Canada's RESOURCES? [Archive] - AlphaFlight.net - The Home For Alpha Flight Fans

Oeming

09-05-2006, 03:13 PM

Posted this at my board as well, but want to continue to participate here-
Any thoughts?

Okay, to better understand things, what is Canada's financial situation like? How does their economy effect the rest of the world? I know when the terrorists planned on attacking Canada, they were focusing on their financial districts, right?

What about Oil? Food? Imports?

IF Canada were to drop off the face of the earth, how would it effect the rest of the world?
__________________

Corvus

09-05-2006, 04:06 PM

Hello there,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada

Might be a good reference point, assuming you haven't seen it already. I think one of the most important things that would be noticed where Canada to dissappear is all the energy that Canada exports, including oil and hydro-electric energy. British Columbia exports electricity to Califonia, for example.

The Alberta Tar Sands are a huge oil reserve. I seem to recall reading that Canada is the largest foreign supplier of oil to the USA, but I would have to find a source for that.

Food wise, Canada is a huge producer of food, especially wheat.

syvalois

09-05-2006, 05:07 PM

Wow, I did not expected that kind of question for OF. Cool.

Okay, to better understand things, what is Canada's financial situation like?

I'm no expert and finance is not my cup of tea, but juging by what I see, spending more than it got.

How does their economy effect the rest of the world? I know when the terrorists planned on attacking Canada, they were focusing on their financial districts, right?

Terrorists tried to attacked our financial district? The only terrorist group I can remember of, was the one dismantle not too long ago by the RCMP and the report where saying the group where mostly aiming to kill the prime minister in Ottawa (I think). So report where saying this group was mostly made of young canadian/muslim men not related to Al-Qaida.

I don't know how our economy affect the rest of the world, but our external politic sure does. Like the last declaration from Harper sure made us a lot more a target to terrorism than we where before. Our somewhat neutral view help a lot in the diplomatic world and that maybe lost because of Harper decision to side with the US and Israel over the Libanese(?) conflict.(insert, my and many I know point of view).

What about Oil? Food? Imports?

I had worked of an oil services company and canada was a testing ground for new product because it got all kind of environment and I mean extreme environment. I was in Russia and we had the work clothing coming from Canada.

Hydro-Electricity is huge in QuÃ©bec (and Manitoba I think) anyway and we provide a lot to the US. I just when to see am hydro-QuÃ©bec facility and they said that the exportation represent only 4% of their production, but 32% of their income (more or less).

Let not forget in west africa many pilote take their course here. In the oil industries there was a canadian helicopter company running there.

And lets not forget wood and paper. Like all the Marvel comics(I think it's still true) are printed in Canada. Remember the conflict between the US for wood? (Bois d'oeuvre in french, but I have no clue in english).

I also know that canadians geologist are known for their quality and are looked for their expertise like the Australians are too.

What about in aeronautics? Are we a big players worldwide with Bombardier?

IF Canada were to drop off the face of the earth, how would it effect the rest of the world?

In general Canada is not a major player like the US or France. I think the world would lost a good mediator.[/quote]

Oeming

09-05-2006, 06:17 PM

Thanks guys, this stuff is a big help. I have the usual Wikipedia stuff and all that, but most of my research time is going into the book and characters, so I figured i'll just come right out and ask the Canada stuff, so I can get it as close as I can.

I also think Americans (such as myself) dont realise the important role Canada plays in the world and especially directly to us.

I only learned last you that you guys marched down to washington and burned our captiol down at one point, you crazy bastards:) you can bet thats going to come up a few times:)

Canucklehead

09-05-2006, 06:44 PM

RolandT

09-05-2006, 06:46 PM

We are a resource based economy. Lots of food comes from here (grains, meat, fish, fruit, vegetables). Oil and coal. Almost 40% of the world's uaranium comes from here. Our banks and stuff are pretty big and secure, I think. Wood is big too.

If Canada fell off the Earth that would remove 32 million consumers for foreign goods, lots of power resources, lots of food resources, and if it happened over 100 years ago that would mean no light bulb, radio, t.v., zippers, variable pitch propeller, and lots more. And peacekeepers, and insulin, hockey, photodynamic anticancer drugs, standard time, heterodyne, snowmobile, electric wheelchair, and lots more still.

North dakota would be flooded.

Good thing our school library is still open.

-K-M-

09-05-2006, 06:56 PM

Just a quicky as most has been discussed, other exports involve....

People:
http://www.canadians.ca/

Inventions:
1. http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinventions/a/Canadian.htm
2. http://www3.sympatico.ca/taniah/Canada/things/

syvalois

09-05-2006, 07:10 PM

Don't forget Maple Sirup!!! J Joke aside, I forgot to mention the mining industry. Canada is a leader in copper, and many other minerals.

We are a resource based economy. Lots of food comes from here (grains, meat, fish, fruit, vegetables). Oil and coal. Almost 40% of the world's uaranium comes from here. Our banks and stuff are pretty big and secure, I think. Wood is big too.

If Canada fell off the Earth that would remove 32 million consumers for foreign goods, lots of power resources, lots of food resources, and if it happened over 100 years ago that would mean no light bulb, radio, t.v., zippers, variable pitch propeller, and lots more. And peacekeepers, and insulin, hockey, photodynamic anticancer drugs, standard time, heterodyne, snowmobile, electric wheelchair, and lots more still.

North dakota would be flooded.

Good thing our school library is still open. :twisted:

Oeming

09-05-2006, 07:35 PM

varo

09-05-2006, 08:05 PM

mike, why don't you tell joe q you need to do some extensive research and have marvel foot the bill for a coast to coast tour of canada.

and in all honesty, being a native new yorker i never cared that the original series was based out of canada, only that it had great stories with extremely interesting characters.

Canucklehead

09-05-2006, 08:40 PM

Hi Mr. Oeming,

I'm extremely happy you're doing your research of our country! I just thought I could take this opportunity let you know about a couple things that kinda bugged me from previous writers. 8)

A) the word "hoser" is not used today and was never suposed to leave the 70s :lol:

B) If the "eh" thing must come up, it's mostly used by the older generation and also that there are times when it is appropriate and times when it is not. The "eh" is basically just a way of asking a question. You can say "Are you going to the mall?" or "You're going to the mall, aren't you?" Well the "aren't you" can be replaced by an "eh". That also includes "isn't it?".

For example:
"Hello, eh?" -inappropriate and awkward.
"Nice day, eh?" -Acceptable, since the "eh" is replacing an "isn't it?"

I hope this helps! I'd rather not see it at all (of course with Puck it was part of his character), but no one seemed to know how to correctly use it since Byrne! So just follow the "isn't it"/"aren't they" formula and you'll have no awkward ehs!

Hah, dont worry about that. But, are there some modern slangs to be tossed about? Im from New Jersey, and while it is a stereotype, I must say
"Howyou doin?" and "Forget about it" at least 3 times a week, and its not even a joke. Now, I dont say it like Im from the Soprano's, but its part of the local language for sure. That and the F word is both a Verb and a Noun here:)

haha nice. Yeah I always wanted a Newfoundlander on the team because of the crazy accent. Think of an irish Boomhower from King of the Hill. I know here in the Maritime Provinces like New Brunswick, next to Maine, in the more rural areas mind you, there's sayings like "How's she bootin' er?" meaning "How's it going?". Now that would be great to see in the book, the problem is that Canada is so big, there's different sayings in every town, and we have many towns. My family on Prince Edward Island says "wha?" instead of "eh?". "Nice day, wha?". But again you'd have to be from the area to understand. I doubt anyone from Ontario would get it. Now I have travelled to BC and back, and the one thing I noticed is a lot of young Canadians use the word "right" as an adverb. "That's right awesome".

Oh and the F word is used quite a bit in some places. Ever hear of the show Trailor Park Boys? Low budget yet HUGE hit across the country. They curse every 2 words and on Canadian TV (after a certain hour) you can say anything (or reveal anything) and not get censored.

There are some things that are "Universally Canadian" like Tim Hortons (Canada's version of Dunkin' Donuts). You say "I'm goin' to Tim's" anywhere in Canada and they know you're getting a coffee. Also can't forget Hockey. Because there's so few Canadian NHL teams, the rivalries are big. Habs fans hate Leafs fans who hate Senator's fans etc.

There's many intriquet things when it comes to Canada that make it unique. Like your predecessor, you can't just add an eh every once and a while to make it feel Canadian. I heard many countries over seas see us as a hipper USA. Gay Marriages, decriminalized Marijuana, younger drinking ages, win the lottery you keep every cent, beautiful women, great beer, the list goes on!

We are the closest to the US then any country in terms of culture, yet so vastly different. The rivalry is still there. Oh and you heard about that burning of the white house did ya? :wink:

Transmetropolitan

09-05-2006, 10:37 PM

Well, here's a transitory outsider perspective...

On my drive through Canada (down the AlCan and Yellowhead) I saw a lot. Alberta has a ton of oil, and I didn't see a lot of obvious poverty- which may not signify much, but along the Interstates, you see some real pits.

Also, the uniform fee for all campsites along the road was awesome.

Attitude sorta reminded me of home, and the bilingual requirement definitely gets stricter the farther east you go on the Yellowhead...

Heard that the skyrocketing oil prices worldwide were causing some headaches, and gasoline is actually quite pricey all along the road.

Some small towns like Teslin and Lanigan are having some belt-tightening because of reduced highway traffic to keep local business going.

Tiberius Bane

09-05-2006, 11:10 PM

I only learned last you that you guys marched down to washington and burned our captiol down at one point, you crazy bastards:) you can bet thats going to come up a few times:)

You would be surprised how often this comes up between me and my American friends.

MikeM

Transmetropolitan

09-05-2006, 11:18 PM

syvalois

09-06-2006, 01:08 AM

[quote=Canucklehead]Hi Mr. Oeming,

I'm extremely happy you're doing your research of our country! I just thought I could take this opportunity let you know about a couple things that kinda bugged me from previous writers. 8)

You should not have said that! I've got lots and lots of complaint about how Quebeckers have been shown. You all know it too well, I said it to much, but Mr. Oeming, I don't mind too much the french mistakes, but please, oh please, never write that awful accent some writer have given the francophone characters. I mean, I got to suffer the french bimbo Aurora, the french bimbo Murmur, the characters that are transexual because the name do not fit the body gender, the expressions that are not right, the last names that supposed to be french but don't exist, The FLQ that kills more people in 1 comic than it did in it's entire existance, a school run by nuns that is not possible for the time, Aurora that comes from the only imaginary town in all Alpha history,... Yes I can take a lot of those, but pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease, don't write that awful accent.

And if you would like an advise from me, Quebeckers, Acadians, Franco-Ontarians, Franco-Manitobans(sp?), etc. are not french and have not been for a long time. We do have our own culture and stereotype.

p.s. we do say the f word in quebec too, it's not totally seen as swearing since it's in another language and we did a french spin on it and the word as gain another meaning.

For swearing, I recommand Bon cop, bad cop, Patrick Huard explain it better than me. :P

MistressMerr

09-06-2006, 03:57 AM

The Alberta Tar Sands are a huge oil reserve.
W00t, representing. I honestly don't know much about the other resources of Canada because here it's just oil, oil, oil. Everything in this damn city revolves around oil.

Canucklehead

09-06-2006, 08:28 AM

You should not have said that! I've got lots and lots of complaint about how Quebeckers have been shown...

Sorry! But I just had to get that off my chest. No matter how good a story is I could not stand another "hey, eh?".

I do know what you're saying about the Quebec representers though. As for Aurora's behavior I just see that as an extreme of one personality compaired to the other nun-like Jeanne-Marie. At least they didn't have every women from the province a, um, "social butterfly". Though I would very much like to have her split personality cured and be the strong, centered, well rounded woman like Rogue is portrayed. She sould be a roll model to Quebec girls, not what she's been portrayed as so far. Outside of that, yeah it's tough for anyone outside of Quebec to get the culture right, let alone anyone outside the country.

I just figured maybe the name "Baubier" could be easily answered by, what if his dad wasn't from Quebec but mother was. Maybe he was a Beaubier from out west, married a Quebec girl. She kept her name but the children took the father's.

How about you give some examples of how you'd like the accent spelled out? So you'll get no more of the "Ziss eez your Brozere, non?". I've been in Moncton for so long, I'm so used to the Shiac. Around here if a French person is talking completely english it sounds more like:

"I bought t'ree bag but d'ey onlyy charge me for da one." (yy = long e).

That's how my dad talks and he's from Caraquet. I assume the Quebec accent is different, but nothing like Murmur's.

Oeming what have you gotten yourself into!? lol j/k

Wildcard

09-06-2006, 09:47 AM

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. Love the website by the way.

I just wanted to add that I think it would be great if a comic based in Canada depicted how culturally diverse we are as a country as well. I believe there was a stat that stated that 49% of the people in the GTA (greater Toronto area) are immigrants.

That is one of the things I like most about Alpha Flight was how diverse they were. You had Puck (dwarf), Roger Bochs (crippled), Northstar (gay), Marina (alien), Snowbird (goddess), Shaman & Talisman (native) and later led by a female leader. Plus, the members were from all across our great country.

Many before me have pointed out many of Canada's vast number of resources but I thought I might also add that many movies and television shows are filmed up here. The lower production costs and tax breaks have created a "Hollywood North" if you will. Most things seem to be filmed in Vancouver and Toronto.

Here is a link to a list of films filmed in the Toronto area;
http://webhome.idirect.com/~jerik/films/top.htm

Also, a list of famous Canadians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_Canadians

Not that this is a big deal but it would add a little extra to the book if you took note of how Canadians spell certain words differently than our American neighbours. Words such as favour, honour, centre etc.

Not sure if it would ever come up in the comic but here in Canada we have one and two dollar coins. The $1 is called "The Looney" and the $2 is called "The Tooney". If someone should ask you for 2 dollars say, its not uncommon for them to ask you for a tooney for example. "You got a tooney on you?"

Umm, thats all I have off the top of my head. While the new book is a drastic change from the Alpha Flight I grew up with, I am looking forward to and plan to give it a chance.

Oh! By the way, there are Canadians who could and would take exception to American heroes running from/leaving the States and asking asylum here then representing us while still flying overt symbolism of the country they left (The Captain America character wearing the stars and stripes while now representing Canada). Seems a little hypocritical.

syvalois

09-06-2006, 10:35 AM

As for Aurora's behavior I just see that as an extreme of one personality compaired to the other nun-like Jeanne-Marie. At least they didn't have every women from the province a, um, "social butterfly".

I did not mind the original Aurora. I started disliking her when she gain the yellow costume, for me, it was a 3rd personality. It did not had the nuance and intelligence the original Aurora had. Ok, if you count Jeanne-Marie(and not Jean-Marie, because that's a men's name) and Aurora as 2 women, not all where social butterfly.

Though I would very much like to have her split personality cured and be the strong, centered, well rounded woman like Rogue is portrayed.

I would also like to be strong, well centered and rounded woman :) Lol, actually I like Aurora as this crazy person, that's what makes her special. I don't really want a role model, I want an interesting character that do not goes on stereotype, borderline offensive personalities. There is a lot to be explored with that original split personality.

Outside of that, yeah it's tough for anyone outside of Quebec to get the culture right, let alone anyone outside the country.

totally, I would not known how to write characters outside QuÃ©bec, and I'm totally lost if they come from the west. But OF don't seems to have any Quebecers in th eserie yet, so, he can worry later for that.

I just figured maybe the name "Baubier" could be easily answered by, what if his dad wasn't from Quebec but mother was. Maybe he was a Beaubier from out west, married a Quebec girl. She kept her name but the children took the father's.

Of course she kept her name, women don't take their husband name here(for the last 30 years at least). But I just don't mind, Beaubier is just fine, sound good enough. Let just say he was the only Beaubier in QuÃ©bec. The name don't have to be characteristically Quebecer all the time (once in a while would be fun tho). I would like to have a ferguson coming from QuÃ©bec and could not speak a word of english, I knew Ferguson's like that.

How about you give some examples of how you'd like the accent spelled out? So you'll get no more of the "Ziss eez your Brozere, non?".

More like Gambit. As giving some exemple, it would be best that an anglophone that can hear the difference would write it. My phonetics is french so I may write something wrong, but the basic stuff is replace the th with a "d", forget or place at the wrong place the "h" like in "How", don't use too complicated words, make grammatical errors, Stuff like 'Northstar and earth" is very hard to say for me. Anyway, listen to CÃ©line Dion, or an hockey players, you will get the idea!

That's how my dad talks and he's from Caraquet. I assume the Quebec accent is different, but nothing like Murmur's.

Considering she grew up in Ontario, that accent was even more impossible. Murmur is another nutcase there.

Personnal question here, is there a difference between a shiak and a acadian? I've met some acadian, and I can understand them perfectly well, but my dad told me some are very hard to understand because they are mixing up so much english and french word in the same sentence, it's like another language.

Oeming what have you gotten yourself into!? lol

yup, he's in big trouble![/quote]

Canucklehead

09-06-2006, 10:58 AM

Personnal question here, is there a difference between a shiak and a acadian? I've met some acadian, and I can understand them perfectly well, but my dad told me some are very hard to understand because they are mixing up so much english and french word in the same sentence, it's like another language.

Shiak is all the craze with the young kids in Shediac and Moncton because the cities are biligual, whereas most of the Acadian settlements are 100% french. They'll hav a different accent depending on where they are. Shiak on the other hand is neither french or English. Ex:

J'allez Ã* la store and j'ai buyer des chips. Mes Chums a suppÃ©-up ma Civic. J'ai watchÃ© la Seinfeld pui doÃ©ing mes excercise, d'ere. A tu hearÃ© from Michel?

You can understand it from any language which is nice, but other then that it's so hick.

syvalois

09-06-2006, 11:07 AM

Shiak is all the craze with the young kids in Shediac and Moncton because the cities are biligual, whereas most of the Acadian settlements are 100% french. They'll hav a different accent depending on where they are. Shiak on the other hand is neither french or English. Ex:

J'allez Ã* la store and j'ai buyer des chips. Mes Chums a suppÃ©-up ma Civic. J'ai watchÃ© la Seinfeld pui doÃ©ing mes excercise, d'ere. A tu hearÃ© from Michel?

Thank you ! And that sentence is priceless. I just can't understand what his friends did to his civic. I mean, I'm reading it ok, but gearing it, must take a while to pick up everything. Everything is so mixed up. Cool.

Canucklehead

09-06-2006, 11:26 AM

Thank you ! And that sentence is priceless. I just can't understand what his friends did to his civic. I mean, I'm reading it ok, but gearing it, must take a while to pick up everything. Everything is so mixed up. Cool.

Haha suppÃ©-up a Civic is pretty much putting a NOS sticker or "Civic Racing" sticker on the side window to make them look "cool". It's so bad. Everyone who has a Honda Civic in this city speaks Shiak and is named Jean-Guy.

Avec ma soeur dans la front seat, mes chums will t'ink I am da hot stuff.

Then they drive up and down Main Street all night.

MonsieurTaffy

09-06-2006, 02:27 PM

Hello / Bonjour all,

long, long time lurker, first time poster, as this thread is of particular interest to me!

To answer Mr. Oeming's question regarding Canada's resources, here are a few points:

1) Exports:
One thing to take into account is that the USA remain Canada's first commercial partner. Over 80% of Canada's exports go to the USA - and I cannot remember that %age of US exports going to Canada, but they are very important (Canada is the first export market for the USA if memory serves).
Millions of $ of goods cross the border daily, in both directions. Most northern US states depend heavily on Canada for their economy.
This is currently a hot topic due to President Bush's administration having raised the potential issue of requiring Canadians to have a passport to enter the USA - increasing time to cross the border, slowing down business and increasing costs for companies. Both Northern US stats and Canadian federal/provincial authorities are doing all they can so this resolution does not materialize.

2) Production:

Canada was, for the longest time, a resource based economy. We still heavily export these resources, as many have pointed out: pulp, paper, minerals, hydro-electricty, water, oil, etc.
For instance, the whole city of New-York obtains most of its electricity from QuÃ©bec (and to a lesser extent Ontario).
By the way, Sylvalois, "bois d'oeuvre" en anglais, c'est "softwood lumber". :D
However Canada has diversified its economy, and is now a leader in many other fields. Among others, planes/aeronautics (I think Bombardier was mentionned); pharmaceuticals; clothing and consumer goods (though this industry is not doing that well); services; etc...
Overall, the service portion of the Canadian economy is getting increasinly larger as years go by.

3) Foreign relations:
For over 40 years, Canada has played a role as a mediator on the international scene, helping NATO and the United Nations. Canada's been very active in peacekeeping and trying to harmonize relationships between countries.
We've been trying to act as a bridge between the USA and Europe, especially the UK and France, for obvious historical and cultural reasons.
Though we do not donate as much as we could (only 0.8% of GDP), Canada is very active on the international development scene, especially in Africa.
Note that the neutral / peacekeeping stand has changed drastically in the past months with our current federal government's stand on the Israel / Lebanon crisis, as has been mentionned by other posters.

OUF, what a long e-mail...sorry for the lecture, I hope it was not too tedious and can be useful :D

ps: l loved the shiac examples above, keep them coming!

syvalois

09-06-2006, 04:23 PM

Haha suppÃ©-up a Civic is pretty much putting a NOS sticker or "Civic Racing" sticker on the side window to make them look "cool". It's so bad. Everyone who has a Honda Civic in this city speaks Shiak and is named Jean-Guy.

Jean-Guy is such an old name for me. More a 60 something man. And do they drive avec des Ginette ?

Avec ma soeur dans la front seat, mes chums will t'ink I am da hot stuff.

Then they drive up and down Main Street all night.

Lol, ok, they need a better hobby. It's like those people that drive with the radio "full pine" and think they are cool. All I can think is that they are going to be deaf at 30.

syvalois

09-06-2006, 05:02 PM

Bienvenue/welcome Monsieur Taffy,

1) Exports:
One thing to take into account is that the USA remain Canada's first commercial partner. Over 80% of Canada's exports go to the USA - and I cannot remember that %age of US exports going to Canada, but they are very important (Canada is the first export market for the USA if memory serves).

I remember some years back, my "carte du monde"(world map) teacher said the problem with Canada is that they only have 1 neigbor(sp?) and it's the US. If Alaska had stay russian the Ã©conomical and political relation between the US and Canada would have changed greatly since Russian would have made a counterbalance of some sort.

8 years ago, 70% to 75% US exports going to Canada, said my notes.

2) Production:

For instance, the whole city of New-York obtains most of its electricity from QuÃ©bec (and to a lesser extent Ontario).

And something I've heard too about Hydro-QuÃ©bec. Because they can easily shut down the turbine and stop production. They buy the exceeding electricity production at night from the US and sell them electricity for twice the price or something like that at pick hours. It seems US electricity is mostly made from coal and can't be easily shut down.

By the way, Sylvalois, "bois d'oeuvre" en anglais, c'est "softwood lumber". :D

thanks, it's one of those words my brain have an hard time remembering

OUF, what a long e-mail...sorry for the lecture, I hope it was not too tedious and can be useful :D

Not for me, I like those facts.

Legerd

09-06-2006, 05:28 PM

Here's a link to the page on Canada in the World Factbook site run by the CIA:

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html

Canucklehead

09-06-2006, 11:16 PM

Lol, ok, they need a better hobby.

I'm tellin ya, they are one of the major reasons I moved to BC and the major question I ask "Why did I move back again?". Ever since Fast and the Furious came out, everyone with a Civic thinks they're cool. They see people smilling and pointing at them as they rev their engine, they think they are "the bomb". What they don't realize is, is that everyone is pointing and laughing at them.

ps: l loved the shiac examples above, keep them coming!

haha I used all the best ones already but I'll leave you with my favorite, everyday, shiac quote:

Qu'es ce que ta do-ING!?

kozzi24

09-07-2006, 01:22 AM

From the Concise edition of The Economist's World in Figures 2006:
population: 31.5 million, world ranking #36, not on either top-20 list of fastest or slowest growing population
#34 in lowest fertility rate
#25 for highest median age
#6 for foreign asylum applications
#8 for largest economy, #11 by economy of purchasing power
#20 highest GDP per head
#4 in "quality of life" human development index
#16 economic freedom index
#4 "gender related development"
#9 biggest exporter & biggest visible trader, #11 "invisible trader"
makes neither list for highest or lowest trade dependency
#12 largest surplus
did not make list of top 40 highest deficits
surplus % of GDP #49
#37 lowest inflation 2004
#6 producer of energy
#8 largest consumer of oil equivalent, #7 use per person
#5 in global competitiveness
#17 in patent applications and R&D expenditure
#20 in foreign direct investment
#12 in corruption perception index
#8 life expectancy (80.7) male #9 @ 70, female #11 @ 83

The reference also has disease statistics, consumer goods ownership, media habits, substance use, crime & environment, and (I assume) that the non-concise edition would have tons more. The 2007 edition goes on sale this month (according to the blurb in the back.)

Hope that helps

Radiostorm

09-07-2006, 01:50 AM

I know when the terrorists planned on attacking Canada, they were focusing on their financial districts, right?
Toronto's downtown core is basically the hot target for terrorist and supervillian alike. The skyline stealing CN Tower and Skydome are iconic and obvious targets, but most of the Canadian banks are centered in peripheral skyscrapers. My mother actually works for TD Canada Trust, a leading Canadian bank, and has had her building evacuated on more than one occasion since 9/11 due to potential terrorist threats.

SasqFan

09-07-2006, 05:51 AM

In June of this year Canada was the USA's top source for foreign oil. Mexico came in second.

The US Dept. of Energy site says this: (http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html)

The top sources of US crude oil imports for June were Canada (1.799 million barrels per day)...

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum products in June, exporting 2.258 million barrels per day to the United States.

Canada *matters*

syvalois

09-07-2006, 12:46 PM

Ever since Fast and the Furious came out, everyone with a Civic thinks they're cool. They see people smilling and pointing at them as they rev their engine, they think they are "the bomb". What they don't realize is, is that everyone is pointing and laughing at them.

Well, at least they are a minority. Everywhere you will find stupid people. As for fast and furious, I saw the second one. The "hero" was driving really fast, while looking in the eyes of the girls sitting next to him. The movie was making him sound as cool. I could not beleive it, What a Moron! What a stupidity, a no brainer! And that's suposed to be the hero? I just saw that scene and well thought it was a waste of my time.

You know, some time ago, I saw a video clip showing a real home video about a person driving really fast. You know what? We see the guy having an accident and he died just there in front of the camera. The song was called "De HÃ©ros Ã* ZÃ©ros"(from heros to zeros). I thought it was appropriate.

sorry it's not really the subject here.

Northcott

09-07-2006, 11:02 PM

1) Beaubier was a name present in Montreal through the 70's and 80's at least. J (Torres, the writer I was working with on Degrassi) knew a couple of them, I think. There may be none left, but it was a Quebecois name.

2) Canada is also a world leader in technology innovation. Some of the world's most advanced medical research is done here. I'm sure you folks have heard of the Blackberry (Crackberry) -- that was invented here in Kitchener/Waterloo, and RIM continues to keep the core of their operations here. In fact, the K-W area continues to be known as the centre of Canada's high-tech industry. It was here that the circutry and programming for the USA's old MX series of missiles was developed and produced.

3) As has been pointed out, we're the largest supplier of oil to the USA, and have been for around a decade, iirc.

4) Don't make the mistake of trying to portray Canada as a single culture -- or even the old standby of "Two Solitudes". This land is a pastiche of a thousand cultures, and that sense of multiculteralism is slowly transforming from a source of friction into a source of pride. Along with the Quebecois, there's the very Irish roots of Newfoundland, the more free-thinking and hip "Left Coast", a couple dozen native cultures fighting to survive (I spent a couple years living on an Ojibwa rez), and immigrants coming in every day to add their flavour to the nation. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

5) History. The references to Logan as the "Crazy Canuck" are born from writers who apparently remembered WWII -- or knowing people who remembered it. Canadians had (and to a great degree, still have) a reputation for soldiers who are under-funded and under-supplied, but skilled, dedicated, and remarkable capable. We're currently holding down the fort in Afghanistan while the US is entrenched in Iraq.

6) We do not have a Big Conspiracy government. This has repeatedly irked me about the past incarnations of Alpha: every writer seems to think it would be funky to have big goverment conspiracies behind things.

Our government is lucky if it can get through half a year without embarassing itself. We favour politicians who are borderline insane, but tow a good middle-of-the-road approach to governing. A 70 year-old who throws protesters in choke-holds, subdues intruders by clubbing them with Inuit carvings, and can be found breathless after dashing up a staircase to prove you're still virile? We can tolerate that. Hell, we even enjoy it. The slightest whiff of an extremist agenda -- in any direction -- will get you turfed faster than you can blink, though.

Byrne had it right with government funding and Alpha's status being yanked. That's far more likely to happen than the Machiavellian plotting of later renditions of Department H. For Chrissakes, we still flip out when criminals go so far as to use guns! There is some little truth to the stereotype of quiet, polite Canadians.

7) Water. The world is growing short of it. We have the largest supply of it.

8) The Northern Pass. The arctic is thawing. For the last couple centuries, nobody has batted an eye that Canada has claimed the frozen north as part of our sovereign lands. Now that it's thawing and becoming a potential hotbed for shipping, the USA -- along with several other nations -- are suddenly hinting that they may not recognize our sovereignty in northern waters. Our current Prime Minister has (rightly, in my mind) seen fit to revive our former military presence in the far north.

9) Other types of energy. We provide a great deal of hydro-electric energy to the east coast of the USA. Our grids are so inter-connected that when someone south of the border caused a massive blackout a couple years ago, it shut down much of Southern Ontario as well. I'm not sure whether or not Quebec got hit by that as well.

Touching on that point: Mac got his start working for the big energy companies. He's worked for the government. He created a suit that, in spite of looking skin tight and passing as spandex, is so advanced that it serves to prove Einstein's Unified Field Theory. The raw power in it is astounding. Seeing him do some good with that would be nice. Or at least referencing background activities in trying to set up larger-scale power generation.

He's a personal favourite. :) I'd be ever so grateful if a writer finally did something with him instead of having him made of cardboard. He hasn't gotten a decent treatment since his early appearances.

There's much more, I'm sure. What it boils down to is that Canada is the "quiet" country. Much of what we do remains in the background. We're not loud about things, for the most part.

syvalois

09-08-2006, 12:23 AM

1) Beaubier was a name present in Montreal through the 70's and 80's at least. J (Torres, the writer I was working with on Degrassi) knew a couple of them, I think. There may be none left, but it was a Quebecois name.

Yeah, but look in Alberta, there is a lot more there. It's not like they where named Tremblay. But Byrne did not have to give them the most popular name in the province either. To have a name not that common can show our diversity too. I was just saying, that at least 1 character should have an easily recognisable last name. Ok, the couple renting to the Hudson and a good last name Lapierre, but they where the first gay couple in Marvel history, you know, Georges and FranÃ§ois. :twisted:

2) Canada is also a world leader in technology innovation.
Makes me think of hollywood special effects, a lot is been done here. Softimages and other compagnies.

3) As has been pointed out, we're the largest supplier of oil to the USA, and have been for around a decade, iirc.

5) We're currently holding down the fort in Afghanistan while the US is entrenched in Iraq.

And Canadian army is good in humanitarian cause. Like they are good in helping in natural disaster. Remember the icestorm? or the flood in Saguenay? Or maybe also the flood in Manitoba in 1997.

9) Other types of energy. We provide a great deal of hydro-electric energy to the east coast of the USA. Our grids are so inter-connected that when someone south of the border caused a massive blackout a couple years ago, it shut down much of Southern Ontario as well. I'm not sure whether or not Quebec got hit by that as well.

No, Hydro-QuÃ©bec was not affected. The system they use is different.

Northcott

09-08-2006, 12:39 AM

Yeah, but look in Alberta, there is a lot more there. It's not like they where named Tremblay. But Byrne did not have to give them the most popular name in the province either. To have a name not that common can show our diversity too. I was just saying, that at least 1 character should have an easily recognisable last name. Ok, the couple renting to the Hudson and a good last name Lapierre, but they where the first gay couple in Marvel history, you know, Georges and FranÃ§ois. :twisted:

I still can't believe Marina's last name was "Smallwood". From a small, outport fishing family no less. :)

And Canadian army is good in humanitarian cause. Like they are good in helping in natural disaster. Remember the icestorm? or the flood in Saguenay? Or maybe also the flood in Manitoba in 1997.

True. And they've done a great deal of international aid work as well (particularly the state of the art DART team), not to mention the well-deserved cause as some of the most effective peacekeeping soldiers.

Corvus

09-08-2006, 01:06 AM

9) Other types of energy. We provide a great deal of hydro-electric energy to the east coast of the USA. Our grids are so inter-connected that when someone south of the border caused a massive blackout a couple years ago, it shut down much of Southern Ontario as well. I'm not sure whether or not Quebec got hit by that as well.
.

This is also true on the West Coast. BC Hydro (the provinicial power utility) sells electricity into California, among other places. It is probably a measure of how much Hydro-electric power BC produces that the utility is known as "Hydro" in common conversation.

Le Messor

09-10-2006, 02:32 AM

IF Canada were to drop off the face of the earth, how would it effect the rest of the world?

1. What, exactly, do you have planned for this series? :shock:

2. I believe the word you're looking for is 'affect'; to effect means to cause. I honestly don't know how Canada dropping off Earth would cause the rest of the world...? :P

- Le Messor
"American life is a powerful solvent. It seems to neutralize every intellectual element, however tough and alien it may be, and to fuse it in the native good will, complacency, thoughtlessness, and optimism."
- George Santayana, Character and Opinion in the US, 1920

bigbloo

09-11-2006, 05:32 AM

This is a fascinating topic for me, seeing as to how im living all the way on the other side of the world. The Philippines gets a lot of American media but not a lot of Canadian media, so i have a pretty good idea of how an "average" American lives, but i confess i dont really know much about "average" Canadians.

Do people like living in cities or in small towns?
Do you really get free medical treatment?
How about schools? Are there private schools as well?
Are there street gangs in Canadian cities?
Where do people go when they go on vacation?
Does Canada have a Hollywood? A Beverlly Hills?
Does everyoe know how to play Hockey?

In Manila, most people like to live in the city, we have local actors but most of the new ones are pretty faces with no talent, getting sick is ridiculously expensive, adventure vacations like scuba diving and trekking are very "in", and theres a basketball hoop in every other corner.

:)

Ben

09-11-2006, 11:09 AM

1. Do people like living in cities or in small towns?
2. Do you really get free medical treatment?
3. How about schools? Are there private schools as well?
4. Are there street gangs in Canadian cities?
5. Where do people go when they go on vacation?
6. Does Canada have a Hollywood? A Beverlly Hills?
7. Does everyoe know how to play Hockey?
:)

Hey Bloo, I'll answer yer questions from personal perspective.

1. I perefer living in rurral areas, or out in the middle of the country. Currently I live in a small city, but that's for conveniance with my wife in university.

2. We have medicare, that covers the basics, but has lots of problems with it that need fixing

3. There are private schools, again in the bigger cities

4. No gangs in my area, but they do exist in bigger cities.

5. PEI is actuall a popular tourist destination. The village I run the bar in is a tourist community

6. The closest to Hollywood is Vancouver, where a lot of US companies are doing filming now, as it's cheaper.

7. I don't like hockey...but I did play on my parents' pond with my brother when we were kids.

Ben

syvalois

09-11-2006, 11:57 AM

[...]but i confess i dont really know much about "average" Canadians.

I want to play too, but I'm afraid I'm going to offend some people. Can I just say like Ben, It's from my perspective and I don't represent any agency, gouverment, politic party or anything else than myself?

I just think that even in Canada, we don't know what is an "average" canadian. I mean, you all know I'm from QuÃ©bec and many of our cultural references comes from tv. I've got a lot of ideas about americans, but what about Canada? I don't know.

Sometimes I feel canadian but mostly not because of the cultural aspect. My definition of a Canadian is someone living in an anglophone majority watching a lot of american tv and hockey.

What people say here about canadian culture usually don't apply in my province. Blue Rodeo? What is that? Dan Aykroyd is not an american? I did not know. Don Cherry? You mean the B***** that saying bad thing about us, That %?%#&(&$@(&)#$!$. Rick Mercer? I'm supposed to know that name? and I can go on.

Do people like living in cities or in small towns? Depends, I like medium ones. I would go back in QuÃ©bec city anytimes.

Do you really get free medical treatment? Yes if you don't count the taxes I'm paying. I got to pay for the dentist, optometrist and chiro and those kind of stuff. I can see my doctor free but it can take a lot of time to get a rendez-vous. And if it's urgent, you can wait for many hours before seeing a doctor.

How about schools? Are there private schools as well? Yes, in cities. But they are not run by nuns :P

Are there street gangs in Canadian cities? Yes, ontv, Zone libre suppose to show a documentary about that very soon and say how much more violent they are in Montreal compare to what we think.

Where do people go when they go on vacation? Florida? :twisted: Except from Florida, many goes in winter in those south locations Ã* la Club Med, in Cuba, Mexico, Dominican republics. In summers, many stay to visit other part of the province like GaspÃ©sie. Or goes in Europe, of course France is a commun location for many. Me, this year I went camping in a provincial parc near Quebec city. And next year, I would like to see the maritimes, mostly I must admit the aciadians, since I don't know much about them.

Does Canada have a Hollywood? A Beverlly Hills? Very rich places? yes, but not like in the US. In Montreal, it's Outremont and West Mount.

Does everyoe know how to play Hockey? I guess a little bit. I was never told the full rules, but I pretty well know how to play. I just skate very badly, I almost did not where any skates since grade 6 in primary school.

Northcott

09-11-2006, 12:12 PM

Y'know, Bloo... combined with Ben's response, you've got a pretty brilliant idea. A little snapshot of people's personal view of Canada.

This is a fascinating topic for me, seeing as to how im living all the way on the other side of the world. The Philippines gets a lot of American media but not a lot of Canadian media, so i have a pretty good idea of how an "average" American lives, but i confess i dont really know much about "average" Canadians.

It's funny, but most Americans don't know jack about us, either... but we tend to know an awful lot about their country. Comparatively speaking, that is.

Do people like living in cities or in small towns?

Something like 80% or 85% of Canada's population lives near the border to the US, and the concentration of urban centres has grown remarkably in the last 100+ years.

Personally, I prefer small town life. My mother comes from a small fishing village in Newfoundland that has less than 400 people. I spent my summers there as a kid, and it still feels like home to me. Living among a region of a half million people in Ontario never quite sits right with me, though living on an Ojibwa rez up on the Manitoba border felt a little more natural.

Do you really get free medical treatment?

Depends on the treatment in question. The list of services can be kind of complex at times, but the basic version is that we generally don't worry about hospital bills. You might have to wait longer for complex problems like hip replacement -- which is a terrible thing for the people who are suffering -- but on the flipside, if unexpected illness or accident afflicts your family, you don't have to worry about hospitalization destroying your finances entirely and driving your family into poverty. Or about insurance companies bilking you after the fact.

Part of the problem with such a system is, of course, that some people abuse the Hell out of it. There are a number of cases of fraud each year where Canadian citizens will give their Health cards to American relatives and get them free (expensive) treatments. Or simple cases of idiots coming into emergency rooms with a head cold or flu, instead of simply taking the proper medication and getting rest. A thousand little abuses drive the cost of our system through the roof, and are a contributing factor (among others) to putting it at risk.

How about schools? Are there private schools as well?

There are. But the public school system is alive and well, and provides an excellent standard of education.

Are there street gangs in Canadian cities?

Yep. Not nearly the problem they are in the USA, though. For contrast: in 2004 there were 60 gun-related deaths in Toronto. The greater percentage of these were young black men, and most of the shootings were gang-related. People were freaking out, living in fear of the rise of gun violence in gangs, etc. This peaked with a very public shoot-out between gang members on Boxing Day (that's right, the day after Christmas), in one of the busier shopping districts. A 15 year-old girl was caught in the crossfire and killed.

For that same year in Chicago (a similarly-sized city), there were over 600.

Last year in Toronto the number of shootings increased by roughly a dozen. This caused even more freaking out. Now community groups are rising up to combat the gangs on a basic level; getting to the kids before the gangs can recruit them, and programming them to look toward more positive options. There's also far less tolerance of gang culture in low income neighbourhoods. Incidents of gun crime have fallen once again, but whether this is coincidence or due to the success of social programs remains to be seen.

Where do people go when they go on vacation?

We live in a huge nation that contains everything from rainforests to arctic tundra, mountains, oceans and vast wilderness regions, cosmopolitan urban centres, to quaint bed and breakfasts nestled in any one of a number of countless cultural areas. Many people vacation at home. You could spend a lifetime exploring this nation and still not see all the facets of it.

We're also a nation of immigrants: people from all over the globe live here. (I was taught to fight by a Fillipino by the surname of Bueno) :) Lots of people return to their nations of origion for vacation. Some travel abroad and see Europe, the Carribean, or the USA (I've been as far west as Montana and as far south as Florida and Tennesee).

Does Canada have a Hollywood? A Beverlly Hills?

No Beverly Hills, but Toronto has had so many movies shot there that it's become known as "Hollywood North". Because our dollar was lower, many American film companies started shooting up here. The X-Men movie, for example, had large chunks of it shot in Toronto. The interior of the X-Mansion is Castle Loma.

Vancouver is also a very popular filming location, and has been since the 90's. They're now either rivalling or equal to Toronto in production, I think.

Does everyoe know how to play Hockey?

No, but many do. :)

Hockey's almost a religion up here -- or was for the longest time. The comercialization of the NHL has reduced this greatly. Where before the teams were almost like regional representatives, champions of an area, now the game is very much a business and people seem much less inspired by it. That said, the television program "Hockey Night in Canada" is still the most widely watched in the nation, and when the national team plays in the Olympics it manages to surpass even that.

My father and uncle were supposed to go to NHL training camps when they were young, but my grandfather put the nix on it. NHL players weren't nearly so well paid in the 1960's, and they were made to get "real jobs". Needless to say, I learned to play hockey as a kid. :) With some unrealistic expectations.

Northcott

09-11-2006, 12:28 PM

What people say here about canadian culture usually don't apply in my province. Blue Rodeo? What is that?

A country/rock band that bores me to tears. You're not missing much. I preferred Mitsou Gelinas. ;) At least she was easier on the eyes. Much, much easier.

Dan Aykroyd is not an american? I did not know.

And Jim Carey, Lorne Green, Alanis Morisette... and Celine Dion. Many, many others, of course. But yes, there's a disconnect in pop culture.

Don Cherry? You mean the B***** that saying bad thing about us, That %?%#&(&$@(&)#$!$.

And he's always catching Hell for that, too.

Rick Mercer? I'm supposed to know that name? and I can go on.

And there's where we start tripping over the lines of the bone that the two of us usually end up gnawing on. Mercer's a Newfoundlander. He comes from a culture that's different from that of urban Ontario, rural Alberta, etc. And I'm going to keep giving you Hell about this "two solitudes" stuff until you stop it. :) This is a land of a thousand cultures, not two.

Nor is culture limited to pop culture. It would be a damned sad state of being if it were. Think of the elements of Quebec culture that are valued most: concepts like public medical care. That didn't originate in Quebec, nor did the system for implementing it. You can thank Tommy Douglas for that one: boxer turned Baptist minister turned politician, hailing from Saskatchewan. The Quebec medical system is currently funded in part by contributions from other regions in the country.

This is a period of redefinition. Clinging to divisive moorings is counter-productive. The worst part is that such sentiment is usually utter BS drummed up by opportunistic politicians who use feelings of feeling disenfranchised to create employment for themselves. Klein did the same thing in Alberta, often creating strawment fights with the national government -- conflicts which really didn't exist, but by starting the controversy he guaranteed his popularity with Albertans who felt trod upon by the NEP in the 80's.

syvalois

09-11-2006, 02:55 PM

You're not missing much. I preferred Mitsou Gelinas. ;) At least she was easier on the eyes. Much, much easier.

Ah, Mitsou is a good example of what an Aurora should be. Sexy, like her body and to show it, but got brain. Mitsou runs her own company, works in radio and with a magasine"Clin d'oeil" I think. She also comes from a very famous family. Her grandfather is a famous playwriter, his Play "Ti-Coq" Almost or did Broadway? anyway, she's not a tart, so she's not only easier on the eyes.

And Jim Carey, Lorne Green, Alanis Morisette... and Celine Dion. Many, many others, of course. But yes, there's a disconnect in pop culture.

Who is Lorne Green? I'm not sure I understand the disconnect in pop culture comment. I was just saying, unless told, I have no way to know they are canadians and I know of them only because they are on american tv or movies.

Rick Mercer? I'm supposed to know that name? and I can go on.

And there's where we start tripping over the lines of the bone that the two of us usually end up gnawing on. Mercer's a Newfoundlander. He comes from a culture that's different from that of urban Ontario, rural Alberta, etc. And I'm going to keep giving you Hell about this "two solitudes" stuff until you stop it. :) This is a land of a thousand cultures, not two.

??? We are at it again! I never said there was 2 solitudes, I agree there are more in that way, don't forget native and I mean all of them. All, I was saying is that Rick Mercer is probably known all across Canada because the CBC is showning him all across Canada. TV is the medium to reach the most people. I just don't have the cable and I've got 4 channels in french and 2 in english. And I don't watch the english ones. And I'm not the only ones. So all the Mercer and company, unless they are translated in french, I don't see. Ok, I admit I watch it sometimes for Chilly Beach which I find interesting because it was so totally Canadian and I liked the unique look in it. But then again I could not identify with Jacques since he's accent is all wrong :twisted:

Nor is culture limited to pop culture. It would be a damned sad state of being if it were. Think of the elements of Quebec culture that are valued most: concepts like public medical care. That didn't originate in Quebec, nor did the system for implementing it. You can thank Tommy Douglas for that one: boxer turned Baptist minister turned politician, hailing from Saskatchewan. The Quebec medical system is currently funded in part by contributions from other regions in the country.

I agree on this, but at the same time a lot of Canadians have a lot in common with their american neibor and have taken the same principale. But you are right in this point as is the role of peacekeepers for the army is what we like about it.

What makes a nation glue together and feel it's a part of that nation? I still don't really know. I'm talking about feeling, not if it's right or wrong or if it's true or not. Just feeling. If my pop culture in unknown in the rest of Canada what does it say about the rest? I wonder, and I think again, if we are to continue this subject it should be outside the forum not to bored everyone with it.

This is a period of redefinition. Clinging to divisive moorings is counter-productive. The worst part is that such sentiment is usually utter BS drummed up by opportunistic politicians who use feelings of feeling disenfranchised to create employment for themselves. Klein did the same thing in Alberta, often creating strawment fights with the national government -- conflicts which really didn't exist, but by starting the controversy he guaranteed his popularity with Albertans who felt trod upon by the NEP in the 80's.

NEP? sorry I don't usually have the same acronysm than you, so, I can easily lost you on that.

MistressMerr

09-11-2006, 09:27 PM

syvalois

09-12-2006, 12:08 AM

Northcott

09-13-2006, 12:55 AM

Ah, Mitsou is a good example of what an Aurora should be. Sexy, like her body and to show it, but got brain. Mitsou runs her own company, works in radio and with a magasine"Clin d'oeil" I think. She also comes from a very famous family. Her grandfather is a famous playwriter, his Play "Ti-Coq" Almost or did Broadway? anyway, she's not a tart, so she's not only easier on the eyes.

Agreed! She was my inspiration when thinking about that character. :)

Musically, though, I can't say that I'm grabbed by either her or Blue Rodeo. That's why I made the "easier on the eyes" comment. The sound just didn't do it for me. I've found her show for CBC, Au Courant, to be very informative. I watched it fairly regularly before Degrassi chewed me up and spat me out.

Who is Lorne Green? I'm not sure I understand the disconnect in pop culture comment. I was just saying, unless told, I have no way to know they are canadians and I know of them only because they are on american tv or movies.

Lorne Greene is probably most famous for his role in Bonanza, though his time on Battlestar Galactica seems widely-remembered. He started out on CBC radio in WWII. His voice was very deep and very authoritative, and so he became known as "the Voice of Doom" before moving south to make it big in Hollywood.

Your comment about only knowing that they're not American being if you're told that... well, that pretty much holds true of any celebrity. Their state of being is not impacted by your not knowing... if that makes any sense.

The comment about disconnect of Pop Culture is a specific reference: there's a gap in the perception of elements of pop culture. That which is modern, current, and transient doesn't carry over well between the cultures in Canada because of various language barriers -- though this is noticeably less with most cultural groups, as they maintain two languages. It still exists, however.

Pop culture is not the be-all and end-all of our society or our national identity, however. And thank goodness for that. :) The deeper roots of who we are as a nation tends to be uniform -- with an accent on "tends to be". There are, of course, differences. The political gulf between Alberta and Quebec is remarkably vast, for example... which is, I suppose, why watching the Seperatists work hand-in-hand with Harper's inner circle blows my mind. They really couldn't be farther apart in their beliefs, save perhaps in the desire to decentralize the power of national government to the point of ineffectuality. (But this doesn't quite hold true when Harper himself is in power, of course)

??? We are at it again!

It's ON, girlfriend! :D

I never said there was 2 solitudes, I agree there are more in that way, don't forget native and I mean all of them.

Can't forget 'em. I lived on a rez and have the scars to remember it by. Horrid place, lovely land. :) And no, you didn't refer to the Two Solitudes specifically in this case, but you once again fell back on defining things as "English speaking Canada" thinking one thing, and Quebec thinking another -- a binary worldview. One and zero. Two solitudes in all but name.

My point is that it does no good to avoid the term unless you avoid the pattern of thought and/or communication. To claim that all of English-speaking Canada holds a singular opinion on any matter is a grotesque over-simplification. As you point out, there are many native groups to consider, the village-minded approach of Newfoundlanders, the progressive thought of BC, the very neo-conservative flavour of certain factions in Alberta, the mix of socialism and conservatism in Saskatchewan... and even those are simplifications. Even in your own province; it can't be denied that the political atmosphere of Montreal is at all similar to northern Quebec, where the Seperatists hold strongest sway (if I recall correctly).

All, I was saying is that Rick Mercer is probably known all across Canada because the CBC is showning him all across Canada. TV is the medium to reach the most people. I just don't have the cable and I've got 4 channels in french and 2 in english. And I don't watch the english ones. And I'm not the only ones. So all the Mercer and company, unless they are translated in french, I don't see. Ok, I admit I watch it sometimes for Chilly Beach which I find interesting because it was so totally Canadian and I liked the unique look in it. But then again I could not identify with Jacques since he's accent is all wrong :twisted:

I certainly don't watch French-speaking CBC -- I wouldn't understand enough to make it worth my while (which bugs me). But I do try to keep up on news pertaining to Quebec as much as I do any other province. To have a sense of the national scene requires an effort in that direction. So long as someone chooses to think regionally, they'll remain on that track. An overall view of the nation will never develop for those who don't seek it, and that holds true whether they live in Quebec, the Yukon, or Nova Scotia.

What makes a nation glue together and feel it's a part of that nation? I still don't really know. I'm talking about feeling, not if it's right or wrong or if it's true or not. Just feeling. If my pop culture in unknown in the rest of Canada what does it say about the rest? I wonder, and I think again, if we are to continue this subject it should be outside the forum not to bored everyone with it.

The feeling is valid, but it's important to understand that it's one based on the choice of isolation, and that you're not alone in chosing that isolation. The same thing occurs in other provinces. Alberta's been the most notorious over the last two to three years, I'd say -- chiefly because of certain political currents informing the flow of information rather than the other way around (both inside Alberta and out).

As for questioning what it means when one's perception of modern culture is unknown to another demographic -- that's a good one. It's also a widespread one, though rarely framed in that way. But it's a problem that spans not only the many, many other cultural groups in the nation, but traditionally divides age groups as well. Let's face it: pop culture always has been, and always will be, somewhat divisive because of its transitory nature. To see what makes the foundation of what we are, we need to look at more enduring trends.

NEP? sorry I don't usually have the same acronysm than you, so, I can easily lost you on that.

National Energy Program -- a very controversial program introduced under Trudeau's government that held oil prices for Canadians down at a level that kept our economy cruising along. The popular (though not entirely correct) perception is that the government interfering cost Alberta a great deal of prosperity, and sent them into a financial tailspin from which they've only just recovered.

The truth is that the financial issues were much bigger and more complex than the NEP, and though it may have been instituted in an unpalatable manner, its contribution to such problems is highly debateable. Its positive effect on keeping the rest of the nation out of an abysmal recession, however, is tangible. The program has made for an easy target for Alberta politicians looking to further their careers by picking fights with the federal government because they can always just point at the pain in the ass that was the NEP and scream "remember what they did to us!".

What such politicians fail to mention is that it was the Federal government, under Trudeau's guidance, that pushed heavily for the development of the oil sands, and put up millions upon millions of dollars (in the late 1960's, when a million dollars was an obscene amount of money) to help that province launch the development of the oil fields that are now responsible for it's remarkable prosperity.

So long as we, as citizens, lack scope and focus in our perception of national issues, we serve as tools for the politicians -- rather than the politicians serving us.

And yes, we're probably going to bore people to death again. ;) On the other hand, I think these discussions of ours provide a pretty distinct view of our nation for curious readers from outside.

bigbloo

09-14-2006, 08:35 AM

So long as we, as citizens, lack scope and focus in our perception of national issues, we serve as tools for the politicians -- rather than the politicians serving us.

And yes, we're probably going to bore people to death again. ;) On the other hand, I think these discussions of ours provide a pretty distinct view of our nation for curious readers from outside.

I really appreciate the discussion. Ever since I started reading Alpha I've always been interested in Canada and this is a good way of learning a bit more about the place where my favorite heroes originated. :)

Thanks you guys for taking all this time to answer. :)

Northcott

09-14-2006, 02:30 PM

I really appreciate the discussion. Ever since I started reading Alpha I've always been interested in Canada and this is a good way of learning a bit more about the place where my favorite heroes originated. :)

Thanks you guys for taking all this time to answer. :)

I'm just glad that Sylvie and I aren't boring people to death. :) Before work ate me up I was a political junkie, always keeping an eye on what the people in power were up to, and sometimes predicting their moves ahead of time based on their philsophies and what seemed to be efficient strategies. I'm also a nut for history and cultural studies. So living in this place, which is really just a giant mish-mash of many cultures, provides someone like me with dizzying opportunities. :)

syvalois

09-20-2006, 05:13 PM

Ah, Mitsou is a good example of what an Aurora should be.

Agreed! She was my inspiration when thinking about that character. :)

Musically, though, I can't say that I'm grabbed by either her or Blue Rodeo. That's why I made the "easier on the eyes" comment. The sound just didn't do it for me. I've found her show for CBC, Au Courant, to be very informative.

Well, only her first and second album are well known, the rest pretty much went unoticed. And I was not talking about her as a singer, but as a person, she can say very interesting things.

Af for that show there was a polemic about it. Like why gave that segment to an entertainer when it's a journalistic job. There was a lot more people here capable of doing that like Nathalie Petrowski but it was said Mitsou was choosen because she was eyes candy.

Speaking of Nathalie Petrowski, you got to see the movie based on her novel "Maman last call" with Patrick Huard and Sophie Lorrain. That is a really good movie.

Funny, you only know Mitsou because of a CBC show...:twisted:

Your comment about only knowing that they're not American being if you're told that... well, that pretty much holds true of any celebrity. Their state of being is not impacted by your not knowing... if that makes any sense.

euh, no. I don't understand. I mean I can say without been told that Ewan McGregor is not american, I can hear it. But I don't see the difference in northern americans and canadians. Ok, I'm not the best at this game since I've got an hard times understanding Newfoundlander accent to the general canadian accent unless I've got an exemple of each in front of me. And I mean, I'm not the only one.

The comment about disconnect of Pop Culture is a specific reference: there's a gap in the perception of elements of pop culture. That which is modern, current, and transient doesn't carry over well between the cultures in Canada because of various language barriers -- though this is noticeably less with most cultural groups, as they maintain two languages. It still exists, however.

I don't follow you there. But how come I know american pop culture and I don't know yours? or you don't know mine? Yes, I know why you don't know mine, it's in french and you don't speak it. But do I know american pop culture because it's been translated or for another reason? (asking the question to you and to myself there).

I don't know but for an outsider Canada is pretty much the US but nicer (that's what I've been told by an englishman). The problem with Canada english canada I mean, is that it do not have a distinctive voice compare to the US pop culture. Too much of the american pop culture comes from canadians, so nothing left for the people staying inside the country to do a distinctive things. And worst of all, you end up with canadian production that look like american wannabees. Why we see canadians defining themselves more as what they are not compared to the US (See the Molson canadian ads)? An inferiority complexe to the american, yes, I can see it with AF also. But why? Economical domination by the US?

In this website The Great Canadian Guide to the Movies (and TV) (http://www.pulpanddagger.com/movies/filmtv.html) the guy been trying to find for ages why it's like that in Canada. But most of the subject and query he's got don't concern francophone Quebec.

Yes, pop culture for me is very important as defining who I am. Because that pop culture is supposed to be a reflect of who we are and I can see this in many tv series and film done here.

But I agree, It's not everything.It's also food, religion, history, philosophy, school, economic activities etc. The list can be long. We should do a list and try to fill it with what we consider being our culture.

Pop culture is not the be-all and end-all of our society or our national identity, however. And thank goodness for that. :) The deeper roots of who we are as a nation tends to be uniform -- with an accent on "tends to be". There are, of course, differences. The political gulf between Alberta and Quebec is remarkably vast, for example...

But what is our national identity? What do you find national about Canada? Maple sirup? There is no sugar maple in the west, no sugar shack. As some westerner said once, if QuÃ©bec separate, Canada should change there flag since the majority of the maple sirop are made in QuÃ©bec. But again, that leaf is maybe not a sugar maple.

I can say what is my Quebec identity(maybe not clearly but it shine in me and I've got a good idea), but as a canadian it's obscur, I got one somewhere, I know that, but it's not strong and I can't say what it is. I know I feel canadian because quebec is an integrale part of Canadian history, I know I like the peaceful approche, but most of those stuff can be attributed to occidental country too. Health care is seen in France and Great britain too (they also have similar problems than we do).

which is, I suppose, why watching the Seperatists work hand-in-hand with Harper's inner circle blows my mind. They really couldn't be farther apart in their beliefs, save perhaps in the desire to decentralize the power of national government to the point of ineffectuality. (But this doesn't quite hold true when Harper himself is in power, of course)

What's wrong with decentralizing the central power? At would ensure Quebec to stay in Canada. That's what many separatist wants. It Ottawa was to give to the province more powers, they would stay in Canada. My dad would actually, he said so.

??? We are at it again!

It's ON, girlfriend! :D [/quote]

We should really move this topic to another section and name it like "The never ending argument.

I never said there was 2 solitudes, I agree there are more in that way, don't forget native and I mean all of them.

Can't forget 'em. I lived on a rez and have the scars to remember it by. Horrid place, lovely land. :) And no, you didn't refer to the Two Solitudes specifically in this case, but you once again fell back on defining things as "English speaking Canada" thinking one thing, and Quebec thinking another -- a binary worldview. One and zero. Two solitudes in all but name.

Maybe, but maybe you would understand better if you could see the shows I see, the news and everything reported directly in french to really see without a translator who is changing a little bit the message, maybe you would understand better. Maybe not also. I must say I like Canada, thinks it's a great country and all, but when canadians talk in forum and other places and say we canadians... Well, in many places that do not apply to me and that leaves me with the feeling that I'm not canadian.

Ok, I must admit that the core being of my identity comes from being francophone, living in a majority of francophone in north america. Anything outside that is another culture to me. Acadians are another culture to me. I've got links to it, they are like cousins, like the french are to us. And I must admit Quebecers have not always been nice to acadians.Many have the same reproach as quebecers do about english canadians.

My point is that it does no good to avoid the term unless you avoid the pattern of thought and/or communication. To claim that all of English-speaking Canada holds a singular opinion on any matter is a grotesque over-simplification.

Can you repete that in simplier terms, if you don't I will start to answer in french, I've got an hard time figuring a good translation sometimes.

Even in your own province; it can't be denied that the political atmosphere of Montreal is at all similar to northern Quebec, where the Seperatists hold strongest sway (if I recall correctly).

I would not say the north. See for yourself :
province map (http://www.pum.umontreal.ca/apqc/95_96/drouilly/car03.gif)
Montreal region (http://www.pum.umontreal.ca/apqc/95_96/drouilly/car03.gif)

I certainly don't watch French-speaking CBC -- I wouldn't understand enough to make it worth my while (which bugs me). But I do try to keep up on news pertaining to Quebec as much as I do any other province. To have a sense of the national scene requires an effort in that direction. So long as someone chooses to think regionally, they'll remain on that track. An overall view of the nation will never develop for those who don't seek it, and that holds true whether they live in Quebec, the Yukon, or Nova Scotia.[quote]

True again, but I like to watch the news mostly in Radio-Canada because they are the most neutral. But even them don't talk much about the west. And they don't report the same way that the CBC do. To give you an idea, it's a joke from about 15/20 years ago, a very popular group in Quebec named RBO made this joke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am2ifnfg-C0). Not the best and they go a little bit over the top, but the separatist and french name pronounciation do sound true even tho it's also exagerated. And I do have the choice to watch the news in both language, which you don't have. (that was a little bit mean, hein?)

[quote]The feeling is valid, but it's important to understand that it's one based on the choice of isolation, and that you're not alone in chosing that isolation. The same thing occurs in other provinces. Alberta's been the most notorious over the last two to three years, I'd say -- chiefly because of certain political currents informing the flow of information rather than the other way around (both inside Alberta and out).

Isolation to the rest of Canada, yes maybe, that is the case but not to the rest of the world. I went to other countries, Gabon, Russia, France, Breat Brittain (Scotland actually), Colombia. I've seen many provinces (for a week end mostly) and I do still think the same. The canadian identity is to obscur to me.

As for questioning what it means when one's perception of modern culture is unknown to another demographic -- that's a good one. It's also a widespread one, though rarely framed in that way. But it's a problem that spans not only the many, many other cultural groups in the nation, but traditionally divides age groups as well. Let's face it: pop culture always has been, and always will be, somewhat divisive because of its transitory nature. To see what makes the foundation of what we are, we need to look at more enduring trends.

Like Aurore ? SÃ©raphin? Le Survenant? Maurice Richard? Or if you like The Beatles, Elvis Presley, the Monthy Pythons? The first names I gave you are all movies recently made based on the collective memory.

You know the story of Aurore (http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/gagnon/accueil/indexen.html), I like to make the link to our AF Aurora.

What such politicians fail to mention is that it was the Federal government, under Trudeau's guidance, that pushed heavily for the development of the oil sands, and put up millions upon millions of dollars (in the late 1960's, when a million dollars was an obscene amount of money) to help that province launch the development of the oil fields that are now responsible for it's remarkable prosperity.

That's what I like about our discussions, I'm learning stuff.

So long as we, as citizens, lack scope and focus in our perception of national issues, we serve as tools for the politicians -- rather than the politicians serving us.

I don't totally agree on this. I agree, we must see the big picture, but sometimes to act the more effectively, is to go directly to the source. As for Quebec identity/want of separation, it's not only politicians that talk about it. No, not only politicians. See this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1zorKnHzkI)

Ouf! It's taking really to much time for me to answer that and I'm sure it's all confused and not clear and repeating myself. Anyway, you get it that way. Ed, are you sure other people are reading this? I'm sure Oeming left a long time ago thinking we are crazy.

Ok, just for fun, I'm giving a link to RBO satire at quebecois and americans. It's mean for both groups.
there (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHRTMRXnW4M)

Also here an quebec history (part 1 & 2) seen by RBO, they do include the acadian deportation, which never was part of Quebec, but eh, what the...
part1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZhmbfCU08)
part2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcalpThN2vw)

syvalois

09-21-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:
Even in your own province; it can't be denied that the political atmosphere of Montreal is at all similar to northern Quebec, where the Seperatists hold strongest sway (if I recall correctly).

I would not say the north. See for yourself :
province map
Montreal region

Oups, ok, not really understandable here. This a map of the 95 referendum result. I thnk it's pretty representative of the opinion.

SephirothsKiller

09-22-2006, 12:08 PM

Oups, ok, not really understandable here. This a map of the 95 referendum result. I thnk it's pretty representative of the opinion.

Current opinion or past opinion?? I really think that this discussion is a bit too much "seperatist" related right now though. Don't wanna give Oeming the impressiong that Canada is made up of people obsessed with it. Its really not even that big an issue right now...

I haven't read all the posts but the one thing I wanna make clear about Canada to you Mr. Oeming is that its heavily regionalized. What that means is that not only do Quebecers often see themselves as Quebecers first, under the umbrella of Canadianism, but the rest of Canada sees themselves the same way.
To give a simplified explaination: Newfoundlanders are extremely proud of their roots, as are Maritimers, (go us!) and Ontarians, Prarie dogs, Northerners, and British Colomians, and Albertans (and of course Le Quebecois.) We all make fun of each other, and each of these areas has a very distinct way of doing thing compared to the rest of Canada.

The best example would be British Colombia and Alberta.

Alberta is the most conservative place in Canada, (and the richest,) yet its next door neighbour has long been known for its liberal views (and high level of physical fitness.) If pot were suddenly legalized in BC it would be its number one industry. Vancouver is also tied with Oslo as the worlds best city to live in.

Hmmm... I suggest doing some Ethnography Mr. Oeming. (Go live for six months in the province which OF will be headquartered in.) It'll help show you the difference in cultures between U.S. and Canadian.

Transmetropolitan

09-22-2006, 04:22 PM

To be fair, there's a heavy amount of regionalism stateside, too. zRussia? They've got it too. Hell, Germany has regionalistic cultural differences.

It's true of any country.
And conveniently ignored whenever a writer, director, what have you isn;t from the nation in question.

syvalois

09-22-2006, 05:20 PM

syvalois

09-22-2006, 06:28 PM

[quote=syvalois]
Current opinion or past opinion??

the shades and pourcent may change a little but I would say it do not change much. I mean in the big picture. But people are not ready for another referendum, They don't like the statue quo either, people are waiting for something new, or God, I don't know. I would say without a big survey that about 40% of the population is a fencesitter (I think it's the term) and that fencesitter consider themselves quebecer first and somewhere maybe Canadians, but for most it's a bipolar view. Like when bon Cop, bad cop came out, the newspapers where asking if the movie would do as good in the ROC. Which I learned meant : rest of Canada.

I really think that this discussion is a bit too much "seperatist" related right now though. Don't wanna give Oeming the impressiong that Canada is made up of people obsessed with it. Its really not even that big an issue right now...

Sorry, you are right. even tho some are really obsessed with it, but I agree, it's not the majority. But it is part of the picture. I just want to say, it's not evil, it's a point of view, to agree or disagree on.

I haven't read all the posts but the one thing I wanna make clear about Canada to you Mr. Oeming is that its heavily regionalized. What that means is that not only do Quebecers often see themselves as Quebecers first, under the umbrella of Canadianism, but the rest of Canada sees themselves the same way.

That's interesting. I never really got that impression before except from Newfoundlanders. In a way it makes more sense to me. Why a federal gouv less powerfull would be maybe better. We may ask the Brits what they think of their system or the US since they seem to have more state powers (from what I was told).

SephirothsKiller

09-22-2006, 11:00 PM

[quote] I haven't read all the posts but the one thing I wanna make clear about Canada to you Mr. Oeming is that its heavily regionalized. What that means is that not only do Quebecers often see themselves as Quebecers first, under the umbrella of Canadianism, but the rest of Canada sees themselves the same way.

That's interesting. I never really got that impression before except from Newfoundlanders. In a way it makes more sense to me. Why a federal gouv less powerfull would be maybe better. We may ask the Brits what they think of their system or the US since they seem to have more state powers (from what I was told).

Yah. I know a teacher who has taught all across Canada and almost every time he asks a class whether they consider themselves to be say, maritimers, (Newfoundlanders, etc,) first or Canadians, he almost always gets the response of maritimers. I don't think its as extreme as Quebec, where its Quebec first, and Canada maybe. And in Newfoundland its sort of the fact that they didn't even join Canada until 1948, and were heavily isolated from the rest of english Canada by a big piece of Quebec.

I'm not sure if I would want heavy provincial independance though, as I think that our country is pretty much built on the "umbrella culture." Take Toronto, where you have entire villages worth of people where people can only speak Polish. Or Vancouver, where you have a towns worth of people who can only speak Cantonese.

Is it true that there's a mass outflow of Anglophones out of Quebec right now because it looks like the Liberals won't win the election? Thats what my friend from Montreal told me.

There's definately some merit to the arguement of Quebecer's wanting to leave though, who would want to stay when we have Prime Minister-
I'm gonna stop now before I voice some strong opinons.

syvalois

09-23-2006, 12:40 PM

I'm not sure if I would want heavy provincial independance though, as I think that our country is pretty much built on the "umbrella culture." Take Toronto, where you have entire villages worth of people where people can only speak Polish. Or Vancouver, where you have a towns worth of people who can only speak Cantonese.

I don't understand what ou mean by "umbrella culture" or the explaination you gave. Sorry:cry:

Is it true that there's a mass outflow of Anglophones out of Quebec right now because it looks like the Liberals won't win the election? Thats what my friend from Montreal told me.

I really don't think so. People are really not happy with Charest, but the PQ is not in such a good state either and I'm not talking the ADQ or QuÃ©bec solidaire (the new to much to the left party). And if they are afraid of the PQ been in power, they should have left like 30 years ago.

We all know that the PQ even if he wins can't declare independance without a referendum. So we just elect them because they have a better political agenda and we don't want another Duplessis rules, it lead to corruption. Don't you agree?

SephirothsKiller

09-23-2006, 12:57 PM

I'm not sure if I would want heavy provincial independance though, as I think that our country is pretty much built on the "umbrella culture." Take Toronto, where you have entire villages worth of people where people can only speak Polish. Or Vancouver, where you have a towns worth of people who can only speak Cantonese.

I don't understand what ou mean by "umbrella culture" or the explaination you gave. Sorry:cry:

Basically what I'm getting at is that I think it might be odd to give alot of independance to various places, since Canada is multicultural to the point where weakening national ties could really hurt the country. Personally I think that if increasingly independant provinces is the answer they will evolve through our very flexible constitution.

I really don't think so. People are really not happy with Charest, but the PQ is not in such a good state either and I'm not talking the ADQ or QuÃ©bec solidaire (the new to much to the left party). And if they are afraid of the PQ been in power, they should have left like 30 years ago.

We all know that the PQ even if he wins can't declare independance without a referendum. So we just elect them because they have a better political agenda and we don't want another Duplessis rules, it lead to corruption. Don't you agree?

Yah I do totally agree. I always figured that the PQ had to be elected for something other than sovereignty. Never heard of the solidaire though. What are they? A semi-communist separitist party?

syvalois

09-23-2006, 10:21 PM

Basically what I'm getting at is that I think it might be odd to give alot of independance to various places, since Canada is multicultural to the point where weakening national ties could really hurt the country. Personally I think that if increasingly independant provinces is the answer they will evolve through our very flexible constitution.

what national ties? What I'm afraid is when the federal get involve in stuff that are of provincial autority and they do it too often.

Never heard of the solidaire though. What are they? A semi-communist separitist party?

Like they say in their webpage, it's a political party born form the fusion of option citoyenne et UFP, based on ecological, left and feminist value.

The old leaders of each mouvement is now what they call a "porte-parole"and they are FranÃ§oise David and Amir Khadir. And yes, they are also for the sovereignty. But I must admit they are a little bit too much on the left side for me.

SephirothsKiller

09-24-2006, 12:02 AM

Basically what I'm getting at is that I think it might be odd to give alot of independance to various places, since Canada is multicultural to the point where weakening national ties could really hurt the country. Personally I think that if increasingly independant provinces is the answer they will evolve through our very flexible constitution.

what national ties? What I'm afraid is when the federal get involve in stuff that are of provincial autority and they do it too often.

I don't follow. Since when did the federal government have anything to do with controlling Quebec? Education, Health Care, and pretty much everything else. The only times that government interferes is when it gives out money. And while I don't necessarily agree with that, its not that big a deal. Hell, the government doesn't even seem to interfere when a province violates the charter.

But whatever, I was going on about how I think the discussion is too sovereignty related, and now I'm debating it. No more!

syvalois

09-24-2006, 12:57 AM

I don't follow. Since when did the federal government have anything to do with controlling Quebec? Education, Health Care, and pretty much everything else. The only times that government interferes is when it gives out money. And while I don't necessarily agree with that, its not that big a deal. Hell, the government doesn't even seem to interfere when a province violates the charter.

But whatever, I was going on about how I think the discussion is too sovereignty related, and now I'm debating it. No more!

Lol, I was going to say that for the other subject. For that one, I don't think it's too sovereignty related, we may redefine Canada here and make an agreement so QuÃ©bec can stay in Canada, no? No separation involved ! :wink:

I was talking about stuff like the millenium scholarship, where education is not the federal gouv juridiction. And other more sensible things.

SephirothsKiller

09-25-2006, 12:01 AM

Lol, I was going to say that for the other subject. For that one, I don't think it's too sovereignty related, we may redefine Canada here and make an agreement so QuÃ©bec can stay in Canada, no? No separation involved ! :wink:

I was talking about stuff like the millenium scholarship, where education is not the federal gouv juridiction. And other more sensible things.

Yah you do make a bunch of valid points... And I for one know perfectly well the woes of scholarship troubles. Federal ones are rediculous, and my government doesn't havy any. I almost wish the feds would get involved because the N.S. school system is atrocious, and our provincial government does nothing about it.

Add that to the fact that my province has the highest tuition and I'm screwed. I kept begging my parents to buy like a square foot of land in Quebec so we could qualify for the Quebecer tuition price. :lol:

Effexxor

10-17-2006, 12:36 AM

This is so freaking interesting. Especially hearing about the Quebecois (sp?) point of view. I'm from Nebraska, and there just isn't a lot of diversity here. We have the Hispanics in Omaha thanks to the meat industry and African Americans and then mostly German Americans or Irish Americans and... that's kind of it.

What I thought was really interesting about Canada was the sheer amount of native americans that I saw. In Nebraska, I've met two people who are mostly Native American. Then I go to Alberta, go into and A&W and... I'm surrounded. It was cool, I'd just spent that summer filling out grant requests for reservations, but it was bizarre. Granted, it may have just been Alberta.

Also, do y'all have any Taco Bell's? I didn't see one and it just about killed me. All I saw was A&W. That was odd too, because I've only seen two A&W's in Nebraska in my life.

I have to say though, if Canada dropped off the face of the planet, I mourn the loss of Degrassi. That's a brilliant piece of television right there. And god but is it ever addictive.

Can anyone tell me some really scathing Quebecois (sp?) curse words, by chance? I know curse words in German, Yiddish, Spanish and Cadre (Gotta love X Force and Shatterstar) and it would be cool to expand my repetoire.

-K-M-

10-17-2006, 01:24 AM

Also, do y'all have any Taco Bell's? I didn't see one and it just about killed me. All I saw was A&W. That was odd too, because I've only seen two A&W's in Nebraska in my life.

Oh yeah we have lots of Taco Bells, heck in my area where I live there is 5+ stores. However, they all have turned into a KFC/Taco Bell hybrid now.

syvalois

10-17-2006, 01:34 AM

This is so freaking interesting. Especially hearing about the Quebecois (sp?) point of view.

Well, I'm not representative of all the Quebecers, but I do think I'm not an alien in my province. :P

What I thought was really interesting about Canada was the sheer amount of native americans that I saw.

It depends where you live, in some area, you just won't see many or like in Loretteville near QuÃ©bec City and the Huron village(Wendake as the like better to be called) there is so much intermariage that the native have green eyes and red hairs, so not easy to see in a mass, but the culture is there, which is the most important anyway.

Also, do y'all have any Taco Bell's? I didn't see one and it just about killed me. All I saw was A&W. That was odd too, because I've only seen two A&W's in Nebraska in my life.

From my understanding there is none in QuÃ©bec. We do have Mc Do, BugerKings, Pizza Hut, A&W and all that bad stuff. There is a lot more choice of a good restaurant, good food at low price than that list above here and if you really want disgusting no good for the healt but good to the taste, it's got to be a poutine from the local french fried stand (le stand Ã* patates)(Sorry, I feel a little bit snobish here :wink: ).

Can anyone tell me some really scathing Quebecois (sp?) curse words, by chance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity

for the usual ones.

And if I remember correctly, some expressions are not right but in general it's true and some are very, very vulgar

http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/Quebecois.1.html#so0

Mokole

10-17-2006, 02:52 AM

In my southern prairie local we have only KFC but in Moose Jaw they've got Mcd's, Burger Burner I mean Baron, Dairy Queen, Arby's, A&W, more I guess, lots of other more sit-down type of restaurants, 4 in the town closest to me too. After all, Saskatchewan is the eating-out capital of Canada (I lived in North Battleford for years, and we had more restauraunts per capita than anywhere in Canada.)

Canucklehead

10-17-2006, 08:09 AM

In Moncton, NB, we have every fast food place there is. Also I have heard we have the most Tim Horton's per capita in all of North America (there's litterally one on almot every street corner, inside every mall and outside those very malls). We've got everything from TacoBell, KFC, BurgerKing, MacDonald's, Harveys, A&W, Sub Way, Ed's Sub, Arbeys, Dixy Lee, Wendy's, Pizza Delight, Pizza Twice, Greco Pizza, Dominos, Vito's, Pizza Hut, Delux, NY Fries, again Tim Horton's and many many more. We never really had any nice restaurants except for a couple snooty places that eventually closed. Finally though we are the second fastest growing city in Canada next to Calgary, so we're getting some nicer places like Montana's Steak House, East Side Mario's and a few other places.

We're also the first official Bilingual city in Canada (Ottawa second :P) so you need to be biligual to get a job here (especially if you work at any of the above restaurants).

We're not exactly diverse here either. We have French and English. That's about it. I just moved back from Vancouver where half the population and 90% of my students were asian. I miss that diversity. 8)

syvalois

10-17-2006, 05:00 PM

for restaurants, I forgot somes but some of the names mean nothing to me. I know Dixie Lee because I was raised in the east in QuÃ©bec where the restaurant is seen, if I was from the west it would be PFK(or if you like KFC in english).

I've got a little story about restaurant. I was in Ontario and we went to rooster BBQthinking it would be nice to go to a restaurant we never been in, just to realise after eating that in fact the restaurant is also in QuÃ©bec but known as le Coq rÃ´ti.

I've got other stuff like that :

staples=bureau en gros
beaver ???=castor bricoleur
the bay=la Baie
KFC=PFK
and many mores that I forget

Effexxor

10-17-2006, 11:28 PM

Also I have heard we have the most Tim Horton's per capita in all of North America (there's litterally one on almot every street corner, inside every mall and outside those very malls).

That kinda reminds me of Walgreens. You can't breathe in Omaha without seeing a Walgreens. And they're all overpriced and stuff and it's a parasite. *grumbles*

The Great Canadian Tire Store threw me through a loop too, I must stay. It made no sense for a tire store to be that big and I was confused as to why on earth Canadians needed that many tires. Then my cousin explained it to me and I felt like a bit of a dolt.

Good to know that there are Taco Bells in Canada. That's comforting. Makes everything seem right in the world.

Oh, and I've been getting the best kick out of my friends by showing them two dollar coins. I kind of wish I'd saved some paper bills too, but oh well.

Legerd

10-17-2006, 11:46 PM

The Great Canadian Tire Store threw me through a loop too, I must stay. It made no sense for a tire store to be that big and I was confused as to why on earth Canadians needed that many tires. Then my cousin explained it to me and I felt like a bit of a dolt.

Oh, and I've been getting the best kick out of my friends by showing them two dollar coins. I kind of wish I'd saved some paper bills too, but oh well.

Did you see the Canadian Tire money? Yeah, the store actually prints its own money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_Money

SephirothsKiller

10-18-2006, 12:17 AM

Halifax has more bars in its down town than any other place in the world (per capita.) This stat seems suspect to me but everywhere I go its repeated. St. John's has George St, which is a street which only has bars on it. Its diverse in Halifax. Especially the Universities. So many Asians.... There's even a restaurant which caters specifically to the Japanese population on the campus of one of the universities.

Effexxor

10-18-2006, 12:18 AM

Dude. That is kinda creepy.

It's like... A Great Canadian Cult.

My mind is officially boggled.

syvalois

10-18-2006, 11:11 AM

Good to know that there are Taco Bells in Canada. That's comforting. Makes everything seem right in the world.

Can I ask why? You're a Taco Bells addict? What are you going to do if you go in Europe? One of the fun of travelling is doing new stuff, tasting new food. I know it's not always obvious, but let face it Canada is not like Burkina Faso, it's pretty much the same, no?

I've never tasted a taco bell meal, but somehow, it don't really got a good reputation from my undertanding. I've heard, it's the same level as McDo or Pizza Hut, Did I hear right? I hope not, because I can't stand pizza Hut, my liver goes mad and I'm always feeling sick after eating there.

Effexxor

10-18-2006, 11:22 AM

Can I ask why? You're a Taco Bells addict? What are you going to do if you go in Europe? One of the fun of travelling is doing new stuff, tasting new food. I know it's not always obvious, but let face it Canada is not like Burkina Faso, it's pretty much the same, no?

I've never tasted a taco bell meal, but somehow, it don't really got a good reputation from my undertanding. I've heard, it's the same level as McDo or Pizza Hut, Did I hear right? I hope not, because I can't stand pizza Hut, my liver goes mad and I'm always feeling sick after eating there.

Taco Bell is good, but more importantly, it's cheap. You can get a big filling meal for 2 dollars, and that's with a drink.

What will I do in Europe? I'll try new things and eat new food, but I'll still be longing for the familiar. Human nature, I guess. And yeah, Canada is pretty similar to America, but it still has those little differences that are really freaking interesting. I'm a sociology major, so I like hearing about this kinda stuff. Besides, I want to live in Canada one day, so it'll be good to know about this.

Transmetropolitan

10-18-2006, 04:04 PM

Taco Bell is good, but more importantly, it's cheap. You can get a big filling meal for 2 dollars, and that's with a drink.

This needs to be editied/reparsed-

"Taco Bell is vile, but more importantly, it's capable of sending you to the toilet for hours on end. You can get a nasty heap of ill-prepared "Mexican" food for more money than than it could ever be worth."

Anyway.

On a related note- when in Italy, I was disgusted by how many of my fellow Yanks went to McDOnald's. We were in Italy.

Travel is a good excuse to eat5 differently. You can yearn for the familiar as you head home....

Effexxor

10-18-2006, 05:01 PM

On a related note- when in Italy, I was disgusted by how many of my fellow Yanks went to McDOnald's. We were in Italy.

Travel is a good excuse to eat5 differently. You can yearn for the familiar as you head home....

I agree, but when everything else in bewildering and making no sense, it's nice to have some connection back to the 'real' world.

And Taco Bell has never made me sick. Granted, I may be blessed with the iron stomach of a teenager, but it always stays quite happily in my stomach.

syvalois

10-19-2006, 01:37 AM

On a related note- when in Italy, I was disgusted by how many of my fellow Yanks went to McDOnald's. We were in Italy.

I must say it's not always easy to go to unknown restraurants where you think of the salubrity may get you sick. But at the same time trying new food is so fun.

I also knew someone that went to many countries and eat at McDo at every places and the only time she did not like it was when she was in the US. Strange no?

I agree, but when everything else in bewildering and making no sense, it's nice to have some connection back to the 'real' world.

It's really nice to have those quotation mark, because otherwise I knew people that would be offended by that comment. Let me explain.

For the story I had been europe for over a month in total with people of different nationalities, but in this case mostly french. We where in France when a new bunch of different nationalities arrived. After 1 week the only american said he wanted a real breakfest.

The french where offended and I understood what he meant but I also understood the french. By saying real breakfast, he was implying that the french breakfast was not as good or as valide as his. Like there is only one good breakfest. What he meant, and I understood very well after 1 month in Europe was the hurge to taste the breakfast that we are use to, the one we have at home. At that point, I would have done almost anything to have big sliced bread, but I would not say it's real bread.

Just to say, it's not the "real" world but "your" world.

As for other countries and the little things that makes them differents,I could go on and on for hours. I've been in many countries, sadly not enough long or with the local enough to really understood them. But still, I had a glimps and it did change me, I hope for the best.

Effexxor

10-19-2006, 12:56 PM

Glad you noticed the quotes. :D By the 'real' world, I meant the familiar, the world we live in when we're home. Not to say that anything besides our world is bad, but it just simply isn't a familiar part of our worlds and lives. And humans just plain like repetition. We're a race that likes structure in general. Not to say that we don't like changes, because we do. But we all have that fundamental little thing that if it changes, we go insane. For instance? I'm a terrible wuss on sleeping. I'm not the type to stay up all night and sleep all day. If I go to sleep at 5 in the morning, I'll wake up at 8, without fail. And when I feel homesick, eating something spicy and mexican always makes me feel better.

That was just ramble... but whatever. It's early in the morning.

Northcott

10-23-2006, 12:23 AM

Lordy! With everything going on in my life, I completely forgot about this discussion! :) I'll try and keep this really brief.

Re: Government money, scholarships, health care, etc
People may not like the conditions put on such money by the federal government, but the raw and unshakeable truth of the matter is that if the government simply handed money out they would be grossly negligent. The system is already abused with the current strictures in place. Without them the abuse would be unfathomable.

Re: Multiculturalism and federalism
Seph stated what I think with far fewer words and far more elegantly. What it boils down to is that because we haven't been two solitudes for many a year now, but a multicultural society made up of countless cultural pockets both new and old, dividing governmental power based on cultural concerns is a self-defeating prospect. Perhaps even worse is the current standard by which that measure is applied unfairly and with bias.

As Seph also pointed out, the constitution is set up so that these issues have a path to smooth themselves over given the course of time. One of the big hullabaloos is that Quebec refuses to sign on to the constitution.

Re: Nationalism and Newfoundland
Newfoundlanders are, for the most part, very nationalistic. While many may self-identify as Newfoundlanders first and foremost, and while it's the newest province in Confederation, they're fiercely proud of the red and white. The national scuffles that have occured since Williams took office are regarded as a necessary evil, and at the core of each tiff has been the message "we're proud Canadians and we're not threatening to walk off, but we need to sort this out".

Funny, you only know Mitsou because of a CBC show...:twisted:

Actually, I know her because of "Bye Bye Mon Cowboy". ;) MuchMusic in the 80's. The CBC's mandate is, however, to serve as a cornerstone of Canadian culture through dissemination of information, creating a shared language of experience and knowledge -- within limits, of course. It makes perfect sense that Au Courant would be an addition to its programming. :)

But what is our national identity? What do you find national about Canada? Maple sirup? There is no sugar maple in the west, no sugar shack. As some westerner said once, if QuÃ©bec separate, Canada should change there flag since the majority of the maple sirop are made in QuÃ©bec. But again, that leaf is maybe not a sugar maple.

I can say what is my Quebec identity(maybe not clearly but it shine in me and I've got a good idea), but as a canadian it's obscur, I got one somewhere, I know that, but it's not strong and I can't say what it is. I know I feel canadian because quebec is an integrale part of Canadian history, I know I like the peaceful approche, but most of those stuff can be attributed to occidental country too. Health care is seen in France and Great britain too (they also have similar problems than we do).

Any culture is, by the nature of its complexity, a vast, ever-changing thing. You can't define Canadian culture? Define Quebecois culture. Will that definition hold when contrasted with the definition of a more urban, nationalistic point of view of someone from Montreal?

Culture is a slippery fish to try and catch. ;) We can only ever paint it in broad strokes, because if we delve too much into specifics the attempts at definition quickly fall apart. In the broad strokes, the central values of Quebec are very much in line with several other regions of Canada. Of all provinces I'd actually say that Alberta is the most different in that regard.

What's wrong with decentralizing the central power? At would ensure Quebec to stay in Canada. That's what many separatist wants. It Ottawa was to give to the province more powers, they would stay in Canada. My dad would actually, he said so.

I maintain that decentralization of power is a dangerous red herring used to keep politicans employed. On a fiscal scale, it's a fool's game. Canada's already losing some financial bargaining power on the global scale by catering to Quebec's desire to negotiate individually -- and Quebec's financial pull is low enough that your province is likely going to see some ripples from that move in the coming decade.

There are many situations where speaking for a vast number of people with a united voice has merit. It's for that reason that democratically elected governments were conceived of. The system currently in place works very well, and because of its population Quebec has traditionally held a great deal of power at the federal level (though that's now switching to the west as BC and Alberta just hit population booms and now exceed Quebec's numbers). The province would have been better served by utilizing that power in a constructive, rather than deconstructive, manner.

Removing federal powers and turning the PM's office into nothing more than a figurehead will hamstring the nation quite effectively -- but such a move will serve several small groups of people, particularly in certain industrial sectors, quite nicely.

Maurice Richard?

Was a God on skates. I was giddy like a kid at Christmas when I went through the Richard exhibit at the Museum of Civilization during a trip to Ottawa a couple years back. Caught it just before they closed it. :)

...

...Damn, but I'm long-winded.

syvalois

11-15-2006, 02:37 PM

Ok, sorry it took me so long. I'm not really good to express mself in french or english, so sorry. I'm still using the "us" or "we" when actually, I can't really say that, oh, well..

Re: Government money, scholarships, health care, etc
People may not like the conditions put on such money by the federal government, but the raw and unshakeable truth of the matter is that if the government simply handed money out they would be grossly negligent. The system is already abused with the current strictures in place. Without them the abuse would be unfathomable.

???? Did I miss something? I don't think anyone suggested to give money to the individual. For my part, I was saying the federal was intrusive in the provincial juridiction (exemple: the millenium scholarship or what ever you call it) and that money should have been given to the province.

Re: Multiculturalism and federalism
Seph stated what I think with far fewer words and far more elegantly. What it boils down to is that because we haven't been two solitudes for many a year now, but a multicultural society made up of countless cultural pockets both new and old, dividing governmental power based on cultural concerns is a self-defeating prospect. Perhaps even worse is the current standard by which that measure is applied unfairly and with bias.

As Seph also pointed out, the constitution is set up so that these issues have a path to smooth themselves over given the course of time. One of the big hullabaloos is that Quebec refuses to sign on to the constitution.

Ah, the constitution. History remember that day as Â« la nuit des longs couteaux Â» the night of the long knifes if you like. That do speak for itself.

I've got an hard time understanding that multicultural society, you talk of. It's like, it's ok, to have a jew, italian, greek, etc identity, but it leave no place to the Canadian identity to come up. What is it to be canadian? Why do you think Degrassi work so well, what makes it canadian?

I'm proud of what is made here(QuÃ©bec), I will support it more than the other product because I know like with songs or movies, it won't get out of the province, unless it's popular here, then it can be exported. But the exported market is very small.

What I like of the home product, makes people live here, get the industry running, if it's a movie or a song or a tv serie, I can see myself, my family in it. But most of all, I like it. Don't make me watch Loft Story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loft_Story), I can't stand it. But if I could watch Rumeurs (http://www.radio-canada.ca/television/rumeurs), listen to Mes Aieux (http://mesaieux.qc.ca) or Pierre Lapointe (http://www.pierrelapointe.com/), I will be very happy.

I did not had the molson canadian ad. We don't have Molson Canadian in QuÃ©bec, we don't define ourselve by what we are not. We don't usually get the same ads than you do. Never notice, Bell or other company usually do separate publicity for the francophone public, and usually it's mean QuÃ©bec.

I was in Halifax once, and I was watching Radio-Canada. I did not felt there was a lot of canada in Radio-Canada, it felt more like Radio-QuÃ©bec. I thing acadian deserve more than one or 2 shows homemade, that is not even shown in QuÃ©bec.

If I was a franco-ontarians, or acadians, I would get really frustrated looking at the french debate for the federal election. Only talks about QuÃ©bec and the debate is not really one since not all the candidates are fluent enough in french to follow the conversation. Do you get that in english?

Re: Nationalism and Newfoundland
Newfoundlanders are, for the most part, very nationalistic. While many may self-identify as Newfoundlanders first and foremost, and while it's the newest province in Confederation, they're fiercely proud of the red and white. The national scuffles that have occured since Williams took office are regarded as a necessary evil, and at the core of each tiff has been the message "we're proud Canadians and we're not threatening to walk off, but we need to sort this out".

Really? I've met a newfounlander saying it was the worst thing that happen to them when they join Canada, but you are the expert there. Who is Williams? But at least Newfoundand voted to join. QuÃ©bec never did. Remember the battle on the plaine d'Abraham? The conquest? When the french left us fight alone without sending people to help? Why should I identify with a country that left us (France), why should I care about a country that is a conqueror (Great Britain) and why should I care about a country that keep the conqueror symbols (The Queen is our president) and the gouvernor general is her representative. Tell me, it's only symbols, but they can talk a lot.

So, you see, I'm not from france, I'm not from Great Brittain, I'm not a american, I'm not also canadian as you are, so can I be QuÃ©bÃ©coise? A mix of all that with native blood in it, a lot of irish too, historically catholic, but not true anymore and speak french as a common language. I don't have common law but the code civil, because when the US made the independance war on Brits, well the brits where so scared we would join the US that they give us the french civil code.

Actually, I know her because of "Bye Bye Mon Cowboy". ;) MuchMusic in the 80's.

Wonder why they show her, to continu the stereotype Â« french canadian Â» image? She was 16 years old or something at the time, and she did not had a lot to say, except she liked to provoke. We are not used to Britney Spears in the QuÃ©bec cultural industry. The virgin **** as the journalist Foglia wrote about Spears is well almost unknown to us. Or you're a **** or you're a virgin, not both !:P Ok, spears is not a virgin anymore... And in both case, **** or virgin, I would not yell it to anyone. The public do not need to know.

She did suffer a lot of jokes about her and she was not taken seriously for a long time. Now it as changed, because she as mature and know more how to talk with the media.

She said later that in QuÃ©bec, its not well seen to be eccentric, we all got to be nice. It was her complaint. I got to agree with her for that. It's why Wilfred LeBouthillier won Star AcadÃ©mie (our Canadian idol, if you like).

Yes, we like nice people in general, like the sheep that is our symbol. You know St-Jean-Baptiste is our patron and he was surrounded with sheep. So a lot of people say we are sheep. Afraid of everything, nice but will do whatever we are told.

Me, I say we are not sheep but we are peaceful. How many nation can say they made a quiet revolution? How many nation can say they want separation through democraty and not violence? Can you name a lot?

I'm using the term Â« nation Â» do you agree with me? What makes a nation? What makes the Kurdes a nation without a country? Why the Basques separated in 2 countries is a nation, but it seems oly the spanish part want to separate? Why the Breton fell good in France? Can we say the acadians are a nation? I would not mind. Why the U.S. As it's very different from the east to the west, to the north to the south fell like 1 big united country? What makes a nation? Well, the only answer I came with is it's when the people decided it was a nation.

And in QuÃ©bec, it's not even a question anymore. We are a nation, whatever Justin Trudeau can say. Even Bill Clinton said it. He said we where a nation but it's not in our interest to separate. Well, at least he admit the obvious unlike the rest of Canada. If the ROC do not accept this, then Canada is doom. Because you can think you are a nation a work inside Canada (like the federalist). But some will say if you accept the notion of a nation in QuÃ©bec, it's a step to independance. Well, either way, you're screw, but personally, even more if you don't accept QuÃ©bec as a nation, because you will loose a lot more federalists, or fencesitter like myself.

The CBC's mandate is, however, to serve as a cornerstone of Canadian culture through dissemination of information, creating a shared language of experience and knowledge -- within limits, of course. It makes perfect sense that Au Courant would be an addition to its programming. :)

But from what I gather, everyone in english canada think it's boring and don't watch it. What is it worth if no one cares? You most be the only one watching Au courant. So who else in this forum has watch that show? I don't. But, I must admit to have watch Â« Les Ordres Â» of Michel Brault on the CBC and it must be one of the most powerful quebec movie of all time. What was done during the war mesure in MontrÃ©al (1970) was an atrocity that many remember very well today and why many had forgotten what Trudeau did good for the province before that.

Any culture is, by the nature of its complexity, a vast, ever-changing thing. You can't define Canadian culture? Define Quebecois culture. Will that definition hold when contrasted with the definition of a more urban, nationalistic point of view of someone from Montreal?

LOL, in nationalistic, you mean federalist? Because in QuÃ©bec (in the news) when they say nationalist, it's mean souverainist.

Well, I'm sure it maybe different, but yes, I do think it's possible to give a general view of Quebec culture. The main influence are from the francophonie (mostly France) and the anglosaxon (rest of Canada, but more importantly US and Britain). If you look at le coeur a ses raisons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9sLQFOu3B4&mode=related&search=), it's a satire of american soap and since the american soaps are translated in France, well, it's also a satire of the french translation.

We have quebec traditional music based on the celtic and britanny and or?? normandy music. The main characteristic was the use of violon and spoon. I learn recently, they did not used drum, because it would sound to much like the native. Oh, well, I never said everything was perfect.

New group emerged lately mixing world beat with traditional quebec music. At the moment the efeverscence in quebec music makes the french jalous.

Ah, funny thing, in the 50's there was no real quebec music (or not considered good enough to be recorded). What people did, was take a english song and translated it or even less job, just put whatever lyric they felt like. Or take a french song and did it again. But from that time, emerge the knowledge to create original music.

In many song, you get an upbeat song, but when you look at the lyric, it's a very sad song.

We are tv program addict. We really like our tv show and now the movies and also our singers. They are almost part of the family even if we really never met them. We are really proud of them, when they are popular outside our province Anthony Kavanagh, CÃ©line Dion, Isabelle Boulay, etc. (ok, usually, I'm not a Garou fan, but I was beginning to be when I was travelling, I needed my quebec music fix)

What is the worst, not been home, it's the expressions that are not understood, the cultural reference absolutly not there. Like we where going to Alberta and only the other QuÃ©bÃ©cker undertood me, when I was singing song from AstÃ©rix and ClÃ©opatra animated movies. I mean, AstÃ©rix movies are shown every year at christmas, you get Â« sound of music Â» we get AstÃ©rix.

From experience, I can say our cooking look more like scots except haggis and in less greasy. But the product are easier to recognise in Britain than in France , except for yogurt, movies and musics.

Also a renew taste for good food, good beer that do not taste like piss and good cheese. Cider too. Stuff did here and that taste good.

For books and play, we have Michel Tremblay, Gratien GÃ©linas and Robert Lepage. All great names that has and/or is marking the theatre of today. Even if we never seen/read anything of them, they are well known, like Apocalypse Now is a classic that not everyone have seen, but it's known like from everyone.

I could continu, but I think from what I said above, you can see what I mean. I can continue in my next reply. Now,I would like you to try. Like what make you go canadian crazy, what you fell is canadian.

Like I found that guy saying this (http://www.pulpanddagger.com/movies/essay_47.html), about canadian identity. Do you agree? I found it interesting, but again, I also found, when he said :

We are told that Canadian movies provide a window on Canadian identity and the Canadian experience. But do they? Do Atom Egoyan's or Lea Pool's films really reflect the Canadian identity, per se? And, for that matter, isn't that a lot of pressure to put on a filmmaker anyway?

Well,I don't agree. Yes, canadian movies can be a window to canadian identity, but mostly a film maker should do a film just because he/she want to do it, not for representing canadian identity. A movie like Maurice Richard (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460505/) is sure you're going to attract a lot of people. Richard is part of our collective memory. I had a book about him when I was a kid and he was my dad's hero. Of course it's a window to the french canadian identity (we where not quÃ©bÃ©cois yet). But if we only do that kind of movie, it's going to our doom. We need new collective memory. That's when personnal movies are important. Like when Denis Arcand did Â« Le dÃ©clin de l'empire amÃ©ricain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_D%C3%A9clin_de_l%27empire_am%C3%A9ricain) Â» he was not thinking about identity or anything. Just to do a good movie. It was so good that now that movie is part of our identity.

Lol, I just saw the english poster for the movie, you never notice it's different in french?

QuÃ©bec (http://www.rooxy.org/images/declin.jpg)
Canada (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0002KPI3M.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1090029599_.jpg)

Culture is a slippery fish to try and catch. ;) We can only ever paint it in broad strokes, because if we delve too much into specifics the attempts at definition quickly fall apart. In the broad strokes, the central values of Quebec are very much in line with several other regions of Canada. Of all provinces I'd actually say that Alberta is the most different in that regard.

I do think culture is not rigid and got a precise border. Yes, I agree with you, but I do think you can do better in defining your Canada. I feel like we do the political talk and each is arguing without listening to the other. I don't want to know why QuÃ©bec is so much like the rest of Canada, I know where we are alike in many cases as we think alike some of our southern neibhors. Like if you like, we think alike in our occidental way of life. Don't you think, I already did not think about that? I'm almost obsession with the identity/nation question.

But if you look historically, he never got along. Even if we do have values that are similar what do you do of that? We where french, when you where english, we where canadians when you where still english, we where french canadian when you decided to by also canadians and now we are quÃ©bÃ©cois. Historically, we were told we were against Riel (http://www.shsb.mb.ca/Riel/indexenglish.htm) been hang for treason.

We are also told, we where againt the conscription for the 1st and 2nd world war (any war actually) since it was always seen as a english war and that we where cannon fodder.

Just a little things like that. So, maybe today we are more like the rest of Canada in value, but I'm still septical. Do you have surveys that say in Canada people think .... except in QuÃ©bec where.... Well, I get that all the time when I watch the news.

There are many situations where speaking for a vast number of people with a united voice has merit. It's for that reason that democratically elected governments were conceived of. The system currently in place works very well, and because of its population Quebec has traditionally held a great deal of power at the federal level (though that's now switching to the west as BC and Alberta just hit population booms and now exceed Quebec's numbers). The province would have been better served by utilizing that power in a constructive, rather than deconstructive, manner.

Removing federal powers and turning the PM's office into nothing more than a figurehead will hamstring the nation quite effectively -- but such a move will serve several small groups of people, particularly in certain industrial sectors, quite nicely.

Like it's not already? Sponsorship scandal? AllÃ´!!! Can we only be a group of people sharing a common financial an political view that do things their onw way? Culturally, each province is different, their is no real canadian culture but more different provincial culture and we all assemble behind the name of Canada. Yes, for me that could work, but not the other way around. Because the other way, it keep us in a image that do not fit.

As bad as it may sound, (and I'm know I'm tired of it myself) it's all go back to the conquest and the fact that we are still not really part of canada since we never sign the constitution. And that damn inferiority complex still there even tho it's less important. When I hear my friend say she's going to name her daughter by an english name so maybe it will give her more change in life, I get furious.

When I get the negro king theory (http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/events/nking.htm) by souverainist to explain why we are mainly fighting amount ourselves (LÃ©vesque-Trudeau, Parizeau-ChrÃ©tien, etc), I find the reason not totally false, but at the same time, I find it a easy way out, as it's easier to blame the Â« others Â» then ourselves.

But then you get Canadian Idol, where it's supposed to brink together all canadians, but you can't even sing a song in french in that contest, right, wonder why I don't feel canadian?

Then there was the 1995 referendum, where people from all Canada came to MontrÃ©al to tell us they loved us. The trip was paid by rich businnessmen and maybe the gouvernment. It would have been so nive if everyone of those persons had paid their flight ticket. That way they would have really shown us they loved us. Instead, the message was; Â« we love you but we are above your law Â». Yes, in doing that gathering, they broke the QuÃ©bec referendum law in maximum spending. They never got anything because they where not quÃ©bec citizen.

Or again, my father receiving his pay check in english. Would you like to receive in your Ontario home an paycheck only in french? I don't think so. Most of all, my father was not bilingual. He also had to do an expense account in english. He was working 60 hours a week paid per week and not by the hours he did. He was 67 years old. No one asked him to do that many hours, but can I tell you, he felt insulted by his paycheck and the expense account. In that respect, when I watch Maurice Richard, the movie, I really saw my father, working like a dog and not capable of asking anything to the company.

Well, he may never had asked, but I did when he died last september, I asked his big boss in Hamilton if the employees could have their paycheck bilingual, so everyone would understand something. And I send him a link to Â« L'office quÃ©bÃ©coise de la langue franÃ§aise Â» because they could help him in the francisation of his company. Anyway, by the law, when you got more than 50 employees in QuÃ©bec you got to do a francisation. Why was it not done yet? Ignorance? I choose that, but is it possible to not understand a thing as basic as this one? I really wonder...

And I leave you with this :Courrier international (http://www.courrierinternational.com/evenement/quebec.asp) it's a french magazine talking about us quebecers and sorry it's all in french, but in there they talk about a article written in the economist, if you are curious enough to find it.

And, sorry if I offended anyone. It's not my goal, it's not because I don't really see what it's mean to be canadian that I don't like Canadian. Actually, I would like to see everyone personal view, be proud of who you are, don't wait for the american to love you. I think with Degrassi, that's what you're showing. You should continu to do more of those. Go see your cinema, read books, be proud.