How would you Mary Sue the MU?

[darc_light]

How would you guys make the MU "Perfect"?

This is my idea of "better" "Mary-Sue-verse", it's not perfect, there's still the Morlock massacre, and other tragedies...But many of the others are missing, like Inferno.

Here's my partial list:

Give Kyle back his X-Factor appearance and personality. (I don't want him to look so dang handsome as Wildheart, I like the more animalistic look to him, but not Nosferatu!) Heroic Wildchild!

I've missed a lot of the newer stories, so I don't know everything that's happened.

Characters I'd bring back from the dead:

Skin (One of the best characters Marvel ever had!)
Random
Tar Baby
Ape
Maggot
Psylocke
Quill (The X-Student)
Jetstream (Hellion)
Various AF and BF members


Characters I'd kill off:

Sabertooth
Valerie Cooper (Betcha' didn't see that coming...) :twisted:
Mystique
The Director
The Marauders
US Agent
Battlestar
Bastion (If he's not dead already...)
Lilandra
Selene the Black Queen
And many more...

Characters I'd give better and more parts to:

WILDCHILD! 8)
Adam X the X-Treme (Remember him? The third Summer's brother. The guy they shafted so they could have X-Treme X-Men :cry: )

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/adamxxtreme.htm

http://www.tawmis.com/xtreme/

Donald Pierce (He has such great potential as a villain, but he's just a occasional punching bag now...)
Wyre (Without the big guns)
Alpha Flight
The Micronauts (BUG!)
Rictor
Shatterstar
Elders of the Universe (We only know of about 15 out of at least 1000, I have ideas for a few new Elders)

Storylines I'd never have done:

The X-Statix series (What where they thinking!?)
1602 (See above.)
Inferno (Demons bursting out of children and burning them to cinders? That's just sick) :-&
All of those future A'Skani? storylines. (Not the 2099 ones, just the Cable/Redd and Slim types)
Cassandra Nova (Except the destroying the Shi'Ar part) :evil:
M-Day
Decimation
Civil War
Destruction of Genosha

I'd also like the Shi'Ar to be shown as the villains they are, I mean, they conquer thousands of worlds, slaughter 80% of the Kree race, and they're a noble warrior species? If they were ugly they'd be treated just like the Badoon or Skrulls, as vicious conquerors. Lately they've been acting pretty unfriendly towards earth, but most of that has been shown as just misunderstandings...

Not all Shi'Ar are evil, of course, or all Skrull, there are even good Badoon and Brood, but they should be shown with warts and all.

I have more ideas, I just can't think of them right now.

Anyone else have ideas for Mary Sue-ish fantasies :?:

[Banshee]

What I would undo with a reality wave:

Do a house of M ending type eradication and make Spider-man never have taken his mask off in public. I know it will probably lead to lots of interesting storylines, but this Spider-Man is nothing like the Spider-man I know.

I'd love to know what happened to baby May as well(apart from in the Spider-Girl comic).

Finally(and I always get lots of grief over this from my comics friends), don't destroy excellent plots by resurrecting dead characters for sensationalism. The death of Phoenix was an epic that really touched fans, only to be told that it wasn't Jean but an alien force. She has never been the same since and now when she dies it's all rather 'ho-hum'.

Let's have a relationship that lasts in comics, apart from Reed and Sue Richards:

Johnny and Alicia/Lyja
Ben and Alicia
Scott and Maddy
Scott and Jean
Wanda and the Vish
Angel and Psylocke
Storm and Forge(I know, she's with Black Panther now)
Wolverine and Mariko
Jan and Hank

And out of this, how about letting the kids survive:

Wanda and Visions twins
'Young'Nathan summers
Lyja and Torches 'egg'

I know realtionships break up, but in the Marvel Universe, you'd better not get your feet under the table!! :lol:

[darc_light]

Banshee wrote: "Finally(and I always get lots of grief over this from my comics friends), don't destroy excellent plots by resurrecting dead characters for sensationalism. The death of Phoenix was an epic that really touched fans, only to be told that it wasn't Jean but an alien force. She has never been the same since and now when she dies it's all rather 'ho-hum'."

How many times has Professor X died and come back? There's a saying among fans "There's death, and then there's X-Men death." I think they've all died at one point or another... I agree with you somewhat, a really good storyline can be ruined by such tricks, like having a character die and then turn out to be a Skrull or a shapeshifter posing as So-And-So. And the Genosha thing, I knew Magneto wasn't dead from the very beginning, it was just an excuse to up the body count.

It's just that Skin was a great character who got shafted and killed off in a rather senseless way, (not as much as Synch though)

[Effexxor]

Charecters who I wish got more attention:

Rictor: An interesting guy from X Force. Dangit, I like his hot head attitude, the the chemistry between him and Shatterstar was fantastic.
Alpha Flight: Duh, because they're freaking awesome
Victor/Anole: Yeah, he's from Academy of X, but I like him. Probably because he reminds me of my gay friends, but he's likeable, smart and just snarky enough. Also, he has a pretty freaking cool power and the mentoring relationship that Northstar had with him is just freaking adorable.
Skin: Absolutely more Skin. Funny character and a good personality.
Polaris: Okay. First off, she's absolutely freaking gorgeous, and yet absolutely, totally capable. Besides Heather, she's really one of the only X-ladies that I admire. That and I love her neurosis.

Characters I'm sick and tired of:

Phoenix/Marvel Girl: I don't like Jean Grey. I just can't freaking stand her. I have no idea why, but I really wish she'd just die off.
Cable: I get that he's cool already. I've had enough. Let him go away already.
Professor X: He creeps me out. He really honestly uses the Xmen as his own little pawns and I just don't freaking like it.

Stupid plot themes that I wish would just die:

Shatterstar as Benjamin: Who the hell decided that badass gladiator Shatterstar should be the figment of a person with a coma's imagination? I mean really. Come on.
Cannonball as a God-like figure: I liked him better when he was just a good old boy from down South. It gave him humanity that he could mess up.
Death of Alpha Flight: Do I really need to say anything on this?
All of the Wolverine Origins that mention Japan: That just seems like a way to try and attract anime lovers. I like Wolvie better as an embittered WWII soldier who went feral.

Characters who I'd wish had gotten better plot lines and actual plots:
Major Mapleleaf: I like him. I do, I do, I do. He's a sweet kid who kind of reminds me of young, not yet cynical Cyclops or Bobby. You don't see this kind of char. alot.
Shatterstar: He lived his life as a freaking death machine. It must be screwing with him mentally that now he is allowed to have emotion.
Aurora: Do I really need to say anything?
Early Polaris writings: She's kinda a wuss then.

[RolandT]

I don't know enough to be as complete. But I'd do this:

-Make Box "Jeffries" normal and powerful again, not crazy or easy to manipulate, and no power over plastics, just inorganic things
-Bring in young characters like Feedback, Ghost Girl, Flex, Flinch even. Old Department H style, 3 teams.

-Keep Jean Grey dead, did up her corpse and throw it into the Sun, find every molecule she inhaled/exhaled and blast it with neutrons, go to every parrallel universe and kill her in all of them.

Kill most of the newer mutants and X-people, comics are fun when there's only about 20 X-men roaming the earth, not millions. M-Day didn't kill enough of them.

[Canucklehead]

1) Fix up Spider-Man. No more then 2 solo monthly 616 titles. Amazing and FNSM are enough. Bring back his cast, the best in comics. Bring back baby May. Introduce new villains. Make Peter an everyman again. I actually care more for a story where his milk goes bad and can't afford to buy anything but a bag of M&Ms for his aniversary more then a 12 issue cross over with nothing coming out of it. Make MJ more then a 1 dimentional supermodel. The thought of May and Jarivs gives me nightmares.

2) Alpha Flight. Come on now, how can you expect a series to fly when the writers don't even show them respect. When there's a huge MU crossover, bring em in! Have them actually appear and do something other then try to kidnap Wolverine or be brainwashed. Tie up lose ends! Northstar, Aurora, Jefferies, Marina. Do something with them other then keep em in limbo til someone needs a villain before sending them back to limbo. Stop saying "hoser"!

3) X-titles, no more villains turning good. Mystique, Sabertooth, Juggernaught. Don't turn villains good if you can't create worthwhile new villains. Who's left? Where did Sinister run off to?

4) Stop throwing Arana down our throats. Nobody likes her. 8)

[darc_light]

Canucklehead said "Make Peter an everyman again." Amen to that! I liked him as an "ordinary" guy just trying to do what's right.

3) "X-titles, no more villains turning good. Mystique, Sabertooth, Juggernaught. Don't turn villains good if you can't create worthwhile new villains. "
I forgot Mystique in my "People I'd kill off list" You're right though, after all the atrocities Sabretooth has commited, willingly, how could anyone trust him to go out and save people? They tried it before, and X-Factor almost got wiped out. And Mystique murdered Moira, how can they forget that?
It's also strange to me to have Marauders and Morlocks in the X-Mansion being all cozy with one another...

Effexor said "Skin: Absolutely more Skin. Funny character and a good personality." Amen again!

I also agree with your take on the confused origins of Shatterstar, ret-conning can get very annoying.

I am also sick and tired of Proff. X, as I've said so many times before, without Xavier the whole world goes to one hell or another, it's like he's the god of Earth 616 or something.

If I kill off some of the big, impressive villains like Sabertooth, then we can have worthy but underused characters like Donald Pierce take a greater role as threats to Mutantkind.

Speaking of underused villains, has anyone seen The Living Monolith lately?

[Banshee]

i]Canuklehead said: Bring back his cast, the best in comics(Re:Spider-Man).[/i]

I concur!!

Glory Grant
Jonah, John and Marla Jameson.
Betty Brant Leeds.
Debra Whitman(I see she's coming back?)
Eugene Flash Thompson.
Shah Shan
Jill Stacey
Robbie Robertson.
Felicity Hardy(not the 'Claws' one!!)
Mrs.Muggins!!


The best Spider title out there at the moment is Spider-Girl. I only bought the new 'Amazing' first issue, having skipped the entire 100 issue run, and ran out to buy the digests to catch up. Great fun. AND selling like hotcakes in our local comic stores.

And I would love to see the return of GARY CODY of Department H in Omega Flight.

And with all the versions of Spider-Woman type people running around out there, how about a return for my favourite Avenger of all time...TIGRA!! Not well characterised since Englehart had her under his pen in WCA!!

[Transmetropolitan]

Awright... bring me a pair of scissors, a bucket of glue, a bottle of Crown Royal, and watch a "genius" at work...



Awright- the Dark Phoenix saga was the end of Jean Grey. A powerful, emotionally-wrenching death, cheapened horrifically years after the fact.

Alpha Flight- I love these guys, but I'd take a chainsaw to their published continuity. Mac's first death would be his only death. He's gone. Heather eventually dons the EM suit- and keeps it. Some of Volume 2 can stay (particularly some of the newer characters), Volume 3 goes away and burns forever in the pits of hell (I'll find some way to shoehorn in the two characters I did sorta like). They are, of course, emphatically not dead.

Juggernaut? Still a villainous powerhouse. Sabretooth? Still an evil psycopath with no regard for the lives he wastes

Call me sentimental, but I'd have Mystique's Brotherhood (aka Freedom Force) still running around. Y'know, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Destiny, Mystique, Stonewall, Super-Sabre, Crimson Commando.

Onsalught didn't happen (because for all that it's affecting th MU these days, it may as well never have happened.

House of M- Never happened.
M-Day Also didn;t go down, but I do like that there are fewer mutants overall.

No Sentry. Thor's still around.

The decimation of the Hellfire club in the mid-90s would be a bit more permanent (even if Fitzroy was an idiot). Frost signs on to teach Generation X to try and atone for her failure to save the Hellions.

Spider-Man- No clone saga. No Maximum Crappage. No unmasking. Eddie Brock is still Venom.

Hmmmm.... more as I think of 'em.

[Adam]

Wow this is really turning into a "plea for conservative rehashing of stories we've been told already" type of discussion. I can respect the wish for "classic interpretations" of characters, but I'm enjoying the MU far more now than I was in the 90s. It seems like now there's actual change going on, from Avengers Disassembled through Civil War, and despite some problems in execution there's a genuine sense of "unease" which I like in my storytelling.

With that in mind, here's what I'd do:

- HoM happened, but explore the fallout of the Decimation far more. I loved Morrison's whole idea of a mutant subculture, so maybe explore what happens to that post-Decimation.

- The people who were aware of their "lives in the HoM" as well as their lives in the regular MU should have some serious issues.

- Whatever happened in "the Other," make it stick and important or get rid of it

- Civil War is happening at face value. No reset button, not big mind controlling bad guy behind it, no fake outs, real consequences.

- Have the new status quo show that heroes can distrust and disagree with each other and still be heroes. The idea of every hero on earth getting together at the Baxter Building for a big friendly conference worked for me when I was younger, but it just seems silly now.

- Jean Grey is dead, and dead forever. Explore the "legend of the Phoenix" or the impact of Jean's legacy, but none of this "sooner or later Jean and Scott are back together and it's 1995 again" stuff.

- Heroes are in one place at one time, particularly the X-Men. Each X team remains distinct, no sharing members or needless Wolverine guest apperances.

- Alpha Flight history cleaned up. Bite the bullet and explain conclusively that Puck isn't some 6 foot cursed guy, the twins aren't elves, and address Mac's status once and for all. With the baggage cleared, move forward and give Alpha a purpose and direction that lasts longer than 10 issues.

- I like the Sentry, keep him around but get him out of NYC and give him a challenge worthy of his power.

- Establish the "levels" of the MU pantheon and how they interact. Don't just shelve the Inhumans, Eternals, Atlantis, Greek gods, Norse gods, Northern gods, etc. Make them a functioning part of the universe and not a "once in a while" plot device.

- Put a moratorium on time travel and alternate dystopian futures, those muddy the waters more than resurrections for me.

- Bring back some form of "Defenders" and "Champions" and set them up outside of NYC and give them a reason for being. There are plenty of characters doing nothing.

- Stop using AIM / Hydra / the Hand as stock villains. Give them a purpose and some charismatic personalities involved.

[Transmetropolitan]

Wow this is really turning into a "plea for conservative rehashing of stories we've been told already" type of discussion. I can respect the wish for "classic interpretations" of characters, but I'm enjoying the MU far more now than I was in the 90s.

The 90s? The 90s? You mean when the entire slide down the toilet was in full swing?

You call that "conservative rehashing"? That was the decade that made me swear off reading comics in single-ssue format.

More slicing and dicing-

I liked the days when the X-Men, Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, whoever, weren't in possession of every little bit of information on each other. The distrust we see in Civil War isn't really new, it just feels that way becuase the MU heroes have worked together "seamlessly" for years.

Give us some genuine distrust.

[Phil]

- HoM happened, but explore the fallout of the Decimation far more. I loved Morrison's whole idea of a mutant subculture, so maybe explore what happens to that post-Decimation.

Are you reading PAD's X-Factor at all? This is addressing that very issue.

[Adam]

Wow this is really turning into a "plea for conservative rehashing of stories we've been told already" type of discussion. I can respect the wish for "classic interpretations" of characters, but I'm enjoying the MU far more now than I was in the 90s.

The 90s? The 90s? You mean when the entire slide down the toilet was in full swing?

You call that "conservative rehashing"? That was the decade that made me swear off reading comics in single-ssue format.


I stopped reading in the 90s as well for mostly the same reasons. The 90s just stand out as an example in my head of storytelling that went nowhere with zero lasting consequences and nothing happening that wouldn't just revert back to "classic mode" every 6 months.

[Adam]

- HoM happened, but explore the fallout of the Decimation far more. I loved Morrison's whole idea of a mutant subculture, so maybe explore what happens to that post-Decimation.

Are you reading PAD's X-Factor at all? This is addressing that very issue.

I love PAD's X-Factor, but I've just found it odd how little the "main" X-Men books have addressed this. You'd think it would be THE issue for a good while, but here we have the team off in space.

[darc_light]

I wonder why so many super-Hero groups (And individuals, like Spider-Man) are based in and around NY, without the Defenders and X-Force, that leaves the Avengers to watch the rest of the U.S. Without Alpha Flight, who's gonna protect Canada? Captain Britain? Le Peregrine? :lol:
(I'm sure Wolverine will handle any threat to Canada, he always does... :roll: )

Japan has Sunfire, the Big Hero Six and Silver Samurai, but who's protecting the rest of the world? SHIELD? Russia has a few Super Soldiers, but the X-Men or Avengers tend to deal with the world threats. We need some good international teams that are actually put to use. Like Alpha Flight.

[darc_light]

Effexxor: "Rictor: An interesting guy from X Force. Dangit, I like his hot head attitude, the the chemistry between him and Shatterstar was fantastic."

Didn't he date Wolfsbaine for a while? I always figured he was straight, but I haven't read much with either character (Rictor or Shatterstar) in a long while...

Anyway, Rictor is an awesome character, they just seem to have tossed him away :cry:

Effexxor " Shatterstar as Benjamin: Who the hell decided that badass gladiator Shatterstar should be the figment of a person with a coma's imagination? I mean really. Come on. "

I agree completely, he was much better before, I repeat, I hate ret-cons...Look at the Wolverine: Origin thing, I think he was much cooler when we had no idea who he was...What's next, Lady Deathstrike is actually Mariko Yashida? Namor's half-elf :lol: (Hey, they did try it with the twins :roll: )

[Le Messor]

I'd retcon the X movies a bit. Put Lady Deathstrike in, instead of whatever they had in there. Make the third a worthy sequel to the second.

But, bit of quibbling: What you describe is a retcon. A Mary-Sue is adding in a character who all the other character loves and who always saves the day, and who is obviously meant to be you.

For whatever it's worth.

- Le Messor
"You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
- Inigo Montoya

[Effexxor]

Effexxor: "Rictor: An interesting guy from X Force. Dangit, I like his hot head attitude, the the chemistry between him and Shatterstar was fantastic."

Didn't he date Wolfsbaine for a while? I always figured he was straight, but I haven't read much with either character (Rictor or Shatterstar) in a long while...



Ah, the Rictor/Shatterstar relationship. The creator of the series has flat out said in an interview that if he was able to finish out his freaking story line that Shatterstar would admit to Rictor that he thought that he loved him. Yeah.

And if you want a sight with some really freaking good proof, try http://www.geocities.com/ricshatty/proofs.html. It's... interesting to say the least.

I hate that Benjamin Russell subplot so freaking much because it just makes no sense. And... ugh. It's frusterating. I wish they'd also put more of an effort into making Shatty more human and not so 'Grawr, must kill!' in these recent issues he's in.

[darc_light]

Le Messor"But, bit of quibbling: What you describe is a retcon. A Mary-Sue is adding in a character who all the other character loves and who always saves the day, and who is obviously meant to be you."

Yes, it is, isn't it. :oops: But Fanon isn't Canon...You write what you want, but it doesn't really change the story for anyone else.

I have a few Comic OC's, but I've never written anything with them, they all tend to be either pacifists or unstable sociopaths.... 8-[ :-s

I've only written a few Fan fics, mostly Manga. I try to avoid MS, but sometimes it shines through, of course, a character that's like me is not going to be saving the day often, (Except by luck or accident), he'd more likely be commited.

The character I'm writing now, (For my Guyver fanfic on Fanart Central) techinically works for the "Bad Guys" of the canon story, Chronos, though he doesn't consider their motives wrong. Even his allies think he's dangerously unstable, he's only won his battles by the element of surprise, and with no lasting victories, Guyver III and Aptom just keep coming back... :evil: I've tried to make him as flawed as I possibly can, and make sure that he doesn't do what I "Mary Sue" want for him, to destroy all of his enemies and save the day for good.
He is a lot like me... :oops: Crazy...

But even some of his allies can't stand him, and most don't trust him.

For some reason, the spacing in my stories appears all screwed up to at least some users, though it looks fine to me.

I guess everyone who writes or does any form of art puts some of themself into it...You just have to know when to put something else in...

[darc_light]

Effexxor, are you angry at the writers or at me? 'Cause I honestly didn't know. :?

There are so many unfinished and twisted plotlines in the MU I wouldn't be surprised at anything anymore... :wink:

[syvalois]

Didn't he date Wolfsbaine for a while? I always figured he was straight, but I haven't read much with either character (Rictor or Shatterstar) in a long while...



Ah, the Rictor/Shatterstar relationship. The creator of the series has flat out said in an interview that if he was able to finish out his freaking story line that Shatterstar would admit to Rictor that he thought that he loved him. Yeah.


In X-Force, a very long time ago. Yes, it was obvious Shatterstar had a crush on Rictor. But if it was the case for Rictor, that was not so obvious. I personnally would say no. Somehow, it felt so much like Rictor not to see the obvious.

Plus, love is not always there for both and that would have been a nice story that way. Like the original little mermaid. It's har, but it's true and that makes a stronger story sometimes. But yeah, it's the best development Shatterstar had for me until the Benjamin Russell thing.

[Effexxor]

Oo Of course I'm not mad at you, Darc light. Unless you secretly had something to do with that plot line. :wink:

But yeah, I think it was pretty much a one sided thing. Even if Ric felt anything, I don't think his machismo pride would let him do anything about it. Shatterstar on the other hand doesn't seem to have that issue, and frankly, if he did have feelings for another man, I don't think he'd necessarily worry that much over it. He's pretty laid back on things like feelings.

I really wish they'd continued on with that story line, because like syvalois said, it was really good development. It gave Shatterstar a whole other dimension of character, and it made him seem human. Lord, when I see him now? It pains me.

[Le Messor]

And if you want a sight with some really freaking good proof, try http://www.geocities.com/ricshatty/proofs.html. It's... interesting to say the least.

:mrgreen:

That was hilarious! Thanks!
Shatterstar *looked* at Rictor, obviously they're gay! :D

- Le Messor
"Being highly intelligent is like having four-wheel drive" - it just enables you to get stuck in more remote places."
- Garrison Keillor

[SephirothsKiller]

And if you want a sight with some really freaking good proof, try http://www.geocities.com/ricshatty/proofs.html. It's... interesting to say the least.

:mrgreen:

That was hilarious! Thanks!
Shatterstar *looked* at Rictor, obviously they're gay! :D

- Le Messor
"Being highly intelligent is like having four-wheel drive" - it just enables you to get stuck in more remote places."
- Garrison Keillor

I believe that Rictor didn't feel this way about Shatterstar (or at least recognize his feelings) is the official line on the relationship.

-Changes I'd like to see. Remember Days of Future Now? No? It was awesome, go read it. -I wanna see Wolverine with Warbird again, and I want Ms. Marvel to go back to Warbird, because I don' t like conceited names unless they're used ironically.

-I'd like Peter to have more angst, no wife, and a sciency job that showed his genious but that also wasn't the sort of place where he could go all: "Look at me I just invented a world inverter!!" Like TS and Mr. F do all the time.

-Alpha Flight, MM.

-Sasquatch in his own series.

-Better placed Gambit and Rogue, give Gambit the fighting skills he actually has.

-Storm should not be with BP.

-Emma Frost, meet bullet.

-Hellfire Club, either stop being stupid or become a player.

-Marvel. Stop doing rediculous books with two cells per page just so you can stretch it out to a trade. I'm looking at you Ghost Rider.

[Effexxor]

And if you want a sight with some really freaking good proof, try http://www.geocities.com/ricshatty/proofs.html. It's... interesting to say the least.

:mrgreen:

That was hilarious! Thanks!
Shatterstar *looked* at Rictor, obviously they're gay! :D

- Le Messor
"Being highly intelligent is like having four-wheel drive" - it just enables you to get stuck in more remote places."
- Garrison Keillor

You do have to admit though, they have a point. Did you see the panle with 'She has lost Warpath. He has lost Rictor. Both see this missing teammates as "friends." Both too stubborn to admit they may mean more than that.'? That's pretty... interesting. To compare Siryn's feelings on Warpath with Shatterstar's feelings on Rictor... that's a pretty big comparison there.

[darc_light]

Poor Emma, how many of her students have been killed? The Hellions, Skin, Synch, those Genoshan kids, Quill, (was Squidboy one of her students too?) I think she's cursed. I really do. She's tried suicide at least once, and failed. She's right up there with Kyle in the "truly awful life story" .

The Shatterstar/Rictor thing is sad. I think it's worse for someone not to know you care, than to know and not return the feelings. At least then you know where they stand and can get on with your life...

[Banshee]

If I could Mary Sue the MU, I would bring back these classic teams:

Alpha Flight( a version coming back as Omega!)

New Mutants(I don't read new X-Men. Is this comparable?)

The New Defenders

The West Coast Avengers(There is a new title coming out, Mighty Avengers, I have hopes).

And can I ask:Whatever happened to Sassafras??
And I would get rid of all the X-Books and have a basic 2 titles, something like Uncanny and Astonishing with a 'junior' new mutants type book.

[Le Messor]

Both too stubborn to admit they may mean more than that.'?

That, and one other thing (can't remember what) are the only places where they have anything resembling a point.

The rest just tells me it was written by somebody who's never had a friend in their life. Every single relationship they've ever had must have been sexual for them to think that "very best friend" (italics theirs) means "gay lovers". That they put so much emphasis on hands on shoulders, shaking hands, looking at each other;

The whole thing tells me a lot more about the compiler than it does about Shatterstar and Ricter.

- Le Messor
"Projecting much?"