198 FILES SPOILERS!!!

[MistressMerr]

NORTHSTAR, PERSUASION, AND DIAMOND LIL ARE ALL STILL POWERED. *glee*

[varo]

aurora?

[MistressMerr]

Well, yeah, but we already knew that from the preview pages.

[zekethegreat]

I'm surprised they mentioned Persuasion. Maybe it means thay're going to bring her back :D (probably).

Zeke

[Barnacle13]

Awesome! Looks like at least some of the older Alpha Characters are getting some props. These are all Volume 1 characters, too. Kinda validates what a lot of us have been saying all along...."if you're gonna put something called Alpha Flight on the stands, why not have Alpha Flight characters in the comic?" Hopefully this event will lead to better more character focused stories with good team dynamics, like we saw back in the 80s. I find it hard to believe that new readers can't get interested in the likes of Vindicator, Sasquatch, Northstar, Aurora, Snowbird, Shaman, Puck, Guardian, Box, Talisman, Persuasion, Diamond Lil, Jefferies, and the like. I'm sure any new Canadian readers would be chomping at the bit to read about Vindicator/Guardian/Mac! A lot of folks buy for the artwork, but let's be honest here, the are comic BOOKS! If the story isn't good no one will read them. They'd call them comic portfolios if they were only about great art and flashy characters. Maybe we're seeing a reverse in the trend to provide sytle over substance finally. Give us back the tried and true characters and slip a newbie in every once in awhile.

[zekethegreat]

barnacle, writing has always been underrated by the people in charge. it used to be that if business wasn't good they'd pay the writers less, or so I've heard(though that was on television).

Zeke

[Powersurge]

To me, comics are about the art first and foremost.Good plots and good writing are important too, but when I pick up a comic it is for the visual experience. If I want good literature I'll pick up Shakespeare or something, which contends with the best of comic stories and blows pretty well all others clear out of the water. But when it comes to comics, the art drives the book, and the plot and writing help carry it along.

I stopped collecting comics back in the 90's precisely because the art absolutely stank ... with "blockmen" characters that my 5 year old son could draw. These days, while comics are grabbing my attention again, I"m still loathe to invest because I have no confidence in quality control and I hate being strung along by a decent story when the art sucks muucho-suckable-things and the price keeps going up.

[-K-M-]

Full list is: Aurora, Diamond Lil,Madison Jeffries, Northstar, Persuasion

[Barnacle13]

To me, comics are about the art first and foremost.Good plots and good writing are important too, but when I pick up a comic it is for the visual experience. If I want good literature I'll pick up Shakespeare or something, which contends with the best of comic stories and blows pretty well all others clear out of the water. But when it comes to comics, the art drives the book, and the plot and writing help carry it along.

I stopped collecting comics back in the 90's precisely because the art absolutely stank ... with "blockmen" characters that my 5 year old son could draw. These days, while comics are grabbing my attention again, I"m still loathe to invest because I have no confidence in quality control and I hate being strung along by a decent story when the art sucks muucho-suckable-things and the price keeps going up.

I won't argue the value of great art. Volume 2 was a failure in that department. Stories weren't bad, but the art stunk. Volume 3 was the opposite side of that coin. The art rocked, but the stories stank. Even with crappy art Volume 2 lasted far longer than Volume 3. Call me cynical, but I think folks want both good art and good stories for their hard earned dollars. Otherwise, why would we all be here *****ing about continuity flaws and poor characterization of our favorite characters?

[kozzi24]

There's a disclaimor on the opening page that "these are the earliest confirmed figures" so no one is definitely de-powered by their exclusion in the book.
I personally was wondering about Purple Man.
I thought some of the patterns were odd. All of the Mauraders still seem to have powers, oddly enough. The other patterns were clear politics. All of Grant Morrison's X-Men characters seem to have been spared, as are characters created by Alan Davis, including Micromax and Kylun.

Whoever at Marvel approved the dark blue "hyperlink" style against a black background should be FIRED IMMEDIATELY. All but unreadable!

[Mokole]

Full list is: Aurora, Diamond Lil,Madison Jeffries, Northstar, Persuasion

Hooray for Box!

Maybe he can be in Alpha Flight again!

[-K-M-]

Hooray for Box!

Maybe he can be in Alpha Flight again!

It's possible that's if Alpha Flight is still around after Bendis, oh and here is their threat levels

Madison Jeffries- High
Aurora- Significant
Northstar- Significant
Persuasion- Significant
Diamond Lil- General

Goes from: Severe, High, Significant, General, and Low

[Verletzt]

Hi everyone,

Sorry just to jump right in on a conversation. I have been reading this site recently since so many things related to Alpha Flight have been happening. (The mutant depowering and Bendis' Last Battle) I knew this site would have the best info and news for anything Alpha Flight related. I have been a HUGE Alpha Flight fan for a long time.

I picked up the 198 files today. Although I was excited to see several Alphans listed, why did they list Persuasion? I was hoping since the coloring issue gave her a Neverland reprieve, that she would not have been listed as incarcerated. In fact, why list any of the Neverland mutants if they won't tell us what really happened to them? I know Marvel has always had a problem with continuity, but they have really gotten bad lately. My favorite character is Goblyn (imagine that, lol).

I would have hoped we would have gotten an update on what happened to her and Laura. Marvel should do a text listing of depowered mutants. (Besides the erroneous Wizard one)

[suzene]

It's possible that's if Alpha Flight is still around after Bendis, oh and here is their threat levels

Madison Jeffries- High
Aurora- Significant
Northstar- Significant
Persuasion- Significant
Diamond Lil- General

Goes from: Severe, High, Significant, General, and Low

I disagree with the threat levels for Northstar and Aurora; I think they both should have been bumped up a notch. A super-speedster with flight capabilities and a chip on his shoulder should be horrifying. As much as I *hated* what Millar did to Northstar, I thought he was at least a logical choice to use as an assassain -- given his capabilities, Northstar could start at the ground floor of the UN unarmed and have everyone in the building dead before anyone even knew to send out a call for help. Then the story wussed out in the delivery and I went back to complete loathing of the whole idea.

But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Alpha Flight mutants were mostly spared and even more so that Kylun and Micromax made the cut. Maybe Claremont plans to use 'em over in the new old Excalibur.

Suzene

[Mokole]

Welcome, Verletzt!

Me, a Box and Feedback and Nemesis and Witchfire and Windshear and Zuzha and... fan. Box is still my #1. Good to see him there, hope he gets in Alpha Flight! :wink:

[bigbloo]

Hooray for Box!

Maybe he can be in Alpha Flight again!

It's possible that's if Alpha Flight is still around after Bendis, oh and here is their threat levels

Madison Jeffries- High
Aurora- Significant
Northstar- Significant
Persuasion- Significant
Diamond Lil- General

Goes from: Severe, High, Significant, General, and Low


So the list of Alpha Flight mutants that are presumably depowered are:

Talisman (who i have always considered as a mutant who can sense magic, though she has other powers from the circlet of power or whatever thats called)
Wild Child
Flashback (if still alive)
Laura Dean
Goblyn (now probably a regular girl??? that would be an interesting story)
Manikin
Windshear
Silver/Auric (can you imagine them suddenly turning into regular people out in space?)

Are the Hull House legacies considered mutants?
Radius
Flex
Ghost Girl
Flinch
Ouija

Who else am i missing???

[-K-M-]

They never really did explain Flinch and Ouija's powers in vol.2. what were they?

[zekethegreat]

They never really did explain Flinch and Ouija's powers in vol.2. what were they?

Flinch was seen with a red field around him and he was sniffing, so I assume he has some nose power(the field might have been put on him by Dept. H). As for Ouija, I don't remember anything about him.

Zeke

[HappyCanuck]

They never really did explain Flinch and Ouija's powers in vol.2. what were they?

Flinch was seen with a red field around him and he was sniffing, so I assume he has some nose power(the field might have been put on him by Dept. H). As for Ouija, I don't remember anything about him.

Zeke

Other than his stench, I don't remember Flinch being assigned an ability (tho I may be wrong), and we can presume, based off his/her name that Ouiji's a precog.... well, was, since s/he's dead...

[kozzi24]

Hi everyone,

Sorry just to jump right in on a conversation. I have been reading this site recently since so many things related to Alpha Flight have been happening. (The mutant depowering and Bendis' Last Battle) I knew this site would have the best info and news for anything Alpha Flight related. I have been a HUGE Alpha Flight fan for a long time.

I picked up the 198 files today. Although I was excited to see several Alphans listed, why did they list Persuasion? I was hoping since the coloring issue gave her a Neverland reprieve, that she would not have been listed as incarcerated. In fact, why list any of the Neverland mutants if they won't tell us what really happened to them? I know Marvel has always had a problem with continuity, but they have really gotten bad lately. My favorite character is Goblyn (imagine that, lol).

I would have hoped we would have gotten an update on what happened to her and Laura. Marvel should do a text listing of depowered mutants. (Besides the erroneous Wizard one)
The inclusion of the Neverland mutants like the Alphas and Random has me thinking/hoping that Neverland will be dealt with in the 198 series.

[Mokole]

They never really did explain Flinch and Ouija's powers in vol.2. what were they?

Flinch was supposed to be able to hide just outside of sight, causing people to 'flinch', while Ouija was a precog of sorts.

[syvalois]

So the list of Alpha Flight mutants that are presumably depowered are:

Talisman (who i have always considered as a mutant who can sense magic, though she has other powers from the circlet of power or whatever thats called)
Wild Child
Flashback (if still alive)
Laura Dean
Goblyn (now probably a regular girl??? that would be an interesting story)
Manikin
Windshear
Silver/Auric (can you imagine them suddenly turning into regular people out in space?)

Are the Hull House legacies considered mutants?
Radius
Flex
Ghost Girl
Flinch
Ouija

Who else am i missing???

I don't remember maybe Wyre (he is a mutant right?)
Puck II
Centenal
MMF sirup or the horse

And on the depowered list only Talisman and Wildchild were big names or enough history. The rest even if I liked them, are mostly not seen as big guns in th eMarvel Mythos.[/quote]

[-K-M-]

Talisman isn't a mutant, for all we know she could still be powered.

[DelBubs]

I personally was wondering about Purple Man.
If they did depower Purple Man it would be a major continuity glitch. If memory serves his powers were from a chemical accident, not a genetic mutation.

Checked to make sure : http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/p/purpleman.htm

And welcome Verletzt, glad to have you aboard.

[Mokole]

I just noticed that the 198 Files list is incomplete. So Windshear and Feedback et al could still 'make the cut'. Whatever that really means is hard to say, since HoM may be retconned this year even, one never knows.

[kozzi24]

I personally was wondering about Purple Man.
If they did depower Purple Man it would be a major continuity glitch. If memory serves his powers were from a chemical accident, not a genetic mutation.

Checked to make sure : http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/p/purpleman.htm

And welcome Verletzt, glad to have you aboard.

That would be a good reason why he would be powered but not listed!

He's a major continuity glitch anyway. He very clearly died in the Emperor Doom Graphic novel, with his body present, and his body itself was a prop in the latter part of Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run.

[zekethegreat]

That would be a good reason why he would be powered but not listed!

He's a major continuity glitch anyway. He very clearly died in the Emperor Doom Graphic novel, with his body present, and his body itself was a prop in the latter part of Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run.

He was brought back to life in the pages of AF, but that ended up being a dream. But I think that a writer of X-man didn't bother to notice that it was a dream and brought in the pages X-man (though that was revealed as a illusion by Mysterio).
So in short...I don't have a clue when he was officially brought back from the dead(or unofficially).

Zeke

[Verletzt]

I hope we learn that many of the Neverland mutants were freed or escaped. I want Persuasion and Diamond Lil to be ok.

Marvel is notorious for screwing up continuity. Dead people show up all the time without explanation. Makes me wonder if the writers actually read comics. Lol. Then they are forced to add things like "seemingly died" or "somehow returned to life".

When I saw Mandril in Avengers, I was like, "uh, he's dead". LOL! I like Mandril thoguh, so it is ok with me.

[-K-M-]

There was no Namor mentioned in the book, I wonder what is going to happen to him or they just forgot he is a mutant.

[kozzi24]

For Namor, who probably will remain untouched, the simplest explanation is that Wanda's spell effected only human mutants and that his actual mutation is either a natural occurance of the offspring of human and Atlantean, or is a mutation of just the Atlantean genes.

The best solution I ever thought of for Purple Man is:
Dead Ringer had a few trophies of dead people because he needed to touch the body to gain the powers. By the nature of Purple Man's powers, Dead Ringer's constant proximity to the finger he carried around with him allowed Zebediah's soul and corperal appearance to over-write Dead Ringer's body. Over time, Dead Ringer became Killgrave. After all, if the Killgrave that has been seen regularly in Thunderbolts is the original in body and soul, he should be missing a finger.

[DelBubs]

Kinda curious here, has there been an official bucket of BS in a Marvel comic explaining how Purple Man returned. Or was his death conveniently forgotten?

[MistressMerr]

According to the New Avengers Most Wanted Files, he apparently has slow-acting regenerative capabilities, allowing him to recover from seemingly fatal injuries.

[HappyCanuck]

:? .......... even AFTER being in the grave for several years??

[sengsterooney]

[quote="King_Mungi"][quote=Mokole]
Hooray for Box!

Talisman (who i have always considered as a mutant who can sense magic, though she has other powers from the circlet of power or whatever thats called)
Wild Child
Flashback (if still alive)
Laura Dean
Goblyn (now probably a regular girl??? that would be an interesting story)
Manikin
Windshear
Silver/Auric (can you imagine them suddenly turning into regular people out in space?)


I don't think Talisman is a mutant. She's probably no more a mutant than Buffy Summers. Elizabeth Twoyoungmen is the Talisman, the Promised/Chosen One etc etc. :-) Also, I though Silver and Auric carked it (died) in some Spidey annual years back and that their bodies were amalgamated to form some sentient celestial being that went off to Space World.

Why did they decide on 198 as the number of mutants remaining in post House of M Marvel Universe?

[MistressMerr]

:? .......... even AFTER being in the grave for several years??

VERY slow-acting regeneration, I suppose.


Why did they decide on 198 as the number of mutants remaining in post House of M Marvel Universe?

Beats me, but 198 isn't the actual number, it was just an early estimate. There are actually a bit more (between 200 and 300 I'd say).

[kozzi24]

According to the New Avengers Most Wanted Files, he apparently has slow-acting regenerative capabilities, allowing him to recover from seemingly fatal injuries.
At least my bucket of BS has some use of the history of the character and his powers rather than the omnipresent "enhanced healing with powers"

[Le Messor]

Silver/Auric (can you imagine them suddenly turning into regular people out in space?)

Also, I though Silver and Auric carked it (died) in some Spidey annual years back and that their bodies were amalgamated to form some sentient celestial being that went off to Space World.

I suspect that's what the original meant; but here's a question:
Did the Scarlet Witch's de-mutanting spell go any further than Earth?

BTW, only one of them carked it, I don't remember which, but they were both shown dead later on.

- Le Messor
"It's do or die--
Hey, I've died twice."
- Buffy

[darc_light]

That stupid scarlet cow :evil: has left Kyle in a very bad position, without his healing factor, he's a lot more vulnerable, he's tough on his own, but it's always good to have a healing factor to fall back on. I don't understand his losing the powers he gained from Wyre's DNA, wouldn't they be considered artificial? Of course, we don't know what specific powers Wyre gave him.

I'm pretty sure Wyre is a Mutant, but since his hairs are described as inorganic, he could be a Mutate.

I remember reading that the Morlocks Erg and Litterbug are among the 198...Erg is a classic NY Morlock, Litterbug is a new Chicago Morlock. We had quite a debate going at the Appendix on whether the Morlocks mini-series was Earth-616 or an alternate Earth, I guess we know now. I was wrong (I said Alternate), but I don't mind :) Cockroach Man Lives! :D

On a related note, I was so mad when they brought Tar Baby and Ape back after 20+ years just to kill them off in one issue in Neverland :evil:
Sadists.... :evil: :twisted:

[cmdrkoenig67]

That stupid scarlet cow :evil: has left Kyle in a very bad position, without his healing factor, he's a lot more vulnerable, he's tough on his own, but it's always good to have a healing factor to fall back on.

I never heard anyone call Joke Quesada a "stupid scarlet cow"...it's a first! :wink:


On a related note, I was so mad when they brought Tar Baby and Ape back after 20+ years just to kill them off in one issue in Neverland :evil:
Sadists.... :evil: :twisted:

I totally agree.

Dana

[Shaman Of The Whills]

I'm not sure there is evidence that Wild Child has been depowered, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions. And I'm also pretty sure that Scarlet Witch wasn't exactly thinking too clearly on such things, particularly like "Oh, how will my silly words affect characters like Wild Child..."

Additionally, from what I've read, Wanda's spells are supposed to have affected the whole universe, but are focused primarily on Earth (as in from the point that she is at the effects are stronger and the further away from her you are the less effect she has on you, or something to that degree). The real thing I'm upset to not have seen is more of Dr. Strange right now, and especially his attempt to kind of lock down this magical problem. I've been for this for years, and am currently trying to right an Alpha based fanfic about it, but I think Strange as Sorcerer Supreme needs to start some sort of magical defense line, using guys like Shaman or other magic wielders to help defend against these sorts of attacks.

Furthermore, rumors are that Wanda has made certain other alterations to the universe, as yet unrevealed, and I'm quite curious as to what exactly that means, and if the ripples from that might also affect our Alphans.

Also, just as a note, I agree with the concept of Talisman as chosen one rather than a mutant, although I don't see that question being directly answered by Marvel in any of the comics too soon. And on that note, going back to the question of Wild Child, I wouldn't assume anyone is depowered until we've actually seen them as such in the comics (like Jubilee, Chamber or the Blob), and even THEN, there is still some hope (the corny, corny Iceman revelation).

[darc_light]

Sorry, jumping to conclusions. :oops:
Until I read X-factor # 142, I thought Kyle was a Mutate, an artificially mutated human, but the Secret Empire merely altered his pre-existing mutation to grotesque lengths.

If this effects the entire universe, then the Shi'Ar are in trouble! :twisted: :lol: The Imperial Guard is made up of a number of mutants, like Electron, Titan and a few others...This is too perfect, after Cassandra Nova devastated the Shi'Ar fleet and now this, The Brood could conceivably swoop down upon the Aerie itself! That would pay them back for practically wiping out the Kree!:twisted: :lol: And Earth wouldn't stand a chance! THE BROOD COULD CONQUER THE UNIVERSE!!!! \:D/
:oops:

[darc_light]

I think Namor is a mutant among the Atlanteans, because of those wings on his ankles that allow him to fly. His clone/son/enemy Llyron also has winged ankles.

[SephirothsKiller]

someone mentioned puck II. Is she a mutant or did she just get some of daddy's power? Like spider girl? And MM doesn't have powers does he? They never actually showed them....

[Mokole]

Zuzha Yu is Puck's daughter. She is amazingly acrobatic and can hit with an incredible amount of force. I doubt she's a mutant, likely got her powers because Dad was carrying a demon sorcerer at the time. Lobdell had her say she could speak before she was born. Nothing beyond that.

[SephirothsKiller]

Yeh i knew who she was... But I hold the same theorey as you as to her power source. I think daddy's demon probably caused her power.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ick...That's all we need(more reminders of that horrible plot-point). I personally, would like to forget the whole Puck had a demon in him thing..thanks. Let's just pretend she's a mutant and leave it at that.

Dana :wink:

[HappyCanuck]

I don't like to ignore plots, not even crappy ones like this one. It's much more interesting to take the godawful plot points and make them feesable.

[Le Messor]

Zuzha Yu is Puck's daughter. She is amazingly acrobatic and can hit with an incredible amount of force. I doubt she's a mutant, likely got her powers because Dad was carrying a demon sorcerer at the time. Lobdell had her say she could speak before she was born. Nothing beyond that.

Something beyond that.

It's just... Nobody knows what.

- Le Messor
"Don’t tell me what you dream’d last night for I’ve been reading Freud."

[cmdrkoenig67]

I don't like to ignore plots, not even crappy ones like this one. It's much more interesting to take the godawful plot points and make them feesable.

Works better, if it's ignored(or better yet...retconned away)...it is a huge continuity screw up on Mantlo's part. He should have read the Byrne issues more closely(where it was clearly stated that Eugene suffered from Achondroplasia), before writing that foolishness(IMHO).

Dana :)

[HappyCanuck]

While I don't agree, Dana, on the principle that retconning and ignorance is the lazy-man's way (or DC's - look at Crises on Infinate Earths), I believe we've had this argument before, and don't think we need a rehash...

Edit: I should specify - yes, Mantlo screwed up with that, THAT I agree to, but I don't think it should be ignored or retconned, since it IS now established as fact, thus we're stuck with it. if you ignore it or retcon it, then you're no better than the other hack writers that we complain about on this board.

[cmdrkoenig67]

While I don't agree, Dana, on the principle that retconning and ignorance is the lazy-man's way (or DC's - look at Crises on Infinate Earths), I believe we've had this argument before, and don't think we need a rehash...

It's fine to disagree with me, however...the only ignorance was Mantlo's...in coming up with that idiotic and totally contradictory tale of demon/sorcerer-possession and those following writers who kept perpetuating that massively bad idea.

Puposely ignoring such a contradiction would neither be lazy or ignorant... simply smart(Not a letter of it, should have been written in the first place). There is no reason to ever address it(Razer-possession) again. It's a huge continuity problem and everyone here knows it.

Dana :)

[HappyCanuck]

again, while I agree with you IN PRINCIPLE on both the fact that Mantlo wasn't paying attention, and that there's REALLY no reason to worry about it again (Since Raazar hasn't been seen in AF since AF 50), again, I don't agree that simply saying 'it didn't happen' isn't the right answer, because all THAT does - esp to a newer reader who doesn't have the same insight as we do - is convolute the story that much more, making the writer of THAT tale just as ignorant of facts as Mantlo was.

[cmdrkoenig67]

again, while I agree with you IN PRINCIPLE on both the fact that Mantlo wasn't paying attention, and that there's REALLY no reason to worry about it again (Since Raazar hasn't been seen in AF since AF 50), again, I don't agree that simply saying 'it didn't happen' isn't the right answer, because all THAT does - esp to a newer reader who doesn't have the same insight as we do - is convolute the story that much more, making the writer of THAT tale just as ignorant of facts as Mantlo was.

Not touching on the Sorcerer-possession/not ever bringing it up again, does not make a writer ignorant of any facts(as long as he knows about all of it). Saying it never happened, does not make him ignorant either...Had he not read any of John's run....then he'd be ignorant. There's a difference between purposely ignoring something and being unaware(ignorant) of it.

Dana

[kozzi24]

I think you were wrong on one point, Dana. No subsequent writer ever dealt with Raazor as being part of Puck. IIRC, he was used in a X-Force Annual or someplace like that.

The Razzor plot can be written off as the Dreamqueen's earliest influence over the team, specifically Puck. The demon was put back in at the end of the issue, not seen again until Puck was "freed" of him in #50...by Asgardian magic, which had previously increased Puck's stature without demonic reference in the 1st X-Men/Alpha LS.

Instead of being a retcon, this explaination actually tightens continuity, so should be acceptable to Allan's POV. The demon does not even have to be mentioned again because Puck is now an athletic dwarf who was involuntarily genetically engineered to have strength and durability akin to hardened rubber.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I think you were wrong on one point, Dana. No subsequent writer ever dealt with Raazor as being part of Puck. IIRC, he was used in a X-Force Annual or someplace like that.

The Razzor plot can be written off as the Dreamqueen's earliest influence over the team, specifically Puck. The demon was put back in at the end of the issue, not seen again until Puck was "freed" of him in #50...by Asgardian magic, which had previously increased Puck's stature without demonic reference in the 1st X-Men/Alpha LS.

Instead of being a retcon this explaination actually tightens continuity, so should be acceptable to Allan's POV. The demon does not even have to be mentioned again because Puck is now an athletic dwarf who was involuntarily genetically engineered to have strength and durability akin to hardened rubber.

I'm not entirely wrong and I'm not just talking about Razer,...At least Two writers touched upon Eugene having been a non-dwarf(regardless of Razer...it's still a huge continuity flub) Hudnall did it in his Llan stories....and Larry Hama in Wolverine#35-37(where Wolverine and Puck are sent back in time and Puck "regains his height"...a really good story, but as I said...a continuity flub, began by Mantlo)..they don't specifically mention Razer, but it's plain to see Puck wasn't always a dwarf.

Dana

[darc_light]

I remember that in Wolverine, where Puck and Logan are sitting in a boat, talking about "battling their demons", it was a while back, but I do believe Puck implied his demon was literal...just before Lady Dee jumped in the boat and they all went back to 1940's Guernica

Why do they have to ruin everything with demons and magic?
Now Spider-Man got his powers from the African trickster/spider god Anansi and/or totemism and/or the cosmic beings Order and Chaos (Not KHAOS, who's a totally differant demon or whatever-he-is)...whatever happened to the radioactive spider? :?:

I know that magic doesn't really bother most people, I just have this phobia about magic.. 8-[

[DelBubs]

Could somone do me a favour and give a brief synopsis on what happened to Wolvie and Puck in Guernica, it would be useful?

Thanks in advance.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Could somone do me a favour and give a brief synopsis on what happened to Wolvie and Puck in Guernica, it would be useful?

Thanks in advance.

Ah....Wolvie and Puck fought Nazi's with the help of Ernest Hemingway(there was some bull-fighting in there too, as there should be), while Deathstrike joined a group of Nazi soldiers in trying to take over the city...The Nazi's were torn up pretty bad(mostly by a really peeved Deathstrike)...sorry, that's all I recall at the moment.

Dana

[Legerd]

Could somone do me a favour and give a brief synopsis on what happened to Wolvie and Puck in Guernica, it would be useful?

Thanks in advance.

Lady Deathstrike forces the mutant Gateway to send her to the place Wolverine was gazing upon at that moment, which turns out to be Puck's photo taken back in WWII. So she, Wolverine and Puck are sucked back through time. Puck regains his height since, at that time, he was demon-free (and lemony-fresh) and relives his memories with Logan along for the ride this time.
Lady D takes up with the Nazis (natch) while Logan and Eugene join the resistance. After a great deal of violence (mostly by Wolverine and Dealthstrike) and some bullfighting (by tall Puck) Gateway carries them back to the present with Eugene and Logan coming up out of the water after having the boat supposedly turned over by Wolverine's antics. Neither one remembers the trip, but Puck's photo now includes Logan. Hilarity ensues... no wait, it didn't. What the hell was I thinking?

[DelBubs]

Thanks for the run down Dana, Legard. Sounds like I didn't miss much. The whole Demon thing is ridiculous, but obviously now part of Marvel Lore :-(

[darc_light]

Sorry, I should have clarified. :oops: It was a very weird and bloody story, and the only time I lost respect for the usuably honorable Lady Deathstrike (Other than when she slept with Donald Pierce in Punisher II#34...Pierce is cool, but he's a spineless coward with no morals whatsoever.), first she joins up with the Nazis, then she "interrogates" this kid to find Logan...They didn't show what she did, but he wasn't seen again... :cry:

We all have things we'd like to forget...

[Shaman Of The Whills]

We all have things we'd like to forget...

Except for Wolverine apparently. All he ever wanted was to remember everything... oh I'm a horrible person, aren't I?

Also, which series and issues was that Guernica story?

[darc_light]

Wolverine II#35-38 , that's where the whole mess went down.