I Know Why Marvel Brought Alpha Flight Back

[Le Messor]

It will help them in their latest brilliant idea for selling new comics (http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/showthread.php?35510-Marvel-We-re-Going-To-Kill-A-Character-Every-Quarter-%28UPDATE%29).

As I should have said on the Chaos Wars 5 thread, just because it creates a short-term spike in comics sales doesn't mean it's a good idea.
{nemesis}

- Le Messor
"I had no idea that children en masse could be gracious."
~ Giles

[cmdrkoenig67]

Sigh.....

[Le Messor]

Sigh.....

That's what I said when the Master pointed me to it.
Actually, it was closer to
"There aren't enough 'i's in *sigh* to cover it."

[Tawmis]

Yeah, but that's a joke. Not the article, but the idea behind it.

Captain America died; sales spiked.
Batman died; sales spiked.
Superman died; sales spiked.

Within a year of these deaths?

Captain America returned.
Batman returned.
Superman returned.

Any idiot who falls for the spike in sales because of a death is an idiot.

[Le Messor]

Sadly, it makes good business sense. "Character deaths sell, ergo if we make more character deaths we will sell more comics."

Of course, that will last until the novelty wears off, I'm guessing until about the second?

- Le Messor
"I had to fight with myself every time circumstances forced me to put it down."
~ P. Straub of R. Campbell's Incarnate

[Tawmis]

Sadly, it makes good business sense. "Character deaths sell, ergo if we make more character deaths we will sell more comics."

Of course, that will last until the novelty wears off, I'm guessing until about the second?

- Le Messor
"I had to fight with myself every time circumstances forced me to put it down."
~ P. Straub of R. Campbell's Incarnate

See, it's non comic book collectors who fall for this. Marvel leaks news that "Major_Character_A is going to die and it's going to impact the Marvel Universe, like you won't believe!"

It gets leaked to news articles; people rush to get the issue thinking it will be worth something; sales spike.

Character dies. A year or two later comes back. And the spike in sales for all those who purchased that issue just because Character_A died, now have a worthless comic in their hands.

People need to wake up.

[Le Messor]

See, it's non comic book collectors who fall for this. Marvel leaks news that "Major_Character_A is going to die and it's going to impact the Marvel Universe, like you won't believe!"
It gets leaked to news articles; people rush to get the issue thinking it will be worth something; sales spike.
People need to wake up.

That's my point - this will wake people up. And how many general news sources do you think will keep reporting on it after it's happened two or three times in one year?

That said, I'm not sure the issue becomes worthless when the character comes back. I think (*think*) the Dark Phoenix Saga and the Death of Superman are still worth something.
Also, if it's worthless after they get back, it's worthless before - it's collectors who decide the value, and we already know they'll be back soon.

- Le Messor
"All over me, all over me,
I've got the blood of an innocent man all over me."
- Petra (Christian band)

[Tawmis]

That's my point - this will wake people up. And how many general news sources do you think will keep reporting on it after it's happened two or three times in one year?
That said, I'm not sure the issue becomes worthless when the character comes back. I think (*think*) the Dark Phoenix Saga and the Death of Superman are still worth something.
Also, if it's worthless after they get back, it's worthless before - it's collectors who decide the value, and we already know they'll be back soon.


The Death of Phoenix is probably still worth something BECAUSE it's Uncanny X-Men, and UXM during a great era. So it's worth something, even though the death of Jean Grey has been nullified, because it's still a good read, during a great era for UXM. All of the UXM around this era are worth something.

As for the Death of Superman... if you ever run out of toilet paper, use this issue. As a matter of fact, if you have toilet paper, use the issue FIRST, then use the toilet paper. Most people know the issue is worthless (http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-SUPERMAN-75-Death-Superman-Black-Cover-SEALED-/280628817738?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4156c7ef4a), but there's some who are clearly not "in the know" of what something's worth. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Death-Superman-Black-Bag-75-Sealed-MINT-/110615260872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c12eeec8) Even signed and numbered, it may fetch a high price (http://cgi.ebay.com/Signed-75-Death-Superman-Comic-Sealed-And-2958-7500-/250772863699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a633a3ad3), but it seems over priced. (But you'd figure if it was worth some real money, and signed and numbered, it'd fetch much more if it was truly a collector's item).

[Le Messor]

As a matter of fact, if you have toilet paper, use the issue FIRST, then use the toilet paper.

ROTFLMAO until I can't use toilet paper anyway!!!!

Hey, if it fetches that kind of money, I'd rather sell it off.

- LM
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
~ Hunter S. Thompson

[Tawmis]

I'd like to point out, that I was a sucker for the "Death of Superman" when it came out. I have both the BLACK plastic cover sealed, as well as the WHITE one that came out a little later as a reprint. That was the first - and last time - I let myself be suckered by a character death for "value's sake"...

[MajorMountie]

I am sick of killing off a character for the sole fact of sales. It's lost its luster for me. I'm glad they brought back Cap though because that death was just flat-out dumb, and ridiculous. Turned me off Marvel for a long time.

As for how they killed off a member of the Fantastic Four recently, I actually like the way they did that. Is it permanent? Probably not, but it was an enjoyable read, and actually gave the character some respect. At least it made sense.

[DaVeO]

I am sick of killing off a character for the sole fact of sales. It's lost its luster for me. I'm glad they brought back Cap though because that death was just flat-out dumb, and ridiculous. Turned me off Marvel for a long time.

As for how they killed off a member of the Fantastic Four recently, I actually like the way they did that. Is it permanent? Probably not, but it was an enjoyable read, and actually gave the character some respect. At least it made sense.

I actually thought his (Steve's) death was better played out than most I've seen. I've enjoyed James's stint as Cap more then anything put out by Marvel for awhile now. As for the Torch, well, it got me curious. I read FF #1 and really enjoyed it so I've since picked up the first two volumes of his (Hickman) Fantastic Four run, just finished the first vol and really, really liked it. I did the same thing with Captain America upon his death. So I hate to say it but the "death hook" did in fact hook me twice now. Only because the writing leading up to the events were excellent however.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Captain America's initial death was a very interesting story...However, what Brubaker did with it after that (saying Cap was shot with a bullet that sent his spirit through time) was ridiculous. Why did he have to ruin the story with a really "out there" explanation? The whole thing became a bad comic book cliche.

IMHO, the situation with the FF is just as ridiculous...Instead of continuing as the Fantastic Four (bringing in a new member or even a former member...Like She-Hulk, etc...), they change their name, get new costumes as if they're trying to forget Johnny....I find it rather lame....And why does it have to be Spider-Man to replace him on the team (I know part of it is because he and Johnny were friends)? Doesn't being a solo hero and an Avenger keep Spidey busy enough? He'll soon join Wolverine in the "A member of way too many teams for it to be plausible" camp...Marvel's biggest heroes being on nearly every team is getting ridiculous.

I really don't understand Marvel's marketing ploys with Alpha Flight either....I've said this before possibly here and on other boards, but wouldn't it have made more sense to capitalize on Alpha's death in New Avengers at the time it happened? Relaunch Alpha Flight when interest and talk was at it's peak around them...Perhaps showing that some of them survived (perhaps Sasquatch, Puck, Mac and Heather?) and their struggle to pick up the pieces and rebuild?

Dana

[Le Messor]

I actually thought his (Steve's) death was better played out than most I've seen... As for the Torch, well, it got me curious...

I believe both of those were done, though, to be part of a story, not part of a cheap, cynical marketing ploy.


Captain America's initial death was a very interesting story...However, what Brubaker did with it after that (saying Cap was shot with a bullet that sent his spirit through time) was ridiculous. Why did he have to ruin the story with a really "out there" explanation? The whole thing became a bad comic book cliche.

Isn't that what they did with Batman?
For me, having not read it, I like really "out there" explanations and bad comic book clichés. We seem to be going through a stage where every comic book has to be literary fiction, or at most hard sci-fi, and absolutely everything must give way to somebody's idea of "realism". And has to be so, so, soooo realistic!
I am heartily sick of it.
My favourite comic is about a guy who changes into an ape, a wizard with a bottomless bag, a fish-girl, a shapeshifter who does great animal imitations, two people who can fly at superfast speeds, and a red-head with more than two friends. Do I LOOK like I want ultra-realism?!?


IMHO, the situation with the FF is just as ridiculous...Instead of continuing as the Fantastic Four

'nother cheap marketing ploy. An excuse for another #1. Ugh.
Two, actually. Adding an already-popular character. (Though, technically, Spider-Man has been in the FF before... Technically!)


Doesn't being a solo hero and an Avenger keep Spidey busy enough? He'll soon join Wolverine in the "A member of way too many teams for it to be plausible" camp...

Too late!
People are already talking.

- Le Messor
"I wish dating was like slaying. You know, simple, direct, stake through the heart, no muss, no fuss."
~ Xander

[cmdrkoenig67]

I believe both of those were done, though, to be part of a story, not part of a cheap, cynical marketing ploy.



Isn't that what they did with Batman?
For me, having not read it, I like really "out there" explanations and bad comic book clichés. We seem to be going through a stage where every comic book has to be literary fiction, or at most hard sci-fi, and absolutely everything must give way to somebody's idea of "realism". And has to be so, so, soooo realistic!
I am heartily sick of it.
My favourite comic is about a guy who changes into an ape, a wizard with a bottomless bag, a fish-girl, a shapeshifter who does great animal imitations, two people who can fly at superfast speeds, and a red-head with more than two friends. Do I LOOK like I want ultra-realism?!?

Mik...I guess I'm just saying the explanation didn't have to be so ridiculous.




'nother cheap marketing ploy. An excuse for another #1. Ugh.
Two, actually. Adding an already-popular character. (Though, technically, Spider-Man has been in the FF before... Technically!)



Too late!
People are already talking.

- Le Messor
"I wish dating was like slaying. You know, simple, direct, stake through the heart, no muss, no fuss."
~ Xander

[Le Messor]

Mik...I guess I'm just saying the explanation didn't have to be so ridiculous.

You can react to it how you will... and, as mentioned, I haven't read it.
My take is very general.

- Le Messor
Calvin: I wish I had more friends, but people are such jerks. If you can just get most people to leave you alone, you're doing good. If you can find even one person you really like, you're lucky. And if that person can also stand you, you're really lucky.
Hobbes: What if you find someone you can talk to while you eat apples on a bright fall morning?
Calvin: Well, yeah... I suppose there's no point in getting greedy, is there?

[MajorMountie]

Cap was killed with a bullet though. A bullet.

I don't know about you guys, but I... absolutely hated that story and it turned me off Marvel for a long time.

In fact, I'd probably still be avoiding the new stuff if AF wasn't coming back.

[DaVeO]

IMHO, the situation with the FF is just as ridiculous...Instead of continuing as the Fantastic Four (bringing in a new member or even a former member...Like She-Hulk, etc...), they change their name, get new costumes as if they're trying to forget Johnny....I find it rather lame....And why does it have to be Spider-Man to replace him on the team (I know part of it is because he and Johnny were friends)? Doesn't being a solo hero and an Avenger keep Spidey busy enough? He'll soon join Wolverine in the "A member of way too many teams for it to be plausible" camp...Marvel's biggest heroes being on nearly every team is getting ridiculous.

Too late, he's already on another team, AND with Wolverine. He's the guy with the guns, right? Or is that the swords? Is white the new red or blue at Marvel?
990
Psst, I agree, She-Hulk should be on the FF, not Spidey.
991



I really don't understand Marvel's marketing ploys with Alpha Flight either....I've said this before possibly here and on other boards, but wouldn't it have made more sense to capitalize on Alpha's death in New Avengers at the time it happened? Relaunch Alpha Flight when interest and talk was at it's peak around them...Perhaps showing that some of them survived (perhaps Sasquatch, Puck, Mac and Heather?) and their struggle to pick up the pieces and rebuild?

Dana

Because when Bendis killed Alpha Flight with Joe Q's permission there was ZERO interest in the bullpen to do anything with the characters. They were c-listers and failures in their eyes, hence cannon fodder to make the New Avengers look good. So why would they bother trying to put a book together. Besides, back then we may not have had the outstanding creative team we're getting now. It might have just been another half-assed attempt using a flavour of the month or untried team.

Good things come to those who wait.

In this case I think it actually came true.

[Flightpath07]

DaVeO, your linked attachments don't work.

[Phil]

Too late, he's already on another team, AND with Wolverine. He's the guy with the guns, right? Or is that the swords? Is white the new red or blue at Marvel?


That's Deadpool.
I can see why you'd think Spidey though.

[Le Messor]

In keeping with this thread, not that Marvel are cynical market manipulators (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/05/11/angry-comic-book-fans-sales/)...

- Le Messor
"To avoid hitting the bumper of the car in front I struck the pedestrian."
~ alleged insurance form

[Flightpath07]

It's a truism among fans that no matter how much certain readers complain and complain about books or stories they hate, they just keep on buying them, and thereby support both the books they dislike and the system that keeps producing them.

This seems like the crux of the problem right there.


Moreover, if he suggests that he knows something works, but doesn't know why it works, my question is; Do you really know at all, then? Seems like the consumer industry is a dangerous business to throw blind faith against the wall; "It's always worked before, pissing off fans to sell more comics, so we will just keep going with it" sort of a thing, eh?

Finally, the poll at the end shows all. If people are being honest in their poll answers (I was), then Marvel has dropped the ball and are completely out of touch with reality.

[cmdrkoenig67]

I only buy books that feature characters I've liked since I was young and that doesn't include, any of the Avengers (Cap America, Iron man, Thor, etc...), Hulk or Spider-Man...The characters I like tend to be the underdog heroes (like Alpha, the Shroud, Werewolf By Night and formerly the X-Men). I stopped buying the X-books quite a few years back, because the lost their way IMHO...I haven't gone back, except for Northstar appearances...And I don't even collect all of those.

I began buying New Avengers when it first started, because I love the original Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) character...yet as time went on, I learned I wasn't going to like anything that Bendis did with her (which turned out to be very little). I dropped the book around the mid teens and I got even more irked when it was revealed that it wasn't Jessica Drew I was reading at all. When The solo Spider-Woman series started I bought the first issue and was bored to death...Didn't buy another issue after that (not that this horrible series lasted very long).

I bought Alpha Volume 3 and cringed nearly all the way through it...I even came close to dropping it, which is unheard of for me, because I love Alpha Flight so much.

I can safely say that my loyalty only goes so far (and Marvel has killed a lot of my interest in buying anything from them in the past 10-15 years)...I drop books, when I feel they have nothing of value to offer me...It's just not worth the 4 bucks.

Dana

[Le Messor]

I only buy books that feature characters I've liked... I stopped buying the X-books quite a few years back, because the lost their way IMHO...

Me, too!
I started buying Uncanny again at #505 because of all the Alpha appearances, and am thinking of dropping them anyway. I'm just not enjoying them.

Your and Flightpath's comments bring me to my theory about all this:
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The reason people are buying only books that make them mad might be because Marvel and DC have driven away all the readers who read for stories and characters they love. (Would've happened during the 90s.)

I know that the type of comics I love, the stuff that got me reading in the first place, have been the exception since then. I also know that sales are much lower now than they were then. (Yes, both companies love to blame computer games for that; but don't most people love to blame somebody else rather than see a fault in themselves? Hey, I'm just observing all this, I can't help making this post, it's everybody else, uh...)

- Le Messor
"The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none."