AF Appearance Chronology

[Phil]

Right, there have been talks of this recently, and in fact as far back as I can remember we've dabbled with it.

It's often been asked for a timeline of Alpha appearances, breaking up issues into flashback sequences and multiple-story issues.

I know there are sites such as http://www.marvunapp.com/master/mastguid.htm
and http://chronologyproject.com/ but they tend to be per character and it'd be interesting to see our thoughts and reasoning as to what goes where.

Back on the old mailing list and board when we were doing our re-reading 'club' we hashed out a rough order of:



AF 5.5
2.5
3.5
-1 (Flashback issue)
6.5
(Volume 2) #1 (Flashback period)
Wolverine 144
Hulk 180, 181
Wolverine -1
AF 7.5
8.5
First Flight Special
9.5
Gt Sized X-Men #1 (I just read the Wolvie recruiting page and
moved on with this one.)
X-Men 109
AF 11.5
X-Men 120, 121
Hulk Annual #8
Contest Of Champions v1
Machine Man #18 / X-Men 139, 140 - Simulataneously
Hulk 272, 273
Alpha Flight #1
Marvel 2-In-1 83, 84
Hulk 279
Marvel 2-in-1 Ann 7
Rom 56, 57
Alpha Flight #2


Now I know at the time there was an issue over the ROM placement, and there have been a lot of comics published since we discussed this that would slot in, in places (Wolverine First Class, for example) and the placing of Wolverine #144 & Hulk 180-181 would need to be moved in light of Wolverine Origins / X-Men Legacy : Original Sin (although that conflicts with First Class...), but these were how we placed things in reading AF #1-2.

Any thoughts?
Is this worth restarting?
Anyone interested?

[Flightpath07]

is it worth restarting? Absolutely.

can i help? Well, no...but I will gladly applaud the efforts of those who can!

[Le Messor]

... I'll get back to you...

[Le Messor]

This is part 1, based on the catalogue of my collection (which I try to keep in chronological order). If anyone disagrees, feel free to tell me and I'll tell you why I'm right and you're wrong nyah nyah!
That last part was a joke.

I originally thought the origins should be in the same comics that featured the characters. But they weren't.

After a long time, I decided the only way to make sense of the .5s' order was to decide they were in chronological order. Looking at the above, 5.5 could work for me, though I think it covers a longer time period than that. (edit: when I typed that, I'd forgotten it was two separate issues. I've now moved 5.5 accordingly.)
That said, since I don't have doubles of most of them, I've just shoved these roughly into place just then.

Suggested order, part 1: Before the series:

Alpha Flight 5.5
Alpha Flight 2.5
Alpha Flight 3.5
Alpha Flight v.2 #-1
Wolverine: Origin of an X-Man - Mac has a small but important role, and Jeffries gets an origin
Wolverine #-1 - similar to Origin, above, the Hudsons are here as a framing story, picking up and dropping off Logan
Wolverine #144 - and again, this one ret-conning what happened right before Wolvie's first meeting with Hulk.
Incredible Hulk #s 180-181 - technical appearance only, but an important one. This is Wolverine's first appearance; he was, technically, a member of Alpha Flight at the time. This and Gt Size X-Men #1 are the two of these I'm counting.
Alpha Flight 6.5
Alpha Flight 7.5
Alpha Flight 8.5
First Flight Special
Alpha Flight 9.5
X-Men Origins: Wolverine #1 - different to the origins one above; this is largely a 'The story so far,' including the Hudsons finding Logan in the snow. In this one, Mac wasn't present when Charlie X recruited Logan (against Cl. Chasin's wishes); a couple of these stories ret-con it so he was.
Wolverine First Class #5 - a proto-Alpha consisting of Logan, Shaman, Snowbird, and Aurora fight Citadel, who dies. How he's around for v4, we don't know - though it's written by one of the same people. Also ends Charlie X recruits Logan (against Cl. Kinney's wishes)
Giant-Sized X-Men #1 - A double technical appearance; though not in this issue, it's sometimes ret-conned that Mac was there whent Charlie X recruited Logan (against Cl. Chasen's wishes); sometimes not. Either way, Logan started that scene as a member of AF.
Alpha Flight #10.5
Uncanny X-Men #109 / Classic #16 - Mac's first appearance.
Uncanny X-Men #120 - 121 / Classic #26 - 27 - The whole team's first appearance; the Classic version has extra pages of Mac, including bits with Heather.
Incredible Hulk ann 8 - Walt fights Hulk
Contest Of Champions #1 - 3 - Every superhero in the world fights each other; the whole team appears in #1, and Sas has a large role. But then, he's a large guy. He's on the cover of #s 1 & 3, and only symbolically in #2. There's a mini-Handbook in the back pages. Also, Talisman is in these, but this version is completely unrelated to our Talisman; is Australian, in fact.
Machine Man #18 / Uncanny X-Men #139 - 140 - Sas, Aurora, and Northstar fight then help Machine Man against Madame Masque in New York, while Logan and Kurt help Mac, Michael, and Narya against Wendigo. Heather's first appearance.
Incredible Hulk #272 - 273 - Walt and Hulk fight Wendigo in the first of these; Walt and Michael help with the clean-up in the second (but are only in the first few pages)
Alpha Flight #1
Marvel Two-In-One #83 - 84 - Thing needs Walt's help as a biochemist, fights Sas; then they get together with the team (minus Puck and Marrina, who hadn't been invented yet) to fight proto-Great Beast Ranark
Incredible Hulk #279 - Big crowd scene; Hulk gets accepted by the world, and AF is there. They make a mini-speech
Marvel Two-In-One ann 7 - The Champion takes on all the strong guys, including Sas who has a decent-sized role
Rom Spaceknight #56 - 58 - AF help Rom fight Wraiths in Canada. The final issue is one of those where they're still around to follow up the previous ones, but don't really have a role. Byrne covers on 56 and 57.
Alpha Flight #2

- Le Messor
"I have the heart of a little child and the brain of a genius - I keep them in a jar under my bed."

[Flightpath07]

Um...not meaning to sound stoopid (but I will), but what-the-heck is a ".5" issue of Alpha Flight? I feel so lost right now...

[Le Messor]

I read 'not meaning to sound stoopid', and knew exactly what your question would be.

They're the origin stories in the backs of Volume 1.

- Le Messor
Xander: ...stay here.
Buffy: I'd only be here for moral support.
Xander: ...but you can get the ho-ho's for us.
Giles: She's right, she should go.
Xander: ...but ho-ho's are a vital part of my thinking process.

[Flightpath07]

Ah. Gotcha. Thanx!

[Phil]

So; are we counting Wolverine:Origin Of An X-Man (FCBD) as canon then?
Does this clash with any of the Byrne origin of Madison?

[Le Messor]

So; are we counting Wolverine:Origin Of An X-Man (FCBD) as canon then?
Does this clash with any of the Byrne origin of Madison?

I am, but it's never occurred to me not to.
Do we have any particular reason?

Byrne never gave much of an origin for him to clash with. (Or first name, for that matter.) Just that he'd been digging ditches for a living and everybody thought he was dead - and that happened after he joined the 'Flight. (Also, I think Byrne implied he'd been a soldier, which Mantlo later spoke about definitively.)
This is, AFAIK, the first attempt to address it.

- Le Messor
"I've got ham, but I'm not a hamster!"
~ Bill Bailey

[Phil]

Yeah, it's more than meeting of Mac for the first time, though that's straying into Mantlo territory I suppose...

[Le Messor]

Yeah, it's more than meeting of Mac for the first time, though that's straying into Mantlo territory I suppose...

I don't remember that ever being mentioned before?

- Le Messor
"Pardon me, but why is Lt. Barclay being clandestinely described as a vegetable?"
~ Data

[rplass]

So; are we counting Wolverine:Origin Of An X-Man (FCBD) as canon then?
Does this clash with any of the Byrne origin of Madison?

No clash with the Byrne origin, no. The clash is Mantlo's with Byrne. I mentioned this on my site, where I posted about this issue: (http://alphaflightcollector.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/james-macdonald-had-a-farm-e-i-e-i-o/)


Not much had been known about his recruitment until now, except for the known continuity errors on Mantlo’s part in Alpha Flight #46, when Jeffries mentions to Kara, “Bochssie an’ I go ‘way ‘way back, before we was Betans, even”, contradicting what we know of their first meeting in Alpha Flight #16 and the fact that Jeffries was never in Beta Flight.

There is also a minor clash with the Alpha Flight Special - at the end of the FCBD, the military brass makes a decision about funding:


Interestingly, Wolverine's success in this mission results in "the brass" authorizing the first round of funding for Alpha Flight, a name which is misplaced by Mac's enthusiasm, as the first team formed was just "The Flight", and the teams divided into lettered tiers later on.

But nothing in conflict with Byrne. I'd consider it canon.

Love,
rplass

[Phil]

Note that this clinic is likely NOT the “The Clinic for Socially Maladjusted Super- Beings”, the name Puck jokingly gives to Beta and Gamma Flights.
It could quite easily be made to be the same clinic, but again that'd give credit to #46 which as you've pointed out is just all over the place in terms of contradicting #16, so #46 may as well be completely ignored.

The ending however doesn't mesh with Wolverine #144.

EDIT: Wolverine #144 doesn't however work with the First Flight Special either, and remembering back the Wolverine at that time was actually a Skrull, so I reckon that #144 isn't actually canon and is just the Skrull spinning DumDum a tale.

Which means that ignoring Mantlo's #46, the FCBD story still works.

What was the contradiction with the First Flight special?

[Le Messor]

Note that this clinic is likely NOT the “The Clinic for Socially Maladjusted Super- Beings”, the name Puck jokingly gives to Beta and Gamma Flights.

I've always taken that line literally, but that interpretation works well.


What was the contradiction with the First Flight special?

That the team was called Alpha Flight from the beginning, not simply The Flight.

- Le Messor
"I hope someday you know the indescribable joy of having children, and of paying someone else to raise them."
~ Gomez

[Phil]

That the team was called Alpha Flight from the beginning, not simply The Flight.

At least that's just a slight niggle that can either be ignored or probably written off as Mac's enthusiasm and that he always originally intended for it to be called Alpha Flight, but got changed to The Flight or something, rather than something that greatly clashes with continuity.

I'm happy with it counting as canon.

Anyone else's thoughts on Wolverine #144?

[Le Messor]

At least that's just a slight niggle

Well, yep. Just a minor clash.

If the word is Wolverine #144 is non-con, I'll edit it out of the first post.

- Mik
"I is a college student."

[Phil]

I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts to get around #144 being the first time Logan tried on his uniform, clashing with First Flight, and #144 leading straight into Hulk #180.

[Le Messor]

I put First Flight after Hulk 180.

- Le Messor
"I joined a health club last year, spent about 400 bucks. Haven’t lost a pound. Apparently you have to show up."

[Phil]

That would contradict X-Men:Original Sin where GS:X-Men comes immediately after Hulk #181.
Although that contradicts Wolverine First Class #5

[Le Messor]

That would contradict X-Men:Original Sin where GS:X-Men comes immediately after Hulk #181.
Although that contradicts Wolverine First Class #5

Ah, that's the bit of info I'm missing. I don't think I have Original Sin.

Problem is, Wolverine's first appearances by their nature attract new writers, and that attracts retconning, and retconning leads to hate and hate to suffering, and suffering leads to hope and
um...

[Phil]

Ah, that's the bit of info I'm missing. I don't think I have Original Sin.
You're not missing much, it was a crossover with Wolverine:Origins & X-Men Legacy that had a Prologue oneshot.
It was... dubious at best.


Problem is, Wolverine's first appearances by their nature attract new writers, and that attracts retconning, and retconning leads to hate and hate to suffering, and suffering leads to hope and um...
Yeah, and the temptation for an AF writer is to include Wolverine as much as possible in flashbacks for sales... something, something, something, dark side.

[Le Messor]

You're not missing much, it was a crossover with Wolverine:Origins & X-Men Legacy that had a Prologue oneshot.
It was... dubious at best.
Yeah, and the temptation for an AF writer is to include Wolverine as much as possible in flashbacks for sales... something, something, something, dark side.

Then I say we ignore Original Sin. Seems like the best way to deal with the clashes.
I see you've figured out the secret to good Star Wars dialogue!

- Le Messor
"I hear what you’re saying but I just don’t care."

[Le Messor]

Now part 2:
Volume 1:

Alpha Flight #2 - 4
Marvel Heartbreakers #1 - Snowbird has a story in this anthology comic.
Alpha Flight #5
Crystar #11 - Shaman, Puck, and Northstar guest star in the issue; Shaman, Puck and Snowbird guest star on the cover.
Alpha Flight #6
Alpha Flight / X-Men v2 #1 - 2 - teams up X-Men and Alpha.
Fantastic Four #267 - Walter is among the people trying to save the Richards's second baby. A Byrne issue.
Alpha Flight #7 - 13
Marvel Team-Up ann 7 - Alpha Flight team up with Spider-Man to take down the Collector.
Alpha Flight #14 - 17
Power Pack #9 - 10 - Marrina teams up with Power Pack to capture a giant snake; follows on from the Team Up appearance above.
Alpha Flight #18 - 19
Alpha Flight X-Men 1. #1 - 2 Another X-Men / Alpha team up. Against Loki.
Alpha Flight #20 - 21
Iron Man #195 - Shaman helps James Rhodes with his headaches, acting out of character.
Iron Man #196 - Shaman's still around for the first couple of pages.
Alpha Flight #22 - 27
Secret Wars #4 - a crossover with #27 and #28; The Beyonder helps with their little problem.
Alpha Flight #28
Incredible Hulk #313 - a crossover; Walt and the Hulk meet at the Crossroads.
Alpha Flight #29 - 31
Secret Wars #9 - Alpha is among the teams who go to fight the Beyonder.
Alpha Flight #32 - 34
Marvel Fanfare #28 - Northstar's terrorist past is catching up with him. The then-current team helps out.
Alpha Flight 35
Marvel Comics Presents #99 - Puck vs. Arcade
Alpha Flight #36 - 39
Avengers #272 - crossover with #39 & 40, as both teams take on Atlantis
Alpha Flight #40
Alpha Flight ann 1
Alpha Flight #41 - 50
Alpha Flight ann 2
Alpha Flight #51 - 65
Marvel Comics Presents #51 - 53 - Wildchild hunts Wolverine, with Vindicator as bait
Alpha Flight #66 - 90
Wolverine #35 - 37 - Wolverine travels back in time. Past Puck is in these issues, mostly out of them.
Avengers #320 - 324 - Alpha, The Avengers, and the Soviet team (whatever they were called at the time) team up to fight nuclear terrorists
Alpha Flight #91 - 100
Marvel Comics Presents #92 - Northstar gets in trouble for using his mutant powers to cheat at sports
Alpha Flight #101 - 107
Nick Fury #32 - Wild Child helps SHIELD with terrorists
Alpha Flight #108 - 109
∞ War #1 - 2 - Alpha Flight are among the groups fighting the baddies
Alpha Flight #110
∞ War #3 - 4- Alpha Flight are among the groups fighting the baddies
Alpha Flight #111
∞ War #5 - 6- Alpha Flight are among the groups fighting the baddies
Alpha Flight #112 - 120
Death Metal #2 - (Alpha are on the final page of #1 to set up for this issue) Death Metal attempts suicide by RCMP, using Alpha as the cop
Death Metal vs. Genetix #1 - the fight continues for a couple of pages only, but the rest of the issue has Implications for the team.
NB: all three Death Metal issues were written by then Alpha Flight scribe Simon Furman.
Alpha Flight #121 - 122
∞ Crusade #1 - 2- Alpha Flight are among the groups fighting the baddies
Alpha Flight #123 - 124
∞ Crusade #3- Alpha Flight are among the groups fighting the baddies
Alpha Flight #125 - 126
∞ Crusade #4 - 6- Alpha Flight are among the groups fighting the baddies
Alpha Flight #127
Wolverine #76 - 77 - Heather and Puck are on-hand for a fight 'tween Wolvie and Lady Deathstryke. They mostly stay out of it, but are part of it.
Secret Defenders #11 - Northstar is recruited to help against the Starblast crossover. He doesn't do much, but has a large role. Actually, he's had a lot of large rolls, judging by his beefiness.
Alpha Flight #128 - 130
Northstar #1 - 4

For some reason, I decided to bold all the Alpha Flight issues.
Some of these are no-brainers since the Alpha issue will say 'continued in...'; others less-so. For example, much as I love The Gift, it's really hard to place because the exact team configuration never happened, not between books anyway.

A few of the MCPs are way, way before printing time.

[Flightpath07]

Then I say we ignore Original Sin

Isn't the first step admitting the problem?

[Phil]

You're placing Heartbreakers that early on?
Hmm.. I may need to re-read it. I read it as happening after Incredible Hercules with her being very alone in the world and sexually reawakened (for lack of a better term) by Herc.

[Le Messor]

Basically because she fights the Great Beasts (including Somon, or at least finds evidence of him) without thinking twice about why they're alive again.

Also, her parents' talk at the end could be considered foreshadowing of the Doug Thompson storyline.

- Le Messor
"I just got skylights put in my place. The people who live above me are furious."
~ Steve Wright

[Garry/Al-Fan]

What about the additional pages from Classic X-Men?

[Le Messor]

What about the additional pages from Classic X-Men?

I've edited it to:
Uncanny #109 / Classic #16
Uncanny #120 & 121 / Classic #26 & 27.

The pages just work themselves into the issues.

- Le Messor
"I like the word `indolence.’ It makes my laziness seem classy."

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Cool.

Any objection to including Machine Man#18 as simultaneous with UXM# 139 & 140, like Phil did?

[Le Messor]

Cool.
Any objection to including Machine Man#18 as simultaneous with UXM# 139 & 140, like Phil did?

Done, and frankly I have no excuse for splitting them up like that. They are clearly stated in a couple of comics as being simultaneous.

- Le Messor
"I just talked to Buffy, and yeah, I think she's feeling a little... insane. No, not *****y crazy, more like homicidal maniac crazy. So I told her to come see you, 'kay?"
~ Willow

[Le Messor]

Part 3: post volume 1 - volume 3.

Wolverine #83 - 84 - Heather, Mac, and Logan fight, well, let's face it, a werewolf
Wolverine #91 - 92 - Mac is little more than a cameo in 91, but in 92 he and Heather conduct a medical exam of Logan
X-Factor #112-123 - Wild Child is part of X-Factor; the whole team comes to discuss it with him in 116
Wolverine #95 - the Hudsons help Logan fight something
Over The Edge #2 - Michael fights a snow creature with the power of The Mullet! - he's on about three pages, but it's his own fight
Marvel Fanfare v2 #2 - Heather's around when Logan and Hulk fight Wendigo. Again.
Domino #1 - Puck has an extended cameo discussing things with Domino (followed up in a minor appearance in #3).
Sabretooth: Back To Nature - Wildchild talks to Sabretooth before the latter goes off for a fight
Generation X #19 - Walt appears (but doesn't fight) in a story written by sometimes Alpha scribe Scott Lobdell. This is designed to make Alpha look like a bunch of incompetent idiots. Thanks for that
Wolverine #110 - Michael helps Logan defend a family whose parents look exactly like the Hudsons
X-Men Unlimited v2 #12 - story 2 is an extended talk scene between Logan and a very drunk Judd
X-Factor #124-138 - Wildchild is still part of the team
X-Man #27 - 28 - JM gets kidnapped, so Nathan tries to save her
Deadpool #1 - Deadpool fights Walt in the frozen South
Alpha Flight v2 #1-2
Maverick #3 - dunno
Alpha Flight v2 #3-8
Alpha Flight v2 #9 / Uncanny X-Men #355 - the same story, told from the X-Men's pov and the Canadians'; the Canadians try to get Logan back
X-Factor #141-143 - in the last of these, JM begins to recover from the kidnapping and manipulation (see X-Man 27-28, above)
Alpha Flight v2 #10-16
Alpha Flight v2 ann '98
Alpha Flight v2 #17-20 - Alpha Flight appear in the final two issues to fight the gubmint team
Wolverine #142 - 143 - Wolverine and Alpha Flight fight AIM; Snowbird gets brought back from the dead, presumably as a clone since Walt's currently using her body (not like that!); but they say this is her original body
Generation X #58 - the team fight a sasquatch; then Alpha Flight comes to take it home
Uncanny X-Men #359 & 365 - dunno. Something about Michael
Thunderbolts #43 - dunno
Uncanny X-Men #392, X-Men #112, Uncanny X-Men #393, X-Men #113 - Eve of Destruction, where Northstar joins the X-Men; Barry McGuire does not make an appearance
Black Panther #2 #42 - 44 - Alpha make an appearance in 44; I can't see them by flipping through the rest
Citizen V and the V Patrol #2 - I don't have this one
Wolverine #171 - 174 - Wolvie fights Wendy. Quietly. Then AF appear on the last page; in 172 they all fight Wendy. Mickey and (briefly) the Hudsons discuss it all in 173; 174 isn't an appearance, exactly, but Wolvie wears Mac's costume the whole time
Wolverine #179 - 181 - the team and Logan fight a big fat ugly guy; Pathfinder is intro'd. In 180, Wolvie helps Pathfinder to be trained; 181 is not to hand right now.
Deadpool III #57, 60-61 - dunno
Weapon X#1/2 - members get recruited to Weapon X
Weapon X: Sauron + WC + Agent Zero- members get recruited to Weapon X
Weapon X II#1-13 - contain Jeffries, Wildchild, and JM
Uncanny X-Men #414-421 - In 414, JP is recruited as a teacher by Charlie X, has a character moment involving a mutant kid
X-Men Unlimited #45 - this is an Alpha Flight issue, and shouldn't be called X-Men. Ends in Claire's birth, though she won't be named 'til v4.
Uncanny X-Men #422 - 434 - in 422, AF fight the X-Men so they can take a kid back to Canada. In 432-434, they show up in anti-Juggernaut armour for pretty much the same reason.
New Mutants 2 #2-7 - Northstar's around.
Weapon X #18 - dunno
Wolverine III #25-26
New X-Men: Academy X#13
Wolverine 27-31
Nick Fury's Howling Commandos #2 - Sasquatch is on the team; or a sasquatch. Nobody's sure.
Alpha Flight #3 #1 - 12

[Phil]

Right; my extremely rough version I had is:

NORTH 1-4
Hulk 418
Over the Edge 2
Wolverine 83-95
XFac112-123
Uncanny X-Men Annual 1996,
Marvel Fanfare II#6,
Sabretooth Back To Nature #1

My reasoning for having this so high out of publishing order is that Puck's still with Dept. H during it, as with X-factor #116.

DOMINO 1-3
Generation X#19,
M/FAN2 2
Wolv #110

With Domino & Gen X #19 Puck & Walt are quite clearly doing their own things, signalling the end of their time with Dept. H, which leads Puck to be an alcoholic in

X-Men Unlimited II#12/2
Alpha Flight II#1-5,
MAV2 3
AF2 6-8
AF2 9/UX 355
XFAC124-138,
XMan27,28,
XFAC141,142, 143
Deadpool III#1,

My placement of the X-Man & X-Factors with Aurora would be around here rather than at publishing to explain why JP couldn't find her and her extremely fragile mental state in Volume 2.
Same with Deadpool #1 leading to Walt still being in the Arctic to find Mac.

AF II#10-16
AF '98
AFII 17-20,

UXM #359
UX 365

These were REALLY hard to place, as although published a lot earlier if the X-Men were in contact with Shaman surely they'd mention the Alpha Flight they faced in #355, same with Puck & Logan being all pally again.

Wolv142,143
GX#58
UXM379
TB 43
UX 392
X 112
UX 393
X 113
BP3 42-44
CitV #2
Wolv171-175
Wolv179-181

I can't remember off the top of my head why I had the Black Panther's before Wolverine 171+ possibly because of Heather being in the field which would indicate it was before her pregnancy.

Deadpool III#57, 60, 61,
Weapon X#1/2,
Weapon X: Sauron + WC + Agent Zero,
Weapon X II#1-13,
UX 414-421
X-Men Unlimited #45
UXM 422-434
NM2 2-7
Weapon X 18
X-Men 157-164
Weapon X 22,
Wolverine III#25-26
New X-Men: Academy X#13,
Wolverine 27-31,

For me, these would explain why Northstar & Aurora weren't a) with Mac + co when they investigated the Plodex or b) recruited by Walt.

Nick Fury's Howling Commandos#2, 6,

This being before Vol.3 would explain why Walt wasn't with Mac + co

Alpha Flight III1-12,

[Le Messor]

Hulk 418
Wolverine 83-95

Are all those Wolverines appearances?
Isn't Hulk just a cameo (which would explain why it's not in my AF section)?


Sabretooth Back To Nature #1
My reasoning for having this so high out of publishing order is that Puck's still with Dept. H during it, as with X-factor #116.
DOMINO 1-3

My interpretation of Domino #1 is that Puck is (or could be) still working for H. (His only reference is poking into files he shouldn't have.) iirc, he's not in #2.
My interpretation of #3 is 'I don't have it'. It might confirm there's no H by then.
So, I'm moving Gen X 19 down a bit, and Back to Nature up.


Generation X#19,
M/FAN2 2

Heather is working for the Canadian government in this one. Maybe not H, but definitely the government.


Wolv #110
With Domino & Gen X #19 Puck & Walt are quite clearly doing their own things, signalling the end of their time with Dept. H, which leads Puck to be an alcoholic in:
X-Men Unlimited II#12/2

I had kept this one after v3. Moved now.
Does Domino #3 make it clearer that he's doing his own thing?


Alpha Flight II#1-5,
MAV2 3

Why then, as opposed to after #2?


AF2 6-8
... XMan27,28,

I've always thought of this one as a prologue to v2?


XFAC141,142, 143
Deadpool III#1,
My placement of the X-Man & X-Factors with Aurora would be around here rather than at publishing to explain why JP couldn't find her and her extremely fragile mental state in Volume 2.

Which is why I think of them as prologuey.


AFII 17-20,
UXM #359
UX 365
These were REALLY hard to place, as although published a lot earlier if the X-Men were in contact with Shaman surely they'd mention the Alpha Flight they faced in #355, same with Puck & Logan being all pally again.

I cheated, and keep them with X-Men, not Alpha Flight.


BP3 42-44
CitV #2
Wolv171-175
I can't remember off the top of my head why I had the Black Panther's before Wolverine 171+ possibly because of Heather being in the field which would indicate it was before her pregnancy.

Good enough.

Okay, I've incorporated a bunch of changes based off your list. Not everything you suggested, but most of it. A lot of stuff in there I have, but not as part of my AF collection. (eg: Weapon X has its own section in my collection, which is why I haven't remixed it properly.)
A few of them I simply don't have. (Mostly stuff like the X-Men where JP was no longer an Alphan; but I do plan to fix this eventually.)

- Le Messor
Dawn: I feel safe with you.
Spike: Take that back.

[Phil]

Are all those Wolverines appearances?
The Wolverine ones are just listed first AF appearance to last, with the non AF issues for timescale, and cos I couldn't be bothered breaking them up.


Isn't Hulk just a cameo (which would explain why it's not in my AF section)?
Yeah, just JP for a panel.


iirc, he's not in #2.
Yeah, as with the Wolverine issues I just put 1-3 rather than 1,3.


Heather is working for the Canadian government in this one. Maybe not H, but definitely the government.
True, it could pretty much slot in a lot of places. I just needed to have it before #6 which slots in to Kyle's X-Factor timeline.


Does Domino #3 make it clearer that he's doing his own thing?
Not really, there's less of him than in #1.


Why then, as opposed to after #2?
I honestly can't remember... possibly because that's where the storyline in Vol.2 was less static, or possibly just taken from another chrono-site.


I've always thought of this one as a prologue to v2?
Which is why I think of them as prologuey.
Prologuey to JP & JM's part in Vol.2 yeah definitely, but to the timeframe of JP waking up on the boat so they'd probably run simulataneously with the start of Vol.2... or something.


I cheated, and keep them with X-Men, not Alpha Flight.
I like the cut of your jib squire.


Okay, I've incorporated a bunch of changes based off your list. Not everything you suggested, but most of it.
Oh, I'm not saying I'm right, you're wrong.
I like the debate and conversation, that's why I tried to kickstart all this.
Any excuse to let my anal geeky collector side run riot with likeminded souls.


A lot of stuff in there I have, but not as part of my AF collection. (eg: Weapon X has its own section in my collection, which is why I haven't remixed it properly.)
Ditto, which is why it's always useful to have lists like this.
Well, not useful in real-world sense, but y'know...

[Flightpath07]

As a person who basically only collects stuff that has "Alpha Flight" in the title and on the cover, my list would be much shorter (and much easier).

That being said (or at least written - some people sound the words out when they read them, though), I find the subject of this all-inclusive list a fascinating read. It must be the geek in me.

[Le Messor]

The Wolverine ones are just listed first AF appearance to last, with the non AF issues for timescale, and cos I couldn't be bothered breaking them up.

Okay. *Whew*, not something I need to add to my 'Need this' list.


(Domino #3) :Not really, there's less of him than in #1.

I think I knew that at the time, and that's why I never got it.
Or maybe I just got lazy, who knows?


Oh, I'm not saying I'm right, you're wrong.
I like the debate and conversation, that's why I tried to kickstart all this.

You've made several good points, and picked up on clues I've glossed over. So, where you have a point, I'm changing to match. Where I think you don't...
[-( :-\"La la la la la!!! I'm not listening! La la la la!!!


Ditto, which is why it's always useful to have lists like this.
Well, not useful in real-world sense, but y'know...

The real world is for people who can't handle Star Trek.


That being said (or at least written - some people sound the words out when they read them, though), I find the subject of this all-inclusive list a fascinating read. It must be the geek in me.

Glad to help. I like to let my inner geek out to play from time to time. Then again, he keeps getting in trouble.

The next stage will be to redo the list with a brief overview of what happens in each issues (maybe enough of one to say why they go when they go).

- Le Messor
"I know our ways are strange to you, but soon you will join us in the twentieth century, with three whole years to spare."
~ Jenny Calendar

[Le Messor]

Part 4: post vol. 3 - the time of this writing:

There have been continuous appearances mostly by Northstar and Jeffries in X-Men titles for quite some time at this stage. I keep them under X-Men or X-Misc, and as such have never even tried to fit them into AF continuity. Phil, if you've done that, I'll see about working them in.

Sabretooth: Open Season #1 - 4 - Frankly, this should be called Sasquatch: Open Season
New Avengers #16 - 17 (AGH!) - Alpha Flight die. Off-panel. In the snow.
Now let us never speak of it again.
X-Men #189 - 190 - The twins go into a VR journey to the centre of the mind. Steppenwolf don't appear.
X-Men ann #1 (I don't pretend to know what volume or anything this is, but it's got a distinctive painting of the twins on the cover.) - the twins are still in VR, but end with a real-life fight. I think. Really, apart from this one's cover, these stories are completely unmemorable.
She-Hulk #16 - Logan fights Wendigo, but this time with She-Hulk. Talisman helps out - our Talisman, this time.
Wolverine v3 #54 - Every furry mutant in the world is now part of a dog species. Including the cat ones. Including Walter, though he's neither dog-based nor a mutant.
Jeph Loeb is considered a comics superstar.
Civil War: The Initiative - US Agent goes to Canada, to prep for:
Ωmega Flight #1 - 5
Incredible Hercules #117 - 120 - Snowbird helps the fight against the Skrull gods. Gets it on with Hercules.
Chaos War: Alpha Flight oneshot
Chaos War #4 - 5 - after the oneshot, the original team helps out against the Chaos stuff. A little more than a cameo; but they're not dead anymore.
Wolverine v3 #2 - 5 - Logan goes to Hell. Judd is waiting for him.
Alpha Flight v4 #0.1
Alpha Flight v4 #1-8
Hulk #53 - 54 - Alpha help fight the Mayan gods.

Come to think of it, there's not that much there. I could've just made it pre-v1, v1, and post-v1... Oh, well.

- Le Messor

[Le Messor]

I've just added 9.5 to the pre-volume 1 bit on page 1 - after First Flight, before X-Men: First Class. I only just realised it wasn't in there (I didn't even have issue 9 listed in my catalogue, for some reason).

- Le Messor
"The true consolation in life is to say what one thinks."
~ Voltaire

[SmurfInABlender]

This may be douchy of me to request, but is there any way once this is figured out that we could have a list of the type of cameo they are. Maybe just a type of system:

(Main Crossover) - Includes the entire team (At The Time) in a team up fashion and are a huge part of the story
(Semi-Crossover) - Entire team (ATT) crossover on a couple pages
(Team Cameo) - Team just seen in the issue a little but overall having no real point in the story
(*Character*) - Name the character that crosses over. To make it easy a code could be done S Sb M P G V Ns A T Rb Mj Pg Wc Ws (Should be self explanatory what means who.)
(Cameo) - Simply on seen in the issue but not heard and not the full team.

I'm mostly asking because I own UXM #120-121 AF v1 (Missing some key issues in the 100s) v2 and v3 but I don't own any of the other tie-ins and I'd really not like to purchase one if its just North Star waving in a small mid-fight panel right by an advertisement for cologne.

Again, if this is too much to ask, ignore me.

[Phil]

That's the long term plan, we just need to find/create a script/program that covers all the bases.

In the meantime, try Rob's site ( http://alphaflightcollector.wordpress.com/ ) for current guest appearances.

[rplass]

I used to organize the appearances into Cameo, Minor, Medium and Major, covering the categories you mention above. Here is an "almost complete" listing of the Alpha Flight appearances listed into the four categories, a little badly formatted, and a little incomplete but a good starting point. The list ends around 2009 when I started up a different format. All rankings are completely subjective so please no flames about misplaced issues

Cameo
Alter Ego 71
Amazing Spiderman Ann 15(1981)
Amazing X-Men 1
Astonishing Tales 3
Astonishing X-Men 1
Avengers 249 320
Avengers III 1 10 47
Avengers Forever 11 12
Avengers/JLA 3
Back Issue 32
Beyond! 4 5
Bill Mantlo: A Life in Comics No issue #
Black Panther II 42 44
Blackwulf 5
Bullet Points 5
Citizen V: The Everlasting 3
Civil War 7 Chronicles 5 10 Files Opening Shot Sketchbook Poster Book
Classic X-Men 44
Contest of Champions 2
Damage Control III 4
Deadpool and Death Ann 1998
Death Metal 1
Death Metal vs. Genetix 2
Dr. Strange III 1 2 55 56
Encyclopædia Deadpoolica 1
Fantastic Four 266 267 268 367 369 370 405
Fantastic Four Roast 1
Fred Hembeck Destroys the Marvel Universe 1
Gambit and the X-Ternals 1
Generation X 58
G.L.A. 2
House of M 6
Incredible Hercules 126
Incredible Hulk 277 278 279 312 418
Infinity Gauntlet 2
Marvel Age 33
Marvel Atlas 2
Marvel Comics Presents II 8 11
Marvel Fanfare 29
Marvel Holiday Special 1 (1991)
Marvel Knights: Spider-Man 2
Marvel Masterpieces 2
Marvel Masterpieces II 1
Marvel Riot 1
Marvel's Greatest Collections 2009 1
Marvel Spotlight Steve McNiven/Mark Millar 6 Uncanny X-Men 500 Issues 31 Wolverine
Marvel TV: Galactus - The Real Story 1
Marvel Two-In-One 96
Marvel Universe: The End 1 5 6
Marvel: Your Universe 1
Marvel: Your Universe Saga 1
Marvel Zombies - The Book of Angels, Demons & Various Monstrosities no issue #
Mephisto vs... 3
Mighty Avengers 21 23
Moon Knight III 43 57
Ms. Marvel II 1
Mutant X 12 28
Namor 1 36 49
New Avengers 17 18 20 37 45 47
New Excalibur 9
New Mutants II 4
New Warriors 27
New X-Men: Academy X 10 16
Nick Fury's Howling Commandos 6
OHOTMU A-Z Hardcover 2
Marvel Legacy The 1990s
Alternate Universes
Ultimate Universe
Official Index to the Marvel Universe 3
Official Marvel Index to the X-Men II 2 3
Paradise X 0 78 9 11 Special Edition
Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe 1
Quasar 23 24 25 38 50
Ruins 1
One-Shot 1
Sabretooth III 1
Secret Invasion Poster Book No issue #
Secret Invasion: X-Men 2
Secrets of the House of M One Shot
Silver Sable & The Wild Pack 4 5
Silver Surfer Ann 2(1989)
Speed Demon 1
Spider-Man 12
Stan Lee Meets Doctor Strange 1
Strange Tales II 14
Sunfire & Big Hero 6 1
Thor 390 464
Top Ten 8
Ultimate Fantastic Four 23
Ultimate X-Men 70 71 81 88
Uncanny X-Men 138 236 365 379 401 425 437 500 Issues Poster Book
Universe X 2 4 11 X
Warlock Chronicles 2
Warlock & the Infinity Watch 8 18 19
Weapon X II The Draft - Agent Zero 16 19 25
First Class 1
Web of Spider-Man 104
West Coast Avengers 1
What If... II 1 7 23 30 47 101 111
What If? Secret Wars
Wolverine: Enemy of the State
X-Men: Deadly Genesis
What The-?! 1 2 5 6 9
Wolverine II 50 129 145 171 174 176
Wolverine III 31
Wolverine: Days of Future Past 2
Wolverine Saga II No issue #
Wolverine Ultimate Sticker Book No issue #
Wonder Man 13 14 15
X-51 0 12
X-Factor 137 138
X-Man 40
X-Men II
(formerly "New X-Men") 112 140 157 183 188 200
X-Men Alpha No issue #
X-Men Chronicles 1
X-Men Millennial Visions 2001
X-Men Noir 3 4
X-Men Omega No issue #
X-Men Poster Book No issue # (2006)
X-Men: The 198 4
X-Men The End - Book Three:
Men & X-Men 6
X-Men Universe 4
X-Men Unlimited 11 25
Young Avengers 12
Young Guns '09 Sketchbook no issue #

Minor
Age of Apocalypse:
The Chosen 1
Adventures of the X-Men 1
Amazing Spiderman Ann 26(1992)
Amazing X-Men 2 4
Astonishing X-Men 2
Avengers 282 285 288 290
Avengers/JLA 4
Black Panther II 43
Civil War Battle Damage Report
Civil Wardrobe 1
Contest of Champions 1
Darkhawk 31
Deadpool 25
Deadpool: Agent of Weapon X 1
Deadpool: Funeral for a Freak 1
Death Metal vs. Genetix 1
Dr. Strange III 47
Domino 3
Factor X 2
Fantastic Four 220 261 368
Generation X 19
Incredible Hulk 273
Infinity Crusade 1 4 6
Infinity War 1 2 3 4 5 6
Iron Man 195 196
Marvel Comics Presents II 9 12
Marvel Fanfare II 2 6
Marvel Portraits of a Universe 3
Marvel Spotlight Civil War: Aftermath 15
Marvel Vision 19
Marvel Zombies: Dead Days 1
Modern Masters 7
Moon Knight III 41
Mutant X 30 31
New Mutants II 2 7 8
New Thunderbolts 11
Nick Fury's Howling Commandos 2
OHOTMU 1 4 7 8 9 10
A-Z 1 2 3 5 6 8 9 12
A-Z Update 1 2 3 4
A-Z Hardcover 1 3
Deluxe Edition 1 2 6 8 9 10 11 13 14 17 19
Marvel Legacy The 1980s
Master Edition 1 13 17 19 22 26 27
Update '89 1 2 3 4 5 7
Age of Apocalypse
Mystic Arcana
Teams
X-Men
Women of Marvel
Paradise X 2 4 6
Power Pack 9
ROM: Spaceknight 58
Secret Wars II 9
Tales from the AOA: Sinister Bloodlines No issue #
Thunderbolts 43
Ultimate X-Men 62 63 65 69 79 80 97
Uncanny X-Men 147 359 403 416 420 421 431 432 434
Universe X 6 9
Warlock & the Infinity Watch 20
Weapon X 2
Weapon X II The Draft - Sauron 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 17
Days of Future Now 1 2 4 5
Web of Spider-Man 105 Ann 8(1992)
What If... 31 34
What If... II 6 60 79
Wolverine II -1 91
Wolverine III 30 56
Wolverine/Cable: Guts 'n' Glory 1
Wolverine Encyclopedia 1 2
Wolverine: Killing Made Simple 1
Wolverine Origins 33
Wolverine Saga 1 2 3
X-Factor -1 115 117 121 127 130 133 136 141 143
X-Man 27
X-Men: The 198 Files No issue #
X-Men The End - Book Two:
Heroes & Martyrs 1
X-Men: The Manga 13 14
X-Men Unlimited 15

Medium
Astonishing X-Men 3 4
Avengers 286 287 289 291 292
Civil War Initiative 1
Contest of Champions 3
Deadpool: Agent of Weapon X 4
Dr. Strange III 46
Domino 1
Factor X 1
Incredible Hercules 117 118 119 120
Infinity Crusade 2 3 5
Marvel Adventures: Iron Man 11
Marvel Comics Presents II 3
Marvel Saga 1
Marvel Two-In-One Ann 7(1982)
Mutant X 3 29
OHOTMU Wolverine
Over The Edge 2
Peter Porker: The Spectacular Spider-Ham 6
ROM: Spaceknight 56
Saga of the Sub-Mariner 12
She Hulk II 16
Ultimate X-Men 46 47 61 64 94 95 98 99
Uncanny X-Men 392 393 417 418 419 433 505 506 507 Ann1996
Weapon X II 1/2 1 2 3 4 12 13 18
Days of Future Now 3
Web of Spider-Man 106
What If... II 62
What The-?! 7
Wolverine II 36 76 77 83 84 144
Wolverine III 26 27 53 54 55
Wolverine Origins 15
X-Factor 112 113 114 120 122 123 124 125 126 128 129 132 134 135
X-Infernus 1 2 3 4
X-Man 28
X-Men II
(formerly "New X-Men") 113 163 164
X-Men: Age of Apocalypse One-shot 2
X-Men: Divided We Stand 1
X-Men The End - Book One:
Dreamers & Demons 6

Major
Avengers 272 293 321 322 323 324
Classic X-Men 16 26 27 45
Crystar 11
Deadpool 1
Death Metal 2
Incredible Hulk 272 313 Ann 8(1979)
Iron Man 195
Machine Man 18
Marvel Age 2
Marvel Comics Presents 51 52 53 92 99
Marvel Fanfare 28
Marvel Team-Up Ann 7(1984)
Marvel Two-In-One 83 84
Maverick 3
Namor 61
New Avengers 16
New X-Men: Academy X 13
Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 32
Northstar 1 2 3 4
Omega Flight 1 2 3 4 5
Power Pack 10
ROM: Spaceknight 57
Sabretooth III 2 3 4
Sabretooth: Back to Nature 1
Secret Defenders 11
Secret Wars II 4
Uncanny X-Men 109 120 121 139 140 355 405 414 415 422
Weapon X II The Draft - Wild Child 22
What If... II 59
Wolverine II 35 37 92 95 110 142 143 172 173 179 180
Wolverine III 25 28
Wolverine: First Class 5
X-Factor 116 119 142
X-Men II 189 190 Ann (2007)
X-Men/Alpha Flight I 1 2
X-Men/Alpha Flight II 1 2
X-Men Classic 46
X-Men Unlimited 45
X-Men Unlimited II 12

[Phil]

So Rob, what was the 1979 appearance you teased me with at NYCC?

[Le Messor]

This may be douchy of me to request, but is there any way once this is figured out that we could have a list of the type of cameo they are. Maybe just a type of system:
(Main Crossover) - Includes the entire team (At The Time) in a team up fashion and are a huge part of the story
(Semi-Crossover) - Entire team (ATT) crossover on a couple pages
(Team Cameo) - Team just seen in the issue a little but overall having no real point in the story
(*Character*) - Name the character that crosses over. To make it easy a code could be done S Sb M P G V Ns A T Rb Mj Pg Wc Ws (Should be self explanatory what means who.)
(Cameo) - Simply on seen in the issue but not heard and not the full team.

I'm mostly asking because I own UXM #120-121 AF v1 (Missing some key issues in the 100s) v2 and v3 but I don't own any of the other tie-ins and I'd really not like to purchase one if its just North Star waving in a small mid-fight panel right by an advertisement for cologne.

Again, if this is too much to ask, ignore me.

Smurf, given the amount of time that's passed (nearly a year!) I doubt this'll help, but...
1) I want that kind of listing, too. So not douchy at all.
From a certain point of view.
2) None of the ones I've listed are just single panel Northstar floating by type cameos. The Appearances list, which is far more comprehensive, has those, but not the Chronology.
3) I may get to work soon on your request. (I'd also like to see it, as mentioned.) I can probably get pretty far just on memory. Then be corrected because my memory's faulty. What do you mean, that wasn't Alpha Flight in Detective Comics #27?

- Le Messor
"If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself."
~ Dr. Porsche

[Phil]

I am working on something that'll encorporate all of the above, but it'll take a while. Having the site as it is now, rather than not at all is more of a priority.

[Le Messor]

Definitely... but I was thinking of me just editing the chronology. You wouldn't have to do anything... though your editing so far has been invaluable.
Yes, I could probably better use the time de-catting my shoulders, but what can ya do?

- Le Messor
"If Mohammed can't go to the mountain, then that's his problem."

[Le Messor]

I have begun work on giving a little detail about these things.
Despite my earlier promise, there were two single-member, single-panel cameos (Talisman in Silver Surfer ann #2; and Northstar in Incredible Hulk #318; I have now deleted them.)

The post-v1, pre-v4 lot could use some work. A few issues in there that I'd have to go to another room to look through.

- Le Messor
"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them."
~ Yogi Berra (attrib)

[rplass]

So; are we counting Wolverine:Origin Of An X-Man (FCBD) as canon then?
Does this clash with any of the Byrne origin of Madison?

The recent issue of Wolverine, Punisher & Ghost Rider: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #8 confirms it is canon and it is placed earlier than indicated in this post, except for the last pages which are nearer to Hulk #180 of course.

[Flightpath07]

I have begun work on giving a little detail about these things.

You're the man!



A few issues in there that I'd have to go to another room to look through.

So yuo keep them in your washroom, then?

[Le Messor]

The recent issue of Wolverine, Punisher & Ghost Rider: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #8 confirms it is canon and it is placed earlier than indicated in this post, except for the last pages which are nearer to Hulk #180 of course.

Cool - any idea of when?


You're the man!

I do my best. :oops:


So yuo keep them in your washroom, then?

Comics? In the washroom?!? With all that water!
NO!!!

I keep them in the basement, with a couple of chained up kidnap victims.
I didn't say that last part.

- Le Messor
"If the plural of "mouse" is "mice", shouldn't the plural of "house" be "hice"?"

[Flightpath07]

I thought the plural of mouse was "meeses".

Say hi to JB next time you're in the basement. ;)

[Phil]

The binding thread has made me look at this thread a lot.

[Le Messor]

I was going to use a three-ring binder, but it turns out it only takes one ring to bind them.

I've often been tempted to clip my comics page-by-page and put them in chronological order.
Don't worry, if I ever really did anything like that, it'd be electronically; and most of them would still escape intact, but I'd probably mix Machine Man #18 and UXM #139 / 140, and all the Wolverine-just-before-Gt-Size-#1 stories.

- Le Messor
"He that expected nothing is never disappointed."
~ W.G.P.

[Phil]

Right... I'm going to be trying to break this down A LOT in the near future.

Gonna start with pre-Guardian Mac...

[Le Messor]

I'd hoped we'd covered most of that, but if there's more work to do, cool.

I admit, I forgot about that one X-Men brief flashback (#147 was it?).

[Phil]

Right...

Where I've used = it means the panel is happening simulataneously, usually a flashback of the original one.
Where I've used vs it means that the two appearances completely contradict one another timewise.

There are a few minor quibbles that I've ignored; usually involving Wolverine's codename (Weapon X vs Wolverine) and Mac's use of suit is very hard to pin down.

This is by no means definitive as there are tons more to search through, but primarily going on Mac appearances up until the end of AF(I) #1:

AF 5.2
AF 6.2
AF 7.2
AF -1 Pg.3,
AF -1 Pg.4panel1-3 = AF 2.2 Pg.1-Pg.2panel1-3
AF 2.2 Pg.2panel4-Pg.5panel1
AF 2.2 Pg5panel2-5 = AF -1 Pg.4panel4-5
AF 3.2 Pg.1-Pg.3panel3
AF 3.2 Pg.3panel4 = AF -1 Pg.4panel6
AF 3.2 Pg3panel5-Pg.4panel3
AF -1 Pg.5panel1
AF 3.2 Pg.4panel4-Pg.5panel1
AF -1 Pg.5panel2-Pg.8
AF 34 Pg.10panel3-5
AF -1 Pg.9panel1-3
Wolv 92 Pg.10panel4-Pg.11panel2
AF -1 Pg.9panel4-5 = AF 33 Pg.14panel1-2 = Wolv 92 Pg.11panel3-4
AF -1 Pg.9panel6-Pg.10 = AF 33 Pg.14panel3-6 = AF 34 Pg.11panel1 = Wolv -1 Pg.3panel2 = W:FC 5 Pg.2panel5 = many more
AF 33 Pg.15-17
AF 33 Pg.18-Pg19panel4 = AF 34.Pg11panel2-3 = Wolv -1 Pg.3panel3
AF -1 Pg.11
AF 3.2 Pg5panel2
Wolv -1
UXM 147
AF -1 Pg.12-21
AF -1 Pg.1-2
AF -1 Pg.22-23
FCBD Wolverine Pg.1-21
AF 3.2 Pg5panel3-4
AF 52 Pg.3
AF 52 Pg.7panel4-Pg.9
AF 8.2
AF(II) 14 Pg.11panel1
Alpha Flight Special
Wolverine/Cable
AF 127.2 Pg.4
AF 9.2
W:FC Pg.3panel2-Pg.17
AF 10.2
FCBD Wolverine Pg.22 = Hulk 180-181
AF 3.2 Pg5panel5
AF 51 Pg.18panel6
Deadpool/Death '98
AF 53 Pg.10panel4-Pg.11panel3
W:FC 5 Pg.18
AF 52 Pg.4panel2-5 vs UXM 140 Pg.11panel4-6
W:FC 5 Pg.19 = GSXM 1
AF 17 Pg.1-3
AF 17 Pg.5-Pg.6panel4 = CLXM Pg.12panel4
CLXM 16 Pg.6
UXM 109 Pg.9panel4
AF 17 Pg.8panel4-6
UXM 109 Pg.10-17panel1 = CLXM Pg.13-20panel1
AF 17 Pg.16panel3-6
CLXM 16 Pg.21
AF11.2
AF 92Pg.6panel5-Pg.26
UXM 120 Pg.1-2
CLXM 26 Pg.3
UXM 120 Pg.3-6
UXM 120 Pg.7panel6 = AF(II) 14 Pg.10panel2
UXM 120 Pg.7panel7-Pg.17
UXM 121
CLXM 27 Pg.20
IHulk Ann8 Pg.10
FF 220
IHulk Ann8 Pg.1-9,11-34
UXM 139 / MM 18
UXM 140 Pg.1-Pg8.panel1
UXM 140 Pg.8panel2 = AF 1 Pg.2panel2
UXM 140 Pg.8panel3-Pg.11panel3
UXM 140 Pg.12-15
UXM 140 Pg.16panel1 = AF 1 Pg.2panel3
UXM 140 Pg.16panel2-Pg.20
UXM 140 Pg 21panel1-3 vs AF 51 Pg.19panel2
UXM 140 Pg.21panel4 = AF 1 Pg.2panel4
W:FC 5 Pg.1-2panel4, Pg.20-21
MT-I-O 84-85
CoC 1-3
IH 272-279
AF 1 Pg.1-Pg.2panel1
AF 1 Pg.3-30
AF 1 Pg.31 = AF(II) 14 Pg.10panel3
AF 1 Pg.32-38
AF(II) 14 Pg.7panel2-3

I've added in the 5.2-7.2 even without Mac as we know that chronologically they come first for Heather's age.
The flashback page in IHulk Annual 8 is very hard to pin down given Mac's use of Vindicator, but I've put it and FF 220 before UXM 139-140 as he's Government employed.
As before the Marvel Two-In-One, Contest of Champions and IHulk 272-279 issues are awkward to place due to the lack of Marrina & Puck (obviously as the issues were created before AF 1, but that was potentially set before) so they may be shuffled about later on.

Anyway, 6 hours well spent...

[rplass]

Phil, wasn't this already done on another site?

http://www.chronologyproject.com/w.php#WEAPON_ALPHA

http://www.chronologyproject.com/v.php#VINDICATOR

http://www.chronologyproject.com/g.php#GUARDIAN_II

Anyway, chronology gives me headache. But good luck with it. Lemme know if you need any indexing info.

[Flightpath07]

Phil, wasn't this already done on another site?

http://www.chronologyproject.com/w.php#WEAPON_ALPHA

http://www.chronologyproject.com/v.php#VINDICATOR

http://www.chronologyproject.com/g.php#GUARDIAN_II

Anyway, chronology gives me headache. But good luck with it. Lemme know if you need any indexing info.

Yup, looks like it was already done. Hm..."Guardian II" always makes me think we are talking about Delphine's Guardian...or the clone Guardian.

[Phil]

Phil, wasn't this already done on another site?

Yeah, I consulted it and http://www.marvunapp.com/master/mastguid.htm after I'd made my list and changed a few things because of them, but there are still some glaring errors, contradictions of indexes and lack of detail in parts so I wanted to go over it all for my own peace of mind, plus it's broken down into characters so I want this to eventually be one flowing list of everyone. And it gave me an excuse to re-read loads of stuff and spread all the issues out over the floor.

[Le Messor]

Well done, Phil, and thank you! I know how hard this kind of thing is.
I think, since the book already showed different teams for each mission, the lack of Puck and Marrina can be safely ignored.

~ Le Messor
Miss Wormwood: Calvin, can you tell us what Lewis and Clark did?
Calvin: No, but I can recite the secret superhero origin of each member of Captain Napalm's Thermonuclear League of Liberty.

[Flightpath07]

Captain Napalm's Thermonuclear League of Liberty

Put it in a comic; I'll buy it!

[Le Messor]

Well, I'll need Bill Waterson's permission first...

[Flightpath07]

*facepalm*

[Le Messor]

I've just moved Contest of Champions before Uncanny #139-140 / Machine Man #18, because UX140 was where the team was split up, and they seem to still be together in CoC. Also, I wanted them to have at least one roughly successful adventure before their split-up.

[Phil]

As both Kitty and Cyclops are in the team and Jean isn't X-Men chronology put's it after UXM 161 and just before Hulk 277-9.
However, as you say the team are clearly together and Wolverine calls Mac Vindicator so it's always been a tricky one to place.

[Le Messor]

Gah! Just to complicate matters!

I hadn't even considered what the X-Men's side of things was.

I think I'll keep my new order, though. Partly because it is so difficult already, partly because I prefer to go by Alpha Flight alone (though we could put it after #1 - but where did they get the plane, then?), partly because I don't like to get rid of my CDs and my Best of New Order isn't a bad one.

[Mekko Hotvle]

This all confused me. lol.

[Le Messor]

Lol! It would... As the thread should demonstrate, it's confusing to all of us!

I wouldn't worry about it yet, though. You'll have to fill in all your gaps before it's even a problem for you.

~ Le Messor
"Can't act. Can't sing. Slightly bald. Can dance a little."
~ A film company's verdict on Fred Astaire's 1928 screen test

[Le Messor]

I just found this, just to complicate matters further:
http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/groups.php?group_name=77

I don't agree with his orderings, though (#1 takes place right before #2 in his version, though it's been stated to be several months earlier).

[rplass]

That's a reading order, not a character chronology. What reading order would you suggest if you don't want to read #1 then #2?

[Le Messor]

It looked like an attempt at a chronological reading order.:confused:

Suggestion:
Alpha Flight #1
Marvel Two-In-One #83 - 84 - Thing needs Walt's help as a biochemist, fights Sas; then they get together with the team (minus Puck and Marrina, who hadn't been invented yet) to fight proto-Great Beast Ranark
Incredible Hulk #279 - Big crowd scene; Hulk gets accepted by the world, and AF is there. They make a mini-speech
Marvel Two-In-One ann 7 - The Champion takes on all the strong guys, including Sas who has a decent-sized role
Rom Spaceknight #56 - 58 - AF help Rom fight Wraiths in Canada. The final issue is one of those where they're still around to follow up the previous ones, but don't really have a role. Byrne covers on 56 and 57.
Alpha Flight #2

Some of those are on the new list before #1.

[Le Messor]

Garry PM'd me a while ago to let me know I made a mistake on the first page: it's Madame Menace, not Madame Masque who they fight in Machine Man #18. I haven't been able to edit the post, but thought I'd post this at a completely random moment.

[SpaceGuardian]

Just came across "Wolverine Season 1" from a few years back. Do we consider it canon? There definitely are bits of it that can be dropped into the timeline without disrupting too too much.

[Phil]

It's definitely not canon, but a great read nonetheless.
http://alphaflight.net/content.php?752-Review-Wolverine-Season-One