More to wet our appetites

[Ahab]

Check out the new preview art of Civil War - The Initiative at Joe Fridays (Newsarama). It's only one page worth, but makes you wonder what exactly it all means...

[varo]

ummm....well this is pure speculation, and i may be wrong, but it looks like walter is interrogating Micheal from the collective, and he doesn't seem happy, and he's holding guardians costume.

anyone want to take a guess who may be under guardians helmet?

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF33art/CWI001010_011_t.jpg

[Phil]

Phil needs to own that page....

[-K-M-]

link to interview?

and Oeming said it wouldn't be Micheal in the suit, I would be pissed if it's him.

[Snowsquatch]

Whoa, it does look like he's giving him the suit....

[-K-M-]

I will be so pissed off if it's him.

[Phil]

I will be so pissed off if it's him.

For what reason?

[-K-M-]

I will be so pissed off if it's him.

For what reason?

Horrible character, horrible ark and it's basically an insult. You killed AF so now you have to be a member.

[Phil]

I will be so pissed off if it's him.

For what reason?

Horrible character, horrible ark and it's basically an insult. You killed AF so now you have to be a member.

A character that's had literally 2 seconds of screen time is horrible?
Horrible arc... fairplay.
I can't see that it's an insult though, and we can't really judge untill we see how it's written, if it is actually what we're guessing.

[Mokole]

I completely agree, King Mungi. I'll hate it if Postman Mike is Guardian. Hey, let's make Osama Bin-Laden chief engineer on the new Twin Towers! Clifford Olsen the Director of B.C. Child Services!

Duh. :evil:

However, looks more to me like he's yelling at Postman Mike (yah, it's most likely him) about killing AF, and turning into Sasquatch and showing him Mac Hudson's uniform is supposed to bring Postman Mike's crimes home to him. But give the criminal the power suit and leadership of Omega Flight????? Who cares if he didn't do it of 'free will', for heaven's sake the guy's a mailman!!

Looks like, to me:

Langkowski: "Do you know me?"

Mailman: "No"

Sasquatch: "HOW ABOUT NOW!"

Mailman: "buh"

Sasquatch: "Do you recognize this? You murdered the person who wore this suit. And 6 more..."

Mailman: "Buh?"

Sasquatch: "Let me show you, idiot murderer..." Turns on the tv.

And I really, really hope it's not going to turn into, "OK, look, mailman, to make amends for killing hundreds of people plus 7 of my closest friends we're going to give you this incredible powerful e-m suit and let you join Omega Flight. You'll get free reign to act as you like, too. Sure, it sounds sweet, being handed a weapon of mass destruction, the role of a great hero, a well-respected code name, but it's punishment enough for what you did. And your work as a mailman makes you suited to being Canada's leading hero. But remember, mess up and we'll make you Prime Minister!"

No, I think the next lines will be, "You killed my friends, and you don't remember it? Back to SHIELD with you, I want nothing to do with you. I need to talk to Kyle Gibney." :shock:

edit: And he would have no training et al in the time between this meeting and Omega Flight #1, as according to Marvel the time of Civil WAr is about 3 weeks, so Postman Mike is seeing him during Civil War, days or hours before Omega Flight forms.

[-K-M-]

A character that's had literally 2 seconds of screen time is horrible?
Horrible arc... fairplay.
I can't see that it's an insult though, and we can't really judge untill we see how it's written, if it is actually what we're guessing.

He had more than 2 seconds, and yes he was horrible for that amount of time he did appear.

I definetly take it as a huge burn against AF, if he joined I can honestly say my excitment for this series would be diminished. I dispise this character so much

[Phil]

But give the criminal the power suit and leadership of Omega Flight?????

Technically he's not a criminal, and who said Guardian was the leader of OF?

Plus, weren't they gonna make Wolverine, a criminal killer, the leader of AF?

[Phil]

He had more than 2 seconds, and yes he was horrible for that amount of time he did appear.

In the grand scheme of the Marvel Universe, from FF#1 to now it's about 2 seconds screen time realistically.

And let's see what happens before we start burning effigies ... Bendis and Oeming could well be throwing a curve here... could it be that this particular page was previewed to start up this very debate because it's been mentioned it could be him in order to fool us into carrying on thinking that?

Plus, wasn't the reveal of Guardian going to be in OF not CW:The Initiative?

[Mokole]

He's a mailman. Wolverine has worked for various governments, the X-Men, Weapon X. A mailman, though maybe not totally of his whole volitian, killed hundreds of people. And he has no business being Guardian, no familiarity with AF, no familiarity with technology, none with the suit, none as a hero.....

Edit: yes, the reveal was supposed to be in OF #3, now OF #2...

So hopefully we can be rest assured that an abetting murderer mailman ain't Guardian.

Another edit: Make him Iron Man, makes more sense anyway. :P

[Corvus]

link to interview?

and Oeming said it wouldn't be Micheal in the suit, I would be pissed if it's him.

Its in today's Joe Friday's (http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays33.html)
Link to full size image (http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF33art/CWI001010_011.jpg)

Edit: Walt needs a suit made of unstable molecules or something.

[Phil]

And he has no business being Guardian, no familiarity with AF, no familiarity with technology, none with the suit, none as a hero.....

None of that prevents him from being it though, and Mac had no experience as a hero untill he pulled the suit on, surely?

[Corvus]

Personally, I won't be very happy with the idea of Mike being Guardian. Having the guy who killed Talisman's father and the rest of Alpha Flight on the team would be bad enough, but having him in the Guardian suit, is even worse.

I don't really like the idea of a non-Canadian in the suit either, just as I wouldn't want a non-American Captain America, or a non-British Captain Britain.

[Le Messor]

Then Walt seems to use a remote control to open a door.
Is he letting Mike into a program? Is he throwing him in jail?

- Le Messor
"I can only show you the door. You must go through it."
- The Matrix

[Phil]

I don't really like the idea of a non-Canadian in the suit either, just as I wouldn't want a non-American Captain America, or a non-British Captain Britain.

Now that to me is the first reason as to why it shouldn't be him.
But I'll wait and see what's written before I bash anything.

[Mokole]

None of that prevents him from being it though, and Mac had no experience as a hero untill he pulled the suit on, surely?

Ah, but Mac designed and built and trained with the suit, as well as previous versions of the suit (Groundhog) plus he ran AF before becoming Guardian. Postman Mike... used to walk a bit in Fairbanks, used to live near Canada, visited once, isn't welcomed back.

Edit: And really, this is comics, nothing prevents them from having anyone be Guardian. They could make it Mar-Vell or Ruby Gloom or the Blob, or even Garrison Kane. If they use reality, lots prevents mailmen from becoming superheroes for no reason.

[mreeez]

I'm hoping the tool is that they intimate that everyone 'cept Walt died and the big revelation is that Mac is alive and in the suit.

I can keep my fingers crossed, can't I?

[Mokole]

I'm hoping the tool is that they intimate that everyone 'cept Walt died and the big revelation is that Mac is alive and in the suit.

I can keep my fingers crossed, can't I?

'til April :wink:

[Nick Nightingale]

Could it be Wild Child without is powers???

[Ottawa Renegade]

I think that when they release preview art like this, they try to avoid spoiling any surprises. They wouldn't have shown us this page if there was any chance that it revealed this dude as Guardian. Forget it.

Besides, it looks more to me like he's waving it in his face in a "look what you did" way. Which would not only lead me to think that this guy is most definitely NOT going to be guardian, but that Mac is at the very least believed to be very much dead still.

[Nick Nightingale]

Yes but Sasquatch clicks on a remote control, I was thinking to free the bald guy, maybe? no??

[Corvus]

Yes but Sasquatch clicks on a remote control, I was thinking to free the bald guy, maybe? no??

Electric shock collar. :D

[Phil]

I presumed the remote was opening the door or whatever it is in the next panel...

[Guardian]

Sweet art. Sassy looks very pissed. But I'm sure that he isn't handing the Guardian suit to the mailman (I assume that's who it is). I think he's just holding up to show him what he destroyed. Maybe? But that could mean that Mac is really dead. :cry: But it could also mean something else. Now I'm just confused. :x

[SephirothsKiller]

I thought that when Walt transformed his clothes went to the other dimension with his human body?

Hmmm... Maybe Sasquatch is giving Mike a "work off your sins" kind of request? I dunno, it seems like not the smartest thing to do regardless of the situation. (Unless we find out that he has super mailman training!)

And again, a-non Canadian in the suit is crazy. Mac would die. Oh wait, he already did. But its Marvel so he could die again!

[Adam]

if I remember correctly Michael was just some terrified normal guy being used as a vessel for Xorn/HoM-Energy/whatever. I wouldn't call him a terrible character as much as he was a non-character. He hasn't really said or done anything yet, and as I understand it he wasn't quite in his right state of mind when Alpha was run through.

I have no problem with Michael being Guardian as long as it makes some sort of rational sense. It would make for some interesting conflict with Walter and Elizabeth... my only big concern would be "why would he wear the flag?"

[SephirothsKiller]

Someone I know said "Maybe it turns out he was a Canadian working in Alaska." I feel that this is would be a cop out. Anybody else?

Oh, and marvel.com's catelog page as everyone probably knows has always featured a "family" page for various categories of comics "X-comics, avengers comics, etc..." Well they now have an Omega Flight family! Yay! A family of one!

[Corvus]

Someone I know said "Maybe it turns out he was a Canadian working in Alaska." I feel that this is would be a cop out. Anybody else?

Yeah, I kind of would feel that it was a cop out.

[varo]

now that i think about it mac had a tear running down his face in the snow in avengers, as did scott's pic from last week.

could be mac.

[Canucklehead]

If that is the Mail-man, what would be the point of Sassy holding the suit infront of him as he's tied up other then telling him he's going to wear it? Maybe with one of those control chips like the new Thunderbolts have? I mean, why else show this scene? If they are just going to cart him away afterwards, what would be the point?

[SephirothsKiller]

If that is the Mail-man, what would be the point of Sassy holding the suit infront of him as he's tied up other then telling him he's going to wear it? Maybe with one of those control chips like the new Thunderbolts have? I mean, why else show this scene? If they are just going to cart him away afterwards, what would be the point?

Dunno, but its not like we find out there, Guardian's identity is revealed in OF #2, and I doubt such an obvious hint would be shown in the initiative.

I find that Mikey there (its definately him imo, Sasquatch is holding a remote which is going to be used for... Showing Mikey a video of ...something mayhap?) is looking pretty fearful, while so far the two pictures we've seen of Guardian have had him looking sad/pi$$ed and ready to kick tail.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I like the art (Silvestri is great)...But anything else I have to say would end with a groan.

Dana :roll:

[cmdrkoenig67]

None of that prevents him from being it though, and Mac had no experience as a hero untill he pulled the suit on, surely?

Ah, but Mac designed and built and trained with the suit, as well as previous versions of the suit (Groundhog) plus he ran AF before becoming Guardian. Postman Mike... used to walk a bit in Fairbanks, used to live near Canada, visited once, isn't welcomed back.

Edit: And really, this is comics, nothing prevents them from having anyone be Guardian. They could make it Mar-Vell or Ruby Gloom or the Blob, or even Garrison Kane. If they use reality, lots prevents mailmen from becoming superheroes for no reason.

Hey...Why not Garrison Kane?..At least he's a flippin' Canadian (he's also supposedly dead now, but that hasn't stopped most heroes from coming back).

Dana :D

[Mokole]

If that is the Mail-man, what would be the point of Sassy holding the suit infront of him as he's tied up other then telling him he's going to wear it? Maybe with one of those control chips like the new Thunderbolts have? I mean, why else show this scene? If they are just going to cart him away afterwards, what would be the point?

Like I said before, maybe it's "do you know you you killed". He ain't giving it, he's making him see the evil he did.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I have to wonder if Mike even did do it...Or was he just used to do it? I don't think he asked to have the powers of hundreds (maybe thousands or more) of de-powered mutants to come crashing down on his head, causing him to go on a whacked-out killing spree.

Dana

[Canucklehead]

I have to wonder if Mike even did do it...Or was he just used to do it? I don't think he asked to have the powers of hundreds (maybe thousands or more) of de-powered mutants to come crashing down on his head, causing him to go on a whacked-out killing spree.

I never picked up the next issue of NA. At the end, did all of the powers leave him or just Magnito and Xorn's?

Edit: The Innitiative is 64 pages. I wonder how many are reserved for Omega.

[kozzi24]

Hey...Why not Garrison Kane?..At least he's a flippin' Canadian (he's also supposedly dead now, but that hasn't stopped most heroes from coming back).

Dana :D

That occured to me this week too, tho I now can't remember why.

[Legerd]

I think Marvel is only setting the scene for postman Mike to appear in a title, not neccesarily OF. As it was left, Mikey still has some of the power(s) of The Collective, so maybe SHIELD is using Sas to get Mike onboard with the registration and training using the "Scared Straight" method. What better way to guilt someone than by having him face his victim(s). Who wants to bet that the remote activates a monitor on which Mike will watch the battle The Collective had with AF?
If it turns out that the postman does become Guardian, then yes I'll be disappointed. I don't feel any amount of writing ability/talent (and this is not meant as an insult or an attack) can make the diehard fans forget what he (as The Collective) did to AF. It will leave too much of a bad taste to enjoy the series. My opinion on what is still speculation.

[Flightpath07]

Last panel.

Look at it closely.

After Sas clicks the remote, what I see is a big cloud fo smoke and a huge hole in the wall.

Wanna know my thoughts? Sas looks pissed, over the edge. Looks like he wants revenge. Looks like he wants Mikey to run free, so he can hunt him down and kill him. he is baiting him, scaring him, trying to make him flee, so he can go after him and make him pay for murdering Sas' friends and teammates.

If that is at all correct, then the pages of OF with Walter drinking and stuff make a heckuva lot more sense. He has lost it, completely lost it. And THAT is why we are still not sure if he joins OF or not...nobody, not even Walter himself, knows if he is mentally and emotionaly stable enough to go on!

[Canucklehead]

Last panel.

Look at it closely.

Oh, you're good. I like that scenerio.

It would also explain Kolins remark about how he'd like to "see the Wrecking Crew back after they are ki..." 8)

[Ben]

I think we can expect a much darker, grimmer Sasquatch than we've seen before.

Ben

[Mokole]

True, after NA it would make sense to have Sasquatch not exactly be the same person. One thing to be seriously injured (he's had that before), another to see people die, but to be almost killed, see your mates die, and know that SHIELD sent you in without any warning that this guy was a murderer... That would change him.

Is a door opening or is that a huge viewscreen? I wonder...

[Flightpath07]

True, after NA it would make sense to have Sasquatch not exactly be the same person. One thing to be seriously injured (he's had that before), another to see people die, but to be almost killed, see your mates die, and know that SHIELD sent you in without any warning that this guy was a murderer... That would change him.

Is a door opening or is that a huge viewscreen? I wonder...

Still looks like smoke from an explosion to me!

[Canucklehead]

Still looks like smoke from an explosion to me!

Did he just blow up Post-Man Pat's black and white cat!? :shock:

I don't think a view screen would smoke like that. Maybe lifting the suit, he's telling him what he did or asking what he did to Mac. Maybe Mac's alive and Smooookin' behind that door.

[Le Messor]

know that SHIELD sent you in without any warning that this guy was a murderer.
Is a door opening or is that a huge viewscreen? I wonder...

Did SHIELD even know that? He'd destroyed a SHIELD unit by then, hadn't he... so, yes. But, we don't know what AF got told. We know next to nothing about that chapter in AF's lives. Did SHIELD send them, or did they go on their own? (Can't remember if we know this.)

Also, I see a door opening and steam (or something) flowing in from it. Cryo? What? I don't imagine it's a door to the outside. It's a classic image.

- Le Messor
"Color me stunned."
- Buffy

[Flightpath07]

Don't you love how many different things we all see? Seriously, i find that fascinating.
It is one panel. Yes, it is fairly small. But it is still one image. here we all are, dissecting it, trying to find some clue as to what is to come. And Marvel worries that OF won't sell well enuff to be a monthly title?! Come on (*exasperation showing, but knowing that realistically Marvel is doing what they have to do*)!
Anywsys, it is fascinating that we can all look at that same image, and see different details, or shape the image to see what we believe should be there. I wish i was a psychologist, I am sure there is some sort of AlphaFlight-mass-hysteria happening here ; think we could get some medication for that? Oh wait, i know what would work - bring back Alpha Flight!
lol

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Personally, I won't be very happy with the idea of Mike being Guardian. Having the guy who killed Talisman's father and the rest of Alpha Flight on the team would be bad enough, but having him in the Guardian suit, is even worse. ...

As for the training aspect, James invented the e-m suit, so he would have more familiarity with his own invention, some self-training, prior to being involved with Dept. H. After joining Dept. H, he'd have to had some seriously intense training if his very first assignment was to bring back Wolverine.

As for the the insinuation that James actively sought murderers for Alpha Flight, I've always been skeptical of that. As part of a huge bureaucratic operation that used James, I think he got the blame for a lot of the unethical behavior of others. Moreover, when Cody discovers the file on Bedlam, it is after the government has rebuilt the Langkowski mansion and installed a whole lot of computer equipment.

And The Master can control stuff like that.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Personally, I won't be very happy with the idea of Mike being Guardian. Having the guy who killed Talisman's father and the rest of Alpha Flight on the team would be bad enough, but having him in the Guardian suit, is even worse. ...

As for the training aspect, James invented the e-m suit, so he would have more familiarity with his own invention, some self-training, prior to being involved with Dept. H. After joining Dept. H, he'd have to had some seriously intense training if his very first assignment was to bring back Wolverine.

As for the the insinuation that James actively sought murderers for Alpha Flight, I've always been skeptical of that. As part of a huge bureaucratic operation that used James, I think he got the blame for a lot of the unethical behavior of others. Moreover, when Cody discovers the file on Bedlam, it is after the government has rebuilt the Langkowski mansion and installed a whole lot of computer equipment.

And The Master can control stuff like that.

Gary Cody discovered Bedlam in the old Dept H facility under Parlaiment Hill...Not at the Tamarind Island Alpha Flight HQ, Garry.

Dana

[SasqFan]

True, after NA it would make sense to have Sasquatch not exactly be the same person. One thing to be seriously injured (he's had that before), another to see people die, but to be almost killed, see your mates die, and know that SHIELD sent you in without any warning that this guy was a murderer... That would change him.

You're talking about Walter here. A man who joyfully became a giant orange beast, was killed by his teammate, was a disembodied soul, lived in a Box, became a woman-the teammate that killed him... yeah. Also Dept H was screwing over Alpha Flight all the time. Betrayal isn't exactly new to him.

I just think you underestimate his ability to rebound and handle adversity.

[PWalk]

Maybe a dream sequence for Walt? A Nightmare? There is no discernable background to really identify.

[DelBubs]

Personally, I won't be very happy with the idea of Mike being Guardian. Having the guy who killed Talisman's father and the rest of Alpha Flight on the team would be bad enough, but having him in the Guardian suit, is even worse. ...

As for the training aspect, James invented the e-m suit, so he would have more familiarity with his own invention, some self-training, prior to being involved with Dept. H. After joining Dept. H, he'd have to had some seriously intense training if his very first assignment was to bring back Wolverine.

As for the the insinuation that James actively sought murderers for Alpha Flight, I've always been skeptical of that. As part of a huge bureaucratic operation that used James, I think he got the blame for a lot of the unethical behavior of others. Moreover, when Cody discovers the file on Bedlam, it is after the government has rebuilt the Langkowski mansion and installed a whole lot of computer equipment.

And The Master can control stuff like that.

Gary Cody discovered Bedlam in the old Dept H facility under Parlaiment Hill...Not at the Tamarind Island Alpha Flight HQ, Garry.

Dana
I think Garry was mentioning when Cody visited Tamarind Isle after Heathers Alpha had returned from Ungava Bay. AF had dispatched the Canadian Army, Cody uised a Raider Disk to gather data on AF. Then he released Bedlam from under Parliment Hill or whatever it's called. Your both right in this one.

[-K-M-]

Watch the door open up and reveal Omega Flight.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I think Garry was mentioning when Cody visited Tamarind Isle after Heathers Alpha had returned from Ungava Bay. AF had dispatched the Canadian Army, Cody uised a Raider Disk to gather data on AF. Then he released Bedlam from under Parliment Hill or whatever it's called. Your both right in this one.

OIC...Thanks Del. I apologize Garry, I wasn't sure what you meant.

Dana

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...sometimes I'm not sure what I mean. 8)

I'm hoping The Initiative doesn't do something really wacky with Mailman Mike, and I've been trying not to be overly pessimistic, but the page of bow-tie nerd Walter/Wookie-Sasquatch just isn't getting me too enthused.

[SephirothsKiller]

...sometimes I'm not sure what I mean. 8)

I'm hoping The Initiative doesn't do something really wacky with Mailman Mike, and I've been trying not to be overly pessimistic, but the page of bow-tie nerd Walter/Wookie-Sasquatch just isn't getting me too enthused.

Maybe it wasn't Walter but Tucker Carlson with blonde hair? :o



Does anybody know anything on the ripping clothes? I swore that they weren't supposed supposed to rip when he transformed.

[Le Messor]

Does anybody know anything on the ripping clothes? I swore that they weren't supposed supposed to rip when he transformed.

They have before. It just depends on who's writing / drawing.

- Le Messor
"Common sense is what tells us the Earth is flat and and the Sun goes around it."

[Canucklehead]

Does anybody know anything on the ripping clothes? I swore that they weren't supposed supposed to rip when he transformed.

I'm fine with it in this case. Makes the transormation look more plausible. Very Hulk-like which I'm sure made Post-Man Pat need new undies.

Plus for new readers not knowing the background of Walter/Sassy, it would probably look a little strange. "Where did that blone guy go? More importantly where did this orange moster come from!?" 8)

[kozzi24]

You're talking about Walter here. A man who joyfully became a giant orange beast, was killed by his teammate, was a disembodied soul, lived in a Box, became a woman-the teammate that killed him... yeah. Also Dept H was screwing over Alpha Flight all the time. Betrayal isn't exactly new to him.

I just think you underestimate his ability to rebound and handle adversity.

Walt has often been characterized as being something of a bully, which is consistent with his enjoyment of being the hulking orange beast who is one of the strongest beings on the planet. Bullies usually do not respond well when they're beaten, so adverse reaction by Walter is to be expected and is in character. Add the dimension that at least some of his teammates died iin that battle, and he should be miserable for a while.

A reunion with Aurora now that she has been restored should be a major step in his dealing with and moving on from the tragedy.