Official Handbook Updates

[kozzi24]

In the first update, Puck has an entry.

In it, it stated that the version of Alpha from the past was only briefly in our time, so it looks like they cleaned up one of the Volume 3 messes.

[SephirothsKiller]

I'd like to know what happened to the temporal copies then... And does that mean that Temporal Snowbird vanished too?

[-K-M-]

I'd like to know what happened to the temporal copies then... And does that mean that Temporal Snowbird vanished too?

Nope, Yukon Jack entry revealed the T.C Snowbird is married to him.

[Ben]

*sigh* that whole vol.3 ending made such a mess....

IMO that was Lobdell saying "you want classic AF so badly, then you can have 'em" *stomping off*

Ben

[cmdrkoenig67]

*sigh* that whole vol.3 ending made such a mess....

IMO that was Lobdell saying "you want classic AF so badly, then you can have 'em" *stomping off*

Ben

Hey...That's almost exactly what I said about the ending of vol 3 (way back when)...Except I had Scott giving us the finger as he left...sigh.

Dana :(

[Ottawa Renegade]

I'd like to know what happened to the temporal copies then... And does that mean that Temporal Snowbird vanished too?

Nope, Yukon Jack entry revealed the T.C Snowbird is married to him.

Bah...I was perfectly happy to imagine them all having gone *pop* like soap bubbles when time "rebooted" itself. Wonder if anyone took the time to wonder how Snowbird would have managed to stay and the others didn't.

[Loki]

I'd like to know what happened to the temporal copies then... And does that mean that Temporal Snowbird vanished too?

Nope, Yukon Jack entry revealed the T.C Snowbird is married to him.

Bah...I was perfectly happy to imagine them all having gone *pop* like soap bubbles when time "rebooted" itself. Wonder if anyone took the time to wonder how Snowbird would have managed to stay and the others didn't.

Who said she managed to stay? For all we know, when the others went back, so did YJ's wife, leaving him effectively single again.

Seriously, we only know that YJ married the time lost Snowbird, and that it wasn't the timelost Puck who got pounded by the Collective. How long the timelost Alphans stayed, how they left (and if they went home or elsewhere), whether that departure was voluntary (timelost Shaman taking them back using his documented ability to time travel) or not (time "pulling" them back to correct the timelines), whether they all went (likely, but if it was voluntary then perhaps Snowbird stayed, since she had married), etc. None of this is certain. The most likely scenario, if only because it's the least confusing, is that they all went back, including Snowbird, after an indeterminate amount of time, leaving YJ with one of the shortest marriages this side of Britney Spears, but frankly, we don't know for sure.

[-K-M-]

Loki I sent the handbook team that email we talked about, should I expect a timely reply? or wait and see?

[Loki]

Loki I sent the handbook team that email we talked about, should I expect a timely reply? or wait and see?

We're in the middle of a couple of deadlines, so it might take a few days before we have time to go over them.

[-K-M-]

We're in the middle of a couple of deadlines, so it might take a few days before we have time to go over them.

No worries, I forgot to give some issue # of certain feats in question hopefully you guys know what I'm talking about.

[MistressMerr]

Seriously, we only know that YJ married the time lost Snowbird
How do we know this? Did it specify in his entry which Snowbird he married?

[-K-M-]

How do we know this? Did it specify in his entry which Snowbird he married?

and I quote: "After rescuing the original Alpha Flight, Yukon Jack relunctantly remained with the team and, having divorced his previous wives, eventually married Snowbird (Narya) following an adventure that left several Alpha Flight members of the past stranded in the present. The couple returned to Kemteron, where they reign to this day"

It was indeed the temporal copy

[MistressMerr]

That doesn't really say for sure that is was temporal Snowbird. Just that they got married after an adventure that made temporal copies. Maybe I'm just being too picky with grammar. But you'd think that under "Known relatives" it would specify that it is isn't 616 Narya.

[-K-M-]

That doesn't really say for sure that is was temporal Snowbird. Just that they got married after an adventure that made temporal copies. Maybe I'm just being too picky with grammar. But you'd think that under "Known relatives" it would specify that it is isn't 616 Narya.

Well after the temporal copies were created, the real Alpha Flight was still in space.

[MistressMerr]

Okay, that's a pretty good point. Makes more sense now I guess.

[-K-M-]

To avoid confusion I just hope they just make it the real Snowbird.

[MistressMerr]

Ditto.

[DelBubs]

"Oh Great and Wonderous Lobdell,
From your throne on high,
Please be so kind as to explain why you made Alpha FUBAR,
We Thank you for the silly characters and super powered horse,
But the rest is just bollacks"

Thanking you in advance :roll:

[SephirothsKiller]

Ditto. I ditto your ditto.

[Ahab]

To avoid confusion I just hope they just make it the real Snowbird.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and ask why. If a writer wants to use her now, he/she is going to have that history to contend with before freeing the character up for use. The fact that she married him made absolutely no sense to me. Why did she marry him - because they have the same eyes? Give me a break, Lobdell.

[Ben]

To avoid confusion I just hope they just make it the real Snowbird.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and ask why. If a writer wants to use her now, he/she is going to have that history to contend with before freeing the character up for use. The fact that she married him made absolutely no sense to me. Why did she marry him - because they have the same eyes? Give me a break, Lobdell.

I'm with Ahab on this one. I don't want it to have been the real snowbird. With all she has been through, seen and done, she wouldn't have married Yukon Jack IMO. I'm all for the one who married YJ to have vanished in a puff of temporal smoke. Hey, maybe fixing this should be a job for the exiles.

Ben

[-K-M-]

Hey I don't approve of the wedding either, but it happened and is canon. Waht would you want for possible future readers, a less confusing story or more so?

[Ahab]

I would want a less confusing story, which is the point that I was trying to make (albeit perhaps poorly). If Snowbird was the real deal, then any new writer has to deal with Yukon Jack in some way to free her up for use. If she was the temporal copy, the writer wouldn't even have to recognize the situation.

[-K-M-]

I would want a less confusing story, which is the point that I was trying to make (albeit perhaps poorly). If Snowbird was the real deal, then any new writer has to deal with Yukon Jack in some way to free her up for use. If she was the temporal copy, the writer wouldn't even have to recognize the situation.

Freeing her up is quite easy to do, any good or self-respecting writer would have no problems with that issue. If it was the temporal copy, then the writer has to explain the confusing origins and make it seem plausible and not campy to new readers

[SephirothsKiller]

Yah, all that would be needed to extricate 'Birdy from her situation is the text: "Jack! I must go now! The ancient gods have a task for me!!" And that mess would be done with.

[Ahab]

[quote="King Mungi
If it was the temporal copy, then the writer has to explain the confusing origins and make it seem plausible and not campy to new readers[/quote]

Or he could just ignore the whole fact that it happened since it wouldn't really have any impact on the real deal. The only people that would probably even notice that he did would be die-hard AF fans that refuse to believe that she was a temporal copy. :wink:

[-K-M-]

Or he could just ignore the whole fact that it happened since it wouldn't really have any impact on the real deal. The only people that would probably even notice that he did would be die-hard AF fans that refuse to believe that she was a temporal copy. :wink:

If they flat out ignored it, I wouldn't miss it at all. As I wouldn't miss much of what happened in vol.3. I didn't mind Jack, but meh!

[-K-M-]

Oh suprized no one talked about this earlier, but the Puck entry was AWESOME. Very detailed and covered more things I thought it would. I believe you had a part in it Loki?

Just a few corrections: Puck admited he named himself after a hockey Puck, it was Puck II who named herself after the Shakespeare character. Would make sense if it was Eugene since he often reads it, but vol.3 stated it.

How can he have superhuman speed listed above and then on the stats say normal?

Also just enhanced durability? Puck has shown to be bulletproof, as well as walk through fire unharmed and fall heights larger than the CN tower and be fine. He was said to be invulnerable and nearly indestructable.

[SephirothsKiller]

Also just enhanced durability? Puck has shown to be bulletproof, as well as walk through fire unharmed and fall heights larger than the CN tower and be fine. He was said to be invulnerable and nearly indestructable.

He's also been injured before in ways that suggest that he isn't indestructible though, so I guess it depends on what they decided to focus on.

[-K-M-]

He's also been injured before in ways that suggest that he isn't indestructible though, so I guess it depends on what they decided to focus on.

That's what you call PIS (plot induced stupidity) or CIS (character induced stupidity) or as Loki said months ago writers just forgot.

[Loki]

Oh suprized no one talked about this earlier, but the Puck entry was AWESOME. Very detailed and covered more things I thought it would. I believe you had a part in it Loki?

I wrote it. Thanks for the kind words.


Just a few corrections: Puck admited he named himself after a hockey Puck, it was Puck II who named herself after the Shakespeare character. Would make sense if it was Eugene since he often reads it, but vol.3 stated it.

How can he have superhuman speed listed above and then on the stats say normal?

Also just enhanced durability? Puck has shown to be bulletproof, as well as walk through fire unharmed and fall heights larger than the CN tower and be fine. He was said to be invulnerable and nearly indestructable.

I'll get back to you on all these, as I am not at home and so don't have the issues at hand. It's been a few months since I wrote the entry, and before I either agree or debate the points (with one exception below), I feel I should actually double check the issues to make sure of my facts.

The one bit I can explain now is the speed. Since his transformation circa Alpha Flight #90ish, Puck is faster than normal humans - however, while we are talking heightened reflexes and a degree of superhuman speed, its not like he can challenge Speed Demon to a race. The Power Grids, bless 'em, are unable to cope with fine distinctions. Puck doesn't rate a 3 on the grid, because that suggests being able to move around 700 mph (and apart from people who would have said I was wrong if I'd listed him as a 3, there would also be the risk that a future writer might read that entry and the next thing you know, we'd have Puck zooming around like a demented rocket). Puck strictly rates a bit higher than a 2 speed, but since he is so low down below what 3 is rated as, that 2 was the closest I could get to his correct rating (we can't do 2.1 or 2.2 on the grid).

[Phil]

The Puck entry also appears to have clarified the position on the timeline of the X-Men Unlimited issue, where we worked it out to be; between volumes 1 & 2.

[-K-M-]

I wrote it. Thanks for the kind words.

It was very good, well written, very diverse and fixed up some continuity issues as Phil just explained. I greatly enjoyed this entry, did Puck justice.



The one bit I can explain now is the speed. Since his transformation circa Alpha Flight #90ish, Puck is faster than normal humans - however, while we are talking heightened reflexes and a degree of superhuman speed, its not like he can challenge Speed Demon to a race. The Power Grids, bless 'em, are unable to cope with fine distinctions. Puck doesn't rate a 3 on the grid, because that suggests being able to move around 700 mph (and apart from people who would have said I was wrong if I'd listed him as a 3, there would also be the risk that a future writer might read that entry and the next thing you know, we'd have Puck zooming around like a demented rocket). Puck strictly rates a bit higher than a 2 speed, but since he is so low down below what 3 is rated as, that 2 was the closest I could get to his correct rating (we can't do 2.1 or 2.2 on the grid).

That makes perfect sense, the old Marvel Universe handbooks listed him at 111-115 miles per hour. However, I definetly see where you were coming from.

Thanks for the clarification

[Loki]

I wrote it. Thanks for the kind words.

It was very good, well written, very diverse and fixed up some continuity issues as Phil just explained. I greatly enjoyed this entry, did Puck justice.

Again, thanks. I like Puck, he's an interesting character, and piecing together a coherent history from him based on the various snippets of information he's dropped over the years wasn't work, it was fun.




The one bit I can explain now is the speed. Since his transformation circa Alpha Flight #90ish, Puck is faster than normal humans - however, while we are talking heightened reflexes and a degree of superhuman speed, its not like he can challenge Speed Demon to a race. The Power Grids, bless 'em, are unable to cope with fine distinctions. Puck doesn't rate a 3 on the grid, because that suggests being able to move around 700 mph (and apart from people who would have said I was wrong if I'd listed him as a 3, there would also be the risk that a future writer might read that entry and the next thing you know, we'd have Puck zooming around like a demented rocket). Puck strictly rates a bit higher than a 2 speed, but since he is so low down below what 3 is rated as, that 2 was the closest I could get to his correct rating (we can't do 2.1 or 2.2 on the grid).

That makes perfect sense, the old Marvel Universe handbooks listed him at 111-115 miles per hour. However, I definetly see where you were coming from.

Thanks for the clarification

No problem. I should point out that the Master Edition, which is the Handbook you've mentioned, didn't strictly say he could move at 111-115 mph. What it said was that he was in the speed bracket whose top speed was that (and above the speed bracket whose top speed was 65mph). So again we have a range, though a tighter one than the current grids give us. From what we've seen in the comics, I wouldn't place him at the 115 mph end the scale.

Anyway, now gone back and rechecked the issues of Alpha Flight to respond to your other comments. Proviso here, I haven't re-read all his guest appearances, as they are scattered all through my collection, so if you have a counter-example from there, feel free to bring it up. I freely admit there is always the chance I can miss something.


Just a few corrections: Puck admited he named himself after a hockey Puck, it was Puck II who named herself after the Shakespeare character. Would make sense if it was Eugene since he often reads it, but vol.3 stated it.

Actually, strictly speaking, it was the Plodex copy of him. Would that copy have a reason to lie over such a minor thing? No, I can't think of one. Could he get it wrong? Yes, in theory. Ever seen the original Star Trek "What are little girls made of?". Someone copies Kirk, but he has enough will power to place a clue, a response which is atypical of the real Kirk and will alert others to this being a fake.

Earlier Handbooks confirmed what I think John Byrne explained in interviews but never got round to saying in the actual pages of the comics, which is that Puck chose his name after the character in Shakespeare's play. Normally a statement in the pages of the comic would overrule the Handbook (and the original creator's intentions), but it's coming from a potentially unreliable source. I'll admit, when I was writing Puck, I missed that, because I wasn't paying attention to what the ersatz Puck said (I had a couple hundred issues to go through for Puck, and by the end I wasn't paying as tight attention to those around him, because the profile was about Puck, not them).

So, we've got definitive statement in earlier Handbooks based on creator's intentions contradicted by definitive statement from an unreliable source. I'm not going to just dismiss the evidence which suggests I got it wrong, because that would be biased of me, ignoring the bits which don't support "my side" of the debate. But equally, if Alpha Flight vol.1 had confirmed the Shakespeare connection, no one would argue that vol.3 simply got it wrong, and Handbooks are also canonical sources (Gruenwald used them to add in backstory the comics provided by the writers that the regular titles hadn't had space to include, and in that respect they are the same as if the writer had introduced the info in a text story). Plus, it didn't come from the real Puck which does allow for a level of doubt. So what we have here is two conflicting canonical sources. In hindsight, if I had noticed the ersatz Puck's comment, I would simply have left out the comment about where Puck got his name, because rather than confirming the origin of his codename, Plodex Puck's statement has left introduced a level of doubt. We are no longer sure which version is accurate.


Also just enhanced durability? Puck has shown to be bulletproof, as well as walk through fire unharmed and fall heights larger than the CN tower and be fine. He was said to be invulnerable and nearly indestructable.

Okay, part of this is the type of power grid we now use, and part of it is that it seems Puck's power levels have faded since he intially got shrunk back into a dwarf.

On the former, the Master Edition grids had different levels, and they don't always equate. We've had people look at Punisher having a fighting skills level of 7 while Iron Fist has a level of 6, and concluding that we are claiming Punisher could take Iron Fist in hand-to-hand combat, missing the point that the fighting skills grid becomes non-linear at the top end (e.g. 6 is not always less than 7). 6 means expert in many types of combat, 7 means expert in all. Iron Fist (the current one, rather than his recently introduced predecessor) isn't skilled with guns, for example, so he can't be a 7; Punisher is a jack-of-all-trades, expert in pretty much everything, so he gets a 7 - but there are different levels of expertise, and if he entered a fair hand-to-hand, no dirty tactics or weapons, fight with Iron Fist, the Fist would hand him his head (of course, the Punisher wouldn't fight fair, or without weapons if he can help it). Its the difference between being a Black Belt and being a fifth dan Black Belt; both are experts, one's more of an expert than the other.

In the same way, the durability grid isn't as defined as it used to be. Someone with 3, enhanced durability can be much tougher and harder to hurt than Wolverine, who was 4 (regenerative) on the scale; its the healing that gives you the 4. "Enhanced" covers a potentially huge range, and covers anything up to the point where bullets and other penetrative attacks can't penetrate.

On the latter, power fading. Can you provide me examples of where he was bulletproof (where did bullets bounce off him), the fire and the fall? As I said, I could have missed those, but re-reading, I didn't spot any of them in Alpha Flight. Shortly after his becoming a dwarf again he is seen venturing near flames alongside Diamond Lil, and he does take blasts from an alien spaceship around #100, but we don't really know just how powerful those blasts are. We are told he is incredibly tough, but there's surprisingly little evidence to back it up. However, subsequent to this (e.g. as soon as writers other than the one who gave Puck the enhanced powers), we get little indication of Puck having such durability. In fact, during the second Alpha Flight run, he gets blasted unconscious time and again - and notably he gets knocked out by a punch from a non-superpowered Department H agent in Alpha Flight II #1. His durability seems to have lessened, perhaps dropping closer to human levels over time.

Is this something I like, that a writer seems to have forgotten the level he used to be at? Not really. But equally I can't ignore it, because there's regular evidence of this lower power level. It's exactly the same as the Union Jack entry I wrote for A-Z #12. Joey Chapman is empowered by the Green Knight with the Pendragon spirit, and used to be around the 90 ton range, but now, despite writers mentioning he still has the Pendragon power, we see that Master Man can shrug off Joey's punches but not those of Captain America. Hence, I can include what Joey's power level used to be, hoping another writer might use that, but have to conclude that he has powered down somewhat at the moment. Puck is still tougher than your average person by a fair way, but no longer as tough as he was depicted in the first ten or so issues after he became a dwarf again.

[-K-M-]

Again, thanks. I like Puck, he's an interesting character, and piecing together a coherent history from him based on the various snippets of information he's dropped over the years wasn't work, it was fun.

Yeah it was great, what other etries have you done for the handbooks?



No problem. I should point out that the Master Edition, which is the Handbook you've mentioned, didn't strictly say he could move at 111-115 mph. What it said was that he was in the speed bracket whose top speed was that (and above the speed bracket whose top speed was 65mph). So again we have a range, though a tighter one than the current grids give us. From what we've seen in the comics, I wouldn't place him at the 115 mph end the scale.

Anyway, now gone back and rechecked the issues of Alpha Flight to respond to your other comments. Proviso here, I haven't re-read all his guest appearances, as they are scattered all through my collection, so if you have a counter-example from there, feel free to bring it up. I freely admit there is always the chance I can miss something.

He didn't have to many speed feats that I can think of, only one I can think of is easily dodging Savage Hulk (that was classic Puck) and speedblitzing a terrorist from 20-30 feet away before he could even pull the trigger.

I'm compiling the scans right now, and most of his durability feats did take place in Alpha Flight. I will post them later in the day as I'm heading to work shortly.


Actually, strictly speaking, it was the Plodex copy of him. Would that copy have a reason to lie over such a minor thing? No, I can't think of one. Could he get it wrong? Yes, in theory. Ever seen the original Star Trek "What are little girls made of?". Someone copies Kirk, but he has enough will power to place a clue, a response which is atypical of the real Kirk and will alert others to this being a fake.

Earlier Handbooks confirmed what I think John Byrne explained in interviews but never got round to saying in the actual pages of the comics, which is that Puck chose his name after the character in Shakespeare's play. Normally a statement in the pages of the comic would overrule the Handbook (and the original creator's intentions), but it's coming from a potentially unreliable source. I'll admit, when I was writing Puck, I missed that, because I wasn't paying attention to what the ersatz Puck said (I had a couple hundred issues to go through for Puck, and by the end I wasn't paying as tight attention to those around him, because the profile was about Puck, not them).

So, we've got definitive statement in earlier Handbooks based on creator's intentions contradicted by definitive statement from an unreliable source. I'm not going to just dismiss the evidence which suggests I got it wrong, because that would be biased of me, ignoring the bits which don't support "my side" of the debate. But equally, if Alpha Flight vol.1 had confirmed the Shakespeare connection, no one would argue that vol.3 simply got it wrong, and Handbooks are also canonical sources (Gruenwald used them to add in backstory the comics provided by the writers that the regular titles hadn't had space to include, and in that respect they are the same as if the writer had introduced the info in a text story). Plus, it didn't come from the real Puck which does allow for a level of doubt. So what we have here is two conflicting canonical sources. In hindsight, if I had noticed the ersatz Puck's comment, I would simply have left out the comment about where Puck got his name, because rather than confirming the origin of his codename, Plodex Puck's statement has left introduced a level of doubt. We are no longer sure which version is accurate.


Well apparently the Plodex copies had all their powers, abilities, and memories downloaded into the computer from the original members. So technically he shouldn't have made a mistake, but you may be right. Personally I hope so as Eugene naming himself after the Shakespeare's Puck makes far more sense than Puck II doing it. Also haha nice Star Trek reference.

Which handbooks? I don't recall which one it could have said it. It wasn't The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe #1 (Vol.1) & Master Edition #1 (Vol.3). I also remember Bryne saying: "He's called Puck because of his tendency to do cartwheels and spin around rooms, and crash into things. He wears a black costume with a "P" on the chest." I believe you, I bet it is said somewhere I just havn't read most of the old handbook entries and interview for years. Meh! It's a moot point, and makes perfect sense though.

I think you got it right, and from Puck's experience and who he actually is; a scholar. It makes perfect sense he would name himself after Puck. Also vol.3 had many continuity errors, such as their explanation of Marrina's origins, as well as the Plodex ship, which was the main focus point in the series was well... destroyed in AF #3-4 [Vol.1] (forget which issue)
===
Durability comment I will hopefully get to shortly.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Loki,

I loved the Puck entry and was also very excited to see an entry for Huntarr. I hope there are more Microns/Micronauts (Commander Arcturus Rann, Marionette, Devil and maybe Fireflyte) on the way.

Dana :D

[Loki]

Again, thanks. I like Puck, he's an interesting character, and piecing together a coherent history from him based on the various snippets of information he's dropped over the years wasn't work, it was fun.

Yeah it was great, what other etries have you done for the handbooks?

More than some, less than others, overall quite a few. In that issue, Impossible Man, Nightshade, Diamondback, Hammer, Human Robot, Hunter in Darkness, Mark Hazzard, Nextwave, Speedfreek, and of course Puck.




No problem. I should point out that the Master Edition, which is the Handbook you've mentioned, didn't strictly say he could move at 111-115 mph. What it said was that he was in the speed bracket whose top speed was that (and above the speed bracket whose top speed was 65mph). So again we have a range, though a tighter one than the current grids give us. From what we've seen in the comics, I wouldn't place him at the 115 mph end the scale.

Anyway, now gone back and rechecked the issues of Alpha Flight to respond to your other comments. Proviso here, I haven't re-read all his guest appearances, as they are scattered all through my collection, so if you have a counter-example from there, feel free to bring it up. I freely admit there is always the chance I can miss something.

He didn't have to many speed feats that I can think of, only one I can think of is easily dodging Savage Hulk (that was classic Puck) and speedblitzing a terrorist from 20-30 feet away before he could even pull the trigger.

I'm compiling the scans right now, and most of his durability feats did take place in Alpha Flight. I will post them later in the day as I'm heading to work shortly.


Actually, strictly speaking, it was the Plodex copy of him. Would that copy have a reason to lie over such a minor thing? No, I can't think of one. Could he get it wrong? Yes, in theory. Ever seen the original Star Trek "What are little girls made of?". Someone copies Kirk, but he has enough will power to place a clue, a response which is atypical of the real Kirk and will alert others to this being a fake.

Earlier Handbooks confirmed what I think John Byrne explained in interviews but never got round to saying in the actual pages of the comics, which is that Puck chose his name after the character in Shakespeare's play.

Okay, I'm going to have to eat some crow here. After writing this, I subsequently double checked the earlier Handbooks, and I couldn't find mention of the Shakespeare link. Moreover, while I still am sure I recall something along that line being mentioned in an interview (Marvel Age #1?), another Handbook writer has pointed out that John Byrne's FAQ says otherwise. So, I'll admit I'm at a loss as to where I got it from now. Keep in mind I wrote that entry around four or five months ago, and have written dozens since, so recalling all the details isn't easy. Normally I'm extremely careful only to add in things from the issues themselves, and while I vaguely recall that interview mentioned above, I wouldn't have included information from that in an entry without further corroboration "on camera". Only two options I can see - (1) it was said in an issue, but I foolishly failed to include in my notes I made while reading Puck's appearances as to which one, and now I'm going to have to go back through them all to check; or (2) I suffered some sort of brain infarction while writing, mis-read the ersatz Puck vs. femPuck fight, and put in something completely wrong. Annoying, but if I've made a mistake, I'll admit it. I'll just have to re-read every appearance again, so don't expect a final judgement anytime soon (if I didn't get it wrong, I could be back quickly with the place it was said; if I did get it wrong, then it'll definitely take a while to confirm it by going back through everything).



Normally a statement in the pages of the comic would overrule the Handbook (and the original creator's intentions), but it's coming from a potentially unreliable source. I'll admit, when I was writing Puck, I missed that, because I wasn't paying attention to what the ersatz Puck said (I had a couple hundred issues to go through for Puck, and by the end I wasn't paying as tight attention to those around him, because the profile was about Puck, not them).

So, we've got definitive statement in earlier Handbooks based on creator's intentions contradicted by definitive statement from an unreliable source. I'm not going to just dismiss the evidence which suggests I got it wrong, because that would be biased of me, ignoring the bits which don't support "my side" of the debate. But equally, if Alpha Flight vol.1 had confirmed the Shakespeare connection, no one would argue that vol.3 simply got it wrong, and Handbooks are also canonical sources (Gruenwald used them to add in backstory the comics provided by the writers that the regular titles hadn't had space to include, and in that respect they are the same as if the writer had introduced the info in a text story). Plus, it didn't come from the real Puck which does allow for a level of doubt. So what we have here is two conflicting canonical sources. In hindsight, if I had noticed the ersatz Puck's comment, I would simply have left out the comment about where Puck got his name, because rather than confirming the origin of his codename, Plodex Puck's statement has left introduced a level of doubt. We are no longer sure which version is accurate.


Well apparently the Plodex copies had all their powers, abilities, and memories downloaded into the computer from the original members. So technically he shouldn't have made a mistake, but you may be right. Personally I hope so as Eugene naming himself after the Shakespeare's Puck makes far more sense than Puck II doing it. Also haha nice Star Trek reference.

Which handbooks? I don't recall which one it could have said it. It wasn't The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe #1 (Vol.1) & Master Edition #1 (Vol.3). I also remember Bryne saying: "He's called Puck because of his tendency to do cartwheels and spin around rooms, and crash into things. He wears a black costume with a "P" on the chest." I believe you, I bet it is said somewhere I just havn't read most of the old handbook entries and interview for years. Meh! It's a moot point, and makes perfect sense though.

It would, and what I said would still stand, if I hadn't been wrong about what the earlier Handbooks said. That's why for writing the profiles, we never rely on memory, because it can cheat. My memory said that the comment in the profile came from a Handbook, but that's not the case. However I didn't rely on memory while writing the profile, so if I have added in that Shakespeare reference without finding it first in an issue, I'm at a loss as to why I would have done so.

[Loki]

Loki,

I loved the Puck entry and was also very excited to see an entry for Huntarr. I hope there are more Microns/Micronauts (Commander Arcturus Rann, Marionette, Devil and maybe Fireflyte) on the way.

Dana :D

Plans can change (sometimes we can drop someone we planned to cover because we need to instead cover a new character just introduced, or an old character we hadn't planned on because they've just reappeared), but as things stand, yes, you'll see some more Microns coverage this year.

[-K-M-]

More than some, less than others, overall quite a few. In that issue, Impossible Man, Nightshade, Diamondback, Hammer, Human Robot, Hunter in Darkness, Mark Hazzard, Nextwave, Speedfreek, and of course Puck.

Wow, I'm impressed that's a lot of issues you have to read to complete those bios


Okay, I'm going to have to eat some crow here. After writing this, I subsequently double checked the earlier Handbooks, and I couldn't find mention of the Shakespeare link. Moreover, while I still am sure I recall something along that line being mentioned in an interview (Marvel Age #1?), another Handbook writer has pointed out that John Byrne's FAQ says otherwise. So, I'll admit I'm at a loss as to where I got it from now. Keep in mind I wrote that entry around four or five months ago, and have written dozens since, so recalling all the details isn't easy. Normally I'm extremely careful only to add in things from the issues themselves, and while I vaguely recall that interview mentioned above, I wouldn't have included information from that in an entry without further corroboration "on camera". Only two options I can see - (1) it was said in an issue, but I foolishly failed to include in my notes I made while reading Puck's appearances as to which one, and now I'm going to have to go back through them all to check; or (2) I suffered some sort of brain infarction while writing, mis-read the ersatz Puck vs. femPuck fight, and put in something completely wrong. Annoying, but if I've made a mistake, I'll admit it. I'll just have to re-read every appearance again, so don't expect a final judgement anytime soon (if I didn't get it wrong, I could be back quickly with the place it was said; if I did get it wrong, then it'll definitely take a while to confirm it by going back through everything).

Here's the Marvel Age interview: http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/ma2.htm

haha yeah I understand, trying to recall a small point after just writing 10 enteries in one issue is tough. Truthfully I wouldn't stress it, like I said it's a moot point and makes far more sense than Puck II getting her name from it. I definetly appreicate the concern, but I'm actually quite glad about the possible switch. I'm sure you did get it from somewhere, but I'm drawing a blank



It would, and what I said would still stand, if I hadn't been wrong about what the earlier Handbooks said. That's why for writing the profiles, we never rely on memory, because it can cheat. My memory said that the comment in the profile came from a Handbook, but that's not the case. However I didn't rely on memory while writing the profile, so if I have added in that Shakespeare reference without finding it first in an issue, I'm at a loss as to why I would have done so.

Well if you didn't read that part about vol.3 with the interactions between Plodex Puck and Puck II you must have picked it up somewhere. I'm not sure where, but all honesty it makes far more sense. Puck often quotes Shakespeare in battle, and greatly enjoys his work. Here's another instance showing Puck's a scholar

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Wolverinev1035_wolverine35_11.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Wolverinev1035_wolverine35_12.jpg

[-K-M-]

Okay, part of this is the type of power grid we now use, and part of it is that it seems Puck's power levels have faded since he intially got shrunk back into a dwarf.

Well technically the writer for Alpha Flight vol.2 even admited he was going to ignore the upgrade and return Puck just to a regular atheletic dwarf and ignored the upgrade all together.



On the former, the Master Edition grids had different levels, and they don't always equate. We've had people look at Punisher having a fighting skills level of 7 while Iron Fist has a level of 6, and concluding that we are claiming Punisher could take Iron Fist in hand-to-hand combat, missing the point that the fighting skills grid becomes non-linear at the top end (e.g. 6 is not always less than 7). 6 means expert in many types of combat, 7 means expert in all. Iron Fist (the current one, rather than his recently introduced predecessor) isn't skilled with guns, for example, so he can't be a 7; Punisher is a jack-of-all-trades, expert in pretty much everything, so he gets a 7 - but there are different levels of expertise, and if he entered a fair hand-to-hand, no dirty tactics or weapons, fight with Iron Fist, the Fist would hand him his head (of course, the Punisher wouldn't fight fair, or without weapons if he can help it). Its the difference between being a Black Belt and being a fifth dan Black Belt; both are experts, one's more of an expert than the other.

In the same way, the durability grid isn't as defined as it used to be. Someone with 3, enhanced durability can be much tougher and harder to hurt than Wolverine, who was 4 (regenerative) on the scale; its the healing that gives you the 4. "Enhanced" covers a potentially huge range, and covers anything up to the point where bullets and other penetrative attacks can't penetrate.[/quote]

I understand how the fighting skills could generate abit of controvesy, but durability isn't a broad topic. Especially how the old handbook laid out the different sections. If the new handbook conducted a proper definition of enhanced that would be far more benefical and clear up possible confusions



On the latter, power fading. Can you provide me examples of where he was bulletproof (where did bullets bounce off him), the fire and the fall? As I said, I could have missed those, but re-reading, I didn't spot any of them in Alpha Flight. Shortly after his becoming a dwarf again he is seen venturing near flames alongside Diamond Lil, and he does take blasts from an alien spaceship around #100, but we don't really know just how powerful those blasts are. We are told he is incredibly tough, but there's surprisingly little evidence to back it up. However, subsequent to this (e.g. as soon as writers other than the one who gave Puck the enhanced powers), we get little indication of Puck having such durability. In fact, during the second Alpha Flight run, he gets blasted unconscious time and again - and notably he gets knocked out by a punch from a non-superpowered Department H agent in Alpha Flight II #1. His durability seems to have lessened, perhaps dropping closer to human levels over time.

I don't agree with the fading as that was never addressed just some writers tend to ignore it as I explain in the last paragraph. Below is the various durability feats and statements. Well that's because the writer wanted to ignore the Razer and rubber density, which he said in an interview. He just wanted to go back to Puck as a dwarf nothing more but never explained why.

--------------------------------------------
Durability
---------------------------------------------
The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe - Master Edition #1: Puck (Upgraded)
After reading this even I have really underated the little guy. After the experiments by The Master he really turned into a formiable opponent even matching stats with Spider-Man. If you want to view them, [Click here!] (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-Spider-ManB.jpg). I'm even tempted to make a Puck vs. Spider-Man thread after this. In case your wondering what the areas mean here is the list [Click Here!] (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-17-1_cover_b.jpg)

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-PuckA.jpg
2. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-PuckB.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Avengers #322 (Vol.1): Puck (Upgraded)
Puck mentions his new body is “nearly indestructible�

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/avengers_v1_322_13_rougher.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Avengers #324 (Vol.1): Puck (Upgraded)
Puck makes mention of his “invulnerable� body and blocks from the Combine

1. http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/A_Flight2/avengers_v1_324_11_rougher.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #100 (Vol.1): Puck (Upgraded)
Only half of the story, the other is the Avengers and Alpha Flight do battle against Galactus. Half of the heroes still have to deal with the Consortium invasion of Toronto. Puck shows off his new found durability

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-03.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #100 (Vol.1): Puck (Upgraded)
Puck can survive a several story drop, in reality the ship was over 1000 feet in the air

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AFS-22.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-30.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-34.jpg
4. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight100-37.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #96 (Vol.1): Puck (Upgrade)
Thanks to his upgrade, Puck's immune to fire as he was in a blaze on an oil tanker

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight96-13.jpg





Is this something I like, that a writer seems to have forgotten the level he used to be at? Not really. But equally I can't ignore it, because there's regular evidence of this lower power level. It's exactly the same as the Union Jack entry I wrote for A-Z #12. Joey Chapman is empowered by the Green Knight with the Pendragon spirit, and used to be around the 90 ton range, but now, despite writers mentioning he still has the Pendragon power, we see that Master Man can shrug off Joey's punches but not those of Captain America. Hence, I can include what Joey's power level used to be, hoping another writer might use that, but have to conclude that he has powered down somewhat at the moment. Puck is still tougher than your average person by a fair way, but no longer as tough as he was depicted in the first ten or so issues after he became a dwarf again.

Well Cap tends to make everyone job to him, just recently he hurt Onslaught...yesh!. Also it's a common occurance of Alpha Flight's powers being completly ignored and they tend to "job". Such as Maverick beating Vindicator II and Puck with ease, and Juggernaut smacking around Guardian and Vindicator. Not once did they use their blasts and writer forgot about their shields. Then there is Northstar beating Guardian, and writer forgot Mac has a shield and the fact Mac doesn't wear the suit. He is the suit being a cyborg, so removing the clothing as Northstar did would not depower him. I can name off dozen more instances were other writers "dumb" down Alpha Flight to make their characters look good.

[Loki]

More than some, less than others, overall quite a few. In that issue, Impossible Man, Nightshade, Diamondback, Hammer, Human Robot, Hunter in Darkness, Mark Hazzard, Nextwave, Speedfreek, and of course Puck.

Wow, I'm impressed that's a lot of issues you have to read to complete those bios

You're right about that.



Okay, I'm going to have to eat some crow here. After writing this, I subsequently double checked the earlier Handbooks, and I couldn't find mention of the Shakespeare link. Moreover, while I still am sure I recall something along that line being mentioned in an interview (Marvel Age #1?), another Handbook writer has pointed out that John Byrne's FAQ says otherwise. So, I'll admit I'm at a loss as to where I got it from now. Keep in mind I wrote that entry around four or five months ago, and have written dozens since, so recalling all the details isn't easy. Normally I'm extremely careful only to add in things from the issues themselves, and while I vaguely recall that interview mentioned above, I wouldn't have included information from that in an entry without further corroboration "on camera". Only two options I can see - (1) it was said in an issue, but I foolishly failed to include in my notes I made while reading Puck's appearances as to which one, and now I'm going to have to go back through them all to check; or (2) I suffered some sort of brain infarction while writing, mis-read the ersatz Puck vs. femPuck fight, and put in something completely wrong. Annoying, but if I've made a mistake, I'll admit it. I'll just have to re-read every appearance again, so don't expect a final judgement anytime soon (if I didn't get it wrong, I could be back quickly with the place it was said; if I did get it wrong, then it'll definitely take a while to confirm it by going back through everything).

Here's the Marvel Age interview: http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/ma2.htm


haha yeah I understand, trying to recall a small point after just writing 10 enteries in one issue is tough. Truthfully I wouldn't stress it, like I said it's a moot point and makes far more sense than Puck II getting her name from it. I definetly appreicate the concern, but I'm actually quite glad about the possible switch. I'm sure you did get it from somewhere, but I'm drawing a blank

Okay, I've identified that much, thanks to one of my fellow writers having an excellent memory - Alpha Flight #22 letters page, 1985, Brian Tate: "This is [a] note to all who think that our little friend Puck is named after the small plastic disc that hockey players hit around the ice. Wrong puck. According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, a puck is a mischievous sprite. And I'm sure you will agree with me that this definition certainly suits our short friend better than the former."

Denny O'Neil: "Yes, Brian, we certainly agree with you. After all, Puck has certainly always been short, and through his devilish ways has always boosted the morale of the ALPHA FLIGHT team."

Not as definitive as I remembered (but it was 20 odd years ago I read it), but you had the editor indirectly confirming in the letters that it came from the Shakespeare character. HOWEVER, that still doesn't explain why I included it in the profile - I didn't re-read the letters pages, and I don't include stuff I vaguely recall, I go and check the issues to confirm that niggling memory.




It would, and what I said would still stand, if I hadn't been wrong about what the earlier Handbooks said. That's why for writing the profiles, we never rely on memory, because it can cheat. My memory said that the comment in the profile came from a Handbook, but that's not the case. However I didn't rely on memory while writing the profile, so if I have added in that Shakespeare reference without finding it first in an issue, I'm at a loss as to why I would have done so.

Well if you didn't read that part about vol.3 with the interactions between Plodex Puck and Puck II you must have picked it up somewhere. I'm not sure where, but all honesty it makes far more sense. Puck often quotes Shakespeare in battle, and greatly enjoys his work. Here's another instance showing Puck's a scholar

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Wolverinev1035_wolverine35_11.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Wolverinev1035_wolverine35_12.jpg

I'll figure it out eventually. It may well have been in a guest starring appearance or something like that. It's going to bug me now until I either find it or have searched enough to conclude I got it wrong.

[Loki]

Okay, part of this is the type of power grid we now use, and part of it is that it seems Puck's power levels have faded since he intially got shrunk back into a dwarf.

Well technically the writer for Alpha Flight vol.2 even admited he was going to ignore the upgrade and return Puck just to a regular atheletic dwarf and ignored the upgrade all together.

And there's the problem. If it had been a one-off appearance where a guest writer messed up and forgot how powerful he was, we can write it off as a mistake (or, if you want to "no-prize" it, a temporary power fluctuation). However what we had was the series regular writer saying that he was lowering Puck's power level, and demonstrating it repeatedly over an extended period of time in the title. Annoying though it may be, he has the right to do that the same way FabNic had the right to power Puck up, and he also has the right to do so without showing explicitly why on screen - for reasons as yet unknown Puck's power levels dropped closer to human norm (possibly just a natural process of his body adjusting over time after being shrunk). The Handbook has to represent him as he is now.




On the former, the Master Edition grids had different levels, and they don't always equate. We've had people look at Punisher having a fighting skills level of 7 while Iron Fist has a level of 6, and concluding that we are claiming Punisher could take Iron Fist in hand-to-hand combat, missing the point that the fighting skills grid becomes non-linear at the top end (e.g. 6 is not always less than 7). 6 means expert in many types of combat, 7 means expert in all. Iron Fist (the current one, rather than his recently introduced predecessor) isn't skilled with guns, for example, so he can't be a 7; Punisher is a jack-of-all-trades, expert in pretty much everything, so he gets a 7 - but there are different levels of expertise, and if he entered a fair hand-to-hand, no dirty tactics or weapons, fight with Iron Fist, the Fist would hand him his head (of course, the Punisher wouldn't fight fair, or without weapons if he can help it). Its the difference between being a Black Belt and being a fifth dan Black Belt; both are experts, one's more of an expert than the other.

In the same way, the durability grid isn't as defined as it used to be. Someone with 3, enhanced durability can be much tougher and harder to hurt than Wolverine, who was 4 (regenerative) on the scale; its the healing that gives you the 4. "Enhanced" covers a potentially huge range, and covers anything up to the point where bullets and other penetrative attacks can't penetrate.

I understand how the fighting skills could generate abit of controvesy, but durability isn't a broad topic. Especially how the old handbook laid out the different sections. If the new handbook conducted a proper definition of enhanced that would be far more benefical and clear up possible confusions[/quote]

Not going to argue that - the writers also know the grids aren't as precise as they could be. They were already in place when we all came on board, and we can't change them. The FAQ page on Marvel.com tries to explain/define them a bit better though.




On the latter, power fading. Can you provide me examples of where he was bulletproof (where did bullets bounce off him), the fire and the fall? As I said, I could have missed those, but re-reading, I didn't spot any of them in Alpha Flight. Shortly after his becoming a dwarf again he is seen venturing near flames alongside Diamond Lil, and he does take blasts from an alien spaceship around #100, but we don't really know just how powerful those blasts are. We are told he is incredibly tough, but there's surprisingly little evidence to back it up. However, subsequent to this (e.g. as soon as writers other than the one who gave Puck the enhanced powers), we get little indication of Puck having such durability. In fact, during the second Alpha Flight run, he gets blasted unconscious time and again - and notably he gets knocked out by a punch from a non-superpowered Department H agent in Alpha Flight II #1. His durability seems to have lessened, perhaps dropping closer to human levels over time.

I don't agree with the fading as that was never addressed just some writers tend to ignore it as I explain in the last paragraph.

I don't agree with the fading of Union Jack's powers, especially since the people writing him all keep mentioning he still has the Pendragon spirit in him. However, we have to accept it. People don't just get power upgrades, they get downgrades too. And, as you mentioned above, the writer who downgraded him didn't do so out of a mistake, because he was unaware of Puck's previous power level, he did so out of conscious choice. Would it have been nice if he could have included even a line like "Since my powers faded I've got to be more careful these days" or similar? Yes, but he didn't.


Below is the various durability feats and statements. Well that's because the writer wanted to ignore the Razer and rubber density, which he said in an interview. He just wanted to go back to Puck as a dwarf nothing more but never explained why.

--------------------------------------------
Durability
---------------------------------------------
The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe - Master Edition #1: Puck (Upgraded)
After reading this even I have really underated the little guy. After the experiments by The Master he really turned into a formiable opponent even matching stats with Spider-Man. If you want to view them, [Click here!] (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-01-Spider-ManB.jpg). I'm even tempted to make a Puck vs. Spider-Man thread after this. In case your wondering what the areas mean here is the list [Click Here!] (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/A_Flight3/MasterEdition-17-1_cover_b.jpg)

Thanks. I'd seen these anyway, but as I said, Vol.2 seemed to contradict the durability level. The Handbook levels are canon, but they are a snapshot of him at that point in time, and things change. As such, there's little point individually analysing the examples you provided, all of which come before Volume 2. That said, I had spotted some of them, as noted above - but Puck isn't actually in the fire, so that makes it hard to judge his actual level of resistance (dialogue notwithstanding), it's hard to gauge the power level of the Consortium's energy blasts (undeniably powerful, but unlike being able to bounce bullets, we have no real world comparison's to tell us how powerful such blasts are), and the fall is inconclusive, because Black Widow makes the same drop in those images, and she can neither fly, nor is she superhumanly durable - so either the ship was lower than first seen, or Northstar came back after dropping off his first passenger, or there was something handy on the way down for an acrobatic person to use to slow their fall. Regardless though, I'm not denying Puck was once more durable (though that vague power scale we have now might still have placed him on the 3 based on the feats seen, albeit right at the upper end of it), he isn't now. Since we haven't been told or shown that he's completely back to human levels, the Handbook entry still gives him superhuman strength, speed and durability, just not as high (at least on durability, the one we are able to figure from his fights) as he used to have.

[-K-M-]

And there's the problem. If it had been a one-off appearance where a guest writer messed up and forgot how powerful he was, we can write it off as a mistake (or, if you want to "no-prize" it, a temporary power fluctuation). However what we had was the series regular writer saying that he was lowering Puck's power level, and demonstrating it repeatedly over an extended period of time in the title. Annoying though it may be, he has the right to do that the same way FabNic had the right to power Puck up, and he also has the right to do so without showing explicitly why on screen - for reasons as yet unknown Puck's power levels dropped closer to human norm (possibly just a natural process of his body adjusting over time after being shrunk). The Handbook has to represent him as he is now.

Actually he ignored continuity simply erasing the entire Razer incident. You can't simply erase a HUGE part of his history without any explanation what's so ever. As bad as it was, it still happened. Other writers have shown Mac repeatly without a shield, but that contradicts that is said in the mainstream series. Even in vol.3 they showed Mac without a shield for no reason so do we take that as canon? Even recetly Puck took a full force blow to the back of the head from current Juggernaut and his head wasn't made mush.



I don't agree with the fading of Union Jack's powers, especially since the people writing him all keep mentioning he still has the Pendragon spirit in him. However, we have to accept it. People don't just get power upgrades, they get downgrades too. And, as you mentioned above, the writer who downgraded him didn't do so out of a mistake, because he was unaware of Puck's previous power level, he did so out of conscious choice. Would it have been nice if he could have included even a line like "Since my powers faded I've got to be more careful these days" or similar? Yes, but he didn't.

Well that goes a long with my earlier comment about jobbing. Wolverine and Captain America are perfect characters of where some characters who should easily beat him they don't as their more popular. One time, bone claw Wolverine back handed Mac with his shield up and he groaned in pain. Horrible, just horrible.



Thanks. I'd seen these anyway, but as I said, Vol.2 seemed to contradict the durability level. The Handbook levels are canon, but they are a snapshot of him at that point in time, and things change. As such, there's little point individually analysing the examples you provided, all of which come before Volume 2. That said, I had spotted some of them, as noted above - but Puck isn't actually in the fire, so that makes it hard to judge his actual level of resistance (dialogue notwithstanding), it's hard to gauge the power level of the Consortium's energy blasts (undeniably powerful, but unlike being able to bounce bullets, we have no real world comparison's to tell us how powerful such blasts are), and the fall is inconclusive, because Black Widow makes the same drop in those images, and she can neither fly, nor is she superhumanly durable - so either the ship was lower than first seen, or Northstar came back after dropping off his first passenger, or there was something handy on the way down for an acrobatic person to use to slow their fall. Regardless though, I'm not denying Puck was once more durable (though that vague power scale we have now might still have placed him on the 3 based on the feats seen, albeit right at the upper end of it), he isn't now. Since we haven't been told or shown that he's completely back to human levels, the Handbook entry still gives him superhuman strength, speed and durability, just not as high (at least on durability, the one we are able to figure from his fights) as he used to have.

Well considering his body was basically like compressed rubber, it can take extremes in pressure and temperatures so yeah I'm 100% positive he would not be harmed by the fire. Well considering the Constorium blasts were koing people like the likes of Guardian II with a single blast yes they were VERY powerful. The combined might of the People's Proctate, Avengers and Alpha Flight couldn't do anything to them. Black Widow has also shown to send wires to cling to things from stop failing and they were right beside the CN Tower and just earlier Northstar comments Puck can survive a several story drop. Well as a mentioned getting punched in the back of the head from Juggernaut who was pissed off is a strong indication he is more than just a little over normal human durability.

[kozzi24]

How's this for a quick fix to Puck's inconsistencies between V2 appearances and other appearances before and after:

During the entirety of V2, Puck was pretty much brainwashed. That brainwashing may have included his perceptions of his powers. He was knowcked around easily during V2 because of the brainwashing. With that effect removed and his mind restored, he has "resumed" his compressed rubber abilities, as seen when smacked by Juggernaut.

[Loki]

Sorry for the slow response - deadlines.



And there's the problem. If it had been a one-off appearance where a guest writer messed up and forgot how powerful he was, we can write it off as a mistake (or, if you want to "no-prize" it, a temporary power fluctuation). However what we had was the series regular writer saying that he was lowering Puck's power level, and demonstrating it repeatedly over an extended period of time in the title. Annoying though it may be, he has the right to do that the same way FabNic had the right to power Puck up, and he also has the right to do so without showing explicitly why on screen - for reasons as yet unknown Puck's power levels dropped closer to human norm (possibly just a natural process of his body adjusting over time after being shrunk). The Handbook has to represent him as he is now.

Actually he ignored continuity simply erasing the entire Razer incident. You can't simply erase a HUGE part of his history without any explanation what's so ever. As bad as it was, it still happened.

Agreed, both that you can't just erase the continuity and that Razer wasn't the most inspired addition to Puck's backstory. It would have been nice when writing the profile to ignore it, but that wasn't an option. Trouble is, Seagle didn't actively erase Razer (as far as I recall), he just never brought it up. While he may have said in interviews that as far as he was concerned it never happened (from what you have told me), he didn't actively contradict it, he just didn't mention it - which is perfectly allowable.


Other writers have shown Mac repeatly without a shield, but that contradicts that is said in the mainstream series. Even in vol.3 they showed Mac without a shield for no reason so do we take that as canon?

We can take it either as an error, or if shown often enough, assume his shield's not as reliable as he'd like it to be (e.g. it's not always on). The Handbooks can't normally ignore evidence, we have to try and explain it. Odd occasions, we can put down to characters having off-days or writer error, repeated instances we suggest reasons for.


Even recetly Puck took a full force blow to the back of the head from current Juggernaut and his head wasn't made mush.

Now that's a valid point. Puck was repeatedly show with a lower durability during volume 2, suggesting a power drop for some reason. Taking a blow from Juggernaut in itself doesn't prove enhanced durability (various heroes in the X-Men who lack durability have taken blows), but does suggest the power level going back up somewhat (from Volume 2 when a normal human hitting him hard on the head KOed him). On it's own though, it might not prove a level higher than enhanced, because as I said before, enhanced covers a fairly wide range.




I don't agree with the fading of Union Jack's powers, especially since the people writing him all keep mentioning he still has the Pendragon spirit in him. However, we have to accept it. People don't just get power upgrades, they get downgrades too. And, as you mentioned above, the writer who downgraded him didn't do so out of a mistake, because he was unaware of Puck's previous power level, he did so out of conscious choice. Would it have been nice if he could have included even a line like "Since my powers faded I've got to be more careful these days" or similar? Yes, but he didn't.

Well that goes a long with my earlier comment about jobbing. Wolverine and Captain America are perfect characters of where some characters who should easily beat him they don't as their more popular. One time, bone claw Wolverine back handed Mac with his shield up and he groaned in pain. Horrible, just horrible.

Jobbing happens on occasion, and can be written off as one hero having a good day while another has a bad day. However, as I've said, the problem with Puck was that Volume 2 showed a consistent reduction in durability level.




Thanks. I'd seen these anyway, but as I said, Vol.2 seemed to contradict the durability level. The Handbook levels are canon, but they are a snapshot of him at that point in time, and things change. As such, there's little point individually analysing the examples you provided, all of which come before Volume 2. That said, I had spotted some of them, as noted above - but Puck isn't actually in the fire, so that makes it hard to judge his actual level of resistance (dialogue notwithstanding), it's hard to gauge the power level of the Consortium's energy blasts (undeniably powerful, but unlike being able to bounce bullets, we have no real world comparison's to tell us how powerful such blasts are), and the fall is inconclusive, because Black Widow makes the same drop in those images, and she can neither fly, nor is she superhumanly durable - so either the ship was lower than first seen, or Northstar came back after dropping off his first passenger, or there was something handy on the way down for an acrobatic person to use to slow their fall. Regardless though, I'm not denying Puck was once more durable (though that vague power scale we have now might still have placed him on the 3 based on the feats seen, albeit right at the upper end of it), he isn't now. Since we haven't been told or shown that he's completely back to human levels, the Handbook entry still gives him superhuman strength, speed and durability, just not as high (at least on durability, the one we are able to figure from his fights) as he used to have.

Well considering his body was basically like compressed rubber, it can take extremes in pressure and temperatures so yeah I'm 100% positive he would not be harmed by the fire. Well considering the Constorium blasts were koing people like the likes of Guardian II with a single blast yes they were VERY powerful. The combined might of the People's Proctate, Avengers and Alpha Flight couldn't do anything to them. Black Widow has also shown to send wires to cling to things from stop failing and they were right beside the CN Tower and just earlier Northstar comments Puck can survive a several story drop. Well as a mentioned getting punched in the back of the head from Juggernaut who was pissed off is a strong indication he is more than just a little over normal human durability.

I don't want to get into an arguement over the examples you provided. I do actually agree with you that Puck's level was that much higher back then; I just wanted to point out that those specific examples aren't automatically as clear cut as they might be, and that regardless, later evidence shows a reduction in durability level. And enhanced doesn't mean "just a little over normal human durability"; like the strength levels, its a range.

[Loki]

How's this for a quick fix to Puck's inconsistencies between V2 appearances and other appearances before and after:

During the entirety of V2, Puck was pretty much brainwashed. That brainwashing may have included his perceptions of his powers. He was knowcked around easily during V2 because of the brainwashing. With that effect removed and his mind restored, he has "resumed" his compressed rubber abilities, as seen when smacked by Juggernaut.

The problem with that is that Puck was first seen being knocked out by a normal human agent of Department H BEFORE any brainwashing took place.

A better case might be that excessive and repeated usage of alcohol can affect his body chemistry, and reduce his durabilty for long periods of time (months, based on Vol.2) until it completely leaves his body tissues. After all, he started Vol.2 coming off a lengthy bender...

[Ben]

The problem with that Loki is that he doesn't have something in his tissue making him durable, he is a full sized man basically compacted into a very small body, his cells are just closer together making him more durable. That's not something that booze could take away.

I understand the need to explain inconsistencies in the handbooks, but I don't see how this could be the case.

Ben

[Loki]

The problem with that Loki is that he doesn't have something in his tissue making him durable, he is a full sized man basically compacted into a very small body, his cells are just closer together making him more durable. That's not something that booze could take away.

I understand the need to explain inconsistencies in the handbooks, but I don't see how this could be the case.

Ben

The Handbooks don't need to explain why he was demonstrably less durable as of Volume 2. I was simply offering a different option to provide a possible way of explaining why he might be less durable for a time, but allow him to start regaining it. Brainwashing can't be the option, because the brainwashing in question started after he was shown to be less durable. Alcohol was simply suggested as (1) it affects the body physically, and (2) it would also be simple for Puck to reverse - he doesn't even need to become tee-total, just not to go on lenghty and prolonged binges. At the end of the day, the explanation for his powers, like most of those in the superhero field, make no real world sense; our bodies are, in a very real sense, made up of what we ingest, so suggesting something he has eaten or drunk might affect his durability isn't anymore outlandish than suggesting that compacting a human body would make it tougher.

At the end of the day, suggested explanations of how or why aside, Puck's durability dropped by the start of Volume 2. It seems to have gone back up somewhat (the punch from Juggernaut), though not necessarily to its previous levels.

[-K-M-]

Sorry for the slow response - deadlines.

Oh no worries, perfectly fine. I appreicate the time you do take to reply back to us.



Agreed, both that you can't just erase the continuity and that Razer wasn't the most inspired addition to Puck's backstory. It would have been nice when writing the profile to ignore it, but that wasn't an option. Trouble is, Seagle didn't actively erase Razer (as far as I recall), he just never brought it up. While he may have said in interviews that as far as he was concerned it never happened (from what you have told me), he didn't actively contradict it, he just didn't mention it - which is perfectly allowable.

Yeah he mentioned he wanted to ignore it completly, and in the X-Men Encylopedia they actually ignored and didn't explain the Master's connection of how he became a dwarf again and nothing about the compressed rubber even gave him peak human durability in the stats. They made it seem it natuarally happened to him that he became a dwarf again.


We can take it either as an error, or if shown often enough, assume his shield's not as reliable as he'd like it to be (e.g. it's not always on). The Handbooks can't normally ignore evidence, we have to try and explain it. Odd occasions, we can put down to characters having off-days or writer error, repeated instances we suggest reasons for.

The shields are always come on automatic if he is flying and that's when Wolverine back-handed him. He's shrugged off blows from Wendigo, Wonderman Colossus and even an atomic blast with Vindicator III ..but Wolverine? goes back to jobbing.



Now that's a valid point. Puck was repeatedly show with a lower durability during volume 2, suggesting a power drop for some reason. Taking a blow from Juggernaut in itself doesn't prove enhanced durability (various heroes in the X-Men who lack durability have taken blows), but does suggest the power level going back up somewhat (from Volume 2 when a normal human hitting him hard on the head KOed him). On it's own though, it might not prove a level higher than enhanced, because as I said before, enhanced covers a fairly wide range.

Well it was from a pissed off Juggernaut and to the back of the head, most of the time Jugz is just annoyed not pissed and doesn't have a goal such as protecting Sammy the Fishboy. Man Alpha Flight was written horrible in that issue.



Jobbing happens on occasion, and can be written off as one hero having a good day while another has a bad day. However, as I've said, the problem with Puck was that Volume 2 showed a consistent reduction in durability level.

Actually happens to Alpha Flight more times than not considering their power. Such as Sasquatch and Sabertooth, which uhhhh...badly written and also went against what was stated you can't kill a Wendigo. Mauvais did it, because he cut of the Gods of the Artic's connection to the real world, even nearly killed Snowbird doing it. I also noticed his bio in the Wolverine handbook doesn't quite matchup to what is said in the comic, I assume they were limited on space so they couldn't eleborate.



I don't want to get into an arguement over the examples you provided. I do actually agree with you that Puck's level was that much higher back then; I just wanted to point out that those specific examples aren't automatically as clear cut as they might be, and that regardless, later evidence shows a reduction in durability level. And enhanced doesn't mean "just a little over normal human durability"; like the strength levels, its a range.

I understand, but I don't see how logically his durability would just suddenly decrease for no-apparent reason.

[Loki]

Agreed, both that you can't just erase the continuity and that Razer wasn't the most inspired addition to Puck's backstory. It would have been nice when writing the profile to ignore it, but that wasn't an option. Trouble is, Seagle didn't actively erase Razer (as far as I recall), he just never brought it up. While he may have said in interviews that as far as he was concerned it never happened (from what you have told me), he didn't actively contradict it, he just didn't mention it - which is perfectly allowable.

Yeah he mentioned he wanted to ignore it completly, and in the X-Men Encylopedia they actually ignored and didn't explain the Master's connection of how he became a dwarf again and nothing about the compressed rubber even gave him peak human durability in the stats. They made it seem it natuarally happened to him that he became a dwarf again.

The X-Men Encyclopedia was written before most of the current Handbook team got involved, and it's definitely a much rougher reference guide than subsequent efforts (compare it with the Spider-Man Encyclopedia, which was where the writing team started to take shape). I'd agree that the stats are definitely off, and the history is much less in-depth, glossing over a lot of Puck's later history. To be fair, Eric, who wrote that Encyclopedia, had very little time to compile all the bios and no one else to either split the workload with or to check for errors creeping in; as such, I think he did a pretty decent job overall, but it's certainly not as polished or accurate as our later work.



We can take it either as an error, or if shown often enough, assume his shield's not as reliable as he'd like it to be (e.g. it's not always on). The Handbooks can't normally ignore evidence, we have to try and explain it. Odd occasions, we can put down to characters having off-days or writer error, repeated instances we suggest reasons for.

The shields are always come on automatic if he is flying and that's when Wolverine back-handed him. He's shrugged off blows from Wendigo, Wonderman Colossus and even an atomic blast with Vindicator III ..but Wolverine? goes back to jobbing.

It does sound that way, although as always I'd prefer to double check the exact circumstances before saying so definitively.




Now that's a valid point. Puck was repeatedly show with a lower durability during volume 2, suggesting a power drop for some reason. Taking a blow from Juggernaut in itself doesn't prove enhanced durability (various heroes in the X-Men who lack durability have taken blows), but does suggest the power level going back up somewhat (from Volume 2 when a normal human hitting him hard on the head KOed him). On it's own though, it might not prove a level higher than enhanced, because as I said before, enhanced covers a fairly wide range.

Well it was from a pissed off Juggernaut and to the back of the head, most of the time Jugz is just annoyed not pissed and doesn't have a goal such as protecting Sammy the Fishboy. Man Alpha Flight was written horrible in that issue.

Even while that angry, this was the slightly-less-powerful-than-he-used-to-be Juggernaut, who was arguably holding back at least a little so that he didn't kill anyone. However, as I said, I would still take it as evidence that Puck either retains a good portion of his previous durability, or had begun to recover it.




Jobbing happens on occasion, and can be written off as one hero having a good day while another has a bad day. However, as I've said, the problem with Puck was that Volume 2 showed a consistent reduction in durability level.

Actually happens to Alpha Flight more times than not considering their power.

Probably because they've been mostly guest stars in recent years. Home-team advantage, and even if they are helping out the star of another book, it's not the done thing for the guest star to win out the day when the star can't.


Such as Sasquatch and Sabertooth, which uhhhh...badly written and also went against what was stated you can't kill a Wendigo.

Haven't researched that, but it depends who stated it and where. Plus, as you outline below, specific circumstances can provide cases where such definitive statements prove not to be entirely accurate.


Mauvais did it, because he cut of the Gods of the Artic's connection to the real world, even nearly killed Snowbird doing it. I also noticed his bio in the Wolverine handbook doesn't quite matchup to what is said in the comic, I assume they were limited on space so they couldn't eleborate.

Not knowing the exact circumstances (I'd have to dig out both the issues and the relevant Handbook to compare), I can't say for sure, but space restrictions do impact on how much we can explain certain things a lot of the time.




I don't want to get into an arguement over the examples you provided. I do actually agree with you that Puck's level was that much higher back then; I just wanted to point out that those specific examples aren't automatically as clear cut as they might be, and that regardless, later evidence shows a reduction in durability level. And enhanced doesn't mean "just a little over normal human durability"; like the strength levels, its a range.

I understand, but I don't see how logically his durability would just suddenly decrease for no-apparent reason.

Presumably there is a reason (in story I mean; we already know the real world reason), just one we aren't privy to. I could try to "no-prize" it, as I did with the alcohol suggestion or kozzi24 did with the brainwashing suggestion, though neither is a perfect fit, but the truth is that we don't yet know why.

[kozzi24]

V2's run seems to indicate that the events throughout had been planned by Dept H for a while, so couldn't Puck (and Heather) have had some distant conditioning prior to the actual brainwashing? Something akin to Headlok or someone weakening their mental will prior to their capture?

I do like your alcoholism suggestion, Stuart, it does work, and can actually be consistent with distant pre-brainwashing conditioning. As Puck's will weakened due to mental manipulation, he started on his bender, to the result that he was weakened by the human attack at the beginning of Volume 2.

And just a point on what I interpret to be Marvel policy...maybe you should be able to outright allow some explanations, such as the Puck power wane that does now seem temporary. Yes, I understand that some future writer may come up with a story independently that may contraddict what was simply explained away in a handbook. But isn't the goal with older characters to make them user-friendly, specifically to get rid of as much baggage as possible to make them accessible to new readers? I'd think getting the explanations away and saying, "this is his power level now" kind of clears the table for future use.

[-K-M-]

The X-Men Encyclopedia was written before most of the current Handbook team got involved, and it's definitely a much rougher reference guide than subsequent efforts (compare it with the Spider-Man Encyclopedia, which was where the writing team started to take shape). I'd agree that the stats are definitely off, and the history is much less in-depth, glossing over a lot of Puck's later history. To be fair, Eric, who wrote that Encyclopedia, had very little time to compile all the bios and no one else to either split the workload with or to check for errors creeping in; as such, I think he did a pretty decent job overall, but it's certainly not as polished or accurate as our later work.

I understand, but that's a huge peice of history that was missed out on. Other than that the bio was fine.



Even while that angry, this was the slightly-less-powerful-than-he-used-to-be Juggernaut, who was arguably holding back at least a little so that he didn't kill anyone. However, as I said, I would still take it as evidence that Puck either retains a good portion of his previous durability, or had begun to recover it.

As per the handbooks class 100 even in his current state. Yeah that's how I feel too



Probably because they've been mostly guest stars in recent years. Home-team advantage, and even if they are helping out the star of another book, it's not the done thing for the guest star to win out the day when the star can't.

Indeed, but as guest stars they make their personalities vastly different, and powers vastly inferior to where ever they appear in. Since they may job in a mainstream comic other writers tend to follow their guest apperance ignoring continuity.


Haven't researched that, but it depends who stated it and where. Plus, as you outline below, specific circumstances can provide cases where such definitive statements prove not to be entirely accurate.

Well basically every single apperances, from Wolverine, Marvel Preview, Blaze, etc. stated the host can't be killed. Even when Werewolf of the Night went to confront Wendigo as once a year or some jazz like that he becomes human again. Both he and werewolf of the night said he was immortal. Also wooden spikes impaling Sasquatch from the Sabertooth mini? :(



Not knowing the exact circumstances (I'd have to dig out both the issues and the relevant Handbook to compare), I can't say for sure, but space restrictions do impact on how much we can explain certain things a lot of the time.

Contradicted to what was said in the actual comic and left out important information that was key. I didn't think much of it as I just assumed space was a key factor.



Presumably there is a reason (in story I mean; we already know the real world reason), just one we aren't privy to. I could try to "no-prize" it, as I did with the alcohol suggestion or kozzi24 did with the brainwashing suggestion, though neither is a perfect fit, but the truth is that we don't yet know why.

Alcohol or brain washing won't completly disrupt or alter a person who was molecular compacted. Plus with his metahuman durability he was immune to toxins and poisons so the "problems" with alcohol but all accounts should not have done anything.

[-K-M-]

As Puck's will weakened due to mental manipulation, he started on his bender, to the result that he was weakened by the human attack at the beginning of Volume 2.

Alpha Flight #1 vol.2, had massive contuinity errors right from the first page. Such as the fight with Wolverine and Mac. When Mac created the most updated Guardian suit Wolverine was no longer feral. So why is Wolverine in his X-Men suit and Guardian in his current Guardian suit? This contradicts what is shown and said in "Alpha Flight Special: First Flight and "Alpha Flight: In the Beginning" as Wolverine was perfectly fine non-feral even led First Flight and also helped saved Orloo from Chinnok. Also during both those comics, Guardian only had the Groundhog armor not his Guardian suit. So vol.2 #1 had major contunity errors. I took it as simply brain washing implant, but then the handbooks added it in.

As you can see I'm a contunity nut, and then there's the fact why would Wolverine's claws even penetrate Mac's shields...but I'll leave that for another time.

[Loki]

Haven't researched that, but it depends who stated it and where. Plus, as you outline below, specific circumstances can provide cases where such definitive statements prove not to be entirely accurate.

Well basically every single apperances, from Wolverine, Marvel Preview, Blaze, etc. stated the host can't be killed. Even when Werewolf of the Night went to confront Wendigo as once a year or some jazz like that he becomes human again. Both he and werewolf of the night said he was immortal. Also wooden spikes impaling Sasquatch from the Sabertooth mini? :(

On the Wendigo, I'm fairly sure he can be killed (it takes a lot to bring him down, but he's been beaten often enough). The problem is that slaying him simply stops him until someone else commits cannibalism, and then he's back.




Not knowing the exact circumstances (I'd have to dig out both the issues and the relevant Handbook to compare), I can't say for sure, but space restrictions do impact on how much we can explain certain things a lot of the time.

Contradicted to what was said in the actual comic and left out important information that was key. I didn't think much of it as I just assumed space was a key factor.

If it contradicts what happened in the comic, then unless there's a specific reason for doing so (e.g. the entry is trying to clear up conflicting accounts of an event), it is likely to be errata. Remind me of the specific thing you think is contradictory, and I'll check the issues vs. the Handbook account.




Presumably there is a reason (in story I mean; we already know the real world reason), just one we aren't privy to. I could try to "no-prize" it, as I did with the alcohol suggestion or kozzi24 did with the brainwashing suggestion, though neither is a perfect fit, but the truth is that we don't yet know why.

Alcohol or brain washing won't completly disrupt or alter a person who was molecular compacted. Plus with his metahuman durability he was immune to toxins and poisons so the "problems" with alcohol but all accounts should not have done anything.

Point taken - as I said, neither suggestion was perfect. Regardless of why, something happened to reduce his power levels between series (possibly even before the end of Volume 1).

[maniac mike]

Marvel Magic Handbook comes out this May and Talisman graces the cover, here's the link..

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/solicitiations.html

MM :P

[Legerd]

Marvel Magic Handbook comes out this May and Talisman graces the cover, here's the link..

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/solicitiations.html

MM :P

Nice, but who is Captain Rooster beside her? Hell, who are most of those people?! :?

[-K-M-]

On the Wendigo, I'm fairly sure he can be killed (it takes a lot to bring him down, but he's been beaten often enough). The problem is that slaying him simply stops him until someone else commits cannibalism, and then he's back.

Well they actually said when the Wenidgo possesses the human host becomes immortal.



f it contradicts what happened in the comic, then unless there's a specific reason for doing so (e.g. the entry is trying to clear up conflicting accounts of an event), it is likely to be errata. Remind me of the specific thing you think is contradictory, and I'll check the issues vs. the Handbook account.

I just reread it, and it was alright. They just left out some key points, but I remembered some points wrong. Only thing I saw wrong is they they said Mauvais was weakened so the Gods of the Arctic beat him, but he wasn't he was actually at full power as all the magic from the column went back into him.

Also are there any more AF related characters appearing in the Marvel Universe: Updates?


Marvel Magic Handbook comes out this May and Talisman graces the cover, here's the link..

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/solicitiations.html

MM :P

Woot that's awesome, she's in her old costume to boot. Actually shocked Dr.Strange didn't appear on the cover

[maniac mike]

Marvel Magic Handbook comes out this May and Talisman graces the cover, here's the link..

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/solicitiations.html

MM :P

Nice, but who is Captain Rooster beside her? Hell, who are most of those people?! :?

"Captain Rooster" is actually the Black Talon, of the rest, I know of only these characters on the cover, Technomage, Talisman, Black Crow, Agatha Harkness, Dredmund Druid, Dreamweaver, Modred & Rintrah.

MM :x

[Loki]

On the Wendigo, I'm fairly sure he can be killed (it takes a lot to bring him down, but he's been beaten often enough). The problem is that slaying him simply stops him until someone else commits cannibalism, and then he's back.

Well they actually said when the Wenidgo possesses the human host becomes immortal.

First, it depends on the reliability of the source - are they an authority, or are they speaking about the legend? If a regular human says the Wendigo is immortal, that might be because that until it took on someone superhuman, no one was ever able to defeat it, and so its built up a myth of being indestructible.

Second, it depends what they mean by immortal (if that's the exact word). Hercules is immortal, but he can be killed - just not by old age or natural causes.




f it contradicts what happened in the comic, then unless there's a specific reason for doing so (e.g. the entry is trying to clear up conflicting accounts of an event), it is likely to be errata. Remind me of the specific thing you think is contradictory, and I'll check the issues vs. the Handbook account.

I just reread it, and it was alright. They just left out some key points, but I remembered some points wrong. Only thing I saw wrong is they they said Mauvais was weakened so the Gods of the Arctic beat him, but he wasn't he was actually at full power as all the magic from the column went back into him.

I'll still double check that, because if it's errata, it should be listed as such.


Also are there any more AF related characters appearing in the Marvel Universe: Updates?


Marvel Magic Handbook comes out this May and Talisman graces the cover, here's the link..

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/solicitiations.html

MM :P

Woot that's awesome, she's in her old costume to boot.

Well, as you can see, there's Talisman (which I handed in a week or so back). I'm fairly sure there are other Alphans pencilled in for the rest of the year.


Actually shocked Dr.Strange didn't appear on the cover

We try to avoid covering people already recently covered as much as we can, unless they have a major update to be added. Strange was in the Marvel Knights handbook, with quite a lengthy entry.

[-K-M-]

First, it depends on the reliability of the source - are they an authority, or are they speaking about the legend? If a regular human says the Wendigo is immortal, that might be because that until it took on someone superhuman, no one was ever able to defeat it, and so its built up a myth of being indestructible.

Second, it depends what they mean by immortal (if that's the exact word). Hercules is immortal, but he can be killed - just not by old age or natural causes.


*shrugs* They just said immortal, such as Shaman said the host was immortal, even Wolverine in his first apperance said he was immortal and an attack that should have killed him Wendigo quickly rose again as the same human host. Then in Marvel Preview when the Wendigo host was transformed back into a human, while Werewolf of the Night watched on he (the host) commented that he was immortal not just the spirit.



Well, as you can see, there's Talisman (which I handed in a week or so back). I'm fairly sure there are other Alphans pencilled in for the rest of the year.

Oh Excellent you did her entry, anything interesting you can reveal for us? 8)

[Loki]

First, it depends on the reliability of the source - are they an authority, or are they speaking about the legend? If a regular human says the Wendigo is immortal, that might be because that until it took on someone superhuman, no one was ever able to defeat it, and so its built up a myth of being indestructible.

Second, it depends what they mean by immortal (if that's the exact word). Hercules is immortal, but he can be killed - just not by old age or natural causes.


*shrugs* They just said immortal, such as Shaman said the host was immortal, even Wolverine in his first apperance said he was immortal and an attack that should have killed him Wendigo quickly rose again as the same human host. Then in Marvel Preview when the Wendigo host was transformed back into a human, while Werewolf of the Night watched on he (the host) commented that he was immortal not just the spirit.

Shaman should have some idea of this, as he's a magical expert. The others not so much. It's incredibly tough, sure, and regenerative, but neither that nor immortal (if it means he doesn't age) is automatically the same as unkillable.




Well, as you can see, there's Talisman (which I handed in a week or so back). I'm fairly sure there are other Alphans pencilled in for the rest of the year.

Oh Excellent you did her entry, anything interesting you can reveal for us? 8)

Sorry, afraid not. :P

[darc_light]

I know this doesn't relly fit here, but Pink Pearl has a bio at Marvunapp now.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/pinkpearlaf.htm
and there is now a list of Alpha Flight chars on the site
http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalphaflight.htm

[-K-M-]

Well She Hulk #16 pretty much proved my point the mortal form of Wendigo can't be killed. He had a HUGE hole in him and his heart cut out and was fine in hours.

[DelBubs]

Well She Hulk #16 pretty much proved my point the mortal form of Wendigo can't be killed. He had a HUGE hole in him and his heart cut out and was fine in hours.

Probably takes steroids.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Well She Hulk #16 pretty much proved my point the mortal form of Wendigo can't be killed. He had a HUGE hole in him and his heart cut out and was fine in hours.

Probably takes steroids.

Hmmmm...That could be a contradiction of the Wolverine story(Guest-starring Alpha Flight) involving the Wendigo and Jean Pierre Mauvais, Who killed the Wendigo by ripping it's heart out (then devouring it to become the Wendigo, which also is a bit contrary to Marvel's Wendigo legend). Although, that particular Wendigo could have regenerated after the event and rose from the dead too...Who knows?

Dana

[-K-M-]

I didn't take the Mauvais one to serious as Mauvais cut off the Gods of the Arctic connection to the world and Wendigo is one of their creations. So he mostly likely got weaker just like Snowbird was without it.

[-K-M-]

Shaman is getting an entry in the new update released in july.
====
ALL-NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z: UPDATE #3
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, STUART VANDAL, SEAN MCQUAID, MICHAEL HOSKIN, ERIC J. MOREELS, AL SJOERDSMA, CHAD ANDERSON, RONALD BYRD, ANTHONY FLAMINI, STEVEN FAULKNER, MADISON CARTER, CHRIS BIGGS, DAVID WILTFONG
Cover by AARON LOPRESTI
Do you think Death Metal is just a kind of music? Do you think the Zodiac Key belongs in your car's ignition? Did someone tell you that the Acts of Vengeance was a book in the Bible? Clear up your misconceptions with the latest OFFICIAL HANDBOOK! Featuring new characters who have never been covered before (Cobra, Crusader, Sabreclaw of MC2), characters from past editions receiving their first 21st-century entries (Batroc, Deathbird, Kid Colt, Klaw) and older characters who have never been covered at all ranging from the overlooked (Chrome of the New Universe, Gods of Mesopotamia, Masked Marauder) to the completely obscure (Geometer, Huntsman)! Plus, a major 5-page spotlight on the avenging son himself, Namor the Sub-Mariner! And don't forget Juggernaut, Shaman, And much, much more!
64 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

[maniac mike]

Hey all, just to let you know, I picked up the ALL-NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z: UPDATE #2 and WYRE had a half page entry in it.

MM :!:

[-K-M-]

Well that's suprizing, any new info? and what was his stats like?

[maniac mike]

Well that's suprizing, any new info? and what was his stats like?

Height: 5'11' Eyes: Brown
Weight: 198 lbs. Hair: Brown

Abilities/Accessories: Wyre has enhanced strength, speed, senses, healing, agility, endurance, and reflexes. His synthetic wires are attached to his central nervous system and can extend from his shoulder region several feet in length, restraining, holding, or skewering targets with their sharp points; he also has razor-sharp claws. Wyre is a master warrior, assassin, and tracker. He has used various firearms.

Intelligence: 3
Strength: 4
Speed: 3
Durability: 4
Energy Projection: 1
Fighting Skills: 6

Its says his current whereabouts are unrevealed, following Alpha Flight's disbanding.

[-K-M-]

Interesting stuff thanks

Oh yeah I added your Cascade request to the Alphanex.

[maniac mike]

Interesting stuff thanks

Oh yeah I added your Cascade request to the Alphanex.

Thanks Mungi! :D

[rplass]

Was Wyre a member of Alpha Flight? I know he appeared in a few issues, but was he a member? If not, what was his status relative to the team(s)?

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

Was Wyre a member of Alpha Flight? I know he appeared in a few issues, but was he a member? If not, what was his status relative to the team(s)?

Love,
rplass

It says his Group Affiliations are, "Formerly Alpha Flight, Secret Empire, Breed."

MM :-k

[rplass]

Yeah, I saw that word, "affiliation".... does that mean he was a member?

Love,
rplass

[DelBubs]

To my knowledge Wyre was never an official member, he had pretty much the same status as Jocasta and Marrina did with the Avengers.

[-K-M-]

ALL-NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z: UPDATE #4
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN & VARIOUS
Cover by AARON LOPRESTI
What were the Red Skull and Dr. Faustus' involvement in Captain America's death? Who is Revanche, and why is Psylocke wearing her body? Ever wonder how far Captain Marvel's legacy spans across the Marvel Universe? Who was Captain America during the Revolutionary War? Think the Siege Perilous was only used on the X-Men? What's the real deal with the Negative Zone? Featuring updates on Nitro, Spymaster, Starhawk, Supreme Intelligence and others; new characters like Arabian Knight and Omega Flight; and old favorites and obscure-os like Clan Destine, the New Universe's Chrome/Spitfire and more!
64 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

[maniac mike]

Just got "ALL NEW Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: A-Z Update" #3 today and Shaman and Flex both have an entry in it.

Also, Death Metal has an entry with his run-in with AF too.

MM :wink:

[-K-M-]

I'll be picking it up this weekend, anything interesting about Flex?

Edit: What was Juggernaut and Namor's strength listed at?

[maniac mike]

I'll be picking it up this weekend, anything interesting about Flex?

Edit: What was Juggernaut and Namor's strength listed at?

1. Just that he was depowered by the Scarlet Witch during HoM. His entry was only a half page.

2. Juggernaut's and Namor's strengths are both rated at 6 of 7, but Juggies durability is a 7 and Namor is a 6.

MM

[-K-M-]

He was depowered? bah! he wasn't listed as depowered before. Damn

Thanks a lot

[cmdrkoenig67]

I noticed that too....I'm guessing TPTB wanted to be rid of all the Vol 2 Newbies, but they apparently forgot Flex when they first made their list.

Dana

[rplass]

ALL-NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z: UPDATE #4
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN & VARIOUS
Cover by AARON LOPRESTI
What were the Red Skull and Dr. Faustus' involvement in Captain America's death? Who is Revanche, and why is Psylocke wearing her body? Ever wonder how far Captain Marvel's legacy spans across the Marvel Universe? Who was Captain America during the Revolutionary War? Think the Siege Perilous was only used on the X-Men? What's the real deal with the Negative Zone? Featuring updates on Nitro, Spymaster, Starhawk, Supreme Intelligence and others; new characters like Arabian Knight and Omega Flight; and old favorites and obscure-os like Clan Destine, the New Universe's Chrome/Spitfire and more!
64 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

OK so it did come out this week. We get a nice 1pg summary of Omega Flight, including a mention of the interview between Walter and Pointer previous to the mini-series. I'm still baffled why it wasn't included in the TPB. No mention of Daisy. Anyway, we also get the Silvestri art group shot and a misspelling of, "Langkowski." Oh, well. They did spell it correctly later on in the text. It assigns Sasquatch and Talisman as current members of Omega Flight, which is good news! I thought they left OF as of issue #5, but apparently they are still members. This is good because the MCP thingy could expand to include them.

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

The entry irked me when they said Guardian saved Sasquatch from suffering a massive beating. Yet Wrecker who was charged with Tanaraq took it to BRB and that wasn't mentioned at all.

[cmdrkoenig67]

At least it had an entry for Omega (inaccurate as it may have been)...I was ecstatic to see an entry for Commander Arcturus Rann (of the Micronauts), after twenty years (who guest-starred in Alpha Flight Vol 2)...Finally! Slayback also had an entry and he has some ties to Canada...Via Deadpool, the Weapon X program, etc...

Dana

[Eric J. Moreels]

OK so it did come out this week. We get a nice 1pg summary of Omega Flight, including a mention of the interview between Walter and Pointer previous to the mini-series. I'm still baffled why it wasn't included in the TPB. No mention of Daisy. Anyway, we also get the Silvestri art group shot and a misspelling of, "Langkowski." Oh, well. They did spell it correctly later on in the text. It assigns Sasquatch and Talisman as current members of Omega Flight, which is good news! I thought they left OF as of issue #5, but apparently they are still members. This is good because the MCP thingy could expand to include them.

Heya gang,

As writer of the Omega Flight entry, I thought I'd drop by and respond to your comments.

First, glad you guys liked the entry! It was tough trying to squeeze OF's story thus far into a single page, but I think (and hope) I did them justice.

Daisy wasn't mentioned as I felt she wasn't crucial to the entry.

"Whoops!" on the misspelling of Walter's name in the members list.

Sasquatch and Talisman are both definitely still members of the team. They've both just taken time off to address personal issues/other commitments.


The entry irked me when they said Guardian saved Sasquatch from suffering a massive beating. Yet Wrecker who was charged with Tanaraq took it to BRB and that wasn't mentioned at all.

The BRB/Wrecker clash wasn't mentioned due to space reasons. There just wasn't enough room to cover every aspect of the OF/WC clash, so I tried to hit the major points of the encounter.


At least it had an entry for Omega (inaccurate as it may have been)...

One typo makes the entry "inaccurate"? If you're referring to other aspects of the mini-series not being mentioned, that's not inaccurate, that's just making the best use of the allocated space.

[-K-M-]

The BRB/Wrecker clash wasn't mentioned due to space reasons. There just wasn't enough room to cover every aspect of the OF/WC clash, so I tried to hit the major points of the encounter.


Thanks for the reply back, always nice when a writer from the handbooks such as Stuart Vandal and now yourself visit as we do appreciate your guys works. Overall it was a fine entry, I liked it the entry just the comment that Guardian saved Sasquatch from a beating irked me as Sasquatch has taken far worse and kept fighting. Also Wrecker who was charged with Tanaraq wrecked BRB pretty bad and Sasquatch..well he is Tanaraq's avatar so don't see why Sasquatch was going to get beat up badly.

Sasquatch just seems to get the short end of the stick in the handbooks as he is listed as class 70, yet he has MANY class 100 feats and has defeated other class 100 characters. Haha, awww..well I could go on a rant but you wouldn't want to hear it.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t465150.html

What other enteries did you complete for this handbook?

[cmdrkoenig67]

One typo makes the entry "inaccurate"? If you're referring to other aspects of the mini-series not being mentioned, that's not inaccurate, that's just making the best use of the allocated space.

Sheeesh! Don't shoot me...I'm just saying that another poster here indicated that it wasn't entirely accurate (my exact quote: "At least it had an entry for Omega inaccurate as it may have been")...I haven't even read the entry yet.

Dana

[Eric J. Moreels]

What other enteries did you complete for this handbook?

For this issue I wrote Omega Flight, Revanche, Ladyfair and Slayback.

[Loki]

Just a few corrections: Puck admited he named himself after a hockey Puck, it was Puck II who named herself after the Shakespeare character. Would make sense if it was Eugene since he often reads it, but vol.3 stated it.

Actually, strictly speaking, it was the Plodex copy of him. Would that copy have a reason to lie over such a minor thing? No, I can't think of one. Could he get it wrong? Yes, in theory. Ever seen the original Star Trek "What are little girls made of?". Someone copies Kirk, but he has enough will power to place a clue, a response which is atypical of the real Kirk and will alert others to this being a fake.

If Alpha Flight vol.1 had confirmed the Shakespeare connection...

Just chiming back in on this one - I've just found the volume 1 reference to Puck choosing his name from Shakespeare's elf again. I knew I had read it when I originally wrote his entry, but it's taken until now for me to find it again - naturally when I wasn't looking for it anymore.

Alpha Flight Annual #1, p.3, panel 2

Madison Jeffries "What're you readin, Puck?"
Judd "A play about my namesake, Mr. Jeffries..Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream"."

While the argument could be made that the namesake comment isn't definitive (eg even if I shared the same name as someone but the sharing was coincidence rather than design, I could still describe that other person as my namesake), it still supports the "named after the elf" over the "named after the hockey equipment" - and it comes from Judd himself, not a doppleganger of same. And it is where I got the information I used in the Handbook entry.

[-K-M-]

For this issue I wrote Omega Flight, Revanche, Ladyfair and Slayback.

Oh nice, I'm digging these handbooks as it's bringing back characters we havn't heard from in awhile


Just chiming back in on this one - I've just found the volume 1 reference to Puck choosing his name from Shakespeare's elf again. I knew I had read it when I originally wrote his entry, but it's taken until now for me to find it again - naturally when I wasn't looking for it anymore.

Alpha Flight Annual #1, p.3, panel 2

Madison Jeffries "What're you readin, Puck?"
Judd "A play about my namesake, Mr. Jeffries..Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream"."

While the argument could be made that the namesake comment isn't definitive (eg even if I shared the same name as someone but the sharing was coincidence rather than design, I could still describe that other person as my namesake), it still supports the "named after the elf" over the "named after the hockey equipment" - and it comes from Judd himself, not a doppleganger of same. And it is where I got the information I used in the Handbook entry.

Good find I had to look back and read it myself and no I agree it makes complete sense if Puck named himself after a Shakespearean character rather then a hockey puck. Puck was indeed a scholar and several times would actually quote Hamlet in battle. I was confused why he would name himself after a "puck"

Oh is the discussion of Sasquatch powergrid still open? :wink:

[Loki]

Oh is the discussion of Sasquatch powergrid still open? :wink:

Yes, it is. Looking back, I forwarded your queries and points on to the team, but we were in the middle of a deadline doom, and there wasn't a full response from the writer - it got lost in the shuffle so to speak. I'll bring it up again, and see what the final verdict is.

[-K-M-]

Yes, it is. Looking back, I forwarded your queries and points on to the team, but we were in the middle of a deadline doom, and there wasn't a full response from the writer - it got lost in the shuffle so to speak. I'll bring it up again, and see what the final verdict is.

:-k Excellent, keep me informed please

[cmdrkoenig67]

For this issue I wrote Omega Flight, Revanche, Ladyfair and Slayback.

Oh nice, I'm digging these handbooks as it's bringing back characters we havn't heard from in awhile


Just chiming back in on this one - I've just found the volume 1 reference to Puck choosing his name from Shakespeare's elf again. I knew I had read it when I originally wrote his entry, but it's taken until now for me to find it again - naturally when I wasn't looking for it anymore.

Alpha Flight Annual #1, p.3, panel 2

Madison Jeffries "What're you readin, Puck?"
Judd "A play about my namesake, Mr. Jeffries..Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream"."

While the argument could be made that the namesake comment isn't definitive (eg even if I shared the same name as someone but the sharing was coincidence rather than design, I could still describe that other person as my namesake), it still supports the "named after the elf" over the "named after the hockey equipment" - and it comes from Judd himself, not a doppleganger of same. And it is where I got the information I used in the Handbook entry.

Good find I had to look back and read it myself and no I agree it makes complete sense if Puck named himself after a Shakespearean character rather then a hockey puck. Puck was indeed a scholar and several times would actually quote Hamlet in battle. I was confused why he would name himself after a "puck"

Um...John Byrne mentioned where he got Puck's name over twenty years ago (Indeed, he named Puck after Shakespeare's ethereal spirit...Not a piece of rubber). He mentioned it yet again in the Alpha Flight, Vol. 1, #5 thread (it's also right there in the flippin' title of the issue!) at his website recently (started by Ryan Maxwell).

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21741

Dana

EDITED to fix my issue number flub.

[Loki]

For this issue I wrote Omega Flight, Revanche, Ladyfair and Slayback.

Oh nice, I'm digging these handbooks as it's bringing back characters we havn't heard from in awhile


Just chiming back in on this one - I've just found the volume 1 reference to Puck choosing his name from Shakespeare's elf again. I knew I had read it when I originally wrote his entry, but it's taken until now for me to find it again - naturally when I wasn't looking for it anymore.

Alpha Flight Annual #1, p.3, panel 2

Madison Jeffries "What're you readin, Puck?"
Judd "A play about my namesake, Mr. Jeffries..Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream"."

While the argument could be made that the namesake comment isn't definitive (eg even if I shared the same name as someone but the sharing was coincidence rather than design, I could still describe that other person as my namesake), it still supports the "named after the elf" over the "named after the hockey equipment" - and it comes from Judd himself, not a doppleganger of same. And it is where I got the information I used in the Handbook entry.

Good find I had to look back and read it myself and no I agree it makes complete sense if Puck named himself after a Shakespearean character rather then a hockey puck. Puck was indeed a scholar and several times would actually quote Hamlet in battle. I was confused why he would name himself after a "puck"

Um...John Byrne mentioned where he got Puck's name over twenty years ago (Indeed, he named Puck after Shakespeare's ethereal spirit...Not a piece of rubber). He mentioned it yet again in the Alpha Flight, Vol. 1, #5 thread (it's also right there in the flippin' title of the issue!) at his website recently (started by Ryan Maxwell).

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21741

Dana

EDITED to fix my issue number flub.

As Byrne himself would point out, a writer's intended backstory means little if not openly used in story and then explicitly contradicted by another story. Look at the final issues of Power Man and Iron Fist - Tyrone King wasn't intended to be Master Khan, Captain Hero wasn't meant to be the Super Skrull, and the Iron Fist who died was intended to be the real Iron Fist (although the original writer, thesedays known as Priest, did have a way to bring him back) - Priest had other plans for all those characters, but when Byrne brought Iron Fist back from the dead, all those unused plans went by the wayside. The title of the issue is a good catch (I freely admit I wasn't paying attention to issue titles when annotating 100+ issues for the Puck entry, so I didn't spot that), and it is a good bit of circumstantial evidence, but it would have been overruled by the volume 3 explicit statement that Judd got the Puck name from the hockey equipment. Even though I prefer the name to be derived from Shakespeare, and I would have been confirming an error on my own part in the Handbook entry, if I hadn't found the reference in the annual from Judd's own mouth, then the hockey derivation would have had precedence.

And the "speed of his namesake" bit in the scanned panels at that link sadly don't lend weight either way to the argument, as both the elf and the hockey equipment could move pretty fast.

However, we now have 3 pieces of evidence for Shakespeare's elf providing the name - 2 circumstantial (Judd is a scholar who often quotes Shakespeare, the title of the Judd-centric story in Alpha Flight #5 which you caught), and one less so (the quote from Annual #1), vs. 1 piece of evidence favouring the hockey equipment (the statement from the faux Judd in Alpha Flight series 3). The elf wins out. And the no-prize explanation for the series 3 comment is my example from Star Trek; the real Judd planting a false memory in the doppelganger to expose it as a fake.

[Barnacle13]

If anything from Alpha Flight V3 is considered canon I think I will scream!!! The V3 quote should be considered nothing more than another feeble attempt to make the story funny! The entire series was a joke, there was little of Alpha Flight in it other than likenesses.

[Loki]

If anything from Alpha Flight V3 is considered canon I think I will scream!!! The V3 quote should be considered nothing more than another feeble attempt to make the story funny! The entire series was a joke, there was little of Alpha Flight in it other than likenesses.

I'm afraid it is canon. Sorry. We don't get to pick and choose only the good bits (otherwise Puck would have always been a dwarf, not a full-sized man who once housed a demon).

[mreeez]

If anything from Alpha Flight V3 is considered canon I think I will scream!!! The V3 quote should be considered nothing more than another feeble attempt to make the story funny! The entire series was a joke, there was little of Alpha Flight in it other than likenesses.

I'm afraid it is canon. Sorry. We don't get to pick and choose only the good bits (otherwise Puck would have always been a dwarf, not a full-sized man who once housed a demon).

Can't we dismiss all the bad stuff by saying that it was just a Skrull at the time?

[Loki]

If anything from Alpha Flight V3 is considered canon I think I will scream!!! The V3 quote should be considered nothing more than another feeble attempt to make the story funny! The entire series was a joke, there was little of Alpha Flight in it other than likenesses.

I'm afraid it is canon. Sorry. We don't get to pick and choose only the good bits (otherwise Puck would have always been a dwarf, not a full-sized man who once housed a demon).

Can't we dismiss all the bad stuff by saying that it was just a Skrull at the time?

It was a Skrull from Earth-A being punched by Superboy as the Scarlet Witch said "no more good plots" :P

[Barnacle13]

Don't get me wrong there were some redeeming qualities in V3, but there weren't many. Major Mapleleaf Jr actually grew on me after awhile with his Dudley Doright style. Centennial was also an intriguing character and I'd have loved to see the Puckette/Puck relationship explored, but the rest was pretty much a joke (intentionally at that).

[Loki]

Just fyi

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=8227

The Handbooks begin a 12 month A-Z Hardcover reprise of consolidating what we have covered to date, with entries from earlier books brought together into one gigantic A-Z run.

"The most exciting and comprehensive Marvel handbook is finally here! Beginning a twelve-volume guide to the Marvel Universe with more than 100 huge entries in each tome! This issue – from 1602 to Blackwulf! Spotlighting people (Angel, Annihilus, Ant-Man, Apocalypse, Arachne, Ares, Aurora, Banshee, Baron Zemo, Beast, Beta Ray Bill, Bishop, Black Bolt, Black Knight, Black Panther, Black Widow), places (Atlantis), teams (AIM, Acolytes, Agents of Atlas, Alpha Flight, Avengers), species (Badoon), alternate realities (2020, 2099, the Age of Apocalypse) and more!"

But this is way more than just a reprint. Every entry is updated so it covers up to the character's latest appearance. Many have been expanded by one or more pages. Data corrections will be made.

Or to put it another way, the combined page count of the hardcovers is several hundred pages longer than the combined page count of the handbooks it incorporates. And as the solicit text above mentions, there's a number of Alpha Flight entries in Volume 1.

[rplass]

Yay! I can see Aurora on the cover :) and I see her name in the solicit text :) .

I'm glad to see Alpha Flight included in this project and I will definitely get it!

Thanks for the good news!

Love,
rplass

[cmdrkoenig67]

Yay!

Dana

[-K-M-]

Just fyi

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=8227

The Handbooks begin a 12 month A-Z Hardcover reprise of consolidating what we have covered to date, with entries from earlier books brought together into one gigantic A-Z run.


Awesome, I really loved how you guys used characters we havn't heard in awhile.

Are we going to see corrections, say for..Sasquatch here? :wink:

[Loki]

Just fyi

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=8227

The Handbooks begin a 12 month A-Z Hardcover reprise of consolidating what we have covered to date, with entries from earlier books brought together into one gigantic A-Z run.


Awesome, I really loved how you guys used characters we havn't heard in awhile.

Are we going to see corrections, say for..Sasquatch here? :wink:

We'll make corrections where we've confirmed stuff in past entries as being wrong or needing updated - can't promise if Sasquatch is one of them, as that one is still under review. Obviously, now is the time to make the case for any and all suggested amendments or corrections to existing entries.

[rplass]

Well, I'd like to get the "nanotech scorpion" thing cleared up. What was that all about? I'm referring to OHOTMU: A-Z #6. The entry for Major Mapleleaf says, "The Collective quickly defeated the team, overwhelming Mapleleaf and Zuzha Yu with a wave of nanotech scorpions."

Unless that's really what happened but I have no idea where you got nanotech scorpions from.

Oh and also the typographical error: Langowksi. Thanks!

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

Oh and also the typographical error: Langowksi. Thanks!

Love,
rplass

and the part saying Guardian saved Sasquatch from a beating from Beta Ray Bill, when earlier a charged Wrecker laid the beat down on Bill

[Eric J. Moreels]

and the part saying Guardian saved Sasquatch from a beating from Beta Ray Bill, when earlier a charged Wrecker laid the beat down on Bill

Well that's not an error, it was an omission for space reasons. If Omega Flight gets an expanded entry, then we can go into more detail with that particular battle. More than likely, though, if it is expanded, then Guardian's story in Marvel Comics Presents gets priority coverage.

[Loki]

Well, I'd like to get the "nanotech scorpion" thing cleared up. What was that all about? I'm referring to OHOTMU: A-Z #6. The entry for Major Mapleleaf says, "The Collective quickly defeated the team, overwhelming Mapleleaf and Zuzha Yu with a wave of nanotech scorpions."

Unless that's really what happened but I have no idea where you got nanotech scorpions from.

The scripts for the issue.


Oh and also the typographical error: Langowksi. Thanks!


That one should get corrected.

[Ahab]

The scripts for the issue.


Sorry, but it still makes no sense to me to make something like that canon. That's like stating that a deleted scene in a movie is considered part of the story, when it clearly was not. Deleted scenes are removed for a reason, many times because the creators decided that it wasn't the best idea to use it.
Including details in the handbook that NEVER HAPPENED IN THE COMIC is unfair to the average reader that has a budget preventing the purchase of the Handbook and/or has no idea that the Handbook adds more details to storylines. Nevermind the fact that I doubt that the next writer and/or editor is going to remember what was stated in the handbook. They have a hard enough time remembering what went on in the actual comic and keeping it in continuity.

[DelBubs]

Is this gonna offer anything new to existing entries?

ALL-NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 1 PREMIERE HC
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, MIKE FICHERA, STUART VANDAL, MARK O'ENGLISH, SEAN MCQUAID, MADISON CARTER, MICHAEL HOSKIN, RONALD BYRD, ERIC J. MOREELS, DAVID WILTFONG, CHAD ANDERSON, ANTHONY FLAMINI, JACOB ROUGEMONT, GABRIEL SHECHTER, RICH GREEN, CHRIS BIGGS, AL SJOERDSMA, DAVID SEXTON, BILL LENTZ, BARRY REESE, JONATHAN COUPER-SMARTT, MIKE RAICHT & STEPHEN FAULKNER.
Cover by TOM GRUMMETT
The most exciting and comprehensive Marvel handbook is finally here! Beginning a twelve-volume guide to the Marvel Universe with more than 100 huge entries in each tome! This issue – from 1602 to Blackwulf! Spotlighting people (Angel, Annihilus, Ant-Man, Apocalypse, Arachne, Ares, Aurora, Banshee, Baron Zemo, Beast, Beta Ray Bill, Bishop, Black Bolt, Black Knight, Black Panther, Black Widow), places (Atlantis), teams (AIM, Acolytes, Agents of Atlas, Alpha Flight, Avengers), species (Badoon), alternate realities (2020, 2099, the Age of Apocalypse) and more!
240 PGS./Rated T+ …$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-3028-4
Trim Sized: Standard

[Loki]

The scripts for the issue.


Sorry, but it still makes no sense to me to make something like that canon. That's like stating that a deleted scene in a movie is considered part of the story, when it clearly was not. Deleted scenes are removed for a reason, many times because the creators decided that it wasn't the best idea to use it.
Including details in the handbook that NEVER HAPPENED IN THE COMIC is unfair to the average reader that has a budget preventing the purchase of the Handbook and/or has no idea that the Handbook adds more details to storylines. Nevermind the fact that I doubt that the next writer and/or editor is going to remember what was stated in the handbook. They have a hard enough time remembering what went on in the actual comic and keeping it in continuity.

I'm afraid we are going to have to disagree here.

By your logic, it would also be unfair if another title than New Avengers (say, Ms. Marvel) had decided to include a flashback to the Alpha Flight battle with the Collective, because you might not have the budget to buy that or might not realise they were providing more details about the battle there? But stuff like that happens all the time in comics - case in point, during the original Ms. Marvel run, she encountered a reptilian race living in the desert, capturing humans who encountered them to prevent their discovery, and convincing them to hypnotise their captives to forget the reptiles' existence so the captives could be safely released. However a few years later, an issue of Rom revealed the previously unknown information that an alien shapeshifter had been amongst the captives, and was unaffected by the hypnosis. By your arguement, the writer should not have done this.

The handbooks have always been able to clarify, expand on, or even add brand new information (all with case-by-case editorial approval). It's part of their remit. And yes, there is a risk that future editors or writers won't remember to check the handbooks, but then, as you noted, they may well not even bother checking the actual comic either. Those writers who care about continuity generally will check handbooks, if only to see if there have been appearances of whichever character they didn't know about; a large chunk of why handbooks are there is to summarise all the relevant character information in one easy to reference spot. Those writers who don't care about continuity, well, it won't matter if the details are in a handbook or a comic.

[Loki]

Is this gonna offer anything new to existing entries?


Yes. Existing entries are all going to be updated and in many cases expanded, and there will also be many cases where additional art is added.

[-K-M-]

Are we going to see a class 100 Sasquatch entry? :wink:

[Flightpath07]

Loki,

Just a shout-out to you and your crew.

Keep up the good work.

Flightpath07

[Ahab]

I'm afraid we are going to have to disagree here.

By your logic, it would also be unfair if another title than New Avengers (say, Ms. Marvel) had decided to include a flashback to the Alpha Flight battle with the Collective, because you might not have the budget to buy that or might not realise they were providing more details about the battle there? But stuff like that happens all the time in comics - By your arguement, the writer should not have done this.

The handbooks have always been able to clarify, expand on, or even add brand new information (all with case-by-case editorial approval). It's part of their remit.

I'm ok with agreeing to disagree. And I'm ok with stories continuing or clarifications being made in other books. What I'm not ok with is story gaps being filled in an "encyclopedia", instead of a normal comic. Funny thing about the handbooks - I have never seen them advertising that they are adding brand new information to character histories. That's not to say that it hasn't been advertised. I just don't recall seeing it. I would think that it would be highlighted often as a huge selling point.

[Mokole]

Thanks for all the positive talk, Loki and all. :wink:

[Loki]

I'm afraid we are going to have to disagree here.

By your logic, it would also be unfair if another title than New Avengers (say, Ms. Marvel) had decided to include a flashback to the Alpha Flight battle with the Collective, because you might not have the budget to buy that or might not realise they were providing more details about the battle there? But stuff like that happens all the time in comics - By your arguement, the writer should not have done this.

The handbooks have always been able to clarify, expand on, or even add brand new information (all with case-by-case editorial approval). It's part of their remit.

I'm ok with agreeing to disagree. And I'm ok with stories continuing or clarifications being made in other books. What I'm not ok with is story gaps being filled in an "encyclopedia", instead of a normal comic.

As I noted though, if you are okay with the continuation or clarification in other books, then why not the handbooks? Your argument against it being there was based on either not being able to afford the handbooks, or not realising the extra info was there, both of which can easily hold true for any comic. If that's not the source of your problem, but instead that you view the handbooks as an "encyclopedia" which cannot provide new info, then I am afraid you are wrong in that belief. That's always been part of our remit. We are 95% resource, and 5% source, and have filled in gaps from day one, right back in the original 1980s Handbooks. We figure heights and weights, origin details often used to get added in (we tend to do that less now, but still sometimes do add in such info if provided by the original writer - for example, Christos Gage supplied background info on the new Arabian Knight which turned up in his handbook entry), and we can also bridge the gaps between appearances on occasion. We never do it casually, and it all has to be editorially approved - for example, we supplied the explanation for where the new Sunpyre came from and how Humbug survived being fed to fire ants, both cases using information provided by the writers handling the characters - but if those writers or editorial had felt they wanted to save that info for a later story to tell, then we would have simply said something like "Under unrevealed circumstances, Humbug survived." In other words, we don't fill in the blanks if someone else intends to do it in-story.


Funny thing about the handbooks - I have never seen them advertising that they are adding brand new information to character histories. That's not to say that it hasn't been advertised. I just don't recall seeing it. I would think that it would be highlighted often as a huge selling point.

It's not generally in the solicits, no, but it has been advertised in the handbooks themselves, again as far back as the original series. Here's a quote from Mark Gruenwald, taken from one of the Deluxe Handbook prefaces
"look at the various gaps in the data, be it a never-disclosed real name or an unrecorded episode describing how an entry-subject got from point A to point B where we see it next. We then solicit original material... We are proud to have certain information appear here in the Handbook for the first time anywhere."


Are we going to see a class 100 Sasquatch entry?
Can't promise it, but we are reviewing all power grids and strength levels as part of the update.

And thanks to everyone for the positive words. We're working hard to make sure this is one of the best Handbook projects ever!

[Legerd]

And thanks to everyone for the positive words. We're working hard to make sure this is one of the best Handbook projects ever!

Thanks for dropping in and sharing! It's a nice window into how Marvel handles the characters, etc. Take care.

[-K-M-]

Can't promise it, but we are reviewing all power grids and strength levels as part of the update.

And thanks to everyone for the positive words. We're working hard to make sure this is one of the best Handbook projects ever!

Haha yeah I know, just mostly wishful thinking

Also how many hardcovers/paperback are there going to be in total?

Well thank you for stopping by and giving us your input, it's much appreciated.

[Loki]

Also how many hardcovers/paperback are there going to be in total?

12, each 240 pages long, the same size as the various Marvel produced Marvel Encyclopedia (Marvel, X-Men, Spider-Man, Marvel Knights and FF, but not Hulk, which isn't really an encyclopedia). To give you another size comparison, the DK Marvel Encyclopedia was 352 pages; larger than any single volume in this series, but our combined output will be the equivalent of more than 8 times that.


Well thank you for stopping by and giving us your input, it's much appreciated.

Likewise, thanks for both your feedback and support.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Thank you Loki for dropping in and for the updates (and all your work). I appreciate it, considering the only Marvel comics I really buy anymore are the Handbooks.

Best.

Dana

[Loki]

A bit of shameless self-promotion - the new A-Z Handbook Premiere Hardcover comes out this week. Various revised, revamped and updated entries relevant for Alpha fans, including the Flight themselves; I think I can get away with telling you that entry is one of the ones that received an expansion, covers all the team's incarnations in greater depth, and includes a few pieces of info even the most knowledgeable Alpha Flight fan won't already know.

[varo]

hmmmmm....

would that include their current whereabouts and possible future?

[rplass]

I'm definitely going to get this now! Thanks for the update!

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

hmmmmm....

would that include their current whereabouts and possible future?

Sadly not.

[-K-M-]

So I guess we will see an entry for Aurora, and Alpha Flight? Or is there more?

Anyways I'm getting it I love the handbook series, I just hope we get to see a Sasquatch power update :wink:

[-K-M-]

Anyone pick it up? My comic store was sold out so I didn't get a copy.

[rplass]

My LCS said it didn't come in, and wasn't on the list for next week, either.
Maybe they are still spell-checking it.

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

My LCS said it didn't come in, and wasn't on the list for next week, either.
Maybe they are still spell-checking it.

Love,
rplass

No, it came out this week.

[rplass]

So you deny that they spell-checked it! I knew it!

heh

Well, I'll try some other stores. Maybe my guy got it wrong.

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Ok found it at another store, np. And you were right about the "few pieces of info even the most knowledgeable Alpha Flight fan won't already know." Aurora has an entry, too and you can see Marrina in the Avengers' entry and a new image of AF from vol 3. with Mar photoshopped in the middle.

SPOILER SPACE














SPOILER SPACE











I'm saddened by the news but also happy that the big question is finally answered: The temporal copies are gone, no explanation, just gone, and the Alphans who we weren't sure if they were the temporal copies or not that were killed by Bendis (Mac, Heather, Puck and Shaman) were in fact not temporal copies, but the real Alphans recently returned from their Plodex adventure.

Very interesting, and finally Lobdell's confusing ending is wrapped up. Unfortunately, it also means that Alpha Flight is dead. Damn nano-scorpions!

Also, they spelled, "Langkowski" correctly! yay!

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

Ok found it at another store, np. And you were right about the "few pieces of info even the most knowledgeable Alpha Flight fan won't already know." Aurora has an entry, too and you can see Marrina in the Avengers' entry and a new image of AF from vol 3. with Mar photoshopped in the middle.

I did my level best to make sure that if this might be the last Alpha Flight entry for a while, then it should cover every member of the team in all its incarnations, including the trainee teams.


SPOILER SPACE














SPOILER SPACE











I'm saddened by the news but also happy that the big question is finally answered: The temporal copies are gone, no explanation, just gone, and the Alphans who we weren't sure if they were the temporal copies or not that were killed by Bendis (Mac, Heather, Puck and Shaman) were in fact not temporal copies, but the real Alphans recently returned from their Plodex adventure.

Weeeell, there's a few "apparently"s in there to provide wiggle room in case a future writer decides to say otherwise, but for the moment, the entry as written is the official line, and the copies seemed to have vanished before the Collective incident.


Very interesting, and finally Lobdell's confusing ending is wrapped up. Unfortunately, it also means that Alpha Flight is dead. Damn nano-scorpions!

Yes, Alpha Flight is dead, joining that long line of characters who have died and stayed dead, such as Bucky and Captain Marvel. Oh, wait...


Also, they spelled, "Langkowski" correctly! yay!

We do try to fix our mistakes.

:wink:

[-K-M-]

My handbook is still on order :(, but I'm definetly glad the temporal copy mess is finally over and we have gotten a better understanding of who died and who didn't. Thanks Stuart.

[Loki]

My handbook is still on order :(, but I'm definetly glad the temporal copy mess is finally over and we have gotten a better understanding of who died and who didn't. Thanks Stuart.

No problem. Though I should point out that when I said the entry included a "few pieces of info even the most knowledgeable Alpha Flight fan won't already know." I wasn't referring to the clarification about the temporal copies. 8)

[PWalk]

I'm going to have to pick this up now. I can't imagine the task you had trying to tie this whole mess of a team up.

[-K-M-]

No problem. Though I should point out that when I said the entry included a "few pieces of info even the most knowledgeable Alpha Flight fan won't already know." I wasn't referring to the clarification about the temporal copies. 8)

Dun dun dunnn...I wonder what it is?

[Flightpath07]

No problem. Though I should point out that when I said the entry included a "few pieces of info even the most knowledgeable Alpha Flight fan won't already know." I wasn't referring to the clarification about the temporal copies. 8)

Dun dun dunnn...I wonder what it is?

Just a guess...got anything to do with Skrulls and the Skrull invasion? Remember, Marvel did say that a Skrull had invaded every super-team on the planet...

[PWalk]

I will personally drive to NYC to kick someone's ass if they try making Langkowski a skrull.

[Flightpath07]

I will personally drive to NYC to kick someone's ass if they try making Langkowski a skrull.

Shotgun!
:twisted:

[Loki]

I will personally drive to NYC to kick someone's ass if they try making Langkowski a skrull.

Uh-uh, no Skrull revelations in the entry either. Nothing quite so exciting.

[-K-M-]

Well since no one has brought it up, I will. Scott has actually provided names for some of the obscure characters which were never fully revealed

Ghost Girl- Lili Stephens
Stitch- Jodi Furman
Flinch- Toby Wood
Ouija- Bill Astin
Gobyln- Gobyln Dean

Pretty interesting

[cmdrkoenig67]

Well...We already knew what Goblyn's last name was.

Dana

[-K-M-]

Yeah I know, but it just wasn't official.

[HappyCanuck]

Yeah I know, but it just wasn't official.

Actually, her last name was official. She is the biological child of the Deans, thus her last name was official. It's her first name that's always been in question. ANd now, it's apparent that they (TPTB) have decided that, since she's only gone by one name ("Goblyn") her whole life, that that should remain her real name.

[Loki]

Yeah I know, but it just wasn't official.

Actually, her last name was official. She is the biological child of the Deans, thus her last name was official. It's her first name that's always been in question. ANd now, it's apparent that they (TPTB) have decided that, since she's only gone by one name ("Goblyn") her whole life, that that should remain her real name.

Her parents didn't know she was alive, so they never named her. Her sister called her Goblyn, effectively making that her given name. Since she has no other name, it's not a huge stretch to presume she got entered under the name Goblyn Dean in Alpha's official files as well.

[Legerd]

Yeah I know, but it just wasn't official.

Actually, her last name was official. She is the biological child of the Deans, thus her last name was official. It's her first name that's always been in question. ANd now, it's apparent that they (TPTB) have decided that, since she's only gone by one name ("Goblyn") her whole life, that that should remain her real name.

Her parents didn't know she was alive, so they never named her. Her sister called her Goblyn, effectively making that her given name. Since she has no other name, it's not a huge stretch to presume she got entered under the name Goblyn Dean in Alpha's official files as well.

So she's no longer the freaky-looking Cher of the Marvel U?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Yeah I know, but it just wasn't official.

Actually, her last name was official. She is the biological child of the Deans, thus her last name was official. It's her first name that's always been in question. ANd now, it's apparent that they (TPTB) have decided that, since she's only gone by one name ("Goblyn") her whole life, that that should remain her real name.

Her parents didn't know she was alive, so they never named her. Her sister called her Goblyn, effectively making that her given name. Since she has no other name, it's not a huge stretch to presume she got entered under the name Goblyn Dean in Alpha's official files as well.

So she's no longer the freaky-looking Cher of the Marvel U?

LOL! Hey...Maybe they can nickname her Lyn (Laura and Lyn Dean)?

[Legerd]

That's not bad! I like it. :D

[Loki]

Yeah I know, but it just wasn't official.

Actually, her last name was official. She is the biological child of the Deans, thus her last name was official. It's her first name that's always been in question. ANd now, it's apparent that they (TPTB) have decided that, since she's only gone by one name ("Goblyn") her whole life, that that should remain her real name.

Her parents didn't know she was alive, so they never named her. Her sister called her Goblyn, effectively making that her given name. Since she has no other name, it's not a huge stretch to presume she got entered under the name Goblyn Dean in Alpha's official files as well.

So she's no longer the freaky-looking Cher of the Marvel U?

LOL! Hey...Maybe they can nickname her Lyn (Laura and Lyn Dean)?

I think that'd be really cool. If anyone actually gets round to using the Dean twins again. It'd be nice to see the rest of the gang. Unfortunately, for the comment about needing to use Americans on Omega Flight because of the lack of native Canadian heroes to make sense, we'd have to presume most of the mutant members of Beta and Gamma Flights got depowered during M-Day. Hopefully whichever character said Canada didn't have enough home grown heroes was in error, and Goblyn and co. are all just on holiday somewhere. I reckon there should be enough native heroes to form a 13 province/territory initiative (Alpha through Mu Flight?), maybe with Omega remaining around as the rapid response reinforcements for major threats. But that's a whole other thread...

[maniac mike]

Joe Q was asked about "International" teams and he brought up Alpha/Omega Flight...


Joe!

Do other countries have their own super-hero teams? We know that there are people with powers from other countries because they always end up in our American hero teams. I mean there's gotta be villains in other countries right? Wouldn't other countries want their own "Avengers" team? Does S.H.I.E.L.D just deal with the United States?

JQ- Chris, of course other countries have super heroes. We've seen some of the other heroes and teams that are active worldwide, including Alpha/Omega Flight in Canada, the Winter Guard in Russia, MI:13 in the UK (along with the more covert ClanDestine), and Big Hero 6 in Japan. Invincible Iron Man 2 introduces the Triumph Division, the super-team of Manila, in just a few short weeks. And S.H.I.E.L.D. is an international organization, so they operate on a global scale, though they're mostly funded and staffed at the executive level by Americans.

By the way, since I mentioned them, Big Hero 6, the top heroes of Japan, are about to come back with their own miniseries by Chris Claremont and David Nakayama. David's been hard at work redesigning the returning characters, as well as two new members to fill out the team's ranks.



http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=92159514&blogID=395144551

MM

[varo]

thought it was interesting that he said "alpha/omega" rather than just omega.

[-K-M-]

A big Hero 6 mini?...Sweet

[cmdrkoenig67]

Yeah...A Big Hero Six mini and Alpha/Omega get nothing.

Dana :(

[Flightpath07]

Yeah...A Big Hero Six mini and Alpha/Omega get nothing.

Dana :(

YUeah, I know what you mean. I fel like I have just been manga-slapped!

[rplass]

I didn't pick up issue #2 of the Hardcover A-Z series yet... are there any Alpha Flight entries?

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Yar, no one seems to know about issue #2. I have it on order just in case. I do see Guardian on the cover of issue#4, that's nice!

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 4 PREMIERE
The Story: Continuing the most exciting and comprehensive Marvel Handbook ever assembled! This twelve-volume guide to the Marvel Universe features more than 100 huge entries in each tome! This issue – from the Elf with a Gun to Guardians of the Galaxy! Spotlighting people (Eternity, Exodus, Falcon, Fin Fang Foom, Emma Frost, Nick Fury, Galactus, Gambit, two Ghost Riders, Gravity, Guardian), places (Genosha), teams (Excalibur, Exiles, Fantastic Four, Frightful Four, Generation X, the Great Lakes Initiative, the Hand), species (Eternals) and more!
Rated T+ …$24.99

Love,
rplass

[HappyCanuck]

Yar, no one seems to know about issue #2. I have it on order just in case. I do see Guardian on the cover of issue#4, that's nice!

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 4 PREMIERE
The Story: Continuing the most exciting and comprehensive Marvel Handbook ever assembled! This twelve-volume guide to the Marvel Universe features more than 100 huge entries in each tome! This issue – from the Elf with a Gun to Guardians of the Galaxy! Spotlighting people (Eternity, Exodus, Falcon, Fin Fang Foom, Emma Frost, Nick Fury, Galactus, Gambit, two Ghost Riders, Gravity, Guardian), places (Genosha), teams (Excalibur, Exiles, Fantastic Four, Frightful Four, Generation X, the Great Lakes Initiative, the Hand), species (Eternals) and more!
Rated T+ …$24.99

Love,
rplass

What, no Great Beasts in either the "teams" or "species" headings?? Now I'm offended!! :wink:

[Loki]

Yar, no one seems to know about issue #2. I have it on order just in case. I do see Guardian on the cover of issue#4, that's nice!

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 4 PREMIERE
The Story: Continuing the most exciting and comprehensive Marvel Handbook ever assembled! This twelve-volume guide to the Marvel Universe features more than 100 huge entries in each tome! This issue – from the Elf with a Gun to Guardians of the Galaxy! Spotlighting people (Eternity, Exodus, Falcon, Fin Fang Foom, Emma Frost, Nick Fury, Galactus, Gambit, two Ghost Riders, Gravity, Guardian), places (Genosha), teams (Excalibur, Exiles, Fantastic Four, Frightful Four, Generation X, the Great Lakes Initiative, the Hand), species (Eternals) and more!
Rated T+ …$24.99

Love,
rplass

What, no Great Beasts in either the "teams" or "species" headings?? Now I'm offended!! :wink:

Actually, the Great Beasts will get a nod in the next volume, though I'm probably not allowed to say in which entry just yet. :P

[varo]

now whats that supposed to mean?

[Flightpath07]

now whats that supposed to mean?

It means, Loki knows something.
Something that we will probably be interested in.
How interested? Only time will tell.

[-K-M-]

Actually, the Great Beasts will get a nod in the next volume, though I'm probably not allowed to say in which entry just yet. :P

YES! I love to see a Great Beast entry, but I assume no power rating?

Scott...you're awesome :wink:

[Mokole]

Thanks for all the hints and heads-up, Loki, Always welcome!

[rplass]

Actually, the Great Beasts will get a nod in the next volume, though I'm probably not allowed to say in which entry just yet. :P

When you say, "next volume", which numbered volume do you mean? 3 or 5?

Haha, I'm trying to guess what's going on.

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

Actually, the Great Beasts will get a nod in the next volume, though I'm probably not allowed to say in which entry just yet. :P

When you say, "next volume", which numbered volume do you mean? 3 or 5?

Haha, I'm trying to guess what's going on.

Love,
rplass

Vol 3

[Flightpath07]

Haha, I'm trying to guess what's going on.

Have you got a lead on something?

[rplass]

How the Great Beasts are going to work in, I have no idea. It looks to be alphabetically between "Crimson Dynamo" and "Elements of Doom". Richard Easton? He's in that range, alphabetically. I doubt he'd get an entry, though. Earthmover is in that range too. Those are my guesses for now. I have vol 3 on order anyway.

BTW, Sasquatch makes an appearance in Volume 2 of this series in the Contest of Champions entry. Wow, it's been 26 years since that series came out. Glad I picked it up!

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Ok I just saw a listing of entries for volume 3, and I still can't find where the Great Beasts fit in. :?:

Centennial and Diamond Lil have entries, and the Alpha Flight-related entries (Deadly Earnest and Crystar) from the 80s Legacy Handbook are reprinted. I will get it this weekend and scour it for Great Beastlies.

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

Ok I just saw a listing of entries for volume 3, and I still can't find where the Great Beasts fit in

They have them listed in the "Demons" section. :wink:

[rplass]

Ok finally, I got v3. Here is a listing of AF appearances:

Centennial
Crystar (Puck, Northstar and Shaman appear)
Deadly Ernest (Puck appears)
Demons (all 7 Great Beasts, plus headshots of the Dream Queen and Zilla Char)
Desert Sword (Raazer)
Diamond Lil
Earth X (Guardian and Sasquatch appear)

An impressive showing this issue for Alpha Flight. I'm especially impressed that the Great Beasts got such nice illustrations given the overwhelming number of Demons named in that entry. Good job writers, identifying Tanaraq's 1st appearance as UXM #120.

Earthmover is skipped alphabetically but is sure to be included in v4 as a half-page entry.

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Earthmover is skipped alphabetically but is sure to be included in v4 as a half-page entry.

Yup, with a slightly better picture.

Seeing as how v5 is coming out tomorrow, I really ought to mention who was in v4!

Earthmover - 1/2pg entry
Flex - 1/2pg entry
Guardian (Mac) - 3pg entry and appears on the cover
and in the Exiles group entry, alt. Heather Hudson and alt. Sasquatch are in a few pictures.

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

I would like to know why they passed up Flashback? He could have at least had a half page entry.

[rplass]

Probably because they already included him, in passing, in the Alpha Flight entry from volume 1 of this series. It is also entirely possible that Omega Flight will get an entry, which should include the other two incarnations of the group, giving him two group entries. Otherwise, he's just too minor of a character to have his own entry, I think. Try asking the writers over at the official thread at comixfan.com. (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=375) if you want the official story!

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

Yesterday I got the OHOTMU vol. 5 hardcover and they had an entry for the Inua(Northern Gods) with its members Hodiak, Negafok, Nelvanna, Sedna, Snowbird[Narya] & Turoq.

[rplass]

The really cool part about the Inua page is that it's one of the very, very few NEW entries in the HC handbooks. Nearly 100% of the entries are reprinted from previous handbooks, expanded or updated, reorganized, but there are hardly any new entries at all, so I think it's quite impressive! Since the Great Beasts were nicely shown in vol.3, it's only fitting to show the good guys, too!

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

The Great Beasts had an entry? I got to pick that up?

[rplass]

The Great Beasts had an entry? I got to pick that up?

They didn't have their own entry. They were mentioned in the giant 9-pg expanded entry (!) for "Demons" in v3 and had two illustrations. There weren't many illustrations, so we got lucky on that.

And what do you mean, "got to pick that up?" You should already have it, you are falling behind! heh

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

Heh! I have that issue, I thought they got an entry like say Spider-Man gets talking about his powers and what not.

Maybe one day :?
---
How big was the Northern Gods entry?

[maniac mike]

How big was the Northern Gods entry?

They had a full page with pics of Hodiak, Nelvanna, Sedna, Turoq, and Narya.

[rplass]

Yeah, the Narya pic was from her recent appearance in Incredible Hercules.

There was also a headshot of Sasquatch in the Howling Commandos entry, and a full-page entry for alt-Sasquatch from Exiles.

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Volume 6 is out, and we have a Madison Jeffries entry and the Llan entry from the Mystic Arcana handbook.

So far Alpha Flight appears in all 6 volumes!

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

Volume 6 is out, and we have a Madison Jeffries entry and the Llan entry from the Mystic Arcana handbook.

So far Alpha Flight appears in all 6 volumes!

Love,
rplass

Alpha will make it into all the volumes, because there's pretty much at least one pre-existing Alpha related entry needing the hardcover update treatment for each letter of the Alphabet (bar Q, X and Z, none of which will fill an entire 240 page volume). M - Master of the World and Marrina. N - Northstar. O - Omega Flight. P - Puck (both of them). R - Radius. S - Snowbird, Shaman, Sasquatch. T - Talisman. U - USAgent (yeah, I know that's a stretch), V - Vindicator, W - Windshear, Y - Yukon Jack.

[maniac mike]

Volume 6 is out, and we have a Madison Jeffries entry and the Llan entry from the Mystic Arcana handbook.

So far Alpha Flight appears in all 6 volumes!

Love,
rplass

You forgot to add "Awful Flight" (Trinket, Aroma, Hockeypuck, Snow-Youse & Summersquash) from the Larval Earth (Spider-Ham) too.

[rplass]

Oooh, Northstar made it to the cover of volume 8! Awesome:

link to image at Marvel.com (http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/lib/view2.htm?filename=/comics/onsale/covers/0509/ATOZHB_V8_MPHC_COV_col.jpg)

I keep the dust jackets in a separate box while I read the hardcovers, and so they get their own bag and board. I really try to keep these covers intact!

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

Just got Vol. 7 yesterday and it had Major Mapleleaf (Sadler Jr.), Master of the World & Mauvais, but for some strange reason Marrina wasn't in it?

Hopefully Loki can let us know what happened.

[rplass]

I wasn't expecting an entry for Marrina. She hasn't been covered in recent handbooks, and it wasn't likely for her to get a new entry...

She really should have had an entry in a previous incarnation in this series, IMHO, but considering she's been AWOL for so long, with no change, I can sort of understand this omission.

In the Plodex entry, expect to see Marrina and Mar at least in the illustrations, as they were shown in issue #8 of the A-Z series.

I can't explain why Loki listed her for this issue, except maybe he was looking at an alphabetical list somewhere and forgot that Marrina hasn't had an entry recently to be included in the HC book.

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

Where the Major Mapleleaf (Sadler Jr.), Master of the World & Mauvais entries any different then the previous ones?

[Loki]

I can't explain why Loki listed her for this issue, except maybe he was looking at an alphabetical list somewhere and forgot that Marrina hasn't had an entry recently to be included in the HC book.

Love,
rplass
On Marrina, that's exactly what happened. Apologies, I had it in my head that we'd covered her back in the 2004 books, in either the Book of the Dead or Women of Marvel.

[Loki]

Where the Major Mapleleaf (Sadler Jr.), Master of the World & Mauvais entries any different then the previous ones?

All have varying degrees of updates / modifications. Major M was fairly slight tweaking, some text alterations and additional images. Mauvais ditto. Master of the World had some heavier text amendments. Since none of them have reappeared since their last Handbook entries, there wasn't much new to add, so it was more improving on the prior coverage.

[rplass]

On Marrina, that's exactly what happened. Apologies, I had it in my head that we'd covered her back in the 2004 books, in either the Book of the Dead or Women of Marvel.

WTF? Book of the Dead? Now why would she be covered in such a book... I thought it was established that she was sleeping a false death beneath the waves. Tie that with the image from Avengers v3 #47 of her floating in the tank... is she dead or what?

http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/ave347.jpg
Proof that she's alive. Bubbles!

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

On Marrina, that's exactly what happened. Apologies, I had it in my head that we'd covered her back in the 2004 books, in either the Book of the Dead or Women of Marvel.

WTF? Book of the Dead? Now why would she be covered in such a book... I thought it was established that she was sleeping a false death beneath the waves. Tie that with the image from Avengers v3 #47 of her floating in the tank... is she dead or what?

http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/ave347.jpg
Proof that she's alive. Bubbles!

Love,
rplass

I know she is alive - but then so are half the members of each and every past Book of the Dead. If you check the Master of the World's revised text (revisions I made), you'll see it mentions that she is alive a couple of times.

[-K-M-]

All have varying degrees of updates / modifications. Major M was fairly slight tweaking, some text alterations and additional images. Mauvais ditto. Master of the World had some heavier text amendments. Since none of them have reappeared since their last Handbook entries, there wasn't much new to add, so it was more improving on the prior coverage.

Cool, thanks.

[Loki]

Btw, I notice no one seems to have yet updated Bedlam the Brain-Blast's entry on Alphanex. Or did nobody notice his real name was given back in the first hardcover?

[Flightpath07]

Btw, I notice no one seems to have yet updated Bedlam the Brain-Blast's entry on Alphanex. Or did nobody notice his real name was given back in the first hardcover?


The place is falling apart, i tell you! It's bedlam, sheer bedlam! :lol:

[-K-M-]

Btw, I notice no one seems to have yet updated Bedlam the Brain-Blast's entry on Alphanex. Or did nobody notice his real name was given back in the first hardcover?

It's usually me who does it, but I've been lazy as of late. :?

[Flightpath07]

Don't feel bad, KM. I had four days off work, and i spent them in front of the computer and the DVD player. Can't say i accomplished anything of real worth...

[Loki]

Btw, I notice no one seems to have yet updated Bedlam the Brain-Blast's entry on Alphanex. Or did nobody notice his real name was given back in the first hardcover?

It's usually me who does it, but I've been lazy as of late. :?

Not meaning to chastise. I just wondered if it had slipped past the normally eagle-eyed readers here.

[rplass]

OK Issue #7 of the HC is out.

Major Mapleleaf Jr has an entry, but watch for the nanotech scorpions... yeah, I'm just still, uh, no. Anyway, we already covered that topic.

Also, you can see Zombie Guardian in the entry for Marvel Zombies.

The Master has an entry, too.

The recent events in X-Infernus are mentioned briefly in Magik's entry, so Witchfire gets a shout out, no images, but hey, nice touch.

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Oh, I discovered a Puck cameo as well... in Magneto's entry, one of the illustrations is a portion of the cover for Alpha Flight #33:

http://www.alphaflight.net/cover_gallery/af1_33.jpg

with giant Puck behind Magneto. :)

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

Just got vol. 8 yesterday and Nemesis (St. Ives), Northstar, Omega Flight (Jaxon's), Omega Flight (Master's), Omega Flight (Canadian Government's) & Pestilence (Crozier) all had entries. Also, you get to see Guradian, Shaman, Snowbird, Aurora, Northstar, Puck, Sasquatch and Wild Child (along with Logan & Creed) in the Mutant X-Verse entry as well.

[rplass]

I wasn't expecting an entry for Marrina. She hasn't been covered in recent handbooks, and it wasn't likely for her to get a new entry...


In the Plodex entry, expect to see Marrina and Mar at least in the illustrations, as they were shown in issue #8 of the A-Z series.

Yup, Marrina and Mar made it into volume 9. Here's a rundown:

Marrina - in two illustrations in the 1pg Plodex entry
Mar- in the Plodex entry
Puck- in his own 2pg entry, and also very tiny in the Plodex entry
Puck (Zuzha Yu) - in her own 1pg entry
Nemesis - OK this isn't really an appearance but the tip of her middle finger appears in the illustration for Mar in the Plodex entry :)
Radius- has a 1/2 pg entry
Aurora- appears in Sabretooth's entry, an image taken from the cover of X-Men #188

In the Puck entry, there is an illustration with parts of Heather, Shaman, Talismanand Wildheart from AF# 127.




Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

I see they mentioned that Puck's durability weakened over time, anyone remember that talk we had in this thread? Hmmm...

[Loki]

I see they mentioned that Puck's durability weakened over time, anyone remember that talk we had in this thread? Hmmm...
Yes. Which is why the entry got modified. We listen to feedback. Leaving him at the higher level wasn't an option, as we checked with Steve Seagle who confirmed that Puck's superhuman power levels had faded by the time of that incarnation of Alpha Flight. It might not be the answer you wanted to hear, but you can take some solace that we haven't overlooked Puck's old power level and that we did listen to the feedback.

[-K-M-]

No I'm happy with it as there was no explanation before, but this greatly clears things up. Thanks

Now what about Sasquatch? :?

[Loki]

No I'm happy with it as there was no explanation before, but this greatly clears things up. Thanks

Now what about Sasquatch? :?

His entry is in the next volume. :wink:

[-K-M-]

His entry is in the next volume. :wink:

Damn you and your market tactics :P

[rplass]

Major Mapleleaf Jr.'s horse, Thunder, makes an appearance in the Marvel Pets Handbook.

Solicit from Marvel (http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=12081)

He's on the page, "Miscellaneous Pets", bleh, he should have had his own entry, but that's OK. You can see part of MMLJR's arm, too. Interestingly, he's one of FOUR Thunders in the Handbook: there were three other steeds from Western-themed comics in the 50s and 60s.

You can see Marrina, Northstar, Aurora and Sasquatch in a small inset from Marvel Team-Up Annual #7 in the entry for The Collector's Pets.

Love,
rplass

[rplass]

Volume 10 has Sasquatch on the cover!

And entries for
Sasquatch 3pg with images also of Heather and Mac in battle armor
Shaman 2pg with images also of Northstar and Heather
Snowbird 2pg with an image of Sasquatch

Also, in the entry for Secret Defenders, Northstar has a head shot.

In Sasquatch's entry there's an odd mention of the events in Cat's Paw, the Alpha Flight module from the TSR Marvel Super-Heroes RPG, as if it were in continuity. Strange. I asked the writers about it on the official forum, I wonder what's up with that?

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

Gah! Got to get this

So what did they say about Walter's strength is he still listed class 70?

[Loki]

Gah! Got to get this

So what did they say about Walter's strength is he still listed class 70?
As Sasquatch, he possesses enhanced senses, superhuman durability, strength (lifting 90 tons) and regenerative abilities. He has occasionally demonstrated significantly greater strength, possibly via unconsciously and dangerously drawing on Tanaraq’s power.

With a note that he has also worn armor which enhanced him to 100 tons (when he fought Juggernaut), and that as Box he could lift 85 tons.

[Loki]

In Sasquatch's entry there's an odd mention of the events in Cat's Paw, the Alpha Flight module from the TSR Marvel Super-Heroes RPG, as if it were in continuity. Strange. I asked the writers about it on the official forum, I wonder what's up with that?


With stories that appeared in mediums other than comics, it's judged on a case by case basis. There's nothing to rule Cat's Paw out of continuity; this isn't the first entry it got referenced in.

[-K-M-]

As Sasquatch, he possesses enhanced senses, superhuman durability, strength (lifting 90 tons) and regenerative abilities. He has occasionally demonstrated significantly greater strength, possibly via unconsciously and dangerously drawing on Tanaraq’s power.

With a note that he has also worn armor which enhanced him to 100 tons (when he fought Juggernaut), and that as Box he could lift 85 tons.

Exactally what I was hoping for :D Now I just have to pick it up

Thanks Scott
-----
Also on a side note what's Cat's Paw? Im an avid Marvel reader of all series but I have never heard of this

[rplass]

With stories that appeared in mediums other than comics, it's judged on a case by case basis. There's nothing to rule Cat's Paw out of continuity; this isn't the first entry it got referenced in.

Well, that's interesting and thanks for clearing that up. I'm gonna go try to find the other entry or entries that also reference Cat's Paw.

Love,
rplass

[Flightpath07]

As Sasquatch, he possesses enhanced senses, superhuman durability, strength (lifting 90 tons) and regenerative abilities. He has occasionally demonstrated significantly greater strength, possibly via unconsciously and dangerously drawing on Tanaraq’s power.

With a note that he has also worn armor which enhanced him to 100 tons (when he fought Juggernaut), and that as Box he could lift 85 tons.

Exactally what I was hoping for :D Now I just have to pick it up

Thanks Scott
-----
Also on a side note what's Cat's Paw? Im an avid Marvel reader of all series but I have never heard of this

I could be wrong (and I am sure to be corrected if I am :roll: ), but I believe that Cat's Paw was a mod for a Marvel role-playing game that featured Alpha Flight.

[Loki]

I could be wrong (and I am sure to be corrected if I am :roll: ), but I believe that Cat's Paw was a mod for a Marvel role-playing game that featured Alpha Flight.

You have it correct.

[Ben]

I have Cat's Paw here somewhere....in a box...I hope...

NEVER MOVING AGAIN!

[rplass]

Ack, I also see Madison Jeffries in the entry for Sentinels. There's a little picture of him listed as a Sentinel creator (he was forced to do this when he was in Weapon X). It's the same illustration from the previous handbook #9 of the A-Z series.

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

I could be wrong (and I am sure to be corrected if I am :roll: ), but I believe that Cat's Paw was a mod for a Marvel role-playing game that featured Alpha Flight.

That's why I havn't heard of it, I didn't realize there were stories that came with them.

[Flightpath07]

I could be wrong (and I am sure to be corrected if I am :roll: ), but I believe that Cat's Paw was a mod for a Marvel role-playing game that featured Alpha Flight.

That's why I havn't heard of it, I didn't realize there were stories that came with them.

Never seen it myself, but I remember it being mentioned in another post somewehre.

[rplass]

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 12 PREMIERE HC (http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=13857)

THE STORY:
Who watches the Watcher? The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe does! This latest volume of the handbook series features more up-to-date and expanded biographies of the Marvel characters you love! Thor proclaims this tome "good as Asgardian gold" because it includes the Thing, 3-D Man, Thunderbird, Thundra, Tigra, Toro, the Two-Gun Kid, Ultragirl, Union Jack, the USAgent, Valkyrie and Vindicator! Thanos declares this book "cold as Death's kiss" because of the Titanium Man, Toad, Tyrannus, the U-Foes, Ultron, Umar and Venom! Also: Thunderbolts! Vampires! Flash Thompson! Ben Urich! Thunderstrike! and much, much more! Rated T …$24.99

PRICE: 24.99
IN STORES: January 27, 2010
FORMAT: hardcover

Click on the title, it's a link to the Marvel solicit. You can see Vindicator on the cover. Yay!

Also it's obvious that this 12-volume series is going past 12 issues. Probably 14? Maybe more!

Love,
rplass

[Loki]

Hardcover #11 is out. I take it no one has seen it yet, as no one has mentioned the...erm, small bonus?

[MistressMerr]

Amazon.ca doesn't have it until December 23rd, someone keep me updated! :D

[rplass]

Ah, you're talking about the new entry for Smart Alec? Very nice. Seeing as how there are hardly any new entries at all, it's quite impressive. As nice as it is though, given the choice, I'd rather see Marrina get an entry than Smart Alec, eh?

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

Nice I was a fan on Smart Alec, good to see he got an entry

Off-topic: Also I never understood why Colossus is listed as class 100. Im a big X-Men reader and he really hasn't done anything to warrant that (sans the spaceship in secret wars, but the engines would be helping him)

[rplass]

Because 99% of Colossus is either:

"Boo hoo my sister is gone wah wah"
or
"Boo hoo my Kitty is gone wah wah"

so you never get to see him be all strong and stuff in between all the boo hoo's and wah wah's. Also, he's been crowded out by Cyke, Emma, Rogue and Gambit in what are really crowded X-books right now.

Love,
rplass

[Flightpath07]

in what are really crowded X-books right now.

The X books are the new "Where's Waldo?" series. You have to squint and get real close to the pages to try to make out if you can see the tip of the left ear of your favourite character, and then weep for joy when you find it (because that means he/she/it is still alive, and somebody out there cares enough about them to include their ear-tip in this issue).

At some point, it stops being a comic and becomes an ink-blot test. As Rorschach says, "It's a pretty flower."

[HappyCanuck]

in what are really crowded X-books right now.

The X books are the new "Where's Waldo?" series. You have to squint and get real close to the pages to try to make out if you can see the tip of the left ear of your favourite character, and then weep for joy when you find it (because that means he/she/it is still alive, and somebody out there cares enough about them to include their ear-tip in this issue).

At some point, it stops being a comic and becomes an ink-blot test. As Rorschach says, "It's a pretty flower."

Okay, Flightpath, that has GOT to be the best description I've read so far...

[Flightpath07]

Too kind, Allan. (I like the name, by the way; I've been using it my whole life.)

[maniac mike]

I'm still waiting for a "Flashback" entry! :evil:

[Flightpath07]

I'm still waiting for a "Flashback" entry! :evil:

Is that a Vietnam flashback, a '60s acid trip flashback, or an Alpha Flight one?

[rplass]

I'm still waiting for a "Flashback" entry! :evil:

Well, yeah, if they're going to give Smart Alec an entry, they may as well round out the remaining original Alpha/Beta/Gamma Flights with a Flashback entry. Oh, and Marrina should get an entry too, who was in Alpha Flight, the Avengers and who married Namor, but somehow she doesn't get an entry in the HC version, that's puzzling.

Love,
rplass

[MistressMerr]

I can't tell you why, but the one I've been sitting on my hands waiting for for years is Mesmero. I've just always loved that guy. XD

Marrina not getting one is just weird.

[rplass]

Snap! Mesmero didn't get an entry? Harrumph! I hope the writers go back and add in new entries for characters like Marrina and Mesmero who didn't make it into this round.

Anyway, here's the deal for issue #11 of the Hardcover series:

Talisman is on the cover wearing her Omega Flight costume
Smart Alec has a 1/2 page entry, significant because it's a new entry, and there have hardly been any new entries in this series
Talisman has a 2pg entry, mostly the same as her entry in the Mystic Arcana Handbook. One of the illustrations, taken from the cover of Alpha Flight #19, has been expanded so you can now see tiny Snowbird and tiny Puck in the background, in addition to tiny Shaman and tiny Heather.

In the Talisman entry, it confirms that Omega Flight has been disbanded, and it says that the team was disbanded when most of the American team members left, in other words, when USAgent left in Mighty Avengers #23.

Love,
rplass

[maniac mike]

I'm still waiting for a "Flashback" entry! :evil:

Is that a Vietnam flashback, a '60s acid trip flashback, or an Alpha Flight one?

:lol: I was thinking the AF one... course the movie wasn't bad either with Dennis Hopper and Keifer Sutherland .

[-K-M-]

Also I never understood why Diamond Lil is listed as "normal" strength when she has shown multiple times superhuman strength. Ah well.

[Flightpath07]

I always felt that if somebody went back and told some "untold" stories of the original Alpha Flight team, that perhaps Smart Alec is one of those characters who would get some stories told about him. In one sense, he was such an interesting character. In another sense, you had to wonder why this genius with no superpowers and who didn't know how to lead people got to be on the team.

BTW, good to know Omega Flight is offically disbanded. Wonder if Arachne is home now or not?


Snap! Mesmero didn't get an entry? Harrumph! I hope the writers go back and add in new entries for characters like Marrina and Mesmero who didn't make it into this round.

Anyway, here's the deal for issue #11 of the Hardcover series:

Talisman is on the cover wearing her Omega Flight costume
Smart Alec has a 1/2 page entry, significant because it's a new entry, and there have hardly been any new entries in this series
Talisman has a 2pg entry, mostly the same as her entry in the Mystic Arcana Handbook. One of the illustrations, taken from the cover of Alpha Flight #19, has been expanded so you can now see tiny Snowbird and tiny Puck in the background, in addition to tiny Shaman and tiny Heather.

In the Talisman entry, it confirms that Omega Flight has been disbanded, and it says that the team was disbanded when most of the American team members left, in other words, when USAgent left in Mighty Avengers #23.

Love,
rplass

[Flightpath07]

I could be wrong, but was she not originally written as having super dense skin, and that was it? I know that later she was shown to have super-strenght, but was she meant to have that originally? Does anybody know the answer to this?


Also I never understood why Diamond Lil is listed as "normal" strength when she has shown multiple times superhuman strength. Ah well.

[Loki]

I'm still waiting for a "Flashback" entry! :evil:

Well, yeah, if they're going to give Smart Alec an entry, they may as well round out the remaining original Alpha/Beta/Gamma Flights with a Flashback entry. Oh, and Marrina should get an entry too, who was in Alpha Flight, the Avengers and who married Namor, but somehow she doesn't get an entry in the HC version, that's puzzling.

Love,
rplass

We hopefully will get round to giving all of them entries, given time. There's little by way of brand new entries in the HC - where we have done so is either to split off characters who share the same alias into separate entries instead of amalgamated ones, or to fill slots where we would otherwise have an odd number of half-pagers for a given letter. The latter is where Smart Alec got his break. The new handbooks next year should give some scope for covering some of the gaps, though obviously the missing Alphans both need to wait for a suitable handbook, and compete with the other worthies needing coverage.

[-K-M-]

I cant recall did ROM appear in the A-Z handbooks? I know there is the legal issues associated with the character

[rplass]

The Spaceknights had a 5page (!!) entry in the 10th volume of the Hardcovers. ROM didn't get his own entry. Like the previous entry in the Legacy 1980s handbook, he didn't even get an illustration in the Spaceknights entry, though he was mentioned in the text extensively.

Love,
rplass

[Phil]

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 13 PREMIERE HC
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, STUART VANDAL, RONALD BYRD, MIKE O’SULLIVAN, MICHAEL HOSKIN, MADISON CARTER, SEAN MCQUAID, MIKE FICHERA, MARKUS RAYMOND, ROB LONDON, JACOB ROUGEMONT, CHRIS BIGGS, JEPH YORK, DAVID WILTFONG & KEVIN GARCIA
Penciled by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM GRUMMETT
Because twelve volumes couldn't possibly be enough, the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe carries on with lucky number thirteen! Featuring more expanded and up-to-date biographies from the likes of the Vision to the Young Avengers! Including a host of X-teams including X-Factor, X-Force, X-Men and X-Statix! Includes heroes such as War Machine, the Hulk's Warbound, Adam Warlock, Warpath, the Wasp(s), Wiccan, the Winter Guard, Pete Wisdom, Wolfsbane, Wolverine, Wonder Man, Jimmy Woo, X-23, Nate Grey the X-Man and Xorn! With villains including Emperor Vulcan, Vulture, Weapon X, Wendigo, Whiplash, Wizard, the Wrecking Crew and the Yellow Claw! Plus: Werewolves! Wild Child! The New Mutants' Warlock! Asgard's own Warriors Three! Mary Jane Watson! Face it tiger, you just hit the mother lode!
240 PGS./Rated T+ ...$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-4178-5
Trim size: standard

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/091222-marvel-march-2010-solicitations.html

[-K-M-]

Im interested to see what they say about Wild Child, but the entry Im looking forward to the most is Wendigo.

Im sure Omega Flight will also get a mention in the Wrecking Crew entry.

[rplass]

OK issue #12 is out and Alpha Flight made it again!

Vindicator is on the cover and gets a 2pg entry, expanded from her 1pg entry in the 2005 OHOtMU Women of Marvel. One of the illustrations is the awesome "battle armor" from Uncanny X-Men #432 and you can see part of Northstar's back and part of Sasquatch's armor in that illustration.

The Tribe of the Moon had a 1pg entry

And you can see Alt. Heather Hudson (Exiles) in the Timebreakers entry, very tiny.

Noteworthy part of Vindicator's entry: the last sentence "The status and location of the Hudson's daughter following the death of her parents is unrevealed."

Also, Wolverine is listed as one of her known relatives as "cousin, once removed by marriage" which is correct if you can follow the Hudson family tree (http://alphaflightcollector.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-amazing-hudson-issue/) from Wolverine Origins #33

Love,
rplass

[DelBubs]

rplass, please, as a kindness to me, never post that link to the Hudson family tree again. I have never read that before and would hope that I never have to again. :-)

[rplass]

OK I won't, but realize that by expressing extreme revulsion to a link is the surest way to get people to click on it. Thanks for helping generate the extra traffic!

Love,
rplass

[DelBubs]

OK I won't, but realize that by expressing extreme revulsion to a link is the surest way to get people to click on it. Thanks for helping generate the extra traffic!

Love,
rplass My revulsion is not directed to the blog, but the subject matter. It just reminds me how ridiculous Marvel are when it comes to retconning things. It suggests to me that the fella who writes soap scripts maybe had a weekend off :-)

[Loki]

I guess nobody spotted the Alphan in the Official Handbook A-Z Update #1 that was released this week? Only a small entry for a minor Alphan (before anyone rushes out and buys it only to be disappointed), but a new entry nonetheless. And new art for them too.

[-K-M-]

I guess nobody spotted the Alphan in the Official Handbook A-Z Update #1 that was released this week? Only a small entry for a minor Alphan (before anyone rushes out and buys it only to be disappointed), but a new entry nonetheless. And new art for them too.

Who was it?

[Loki]

Who was it?

Manbot

[-K-M-]

Manbot

Well I'll be, that would be interesting to see. I assume his current whereabouts are unknown.