Question on AF Members/Continuity

[zephyr74]

All,

I have an idea for an AF story, which I'd like to work on, but, it seems AF is nothing short of a continuity nightmare at this point. So, here are my questions:
1. Last known whereabouts of Talisman?
2. What's the status of Kara and Whitman's relationship?
3. Is Northstar still in the X-books? Or was he removed from them to be part of the Chaos War special?
4. How were the Alphans brought back from the netherworld while Puck is in Hell with Wolverine (or whatever)?
5. Which Alphans actually went into space to return the Plodex eggs? Was their return ever discussed/resolved?
6. Was the status of the temporally displaced Alphans ever discussed/resolved?
7. Witchfire is supposedly trapped in some dimension with the Elder Gods? What dimension? Who and/or what are the Elder Gods?
8. Which Heather had a daughter? Real one or some temporal clone?

Any feedback on the above is appreciated.

Thanks,
Zef

[Legerd]

1. Talisman was last seen in Latveria possessed, along with all the other Marvel mystics, and was attacking Dr. Drumm and Dr. Doom. Where she went after that I don't know.
2. Unknown. Last I saw Kara was on Utopia. Whitman's whereabouts and status is unknown.
3. Northstar is still an X-man. He was teleported to Canada by the Great Beasts to help Alpha Flight fight the Chaos King and will go back to the X-men at the end of the Chaos War.
4. Shaman was able to keep their souls safe and together in the afterlife, but Puck was sent to Hell where Shaman didn't dare go. When the realms of the dead were destroyed AF was ejected to the realm of the living and teleported to Canada like Northstar and Aurora were by the Great Beasts.
5. It was Guardian, Vindicator, Shaman, Snowbird, Puck and I think Earthmover who took the Plodex home. Not much was said about their return other than they came back at some point.
6. All that was said about the temporal clones is they were sent back at some point after the real AF returned from space. No details were given.
7. I can't find any name other than the "Elder God's Dimension" for where she's trapped.
8. The real Heather had the baby in an X-men Annual.

[JonInIowaCity]

Witchfire is in Limbo, occasional home to Magik of the New Mutants.

[-K-M-]

The Elder Gods Witchfire is trapped with are Belasco's masters.

[MistressMerr]

8. The real Heather had the baby in an X-men Annual.
An issue of X-Men Unlimited, actually.

[zephyr74]

Thanks, Legerd. 5 and 6 sound very ambiguous to me. Was the sending bakc of the temporal clones actually stated within an issue of a comic book? Or is that conjecture?

8. I have no words. What dingbat thought this was a good idea?

[zephyr74]

So, Aurora and Sasquatch are just hanging out somewhere in Canada?

[Le Messor]

Aurora is running Northstar's business.

Sasquatch is...
just hanging out somewhere in Canada.

- Le Messor
"I do desire we may be better strangers."

[Legerd]

An issue of X-Men Unlimited, actually.

You are right; I stand corrected.


Thanks, Legerd. 5 and 6 sound very ambiguous to me. Was the sending bakc of the temporal clones actually stated within an issue of a comic book? Or is that conjecture?

No problem. The answers for 5 & 6 were revealed in interviews IIRC not in any book.


Aurora is running Northstar's business.

Sasquatch is...
just hanging out somewhere in Canada.

- Le Messor
"I do desire we may be better strangers."

Well, right now their both on their way to fight the Chaos King and his band of slave gods.

[Phil]

8. I have no words. What dingbat thought this was a good idea?

It was Frank Tieri that originally wrote Heather as being pregnant (Wolverine #174?) which kinda made sense.
It was Chuck Austen's awful issue of X-Men Unlimited (#45?) where she gave birth.

[zephyr74]

Legerd,
Technically, this has yet to be worked out/resolved in a book within continuity. There are a few ways to resolve this and bring them back, but, requires a lot of creative retcon to bring the characters to where they should be.

I haven't collected in a long time but, from what I've read online, thhis Chaos story is a hot mess.

Phil,
Thanks for clarifying. Did Heather and Mac take the baby with them to the Plodex world?

Also, it seems there's a lot of confusion about which Alphans were confirmed dead from the Collective storyline. Obviously, Sasquatch has lived to put together a makeshift AF team; twice. Snowbird has been resurrected and altered more than once and she's no longer bound to Canada, correct?

[suzene]

The baby was left behind on Earth, presumably with family.

Mac, Heather, Eugene and his daughter (Puck II), Major Mapleleaf II, and Shaman died from Bendis plot; Sasquatch survived. I don't think Snowbird was involved in that one.

[DIGGER]

I don't think Snowbird was involved in that one.

No she was not with them (perhaps she was off panel somewhere else);)

DIGGER

[Le Messor]

(perhaps she was off panel somewhere else)

Then... she IS dead! Nooooooooooo!!!!

[cmdrkoenig67]

The baby was left behind on Earth, presumably with family.

Um, Heather makes mention to Mac that they need to pick up their baby before leaving Earth...So it's implied that they took her with them.

Dana

[suzene]

Um, Heather makes mention to Mac that they need to pick up their baby before leaving Earth...So it's implied that they took her with them.

My bad. It's been a while since I've read v. 3.

(Also, WTH, Heather?!)

[Le Messor]

It's got anti-Plodex powers?

[zephyr74]

Like I said earlier, there seems to be a series of idiotic creative decisions, which became progressively more idiotic.

Also, how was Snowbird resurrected when Walter still has her body?

[Le Messor]

Also, how was Snowbird resurrected when Walter still has her body?

A.I.M. cloned her.

Idiotic creative decisions? What aarrre you talking about?

- Le Messor
"I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat."
~ Will Rogers

[MistressMerr]

A.I.M. cloned her.
Is that the official canon word on that? Because I remember the story just saying they dug her up and she got better, has it been retconned into something that actually makes sense?

[Le Messor]

Is that the official canon word on that? Because I remember the story just saying they dug her up and she got better, has it been retconned into something that actually makes sense?

Checking the issue (Wolverine #143, for the record, and #142)...
Hee hee hee "Her death was one of the greatest tragedies Alpha Flight ever had to endure... in many ways she (Heather) blamed herself for what happened."
You mean in the way that Heather SHOT HER?!?

Right now I'm laughing like in that David Bowie song 'Wishful Beginnings'. No, wait, that's actually playing.

Hmm... you're right. In the backup story to #143, they 'explain' it as advanced cellular regeneration, like Wolverine (Walt's comparison, not mine). After she was buried. Apparently Walt forgot that he got her body...

- Le Messor
"I don't care if there's chemicals in it, as long as my lettuce is crisp!"
~ Grace Slick

[Flightpath07]

Apparently Walt forgot that he got her body...


#-o


You gots to be kidding me...

After seeing him in her body, I was hideously (internally) scarred for life...yet, he just forgot!!!???!

[Phil]

Hmm... you're right. In the backup story to #143, they 'explain' it as advanced cellular regeneration, like Wolverine (Walt's comparison, not mine). After she was buried. Apparently Walt forgot that he got her body...

I always took that as AIM regenerated her using her cells, rather than a natural healing factor regeneration.

[Le Messor]

I always took that as AIM regenerated her using her cells, rather than a natural healing factor regeneration.

It reads more like the latter, but is open to interpretation (and Walt did compare it directly to Wolverine, as noted).

But either way, it'd require them getting their hands on her body - which Walt was in possession of. And, as FP pointed out, that's not the kind of thing you can just forget.

- Le Messor
"Possession is nine-tenths of the law."
~ Linda Blair?

[Phil]

But either way, it'd require them getting their hands on her body

Or just cells from the body.

[Ahab]

Or just cells from the body.

I know that not everyone liked Frank Tieri's handling of Alpha, but I liked how he handled this confusion caused by a previous writer and explained it away by a line that just left it up to the reader to use their imagination regarding how the Gods orchestrated the cloning.
One other dangling plotline from that same trainwreck of a story, however, is the other embryos of Snowbird that they showed that AIM had...

[cmdrkoenig67]

I was one who liked Frank's handling of Alpha Flight (when he's used them). I think he did a good job for the most part (including his handling of Aurora in Weapon X). He wrote the Wolverine and Alpha Flight VS Mauvais story too. I'd love to see Mauvais come back, if Alpha got their own series. He's a native Quebeois villain and he was very creepy and evil.

Actually, Mr Tieri used Alpha Flight somewhat often in Wolverine.

Dana

[zephyr74]

I'd have to go with Phil on this and have it explained as them using cells/DNA samples to regenerate her body. Snowbird couldn't have possibly been dug up from a grave as Walter possesses that body now.

[Legerd]

In Wolverine #172 (http://wolverine.x-knights.com/wolverine172.html) Shaman claims the Northern Gods had brought Snowbird back, but doesn't say why or how. His exact quote is:

Surely the Northern Gods did not orchestrate Snowbird's resurrection only to have her fall to the likes of you!

[Flightpath07]

Actually, Mr Tieri used Alpha Flight somewhat often in Wolverine.

???

He did? I guess I missed this. Mind you, 15 years out of the comic-buying realm might make me miss a few things of importance...

[Le Messor]

In Wolverine #172 (http://wolverine.x-knights.com/wolverine172.html) Shaman claims the Northern Gods had brought Snowbird back, but doesn't say why or how. His exact quote is:

Surely the Northern Gods did not orchestrate Snowbird's resurrection only to have her fall to the likes of you!

Note the use of the word 'orchestrated' meaning they were playing around behind the scenes when AIM did its thang.

I know technically AIM would only need a few cells to clone her, but it was implied (in that back up) her body regenerated itself - which would mean it was dug up. Also, how did they get those cells?

- Le Messor
Benjamin: Oh, actually all champagne is French, it's named after the region. Otherwise it's sparkling white wine. Americans of course don't recognize the convention, so it becomes that thing of calling all of their sparkling white "champagne", even though by definition they're not.
Wayne: Ah yes, it's a lot like "Star Trek: The Next Generation". In many ways it's superior but will never be as recognized as the original.
(I've got NexGen playing right now...)

[Phil]

I liked Tieri's work on Wolverine a lot.
He acknowledged Wolvie's history with AF and was generally respectful to the characters without changing much of their status quo. There were some nice little cameos.

[Legerd]

Note the use of the word 'orchestrated' meaning they were playing around behind the scenes when AIM did its thang.

I know technically AIM would only need a few cells to clone her, but it was implied (in that back up) her body regenerated itself - which would mean it was dug up. Also, how did they get those cells?

- Le Messor
Benjamin: Oh, actually all champagne is French, it's named after the region. Otherwise it's sparkling white wine. Americans of course don't recognize the convention, so it becomes that thing of calling all of their sparkling white "champagne", even though by definition they're not.
Wayne: Ah yes, it's a lot like "Star Trek: The Next Generation". In many ways it's superior but will never be as recognized as the original.
(I've got NexGen playing right now...)


Yes, but perhaps the gods put a new version of her body there for AIM to find?

[Le Messor]

Yes, but perhaps the gods put a new version of her body there for AIM to find?

Perhaps.

[Flightpath07]

Yes, but perhaps the gods put a new version of her body there for AIM to find?

Are you suggesting they gave her a new body...off-panel?

[Legerd]

Are you suggesting they gave her a new body...off-panel?
Why not? Everything else happens off-panel to the characters. :p

[Flightpath07]

Why not? Everything else happens off-panel to the characters. :p

That being said, next time we see Alpha Flight, i fully expect that Puck will be there with them. It'll just be another thing to add to the list of endless back-stories about Puck that need to be told at some point. (Puck seriously needs his own series, to tell his past adventures!)

[Le Messor]

That being said, next time we see Alpha Flight, i fully expect that Puck will be there with them. It'll just be another thing to add to the list of endless back-stories about Puck that need to be told at some point. (Puck seriously needs his own series, to tell his past adventures!)

Don't say that while I'm reading The Neverending Story!

- Le Messor
"And that is another story, and shall be told at another time."

[Flightpath07]

Don't say that while I'm reading The Neverending Story!

- Le Messor



Are you near the end of it? Not that it would be possible to ever finish the neverending story...

[Le Messor]

Neverending Story:
It just keeps going on and on...
I'm in Chapter 'W'. (I've read it a few times, but the last was years ago.)

Speaking of W, issues of Wolverine with Alpha Flight (starting at the earliest Tieri issue I just found, which is not #s 142-143; they're by Erics Larsen and Stephensen):
171-176, 179, 180. (After I found the earliest, I just copied the numbers off the gallery.)
First Class #5

- LM
Xander, sorting books: I don't get your crazy system.
Giles: It's called the alphabet.

[DIGGER]

That being said, next time we see Alpha Flight, i fully expect that Puck will be there with them. It'll just be another thing to add to the list of endless back-stories about Puck that need to be told at some point. (Puck seriously needs his own series, to tell his past adventures!)

Maybe a Puck mini with the rest of Alpha off panel. I know, I know, dead horse right?

DIGGER

[Le Messor]

I know, I know, dead horse right?

That horse is clawing its way out of Hell at Wolverine's side as we type.

[DIGGER]

That horse is clawing its way out of Hell at Wolverine's side as we type.

Maybe that is Major Mapleleaf's horse...come to think of it, what did happen to him? Is he on the Avengers Pets Squad?

DIGGER

[Le Messor]

He faded into limbo (so, yeah, it's probably him) and was not in the Pet Squad.

- Le Messor
"I don't have time for an algorithm, I've gotta get this program written!"

[Flightpath07]

Maybe that is Major Mapleleaf's horse...come to think of it, what did happen to him? Is he on the Avengers Pets Squad?

DIGGER

I actually didn`t have a problem with that horse. It was sort of a cool idea.

[Phil]

Maybe that is Major Mapleleaf's horse...come to think of it, what did happen to him?

A shotgun and a trip to the glue factory.

[Ahab]

A shotgun and a trip to the glue factory.

I had no idea you suffer from Equinophobia. Why else would someone have such hatred for one of the best characters created in 2004? :D

[Phil]

Hey it was nothing to do with me... it was... erm... Xorn.
Yeah, that's it.
Xorn.

[Ahab]

Hey it was nothing to do with me... it was... erm... Xorn.
Yeah, that's it.
Xorn.

Let it be known, everyone, that I was not the one to bring up Phil's other issue - being a Xorn-addict.
But since you brought it up, they have self-help programs for that, you know.
Oh wait. I might be thinking of something else.

[Phil]

I was possessed! It wasn't my fault!
Wah! Wah! Wah!

Does that mean I get to wear a Maple Leaf Power suit now even though I'm English?

[Le Messor]

You have to wear a padawan braid.

[DIGGER]

I was possessed! It wasn't my fault!
Wah! Wah! Wah!

Does that mean I get to wear a Maple Leaf Power suit now even though I'm English?

They did give it to an American after all. I'd rather wear the Union Jack. That is another classic outfit.

DIGGER

[cmdrkoenig67]

Hey it was nothing to do with me... it was... erm... Xorn.
Yeah, that's it.
Xorn.

We know Xorn is the source of all the world's ills.

Dana;)