Tom Brevoort Against Fight For The Flight

[Ben]

Tom Brevoort new blog has come out basically bashing the Fight For The Flight campaign, though it seems he has not actually looked at the site and has assumed that the campaign was simply a letter writing campaign. I have made a public response.

http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Tom%20Brevoort/entry/674

What I said in response:

As the organizer of the Fight For the Flight (http://save.alphaflight.net/) campaign which Mr. Brevoort is commenting on, I feel I should make a public response to this. The campaign was designed to encourage sales, and to give fans an easy means to inform Marvel that they support the title. I don't know what letters Mr. Brevoort were reading, but the majority of the ones I saw go through the site were simple respectful letters stating that fans had a desire for the series to be regular length. Not a sigle "irate, venom-filled" letter has gone through,

As for the letters going to the wrong address, maybe one of the addresses was the wrong one, and I'll take it off, but the letters have also been going to officex and to Joe Quesada. I certainly am taking no offense to you comments Mr. Brevoort, in fact by posting this open letter, you have shown that the campaign has gained interest, attention, and has shown that the book is making people talk, yourself included, and it's not even on the shelves.

As for the comment on the site being an excersise in futility, I beg to differ. It is NOT a petition, if you look at the site you can see that very clearly, it's fans organizing themselves to support the book, and to get people to buy it. The letters are an aside simply to let Marvel know that the book has fan support.

So I have respectfully removed MHeroes@marvel.com as a recipient of the letters. I would have appreciated Mr. Brevoort simply informing me that this email address was pointless instead of the tone of this blog, but heck, he's just raising more awareness for the campaign.

I would be happy to discuss this with you privately Mr. Brevoort.

Thank you,

Ben Wells

[Canucklehead]

Nicely said Ben. Though the link to the blog doesn't seem to be working. I hadto go to the Marvel site manually. Now the Marvel site isn't even working at the moment. Hmmm.

Like you said, at least it's getting the word out, though I was a bit insulted by his condicending tone. What is with the "More later." at the end? Is that something he writes after all of this blogs or he wants to rant some more?

At least we get to see the coloured version fo the INITIATIVE sketch. Too bad the originals are all in the back.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/126/674newstoryimage1032564gv6.jpg

[-K-M-]

Well I lost respect for the man

[Mokole]

He's never been a Flight fan in the least (his responses to questions show that awfully well). Like Joe Q he has his favorite characters and pushes them ad nauseam. But he also seems to work against charcters he doesn't like.

We lost a supporter in Marts. Alonso and Schmidt are, at worse, ambivalent but not against AF, they'll support it if we do. Cebulski too.

But I'm pretty sure Brevoort and Quesada are anti-AF. My opinion.

[Ben]

I don't think anyone is anti anything that will make money, they just don't have the same faith in the Flight that we do, that's the whole point of Fight For The Flight, to instill some confidence for them. I don't understand Tom B's reaction, but like I said in my response to him, all he's doing is helping us make noise, and bring attention to the title.

Ben

[Ben]

They deleted my response!!!!!!

Ben

[-K-M-]

Immature, Tom obviously didn't do his research and now has to cover his tracks.

[Ben]

I'm shocked...really. He publically posted inacurate comments about something I am responsible for, but won't allow me my public response...I made a quick couple posts again about my comments being deleted, I also sent him an email, and posted a message to him on his Comix-Fan board. Right now I'm pissed and want to create a **** storm about it, but I'm gonna let myself cool off before I do anything else.

Ben

[-K-M-]

You are justified being pissed, you respond in a civil and kind manner so they simply delete your comments? Nice thought Marvel has such control over what they want you to believe even if it is inaccurate.

[Mokole]

I don't understand that. Truly a lack of class by Marvel.com or Brevoort. Wrong guy went to DC, maybe. :roll:

You said zero inflammatory. Heck, I've read inflammatory stuff by Avengers and Spider-Girl fans not deleted.

[Ben]

it's not about being inflammatory, it's about my comments proving his points as being wrong. Made his whole blog look really bad I guess.

Ben

[SephirothsKiller]

Holy hell... Well I frequent the CBR forums and in the ask Tom Brevoort section of Civil War the guy usually behaves like an @$$ so this comes as little surprise.

Now I think I might write to complain about Brevoort himself, as insulting the fans is just wrong.

Edit: Ben I have to wonder why both of your comments are flaggable as offensive but none of the other posters are... How odd.


Edit #2: Someone should ask Joe Q over at Newsarama what he thinks about blogs like that. I bet Newsarama would pick it up for the next New Joe Fridays. I'd ask myself but the Newsarama boards don't work for my computer for some odd reason... :(

[-K-M-]

The truth hurts, and Breevort implied the Fight for Flight site want people to be pissed yet on the email page, "Through this email form, you will be sending your opinions directly to Joe Quesada (Marvel editor in Chief), and to the editorial office for X-Men related books. We do ask that you remain respectful while expressing you point, much more is accomplished this way."

[Ben]

Edit: Ben I have to wonder why both of your comments are flaggable as offensive but none of the other posters are... How odd.

I assume that all new comments have that link until a mod comes around and decides if each post is in, or out. My last one is obviously out.

If you look at his list of blogs, it says there are 18 responses to that blog, but when you enter it you are only able to see 8 of them. So more are getting blocked than are allowed to be seen.

Ben

[Ben]

The truth hurts, and Breevort implied the Fight for Flight site want people to be pissed yet on the email page, "Through this email form, you will be sending your opinions directly to Joe Quesada (Marvel editor in Chief), and to the editorial office for X-Men related books. We do ask that you remain respectful while expressing you point, much more is accomplished this way."

And I just looked through a pile of emails, and people have gone out of their way to be polite in their letters, none can be seen a rude, and definitely not "irate, venom-filled". He put his foot in is, and is trying to be sure people don't notice. I hope he makes some response to me, and puts my post back up.

Ben

[-K-M-]

Good old Scratchy made a comment in the Joe Q thread:

"I have an odd question; over at Marvel.com Tom Brevoort has come out pretty strongly against Save the Flight, a campaign to increase the sales of Omega Flight months before it's launch and turn it into an ongoing.

Why be against increasing sales of a Marvel comic??

Were people against increasing the sales of Spider-Girl too, and public about it?"


And I just looked through a pile of emails, and people have gone out of their way to be polite in their letters, none can be seen a rude, and definitely not "irate, venom-filled". He put his foot in is, and is trying to be sure people don't notice. I hope he makes some response to me, and puts my post back up.

Ben

Indeed, even mentioned it on the Oeming board: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=103035

[Ben]

Look at that folks, make a little noise, make them realize you won't shut up, and something interesting happens...my post has been restored.

Ben

[-K-M-]

Good, shows that we won't be pushed over

[-K-M-]

I'm getting told your post just wasn't approved and thus removed on the Oeming board.

[Ben]

Ok, so it looks like I may have jumped to conclusions, she says that's how it works there sometimes, I'll take her word for it. I assumed since it was there, and then was gone that it wasn't approved, easy mistake to make, but a mistake none the less. Let's not let this effect the nature of what Tom B. said, and what my responses were. I still feel I deserve a response from the man himself about the inaccurate comments he made.

Ben

[-K-M-]

Completly agree, "So if that's how it operates in the bloq then I apologize, still annoyed with Tom's quotes in general and the "deleted or not deleted" debate won't change it."

[Transmetropolitan]

Heh.

"Irate, venom-filled."

Right.

Like we'd expect that to get results.

I'll tell you this much, we're taking this a LOT better than the fans of a certain DC hero did a few years back....

[Corvus]

Well, thats a pretty disgusting, and frankly, immature response from Brevoort. The man can't even be bothered to get his facts right.

And is it just me, or does the colouration of that image of Omega Flight make BRB look like a zombie? His skin colour is normally a fairly bright orange, and there it looks like "month old corpse"

[mreeez]

Well, thats a pretty disgusting, and frankly, immature response from Brevoort.

I agree and what does it for me is his bravado in basically saying that they know they have our money so complaining about anything to them is 'pissing in the wind'.

[Corvus]

Well, thats a pretty disgusting, and frankly, immature response from Brevoort.

I agree and what does it for me is his bravado in basically saying that they know they have our money so complaining about anything to them is 'pissing in the wind'.

Yeah. Basically its a John Romero "Suck it down" moment.

[Ben]

Well, thats a pretty disgusting, and frankly, immature response from Brevoort.

I agree and what does it for me is his bravado in basically saying that they know they have our money so complaining about anything to them is 'pissing in the wind'.

But people aren't even complaining in these letters, for the most part. They are stating that the would like an ongoing series, that they support OF. Very little *****ing, mostly positive support, and nothing "irate and venom-filled " or "threatening and bullying" as he said.

[batman_von_gein]

this tom fellow seems like a jerk. we are the fans of marvel. we have the rights to complain and justify our beloved charatcers if we wanted to. i work at wal-mart and one thing i have learned over the years is to listen to the customers. he in a sense is blowing us off and saying we are wasting time. but if it wasn't for us he wouldn't be living in a nice house and working for the leading comic book company. he'd probally be begging for money over at image or something. i hope alot more people at marvel are like oeming and the rest of the omega flight staff. i hope they realize how much it means to the flight fans that they take time out of their schedules to talk to us. they realize we are their number one customers and it is important to know what we think and keep us informed. so to oeming and the crew thank you for all you have done. and to tom i'll be the bigger man and keep my mouth shut.

[Mokole]

Good things happen. I agree about the good emails, I sent one, a friend of mine agreed to send one, a student I teach sent one (and got a response, oddly, about why he cared!). Now my wife has sent one. A letter too.

Maybe (OK, I'm nuts) Brevoort is playing devil's advocate. Sure, that sounds crazy. OK, it is. Maybe someone who reads the emails has pretty thin skin and would rather read emails praising his/her bosses ad nauseam (neat term :P ). And s/he complained to Brevoort, who never reads any of these emails, and he willingly went on a rant.

But we'll see if he responds to Ben or someone about this.

BTW, how can he compare us to Spidergirl fans?? As my wife said, "Wasn't Spidergirl already an ongoing, so buying more copies or giving copies to people who didn't read Spidergirl made sense, where Omega Flight isn't an ongoing and isn't even out yet, so how can people increase sales those ways?"

[Canucklehead]

Tom B. just seems to need a little "TLC". We gotta draw. Come on boys, lets's see who gets the shortest straw.











Yes I've been drinkin. 8)

[Guardian]

Seriously, what a punk Tom is. I feel stupid wasting my time just reading that blog he wrote. People should do a bit of research before they "call people out."

But well put Ben. Your represent us all very, very well. If I ever got the chance to meet you, I'd have to buy you a case of beer.

[Guardian]

Tom B. just seems to need a little "TLC". We gotta draw. Come on boys, lets's see who gets the shortest straw.











Yes I've been drinkin. 8)

:lol: That was great!

[Guardian]

Nicely said Ben. Though the link to the blog doesn't seem to be working. I hadto go to the Marvel site manually. Now the Marvel site isn't even working at the moment. Hmmm.

Like you said, at least it's getting the word out, though I was a bit insulted by his condicending tone. What is with the "More later." at the end? Is that something he writes after all of this blogs or he wants to rant some more?

At least we get to see the coloured version fo the INITIATIVE sketch. Too bad the originals are all in the back.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/126/674newstoryimage1032564gv6.jpg

Pretty sweet image.

(I've gotta get my girlfriend that Talisman cosutume). =P~

[Canucklehead]

(I've gotta get my girlfriend that Talisman cosutume). =P~

My girl already does lol. My gf is from northern NB. MANY people there have Native in them from the time the first settlers came. They sent all males first to settle the land before sending over the women. Let's just say the men couldn't wait that long lol.

She's my Pocahontas 8)

[Guardian]

(I've gotta get my girlfriend that Talisman cosutume). =P~

My girl already does lol. My gf is from northern NB. MANY people there have Native in them from the time the first settlers came. They sent all males first to settle the land before sending over the women. Let's just say the men couldn't wait that long lol.

She's my Pocahontas 8)

:D

Well, my better-half is asian (Vietnamese) so we make do with other things! That's all I'm gonna say............................................... . :twisted:

this is a family site after all.

[Canucklehead]

:D

Well, my better-half is asian (Vietnam) so we make do with other things!

Niiice. Ever had Swedish Twins? (not what you think)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdXPcGCCUjQ&eurl=

[Guardian]

Nah, I like hockey (Washington Capitals fan) but I don't LIKE LIKE hockey players.

[SephirothsKiller]

Talisman's outfit copyright Jennifer Lopez methinks. Damnit I'm getting off topic again...

[Oeming]

Okay. Lots of Tom bashing here. I know you dont know Tom and its easy to take what he says and change it to mean what you would like it to mean, but I promise you he is not being a jerk or whatever. There is a context for everything and you dont have the whole picture. Please stop the Tom bashing.
If he deserved it I would be silent:)
M!

[Mystic]

That blog has upset me. I have plunked far too much money into Marvel over the years to ultimately have a carrot dangled in front of me time and time again. Yes, I understand it's a new team...but so is the spin-off from Runaways, and from all I've seen from that, they're an on-going. I've even upped my order each month of the OF mini and am plunking more money than I really should.

To have someone who works at Marvel have that sort of attitude...

Grrr....

I wonder if he took that same tone with the Spider-Girl fans.

'Omega Flight fans must be stopped'...@$$

[Ben]

Okay. Lots of Tom bashing here. I know you dont know Tom and its easy to take what he says and change it to mean what you would like it to mean, but I promise you he is not being a jerk or whatever. There is a context for everything and you dont have the whole picture. Please stop the Tom bashing.
If he deserved it I would be silent:)
M!

I can certainly agree here Mike, especially since we have a "no bashing" rule here, and I'm just as guilty this time as anyone else. I had my dander up, . I'm still pretty ticked off about the untrue comments he made in his blog, and I don't think that there are many ways to mistaken what he said, but that doen't mean we have to bash the man. So I for one will not comment on the man himsle, only on what he has said, and I ask that everyone do the same.

Ben (taking the higher ground)

[cmdrkoenig67]

Good for you, Ben....

I, on the other hand...Had to tell Mr Byr..Er..I mean, Mr Brevoort how I feel.

Dana :wink:

[Mokole]

Ah, well, thanks for chiming in Mr. Oeming. From some personal, albeit distance, experience, I know that when people do rants like that they either are as angry as they sound or really misinformed.

Still sounds to me like he was misinformed. The letters and emails aren't angry or hate-filled, they aren't going to the wrong people either. I still think someone didn't want to read the mail and whined to him about it, misinforming him. After all, I really doubt he has any direct knowlege about Save the Flight. Not his department or book title to edit.

[Guardian]

Uh.., ok I'll be nice from now on. I probably shouldn't have called him a punk or whatever I did, but I still don't agree with his comments. People do need to do research before going after someone. (Including myself)

[DelBubs]

Good old Scratchy made a comment in the Joe Q thread:

"I have an odd question; over at Marvel.com Tom Brevoort has come out pretty strongly against Save the Flight, a campaign to increase the sales of Omega Flight months before it's launch and turn it into an ongoing.

Why be against increasing sales of a Marvel comic??

Were people against increasing the sales of Spider-Girl too, and public about it?"


KM, do you have a link to that, I've just read through the latest 'Joe Fridays' and can't find any reference to it?


Okay. Lots of Tom bashing here. I know you dont know Tom and its easy to take what he says and change it to mean what you would like it to mean, but I promise you he is not being a jerk or whatever. There is a context for everything and you dont have the whole picture. Please stop the Tom bashing.
If he deserved it I would be silent:)
M!
I can fully understand what your saying here Mike, but surely that should be reciprocal?

I think the majority of the responses here have been mild considering. We fully expected an ongoing series created by a top notch team. The rug was pulled from underneath us. We could have really gone off the deep end, but rallied behind the book, promised to buy and promote the limited and hope it becomes an ongoing. All Ben did was set up an organised way for fans to show to Marvel that there is support out there, all Tom Breevort seems to have done is once again show Flight fans how little Marvel think of them and the books they support.

"Omega Flight Fans Must Be Stopped" was the opening to the blog. How about a private mail to Ben outlining what he said in the blog instead of going public with it?

"Protestors need to take their cues from the SPIDER-GIRL fans. Now, those cats are organized, and intelligent about what they do,". Where as Omega Flight fans are... What? Mr Breevort. He may not say it, but the implication is there.

"And they don't just whine about it, as most of these fan protestors do--they go out there and get the job done." From what Ben says, the mails to Marvel that have been through him have been anything but whiney. Still it does show just how pathetic us Flight fans are, can't organise intelligently and whiney as well, and all in the public domain so the rest of fandom can point at us at conventions and shake their heads in pity.

"And let's get real here, guys: it doesn't matter how many times you say it, if you care enough about OMEGA FLIGHT to send in an irate, venom-filled letter, then you're not going to not buy it simply because it's a limited series. It's ridiculous to believe we're likely to be bullied or intimidated by so transparent a threat." Mr Breevort may have recieved mails like that, but having known Ben through his AF work for nearly 10 years, if he says none of the mails that have passed through the Save The Flight site have been like that, then that's what I believe.

I totally agree that bad mouthing Tom Breevort is not the way to respond, but I hardly think the tone of of the blog served any other purpose than to alienate us a little bit more and upset a lot of people who have been supportive of Flight books since their inception.

Edited to add : Found this interesting from the latest 'Joe Friday's'
"Q: “:packy4778” - I'm biting my nails in anticipation for the return of Alan Davis and the ClanDestine!! (FF: The End is great too!) Any details you can drop about the relaunch? (Is it a mini? Ongoing? And will you re-release the original Alan issues in a gorgeous hardcover? PLEASE???)

JQ: ClanDestine is being planned as a series of limited series, in order to give Alan the lead time he needs to be able to write and pencil each issue. We’ll be making an announcement as to when the first issue will be released once we get closer. And yes, the plan is to collect the original issues at the same time. "

Now don't get me wrong, I love Clandestine to bits, but it gets a series of limiteds compared to OF's one. Clandestine which lasted 12 isssues in it's own series, four of which were a bad 'Dallas' shower scene moment, a two part limited series with the X-Men and not much else, unless anyone cares to enlighten me. This weighed against the Flight teams that have 162 title issues, two X-Men limiteds and numerous other appearences.

Just to enphasise this, I am not knocking ClanDestine, but it's little wonder that some Flight fans get a little irate when they feel they are being kneecapped and then called out as bullies and of below average intelligence.

[varo]

some of his comments were uncalled for and seem like they stem from frustration of getting so many letters.

but heck, he posted a whole blog, which is pretty popular, on our fight for the series.

willingly or not, he got the series publicity.

we win!


btw, that silvestri art colored is unreal.

[-K-M-]

KM, do you have a link to that, I've just read through the latest 'Joe Fridays' and can't find any reference to it?

Naaaa it hasn't made the main Joe Q questions, he asked it in the main thread where readers post questions and then Joe answers them in his main interview.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=99093&page=12

[DelBubs]

Thanks KM, I wonder if it'll get a response :?: :?

[Corvus]

Okay. Lots of Tom bashing here. I know you dont know Tom and its easy to take what he says and change it to mean what you would like it to mean, but I promise you he is not being a jerk or whatever. There is a context for everything and you dont have the whole picture. Please stop the Tom bashing.
If he deserved it I would be silent:)
M!

Sorry Mr O, but we can only judge Tom by the way he presents himself to the public. And frankly, he's presented himself in an immature, unprofessional manner thats bad for both Marvel and potentially for sales of Omega Flight.

His evident contempt for his customers is making me reconsider whether or not I want to spend my money on any Marvel products in the future. I would think someone who is a professional Editor could at least be bothered to get their facts correct before they had a public tantrum.

[Obsidian3d]

While I was unable to read the post on Tom's blog (site was unavailable at the time), there have been several quotes posted here that are less than what I'd call professional. I'll not comment on them beyond that, because of my not having read the article.

I will say however that most of the people associated with this website have been at least (mostly) polite in voicing their opinions and disappointment over the recent treatment of Alpha Flight and the upcoming Omega Flight. I can't speak for other fans on other sites and how they behave, because I simply don't know! But, the simple fact is that if you don't respect your customers, eventually you'll lose them. We're simply trying to show Marvel that they have our support for Omega Flight. Bad mouthing us in any way is certainly unprofessional, regardless of who it comes from within the company. The same can be said of us stating our own opinions towards the company and their creators.

We simply want to be treated fairly and with respect, which I think a lot of us feel we haven't gotten lately. I would cite New Avengers #16 as a good example, which was followed by the total lack of explanation of what exactly happened or WHO died in that issue. Rather we got veiled hints and tongue-in-cheek promises about what was coming. That was eventually revealed to be an ONGOING series entitled Omega Flight. And of course we were all very excited about the news.

Soon thereafter we find out through the solicitation for Omega Flight that it's been downsized to a 5 issue mini series. Financial decisions aside, I for one don't feel that I'm being treated fairly as a fan of Alpha and Omega or as a customer...which will translate into me me buying less Marvel material. Truth is that the only thing I plan on buying for the foreseeable future will be Omega Flight. If that only lasts five issues, well so be it.

[DelBubs]

If we're going to be brutally honest here, then I think it's wise to point out that the 'Save the Flight' people and supporters, probably come, in the majority, from here and 'The Alpha Flight Message Boards'. A hardcore of about 150 (if that). We are that fanatical that we constantly buy the product and fight for it's survival, even when presented with the abomination that was Vol 3. To the rest of comicdom we must look pretty pathetic, clamouring for a glimpse of what made AF so special in the first place.

I mean, we even accepted Lobdell here, even after he described AF as '3rd Rate Avengers Wannabee's', because we wanted to see ' the 'Alpha Flight' legend on the cover of a comic.

150/200 people don't make a lot of difference to a company like Marvel. Our sales or lack of won't make a bit of difference. They do know however, that no matter how Mr Breevort portrays us, come April, we'll all be there to pick up x amount of 'Omega Flight #1'.

There use to be a time when hardcore fans where appreciated, now they are a subject of ridicule, fanboys, celler dwellers etc. I can live with that, but still I get bent out of sake over AF. It's just unfortunate that Mr Breevort couldn't realise that there was nothing intended by the 'so called' venomous e-mails he got (not from 'Save the Flight'), but the need for Flight fans to have something to look forward to each month. I'll still be there in April to pick up #1. It's just unfortunate that it will be tempered with the realisation that my support of the book is considered such an irritation.

[Mokole]

I have to agree Del. Most of Fight for the Flight support comes from us but then it would, as most internetters will find this site easily.

But the interest we generate will help. People will buy the book who are Alpha Flight fans. USAgent fans and Beta Ray Bill fans will too. New readers who want a Canadian hero team (can't beat having Guardian images to show around!). OK, Arachne fans won't add up to much but they help. Oeming fans, Kolins fans, art fans, hero fans.

I'd be surprised if the April release doesn't sell 50,000. If the book is as good as we think, it'll sell like that for months. The art will be excellent, Oeming should deliver the goods on the stories. I have faith that we will like it and so wll tens of thousands of others. Will Marvel care, really?

After all, we bought v3 to get it converted to a serious book, not loony. I myself sent several letters and emails over the 12 issues expressing just that sentiment, and made posts about it too.

Omega Flight has a much better chance except that it's not an ongoing, now that's where our Fight begins, not a change of direction. Bendis, Millar, Schmidt, Cebulski are known to support Oeming's work, that helps. We're not crying out in the wilderness.

Cheers, Everyone!

[Ben]

Yes, at this point it is mostly us hardcore fans, however, that won't be the case for long. That's why I wanted to have everything in place early, ready for when it hits the shelves, and there is an influx of people who loved what they read and want more. If he thinks the emails are annoying now, just wait 'till April! ;)

Ben

[Le Messor]

I remember Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. In that novel, there were two distinct police agencies side-by-side in the city, had been for several years.

They didn't know about each other.

Which gets me wondering; were Tom Brevoort's comments about Fight For The Flight? He never mentioned specifically. And what he described wasn't Ben's site.

Consider: I don't know how true this is, but:
Tom Brevoort got a lot of venomous, anti-Marvel letters about the mini-fying of Omega.
Tom Brevoort got a lot of letters from Fight For The Flight about the mini-fying of Omega.
If both these statements are true, could you really blame him for confusing the two?


That said, two words: Customer Relations.

Call it bashing if you will, but his blog post sucks at that.
Tact, diplomacy; there's ways to say what you want to say without alienating your customer base and looking immature.

"Please don't send hate-filled emails." is one suggestion.

(My pun-ished mind also gets amused when he pans our 'venom-filled' letters, and praises Spidergirl; led, apparently, by 'Venom'. :) I amuse easily. Ooh, shiny thing.)

- Le Messor
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[SephirothsKiller]

Mike, you've been really been a class act on these boards, so I'll honor your request to not do any Brevoort bashing and give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's a really nice guy and just has trouble communicating or temper issues.

I will however say that this is what his comments meant to me:

It does sadden me when editors feel entitled to mock every hardcore fan of a series. We all have lives outside of these boards and this fandom and while we and enjoy the stories of Alpha Flight and are eagerly looking forward to Omega Flight, it is in no way essential to the lives of anybody on the boards. The successful sales of marvel comics is however essential to the livelihood of people such as Mr. Brevoort. This is not to say I begrudge him for taking for granted the hardcore fanbase, in a world where it is ten times more expensive to get new customers than to keep old customers it must seem nice to know that there is a section of the population you can rely on. In the case of Alpha fans we make up only a small section of marvel's hardcore fanbase, and they could easily ignore us. We are not important, and I understand this, comics is after all about the business first and the art second. What I do not understand is the pejorative use which "hardcore" has come to attain in the comics industry. In the past I thought that the word was seen as a negative only by those who scorned comics as something read by geeks, but now it seems like the word is being made mocked by the very people who subsist off the industry. This saddens me, as I personally have always regarded the word "hardcore" as being synonymous with "loyal." When did loyalty become a pejorative?

- Peace.

[Le Messor]

When did loyalty become a pejorative?

On the 12th of August, 1976. There was a memo.

[SmurfInABlender]

well guys.. this did it, took me this long to come out from being a reader of these forums to well one who posts.

Let me give you a background of myself for those of you who don't knwo me, which is well, everyone.

I was always an X-men cartoon fan as a kid but never got into comics, though I picked up the Ultimate Guide to the X-men last april. Never really reading comics i thought hey.. I have an entire summer before i venture off to college and I won't have much to do, lets see if I find any comics interesting. So I picked up a couple graphic novels at the book store (Legion of Superheroes, Green Lantern/Green Arrow) But I continued to read through the Guide to X-men characters when I came upon two interesting Ideas. Excaliber and Alpha Flight. In reading about these teams I was intreegued, but more by this Canadian team then the British team. Therefore i went on ebay an got the first 22 comics of volume 1. I fell inlove. I now, less then a year later, have read volume 2, sifted through volume three even though i hated it. and am now on 64 of volume 1. I have become a hardcore Alpha Flight Fan and I just got into comics.

I already have noticed when a company does not beleive the title is to do well or is doing well they mix names to get recognition (I noticed this when Supergirl joined the Legion of Superheroes.. that is also when i stopped buying the title) But Omega Flight? I have never been a Captain America Fan but what I've read about U.S. Agent I love his more rebelious tendency. and Archne seems more interesting and less of a joke then "spider-girl" or "supergirl" or any of those "lets turn a popular character into a woman and see what we can make from it"

Yes this comment made by Tom won't stop me from buying Omega Flight, or Multiple Issues of Omega Flight. But Being new to Comics I have been wanting to stop buying old comics (I'm reading Namor and Alpha flight as of late and have read plenty of Graphic novels) and start buying new titles in order to help the comic industry. Here is the thing... after reading that, I feel less connected to Marvel as a whole. Where as I want to read Omega Flight I will look for new titles from other places rather then Marvel. So here is the problem with his alienation. Yes it won't hurt Omega Flight in the long run it might even help it. Though, This will hurt sales on other products that I'm not so fond of. Guess its off to read Checkmate...

A New But Already Hardcore Fan,
-Jonathan

[-K-M-]

Excellent post SmurfInABlender, and welcome to the board.

[Switchgearman]

As usual, here I come jumping in late...

Wow! Seems like a lot has gone on recently & the responses from Tom B's blog is just amazing.

Top marks to Delbubs for his excellent & well-constructed analysis of AND response to Tom's blog - I think few could've said it better.

Additionally, I just have to respond to Tom's comments about people buying an ongoing series or limited series, i.e.:
"... if you care enough about OMEGA FLIGHT to send in an irate, venom-filled letter, then you're not going to not buy it simply because it's a limited series."

I think this misses the point completely. The fact of the matter is, we die-hard AF fans want an ongoing series. We want to be able to enjoy our fave super-team month after month after month, not just for 4 months (i.e., that's the time span between 5 issues). It is also about our passion for collecting & more specifically, collecting comics.

It is fine & an absolutely collectible & highly desirable mini-series when it's a mega event & is finite or somewhat finite story-wise. Like Civil War. Like Justice. Like Marvels. But if it's about a team of superheroes with no major event going on, then a limited series just doesn't cut it for an AF fan & a comic collector. Other than partly satisfying our rabid need for AF (I'd have to say barely), what is the point of releasing a LS (from the fans' perspective). Testing the water to see if it can justify itself as an ongoing? If it's a LS with no major event or consequences to the other Marvel characters, who would buy except the die-hard fans? How does that work in testing the water? Making a few bucks for Marvel? That I understand. How about making a few bucks for Marvel month after month after month?

I think Mr. Tom Brevoort is probably doing what he can with what he's been given but as of now, he belongs to the Hall of Totally Missing the Point.

[SmurfInABlender]

some one on a budget might buy it, I mean I bought the entire Union Jack miniseries because it looked interesting and would be a good read.. I wouldn't mind if that became ongoing either.. but you know

[Banshee]

Seems to me that Marvel publishes in a democracy. Deleting Bens response is just plain rude. TB can respond, but delete?? Ben's response was not offensive.

Marvel seems to be taking on a Civil War 'mindset'. Will I have to register as a law abiding, God fearing good christian family man to read their books or comment on their blogs????

Ridiculouso(as Hermione Grainger might say).

[Ben]

Mr. Tom Brevoort and I have exchanged a few emails, we were able to explain a few things civilly to each other. He explained that much of what he said was tongue in cheek, and I explained a few of my points. We are playing nice with each other, please everyone do the same.

Lets continue to support the title. At this stage I ask that you all please inquire at you local comic shop(s) as to if they are willing to include a flyer with sales of marvel comics leading up to Omega, and if they are willing to display a poster or two (or ten) in their shops. I will have that material available to print off in the next week or so, I'm just waiting to see if Andy Schmidt is able to dig up something for me to use, or if I'll have to use images already released.

My weekly interview series with Oeming featuring a new character each week will be starting soon also.

Ben

[-K-M-]

My weekly interview series with Oeming featuring a new character each week will be starting soon also.

Ben

Like how they revealed members from New Avengers? Oh baby, when does this start Ben?

[Legerd]

Mr. Tom Brevoort and I have exchanged a few emails, we were able to explain a few things civilly to each other. He explained that much of what he said was tongue in cheek, and I explained a few of my points. We are playing nice with each other, please everyone do the same. Ben

Glad to hear things are smoothed out, but I wish the folks at Marvel would take AF (or in this case OF) more seriously. At the same time it would be nice if they took us fans a little more seriously as well. You don't tweak someone's nose after pissing them off.


Lets continue to support the title. At this stage I ask that you all please inquire at you local comic shop(s) as to if they are willing to include a flyer with sales of marvel comics leading up to Omega, and if they are willing to display a poster or two (or ten) in their shops. I will have that material available to print off in the next week or so, I'm just waiting to see if Andy Schmidt is able to dig up something for me to use, or if I'll have to use images already released.Ben

Done and done.


My weekly interview series with Oeming featuring a new character each week will be starting soon also.

Cool! This is what I've been waiting for. :D

[Flightpath07]

Okay, I came in kinda late on this topic, cuz i started my own thread on this elsewhere, which you can see here...

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1910

http://forum.alphaflight.net/viewtopic.php?t=1910


Anyhoo, a few responses to get off my proverbial chest...(with no venom, of course!)


Obsidian 3D said,

But, the simple fact is that if you don't respect your customers, eventually you'll lose them. We're simply trying to show Marvel that they have our support for Omega Flight. Bad mouthing us in any way is certainly unprofessional, regardless of who it comes from within the company. The same can be said of us stating our own opinions towards the company and their creators.
We simply want to be treated fairly and with respect, which I think a lot of us feel we haven't gotten lately. I would cite New Avengers #16 as a good example, which was followed by the total lack of explanation of what exactly happened or WHO died in that issue. Rather we got veiled hints and tongue-in-cheek promises about what was coming. That was eventually revealed to be an ONGOING series entitled Omega Flight. And
of course we were all very excited about the news.
Soon thereafter we find out through the solicitation for Omega Flight that it's been downsized to a 5 issue mini series. Financial decisions aside, I for one don't feel that I'm being treated fairly as a fan of Alpha and Omega or as a customer...which will translate into me me buying less Marvel material. Truth is that the only thing I plan on buying for the foreseeable future will be Omega Flight. If that only lasts five issues, well so be it.

It is always about respect, isn't it? Tom's comments lacked that respect. Yet he still expects us to buy the comic?! Well, perhaps he knows us too well, as fans, and knows he can bash us and mash us and anger us, and we will still buy the comic. He's right. But that does not make his comments, or his tone, correct. Shameful is what it was, really.

As for lack of respect in the death of AF...we accepted it, because it was leading to a new monthly series. In the end, that was taken form us, and replaced with what i am sure will be a kick-butt five issue mini-series, however was it really fair to us fans or even necessary to kill off our favourite heroes, disrespectfully, just to launch a mini-series? No disrespect intended to Mr Oeming and crew...but that is just wrong on so many levels!

And I , too, will not be buying any more Marvel titles for the foreseeable future, other than Omega Flight. A company that treats me disrespectfully, does not get my business. Mr Oeming treats us all with respect here, so I will support him and his work - but nothing else that is Marvel. That is not anger talking, that is me fighting back as a consumer with all that I have - my money. And my money will go to a myriad of good independant comic book companies now, rather than to a bunch of Marvel titles. Until such time as Marvel head office makes a turn-around in the way that they treat their customers, Make Mine Somebody Else. And again, that is not anger talking - just common sense, and my own humble opinion.


DelBubs said,

If we're going to be brutally honest here, then I think it's wise to point out that the 'Save the Flight' people and supporters, probably come, in the majority, from here and 'The Alpha Flight Message Boards'. A hardcore of about 150 (if that). We are that fanatical that we constantly buy the product and fight for it's survival, even when presented with the abomination that was Vol 3. To the rest of comicdom we must look pretty pathetic, clamouring for a glimpse of what made AF so special in the first place.
I mean, we even accepted Lobdell here, even after he described AF as '3rd Rate Avengers Wannabee's', because we wanted to see ' the 'Alpha Flight' legend on the cover of a comic. 150/200 people don't make a lot of difference to a company like Marvel. Our sales or lack of won't make a bit of difference. They do know however, that no matter how Mr Breevort portrays us, come April, we'll all be there to pick up x amount of 'Omega Flight #1'.
There use to be a time when hardcore fans where appreciated, now they are a subject of ridicule, fanboys, celler dwellers etc. I can live with that, but still I get bent out of sake over AF. It's just unfortunate that Mr Breevort couldn't realise that there was nothing intended by the 'so called'
venomous e-mails he got (not from 'Save the Flight'), but the need for Flight fans to have something to look forward to each month.
I'll still be there in April to pick up #1. It's just unfortunate that it will be tempered with the realisation that my support of the book is considered such an irritation.

A well thought out thought there. It's true, there are not enough AF fans out there, making noise, to get Marvel at this time to go for an ongoing series. So, should we give up? NO! But we have to accept that the concept needs to change, in order to get new people onboard. That is what they are tryin got do with OF.
Again, a respect issue. Show us respect, as we support you. Listen to us, as we support you both monetarily and by getting behind what you are doing.
Why treat us like dirt? Why? It makes no sense...

Irritation indeed!



SmurfInABlender said,

But Being new to Comics I have been wanting to stop buying old comics (I'm reading Namor and Alpha flight as of late and have read plenty of Graphic novels) and start buying new titles in order to help the comic industry. Here is the thing... after reading that, I feel less connected to Marvel as a whole. Where as I want to read Omega Flight I will look for new titles from other places rather then Marvel.

Well said, Smurf. Less-connected. As is, Marvel seems to be less connecte dot its fans than it used to be. Mr Oeming has no trouble connecting with his fans, so maybe that disconnectedness only is happening in the upper echelons of Marvel, but it is still there in black and white for us to read...We are not wanted by Mr Brevoot. He don't like us. We annoy him. He wants us to go away. He has evolved into a higher being, and puny mortals like us cannot understand his higher ways...blah blah blah. Kinda sickening, ain't it?



Ben said,

Mr. Tom Brevoort and I have exchanged a few emails, we were able to explain a few things civilly to each other. He explained that much of what he said was tongue in cheek, and I explained a few of my points. We are playing nice with each other, please everyone do the same.


Ben,
With all due respect, and respect you I do...I notice you are not, so far, sharing those emails with the rest of us...
I can see that you are trying hard to "play nice" with Mr Brevoot, who somewhat holds our fate in his hands.
I can also guess that you are not sharing the emails, because you know they would not satisfy us. The respect is still not there, is it? And no apology, either?

Sigh...

Yay, Alpha Flight is dead. Yahoo.
Now somebody wants to wipe out us AF-believers. First they crush our dreams, then they crush our ability to dream...

Man...nothing more to say on this topic. Nothing more to say.

Sigh...

[Adam]

First they crush our dreams, then they crush our ability to dream...

While I think Mr. Brevoort's blog post lacked tact and could easily be read as offensive to us die-hards, statements like this freak me out a bit. I think we need to step back and breathe sometimes, because if I was a creator / editor at Marvel I'd be very hesitant about interfacing with fans when such weighty, grandiose statements are being thrown about.

I know we're all emotionally invested in these characters, but in the end of the day it's a comic book, not a human rights issue. Whatever Marvel says or does we've got to keep that in perspective.

[SmurfInABlender]

The real question is when will the interview about guardian come out?!

[Flightpath07]

statements like this freak me out a bit

Simply put, we all want to support OF, in the hope that (a) it is a good comic and enjoyable to collect/read (which it appears that it will be), and (b) that said support might be enough to interest Marvel in an ongoing monthly series.
Mr Brevoort's posting regarding AF/OF fans and their opinions...does this give you any hope that he is interested in listening to us? It seems to me that his opinion is already made up, and only overwhelming sales is going to change that.
Since it has already been stated that we 150-200 fans really cannot change Marvel's mind, we really are not enough in the long run to matter (I know, nobody likes to hear that, but it is still truth), we have to rely on enough people picking up this limited series that creates enough fan interest to change the mind of Marvel and Tom Brevoort. This is the same Tom Brevoort, who by his very comments on his blog on Marvel.com, seems to be rather disinterested in hearing from fans, being bothered by fans, being emailed by fans, and does apparently no research on anything fans do or say.
Say what you will, this is NOT the best of situations.
I am not meaning to be a "downer" here, but I am trying to be a realist. We support OF because it is, in part, AF. And we all love AF, so we want to (and hopefully will) love OF. We do what we do, because of our love for the characters and the setting.
But we have no, or next-to-no pull, with the big companies that run things. Sure, we have good caring people like Mr Oeming, whom mutual affection between us flows - he cares about AF/OF, and about us fans, so of course we support and care for him. We want him to succeed. We want OF to succeed. Most of us will buy OF without any questions asked (I have already placed an online order for two copies of OF Issue 1). Because, as fans, that is what we do.
But our love and support for the characters - does Tom Brevoort care about that? Does he feel for the characters as we do?
Where does this leave us?
I think it leaves us where we already were, really; it leaves us, the fans, eageraly awaiting the new 5 issue mini-series, supporting it as best we know how, mourning for the dearly-departed AF characters, and knowing that come issue number 5 of OF, only a major miracle will see us doing anything after that other than waiting and hoping and organizing, trying desperately to keep the dream alive. Because that is what we do. Because we are fans. It is what we always do.

[Uncle Toxie]

Just read the new New Joe Friday's over at Newsarama, thought you all would be interested to see this:

Q: “Scratchy” - I have an odd question; over at Marvel.com, Tom Brevoort has come out pretty strongly against “Save the Flight”, a campaign to increase the sales of Omega Flight months before it's launch and turn it into an ongoing.

Why be against increasing sales of a Marvel comic??

Were people against increasing the sales of Spider-Girl too, and public about it?

JQ: Scratchy, I’ve seen the blog posting that got some Alpha Flight fans upset and I have to tell you, I found nothing wrong with it and believe that people are reading things into it that aren’t there. First he offered up advice on the best way to send your message and he even gave cautionary tales. In many ways he gave you guys a call to arms and posed a challenge. If anything it should have inspired the Alpha Flight faithful as he laid a pretty clear roadmap for what can be done to have Omega Flight become an ongoing, I mean he sights examples of things that worked and didn’t work. I don’t see what’s wrong with telling people that something they’re doing isn’t the most efficient way to go about it, especially when constructive ideas are presented as an alternative. He’s asking AF fans to focus their energies on what will make a difference. He also mentioned that there were some not so friendly letters from the AF group to which some took exception except that I was shown a smattering of some of these and I completely understand what he was talking abut.

So, it’s very clear to me that Tom, nor anyone here at Marvel, is against any saving AF campaign or any other campaign, he was just suggesting a better way to skin a cat. That to me is a far cry from saying don’t do anything at all because we don’t care.

The answer is quite simple, and this is something that Spider-Girl fans have proven time and time again. When their title is threatened, they go out in force and keep it alive through word of mouth that adds up to selling power! That’s the challenge, nothing more nothing less. And for those who are concerned, YES, YES, YES, trade paperback sales are considered greatly in the equation.

[Mokole]

Well, nice too to see the cover image included with the response. In the coming two weeks I'm anticipating a lot of news and things to discuss, all good I hope.

If the weather is OK I may even pop into a comic shop and offer up what Ben does for advertising OF :wink:

[mreeez]

Q: “Scratchy” - I have an odd question; over at Marvel.com, Tom Brevoort has come out pretty strongly against “Save the Flight”, a campaign to increase the sales of Omega Flight months before it's launch and turn it into an ongoing.

Why be against increasing sales of a Marvel comic??

Were people against increasing the sales of Spider-Girl too, and public about it?

JQ: Scratchy, I’ve seen the blog posting that got some Alpha Flight fans upset and I have to tell you, I found nothing wrong with it and believe that people are reading things into it that aren’t there. First he offered up advice on the best way to send your message and he even gave cautionary tales. In many ways he gave you guys a call to arms and posed a challenge. If anything it should have inspired the Alpha Flight faithful as he laid a pretty clear roadmap for what can be done to have Omega Flight become an ongoing, I mean he sights examples of things that worked and didn’t work. I don’t see what’s wrong with telling people that something they’re doing isn’t the most efficient way to go about it, especially when constructive ideas are presented as an alternative. He’s asking AF fans to focus their energies on what will make a difference. He also mentioned that there were some not so friendly letters from the AF group to which some took exception except that I was shown a smattering of some of these and I completely understand what he was talking abut.

So, it’s very clear to me that Tom, nor anyone here at Marvel, is against any saving AF campaign or any other campaign, he was just suggesting a better way to skin a cat. That to me is a far cry from saying don’t do anything at all because we don’t care.

The answer is quite simple, and this is something that Spider-Girl fans have proven time and time again. When their title is threatened, they go out in force and keep it alive through word of mouth that adds up to selling power! That’s the challenge, nothing more nothing less. And for those who are concerned, YES, YES, YES, trade paperback sales are considered greatly in the equation.

Spinspinspin

[Ben]

Well, nice too to see the cover image included with the response. In the coming two weeks I'm anticipating a lot of news and things to discuss, all good I hope.

If the weather is OK I may even pop into a comic shop and offer up what Ben does for advertising OF :wink:

Yes, it's at the point now where the infrastructure is in place, and it's time for fans to start mobilizing once I get the promotional material done. Andy said he's be getting back to me early in the week with anything he can offer up, but in his words:
"Most of the art I have is spoken for, so I'll see if there's anything
else I can give to you."

Otherwise, we've gotten enough material that I can certainly put something good together. I've got a couple other things in the works that I'm not able to discuss at this point, but if they come to fruition, I'll fill you all in. I've made certain changes to the email form, it now gets queued for my approval, and I can edit out anything inappropriate before having it delivered to Marvel. In discussions I had with Quesada, he quoted some pieces of emails that when you put it all in a pile could be considered rude, though from a fan's perspective it appears more frustrated, but I can understand how they could be seen that way.

So but the end of the week I'll have promotional stuff one way or an other, and we can mobilize on our comic shops.

Ben

[Adam]

statements like this freak me out a bit
I am not meaning to be a "downer" here, but I am trying to be a realist. We support OF because it is, in part, AF. And we all love AF, so we want to (and hopefully will) love OF. We do what we do, because of our love for the characters and the setting.

I wasn't referring to your assessment of the situation Flightpath, I was merely warning against voicing overly dramatic responses to these setbacks (the "crush our ability to dream" thing) . The Tom incident has brought that out in some of us. Your response now was levelheaded, so don't think this is directed at you...

...but what I was getting at was this:

I deal with artists and "celebrity" types all the time, mainly in the music industry but I think it applies here. It's very easy as an audience member to take the actions and statements of these individuals overly personal. Since good art should connect on an emotional level it's not surprising that it often gets an emotional response. If you're trying to really get a good dialogue going with one of these folks the worst thing you can do is turn their actions around at them in an overly sentimental or emotional way. That's a fan perspective, but it's not their perspective and it's not how they communicate in their day-to-day lives.

Sticking with music as an example, let's say a band really connects with someone, but 5 years later does something that deeply offends that fan. It happens all the time (IE: a once proudly independent band signs with a major label). The worst way to approach that is to get angry and throw it in the band's face. If you're conducting an interview, the worst thing to do is get emotional about it, because that only sets up the expectation that you can't be reasoned with. Chances are, in those 5 years the band has lived and changed like all people do. There's a good story behind it that only very reasonable, respectful discussion will bring about. If you want to get that you have to stop acting like a fan and take a cool head. Give the benefit of the doubt.

It applies here too. If Tom B (or Oeming or Quesada or anyone else) does something that we're offended by, I see no value in proclaiming the "death of a dream" or demanding some theatrical public apology. Stepping back, calming down, and approaching the person like a reasonable individual is what's going to get a reasonable response.

[Guardian]

The real question is when will the interview about guardian come out?!
exactly! :D

[SephirothsKiller]

Ben,
With all due respect, and respect you I do...I notice you are not, so far, sharing those emails with the rest of us...


Well, generally one doesn't release the contents of a private correspondence... Regardless of one party's wishes it just isn't done because its rude to the other party involved in the correspondence, so unless both parties were like "Lets show everybody our emails!" (quick! Get the kids out of the room!) it would be a serious breach of etiquette/trust to do so.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I agree, there is no need for us to see the emails between Ben and Mr Brevoort.

Flightpath...You're quote...


It is always about respect, isn't it? Tom's comments lacked that respect. Yet he still expects us to buy the comic?! Well, perhaps he knows us too well, as fans, and knows he can bash us and mash us and anger us, and we will still buy the comic. He's right. But that does not make his comments, or his tone, correct. Shameful is what it was, really.

That's a bit of a generalization....Comics lose fans all the time, especially when a company is not giving those fans what they want. I've seen posters on other boards, who've lost interest in buying certain books (whether it be for DC or Marvel), even though they've been long-time buyers of those books. DC nearly lost me with the last Doom Patrol series (by John Byrne)...A series that rebooted the original Doom Patrol, however...It lacked the spirit/soul of what made the original DP great. In fact, it was (in my opinion and many other DP fans' opinions) not very good (not unlike the last series of Alpha).

Dana

[Switchgearman]

To all of you out there who've read Tom's blog, Ben's original response & have been following this thread, I think Ben has conducted himself with a lot of dignity, intelligence & grace throughout it all. Not many people would've reacted so well moreso when the criticisms laid on one is very incorrect & unfounded.

So, pls join me in giving him a hearty round of applause...

Obviously we don't know what's been communicated between Ben & TB but I'm still unsure about it being "tongue-in-cheek". I've re-read the blog again with this in mind after seeing Ben's note above & I'm sorry to say that, you can read his blog in many ways but tongue-in-cheek ain't one of 'em. So, at least to me & probably to many others out there, it just doesn't wash.

I'm hopeful for OF, that it will take off. But realistically speaking & sadly so, I see mainly hardcore fans buying them with a small percentage of newcomers jumping in. I do wonder how many of us are out there & I do fear there won't be enough of us.

There've also been a lot of criticisms laid on Marvel over this whole incident which I feel, to a high extent, is not fair. Marvel is where they are because they've given a lot of fans hours & hours of enjoyment & thrill over many decades. It doesn't come with disrespect to or of fans. It is merely the conduct & attitude of one or several people within a large company. So, let's keep it in perspective. Don't know about you all but I have to say that since Joe Q took over as EIC, things have never been so good at Marvel for a long long time (although... the X-Men & Uncanny titles had suffered for many years until only recently) with some hits and misses which are inevitable.

Anyway, April & OF #1 release will be bitter-sweet - I'm really really getting impatient to get my hands on it but also sad it's going to be 5 issues only. With a small possibility it'd get an ongoing release.

[Le Messor]

In discussions I had with Quesada, he quoted some pieces of emails that when you put it all in a pile could be considered rude, though from a fan's perspective it appears more frustrated

Which is how Tom's post came across.


So, pls join me in giving him a hearty round of applause...

Applause!


I'm sorry to say that, you can read his blog in many ways but tongue-in-cheek ain't one of 'em. So, at least to me & probably to many others out there, it just doesn't wash.

Yep.


Marvel is where they are because they've given a lot of fans hours & hours of enjoyment & thrill over many decades. It doesn't come with disrespect to or of fans. It is merely the conduct & attitude of one or several people within a large company.

1) Technically, they haven't 'given' us anything ('cept recently, at Free Comic Book Day events). They've SOLD it to us. In return for which, we have given them dollars & dollars of currency & bills over many decades.

2) Those people represent the company. Joe Q's response that there's nothing disrespectful in Tom's post is disrespectful in itself. Rather than listening to us, he tells us we're not insulted by it. My own council will I keep on when I'm insulted.


And they don't just whine about it, as most of these fan protestors do--
it doesn't matter how many times you say it, if you care enough about OMEGA FLIGHT to send in an irate, venom-filled letter, then you're not going to not buy it simply because it's a limited series. It's ridiculous to believe we're likely to be bullied or intimidated by so transparent a threat.

OMEGA FLIGHT to be ordered into stores well, and to make it sell through well. Because that's the bottom line--we're a publisher, and we're in the business of making titles that people want to read. Anything else is just pissing in the wind.

He also called Spider-Girl fans intelligent and organised, with the implication that OF fans are not. So, to him, we're whiners and bullies worth nothing more than whatever money of ours OF gets him. It's honest, I'll give it that. It ain't tongue-in-cheek; at least, there's no way an already 'irate, venom-filled' fan would read the above that way.
Point is, there was a time I felt like Marvel cared about comics. Maybe it was true, once. Stuff like this tells me they care only about money.
And he's telling us: "Give me your money. I don't care about you beyond that." It's right there in the subtext.

That's what fans find unbelievable. That's what fans find disrespectful.
We're people, not wallets. (Okay, maybe Alan. :twisted:)

Oh, that and he didn't think it was worth telling us about the downgrade; we had to find out through solicitations: "New Ongoing! New Ongoing! New Ongoing! Coming soon: 5-issue limited".
How much bitterness would Marvel have deflected if they'd just made an announcement? Especially one that gave us *reasons*!

- Le Messor
"Your subtext is rapidly becoming, uh, text."
- Giles

[Barnacle13]

I've been reading this line and trying to stay neutral. I tend not to wear my feelings on my sleeves, so TB's comments don't bug me a whole lot. We're not doomed here folks. We do have some pull. We do have an opportunity to make our voices heard. We might even be able to change the way us fanboys and girls are looked at a bit. But it'll take intelligent action. Hurt feelings get us nothing. Making Omega Flight a success will. The Fight for the Flight is a simple enough campaign aimed at sales, but as already stated here it won't be enough. We're 150-200 strong! Not enough! What we have to do is get others on board. That means we talk the series up at other sites and get folks to check it out. Get the X-fans, Spidey fans, Shell head fans, etc. and we might win. Get creative! Anything that'll sell another copy and convert another fan is what we're looking for.

I'm currently lobbying for something thusfar unheard of....subscriptions for mini-series. Maybe folks would buy a half year sub. It might seem like less of an investment, both monetarily and emotionally. I'm sure Marvel makes more money when they go direct, than through a dealer. Fans would be able to pick and choose their minis this way, without having to have a comic store nearby, and not having to worry about missing an issue. Can't hurt to try!

So think out of the box! How can we be Marvel's best salesmen of Alpha Flight/Omega Flight? I know lots of you have a bad taste in your mouth. You're not alone! But that taste will only get worse if Brevort is right and our efforts fail to get an ongoing! Show him he's wrong! I'm sure he'll be happy to be proven wrong, but at least we'll get the satisfaction of an ongoing if we do!

[SmurfInABlender]

I actually am very much for subscription of minis aswell, I also thought of maybe a Mini-pack.. where you buy a mini and when it is over it transfers to another mine or something..