirely by mutants all this time and no one knew.

Suzene

I'm going to stay as positive as possible and hope for the best(with Puck II and MMII being the only casualties).

Dana :wink:

[kozzi24]

With the talk of resurrections in the Civil War event, (so much for "dead is dead") do we need to worry overmuch even if the one issue holds a horrific fate for Alpha? Especially as Ben noted, with Mac and Judd on the poster?

[maniac mike]

I just got the new Wizard mag today and they have a full colored poster of Marvels "Civil War" and yep, Guardian and Puck are seen in the upper left hand corner. But as I was looking at everybody else in the poster I happened to notice that at the bottom right corner, a curtain (hairy) character was hiding there :wink: of course it could also be Chewbacca too. :lol:

MM

[-K-M-]

I just got the new Wizard mag today and they have a full colored poster of Marvels "Civil War" and yep, Guardian and Puck are seen in the upper left hand corner. But as I was looking at everybody else in the poster I happened to notice that at the bottom right corner, a curtain (hairy) character was hiding there :wink: of course it could also be Chewbacca too. :lol:

MM

Are you serious? if that's true you just made by night

[Ben]

anyone able to do a nice up-close scan of that part of the poster?

Ben

[-K-M-]

anyone able to do a nice up-close scan of that part of the poster?

Ben

I can get the scan tommorow, which issue is this? I picked up the january issue and I didn't see it

[maniac mike]

It's ish #172, you can't miss it, Brandon Routh is on the cover as Superman. The "Civil War" article is on page 54.

I would scan it for ya Ben, but I won't get my scanner til X-mas :(

MM

[-K-M-]

It's ish #172, you can't miss it, Brandon Routh is on the cover as Superman. The "Civil War" article is on page 54.

I would scan it for ya Ben, but I won't get my scanner til X-mas :(

MM

GAH! I got issue #171, but Jessica Alba was on the cover so all is well

[suzene]

Writers breaking toys that aren't theirs?....It's how I feel about Grant Morrison.

Oh, yes...secondary mutations make me want to puke.

Suzene

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Wait a minute. Didn't somebody say that Grant Morrison and some other writer whose name escapes me would be excellent choices to do Alpha Flight? What happened?

[kozzi24]

Writers breaking toys that aren't theirs?....It's how I feel about Grant Morrison.

Oh, yes...secondary mutations make me want to puke.

Suzene
I didn't understand why the no more mutants thing didn't wipe out the secondary mutations either. I kind of like Emma Frost's diamond form, but after all this time, I still hate the Beast's cat look...and his blue furred look isn't a natural mutation anyway!

[DelBubs]

Worth a look. (http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays30.html)

[kozzi24]

I wonder if there will be a tip of the hat to V1#120...

[Le Messor]

Bendis does have talent. Avengers Dissasembled? House of M? New Avengers? *shudder!*
I'm going to stay as positive as possible and hope for the best(with Puck II and MMII being the only casualties).
Dana :wink:

I liked all the Bendis books listed; but remember when I say that, I read Avengers as token only, and feel no loyalty towards them.

Dana, you keep doing that. (Pats Dana's head, being completely patronising and superior.) {northstar}

Also, what's a Canadian group doing getting involved in an issue of US legislation?

- Le Messor
"Don’t make a big deal out of everything; just deal with everything."

[-K-M-]

Isn't this event sort of pointless anyways? SHIELD already has the indenties of all heroes and villians to begin with on disc, anyone remember "Identity Disc" ark? that's what it was about.

[MistressMerr]

Yeah, but I'm guessing in this case, it'd be public domain.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I just got the new Wizard mag today and they have a full colored poster of Marvels "Civil War" and yep, Guardian and Puck are seen in the upper left hand corner. But as I was looking at everybody else in the poster I happened to notice that at the bottom right corner, a curtain (hairy) character was hiding there :wink: of course it could also be Chewbacca too. :lol:

MM

Hmmm...It looks kind of like Werewolf By Night.

Dana

[HappyCanuck]

:shock: .... whoa, deja vu.....

[cmdrkoenig67]

LOL! Why...whatever do you mean?!

Dana

[-K-M-]

Here's a link to the whole poster and a discussion who that Beast is
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=99552&page=1&pp=15

[cmdrkoenig67]

I know now...that it isn't Sasquatch. It could very well be a miscolored Beast though, as some folks on that message board have surmised(although, he doesn't have the Beast's cat ears). I thought it was Jack Russell/Werewolf By Night because he seemed to be grouped with the Marvel Knights bunch...I'm thinking it still might be him(WWBN).

Dana

Edited to add more evidence that this creature isn't Sassy...We've seen what McNiven's Sasq looks like....and this ain't him.

http://forum.alphaflight.net/album_pic.php?pic_id=511

http://forum.alphaflight.net/album_pic.php?pic_id=489

They look very different. I believe it's McNiven's version of Werewolf By Night.

[DelBubs]

I'm opting for Sas. The artist could have taken liberties if this is just a promo piece. I'm not sure of Werewolfs by Night recent appearences, but if he was going to be used, he would have been highlighted more. Just an uninformed opinion.

[-K-M-]

Well if it is Sasquatch they sure did make him a midget.

[DelBubs]

I don't think Sas has been drawn in proportion for years anyhows :-) I am more inclined to go with him than WBN, but then again
I'm prolly wrong (http://www.toonopedia.com/werewolf.htm)

[varo]

full size page for civil war. that has to be sas bottom right hand corner.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Aztekh/Split.jpg

[HappyCanuck]

Based off colouring and lighting alone, I'd love to say that's Walt, but it could easily be Jack Russell, one of the beasties from Howling Commandoes, or hell, even Chewbacca far as I can tell...

What I wanna know is, is that Mary-Jane there between Black Bolt and the Falcon? (The costume's not right if that's supposed to be Medusa) And if so, why is she there?! She's not exactly a 'hero'...

[varo]

could be. not all the costumes seem accurate. captain britain seems a little off as well.

looks like he has been "x"ified

[varo]

i also love the fact that it's not only marvels big guns. nova, wonderman, moon knight, alpha, hell even speedball is in there.

btw, new warriors is another team that deserves proper treatment.

[HappyCanuck]

could be. not all the costumes seem accurate. captain britain seems a little off as well.

looks like he has been "x"ified


That's his new cossie from New Excalubur

[zekethegreat]

What I wanna know is, is that Mary-Jane there between Black Bolt and the Falcon? (The costume's not right if that's supposed to be Medusa) And if so, why is she there?! She's not exactly a 'hero'...

That isn't Mary Jane, it's the Black Widow(I think).

Zeke

[PWalk]

Who the heck is the green guy with blonde hair on the left side of the pic? In the middle. I'll be honest I don't really read alot of comics other than AF and 25% of the characters on that poster I don't even recognize.

[-K-M-]

Who the heck is the green guy with blonde hair on the left side of the pic? In the middle. I'll be honest I don't really read alot of comics other than AF and 25% of the characters on that poster I don't even recognize.

That's Hulkling from Young Avengers, he is actually gay and his lover Wiccan [formerly Asguardian] is the guy inbetween the Patriot [african-american], Human Torch and Captain America

[varo]

What I wanna know is, is that Mary-Jane there between Black Bolt and the Falcon? (The costume's not right if that's supposed to be Medusa) And if so, why is she there?! She's not exactly a 'hero'...

That isn't Mary Jane, it's the Black Widow(I think).

Zeke


nope, black widow near front by punisher.

[zekethegreat]

nope, black widow near front by punisher.

Oh :?

Then I guess it is Mary Jane though it is weird, but that's comics for ya gets weirder every minute.

Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

[Canucklehead]

nope, black widow near front by punisher.

Oh :?

Then I guess it is Mary Jane though it is weird, but that's comics for ya gets weirder every minute.

Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

If Bendis is somewhat involved, I's say it's Jessica Jones

[HappyCanuck]

What I wanna know is, is that Mary-Jane there between Black Bolt and the Falcon? (The costume's not right if that's supposed to be Medusa) And if so, why is she there?! She's not exactly a 'hero'...

That isn't Mary Jane, it's the Black Widow(I think).

Zeke

Nope, Black Widow is down there between Punisher, Dagger and Sasquatch/Werewolf-By-Night/Chewbacca



Who the heck is the green guy with blonde hair on the left side of the pic? In the middle. I'll be honest I don't really read alot of comics other than AF and 25% of the characters on that poster I don't even recognize.

I think that's Hulkling from Young Avengers.

[cmdrkoenig67]

nope, black widow near front by punisher.

Oh :?

Then I guess it is Mary Jane though it is weird, but that's comics for ya gets weirder every minute.

Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

If Bendis is somewhat involved, I's say it's Jessica Jones

I believe its Medusa(her outfit appears to be pink and purple)...Her hair is really, really long, red and she's with Black Bolt and Gorgon.

Dana

[PWalk]

Hulkling? Hmmm...


And I would say that is indeed Medusa in the top right.

[DelBubs]

With hindsight and given his close proximity to Moon Knight, I would hazard that the wookie thing is Jack Russell.

[Mokole]

Well if it is Sasquatch they sure did make him a midget.

I'm not sure who it is. Could be Sasquatch but if it's a miscolouring then it could be anyone. Can't say who it is by the company they keep (after all, Cyclops is with Ghost Rider and Punisher). He;s huge compared to Moon Knight so it very well is Sasquatch.

[Spyridona]

I want it to be Sassy, I really do. However, isn't he well known in Canada and it wouldn't be such a big deal so he would stick with Alpha Flight? Unless, OMG, they actually don't pay attention to AF canon, again.

[cmdrkoenig67]

It isn't Sasquatch!!!!!

Dana :D

[HappyCanuck]

It isn't Sasquatch!!!!!

Dana :D

heh, I think we're giving Dana an aneurism.... :D

Breath, mate, breath!! it's not th end of the world!

[Powersurge]

Given some of the renditions of Sasquatch that I'veseen, this one looks more like him than most. And anyway, in the spirit of logical deduction, who else could it be?! I personally can't think of anyone else all muscley, orange, and hairy, so my money says its Sasq.

[MistressMerr]

Teams are grouped together for the most part and we've already seen McNiven's Sasquatch. It's not him.

[syvalois]

Teams are grouped together for the most part and we've already seen McNiven's Sasquatch. It's not him.

I agree with you

[Spyridona]

It isn't Sasquatch!!!!!

Dana :D

:twisted: I'm a frigging Pollyanna! Let me pretend its him until we see poor Sassy's body sprawled out dead in New Avengers!

Though, seriously, that's why I said "Want". Logically, Mr. Unknown Fuzzy can't be Sasquatch.

Now listen to Happy and breathe, 'young man'. :D

[DelBubs]

It isn't Sasquatch!!!!!

Dana :D
So, not Sasquatch then :? :?:

[cmdrkoenig67]

LOL...Okay...Caught my breath. As Mistress Merr said...we've seen McNiven's Sassy(this isn't him)....it could very well be Werewolf By Night(since he's grouped with the Marvel knights). Those are also my reasons for it not being Sasquatch.

I have every hope that Walter isn't going to buy it in New Avengers.

Dana

[maniac mike]

I'm still convinced it's Chewie or some other Wookie. :wink: :lol:

MM

[Legerd]

Hey guys, is that Sasquatch on the "Whose Side Are You On?" poster? :twisted:

[Legerd]

heh, I think we're giving Dana an aneurism.... :D


Oh, is it his birthday? :D

[cmdrkoenig67]

GAAAHHHH!!!! BRAIN...BLEEDING...GKH!

[Barnacle13]

You are all horribly wrong here! Isn't it obvious this is Captain Caveman from 1970's Saturday morning fame! Uga!

[Mokole]

Nope, I found out it's really Friend Bear after he fell into the hands of Weapon X. Poor bear got even more orange.

[DelBubs]

I am now convinced it is not friggin Captain Caveman :D , but Hair Bear from the Hair Bear Bunch. Any self respecting comic fan would know that, you should all be :oops:

[Ben]

I am now convinced it is not friggin Captain Caveman :D , but Hair Bear from the Hair Bear Bunch. Any self respecting comic fan would know that, you should all be :oops:


"Hair Bear Count Up, 1..2..3..4.."

Been

[shaman]

SOOOOO THEY CALL, HELP! HELP! HERE COME BEARS. HELP! HELP! HERE THE BEARS. HELP! HELP! HERE COME THE BEARS! LETS RUN! HHHEELPP! IT'S THE HAIR BEAR BUNCH!

[Legerd]

So... it's Jack Sasquatch the friendly wookie hair care bear for a bunch of werewolf cavemen, right? :?

[DelBubs]

So... it's Jack Sasquatch the friendly wookie hair care bear for a bunch of werewolf cavemen, right? :?
Either that or Willie Nelson. (http://music.yahoo.com/track/722658)

[langkowski_fan]

or possibly one of the Lobo Brothers :D ...remember them from Ripley's?

[Phil]

It's me circa New Years Day

[Legerd]

In that case, whose side are you on? :?:

[Phil]

The side of the bar, propped up.

[Defunct]

Here's the "unripped" version of the Civil War poster: http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JF32art/mcnivencivilwar.jpg




. . . Yeah, that ain't Sasquatch.

[kozzi24]

Could that be Aurora to the left of Union Jack and Captain Britain?

[zekethegreat]

Could that be Aurora to the left of Union Jack and Captain Britain?

No, that would be that character from the Runaways. I forget her name but she has the Staff, so it's her.

Zeke

[MistressMerr]

Could that be Aurora to the left of Union Jack and Captain Britain?

No, that would be that character from the Runaways. I forget her name but she has the Staff, so it's her.

Zeke

Nico Minoru, Sister Grimm.

[mos_def]

I have a bad feeling about AF last battle. For some reason I keep seeing Sasquatch getting his chest blasted open, while Mac and Heather get wasted in anger. I hope Im wrong

[-K-M-]

Hmmmm...it's a stretch, but I'm just being optomistic. Could it still be Sasquatch in the corner drawn in the style of vol.3?

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AF5_03.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AF5_04.jpg
3. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/AF5_0405.jpg

[mos_def]

Mungi- the first pic does look like the wookie from the Civil War promo

[cmdrkoenig67]

GROAN!!!!!!...Oh, pardon me.

Dana :wink:

[zekethegreat]

Mungi- the first pic does look like the wookie from the Civil War promo

It doesn't look like it at all. Why do you have to say it's Sasquatch? it obviously isn't!!! since when does Sasquatch have those kind of claws or nose or teeth? It cannot be him at all!!!(now wouldn't be funny if a creator then said that it is him(which nobody will))

Zeke

[Le Messor]

It doesn't look like it at all. Why do you have to say it's Sasquatch? it obviously isn't!!! since when does Sasquatch have those kind of claws or nose or teeth? It cannot be him at all!!!(now wouldn't be funny if a creator then said that it is him(which nobody will))
Zeke

Ah, Zeke, the optimism of untried youth!

Just because he's never looked anything like that before, doesn't mean it's not him. Have you seen how different he looks every five minutes? {sas}
Look at Kyle in the banner; and that's not even the full gamut of his face.

That said, I'm in the 'it ain't Sasquatch' camp; just not for those reasons.

- Le Messor
"The masks they slide - to reveal a new disguise."
- Siouxsie and the Banshees, _Face to Face_

[-K-M-]

Yesh! I even stated earlier I think it's Werewolf by Night, I was just trying to be optomistic.

[langkowski_fan]

Whoa, they're actually involving Ghost Rider in a major event like that? Cool. Glad to see some more less major, but definitely no less cooler characters in that pic. Those are the characters that definitely deserve the time to shine.

[HappyCanuck]

Whoa, they're actually involving Ghost Rider in a major event like that? Cool. Glad to see some more less major, but definitely no less cooler characters in that pic. Those are the characters that definitely deserve the time to shine.

There only doing that because of the Ghost Rider movie next year. Figure with the movie coming out, nows a good time to 'revitalise' the character.

[-K-M-]

Whoa, they're actually involving Ghost Rider in a major event like that? Cool. Glad to see some more less major, but definitely no less cooler characters in that pic. Those are the characters that definitely deserve the time to shine.

There only doing that because of the Ghost Rider movie next year. Figure with the movie coming out, nows a good time to 'revitalise' the character.

Plus the mini of his that came out is actually really good.

[HappyCanuck]

thats what I hear. who's doing the newest mini, does anyone know?

[-K-M-]

thats what I hear. who's doing the newest mini, does anyone know?

Garth Ennis & Clayton Crain

[HappyCanuck]

Figured it was an Ennis project. looks like his style.

[langkowski_fan]

Yeah, it's actually a very good series, you should really check it out, it's a little different from any GR series before it, Clayton Crain makes some really great visuals. Hopefully, they'll make a new GR series bc of it. With Ennis at the helm I think it would really sell. Like Alpha, GR is one of those comics deserves a new, worthy ongoing series. I mean, he rides a flaming motorcycle and has a flaming skull for a head...what's not cool about him?

[SephirothsKiller]

Yeh, GR deserves to be fleshed out. As does the flight... I can't see them killing off sasquatch he's too classic, but maybe they figure that they should let the flight be absorbed because of its dedicated reader base. Sort of a bad comprimise? (I swear though, if they decide to kill off a team in one issue i want some bad ass art in there. Sassy smashing the place to bits and ripping off heads and stuff.) Can Puck actually be killed? I thought he was indestructible.

[SephirothsKiller]

Okay so I haven't read the entire thread, skipped ahead abit, but did anybody notice? on the Civil War poster: Top left. Puck. Guardian.

[HappyCanuck]

Heh, Seph, maybe you should read the thread. that's what started it all!

[Powersurge]

Seems to me that the fact that Canada already has a Superhuman Registration Act gives some hope that at least some of Alpha will play a role, however slight, in the Civil War.

I mean how could they do a story about a mass division over such an Act and entirely ignore the fact that Canada has already "fought" that "War" and has such an Act?

On second thought; don't answer that.

[DelBubs]

Did Canada actually implement the Act or was it curtailed after the exposure of the Master and his connection to the Hardliners?

[SephirothsKiller]

and of course there isn't any guarantee that such a law remained in continuity even if it did pass.

[Le Messor]

Yeh, GR deserves to be fleshed out.

Wouldn't that kind of ruin the character?
Next you'll be suggesting getting rid of the flames...

:twisted:

- Le Messor
"Don’t use no double negatives."

[cmdrkoenig67]

Can Puck actually be killed? I thought he was indestructible.

His skin supposedly has the density of hardened rubber, far from indestructible(that would be Diamond Lil).

Dana :D