Homosexuals Cannot Be Heroes.

[DelBubs]

ZERO. Number of boyfriends Northstar has had since his coming out in 1992.

ZERO. Number of times Northstar has kissed a man.

ZERO. Number of times Northstar has held hands with a man.

THREE. Number of times Northstar has been killed in Marvel Comics.

Taken from here (http://perrymoorestories.com/content/hero.asp?id=superheroes). I know Northstars been killed a lot, but three makes the point just as well :-).

[Trewqp]

This reminds me of star wars, they are trying to introduce a new gay hero in legacy (legacy is the continuation of the star wars series).
his name is goran beviin, and he has a boyfriend named medrit.
If you see that medrit was a female, thats false information, fans of star wars just cannot bear to think that theres gay people in star wars.
Although i kinda agree with them, how can a gay guy be the leader of the mandalorians?
Mandalorians are the toughest most bad ass guys in star wars, these guy fight jedi with swords and kill them.


Although i dont understand northstar's powers, they seem pointless to me.
i mean what would U.S. agent say?

[Dfense75]

Really good article. While homesexuality has become slightly more accepted than it has in the past. Its acceptance is still light years behind where it needs to be. Sadly organized religion and plain old bigotry continue to wage their primitive at best war against this group and plenty of others. I dont want to get to heated here. But I am so sick and tired of special interest groups, governments, religion, and ignorance continuing to seperate and turn the human race against one another.

[Legerd]

Found this (http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/08/04/northstar-a-redshirt-in-every-universe/) over at newsarama.

[XXL]

Although i kinda agree with them, how can a gay guy be the leader of the mandalorians?
Mandalorians are the toughest most bad ass guys in star wars, these guy fight jedi with swords and kill them.

And? I really don't see the point. He's gay so he doesn't know how to fight or to lead??!!

[DelBubs]

I'm not overly sure that there is an anti gay agenda in comics. I think if you went looking for patterns in relation to any given subject than an issue could be highlighted that isn't really there. One problem I have is that a hero/character being gay is the only character trait that is remembered. "Oh yea, Apollo and Midnighter, that gay pair from the Authority". So immediately anything untowards happens to one of them, their homosexuality is bought into the equation and has a bearing on how people perceive the trauma that has occured.

Northstar on the other hand, would seem to me to be the sort of character that only allows a writer to write him one way. He's orphaned, gay and a Mutant. He originates from a team that is normally treated with distain by writer and fan alike. There are many reasons he's such a jerk and therefore he has angst, misery and tragic events as every day occurences. I think it's an unwritten law in soap operas and comics that anyone who is not of the perceived norm is immediately fair game for having all kinds of **** happen to them.

Just a thought.

I'm with XXL on the other point raised, how can being gay effect how you carry out any task. Rob Halford of 'Judas Priest' can belt out Rock with the best of them.

[Trewqp]

Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5jAwXmPRlQ

Now look at this guy
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj162/inthedirectionofthesun/Mandalorians/FennShysa.jpg
His name is fenn shysa, what is that, a alien girl's name?

A mandalorian wedding
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x43/billionare_boys_club/Mandalorian_wedding.jpg

See? we cant have a gay mandalorian leader

[DelBubs]

Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5jAwXmPRlQ

Now look at this guy
His name is fenn shysa, what is that, a alien girl's name?

A mandalorian wedding

See? we cant have a gay mandalorian leader
Images removed for bandwidth purposes.

If that's your compelling arguement than I'm a bit confused. More in depth would help.

I could say the moon is made of cream cheese, but saying one thing and proving a thing are two seperate issues.

[Trewqp]

Delbubs, you are so right.
they need to give northstar some more respect.

But just dont make a gay person the leader of the mandalorians.

[DelBubs]

But just dont make a gay person the leader of the mandalorians.
Because ? (no pictures please, a clear narrative explaining your reasoning would be nice :-) )

[Trewqp]

Family was very important to the Mandalorians, yet when compared to most other cultures, they held very different beliefs as to what constituted a familial relationship. Despite the fact that fidelity and chastity before marriage was highly emphasized, they were unconcerned about parentage. Believing that aliit ori'shya tal'din (Family is More Than Bloodlines), it was common for orphaned children, and even adults, to be brought into the culture. The ceremony for adoption of a new Mandalorian is named gai bal manda, which means literally "name and soul". For the Mandalorians, there was no difference between a biological child and an adopted one.

Mandalorian children were usually raised by their mothers up to their third birthday, and then by their fathers, who would train them in the art of war until they became adults. Mandalorians were considered adults at the age of thirteen, when they would undergo a trial (the verd'goten, or coming of age) turning them into warriors. This contributed to the fact that Mandalorians married and settled down earlier than most cultures. Family bonds were a large part of the Mandalorian culture, and as a result, they felt more comfortable around each other than they did around strangers.


A Mandalorian wedding.Mandalorian women were expected to have the same combat skills as men, in order to defend their homes when the men were away. If they didn't have children to raise, they fought alongside men on the battlefield. The ideal Mandalorian woman was physically strong and resilient.

Homosexuality and same-sex marriage were apparently accepted by the Mandalorians, as Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur were an openly gay married couple living on Mandalore, who were fully integrated into Mandalorian society

There happy now? disgrace us and be happy :x

[DelBubs]

Nicely written, but how would being gay stop a person being a good leader of the Mandorlorians ? I can't see anything in your outline that would exclude them.

[Trewqp]

This is the future of the mandalorians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTqJ3_TBEkE

goran beviin will be a good leader.
but we will be disgraced :(

[DelBubs]

And with that I'm out. Quite sad that someone would make a statement that would ferment discord and then back it up with total bollacks.

[Mokole]

Media is not necessarily ever going to reflect reality.

After all, I had my students do a media project once, and some of the results:

In the U.S. 90% of murder victims are male. In media, under 50% are.
Sex between man and woman doesn't always lead to pregnancy. But in t.v. especially, sexual encounters lead to pregnancy over 80% of the time.
Men got child custody after divorce 3% of the time. On t.v. they found that 30% of single parents from divorce were men.
And on and on...

It's like the "Women in refridgerators" thing; pick any identifiable group and you can make a case that they are being 'singled out and abused or ignored or defamed or...'.

White males? Batman's parents are dead, he's been paralyzed, he's been beaten to a pulp countless times, Flash died at least twice, Captain America was shot multiple times and killed, Spider-man (where do you start?), Superman's death, Dr. Light is a retconned rapist, Guardian has been killed like 5 times...

It's silly to bring it up but virtually all evil characters are heterosexual, as well as all victims.

Males are always the perpetrators in domestic violence, while in reality it's 50-50 here.

I don't see a problem, what some want is always going to be put second to mass appeal and sensationalism.

[Trewqp]

And with that I'm out. Quite sad that someone would make a statement that would ferment discord and then back it up with total bollacks.

Your right, that was very sad. im sorry.
where is le messor when we need the dramatic comments when we need them?

[Le Messor]

And with that I'm out. Quite sad that someone would make a statement that would ferment discord and then back it up with total bollacks.

Your right, that was very sad. im sorry.
where is le messor when we need the dramatic comments when we need them?

... trying not to say anything on this thread... 'sides, I haven't worn dischords since the 70s.

[Loki]

ZERO. Number of boyfriends Northstar has had since his coming out in 1992.

ZERO. Number of times Northstar has kissed a man.

ZERO. Number of times Northstar has held hands with a man.

THREE. Number of times Northstar has been killed in Marvel Comics.

Taken from here (http://perrymoorestories.com/content/hero.asp?id=superheroes). I know Northstars been killed a lot, but three makes the point just as well :-).

They may have a point with each of those, EXCEPT the number of times he's been killed. That's just superhero comics. Guardian's been killed at least as many times, as has Captain Britain, and while I haven't kept individual counts, virtually all the X-Men, S.H.I.E.L.D.'s top agents and many of the Avengers have taken their turns being dead. Nature of the medium - one writer kills someone for "dramatic effect" and sooner or later another writer revives said character, either because they really liked them and wanted to use them so the death was an inconvenient impediment, or (not infrequently) because they simply didn't know the character was meant to be dead (the villains Mandrill and Killer Shrike both recovered from death this way).

[Loki]

Although i kinda agree with them, how can a gay guy be the leader of the mandalorians?
Mandalorians are the toughest most bad ass guys in star wars, these guy fight jedi with swords and kill them.


Read some history. The Spartans would be contenders for that "toughest most bad ass guys" title in real world history, but there's also strong evidence they permitted and had zero problem with, in fact probably even encouraged, homosexual partnerships amongst their warriors.

[Phil]

The issue continues (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080820-PerryMoore2.html)

[HappyCanuck]

Read some history. The Spartans would be contenders for that "toughest most bad ass guys" title in real world history, but there's also strong evidence they permitted and had zero problem with, in fact probably even encouraged, homosexual partnerships amongst their warriors.

Hercules was said to have male loves, including Jason and Orpheus of the Argonauts.

[cmdrkoenig67]

More GLB leaders (and some are considered heroes too)...Alexander the Great, Hadrian, Saladin, etc...

http://www.lambda.org/famous.htm