X-Men 183 - Diamon Lil

[Ahab]

Is that Diamond Lil on one of the first pages of X-Men 183? The outfit looks right...see First Looks and judge for yourself...

[DelBubs]

Certainly looks like her (http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/022206/images/xme183p4.gif).

[Mokole]

Certainly looks like her (http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/022206/images/xme183p4.gif).

I can't think of anyone who it could be but Diamond Lil. So she's part of the 198 with Aurora. Wonder if anyone else of AF note is.

[cmdrkoenig67]

You have been warned....
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SPOILERS AHEAD...
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Diamond Lil is among the refugees at the X-mansion(she is no longer a prisoner of Weapon X...YAY!!!!

Link to her upcoming cameo appearance in X-Men#183

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0602/16/xmen1834.htm

Dana

[-K-M-]

Posted already, but you guys have hawkeyes
1. http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1192

[cmdrkoenig67]

Oops! I didn't see that...Sorry.

Dana :oops:

[suzene]

So....what happened to Neverland, then?

I guess if Leech was one of the mutants that lost his powers, there wouldn't have been anything holding back those those who kept their powers after D-day, and Lil is more than capable of taking apart a few 'bots just by her lonesome.

Suzene

[darc_light]

I see Erg :D =D> He's alive!!! [-o< \:D/
But, dear God is that guy in silver with the arrows and weapons actually Scalphunter! The most ruthless of the Maruders, the one who killed all seven (?) of Annalee's children, then killed her! And hundreds of other Morlocks! :twisted: :twisted: Why would they save his sorry can?...Let the humans have him I says...

[cmdrkoenig67]

Leech still has his powers and is living in the refugee camp outside of the X-Mansion(he appeared in issue #2 of X-Men: The 198). It seems all(?) the mutants from Neverland somehow ended up free and staying at Xaviers.

Dana

[MistressMerr]

As for the depowered ones, Mesmero has been seen out and about, living his own life again as well.

[MistressMerr]

I don't have a problem with Scalphunter being there, it's a refuge for ALL mutants. What I DO have a problem with however, is ERG having a drink with ARCLIGHT. WHAT THE HELL, PEOPLE.

[HappyCanuck]

Ranks up there with Marrow trying to hook up with Gambit a few years ago. Maybe, like them, Erg and Arclight came to a reconsilation - tho I doubt it.

Oh well, I'm just glad Erg is still alive. of the 'classic' Morlocks, he's still my favourite.

[HappyCanuck]

Hasn't Mesmero been killed, like, 8 times already?? Geez, he's getting to be as bad as Mac...

[MistressMerr]

He hasn't been killed since his resurrection in AF vol.2.

[MistressMerr]

Are he and Callisto the only ones left, or am I forgetting someone?

[HappyCanuck]

Erg, Callisto, Caliban and Leech are the only ones that come to mind who have survived the two Morlock Massacres.

[HappyCanuck]

He hasn't been killed since his resurrection in AF vol.2.

He as in Mac or he as in Mesmero?

I remember reading somewhere that Mesmero died at least once in WX (I don't have the series, so I can't corroborate - as I said, it's what I heard)

[MistressMerr]

Mesmero. All that happened in Weapon X was that he lost his powers due to this confidence thing and they sent him to Neverland.

[darc_light]

Arclight too!? :twisted: The only Marauder I can even vaguely stand is Scrambler, mainly because he looks like a goofy kid (you should see his pic in the Official Handbook Update '89 #6... :lol: ) He's also the youngest of the group, but he sure ain't innocent...but he's nothin' compared to the others, especially Scalphunter and Sabretooth...

Tar Baby and Ape were shown for one issue of Weapon X, then killed off...Why would you bring back characters after 20 + years just to kill them off in one issue? :twisted:

Several other Morlocks also survive, Caliban, Thornn, Feral and Skids (Yes, Skids was once a Morlock)

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Realm/5113/mmembers.htm

That site needs major updating, it still lists Erg, Tar Baby and Ape as dying in the flood or on the Hill, and lists Masque as dead. I read a theory that the Masque Shatterstar killed was just a look-a-like, not the real Masque, which would explain his/her survival.

There may be others who got out in time, I'd like to see Bliss again, though I sincerely doubt it :cry:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/blissmorlock.htm

And Masque may still be alive, I'm not exactly sure what Callisto did to him/her? in X-Treme X-Men...

[darc_light]

I posted pics of Erg and Scrambler, and a sketch I did of Bliss (As Jean Grey...Masque, need I say more...) under "Everything Else".

If they have to save Scalphunter and Arclight, they could at least keep them locked up, Scalphunter roaming the X-Mansion is just too dangerous. And to top it off, not only is he carrying weapons, he can form weapons out of his own body...don't they have containment cells in the mansion?

[kozzi24]

I thought--and could be wrong--that Mesmero had died in Alan David' run on Uncanny a year or so prior to Weapon X, and his resuurection from that death was never revealed.
Corroboration, anyone?

[kozzi24]

Aren't most of the Mauraders clones?

Should a clone Scalphunter be penalized for what another clone Scalphunter (or the prime being) did?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Erg, Callisto, Caliban and Leech are the only ones that come to mind who have survived the two Morlock Massacres.

You know what I've thought was funny?...Sunder was also a long-time survivor, but fell into limbo and ended up on the dead list. He was shown to be a part of the Muir Island X-Men and was shot(to death?) by the Reavers, but he showed up(alive and well) a short time later as one of the mutants watching the Muir Island Gladiator games...he then vanished from any book and was presumed dead....maybe he was just a continuity glitch, since he has been listed as a casualty of the Reavers attack on Muir Island?

Dana

[cmdrkoenig67]

He(Mesmero...LOL) was supposedly killed by the Dark Riders in Uncanny X-Men, but it was revealed in Alpha Flight Vol. 2...that he hypnotized them(and apparently us, the readers) to belive he had been killed.

Dana

[kozzi24]

Wasn't there another Alan Davis run AFTER Vol 2? They fought the skrulls in Davis' second run.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

If they have to save Scalphunter and Arclight, they could at least keep them locked up, Scalphunter roaming the X-Mansion is just too dangerous. And to top it off, not only is he carrying weapons, he can form weapons out of his own body...don't they have containment cells in the mansion?

Gathering them at the mansion was allegedly a voluntary thing. They chose to go there, and therefore it must be treated as a haven. They knew the risks when they said that it would be a safe place for all mutants. To imprison people who voluntarily came to you would only undermine intermutant relationships, not to mention cause many additional problems that they can hardly handle right now. Imagine if those mutants then got freed and specifically as a result of that were upset and decided to take it out on all the rest of them. Additionally, I offer these quotes from the 198 to further cement this:
Valerie Cooper: This is NOT internment. This project is intended for the protection of mutants and operates on a strictly voluntary basis.
Kitty: So everyone's free to come and go?
Valerie Cooper: Not exactly, Kitty. We have some control.
Kitty: Concentration camp.
In a sense they are already imprisoned and being constantly guarded by giant sentinels provided by ONE. Members of the 198 who might attempt to cause problems have already been dealt with by use of force, even further damaging the trust of their shaky alliance. Another quote, just to further counter why it would be inappropriate to imprison specific mutants for past wrongs:
Valerie Cooper: Are you aware how many of the mutants in this camp have, at some time, been suspected of homicide?
Beast: All of them?
Its this kind of thinking of "lock up the dangerous mutant" that has lead to the rise of the Brotherhood, Magneto's war and even the House of M event and fallout. Several members of the X-Men have even been party to murder on several levels. Should they as well be locked up? To do any of this would be a clear violation of basic human rights, and while speaking in the context of the American based Xavier institute would be a deprivation of the due process rights provided by the constitution. And as for the carrying of weapons and the necessary restriction of those weapons, most of those mutants are living weapons, and to suggest that mutants should be locked up as a result of their weapon based powers reminds me of a scene from the first X-Men movie, the exchange between Jean Grey and Senator Kelly, as she reminded the Senator that the wrong driver behind the wheel of a car can be dangerous, and that while we liscence people to drive we can hardly liscence them to live. If scalphunter's ability to carry weapons (a right provided by the constitution as well, as might be noted) or produce weapons makes him a candidate for isolation and special monitoring, should not also Cyclops, head of this little operation, be set aside? After all, we saw what he could do to a sentinel in Astonishing X-Men 8. Wolverine and Beast also are natural weapons, and psylocke is without a doubt a very powerful weapon, not to mention the rest of the psychics. My point in all of this is that once you begin limitations of people based on their differences or due to a history of discrimination, things can get very iffy.

[kozzi24]

[i]If they have to save Scalphunter and Arclight, ...that once you begin limitations of people based on their differences or due to a history of discrimination, things can get very iffy.
Very well thought out and defended post! =D>

[darc_light]

Beast is a weapon? Anyway, I agree with you on the trust thing, if they start locking up mutants who come to them, they'll stop coming.

The few of the 198 I know of are dangerous, and some are wanted by the authorities

Litterbug, one of the 198, a former Chicago Morlock, killed a few police officers (In self-defense), and aided in the destruction of the Chicago Sentinal plant and who knows how many of it's employees, so he has to be wanted by the govt.

Peepers is or has been a professional criminal.

Erg can fire very destructive blasts from eye, the one with the patch, but I doubt he has a criminal record, though he did help kidnap Power Pack for Annalee after her children were murdered, by Scalphunter.

The problems I see with Scalphunter are 1. He's a mass-murderer, he's been doing this since WWI, when he killed three of his own officers. Scalphunter hasn't killed to protect himself or others like the X-Men, he killed for pleasure (Wolverine probably has too, I'll give you that) and money, and he enjoyed it all (So did Arclight, but I'm focusing on Scalphunter right now). Were talking cold-blooded, intentional murder of innocent people, running in the hundreds.

2. I've been told, (whether or not it's true I can't say), that the Marauder's clones are inhabited by the spirits (or whatever you want to call them) of the originals...Transmigration of the soul? I can't remember the term...If it is the original, they have every right to hand him over to authorities. If he's not, you're absolutely right, they have no right to punish him for someone else's crimes, a clone of Scalphunter, who has a different essence, a different mind, would not be responsible, even if he thinks he is, and "remembers" what the real Scalphunter did. The Weapon X People "remember" a lot of things that never happened. If Scalphunter had been insane, he's simply needs mental help, like at Ravencroft. Kyle and Wyre both needed major mental help and never got it, and look at Kyle now...

3. He can't part with his natural weapons any more than a master of Karate can hand over his skill,so that can't be helped. The Right to Bear Arms also carries a responsibility. But even with [i]The Right to Bear Arms there are limitations, dangerous criminals and convicted felons are stripped of that right. Just as you can't yell fire in a crowded theater you can't knowingly allow weapons in irresponsible or dangerous hands. If I give a man I know is a criminal a gun, and he goes out and shoots someone, I'm an accomplice. If I know that someone has commited a crime, I witnessed it, and I don't inform or otherwise help the authorities, I'm an accomplice.

Killing Scalphunter would be wrong, it's murder to just execute a man without a fair trial (and many would argue any execution is morally wrong, but I won't get into that), especially when he comes to you for help.

The authorities could have him put in the Cage with other Super-Villains.

You can't just let a murderer go, especially a serial killer, just because he's a Mutant, that's reverse discrimination.

[darc_light]

I just remembered, it's not real... Scalphunter doesn't exist. I have to learn not to get all hyped up over fantasy. :oops: #-o


"Oh my goodness! It's that diminutive renegade mutant...Weapon X-Tra Short! Come to savage my kneecaps, have you?" Donald Pierce to Logan in Weapon X I#2 (AOA)

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Beast is a weapon?
Most certainly so. He has claws and fangs, and has recently become more and more aggressive in fighting in the field, perhaps even losing some measure of control (for one incredibly clear example of the new 'savage' beast, Astonishing X-Men 10 in which he tries to shred the danger room persona. Admittedly this may be because he felt that it was a non-human enemy and could therefore be more violent towards it, but given what Frost had already said at that point, it was quite clear that the danger room had become sentient and that he and the rest of the team regarded it as such.
The few of the 198 I know of are dangerous, and some are wanted by the authorities
Exactly. Alot of them are considered dangerous, some of them are considered vigilantes, and some of them actually are dangerous. However, they are being monitored by the government as they are, so being wanted by the authorities is really of little value, considering the fact that they are kind of in possession by the authorities at this point. Also, pointing out criminal records of such doesn't really provide much in the way of proving danger... after all, nearly all of the heroes have at some point broken major laws. Even Mac himself is a thief, Gambit is a thief, Wolverine is a murderer, Emma Frost was, well, Emma Frost... I mean, they're all guilty of something on some level. The fact is that the government was well aware of this when they allowed the Xavier mansion to become a refuge camp for the remaining mutants, although their agenda isn't exactly clear at this point.

The problems I see with Scalphunter are 1. He's a mass-murderer, he's been doing this since WWI, when he killed three of his own officers. Scalphunter hasn't killed to protect himself or others like the X-Men, he killed for pleasure (Wolverine probably has too, I'll give you that) and money, and he enjoyed it all (So did Arclight, but I'm focusing on Scalphunter right now). Were talking cold-blooded, intentional murder of innocent people, running in the hundreds.
I'm not arguing for absolution of Scalphunter's past crimes and misgivings, like I said I'm arguing for a rule of due process. However, given the current circumstances, that hardly seems a reasonable thing to attempt nor does it appear to be on the government's agenda. Perhaps in time they might be able to take care of situations like that, but for the meantime there is no reason to simply lock him up given the fact that he has fled to the mansion for safety. Quite frankly I find the action wholly irrational given your argument that he would even bother to turn to the mansion if he is such a capable fighter, so perhaps the error is the coordinators choice to even put him in such a circumstance. As such, he should be treated the same as the rest of the mutants within the internment camp. But then again I think this whole camp situation is silly on everyone's parts, in and out of the universe.

The Right to Bear Arms also carries a responsibility. But even with The Right to Bear Arms there are limitations, dangerous criminals and convicted felons are stripped of that right.
In mentioning the right to bear arms I merely meant to allow it as a passing argument that one might argue, although I never intended to pursue such a course. I also doubt that the thought would even pass through Scalphunter's mind, as he would much more pleasantly disregard the law entirely. I'm only playing devil's, no not even devil's more like little imp's, advocate.

The authorities could have him put in the Cage with other Super-Villains.
Although this would be expressly against their offer to shelter any mutant who so desired it. I understand the argument that doing so would be for the greater protection of both the world and of those in the camps, but their offer stands as it is, and to submit one individual to such imprisonment would naturally submit them all to it. As to the cause of this, I think that its actually become quite evident in the issue of 198 that mutants are beginning to stand up for each other, even in doing the wrong things. If they had even dared to imprison him, there might have been riots on the mutant scale which could have devestated their attempt to work with the mutants. With just a simple little thing a group of mutants were suddenly blasting away at sentinels once more, just for wanting to leave the compound. Imagine if they started locking people up, even for valid reasons. The Sentinels had valid reasons to attempt to restrain those who tried to escape and suddenly even the innocents were flocking to their defense.

You can't just let a murderer go, especially a serial killer, just because he's a Mutant, that's reverse discrimination.
Yes, but he is (and I hate to use this as it makes me feel somewhat lame) innocent until proven guilty, despite whatever images might be attached to his character. Once again, I never said let him go (especially under the argument that he is just a mutant), I said put him through due process of the law. And as is evident, none of them are going anywhere at this point.

[darc_light]

Emma Frost, how quickly I forgot Mrs. Frost, yes, she's killed too, for money, power, or just whim..., she changed, who knows, maybe Arclight or Scalphunter could change, but it wouldn't mean they would/should be free of consequences for what they did.

The state of the U.S. govt towards mutants has little to do with justice, nor does the typical citizen have much sympathy for mutant life. Kitty Pryde remarked that most people thought the Genoshan Mutants "Got what they deserved"( X-Men Unlimited #36/1), and the "Muties" title is full of people killing mutants with no consequence (From America to Africa to Ireland to Japan, so it's not just the U.S.), it's open season on mutants.

When I get hyped-up I don't think, I run purely on emotion, if they turned over Arclight and Scalphunter to the police, they'd be dead before reaching jail, or the police would...Also, as I said, I need to be more aware of the line between fantasy and reality, and not to stress over the bad things that happen in fiction, when I have enough stress from real life... :oops:


Banshee said, regarding Donald Pierce: "He's a cyborg with a madman's hatred for mutants. To him, the only good mutant is a dead mutant." to which the Cheyenne Forge replied. "My ancestors knew the type..." Uncanny X-Men #262.

When that "Type" gain power, whatever idea they represent, the results are very, very ugly...

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Emma Frost, how quickly I forgot Mrs. Frost, yes, she's killed too, for money, power, or just whim..., she changed, who knows, maybe Arclight or Scalphunter could change, but it wouldn't mean they would/should be free of consequences for what they did.
Well I'd be hesitant to go just on that basis... seeing as she hasn't actually changed... but nevertheless, the acceptance of her new image within the world (with the excpetion of Nick Fury at the very least) seems persuasive of the possible image of redemption for some of these criminals...

However, that brings up an interesting question... how much of the changes in the characters we've known for some time is actual development and alteration and how much is simply external from the actual world (wanting to capitalize on a villain's character thus mutating (no pun intended, really) into a hero, although I don't expressly intend to point the Juggernaut as one of these individuals)? Alot of the times its just due to poor research on the characters, and then after the longtime fans have pointed out the error of ways they have to make up for it with ridiculous retcons... so also to slide this back a little more towards the topic at hand... if Lil or any other former members should step forward into more of a speaking role, what changes will they undergo and will they be based on poor research or actual experiences? Obviously there still has to be a little dealing with the whole Neverland, and speaking of which (I don't remember this being mentioned) what is up with Madison Jeffries lately? We haven't heard from him since the Neverland incident... also, does anyone think that they're actually going to explain what happened between Neverland and this or will they just forget to give an explanation?

(Also, minor question, since I don't want to be repetitive saying things that are being said elsewhere, we have two threads on pretty much the exact same subject... should we move the discussion to X-Men 183? Just thinking...)

[Ben]

(Also, minor question, since I don't want to be repetitive saying things that are being said elsewhere, we have two threads on pretty much the exact same subject... should we move the discussion to X-Men 183? Just thinking...)

I can merge the threads if that's what you guys want.

Ben

[DelBubs]

Might be an idea Ben, merge threads and lock the dead un.

[Le Messor]

Wasn't there another Alan Davis run AFTER Vol 2? They fought the skrulls in Davis' second run.

He's just had about a years' worth with Claremont. I don't remember any skrulls there.
Or was that his third?

(Alan Davis? Now there's I guy I'd love to see on a new AF series. Does that sound sarcastic? It isn't.)

- Le Messor
"Duck who fly upside down have quack up."

[Ben]

Threads merged. Carry on Canada!

Ben

[darc_light]

I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here, since I haven't been keeping track of Neverland or Weapon X for a while (Other than checking to see if Kyle's still alive), but I remember that when Cable? and some others attacked Neverland and overthrew the Director, Agent Jackson then double-crossed them, had them captured and their memories wiped of any knowledge of the Weapon X project or Neverland.

So, is it possible that Diamond Lil' and the others were "released", and their memories were wiped so that they couldn't tell what had happened?
I don't know why they'd be released, but I've only seen how Weapon X was run under the Director, maybe Brent decided to be a bit kinder, but I sincerely doubt it...

Who else from Neverland was there?
Maybe they're not really who they appear to be... 8-[

"All that is not Brood is chaos! It is the void! How can you desire that?" The Brood Empress to Hannah Conover.

[kozzi24]

Wasn't there another Alan Davis run AFTER Vol 2? They fought the skrulls in Davis' second run.

He's just had about a years' worth with Claremont. I don't remember any skrulls there.
Or was that his third?

(Alan Davis? Now there's I guy I'd love to see on a new AF series. Does that sound sarcastic? It isn't.)

- Le Messor
"Duck who fly upside down have quack up."

Prior to Claremont's return, Davis had a stint as writer., and IIRC, Mesmero died in that run.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Maybe all the former Neverland prisoners are now brain-washed sleeper agents, that can be activated when ever Jackson wants?....or maybe(hopefully) not.

Dana

[darc_light]

That would make sense, didn't The Director have ideas about "utilizing" mutants "for mankind's benefit?" ..."tools for today" he said. Maybe Brent is keeping with the schedule and today is now. 8-[
Weapon X: The Draft-Wild Child




"I've never encountered structures... of such sophistication and complexity. Where did they come from? Who made you?" Pierce to Deathstrike

"Would you believe...I made a deal with the Devil?" Lady Deathstrike

"There can be but one Devil in your life, Milady...ME." Pierce

[darc_light]

I am a hypocrite, here I am griping about the X-Men not throwing Scalphunter and Arclight to the lions, when just a few days ago I was griping about about Weapon X and what's-her-name tracking down and killing Northstar and Aurora in the AOA...They weren't exactly saints either... they did carry out Apoc's orders as members of the Mutant Elite...:oops:

"I am more disturbed by the debate between us. Do we start establishing parameters? That this life is worth saving but that one is not? In doing that, I fear we will lose what we are." Storm, on the debate over whether or not to kill Hannah Conover in Brood: Day of Wrath #2

She has a good point, one I'd forgotten.

[JackFrostUK]

In all this House Of M/M-Day events, what is Mr. Sinister upto? Is he considered a mutant?

Is the Scalphunter in 183 the same Scalphunter who was Sinister's lackey in Tieri's Weapon X series?

[darc_light]

Sinister, to the best of my knowledge, is a Mutate, a human mutated by artificial means. He allowed Apocalypse to transform him from a human into...whatever he is now...

As far as I know, there's only one Scalphunter, and he works Sinister.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Sinister appeared in the special House of M edition of the pulse, in which he received a half page article on his activities in the science section. The article is titled "The Shallow End of the Gene Pool?" and is written by Dr. Henry Pym.

In the world of biogenics, Nathaniel Essex is both rock star and pariah. He is the rock star whose years-long drug binge has left him a shell of the performer he once was, begrudgingly respected, but with more than a hint of regret. He is a pariah whose everescalating theories on the acceleration and resultant gentrification of the Homo Mutatis gene pool has made him untouchable among academic circles.

Little is known about his whereabouts, less about his activities. For the first time in ten years, Essex has made a public entreaty, contacting this writer after he'd read my report in the New England Journal of Medicine concerning the possibilities of cellular miniaturization as it pertains to the agricultural fields, as well as population control and military applications.

That is a short excerpt from the article that I copied down, as my scanner is malfunctioning at the moment. Later, when I've got it working, I'll scan it in to give you the full thing. It also features an interesting picture of Essex in non-altered actual (as in live action, not drawn) form, giving a lecture in Prague in September. The rest of his story is continued in Cable and Deadpool #17, which I currently do not have available to me.

[JackFrostUK]

Was this the freebie Pulse newspaper? I have it somewhere, will take another look.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

If it wasn't free, it was only around a dollar in price or so. But most probably yes, it was free. It had something akin to 'The House of Magnus' Big Day' on the cover of it.

[JackFrostUK]

Yep, that's the one. Will dig it up. Didn't notice Essex last time.

Did Alpha Flight appear in House of M at all?

[-K-M-]

Did Alpha Flight appear in House of M at all?

Only Sasquatch made a one page cameo as one of Magneto's guards.

[rplass]

Well, there was also the Northstar/Aurora cameos in the Secrets of the House of M One Shot and New X-Men: Academy X #16. Also, Flashback appeared in New Thunderbolts #11. The Sasquatch cameo was in House of M #6.

Love,
rplass

[MistressMerr]

For anyone not picking up the issue:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/MistressMerr/OMFGYAY.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/MistressMerr/OMFGYAY2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/MistressMerr/OMFGYAY3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/MistressMerr/OMFGYAY4.jpg

Oh man, those four panels made me far happier than anything has any right to.

[JackFrostUK]

thanks for those panels. the art seems a bit funky, like the art from x-treme x-men.

Lil didn't get any lines :(

[darc_light]

The woman in the blue hat with the feathered boa is another Morlock, Beautiful Dreamer :D More Living Morlocks!!! \:D/

[MistressMerr]

Yeah, I was really pleasantly surprised to see she made the 198 cut, she's been around for decades and had, like, no lines. :D

[JackFrostUK]

I didn't buy the 198 sourcebook. Does anyone know if there is a list online of the 198s?

[darc_light]

I'd like to see that list as well...

If all of these Morlocks are turning up alive, maybe there's hope for Bliss after all... [-o<

[Shaman Of The Whills]

I didn't buy the 198 sourcebook. Does anyone know if there is a list online of the 198s?
Well, various places have variations of the list, it really isn't hard to compile... here is one pretty full list of survivors:

Alchemy
Amelia Voght
Anole
Archangel*
Arclight
Aurora
Avalanche
Beast
Beautiful Dreamer
Big Bertha
Bishop
Black Box
Blindfold
Bling!
Cable
Caliban
Cannonball
Catiana
Celeste of the Three-In-One
Collective Man
Colossus
Cyclops
Dark Beast
Dazzler
Diamond Lil
Domino
Dragoness
Dust
Elixir
Emma Frost
Empath
Erg
Ernst
Evangeline Whedon
Exodus
Fever Pitch
Firestar
Flatman
Forge
Franklin Richards
Gambit
Gateway
Glob Herman
Havok
Hellion
Hisako Ichiki
Husk
Icarus
Iceman
Jamie Braddock
Jazz
Joanna Cargill
Justice
Karma
Kiden Nixon
Kylun
Lady Mastermind
Leech
Lifeguard
Lila Cheney
Lorelei
Litterbug
Living Monolith
Loa
M
Madison Jeffries
Madrox the Multiple Man
Magma
Mammomax
Martha Johansson
Marvel Girl
Match
Mentallo
Mercury
Micromax
Mikhail Rasputin
Mindee of the Three-In-One
Molly Hayes (Bruiser)
Mr. M
Mystique
Nightcrawler
Nocturne
Northstar
Omega Red
Onyxx
Outlaw
Peepers
Persuasion (Purple Girl)
Pete Wisdom
Phoebe of the Three-In-One
Pixie
Prism
Psylocke
Quentin Quire
Quill
Random
Rhapsody
Ricochet
Rockslide
Rogue
Sabra
Sabretooth
Sack
Sage
Scalphunter
Scrambler
Sebastian Shaw
Selene
Shadowcat
Shatterstar
Shinobi Shaw
Silver Samurai
Siryn
Skein
Sketch
Tabitha Smith
Squirrel Girl
Storm
Strong Guy
Sunspot
Surge
Tempo
Thunderbird
Trance
Toad
Ursa Major
Wallflower
Warpath
Whirlwind
Vanguard
Wither
Wolf Cub
Wolfsbane
Wolverine
X-23
Alexander Lexington
Apocalypse
Banshee
Doorman
The Ghoul
Indra
Johnny
Layla Miller
Marrow
Meld
Mr. Immortal
Negaosnic Teenage Warhead
Nezhno
Ozymandias
Perfection
Pulse
Skids
Swordsman
Tito Bohusk
Vulcan

The first 133 (in straight alphabetical order) were from the 198 files, the rest were from various other sources, although some of these individuals may in fact be depowered and simply showing remnants of former powers (Marrow, perhaps) and others may be dead (Banshee).
*Also, there seems to be confusion over whether or not Warren Worthington was indeed depowered.

Hope that helps.

[JackFrostUK]

That really did. Thanks :)

Didn't Sack get killed in Tieri's Weapon X?

Is there actually going to be only 198 mutants left?

From the 198 Sourcebook it lists only 135, with the extra ones from other sources its 153.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Didn't Sack get killed in Tieri's Weapon X?

Is there actually going to be only 198 mutants left?

From the 198 Sourcebook it lists only 135, with the extra ones from other sources its 153.
Nope, he survived. And no, 198 is not the actual number of remaining mutants, it is just a term coined by both Marvel and the 198 mutants themselves as a roundabout number. The 198, from my understanidng are just a specific 198 mutants who will have survived the purge that we have thusfar been familiar with... they also didn't publish all of them in the 198 files so that there would still remain some mystery to certain elements (whether or not certain mutants made the cut, what the identity of the Genesis villain will be, who the Ghoul of Gen M is)...

[JackFrostUK]

My guess on Ghoul ID is Sabretooth.

He hates morlocks.
He kills for fun.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

My guess on Ghoul ID is Sabretooth.

He hates morlocks.
He kills for fun.

I wouldn't place my bets on that. The Ghoul has a particular hatred of mutants, and seems to want mutantkind itself eradicated. That doesn't seem like a goal Sabertooth would reasonably have. Also, given the images that have been shown of the Ghoul don't really resemble the Sabertooth, I don't think there is really enough to support that. Plus, this guy seems to have something in particular against Sally Floyd, and what he wants really badly is to get his story published, something that would also seem radically uncharacteristic of Sabertooth. While not ruling him out, I'd be remotely disappointed if it was Sabertooth. Also, the deaths haven't exactly been his style. He also wouldn't be the kind to hide and then brag about it, I think he'd be much more prone to bragging about it in public. The ghoul codename also seems unrelated.

Additionally, I'm not even sure that we do have any familiarity with the ghoul, and they may be hiding his identity and appearance so as to be revealed in the end with a shock value of grotesqueness...

[JackFrostUK]

I hope it ends well. It's been a good series.

Sally Floyd will be seen in Civil War: Frontline after Generation M.

[darc_light]

Negasonic Teenage Warhead is, in fact dead, killed in the assault on Genosha.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/negasoncxm.htm

Of course, as always, death can be overcome in the MU.

I wonder where Shinobi Shaw is? I like him, he's funny :wink:

Let's see Arclight, Prism, Sabertooth, Scalphunter, Scrambler (That goofy lookin' kid again :) )...quite a few Marauders :( .

Aww crap!!!! Selene still has her mutant External power, I was hoping she'd lost them, and withered up and died, the wretched old hag. :twisted:

I'm also it dissapointed to see Arkady still has his powers, I always thought Omega Red would be better off without his "Death Factor", but then, without them he would be easy prey...Why do I have sympathy for him and not Scalphunter? Arkady Rossovich is supposedly a serial killer...I guess it's two reasons,
1. He has to drain the lives of others to survive.
and
2. He's just so cool looking, and hasn't killed or tortured anyone I like yet.

I also like Vermin, but he was clearly not in control of his actions when he went on his killing spree, I doubt he even understood that others could feel and suffer.

Kyle, when he went, had absolutely no control either, and now he bareley has a mind or personality of his own, you just point him at a target, and he goes blindy out to kill.

I guess I'm just a bad person
:oops:

[Le Messor]

Mammomax

Does she have the powers that name makes it sound like she has?

I thought every woman in the MU had that... asset...

Also, you forgot Princess Powerful (unless you listed her under real name?) from Runaways.

- Le Messor
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
Airplane 2

[MistressMerr]

Mammomax is a giant elephant guy, and Princess Powerful goes under the name Bruiser.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

I hope it ends well. It's been a good series.

Sally Floyd will be seen in Civil War: Frontline after Generation M.
I was actually very disappointed to read that report, only because it really took away some of the risk for me... I wasn't looking for her to die, but I thought that she could really find herself in a position of risk at the hands of the ghoul, but now we know she's going to survive.

Yeah, Princess Powerful is also known by her codename of Bruiser and is listed by her real name, Molly Hayes. I was really glad that they didn't depower her, because the Runaways have already taken a big enough hit with their losses... I look forward to her kicking some butt in Civil War.

Mammomax is a fictional mammoth-shaped mutant with respective strength, and hardiness who exists in the Marvel Universe. He is part of a relaunch of a variety of characters as part of the Decimation storyline which followed the House of M. His first appearance was in X-Men v2 #161.

[DelBubs]

I actually went out and bought comics today for the first time in just over a year. #183 was one of those I grabbed. Most telling point to me in the whole book, how Diamond Lil was one of the small group of Mutants (mainly Morlocks/Maurauders?) who seemed keen on joining Apocalypse, even before the hunger set in.

[kozzi24]

Lil has been thru a lot, with imprisonment, beaten by her husbande's constructs because he was controlled by mutant-hating humans, then seeing so many mutants inexplicably depowered. Would it be out of character for her to view the X-Men's acceptance of the sentinels as a surrender, and wish to be allied with people who would not expect her to take a further role as a perpetual victim?

[DelBubs]

My thoughts exactly Kozzi. I enjoyed the fact that she had a little bit of character developement just in those few panels. Kinda a shame that Apocalypse didn't somehow make Maddy one of the Horsemen. Husband and wife re-united :-)

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Admittedly the plot, from my understanding, is a reasonable one, as are the choices made by characters in the book, but personally I kinda wish this whole Apocalypse thing had come later. He has always seemed too grand scale for me, and coupled with the House of M, Decimation and Civil War thing, I just can't take him as a storyline. While I should know better that the masterminding villains don't just lay back in their private little lairs as they watch events unfold until their time comes around, I wish Apocalypse had stayed down a bit longer, so we could stop all these crazy storylines and factions, to get things under control a bit. Due to finances and lack of patience, I'm going to have to drop all X titles aside from Astonishing probably. To keep up with anything else is just too taxing.

[DelBubs]

I would have to agree with you on that one. Marvel do tend to be over salting the pot in regards to Big Events. So much so that the storyline in #183, which could have been a big event is slightly overshadowed with all the other stuff coming up.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

I would havve to agree with you on that one. Marvel do tend to be over salting the pot in regards to Big Events. So much so that the storyline in #183, which could have been a big event is slightly overshadowed with all the other stuff coming up.
I am really, really hoping that Civil War is, as has occasinally been said, the last Big Event for a while... don't get me wrong, love big events to death, loved the old Secret Wars stuff, loved all those crossovers and stuff... but cramming 3 GIANTS right in a row, year after year after year is just way too much. I can't follow, I can't afford, and rushed out in such quantity I don't enjoy. A big event 5 years from now? Sure, I'm on board. Make it a 1 year event. But especially running up against DC's big events (which should be taken into account), this run of stuff really starts making me feel like I need to limit myself to one company's titles... and with Alpha Flight off and Marvel trying to sap me of all my money... DC starts looking good. A lot cheaper at least.

[kozzi24]

one of the most long term aspects of
lil's character that would play into her current ellegiances is that in her beginning she tried the 'right' route with dept.h and got cut loose and left directionless when the program was terminated. She was described (by her future husband) as 'not a bad person, but with a chip on her shoulder. it's actually quite believable in terms of characterizaion that
lil would join a non-heroic faction.

i personally see the apocalypse story as a major arc in returning the character, but one that is an 'event' more isolated to the x-men rather than the larger marvel universe. i also think it is good editorial vision that his return would be now...it does make house of m more of a major event because the event has repercussions. i am actually hoping to see a major attack on the x-men from villains they are housing, along the lines of 'hey, they're taking everyone in...what a great chance for payback.'

[Phil]

i am actually hoping to see a major attack on the x-men from villains they are housing, along the lines of 'hey, they're taking everyone in...what a great chance for payback.'

Keep reading The 198.

[JackFrostUK]

May have to pick this up and 198.

Do Marvel plan to release a 2nd volume of the 198 Sourcebook?

Offtopic but have any Alphan's appeared in the Xmen movies?

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Do Marvel plan to release a 2nd volume of the 198 Sourcebook?

Offtopic but have any Alphan's appeared in the Xmen movies?

As to the first, I have not heard any word on a 2nd volume of the files, although I would kinda expect it.

I have yet to see anything that is Alpha Flight related in the movies, and there isn't really too much room for doubt. Most of the cameos thusfar have been incredibly obvious as to their identities (Siryn and such), and the only other time where there is a significant cameo opportunity is on the computer screen of X2, upon which a list of mutant names appears. To the best of my recollection, none of those names were Alphans, although I would guess that there might be a very veiled cameo to a member somewhere within the saga. So far there are no Alphans set to appear as significant figures in the third movie.

[DelBubs]

Do Marvel plan to release a 2nd volume of the 198 Sourcebook?

Offtopic but have any Alphan's appeared in the Xmen movies?

As to the first, I have not heard any word on a 2nd volume of the files, although I would kinda expect it.

I have yet to see anything that is Alpha Flight related in the movies, and there isn't really too much room for doubt. Most of the cameos thusfar have been incredibly obvious as to their identities (Siryn and such), and the only other time where there is a significant cameo opportunity is on the computer screen of X2, upon which a list of mutant names appears. To the best of my recollection, none of those names were Alphans, although I would guess that there might be a very veiled cameo to a member somewhere within the saga. So far there are no Alphans set to appear as significant figures in the third movie.

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=341&start=0

Took a while to find that one.

[darc_light]

I no longer even try to keep up, I don't even enjoy most titles anymore, they're too bloody and depressing. :( I usually only buy back issues from Mile High Comics, and only then when they have a guest character or group that interests me, I would never have picked up Weapon X other than to see Kyle again, I've already stated how I feel about X-4...but it had the Brood...I mainly buy older comics with less darkness (Not that they didn't have real dark stories back then, The Mutant Massacre, Inferno :-& , Galactus eating 80 billion Skrulls, and so on, I avoid these like the plague). I just usually try to get stories that aren't depressing (Not an easy feat).
Every time I read X-Factor # 142, by the end, when Val's reading the letter Kyle left forgiving her for everything she did to him, I cry like a baby...

As for Horsemen, I had some ideas myself:

War-Lady Deathstrike (She is a Samurai, a trained warrior, and she's one of the best at what she does...)
Famine-Wither (Kevin Ford)
Pestilence- Bile?
Death-Omega Red (Two words; "Death Factor")

I just realized, even if they were to execute Scalphunter and Arclight for their crimes, they have endless clonal bodies to hop back into... :evil:
Life ain't fair

[darc_light]

What is Val Cooper doing with the 198? Is she plotting something? I wouldn't put anything past her... 8-[

And what is the effect of M Day on a purely physical mutation, say, if someone has wings, or spider legs? Could they still use them?

I just thought of another interesting thing about the Marauders, How many times would they have to die to pay for what they've done? All of them except Sabertooth have died and come back...I may not be thinking very fairly on that point either. :-k

[Le Messor]

I have yet to see anything that is Alpha Flight related in the movies, and there isn't really too much room for doubt. The only other time where there is a significant cameo opportunity is on the computer screen of X2, upon which a list of mutant names appears. To the best of my recollection, none of those names were Alphans.

I thought the file names 'Department H', 'Beta Flight', 'Gamma Flight' and 'Alpha Flight' on the desktop in that scene might've been in some subtle way related to our team. 8)
Also, the coffin labelled 'Roger Bochs' and the other one with a dead Alphan (I can't remember who), though you can't see the labels. There was a list somewhere.


And what is the effect of M Day on a purely physical mutation, say, if someone has wings, or spider legs? Could they still use them?

The M Day thing removed the mutant gene from people's bodies, so I figure this thing would get rid of physical mutations as well. Nightcrawler would look human. Blob would look skinny, but with the same amount of skin as before, which, eww... (Okay, this one actually happened, but I'm suddenly remembering the end of _Austin Powers_)
Though I've always wondered that about power dampeners, like on Magneto's island in UXM 150.

- Le Messor
"Earth first! We’ll log the other planets later"

[MistressMerr]

The M Day thing removed the mutant gene from people's bodies, so I figure this thing would get rid of physical mutations as well. Nightcrawler would look human.

Not necessarily. Some depowered did retain their physical mutations but lost their powers. Which just needlessly complicates things (like what about people like Jazz, whose only mutation is his blue skin).

[HappyCanuck]

The M Day thing removed the mutant gene from people's bodies, so I figure this thing would get rid of physical mutations as well. Nightcrawler would look human. Blob would look skinny, but with the same amount of skin as before, which, eww... (Okay, this one actually happened, but I'm suddenly remembering the end of _Austin Powers_)
Though I've always wondered that about power dampeners, like on Magneto's island in UXM 150.


Actually, it's been shown that Blob and Archangel have had their powers removed. Blob is now a small guy in a LOT of skin, and Angel doesn't have wings anymore. Power dampeners, as far as I've seen, only work on energy-based/psionic abilities (the only reason I say this is because I've only seen them on psychics and energy-based mutants - phyisical mutants generally were bound in a way their physical mutations didn't work.)

[darc_light]

Confusing :-s They could have taken this much further, Albinism could be considered a "mutation", and the Atlanteans, Titans, Deviants and Eternals are all offshoots of humanity, they could be considered "mutants" if you go back far enough, and I think the Skrulls are also mutated from a different form, along with the Dire Wraiths. If Mutation is Evolution wouldn't everyone have turned into amino acids or something... :-k

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/primeskrull.htm

If someone were to have a non-human physiology due to artificial genetic engineering and not the X-Factor Gene, they'd stay the same, right, like the Savage Land Mutates. Haven't seen Barbarus in a while, but then, I don't buy many new comics anymore...

That's why Kyle still looks like Nosferatu and not Kyle Gibney before he was infused with Wyre's DNA. (He's a natural mutant {contradiction in terms?}, but much of his mutation has been influenced by outside sources, the Secret Empire, The Weapon X Program....Has his personality changed any? It was the X-Factor Gene that made him naturally agressive, but it was amplified by various groups experimenting on him....Of course, he's also been brainwashed several times and hasn't had a "Normal" life since he was a young teenager...)

[kozzi24]

were abgels' wings GONE, or just shrivelled up and featherless?

[HappyCanuck]

From what little I saw, gone with a severe case of molting. Mind I don't have the actual issue, and only saw the promo art, so I'm not taking any credit in case I'm wrong.

[MistressMerr]

Seeing as how Warren has his wings over in New X-Men and that he was in the 198 files, I say Generation M Archangel is just a ruse to lure out the killer of depowered mutants.

[HappyCanuck]

while I can see that, HOW would they do taht? his old metallic wings would make sence, but it's hard for Warren to hide his wings...

[MistressMerr]

Not sure, I guess we'll have to wait for the last issue of Gen M. Maybe he's using an image inducer, or maybe it's a shapeshifter posing as Warren?

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Not sure, I guess we'll have to wait for the last issue of Gen M. Maybe he's using an image inducer, or maybe it's a shapeshifter posing as Warren?
Whoa, clever! If that isn't the case, they should certainly make it so... talk about a great way to fix up this whole 'is he or isn't he' mess... personally I hope he retains his mutant power because now that its played out I've become disillusioned with the whole depowering thing, mainly because they hardly cut anyone of actual relevance...

[darc_light]

Too true, I'd like to see Wolvie' or Creed de-powered...That would be interesting...

Do the entire Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club still have their respective powers?

And having both Beast and Dark Beast retain their powers I don't like, it's a bit much... :roll:

[Barnacle13]

See now that is just piss poor! They'll keep around an alternate mutant smurf, but won't give a tried and true team of Alphans a chance. I didn't even know Dark Beast was still around. Shows how outta touch I am!

You'd think Scarlet Witch's reality altering powers would have been better placed removing the folks who weren't from this reality. Too bad for Ravage 2099 he hadn't made the reality jump. I'm sure the 198 world coulda used another feral. I bet she didn't effect Rocket Raccoon or Howard the Duck either and they're right now poised to come in and clean up the whole mess.

[darc_light]

Howard the Duck is not a mutant, he's an alien from the extradimensional planet of Duckworld...So he has no mutant powers to loose. His "abilities" are a dirty sense of humor and a mastery of Quack Fu.

QUUUUUAAAACCCCKKKK-FUUUU! :lol:

I hear Squirrel Girl is on the 198 list, at least, according to Wilkipedia, if you can trust them...

Now, if someone has two heads, and gets hit by Wanda's little trick, would they be two people with one head each or one person with one head? This storyline is so...difficult... :?

I guess you're right, I shouldn't blame Wanda, she can't help it, so I'll blame Pietro instead... :twisted:

[darc_light]

Wait, is Aurora in the 198? If so, is she still running around with the Director? :?:

[DelBubs]

Aurora is one of the 198, but she left the directors side long ago. I can't remember the full details, but I don't think it was a cordial parting of the ways. The director is left with only Maddy for company.

[JackFrostUK]

Off topic a bit: I heard Rob Liefeld is doing a high level project with a top writer. I really hope it's not Alpha Flight!! :(

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Too true, I'd like to see Wolvie' or Creed de-powered...That would be interesting...
I wasn't really pushing for that, especially given that loss of power would mean death. That wouldn't be cool or interesting, we've already seen too much of that. And plus, taking away powers from Wolvie has already been semi-done before with the post-Fatal Attractions arc. I was really more hoping for Storm.

[Mokole]

Off topic a bit: I heard Rob Liefeld is doing a high level project with a top writer. I really hope it's not Alpha Flight!! :(

I highly doubt it. News that's positive about Alpha Flight is pretty hard to come by.

[darc_light]

I actually didn't consider the fact that Logan losing his powers might kill him, which is funny because that's exactly why I wanted Selene to lose her powers, so she'd dry up and blow away... :twisted: Logan's got to be over 150 years old, he'd age to death right there. I don't want that, I just wanted to see how he would be as a "Normal" man. :-k
Sabretooth I could live without... :wink:


Selene; I'm not even sure why I hate Selene, other than the fact that she's an evil sorceress who worked with the demon Blackheart, and I think she was involved with killing the Hellions somehow, I've never actually read a single issue with her in it....But I do have that distate for demons...


Hmmm, if the Sugar Man hadn't been "killed" by Callisto, (I still don't think he could die so easily), I wonder what he would look like now...I keep getting this notion that he's the AOA's version of Forearm or Barbarus...Just a lot more evil.

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Sabretooth must ultimately die at the hands of Wolverine. So it is written. He has fauxkilled him enough times that it would only be fitting if the final, true, absolute, definitive, undeniable, irreversible final kill came from Wolverine. Also, the reason why I thought about Wolvie dying as a loss of powers is actually a direct result of one of the first lines of House of M 8, when Emma Frost quickly explains it and Kurt pops off to find him.

As for the complaints about Alternate Reality people being uneffected by the Scarlet Witch's removal of the mutant genes, a few possibilities that I have explored and for the most part rejected (although a half-shaaked form would certainly do the trick):
1. The Scarlet Witch's magics apply only to a certain 'frequency' of the characters... the magic of 616 is tied inherenetly to the mana pool of that universe exclusively, and thus only would effect those beings who were of the same universal origin. This of course has already been proven incorrect, as House of M applied to those same individuals, and it seems reasonable to say that all things that applied to the residents of 616 House of M should also be suspect to the Decimation.
2. Those beings from alternate realities are not, in fact, mutants in the true sense of the word. Perhaps they do not in fact possess the x-gene, which is what Wanda regards as a mutant (clarified because technically Hulk, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Captain America and various others are technically genetically altered 'mutants' without an x-gene). This of course has no real evidence to support it, and probably a handful of various little references to reject it. Still, a possibility.
3. In the Decimation, Wanda selected those mutants that would survive the purge, and they are not, in fact, a simple representation of the 'probability' of Wanda's magics failing as many have theorized. Nocturne, for instance, may have been spared as a direct result of the fact that Scarlet Witch herself feels some minor, as yet unexplored love for Nocturne, as she is a child that Wanda never got to have. This could even be justified as an element of Wanda's subconscious mind, which has influenced her in the past. When she says "No more mutants," she may in fact be thinking "No more mutants except..."

Of course, in my mind, Marvel at this point is not organized enough to actually have really thought this out clearly enough. They really seem to be working things as they go along without really looking to possible consequences or working out there actual plans. The very fact that there is so much confusion over what the effects of 'removal of the x-gene' are is a clear enough sign of this, not to mention the constant contradicting reports issued, not just between members of the company, but even on a monthly basis by a single individual. They really need to sit down again, assign one person to oversee the whole entire universe of Marvel, and in grand epics like this, say "What exactly do we mean, depowered?"

[darc_light]

You're probably the only person who could oversee something like that.. :wink: It's a plateful, and with everything in disarray it would take a lot of time getting everything back together. With added elements like Apocalypse, the Ghoul, Colossus and other dead people coming back and all the other in-plots swirling around plus those from before (How did all those people get out of Neverland?) It has to be a pain.

I have another idea about Neverland, though I think someone else already stated this; Maybe with only 198 Mutants left, Weapon X folded, no use dominating mutants when they've apparently gone the way of 8-tracks and vinyl records.


On a somewhat unrelated note:
I'm kind of hoping that there won't be a family reunion between Sebastian and Shinobi Shaw...I'd hate to see Shinobi die...(That in itself probably dooms him, my favorites almost always die...) :cry:

[Shaman Of The Whills]

You're probably the only person who could oversee something like that..
While I fully understand that that was meant as a humorous, perhaps even sarcastic comment, I'll respond anyways. That would actually be an awesome job to have, and really, a geekyfanboy is the perfect kid for that job... actual understanding of whats going on, devotion enough to coordinate all the efforts... and yet not able to **** things up for other people... yes, a good job indeed. As for people qualified for that job, actually I think some of the honchos who've been over at DC have been quite good at that lately... Geoff Johns I think is the person who is acting the closest to that function right now, and he (or whoever else is actually responsible) has done a marvelous (no pun intended) job with it... Marvel is doing it on some levels right now, but not to a grand or accurate enough scale... really, what they need... oh, I'm going to hate myself for this... is a Watcher...

It has to be a pain.
This is actually why I think it has to be a fanboy... someone whose purpose in even having the job is to make things better for himself and for other fans... (note: this is also why I like JW work... very fan pleasing... fastball special anyone?) the whole thing would just be a joy to me! I'd love it! Besides, its what most fans sit around doing anyways... heck, I mean really, the person in charge could just sift through message boards like this one and be like "Hn... messed up here... hey look the fans offered a solution for me!" or even test the waters... sign up and just start talking... "Hey guys, what if they brought the multiverse back how crazy would that be?" Mr. Quesada! Anyone! Gimme a call! I'll do it! Minimum wage! Seriously! I'll even just be a research/coffee boy... call meeee!

I have another idea about Neverland, though I think someone else already stated this; Maybe with only 198 Mutants left, Weapon X folded, no use dominating mutants when they've apparently gone the way of 8-tracks and vinyl records.
Well, they haven't entirely been eliminated as we've seen in recent issues of Wolverine... and Weapon X still seems to be something more than even that... also, with the various connections to previous non-mutant attempts to gain better human weapons, I'd guess that they wouldn't give up so quick anyways... but I'm also interested to see where they're at right now, and also how much connection they have with ONE, with the current state of SHIELD/SWORD and such... I don't know, I think there are some possible lines there... nothing I could say definitively at this point... but the name Weapon X just sounds cool, so I expect that we'll have to hear it again many more times...

I'm kind of hoping that there won't be a family reunion between Sebastian and Shinobi Shaw...I'd hate to see Shinobi die...(That in itself probably dooms him, my favorites almost always die...)
Well, assuming that they stick generally to what they've said thusfar ( :lol: haha haha), I expect we shall be seeing Shinobi again soon... but I wouldn't really expect him to be too much dying... part of the whole point of Decimation was to limit the number of faces on the scene, and to have it therefore be so much bigger of a deal when a character gets taken out... I also see the 198 files as somewhat of a guideline of upcoming character appearances and involvement, kind of a "Hey, here is a who's who so you remember when we cameo/develop them"... if he was going to die, I also don't anticipate he would be included in the files (Ex: Banshee)

[darc_light]

O:) I wasn't being sarcastic, sometimes it seems only the fans have all the information on hand (Or amongst contacts ). and the time to research it...

An example. Like I've said before, in Marvel Comics Presents #52? Wolverine spoke about Kyle's "old man" and how he'd learned to control his animal side, implying he knew him well, and in X-Factor Sabretooth seemed suspiciously interested in turning Kyle to the "Dark Side" as it were... ("Kyle, I am you're father... :shock: "NOOOOOOO!!!!" ) but nothing more was ever said of it...

MU is just full of loose ends, cancelled storylines and forgotten plot twists

Of course, Sabretooth never did the Darth Vader impression...To Kyle, now he did think he was Logan's daddy for a while.
Speaking of daddy's, maybe it should be Shinobi Leland instead of Shinobi Shaw...

Thanks, I know I talk too much...

[Shaman Of The Whills]

Ah! If Sab was indeed WC's father... UNCLE LOGAN?!? Haha... now that would be something fun. Something fun indeed. Of course who knows... maybe WC is Dog! Haha, oh Marvel and goofy random plot twists... you slay me... you slay me...

Speaking of slaying, awesome new banner. Love it. Shaman is ripped! And I'll keep my mouth silent on Tally.

[JackFrostUK]

What was the relationship between Sabretooth and Wildchild in AOA? Were they related?

Cool new banner. Where is the art from though?

[syvalois]

Cool new banner. Where is the art from though?

It's from a cover of the French comic book translation. At the time, they where putting many titles into 1 book and an artist, usually this one called Frisano, did a new cover.

you can see here they talk about it : http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=226&start=75

[darc_light]

In the AOA, Sabretooth first met Wildchild in Alcatraz, Kyle had been confined there for attacking Holocaust, and had eaten his last three cellmates, so when Holocaust caught Creed trying to protect some human kids from Apocalypse's Infinites O:) he had him thrown in with Kyle, hoping he'd be killed...They fought for three days and nights until Kyle accepted Sabretooth as the "Alpha Male" then they broke out and joined the X-Men...(Sabretooth being kind, now that's bizarre!)

As far as I know they aren't related at all, Victor said it was the first time he'd laid eyes on Kyle. {Age of Apocalypse One-Shot #1} :-k

It's hard to tell, in X-Factor they were really making Kyle out to be Sabey Jr., it was kinda hinted in Marvel Comics Presents, but the Alpha editors said he was definately not Creed's son and Weapon X never seemed to mention it, as far as I know. One of the people at the Wildchild "Child of Darkness" message board said she'd read somewhere about a another Creed (not Graydon)...
It's all up to the writer's whims..

[JackFrostUK]

In the AOA, Sabretooth first met Wildchild in Alcatraz, Kyle had been confined there for attacking Holocaust, and had eaten his last three cellmates, so when Holocaust caught Creed trying to protect some human kids from Apocalypse's Infinites O:) he had him thrown in with Kyle, hoping he'd be killed...They fought for three days and nights until Kyle accepted Sabretooth as the "Alpha Male" then they broke out and joined the X-Men...(Sabretooth being kind, now that's bizarre!)

As far as I know they aren't related at all, Victor said it was the first time he'd laid eyes on Kyle. {Age of Apocalypse One-Shot #1} :-k

It's hard to tell, in X-Factor they were really making Kyle out to be Sabey Jr., it was kinda hinted in Marvel Comics Presents, but the Alpha editors said he was definately not Creed's son and Weapon X never seemed to mention it, as far as I know. One of the people at the Wildchild "Child of Darkness" message board said she'd read somewhere about a another Creed (not Graydon)...
It's all up to the writer's whims..

Maybe Kyle is a clone. Having 50% Logan/50% Sabretooth ala DC's Superboy? Don't put it past the House of "Ideas"

Also I bought Alpha Flight #120 at the weekend in London. It's bagged with a supehero registration form and a AF poster asking to sign up. Anyone got this?

[Ben]

I lost the bag and the form for mine, I guess if you filled it out and sent it in you wold get some kinda of a license saying you were a super-being. I still have the poster somewhere. I should track down a copy of that with all still intact. Anyone send the form in?

Ben

[DelBubs]

I still have the poster in it's original bag, but the only copy of the registration form I saw was in the back of the comic. Maybe not #120, but definately inside the back page of one AF I have.

[darc_light]

Yes, I have it as well, I left in the protector thing with the comic...

[kozzi24]

because it was alpha--not something i normally do--i bought 2 copies of #120, and still have one copy 'mint' in the4 bag