Dissed In Crayon - AF.net John Calimee Interview

[Ben]

Our very own Del Robinson has conducted a wonderful interview with former AF artist, John Calimee. You can find it at: http://www.alphaflight.net/interviews/john_calimee1.php

comments welcomed!

Ben

[JohnnyCanuck]

First Del. Great Interview.

Second I really respect Calimee's honesty. To admit he couldn't draw but did anyway. I mean let's all face it. We all would have held on to that job as long as someone wanted to keep paying for it, at what ever talent level we were presenting at the time.

Also it's sad to think that all that original art has been destroyed. Sure a lot of it was really bad but we'd all be happy to have our little chunk of Alpha Flight in our repective art collections.

JC

OT: After many months I've finally posted another pic in the fan art album

[Mokole]

Good job Del, and great answers Mr. Calimee. Thanks to both.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Just checked out the link in the "Why Pacella?" thread to John Calimee's current work. To bad we couldn't get thse issues redrawn by him properly.
His current stuff looks pretty good.

http://www.gayleague.com/studio/fanart/index.php?album=John_Calimee&zoom=600px


JC

[DelBubs]

John Calimee was a joy to talk to. His enthusiasm for comics and love of art stood out and made it all the easier to bend his ear about comics and Alpha. I admire the fella for putting up with my waffle.

[Ben]

Just checked out the link in the "Why Pacella?" thread to John Calimee's current work. To bad we couldn't get thse issues redrawn by him properly.
His current stuff looks pretty good.

http://www.gayleague.com/studio/fanart/index.php?album=John_Calimee&zoom=600px


JC

I agree, his new stuff is quite good. He admited he was not ready for the big time when he did AF, and it's too bad, as he now would be a very good choice .

Ben

[Le Messor]

Much as I hated his run on AF, I've always thought there were things he could do better than me; some of the things he was dissing about himself. In hindsight, it looked like he'd read 'How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way'.

I disagreed with much that he'd said; Mal pushed the guy off the craft so he could agonise about it later, and his crew could tell him he wasn't the hero he thought it was. Just as an example.

- Le Messor
"Don't try to have the last word. You might get it."

[JohnnyCanuck]

John Calimee was a joy to talk to. His enthusiasm for comics and love of art stood out and made it all the easier to bend his ear about comics and Alpha. I admire the fella for putting up with my waffle.

:oops: How many times we gotta tell ya to leave your waffle at home...:oops:

[HappyCanuck]

John Calimee was a joy to talk to. His enthusiasm for comics and love of art stood out and made it all the easier to bend his ear about comics and Alpha. I admire the fella for putting up with my waffle.

:oops: How many times we gotta tell ya to leave your waffle at home...:oops:

what can we say, Del's an Eggo-maniac... :D

(Okay, that was lame, even for me...)

[Obsidian3d]

Very candid remarks indeed. He seems very open and honest about his faults and short-comings. That's not something many folks are very good at (myself included). I hope he finds more success in the future.

Good interview Del.

[Powersurge]

Very candid remarks indeed! You can't help but respect his comments and self-criticism.

The question is though, if the guy was that bad -- I haven't gone through my colection to find out, I can imagine :( -- what would possess the company to put a sub-standard artitst on ANY published title?!

I mean, just look at some of the fan art that is on this site, eg. Shaman, Johnny Canuck, and I knew plenty of guys form my high school days and time amongst street people, to know that there is alot of talent out there.

I mean perspective, dynamism, enviroment, interaction between figures and environment ... a paid artist should be able to handle all of these things at a fair level of proficiency and consistency, no?

Heck, if I didn't remeber more-or-less block figures and one coour backgrounds at one point in UXM, I just might suispect a company would do such a thing in an attmept to drive a title into the ground. But then, what gives?!

[DelBubs]

-- what would possess the company to put a sub-standard artitst on ANY published title?!

This was one of the question I asked, but left out of the interview, Johns reply was

"Editors want what is best. They try to help better
novice talent get a leg up. They do it out of self
interest that one or more might develop into the next
Gil Kane or Alan Moore."

[Powersurge]

Hmm. I'd question whether or not the Editors knew what was best. I would think that what would be best for business would be to convince existing artists to apprentice new talent. Maybe getting them to do finishes and/or inks for awhile first.

Seems a nasty thing to do to a new talents reputation.

[DelBubs]

Hmm. I'd question whether or not the Editors knew what was best. I would think that what would be best for business would be to convince existing artists to apprentice new talent. Maybe getting them to do finishes and/or inks for awhile first.

Seems a nasty thing to do to a new talents reputation.
I thinl if you look at the state Alpha Flight was in at that moment, having just come out of Mantlo's run then it was a perfect vehicle to try out new talent. Both James Hudnall and John Calimee were new to Super Heroes so you weren't going to let them loose on X-Men or the Avengers.

[maniac mike]

All I can say is I'll take John Calimee over Rob Liefeld anyday! Seriously, James and Johns run on AF is what brought me back and I'm here to stay. :P

MM

[Politeym]

"As I sat in the theatre watching the movie Serenity , I wanted Josh Whedon to lose his licence to write when he had the "hero" kick a man off the rail of his craft and then shot the guy dead.... Do you know if Josh Whedon had served in War? Watched the friend next to him get his brains blown away? If he's seen the life of a man slip away due to his own hands? If he had, I doubt he wouldn't write his heroes this way. Jack Kirby fought the real deal. Tolkien knew the meaning of War. They meant it when they separated good from evil." The character in question -- Mal Reynolds from Serenity -- had about three seconds to decide whether he would risk his entire crew to save a guy he didn't know. He decided he could not. He then shot the man because under the circumstances, a quick death was merciful. Given Joss Whedon's age, I doubt he has ever been in combat, but I think John Calimee must never have even read about it. Does he actually think real soldiers never let anyone innocent die, or only killed "bad guys"? War constantly asks soldiers to do things that seem immoral. Yes, Tolkein and Kirby both separated good from evil in their work -- and unless they were insane, both knew this was wishful thinking, a fantasy. That fantasy was their response to war, but it certainly isn't the only valid response. Look at the work of director Samuel Fuller. Samuel Fuller fought in WWII and when he came out, he had no use for do-gooder heroes. John Calimee should look at Fuller's Pickup on South Street and see what he thinks of the hero of that film. Or try the work of Sam Peckinpah, another WWII vet. Perhaps Kurt Vonnegut. Tolkein's and Kirby's work is wonderful, but not every fantasy needs to be set in a world in which heroes never have to choose the lesser of two evils. Whedon's "heroes" (and Whedon never called Mal Reynolds that) are willing to make those choices -- this shows respect for real soldiers and respect for his audience. Calimee could learn from the example.

[Powersurge]

Not to defend Tolkein, but it seems to me that Gandalf, et al. sent the Hobbits off to Mordor knowing full well, or at least assuming, that they wouldn't return ... that they would die in the doing of their deed, or just die.

What makes his work fantasy, is the classic dualistic portrayal of the enemy as inhuman. In reality, one's enemy generally tends to be a man not so much unlike oneself, and not an "inhuman monster".

In the face of an enemy that is an inhuman monster even the grossest of felonies become permissable.

[JamesHudnall]

I just read the John Calimee interview and wanted to comment.

John's memory must have failed him because we did talk more than a couple of times in the phone. I have always been big on communicating with my artists. While we did not talk as much as I have with some others, John and I did have several conversations. I remember our first one, especially because he seemed surprised when I called him up and was apologetic about his art. He said he sort of fell into it and it wasn't a career he expected to be in.

Anyway, I tried to find out from him where his strengths were so I could write to those strengths. I admit some of my early scripts were Alan Moore influenced and expository, but I cut way back on that by the time the fish story came up. And part of my cutting back was because John said he wanted less detail. My concern as a storyteller, however, has always been to not forget certain details that are important to telling a story.

So sometimes I would add some details so he had an idea what I was talking about. I didn't expect him to take it literally. It was just so he would be able to visualize it.

I probably did have too many characters in some scenes, but that was because the editor Marcus McLauren, who was also new at the time, wanted that. I wanted to cut back because I knew it was hard on artists. I have a lot of artist friends, and used to see Brent Anderson all the time, so he told me what to avoid. But they wanted some stuff in the book that I felt was going to hurt it, like too many bodies in a scene.

The human eye can only process so much information for it to be effective. I have always believed that less is more.

As for his art, I was very unhappy that I was saddled with him at teh time because I felt he was not right for the book I was trying to do and wasn't experienced enough. A mark of a good artist is that he is able to be self critical. So he understands this also. But, hey, we both needed a job.

I would have loved to have worked with Lee, buit the artist I wanted on the book, that Carl Potts nixed was Hugh Haynes. I felt he could have grown into it. We a couple stories early on in Alpha Flight, but Potts felt he wasn't good enough to stay on the book. I'll never understand that. He showed the talent and was getting better.

Ah well...

[DelBubs]

Hello James and welcome to the forum. I'm kinda curious in regards the number of issues a writer would expect to have to write before he had an idea as to an artists strengths? Warren Ellis seemd to understand fairly quickly that the limitations of Stormwatch as a concept curtailed the strengths of Hitch and Neary therefore necessitating the rebirth of the book as 'The Authority'.

I think you did a number of issues of Strikeforce Morituri with John Calimee before you came over to Alpha? Did the art in those issues differ much from the art in Alpha Flight?

[maniac mike]

FIGHT OR FLIGHT?

Derek Robinson interviewed comics artist John Calimee over his "Alpha Flight" work a few years ago. A title Byrne originated, and both wrote and drew. But, even if Calimee can't touch Byrne's artistic heights on the title, how about his intriguing perspectives? Off the art board I mean….

You'll have your own favourites from this remarkably self-depracatory interview, but I think my favourite has to be this.

"As I sat in the theatre watching the movie 'Serenity,' I wanted Josh Whedon to lose his licence to write when he had the 'hero' kick a man off the rail of his craft and then shot the guy dead. With 'friends' like this, thank god for enemies.

"It plays well to the popular crowd, but it's hardly inspiring. There's nothing appealing there. Do you know if Josh Whedon had served in War? Watched the friend next to him get his brains blown away? If he's seen the life of a man slip away due to his own hands? If he had, I doubt he wouldn't write his heroes this way"

That's right, folks, Joss Whedon is a terrible writer because he Did Not Go To War. They should have used that on propoganda posters...

Still Joss, if things start heating up in Iran, there's plenty of opportunity for you to hone your writing skills.

Mind you, Calimee may have also missed that the cast of Serenity are meant to be bad guys...

Where is the wine?

This was posted over at www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

It's in the Lying in the Gutters

MM

[Mokole]

It would be interesting if Mr. Hudnall got to write AF again. I've always thought well of how he wrote.

[loki5]

Hi Del,

I read your interview with John Calimee recently, and was equally impressed with his candor, enthusiasm, and love of the comics medium. As a comic creator myself, I wanted to write him and share some of my thoughts, as well as inquire about his current freelance availability. Since I don't have his contact info, I sent you an e-mail via this forum, but I'm not sure if it ever got to you. Can you please contact me via e-mail or private message?

Thanks,
Dara

[DelBubs]

Hi Dara
I've dropped you a private message with some bits and pieces in there.
Johns candor raised a few eyebrows at certain forums. I found it refreshing.

Regards
Del

[Le Messor]

Mind you, Calimee may have also missed that the cast of Serenity are meant to be bad guys... MM

Especially since, about ten minutes before the scene in question, one of them says it literally. "Let's be bad guys."

Also, I loved Hudnall's writing of AF. He made an issue with Calimee's art (which I hate hate) one of my favourites.
('cept the way he keeps putting 'ha ha' into dialogue. That always bugged me.)

- Le Messor
"Down with categorical imperatives!"

[John Calimee]

I am reminded of a favorite commerical where the guy softly whines...

"Don' be hatin'."

Someday I'm gonna lift a beer with Rob Liefeld and trade 'worst slams ever received.' Or perhaps start a poll for 'worst moment in comic-art history... the infamous Captain America swallowed a safe pin-up... or my run on AF. (He says smiling.) Perhaps we could talk Keith Obermann into covering the event. Today's worst-person in the world...

Hi Jim. We spoke several times? My bad. We are talking some 14 years ago. My memory of the last 20 years is quite vague. The mind, and memory is very selective. The kernel of truth that generated my comment was reflecting on the 'process' by which the books were done. I doubt I offered any suggestions regarding the book as I understood plots were 4 issues, if not more, ahead of my pencils. Besides, I was under the gun just to meet deadlines, let alone distract myself contributing plot ideas. It was what it was.

I am quite pleased to see Kurt Vonnegut mentioned in this thread. May I throw in a few more 'classics' for our younger generation to feed upon. If one is in the market for conflicted heroes, I highly recommend the Hollywood Classic 'The Misfits.' Or 'Long Day's Journey into Night.' Serenity is to these films as my run on AF is to Alex Ross. Seeing how we are discussing quality in narrative...

I'm happy you enjoyed Serenity. Heck, I'm sure someone's posting on the net who thinks 'The Punisher' was great cinema as well. Don't let me stop your fun. For me, and I only speak for myself, when I watch or read a story -as someone who creates- I often find myself looking at a story from the p.o.v. of the act of creation. Not as a consumer.

It's certainly enjoyable to have a good story just wash over one's self and enjoy it for what it is. But part of my fascination as a creator is to see the structure of a story as a blank page where some slob sat up half the night hashing out what happens next. The parameters of what happens happens because the writer CHOOSES these things to happen. Mack Reynolds could have "three seconds" to work with, or 3 years. All with the flick of a pen -or eraser. As to whatever dramatic this set up later in the film...' I've seen more angst from Karl Rove on any given day. -You want genuine character angst? Watch 'The Misfits.' The varied and conflicting emotions in that film is heart wrenching. Whedon's choice of structuring that scene as he did falls flatter still when we get to the end of the movie and these oh, SOOO evil, frightful creatures are mowed down -LITERALLY- hundreds to one. Kuwait put up a better fight.

As to Mac Reynolds not being a hero. You get no arguement from me there.

My disconnect with his character is much the same disconnect I have with all the populist grim and gritty, conflicted, angry, take no prisoner, who's the hero??? narrative that runs throught Comics today. Blurred ethics consumables for a culture that reeks of blurred ethics. The shoe fits.

Let's talk about Steve Rude. That man is a god.

[John Calimee]

Many thanks for reminding me of the absurdities that are Serenity. I've been sitting up in the wee hours mixing a palette of my just arrived galena pigment (black leaded sulphate). Did you know Raphael used black leaded sulphate -and ground, clear venetian glass -cristallo- in his paintings? Anyway, it's easy to kid about my 'old' work considering I didn't learn a damn about art back in college, only to gain a great deal of understanding and means in the Arts since. Including having a fairly good idea how Jan van Eyck did what he did. -With no tempera, no less. But in the immortal words of Peter David, "I digress."

Thanks for the chuckle. Better n' coffee.

Sorry to forget Mal's name. I was too busy being afeared some Amish furniture was going to pop up in the next scene of the movie. I give them credit for dumbing down that decor. Nice set designs. But thank god they aired the film before Brokeback Mountain was released. One knows what it looks like NOW to run around in cowpoke gear. Ol' Mal would have a lot of explainin' to the missus, all dressed up like that.

Who could forget the wonder and pondering over the chick with big boots and what mysterious powers she might posess? That someone would chase her across the stars. (Farther than chasing someone from Boston to South Carolina, even.) You have to mean it to chase someone across stars, murder entire villages, etc. etc. All this over some 'mysterious' power -that turns out to be....

She fights like Kato. Ok. And she's slightly telepathic. Not in a Professor X sort of way. More in a Deanna Troi sort of way.

Now, if you put Kato and Deanna into one body, I might feel comfortable walking with him/her late at night on the mean streets of Chicago. But said person would hardly give the present Canadian Army pause, let alone an inter-stellar Federation. One laser guided air strike and 'poof.' No more Deanna/Kato. -What's up with that?

And one would think flying a space ship involves a little bit of skill in higher reasoning. At least equal to the intellectual gymnastics one would need to hail a bus. Driving in Space takes skill, even for a zombie. So what dullard of a zombie -that can navagate a space ship mind you- would fall for the old 'dead bodies on the hull' trick? What a duffus. It's hard to be afeard of stupid critters. The 'walking the gauntlet scene' in Pitch Black was rivetting. One ached for the characters to survive the passage. This dead man float didn't. I cared more dropping a scoop of ice cream from my cone as a kid.

Ok, so maybe it wasn't about the 'powers'. It was about the SECRET. Yeah right. Like George Bush loses any sleep that you know about the NSA. What self respecting Inter-stellar government would tremble over something as inept, dullard zombs???

Ooooh, bad zombies. They're not so tough. Any millitary worth it's salt would just set up assault lines in places where's there's only one point of entry. Dullar zombies pile up at the door at the rate of 100's to 1.

Although the 'one' was touching. -Perhaps the only likable character in the film and he dies for the angst of it all. So touching.

Next thing, you guys'll be telling me the Fantastic Four was a good movie.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Galaxy Quest. Now that's good story telling.

[MistressMerr]

Gonna have to disagree with you like woah, Mr. Calimee. Serenity's definately one of the better flicks of last year


She fights like Kato. Ok. And she's slightly telepathic. Not in a Professor X sort of way. More in a Deanna Troi sort of way.

Now, if you put Kato and Deanna into one body, I might feel comfortable walking with him/her late at night on the mean streets of Chicago. But said person would hardly give the present Canadian Army pause, let alone an inter-stellar Federation. One laser guided air strike and 'poof.' No more Deanna/Kato. -What's up with that?

You can't launch a laser guided air strike if you don't where the hell she is.


Driving in Space takes skill, even for a zombie. So what dullard of a zombie -that can navagate a space ship mind you- would fall for the old 'dead bodies on the hull' trick?

How did they not look like a small Reaver ship? I'd have been fooled, if I didn't know better.


Like George Bush loses any sleep that you know about the NSA. What self respecting Inter-stellar government would tremble over something as inept, dullard zombs???

Seriously, how can you even compare the two? Was the NSA killing planetfuls of people, creating a race of killers that went on to slaughter hundreds more?

Serenity had a lot more to it than you give it credit for. It wasn't just some slapped-together space movie. It's about a group of people treading the middle ground between absolute control (the Alliance, at the centre of everything), and absolute chaos (the Reavers, out in the black, just as bad as the Alliance, just in a different way). Simon and River parallel this somewhat. She's nuts, and he's uptight, but he was around first and has more reach, so he wins. They are the embodiment of this spectrum of chaos/control, and between the two of them, everything they touch turns to ****.

But yeah, tangent much, the point of Serenity is that everyone has to live somewhere between these two extremes.

ETA: Although I'll definately agree with you about Galaxy Quest. ;)

[syvalois]

Allô M.Hudnall and M.Calimee,

I liked to read both what you said about your time with AF. I thought there was a lot of potential in those stories and also in the drawing, but it was not there yet like it should be.

I did not followed your perspective career after AF, but for your drawing Mr. Calimee, it look very good now, the same powerful simple lines, but with backgrounds and better proportions.

As for Serenity, The Misfits or Galaxy Quest, I can't say anything since I never seen those movies. But I read Lord of the Ring and I liked the black and white view because it was set in a magical world where everything is bigger than nature. It's a metaphore on many levels and it's why it's good.

As for super heroes comic books, we are supposed to believe it's here and now in our world except there is people with super-powers. The black and white look of thinks usually don't fit well for me for that style. The all good know-it-all superhero just frustrate me and the all bad, all evil supervillain is boring and sometimes even insulting to many people. Remember the time where every russians where villains unless they pass to the west came to live in the US, to live the live of the free?

I like better the grey area without going to the grim and gritty some goes making it artificially dark without real reasons.

As for heros, I will let the artist Jean Giraud AKA Moebius talk for me (sorry for the bad translation) : "My personal idea of a hero is not a perfect being, but someone that is inproving (going toward perfection)"

[Politeym]

I'm not offended that Calimee didn't like Serenity. I liked it a lot, though I don't feel it was perfect. What offended me was the suggestion that writers who actually fight in wars would put good on one side and evil on the other, like Kirby, and make the path of righteousness difficult but never hazy. I offered Vonnegut, Fuller and Peckinpah as war veterans who did not do that, not as Whedon's artistic equals. But I think Whedon is good at what he does, and part of what makes his fantasy worlds interesting are tough choices. Remove those impossible choices, you do not improve the work -- you damage it.

Now Calimee's more recent posts suggest that he likes Vonnegut. (As well as Eugene O'Neill and Arthur Miller, though these men weren't war vets and never wrote about war, guns, or anything else we're talking about here.) I take it Calimee is drawing a line between art and entertainment. Calimee can ask for pure heroism in entertainment while accepting anti-heroes in art -- I deeply disagree, but the notion doesn't offend me.
It's just the notion that fighting in a war would bring Whedon (and presumably everyone) around to this opinion that ticks me off.

[John Calimee]

A final salvo on the subject of Serenity.

I mentioned it in the interview in its relation to comic books. Whedon is writing comics now, part of the "if you can't beat the movies, be a movie" syndrome running through comics now. Paper movies. Ugggh.

Wheither or not one wants to tag Mal the 'hero', he is the central character with whom the writer wants us to have an empathy. I sit watching a character WRITEN to kick someone off the edge of a craft -and shoot them in the head. Well, my empathy went sailing out the window at that point.
It's the same type of character garbage one finds in Tom Cruise 'romance' movies, where I sit pondering, "Why should I care? I don't like either of these people. It would serve them right to die a lonely death."

A character moving towards perfection is well and fine but it cannot be to a moral standard lower than one is willing to go. Osama Bin Laden is, was 'moving toward perfection', at least in his own mind.

I am not advocating that heroism is a narrow spectrum of absolute good and absolute evil. Good storytelling is exactly demonstrating the struggle a character goes through making moral choices towards a good. Where writers have moved into the blurred lines of anti-heroes and the like, it works best when EVERYTHING about the story is as equally complex and nuanced. Where complex and nuance IS the subject of the story. This film has none of the complexity seen in Doctor Strangelove and if one isn't willing to write in that direction all the way, it's bad writing to write it but a hint of the way. Superficial things unnecessary to the movement of story should be dropped. Nothing about how the story hinged on the shooting scene. All it did was take me out of the story. That Whedon would be so cavalier to structure his story to include the shooting scene suggests to me that he lacks a certain gravity toward the subject. War, or any other life experience -say, a family member being murdered- would color his experience enough to approach the subject with real depth and gravity, ala Vonnegut. Or not go there at all.

-But enough on that. I'd rather talk about good storytelling.

"I, Borg" was such a brilliant bit of storytelling. The introduction of the Silver Surfer in the FF. Ditko and Lee's Spiderman, particularly the issue where Spidey frees himself from this mammoth weight. The Dick van Dyke episode where Laura gets her foot stuck in the tub. That's good storytelling. These stories suck you in from the first moment and hold you straight to the end. There is clarity, structure, wit, and a marvelous economy.

Making a comic like-a-film is putting style far ahead of substance. Writers and artists should be interested in speaking to the human condition -with clarity, structure, wit and economy. Word balloon counts shouldn't matter. Pin-up shots shouldn't matter. Panel grids shouldn't matter. New school, old school shouldn't matter. Make the reader care.

If you haven't seen The Misfit, Galaxy Quest or Long Days Journey into Night, do yourself a favor. Run to a rental store. You'll be very glad you did. Quality. Quality. Quality.

[DelBubs]

Hiya John, glad to see you finally managed to get on board. I'm not going to pass an opinion on 'Serenity', not having seen it. I have it on disk, but haven't felt the urge to actually watch through it yet.

So following on from our convo the other night, how far did you get in figuring you Renaissance conundrum?

[John Calimee]

Hi Del,

So far, things are going well. Time will tell. Nothing was done straight away during the renaissance era. To achieve realistic effects, they relied upon the interaction of 3 or 4 layers of translucent paint. Only with the 4th layer can one know for sure. The newer pieces are entering stage 2.

Next month I'm off to Ghent. -The comparison will surely humble me.

I'm in for a restless, but hopefully happy and fruitful summer. When I paint I long for the drawing board. When I'm at the drawing board I feel I should paint. By the end of summer, I should know where I stand between the two. My heart of hearts is in comic book narratives. I love telling stories with pictures. But I'm no writer and I resist commiting to projects. I'm not looking for a publisher or project. I'm looking to meet my long lost Joe Simon. Someone who spurs creative interaction. Someone who is posing questions rather than spitting out answers. I don't care for a creative process where everything is known and the only work left is to flesh it out.

The industry is in such a weird state. I watch crop after crop of young hopefuls lined up at conventions with portfolios in hand. Fresh faces chomping at the bit to work in an industry with no job security, no benefits, no health plan and no guarantee of work or salary. From middle class, 1950's standards, it's down right shameful. Wal-Mart does better by it's workers and Wal-Mart is routinely chided for setting a poor example. -I can't imagine things from the Editorial side of things. Middlemen who swing from the noose of coporate executives who no nothing about the art form and everything about the difference between a one percent profit and two.-Still, Comics are part of the mercurial Entertainment industry. There's money in them thar hills. At least, that's what investors invest in, while consumers consume.

The art of the story keeps the engines burning. Drawing issues fade away more and more by the day. I spend my free time analyzing the narrative structure of good stories. Even a good commercial catches my eye. -What did they lead with? How did they finish? What turns in the in-between?

I marvel at how well BattleStar Galactica is being told. -Paper movies bore the hell out of me. What one gets in a single issue, Kirby would resolve in 3 pages.

[DelBubs]

You keep doing this to me John. You chuck a name into a convo that has me googling like a good un trying to find out more. To show how ignorant I am, I'd never heard of Joe Simon until you mentioned him in your previous message, but did manage to find my way to the following (http://www.simoncomics.com/). Now I'm off to see if I can find any examples of his scripting methods.

If I'm reading you correctly, you'd prefer a writer who was less definitive in his description of a panel, allowing the artist to be more ambiguous in his renditon of it?

[Le Messor]

A final salvo on the subject of Serenity.

You wish. 8)
You and I seem to agree on many things, and disagree on many things. Fantastic Four is on the edge of 'good movies' for me; the very bottom rung of a comic book movie I'd actually own (and do) on purpose.

I love Galaxy Quest.
I've tried to watch Dr Strangelove twice. I fell asleep both times.

I, Borg? That episode, along with 'Best of Both Worlds 2', 'Unity', 'Unimatrix Zero', 'Survival Instinct', 'Collective' and 'The Scorpion 2' gives me the same problem with the Trek crew you have with Mal. Every time they meet the Borg, they go on about how they're free to kill the Borg since they're no longer individuals but 'dead' assimilatees, and it's impossible to ever free them.
Yet, in each of these episodes, one or more people are freed, if only in their dreams. In one case, an entire cube was freed at once.

But; Serenity. The debate is caused by this: I hated your run on AF. I think you know that. You seem to have even less respect for it than I do (I've always thought you could do some things well, better than I've ever been able to), but I hated it.
I love Joss's stuff.

So, a creator I'm not that fond of (caveat: I think your recent stuff looks good) dissing one of my favourites? Who'm I gonna side with?
Viewed another, more personal way: I've never had an letter published in AF. But Serenity? I'm on the freakin' DVD!
Which do you think gets more of my loyalty?

Well, Alpha actually...


I mentioned it in the interview in its relation to comic books. Whedon is writing comics now, part of the "if you can't beat the movies, be a movie" syndrome running through comics now. Paper movies. Ugggh.

Agreed. Movies, prose books, and comic books, each can do things the others can't, and can't do things the others can. Trying to make one into the other is just wrong.


Wheither or not one wants to tag Mal the 'hero', he is the central character with whom the writer wants us to have an empathy.

I do see Mal as the hero. Flawed, yes. As for kicking that guy off the ship--when he was stupid enough to leave the safety of the safe in the first place--horrible. But he's still the hero to me. Far more heroic than Seagle's Alpha Flight, or Millar's... anything. I can sympathise with him on many levels (though this is not one of them).

The only thing he did that really put me off was shooting the horse! Agh!
(And, as to explaining things to Mrs Reynolds, well, he'd have to survive a meeting with her long enough to explain anything. But since the last time she saw him he was wearing, well, nothing, I don't think he'd have to explain his clothing choices.)


A character moving towards perfection is well and fine but it cannot be to a moral standard lower than one is willing to go.

In today's 'moral' climate, is there a lower than we're willing to go?
<-- said with despair.


If you haven't seen The Misfit, Galaxy Quest or Long Days Journey into Night, do yourself a favor. Run to a rental store. You'll be very glad you did. Quality. Quality. Quality.

I enjoyed one of those; the other two are contemporary realism, aren't they? Serious dramas? I don't do reality. It's not my field.
And, our tastes are very, very different. Though we both like Trek (I'm including Galaxy Quest here).
Steve Rude? Didn't he do the Madman? That explains your AF art...

Yeah, I went there. ;)
Sorry, I have a mean side.

- Le Messor
"Each of us bears his own Hell."

[John Calimee]

Messor,

In the immortal words of Joni Mitchell, the greatest singer-songwriter in the second half of the 20th century:

"Where some have found their paradise,
Others just come to harm."

Words of wisdom worth pondering.

Del,

Simon's 'The ComicBook Makers' is a great read. Another high recommendation for that one. It layed the foundation for the brilliant novel, Cavalier and Klay. -another good read.

My problem is I am a romantic at heart. As a kid, there was something about Stan Lee's "Bullpen" b.s. that just melted my heart. He had a way of making every reader believe there was this wonderful place in Manhattan, where artists and writers sat shoulder to shoulder bouncing ideas about, working AS A TEAM, creating an art form that was more collaboration than assignment. A bit of this was true, but most of it was a fiction. The production team worked in office. I'm sure they had a grand time. But the core creative talent were never part of the illusion Stan Lee scripted in his monthly soapbox advertisements. Lee and Ditko had a very confrontational relationship. Jack worked in his own mind -away from Marvel central- in a universe of his own making.

In the early days of comics, Simon and Kirby had that 'bullpen' like relationship. They did share an office, shared ideas, shared in everything from plots to spotting blacks. It's the way I imagine Pixar being run. Crazies in the office, being pros while dreaming like kids. -That's what I'm looking for. Not that I expect smooth sailing. Ditko reached a point where I think he could stab Lee in the back with a cleaver. Ditto, Kirby. Conflict is to be expected. No one thinks alike. Look at me and Messor. Strangelove a snoozer... and the F.F., ok????????????????? Still, the idea of product being a collaboration from ground zero to the page heading off to the printer. That sounds cool to me.

I envy Steve Rude finding Mike Baron. To paraphrase Mike, he's often said to me that when I find the right situation, I'm going to shine in it because there IS something there. I simply haven't found that place.

The closest I got was the last issue of the Badger. That was a very nice one shot story. Everyone shined. I did Mike's plot as written, save a few little touches that added to the story. -For instance, there is a page where the Badger and Santa are flying over Africa and the Badger pulls out a gun and shoots a bunch of Poachers. As every character in the book up to that page was white, I didn't want to illustrate the Badger suddenly killing a group of black men. (I didn't care for him doing it at all. But I digress...)

So I made a point of drawing the men in sillouette, and the only fully illustrated bad guy as white. Then to soften the page, I added a montage at the bottom of the page with Badger facing off with a Baboon. Santa setting presents down for black children in their huts. Things like that.

Mike picked up on the extras touches I added and re-wrote the dialogue, making brilliant additions. The icing on the cake: Bill Rheinhold saved my ass and made me look better by spicing up a few of the characters and teaching me a thing or two about the necessity of exaggeration. In the end, it was MORE than originally planed for because everyone was willing to keep it fluid. No part of it was 'done' until it was done.

Changing the subject... looking back at Simon and Kirby era Kirby art, it is so obvious Jim Steranko's style is a dramatic lifting of Kirby art from that era. -Quite expanded upon, yes. But an homage all the same. No one speaks of this.

[Le Messor]

Messor,
In the immortal words of Joni Mitchell, the greatest singer-songwriter in the second half of the 20th century:
"Where some have found their paradise,
Others just come to harm."
Words of wisdom worth pondering.

John,
I'm sorry if I came across as really nasty in my last post. I'm not gonna make excuses, but I am sorry if I did.

Then again, "They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot." ;)

FF was just okay, no more. Though I think the Roger Corman version could've made a better movie.


My problem is I am a romantic at heart. Stan Lee's "Bullpen" b.s. just melted my heart. He had a way of making every reader believe there was this wonderful place in Manhattan, where artists and writers sat shoulder to shoulder bouncing ideas about, working AS A TEAM. No one thinks alike. Look at me and Messor.

Strange thing is, I think you and I think alike in many ways. I'm a romantic at heart, and lament the lack of heroism in a lot of current 'heroes'; (apparently lamenting is something I do. I read it in the paper once.) I've said that about v2 Alpha many times; one of the things I couldn't stand about the series was that they almost never did anything heroic. They never helped anybody. I wanted HEROES!
And Ultimate characters are so sleazy, I wouldn't want to know them in real life, much less read about them in fiction.

You drew heroes for us, Mr. Calimee.

I like it when I can tell the difference between them and the villains. I've walked out of movies (on DVD) where I couldn't, and won't watch one which threatens to end up that way. (I won't give specific examples, 'coz I'll probably insult somebody's favourite movie doing it. Which makes you a lot more courageous than me right about now.)
I might not always see heroes in the same places as you, but I do want to see them.

- Le Messor
"It takes a big man to admit he's wrong. But it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man."
- Jack Handey

[syvalois]

Good storytelling is exactly demonstrating the struggle a character goes through making moral choices towards a good. Where writers have moved into the blurred lines of anti-heroes and the like, it works best when EVERYTHING about the story is as equally complex and nuanced.

Oh, you said it so much better than me. It's what I wanted to say.



If you haven't seen The Misfit, Galaxy Quest or Long Days Journey into Night, do yourself a favor. Run to a rental store. You'll be very glad you did. Quality. Quality. Quality.

Just checked what those movies was an dI just found out that I did saw Galaxy Quest. It's about the only movie where I found Tim Allan funny.

As for The misfits, I did not expect this summary :Roslyn divorces Ray in Reno then meets widower Guido. He likes her but introduces her to cowboy Gay and those two fall in love...

Mostly because I did not read it correctly and thought there was gay cowboys in it. For a 1961 movie, I thought it was pretty much daring.:P

As for all the Star trek reference, I watched it a little but the technobabble just lost me. To much of it when the story could have been a lot better and complexe without as much. I found many episode where more about explaining a technology that did not exist than human interactions and choc of values.

[White Knight]

It's a funny world.

The Dream Queen sequence within Alpha Flight was always one of my favorites. I didn't even realized John Calimee was reviled for his art in that run.

Anyways, that series hold a special place in my nostalgic youth, and even though John Calimee destroyed alot of his originals, I was able to pick up a page from his inker! The original art in all it's glory can be seen here:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=187577&GSub=22461

or http://cafurl.com?i=1634

Enjoy!

and John, if you are reading this, I enjoyed your art in that run.

\\/hite Knight

[Le Messor]

Somebody pointed out to me that Mark Bagley had done an issue of AF.

When I checked it out, I could see his nascent art style being formed. But I could also see why I'd maybe never noticed it wasn't John Calimee.

So now I have to wonder how much of what I hated about that run was Calimee's fault, and how much the inker's? Certainly, I'm giving Calimee a lot more benefit of doubt than I used to.

- Le Messor
"Ah! I see you have the machine that goes 'PING!'."
- Monty Python

[syvalois]

So now I have to wonder how much of what I hated about that run was Calimee's fault, and how much the inker's?

Shade of Mignola/Talaoc story... Even if Mignola was not at the top of his art, it's obvious by the covers that the inker destroyed his pencil.

For Calimee, I never notice.