Another Byrne commission...

[cmdrkoenig67]

I thought I'd share it...

Dana

http://byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16364&PN=1&totPosts=6

[varo]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

[syvalois]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

No, i also think the same

[cmdrkoenig67]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

No, i also think the same

How so? Her mouth is open wide...That's the only thing I see odd about her face.

Dana

[syvalois]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

No, i also think the same

How so? Her mouth is open wide...That's the only thing I see odd about her face.

Dana

I'm not an expert but I think there is something wrong in her forhead, missing some a little bit. If you look at other Byrne drawing, Talisman had more forhead. Or it could be the distance between the eyes. Or simply the face is to big for the body or the left arm is to small(the one not holding Wanda), which make the head to big.

I also think Wanda arm is too small, but I'm really not sure. I'm not really good myself with proportion, so who am I to say?

:oops:

[PWalk]

Is that Beta Ray Bill as the Talisman?

8)

[Le Messor]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

Sorry, but it looks like Byrne wasn't even trying there.
She's a bit cross-eyed, and it just looks like he got lazy. :/

Other than that, great picture, but I get the feel for his not being into Alpha any more from it.

- Le Messor
Top Tips: A next door neighbour's car aerial, carefully folded, makes an ideal coat hanger in an emergency.

[Ottawa Renegade]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

No, i also think the same

How so? Her mouth is open wide...That's the only thing I see odd about her face.

Dana

I'm not an expert but I think there is something wrong in her forhead, missing some a little bit. If you look at other Byrne drawing, Talisman had more forhead. Or it could be the distance between the eyes. Or simply the face is to big for the body or the left arm is to small(the one not holding Wanda), which make the head to big.

I also think Wanda arm is too small, but I'm really not sure. I'm not really good myself with proportion, so who am I to say?

:oops:

That's exactly it. Her headband reaches right to her eyes.

[DelBubs]

Wanda looked okay to me, but I have to agree with the opinions regarding Elizabeth. The head doesn't look right.

[Barnacle13]

I once saw an inflatable doll in an adult bookstore with a similar expression! And the headband does drop a bit low. Almost looks like an early Wild Child brow!

[DelBubs]

I once saw an inflatable doll in an adult bookstore with a similar expression!
:P That thought entered my head to, but felt it prudent not to say so, but as it's been said...

[HappyCanuck]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

Sorry, but it looks like Byrne wasn't even trying there.
She's a bit cross-eyed, and it just looks like he got lazy. :/


I gotta agree with Mik. This wasn't John's best work.

[Barnacle13]

I once saw an inflatable doll in an adult bookstore with a similar expression!
:P That thought entered my head to, but felt it prudent not to say so, but as it's been said...

I've never really been known for tact! So as the thought arises it normally sees light of day.

[DelBubs]

When I first saw the mouth shape on Talisman, it remeinded me of an image I saw years back. Three ladies of the night standing around waiting for cutom. One had a mouth shaped exactly as we see in this image, one of the other ladies turns to her and says "You really must stop specialising".

[SephirothsKiller]

Hmmm... I love the idea that Byrne had for Wolverine's origin which he discusses in those forums.

Does anybody know why he doesn't enjoy Alpha Flight?

P.S. The art is meh, the amulet cuts perfectly across her browline for some reason. The result looks really weird as has been stated...

[cmdrkoenig67]

please tell me i'm not the only one who thinks elizabeths face is a little................odd.

No, i also think the same

How so? Her mouth is open wide...That's the only thing I see odd about her face.

Dana

I'm not an expert but I think there is something wrong in her forhead, missing some a little bit. If you look at other Byrne drawing, Talisman had more forhead. Or it could be the distance between the eyes. Or simply the face is to big for the body or the left arm is to small(the one not holding Wanda), which make the head to big.

I also think Wanda arm is too small, but I'm really not sure. I'm not really good myself with proportion, so who am I to say?

:oops:

That's exactly it. Her headband reaches right to her eyes.

That's how he drew her when he was doing Alpha Flight. The Circlet was covering her brows...she usually had a bit of forehead above it, though (it appears he drew the circlet a bit too big).

Dana

EDITED: because I had two signatures, for some reason.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Hmmm... I love the idea that Byrne had for Wolverine's origin which he discusses in those forums.

Does anybody know why he doesn't enjoy Alpha Flight?

His reasons are (AFAIK)... He created the characters for the X-Men to battle, but didn't believe they should be used for any more than random appearances (he called them one-notes...I really don't know why he feels this way, since many, many characters are "born" this way and sometimes go on to be big successes...As Alpha did, at first)
and he was coerced into doing their book, when he had no interest.


P.S. The art is meh, the amulet cuts perfectly across her browline for some reason. The result looks really weird as has been stated...

Like I said...That's the way he drew her when he was doing the Flight...Pretty much every pic he did of her had her brow covered by the circlet.

Dana

[syvalois]

.


P.S. The art is meh, the amulet cuts perfectly across her browline for some reason. The result looks really weird as has been stated...

Like I said...That's the way he drew her when he was doing the Flight...Pretty much every pic he did of her had her brow covered by the circlet.

I think you are right Dana, the biggest problem is the size of the circlet and the amount of forehead above it, it's too small.

My boyfriend, who is a much better penciller than I, said pretty much that the proportions where wrong and most of all, Talisman had a an head and a mouth too big for the rest.

[Transmetropolitan]

I know it's Byrne's forum over there.... but are falling over themselves to brownnose about a piece that isn't really anywhere NEAR his best work. Eh. Oh well.

[Ottawa Renegade]

I know it's Byrne's forum over there.... but are falling over themselves to brownnose about a piece that isn't really anywhere NEAR his best work. Eh. Oh well.

If his behaviour there is anything like what I've heard, I'm surprised he isn't trying to hack into this place to ban you for saying that... :wink:

Anyway, we probably sound the same towards our Omega creative team, and it's not even their board.

Speaking for myself, I've never really like the way Byrne draws people, particularly facial expressions. In fact, I recall when he critisized himself once for that very thing. I believe he said that he's aware that many of his characters look similar and that it was something he wanted to work on.

[Weapon Alpha]

Hi, everybody!

Talisman's proportions are off indeed.

Her head is too big, her forehead is too small (making the amulet look like a paperweight), and the nose and mouth are too large.

Also, both her and Scarlet Witch's bodies look stunted, as if Byrne drew them a head or two too short. I've noticed this trait in his work over the past few years.

When he had returned to ACTION COMICS with Gail Simone, his Superman looked short on the covers.

It is incredible how EVERY poster on his site is praising this as one of his best pieces ever. Personally, if I had commissioned this I'd be very disappointed with the end product.

[SephirothsKiller]

It is incredible how EVERY poster on his site is praising this as one of his best pieces ever. Personally, if I had commissioned this I'd be very disappointed with the end product.

Haha, so true, a nice "WTF? You best be re-doing this for me Byrne!" would have been my response had I been the one who commissioned it.

[Ben]

To me parts of this looks like someone with a little skill copying a byrne piece. I have some pics from when I was a teen trying to copy some Jim Starlin Warlock art. It's close, as I was copying it, but somehting's just not right about a lot of it...

Could just be an off piece for Byrne, but really, he should have seen it, and fixed it, or started over, since someone is paying for it. I look at artists like Perez and Starlin and realize that old-school artists can continue to evolve in thier style, and stay modern, but classic. Byrne has faild to do so IMO.

BTW, this coming from someone who started collecting comics because of Byrne...

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

Yes...The pic is not perfect. Yes...John Byrne can be a jerk.

I posted the link because I thought somebody would enjoy seeing an Alpha Flight member being drawn again by Byrne. Cripes!...And I got my hand slapped here for being too negative and critical of Omega Flight. I give up.

Dana

[kozzi24]

I know it's Byrne's forum over there.... but are falling over themselves to brownnose about a piece that isn't really anywhere NEAR his best work. Eh. Oh well.
One poster there said the faces look "distinctive"
That can be a word for "bad".

[Ben]

Yes...The pic is not perfect. Yes...John Byrne can be a jerk.

I posted the link because I thought somebody would enjoy seeing an Alpha Flight member being drawn again by Byrne. Cripes!...And I got my hand slapped here for being too negative and critical of Omega Flight. I give up.

Dana

Dana, people aren't griping at you about this, we are simply stating our opinions of this piece, and JB's art in general these days. Really we are looking at apple and oranges comparing your Omega negativity, to this. I won't get into specifics, as I don't think it's fair to come down on other's opinions. I know you hold JB in high regard, however I see no need to take it personally if some fans feel that he isn't living up to the standard he once did. Many people (myself included) were stuck by certain things being out of propotion in this peice, we aren't Byrne bashing, if people were doing so, this thread would be locked. It's specific comentary about the piece of art in question. In my opinion this peice, Talisman specifically, does not live up to what we know Byrne can, or once could do. I do feel that the background is great, but if I paid the price he charges for these commisions, I'd be very disapointed in this peice. If you are going to charge the top dollar, you should provide the best you can do, and this simply is not his best.

Ben (feeling tired and cranky after a long night at work)

[cmdrkoenig67]

Dana, people aren't griping at you about this, we are simply stating our opinions of this piece, and JB's art in general these days.

I realize nobody is griping at me...I just wanted to contribute something to the board and ...Well...It's turned into a pretty negative/critical thread...I'm just bummed out lately, when it comes to Alpha Flight.


Really we are looking at apple and oranges comparing your Omega negativity, to this. I won't get into specifics, as I don't think it's fair to come down on other's opinions. I know you hold JB in high regard, however I see no need to take it personally if some fans feel that he isn't living up to the standard he once did.

Whoah now...Hold your horses there, Ben...I hold some of John Byrne's artwork and some of his writing in high regard....I do not hold the man himself in the highest regard...I don't know him I only know of his personality from his online self...And that ain't pretty). I simply respect the talent he possesses...that's it. This is not one of his best, unfortunately...I totally agree with you on this.

As far as my opinions of Omega (whether they be negative or just percieved to be so)...It seems everyone can say their piece on them, but myself.


Many people (myself included) were stuck by certain things being out of propotion in this peice, we aren't Byrne bashing, if people were doing so, this thread would be locked. It's specific comentary about the piece of art in question. In my opinion this peice, Talisman specifically, does not live up to what we know Byrne can, or once could do. I do feel that the background is great, but if I paid the price he charges for these commisions, I'd be very disapointed in this peice. If you are going to charge the top dollar, you should provide the best you can do, and this simply is not his best.

Ben (feeling tired and cranky after a long night at work)

Again...I agree with your assessment of Talisman in the pic. This is not his best....Although, His other recent AF-related commissions were much better executed and quite attractive. Liz's head is not in proportion with her body (her body is too slight for the size of her head), but as an artist...I have to say her facial features (mouth included) are in proportion to her head size. I honestly don't feel the pic is as bad as everyone else is saying it is.

Dana

[syvalois]

Sorry Dana, I like to analyse a drawing and I might say I'm expecting a lot form the great John Byrne and this drawing is not up to his talent. We saw other work of his that where superbe and everyone said so.

Don't be sad to have shown that commission. It's nice to see Talisman. there is a nice background too, but it would have been better if the proportion would have been right.

Allan can tell you, I would have made the same comment if this drawing as been his.

[Banshee]

Like Dana, I love Byrnes work. I am on his forum. I think the following:

1.Elizabeth looks distorted facially to me, but I am no art critic, so that is my opinion.
2. I think the idea of a Wanda and Elizabeth commission was a cool idea
3. If you want to know JB's opinion on Alpha, check out:
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects#9 and hear from the man himself!!
4. JB just doesn't like people speaking for him!! Fair enough!
5.Dana, Ben, Omega is a rebirth, so let's all be hap, hap, HAPPY!! I visit this site far more often than the JB forum nowadays and you guys are ALL GREAT!!
6. Anyone know where I can buy a cool AF poster to frame????? :D

[Barnacle13]

I lack the talent to be an art critic, so I can't comment on proportions and such. But If I'd paid the price tag JB charges and got this, I'd be unhappy. Of course I'd have commissioned Shaman and Talisman battling mystic foes, which would have been way cooler!

The expression is "distinct" for certain. I'm glad Dana posted this though. It's great to see Alpha still getting exposure, especially in other forums. Don't think we're all out to attack you Dana. I respect your opinion, but moreso your courage to express it. Few have the strength to stand up for their convictions when facing a firing squad. Don't back down on account of us. If we all agreed this would be a boring forum and we'd all be happy to see Wolverine show up in another title as a main character.

[Barnacle13]

6. Anyone know where I can buy a cool AF poster to frame????? :D

Not a poster, but these are cool

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPHA-FLIGHT-32-COLOR-GUIDE-ART-PG-1ST-VINDICATOR-1986_W0QQitemZ2248231232QQihZ012QQcategoryZ972QQrd Z1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALPHA-FLIGHT-32-COLOR-GUIDE-ART-PG-1ST-VINDICATOR-1986_W0QQitemZ6503738065QQihZ012QQcategoryZ972QQrd Z1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[Banshee]

Thanks Barnacle!

[JohnnyCanuck]

Good to see AFstill showing up on Byrne's site. Seems he can not escape his creations no matter how much he disliked them. This would have be a really cool piece had he taken some time on it. It looks as though he didn't really put much effort into it. Talisman has a weird looking head. partly due to proportions and partly due to layout. Her hair cutting in front of her face on her left is reating an odd shape for the head which throws some of the proportins off. Had I been paying for this I probably wouldn't have ben so happy about it. On the other hand I already have some great Byrne art from AF#4 so I'm jaded. Had this been my first Byrne art I might be to fan boy to have cared. Fortunately not my problem.

overall still like it but not a fav.

JohnnyCanuck