Wolverine #55 Preview

[-K-M-]

Heeeeeeere's Wild Child

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=121027

[SephirothsKiller]

Heeeeeeere's Wild Child

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=121027

Ugh, so far it looks like we have:

Sabretooth crying, Sabretooth dying, and Wild Child being responsible for all the crap in Logan's life.

I wanna run up to Loeb and yell "Take it back!!"

[Canucklehead]

Is anyone even enjoying this run? Everyone I know hates it and the posts under the article seem to confirm it. What is the point? I haven't even read an issue but I think I get the jist of it:
Wolverine and all the feral mutants (including Sasquatch!?) are all connected somehow while Sabertooth will probably finally die, but it's ok cause Wild Child is the leaner, meaner, mutiple-ear-ring-wearer that the young kids can relate to, bas ass of the new milenium who, all of a sudden, has ties in a lot more to Wolvie's past then realized which makes him even more bad ass and the rightful heir to his main nemesis now that the big, old, boring Sabertooth has long outlived his "fear factor" and purpose so he and Wolvie will have one last heart to heart before the big guy finally bites it?

That about right?

[-K-M-]

You forgot the part were they all evolved from dogs [lupine] :lol:

Also seems Daken is going to be the new Sabretooth stated in a Lying in the Gutters article. Also seems in the upcoming issues Wolverine becomes brain dead, maybe WC steals the sword and stabs him in the head with it :roll:

[cmdrkoenig67]

Wow....This sounds more and more like a bunch of poo. What are the folks at Marvel thinking?

Dana

[Dfense75]

I love Wolverine. I think most people on some level at least like the character. But for the years I have been collecting I dont read his solo series and this is why. For me anyways hes a great character in a team setting and thats where I enjoy him most. Now hes had some great mini series stories I will say that. But his main book I feel has suffered from this kind of story for a long time. Yes hes a bad ass with a mysterious past. But do we need to connect him with everyone in the Marvel U's past. The man knows practically everyone. Not having a real origin for as long as he did contributed to this trap. Seems like every writer that got their mits on him felt the need to spin their own Wolverine back in the day story. Now that we have his origin lets move the character foward. But what does Loeb do. Brings him right back into the same tired formula and weaves the worst version of his past to date.

[SmurfInABlender]

The artwork isn't bad... everythign else sucks

[DelBubs]

Preview Here (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=121548).

[Canucklehead]

...

hey man, a bit OT here but, do you know who's in that new Iron Spidey suit? I'm a Spidey Fan but not an Innitiative fan.

Thanks 8)

[Dfense75]

...

hey man, a bit OT here but, do you know who's in that new Iron Spidey suit? I'm a Spidey Fan but not an Innitiative fan.

Thanks 8)

In issue #7 1 of the 3 people wearing the spidey suit will be revealed. My money is its gonna be at least one clone of MVP.

[Canucklehead]

In issue #7 1 of the 3 people wearing the spidey suit will be revealed. My money is its gonna be at least one clone of MVP.

Clone!? Spider-Man costume? uh oh.

[SephirothsKiller]

...

hey man, a bit OT here but, do you know who's in that new Iron Spidey suit? I'm a Spidey Fan but not an Innitiative fan.

Thanks 8)

In issue #7 1 of the 3 people wearing the spidey suit will be revealed. My money is its gonna be at least one clone of MVP.

I'm totally banking on one spidey being Chretien.

[Manikin]

Where does it end?
Maybe that the problem, it never does end in the case of these trademark heroes. So many people have had their hands in the development on Wolverine, that each one feels the need to add something new to the mix. Ultimately, it just ruins the character for me.
I liked the Wolverine that just healed, had claws, was dark and brooding and mysterious, better than what he is now.

[Phil]

Hmm... fun and games in this issue. Sabretooth eh?
Wildchild's in it again later but nothing major.

[Phil]

There's a 2nd variant cover shipping for the issue, making 3 covers in total.

[-K-M-]

Oh my lord what a horrible issue.

[Manikin]

I have to wonder how much of that bit with Sabertooth and the anti-healing sword was real and not all just in his head?

I especially liked that last page......."KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!"

[Legerd]

In a word: crap! When I envisioned Sabertooth's death, I always figured he'd go out fighting while screaming obscenities at the top of his lungs, not meekly crying. sigh :roll:

[cmdrkoenig67]

"Sabretooth's last battle with Wolverine" my butt! Marvel will bring him back sooner or later (just as they will Captain America)...And he and Wolvie will be at it again, as usual.

I have the first couple of issues of this storyline and I found them to be just dreadful, horrible, craptacular...Reading the comments here leads me to believe that I'm missing nothing by passing on the rest of the issues. I can save my money for something better.

It's not hard to imagine that this storyline may soon be forgotten by Marvel and they'll move on as if it never happened...It's just a question of when they decide to forget it.

Dana

[Legerd]

You definitely missed out on nothing by avoiding this arc, except for this issue's variant cover.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=122400&page=2

Scroll down a short way to see it.

[Adam]

Can one of you who suffered through this arc to explain this to me:

Was Sasquatch ever definitively tied to this "lupine" race they introduced? If not, what were his motives for being involved in this?

[-K-M-]

Can one of you who suffered through this arc to explain this to me:

Was Sasquatch ever definitively tied to this "lupine" race they introduced? If not, what were his motives for being involved in this?

Nothing was explained why he was there of if he is a lupine

[SephirothsKiller]

Loeb's writing 1/10

Bianchi's art 10/10

[cmdrkoenig67]

Can one of you who suffered through this arc to explain this to me:

Was Sasquatch ever definitively tied to this "lupine" race they introduced? If not, what were his motives for being involved in this?

Nothing was explained why he was there of if he is a lupine

Holy huge plot hole, Mungiman! So...There is really no reason for Walter to even appear in this storyline? Wow...It only gets worse, the more I hear of it.

[Adam]

Maybe that's a good thing... we can all just ignore it now.

[cmdrkoenig67]

YAY!

[DelBubs]

I read the storyline and cannot think of one good reason why Sas was in it. If it was to create the impression that Sas was somehow linked to Lupine mutants than as we all know, thats a load of "Alpha Flight vol 3" (Not allowed to swear :-) ). Also, is anyone else getting P/Oed that whenever Sas meets Sabretooth he gets his butt handed to him. Sas is one of the strongest in the MU with an healing factor and claws every bit as deadly as Sabretooths, but he always ends up in hospital. Total bolloxs.

[Canucklehead]

I read the storyline and cannot think of one good reason why Sas was in it. If it was to create the impression that Sas was somehow linked to Lupine mutants than as we all know, thats a load of "Alpha Flight vol 3" (Not allowed to swear :-) ). Also, is anyone else getting P/Oed that whenever Sas meets Sabretooth he gets his butt handed to him. Sas is one of the strongest in the MU with an healing factor and claws every bit as deadly as Sabretooths, but he always ends up in hospital. Total bolloxs.

I assume that's why they had him in the story. Sasquatch is a decent name in the Mrvel U as a guest. He's pretty damn tough, so if Sabertooth can beat him, Sabertooth must be bad ass. And if Wolvie kills Sabertooth, then Wolvie must be beyond bad ass. Just look for the title of the comic to see who comes out looking the best. If it were a Sasquatch comic, Wolvie'd be the one in the hospital.

I never read the ark so can someone tell me why Sabertooth died the way he did? Did he just give up and let Wolvie decapitate him? Why was he crying? Thanks.

[DelBubs]

The way Sabretooth told Wolverine to "Do it", just before getting decapitated, suggested to me that Sabretooth realised that he was becoming more animal than human and didn't want to lose what was left of his humanity and become totally animalistic.

[Transmetropolitan]

Never mind that he's gone "feral" in the past without turning into an emo wimp.


I'm hardly a big Sabretoth fan...

But for all of the things that make him reprehensible, he was by-god TOUGH.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Right...Many a story has been written where Creed was proud of being more animal than human...He relished slaughtering anyone and anything, if he thought it would be fun. This whole story made no sense.

If Sasquatch is able to lift almost 100 tons (Hulk-class strength), wouldn't he easily be able to rip Sabretooth's arms or head off in a second?

Dana

[DelBubs]

Right...Many a story has been written where Creed was proud of being more animal than human...He relished slaughtering anyone and anything, if he thought it would be fun. This whole story made no sense.

If Sasquatch is able to lift almost 100 tons (Hulk-class strength), wouldn't he easily be able to rip Sabretooth's arms or head off in a second?

Dana

Creed gets off on slaughter, but he's been listening to too much My Chemical Romance and decided that death is better than being animalistic (yea, I really bought into that, not...).

As for Sas, what can I say, Loeb used him for some reason and made him a loser against Sabretooth, although he can theoretically rip him a new one without breaking sweat.

Total twaddle from start to finish.

[rplass]

Can someone double check this fact for me?

Before Wild Child's appearance in this story arc, the previous time we saw him was the re-enactment of his depowerment on M-Day in New Excalibur #9, right?

I'm wondering how he went from tiny, grey, bald, mute and depowered to "The New Sabretooth". Did Romulus fix him up and re-power him?

Love,
rplass

[-K-M-]

If Sasquatch is able to lift almost 100 tons (Hulk-class strength), wouldn't he easily be able to rip Sabretooth's arms or head off in a second?

Dana

Sasquatch is easily class 100, he has lifted that weight many times, and yes yes he should have. He even ko'ed Wolverine in 2 hits in the past.

[Phil]

Ugggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Re-read the storyline today as I found a dead cheap HC.
Even years later it doesn't stand up.

Sas' appearance and beat down by Wild Child.
Whild Child alive in 1942.

Pure pointlessness.

It makes me wonder what roads Way's Origins would have gone down had Loeb not written out Sabretooth and intrdoduced Romulus.

[rplass]

The Wild Child appearance in 1942 was in issue #54. I read and re-read that so many times, and the only way my brain can even come close to not exploding is by latching on to three theories:
1) We're talking about the complete scrambled egg memory of Logan here. It's the most unreliable thing ever. It cannot be taken seriously for even 1 second.
2) Right after the sequence ends... he's aboard T'Challa's plane waking up. It was a dream the whole time
3) It was Romulus taking the form of Wild Child as a placeholder, a device used by the writers to delay having to show Romulus' face for a few more issues

Overall, I'm just not convinced that Kyle was really there in 1942. It just doesn't make sense.

Love,
rplass

[Le Messor]

Time travel?

This was written by Jeph Loeb. The problem I have with him is, he's an average writer - who keeps getting treated like the next ByrneClaremontMille/a/rMoore whoever. He has at least two Absolute Editions to his name (I believe? Hush and Long Hallowe'en), and isn't worth even one; he just isn't that good. He isn't bad, either. Nor does he stand out as sleazy the way the Mills and the Moores do; he really doesn't stand out at all.

And yet, people treat him like a superstar. What's up with that?

- LM
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever."
~ Napolean Bonaparte

[MistressMerr]

This was written by Jeph Loeb. The problem I have with him is, he's an average writer - who keeps getting treated like the next ByrneClaremontMille/a/rMoore whoever.
Not by comic readers, at least not recently. His runs on Wolverine and Ultimates are pretty universally derided as total dreck. And yet... he's still writing Ultimate books and creating legions of stupid red hulks alongside awesome writers like Pak and Van Lente. I don't get it. D:

[suzene]

Not by comic readers, at least not recently. His runs on Wolverine and Ultimates are pretty universally derided as total dreck. And yet... he's still writing Ultimate books and creating legions of stupid red hulks alongside awesome writers like Pak and Van Lente. I don't get it. D:

Not by the more vocal comic readers. For the people who just want disposable entertainment that allows them to turn off their brains and still enjoy, Loeb seems to work just fine, and that's more than enough reason for Marvel to keep hiring the man. The issue I have with Loeb is that turning off the grey matter to enjoy his work seems to be more necessity than option, but I have my own guilty pleasures when it comes to entertainment, so I can't throw too many stones.

[Le Messor]

Like I said, average. Which is no reason to not keep hiring him, but it's really no reason to treat him like a superstar.
Or is he actually dipping toward stupid? I haven't read all that much of his work, so I don't know for sure. Okay, certainly the Wolverine issues of this thread were dumb (cat people are lupine?!? really? You're lumping Sasquatch in with the lupine mutants? (and, yes, that's how I interpret it, and yes, it's that dumb)); and Hush was so mind-numbingly obvious that the only shock for me was that they actually took a vote on who we thought Hush was...

Still, he's no Akiva Goldsman.

- Le Messor
"Go ahead, Giles. Do it. Tell me to kill my sister."
~ Buffy

[MistressMerr]

Like I said, average. Which is no reason to not keep hiring him, but it's really no reason to treat him like a superstar.
Or is he actually dipping toward stupid? I haven't read all that much of his work, so I don't know for sure. Okay, certainly the Wolverine issues of this thread were dumb (cat people are lupine?!? really? You're lumping Sasquatch in with the lupine mutants? (and, yes, that's how I interpret it, and yes, it's that dumb)); and Hush was so mind-numbingly obvious that the only shock for me was that they actually took a vote on who we thought Hush was...

Still, he's no Akiva Goldsman.

- Le Messor
"Go ahead, Giles. Do it. Tell me to kill my sister."
~ Buffy
I've actually read a fair bit of stuff of his that I really liked, but none of it's been in the last five or so years. I know it's probably a really terrible thing to say, because it was obviously a tragedy and crazy sad and would shatter anyone, but I honestly think the death of his son may have broken him as a writer. His Wolverine stuff and Ultimates stuff were not just mediocre, I read a lot of mediocre comics, these were mind-bogglingly bad. I read issue #600 of the Hulk after having completely checked out after Planet Hulk (soooo good) and it's like he's deliberately telling the dumbest stories he can and winkingly knowing that people will eat it up anyway because hey, it's the Hulk.

[Le Messor]

Ooh (wince)... I forgot about that.

It's like Bill Mantlo; we all know how bad his AF run was, but considering his life, you've gotta feel sorry for him - it'd take a complete unprintable with a heart of stone not to. And it does help explain for me why people in the industry -- people who know him, in other words -- are being so supportive.

From my point of view, though, I don't know Jeph Loeb, I don't know his tragedy, I've never met his son and never will. All I can deal with is the stories he produces, and that's what I judge.
So while I do feel sorry for him, I still say he's average at best.

All that said, I'm counting by The Long Hallowe'en (among other things), which I believe predates his son's cancer. A telling example for me was when I read The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told: I came up to the chapter ofThe Long Hallowe'en reproduced therein, I couldn't remember it at all; not even a twinge of familiarity, and I'd bought (and read) The Long Hallowe'en graphic novel not that long before - within a year, I think. A recent issue of the normal series (also in the graphic novel), I still remember well, if only for the Marxist punchline ("There is no sanity clause!").

Hmm... all this comes across like I'm being defensive about what MistressMerr said above, when she wasn't 'attacking'. I'm not, exactly, just laying down my POV within the (new... ish) information.

- Le Messor

[MistressMerr]

The Mantlo comparison's a pretty good one, and it all just comes down tot the point that you can hate on a creator's stuff all you want, but when it becomes a personal thing, it just gets weird and uncomfortable because, hey, they're people too with their own lives and it's not like we really know them (unless that person is Ed Brubaker, because I hate that guy and am also an enormous hypocrite).

But yeah, back to Loeb, his colour stuff for Marvel (Spider:Blue, Daredevil:Yellow, etc.), while extremely overrated, was still really cool, I thought. And his 90s X-stuff! There wasn't a whole lot of it, and it probably falls into that mediocre category you were going on about, but I enjoyed the heck out of it. I think the last thing of his I liked was that Catwoman mini he did, but maybe I'm just biased because I friggin' love Tim Sale's art.

[rplass]

OK Wild Child in 1942 is addressed in his OHOTMU HC #13 entry. There's a little note at the end of his entry that mentions Wolverine's untrustworthy memory (as I suggested) and time travel (as Le Messor suggested) as two possibilities to explain it.

Also I posed a question earlier in this thread about his repowerment. The same entry says that he "lost his mutant powers" but "retained his genetically enhanced abilities". What the heck does that mean? Aren't "mutant powers" the same as "genetically enhanced abilities"? It's an unsatisfying explanation.

Love,
rplass

[MistressMerr]

OK Wild Child in 1942 is addressed in his OHOTMU HC #13 entry. There's a little note at the end of his entry that mentions Wolverine's untrustworthy memory (as I suggested) and time travel (as Le Messor suggested) as two possibilities to explain it.

Also I posed a question earlier in this thread about his repowerment. The same entry says that he "lost his mutant powers" but "retained his genetically enhanced abilities". What the heck does that mean? Aren't "mutant powers" the same as "genetically enhanced abilities"? It's an unsatisfying explanation.

Love,
rplass

Heh, gotta love it when even the handbook people just throw up their hands and admit something makes no sense whatsoever.

As for the powers, Kyle went through all sorts of hinky genetic tinkering by all sorts of people over the years. I guess losing his base mutant powers didn't change all the alterations that had been made TO his mutant powers.

[Mokole]

I guess they mean he kept the abilities that the Secret Society gave him from Wyre.

[Le Messor]

It'd be like Wolverine losing his healing factor and senses, but keeping his adamantium skeleton.

... 'cept it wouldn't probably kill him.

- Le Messor
"Good news. Ten weeks from Friday will be a good day."