Favourite/Least Favourite member of AF

[Phil]

Yes, there's a 'u' in there. :p

I know it's something we've all mentioned at one point, probably in the joining questionnaire, but just to get conversation flowing and to give new members a clean thread to join in to;

Who is your favourite member of the Alpha Flight family (past & present; Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Omega, Villains or associated) and why?

Who is your least favourite and why?

[Ben]

Favourite: Sasquatch. He's got lots of personality, has had to make some difficult choices, and has some significant imperfections
Least Favourite: Major Mapleleaf. This character takes Canadian stereotypes to the point of being insulting. I took it as tongue in cheek for a while, but in hind-sight, he bothers the hell outta me.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Favourite: Shaman - to overcome personal and professional travesty to become a force for good...well, that's a hero.
Least Favourite: Goblyn - nowhere near a substitute for "Wolverine"

[DelBubs]

Favorite, hard because the first eleven members of AF (The Byrne creations) all had likeable qualities. That said, Talisman stands out. Feisty, independent and not impaired by the events of her life unlike the others.
Least Favourite. Radius and Murmur immediately come to mind. Caricatures of Northstar and Aurora imho, made me very uninterested in them as characters.

[suzene]

Ooo, fun. Can we get threads for favorite/least favorite villains and storylines too? *puppy eyes*

Favorite: Northstar. To start with, I can’t identify with overly altruistic heroes. Admire, yes. Connect with, no. But make no mistake, I do consider Northstar a hero. He’s never needed to be involved in any of the spandex stuff. He had fame, adoration, and fortune well before he heard of Alpha Flight. And yet he dropped it to look after a sister he never knew existed. He’s made a success of himself outside of the superhero life and sometimes in spite of it — hell, if anything, he’s living Xavier’s dream on a day-to-day basis — but he keeps coming back to throw his weight in behind the lifers who know nothing but the fight, despite what it costs him. He’s not nice. He’s arrogant. He’s quick to let people know he thinks he’s better than they are (and a lot of times, the attitude is even justified). But being a hero is about sacrifice, and, so far as I’m concerned, Northstar’s more than done his bit on that count.

I also identify with him in the role of older sibling, both in the text and on a more meta level. Trying to look after his sister has been a mostly thankless task and, meta-wise, I definitely get a jolt of empathy from the fact that he was the first mainstream gay superhero — the first one is always the one the “parents” make all of the mistakes with, and lord knows Northstar’s had to deal with some doozies from the writers, even as far back as Byrne.


And I’m also just plain old contrary some days — the more both sides of the aisle hate the guy, the more I’m determined to like him. ;)


Least Favorite: Sasquatch. I know some folks here love Walter, so I'll just leave it at not liking him.

[Legerd]

Favourite: Box IV, Madison's transformer version. I like him the most because he was a unique character; a mutant with tech morphing powers who could merge with a living robot, and thereby morph the robot into whatever he could imagine. Potentially, he was the most powerful Alphan going.

Least Favourite: Any of the faux Alphans from the second or third series. I honestly can't pick one.

[Alpha Rider]

I do consider Northstar a hero. He’s never needed to be involved in any of the spandex stuff. .

But was involved with Spandex Stuff. He was an Olympic Skier. :razz:

[suzene]

But was involved with Spandex Stuff. He was an Olympic Skier. :razz:

Alas for the family-friendly nature of the board forbidding me from using my favorite LOLcat response... :rolleyes:

[Phil]

Ooo, fun. Can we get threads for favorite/least favorite villains and storylines too? *puppy eyes*
You can make whatever threads you want no need for the yes! :p

[Le Messor]

Favourite? So hard to choose, but today, Heather. She's so heroic and yet 'real'. Somebody we can look up to. (Less so under Mantlo, but still...)


Least Favourite: Any of the faux Alphans from the second... series.

Tha's what I was gonna say!

- Le Messor
"Every house guest brings you happiness: some when they arrive and some when they are leaving."
~ Confucius

[Tawmis]

Who is your favourite member of the Alpha Flight family (past & present; Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Omega, Villains or associated) and why?
Who is your least favourite and why?

Favorite: It's always a mash up between Snowbird and Shaman. I love both of those characters, with Sasquatch coming in a very second close. Followed by Aurora and Northstar. Used to be Guardian/Mac in there - but he's been tinkered with so much, I lost interest. And if we're including all versions, Beta Ray Bill would be there as well - flying next to Sas, if not a hair ahead.

Least Favorite:
Does Earthmover count? If so, he probably takes the top. He comes across as an attempt to oust Shaman and take his place without logic.
If he doesn't count - without a doubt Manikin takes the cake. There are no words to describe my dislike of that character that would do my seething hatred any justice.

[berserkerclaw]

Favorite would be puck hes a fun charactor with a cool additude and personality and look least fave probably any one from vol 3 even though i dont have first hand experience since not reading it

[cmdrkoenig67]

I really like most of the Byrne characters, but my favorite is probably Heather. She's always had a strong will, was brave and a fighter even before she put on the power suit and she always had the Alpha Flight co-creator and "team mom" vibe (which in no way is a bad thing) going on. Her road to becoming leader of Alpha (under Byrne) was a great storyline.

I really didn't like any of the Volume 2 newbies, but my least favourite would have to be Murmur (she just had "hero mash-up, rip-off" written all over her).

Dana

[Mokole]

Favorite: tough, Box, Feedback lead the way I guess.
Least: Pointer or USAgent won't count, neither part of AF, so that's tough too, Sant Elmo was pretty pointless

[Canucklehead]

Favorite: Byrne's Madison Jeffries. Just a simple, uneducated, unattractive, ditch digger with incredible power. Before he became a handsome transformer prone to brainwashing and strange facial hair.

Least Favorite: There were a lot of terrible, pointless creations post-Byrne in Alpha Flight. Silver, Auric, Goblyn, Wyre, Stitch!? Ugh. But worst of all has to be Manikin. No doubt about it. I'd pay good money to read a comic where he dies on panel. Just an unheroic, senseless death. Kicked by a horse or something.

[Ryan Maxwell]

Up through issue 28, 'cause I refuse to believe the series went on without Byrne:
Favorite - Guardian. My all-time favorite comic book character ever. AF 11 was my very first superhero comic.
Least - Marrina. She didn't seem to be heroic in any way, just a thorn in the side of the team (and Puck, especially).

[Alpha Rider]

Up through issue 28, 'cause I refuse to believe the series went on without Byrne:
Favorite - Guardian. My all-time favorite comic book character ever. AF 11 was my very first superhero comic.
Least - Marrina. She didn't seem to be heroic in any way, just a thorn in the side of the team (and Puck, especially).

More like the gut instead.

[Le Messor]

Favorite - Guardian. My all-time favorite comic book character ever. AF 11 was my very first superhero comic.

That's... kinda sad, in retrospect.


Least - Marrina. She didn't seem to be heroic in any way, just a thorn in the side of the team (and Puck, especially).

More like the gut instead.

A little more than a thorn, too...

- Le Messor
"Wherever I climb I am followed by a dog called 'Ego'."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

[Tawmis]

Least Favorite: There were a lot of terrible, pointless creations post-Byrne in Alpha Flight. Silver, Auric, Goblyn, Wyre, Stitch!? Ugh. But worst of all has to be Manikin. No doubt about it. I'd pay good money to read a comic where he dies on panel. Just an unheroic, senseless death. Kicked by a horse or something.

LOL! We agree about Manikin.

But for Goblyn, at least SOME effort went into making her an interesting character with a unique origin. I have to give points there, even though I am not a Goblyn fan myself. The uniqueness she presented for origin purposes gets points. As for Wyre, I believe he was created as someone who could provide a threat for Wildchild. (Keep in mind, this is why Alpha Flight was originally created; to provide a threat for the X-Men). Although, Wyre seemed like a cross breed of Wolverine and Cable.

[Alpha Rider]

God! I hate Man Kind with a passion.
Oh I mean Manikin. I hate Manikin with such a passion. I hope he trips over his proto-plasmic turd and crack his head open and dies.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...
Least Favorite: There were a lot of terrible, pointless creations post-Byrne in Alpha Flight. Silver, Auric, Goblyn, Wyre, Stitch!? Ugh. But worst of all has to be Manikin. No doubt about it. I'd pay good money to read a comic where he dies on panel. Just an unheroic, senseless death. Kicked by a horse or something.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. The Mantlo era committed sequential art malpractice, month in and month out. It still amazes me that # 43 is out-of-sequence (Northstar references a kiss by Pestilence that doesn't happen until # 44) and this is just the beginning of the stuff that doesn't make a lick of sense.

Despite being created "just to survive a fight with the X-Men" [no small feat when you think about who was on the team at that time], the (pre-)Bryne era implemented some plausibility and common sense into the stories...something that the Mantlo era did not make a very serious attempt to do.

[Sypes]

Favorites are tied: Northstar, Sasquatch, Box (Madison Jefferie)
Least favorites: Centenial (the list goes on... Major Mapleleaf II, Dreamqueen..)

[SmurfInABlender]

Favorite - The Tandom of Roger Bochs and Madison Jeffries pre-Bochs Death. I love the friendship they built, and I especially loved the concept behind Roger Bochs. Sure, Jeffries' version was more "superhero like" but it was less poetic. If they had kept Bochs alive there could have been some really cool tag-team ideas build where the two could work together.

Least Favorite - Gotta also go with Manikin here. I mean, it was just gross and seemed like his entire purpose or story was all for shock/creepy value. I hated him.

An interesting point would be, depending on the writer, "Purple Girl" was either my least favorite or close to favorite. Some writers played her off well while other made her SUPER annoying.

[Phil]

I just realised I never actually answered.
However, my choices are gonna seem cliché but they're exactly the same as Ben's.

I do have a fondness for Wildchild as well though.

[weaponAlpha]

my fave alpha is defiantly Sasquatch , when I was a kid I loved his cocky attitude in that hulk annual and in contest of champions the worst alpha member ever is a tie manikin and manbot

[eallison]

My favorite used to be Snowbird. She fell into the exotic female category of characters like Storm and Starfire, but over time, that's changed.

I think my alltime favorite Alphan is Marrina Smallwood. Not so much for what was done to her, but for her potential. I loved that the nature versus nurture debate was pretty much personified in her (although I wish nurture had won out), and her being a small-town girl was a really nice touch. That she grew up without any of the angst or self-loathing that one would likely see had the character been created in today's comics climate was another nice touch.

It just seemed like no one really knew what to do with her. Marry her off to Namor. Turn her into a sea-monster, and then kill her (twice).

I would have loved to see her stay the sweet, even-tempered small-town girl. Heh. The literal small fish in a big pond, as it were :) Ah, well, there's always fanfic for that :)

Not sure what to make of Marrina 2.0 in the new series quite yet, but I'll wait and see.

Least-favorite? I never read religiously after Byrne left, and didn't read anything after Alpha 1.0, so it's a toughie.

I think maybe Wild Child, because I (admittedly, maybe unfairly, since I assume a lot of work was done with him later in the series) saw him as basically another Wolverine.

Take it and run,

[Ahab]

God! I hate Man Kind with a passion.
Oh I mean Manikin. I hate Manikin with such a passion. I hope he trips over his proto-plasmic turd and crack his head open and dies.

It's funny. I always assumed his name to be a play on "Man and kin" though your reference works too.
Regardless, I still liked the character, in that I liked the young doctor aspect of it.
I think Manbot was worse. He made no sense to me, since I always thought Jeffries was why the armor could mutate.

[DelBubs]

I also took it as Manikin as reference to Many Kin. I too preferred him to Manbot

[rplass]

Oh come on guys! The Manikin hate is such a downer... Ain't no love for Highbrow, Apeman nor Proto!?!?! Well, I've got enough to go around. Those guys are awesome! And Manikin is a play on "Mannequin", a life-sized human form you might see in a department store window.

Think about it, the guy has the ability summon three time-phased versions of himself, one being primitively super strong and agile, the other a high-tech futuristic smarts guy and the third is a giant blob of semi-intelligent jelly who can shoot acid out of his pseudopods! How can you get any better than that??!? He's like 3 superheroes all in one and he can kick butt three different ways!!! I'd love to see him come back. One of my favorites!

[Phil]

I'd take Manikin over any of the (new)Vol.3 characters in a heartbeat.

[DelBubs]

I'd take Manikin over any of the (new)Vol.3 characters in a heartbeat. Absolutely, plus apart from Flex, all the newbies in vol 2.

[Alpha Rider]

It's funny. I always assumed his name to be a play on "Man and kin" though your reference works too.
Regardless, I still liked the character, in that I liked the young doctor aspect of it.
I think Manbot was worse. He made no sense to me, since I always thought Jeffries was why the armor could mutate.
Manikin always struck me as Doogie Howser with powers. Manbot was a metal trud with feet, but because he did less, and was used to spy on AF he's a bit better than Manikin.

[Ahab]

Oh come on guys! The Manikin hate is such a downer... Ain't no love for Highbrow, Apeman nor Proto!?!?! Well, I've got enough to go around. Those guys are awesome! And Manikin is a play on "Mannequin", a life-sized human form you might see in a department store window.

Rob, that's what I assumed in the beginning when he was first mentioned as the next member of Beta Flight (in an issue of Marvel Age I believe). I even thought his powers might have something to do with halting motion in others. Then they introduced him in the comic and his powers were entirely different than anything I expected. If that is really what the name refers to, I don't get it.

[Ahab]

Absolutely, plus apart from Flex, all the newbies in vol 2.

I loved Flex. Then again, I loved the concept of Centennial. You don't see many aged characters still active as heroes. I like a variety of heroes - races, ages, disabilities, etc. Guess that's why I have always liked Alpha.

[Flightpath07]

Favourite - Wild Child.
Least favourite - Michael Pointer (followed closely by Goblyn).

[DelBubs]

Rob, that's what I assumed in the beginning when he was first mentioned as the next member of Beta Flight (in an issue of Marvel Age I believe). I even thought his powers might have something to do with halting motion in others. Then they introduced him in the comic and his powers were entirely different than anything I expected. If that is really what the name refers to, I don't get it.
That's why I assume it was 'Many Kin'. All his counterparts are his Genepool (for want of a better word) from various points in time. Many Kin seems apprpriate.

[Ahab]

That's why I assume it was 'Many Kin'. All his counterparts are his Genepool (for want of a better word) from various points in time. Many Kin seems apprpriate.

So curious - did you like his original power set or the later-on one-at-a-time power set. I think I liked the later version better because it controlled how powerful he was at any given time.

[DelBubs]

I preferred his second mutation, when he could call a specific aspect of himself to suit the situation he found himself in. Let's be honest given some of the mutants out there, his powers weren't so bad and under a decent writer he would probably be a valuable member to any team.

[Canucklehead]

Think about it, the guy has the ability summon three time-phased versions of himself, one being primitively super strong and agile, the other a high-tech futuristic smarts guy and the third is a giant blob of semi-intelligent jelly who can shoot acid out of his pseudopods! How can you get any better than that??!? He's like 3 superheroes all in one and he can kick butt three different ways!!! I'd love to see him come back. One of my favorites!

I look at him as a shape shifter that is limited to 3 shapes. Including one as a pile of goo. He really didn't become important until after Snowbird and "Doctor Shaman" left the team. They kinda make him redundant. You also have Sasquatch and Snowbird that can turn into Wendigo. Do you really need an Apeman?

[DelBubs]

A Strongman, A teleporter and a blob that can dissolve anything it chooses seems like worthwhile powers to me. If we were to deconstruct powers than we could diminish the worth of Marinna out of water, Puck against Giant robots. Manikin just needed the right stage and writer and unfortunately he never got that until Furman took over. By then it was to little to late.

[Guardian98]

Favorite: Guardian ( he is so awesome) love him.

Least Favorite: Michael Pointer (ehh really had no real least favorites but their you go)

Guardian ftw!!

[weaponAlpha]

you're right , michael pointer sucked!....worst ever! an american dressed in a guardian siut?!?!?!

[Phil]

I preferred Pointer to MMLJnr.

[Le Messor]

I think maybe Wild Child, because I (admittedly, maybe unfairly, since I assume a lot of work was done with him later in the series) saw him as basically another Wolverine.

Actually, I always felt he got more Wolverinesque as time and non-Byrnes went on.


Oh come on guys! The Manikin hate is such a downer... Ain't no love for Highbrow, Apeman nor Proto!?!?! Well, I've got enough to go around. Those guys are awesome! And Manikin is a play on "Mannequin", a life-sized human form you might see in a department store window.

I like Mannikin.
I've always figured his name plays on 'mannequin' and 'many kin' at the same time. Didn't he outright state 'many kin' at one point?

- Le Messor
"If you say you love me, then try to change me into another person, you’re not telling me you love me, you’re telling me you love that other person."
- me

[Talisman]

Hi, first post.

Anyway, if you couldn't tell by my avatar and user-title, my favorite is Talisman. She was the most like my favorite x-characters at the time she was introduced (Kitty Pryde & Rachel Summers), and had a really cool power, costume and sense of self. She was fun, intelligent, and the pov character to help dig into these characters back stories.

Least favorite character would have to be Windshear. He just didn't feel right for the team.

[Le Messor]

Welcome to Alpha Waves, Talisman. Hope you survive the experience.

Talisman is cool!!!

- Le Messor
"I’d love to, but it wouldn’t be fair to the other Beautiful People."

[Talisman]

Welcome to Alpha Waves, Talisman. Hope you survive the experience.

Talisman is cool!!!

- Le Messor
"I’d love to, but it wouldn’t be fair to the other Beautiful People."
Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm also Talisman over at CBR, idk if anyone frequents over there, and one of the more vocal Alpha advocates on the x-boards.

[Mokole]

Nice to have you here!

[Alpha Rider]

Hi, first post.

Anyway, if you couldn't tell by my avatar and user-title, my favorite is Talisman. She was the most like my favorite x-characters at the time she was introduced (Kitty Pryde & Rachel Summers), and had a really cool power, costume and sense of self. She was fun, intelligent, and the pov character to help dig into these characters back stories.

Least favorite character would have to be Windshear. He just didn't feel right for the team.

Totally agree with you about Talisman. One of my all time favs. BTW welcome Talisman.

[Talisman]

You guys really know how to make someone feel welcome.

[bigbloo]

Now that you reminded me, I really miss that Talisman. The tough, no-nonsense girl. Later writers had her a little too emo for my taste.

[bigbloo]

Welcome to Alpha Waves, Talisman. Hope you survive the experience.



I missed the traditional Alpha Waves greeting! :)

Welcome, Talisman!

[Talisman]

She was fierce. I hope Van Lente & Pak do something grandiose with her. It's been too long since she's been able to shine. And seriously, this book needs some spunk...besides Marrinas lol

[Flightpath07]

She was fierce. I hope Van Lente & Pak do something grandiose with her. It's been too long since she's been able to shine. And seriously, this book needs some spunk...besides Marrinas lol

Whoops, for a moment there I thought you said that Marrina was too steampunk! I will throw my welcome hat into the ring as well; Welcome, Talisman! I've been lurking here since 2007 - so long, I've forgotten where my home is! lol. I'm sure you'll enjoy this place, most of us are harmless [ watch out for Mik, he's at the bottom of the world and cannot be trusted! ;) ] !

[Le Messor]

[ watch out for Mik, he's at the bottom of the world and cannot be trusted! ;) ] !

Not always... Heh heh heh :evil:

[EccentricSage]

My favorite is Wildchild... any one of him. XD I originally found this character in X-Factor along with a fan letter in one of the books pointing out some past awesomeness Kyle had been capable of. So I started buying any Alpha issues he was in, and then the ones in between to get the whole story. And 'lo, I became an Alpha Flight fan.

I have to say that I found his original form and characterization fascinating, and was really disapointed that we didn't really get to know the original Wildchild very well before he lost control. I think the original characterization of him had the most potential for a powerful narrative and unique character development. It's such a shame most writers went with the typical ether 'he's a homicidaly evil Sabretooth clone' or 'he's a do-good Marry -Sue magically cured of all his character flaws.' That's so boring!

The Original Wildchild could have raised all sorts of questions about the way society treats the mentally ill and physically unatractive among us, questions about what defines morality vs. amorality, nature vs. nurture, is the beast within Wildchild any different from the beast within all humanity... He could have been such a refreshing character in a Comic Book world full of absolutes and altruism. One of the things that really struck me was how eloquent this particularly bestial character was, and how he actually seemed to LIKE himself just fine the way he was, which is a surprise. Not the typical 'poor me, I'm disfigured by my mutations' type. How exciting! I really wanted to see more of the team dynamics, and how he gets along with others in non-combat situations. I did notice that Lil seemed compassionate towards him, particularly her body language when her and Wildchild were being informed that they would be held responsible for Mac's death regardless of the mind control they were victims of. And ain't that a *****? The fact that Lil and Wildchild found themselves treated as virtually disposable pawns more than once was instantly endearing. I wanted these characters to overcome a system and society so unfairly stacked against them. Sadly, writers took easy off-panel paths to get Wildchild back on the team later instead of actually writing a compelling story that was just begging to be written.

I liked that Kyle had some awesome moments and plenty of snark even when they went the Marry-Sue route with him. Some of the writing was pretty terrible (****ing ninjas attacking out of nowhere for no reason! lol!) but there was enough to like about him.

I was still reading X-Factor when I finished collecting Wildchild's old appearances, and had really hoped the book would continue, and that Wildchild's mutations would bring him full circle back to who he was as Byrne created him, and that from there they would deal with him not being able to run away from who he is. Yet another great opportunity for compelling character driven story telling. But alas, by time they reached the book where they re-capped and added to his backstory, I could already tell it just wasn't going to happen. Books were getting axed left and right, and the constant changing and poor quality of the creative team was a clear indicator the editors did not have ongoing plans for the title. I held onto hope that Kyle would find his way into one of the other X-books, at least for a couple issues to tie up loose ends, but nope. Instead Marvel went dark gritty anti-hero crazy and started ****ing up all these B and C list characters I loves, and just killing off under-developed characters in droves so that Tieri and his explosion obsessed fanboys could laugh about it on the official forum.

I'll really miss this tragic character, his humor, his snark, his loyalty, and all the missed narrative opportunities lost to writers who didn't give a **** about any character who isn't ether Wolverine, or their own half-assed creation.


Least Favorite: There were a lot of terrible, pointless creations post-Byrne in Alpha Flight. Silver, Auric, Goblyn, Wyre, Stitch!? Ugh.

I'll second this sentiment for my 'dislike' section as well. There isn't really any one character that stands above them all for me as unbearably terrible, but there are a treasure trove of under-developed, unoriginal, and just plain pointless characters created just to fill a space in a plot or just to give Wildchild someone to maim that we won't actually give two ****s about. Why would anyone pit a mentally unstable living weapon against some shy telekenetic kid who uses a sewing needle as a... what... weapon? That's just negligent! lol

[Flightpath07]

Hey, awesome rant about WildChild! Recognize my avatar at all?

[EccentricSage]

Hey, awesome rant about WildChild! Recognize my avatar at all?

From the very issue of X-Factor I mentioned. :D That issue made me cry. At least they cared enough to give him a full issue for his send off, complete with some decent art. Mut man, what a heartbreaking note to end his storyline on. You'd think with all the friends he had by then in the Marvel world, and with Val feeling suitably guilty and responsible for part of this mess, that SOMEONE would have collected Kyle and gotten him some help. Alpha Flight, some of his X-Factor team mates, some others in the X-books he'd met before, and I think Nemesis was still out there somewhere, too, wasn't she? They also eluded to Kyle having previously met/worked with Mystique at some point in his history, which we know never happened on panel unless they were planing to retcon an old story line and say 'oh that was actually Mystique in disguise'. Who knows what he may have been up to when he went missing. If he was going to be a villain, I'd rather he be working for freedom for mutants, not for some wannabe Hitler and his 'final solution for the mutant problem'. I think it would have been more in keeping with his personality, even once he's insane again. An anti-hero who truly feels justified in his actions, rather than some silly 'everyone is under mind-control/had their memories tampered with or something!' cop-out. I can give Terri some points for using his feelings for Aurora to manipulate him, but the whole idea that Aurora would be placed in an asylum and given a lobotomy in the first place is ridiculous. Northstar never would have allowed that to happen, or any of the Alphans, really.

Well, I at least DID like Wildchild's Haiku. Why Tieri would want to make him mute instead of continuing with the clever mean spirited humor of a bat-**** crazy Wildchild is beyond me. He probably used up all his creativity in that first book. lol

[Mokole]

Eccentric Sage, it sure is darn good to have you back! Hope you have been well.

[EccentricSage]

Aw, thanks you two! *hugs*

It's damn good to be back on a forum where people LIKE rants. XD I feel so at home! <3

[Tawmis]

We all have our favorites. But who would you say is the WORSE - ONE CHARACTER - Alpha Flight character - ever created? And why? (So what if it was, for example a good character - but another writer or artist botched the character completely? Let's hear it!)

So let's hear - if you have to pick ONE Alpha Flight related character - that was the worse creation - villain or hero - who would it be?

[Phil]

Threads merged for continuity.

Plus it'll be interesting to see if people's opinions have changed...

[rplass]

Alpha Flight is totally awesome. Period.

There are some amazing characters, powerful heroes, many of whom are still active in comics 35 years running now and overall it's the best superhero team ever. That's my answer.

[Phil]

I always love Rob's enthusiasm

*group hug*

[Crackity Jones]

Look, I will group hug in a minute.
But first, I am going to answer the question:

PURPLE GIRL

No one is worse than Purple Girl.
And why??

Do I really need to say????
What she did to Northstar is inexcusable. I REALLYREALLYREALLY hated Alpha Flight for about 2 issues. And Heather's reaction and everyone else's reaction?
INSANE.
I cannot stand her. I wish Goblyn would eat her face off.

[Flightpath07]

I am going to give the exact same answer that I gave in 2011, cuz it still holds true:

"Favourite - Wild Child.
Least favourite - Michael Pointer (followed closely by Goblyn). "

Actually, i think maybe I should remove the word "closely". My hatred for Goblyn has diminished over time. That could NEVER happen with Mailman Mike.

Does "Bendis" count as a character? Cuz he would be my number two, with Goblyn number three.

[Crackity Jones]

ohohohoh! I forgot my favorite. I have four favorites. And in no particular order:
Guardian
Northstar and Aurora
Byrne's Heather

[Tawmis]

I figured I'd do what our resident Wildchild (Flight) did - and look at my old answer - and I am surprised to see, both favorite and least favorite, actually have not changed...


Favorite: It's always a mash up between Snowbird and Shaman. I love both of those characters, with Sasquatch coming in a very second close. Followed by Aurora and Northstar. Used to be Guardian/Mac in there - but he's been tinkered with so much, I lost interest. And if we're including all versions, Beta Ray Bill would be there as well - flying next to Sas, if not a hair ahead.

Least Favorite:
Does Earthmover count? If so, he probably takes the top. He comes across as an attempt to oust Shaman and take his place without logic.
If he doesn't count - without a doubt Manikin takes the cake. There are no words to describe my dislike of that character that would do my seething hatred any justice.

[Tawmis]

I am going to give the exact same answer that I gave in 2011, cuz it still holds true:
"Favourite - Wild Child.
Least favourite - Michael Pointer (followed closely by Goblyn). "
Actually, i think maybe I should remove the word "closely". My hatred for Goblyn has diminished over time. That could NEVER happen with Mailman Mike.
Does "Bendis" count as a character? Cuz he would be my number two, with Goblyn number three.

All right - so I'd love to hear it. Why does Wildchild get your favorite slot? Would love to hear what you dig about him, since he's not commonly thrown in there as a favorite by most.

And you didn't like Michael Pointer? What did you have against him (other than he was made post "off screen wipe out" of Alpha Flight) - or was that enough reason to hate him? (I am not faulting you if that's your reason; I actually enjoyed the character through that storyline that they did with him; I felt empathy for him).

[Tawmis]

Look, I will group hug in a minute.
But first, I am going to answer the question:

PURPLE GIRL

No one is worse than Purple Girl.
And why??

Do I really need to say????
What she did to Northstar is inexcusable. I REALLYREALLYREALLY hated Alpha Flight for about 2 issues. And Heather's reaction and everyone else's reaction?
INSANE.
I cannot stand her. I wish Goblyn would eat her face off.


Well, I can't say I am surprised by your answer. :)

[Flightpath07]

All right - so I'd love to hear it. Why does Wildchild get your favorite slot? Would love to hear what you dig about him, since he's not commonly thrown in there as a favorite by most.

I liked, no Loved, Byrne's Wildchild, even though he was a villain(ish). The disfigurement hid a tortured soul, that in the end just found it easier to go along with people's misconceptions and be evil. Not enough people believed in him, or he could have been a great hero (in the early days). Later on in Volume 1, he found some redemption, and i actually thought that his becoming (re-becoming?) a hero having to do with his rediscovering a more fair face, that actually made a lot of sense to me; to me, that was actually keeping with the character, and understanding the inner torment that he lives with. Even in his X-Factor days, i still haven't read ALL of those issues, but even though they de-aged him to a teen (or so it seems), still they dealt a lot with his fragile psyche, and I appreciated that.

And, later on, when he got all bad-arse and pierced and put poison on his claws and took down Wolverine? That was AWESOME! He makes a Great villain, because if written correctly he always has that war within his soul going on, where if somebody would just believe in him he could easily cross sides and go back to being the hero. A truly fascinating character.


And you didn't like Michael Pointer? What did you have against him (other than he was made post "off screen wipe out" of Alpha Flight) - or was that enough reason to hate him? (I am not faulting you if that's your reason; I actually enjoyed the character through that storyline that they did with him; I felt empathy for him).

Pointer. Mailman. The hero killer. The American murderer forced to pay for his crimes by defending Canada, only to turn all evil power-vampire. The Not-Guardian in the Guardian suit. Would Captain America fans be happy if the Red Skull became the new Captain America? No? Well, then all i want for this idiot character is for him to be tortured in (comics) hell for the rest of his lousy un-existence.

And I still think that Alpha Flight should get the chance to take him down, once and for all, and during the fight he dies and they just all turn their backs and walk away without a word of regret. That is what he deserves, plain and simple.

[Le Messor]

Favourite Alpha character?
Nemesis.

Other contenders:
Heather, Snowbird, Sasquatch.

Assume I mean Byrne's versions for all of the above.

Worst character?
Don't really have one - though I agree with Tawmis being annoyed that Earthmover was created to oust Shaman, when there was no reason to do that. (I think he counts.)
Probably a v2 character. Roll a die.

~ Le Messor
"My life has a superb cast but I can't figure out the plot."
~ Ashleigh Brilliant

[Flightpath07]

I rolled a 19. Wait; we were playing D & D, right?

Nemesis; another character one wouldn't just assume would be somebody's favourite. Interesting!

[Tawmis]

I liked, no Loved, Byrne's Wildchild, even though he was a villain(ish). The disfigurement hid a tortured soul, that in the end just found it easier to go along with people's misconceptions and be evil. Not enough people believed in him, or he could have been a great hero (in the early days). Later on in Volume 1, he found some redemption, and i actually thought that his becoming (re-becoming?) a hero having to do with his rediscovering a more fair face, that actually made a lot of sense to me; to me, that was actually keeping with the character, and understanding the inner torment that he lives with. Even in his X-Factor days, i still haven't read ALL of those issues, but even though they de-aged him to a teen (or so it seems), still they dealt a lot with his fragile psyche, and I appreciated that.


So you liked it when they made Wildchild more "pretty"... Interesting. I thought that took away from some of the uniqueness of his character. Because now he looked like everyone else, where as previously he stood out. I would have enjoyed (I think), if he changed (personality to become more of a hero), but still kept the disfigured face he had. This way, it resembles Nightcrawler; where he looks scary, but inside, he's one of the kindest people in comics!



And, later on, when he got all bad-arse and pierced and put poison on his claws and took down Wolverine? That was AWESOME! He makes a Great villain, because if written correctly he always has that war within his soul going on, where if somebody would just believe in him he could easily cross sides and go back to being the hero. A truly fascinating character.


I don't recall the issue where he beat Wolverine... Amazing that anyone is allowed to beat Wolverine. :)



Pointer. Mailman. The hero killer. The American murderer forced to pay for his crimes by defending Canada, only to turn all evil power-vampire. The Not-Guardian in the Guardian suit. Would Captain America fans be happy if the Red Skull became the new Captain America? No? Well, then all i want for this idiot character is for him to be tortured in (comics) hell for the rest of his lousy un-existence.


There is one huge difference between Pointer and Red Skull. Pointer did not intend to kill anyone. Red Skull, has made every effort to harm and kill anyone and everyone. Point was not in control. And the power vampire thing; he wasn't aware what he was doing - and when he learned, he was extremely regretful. (I am trying to avoid too much spoilers, because Crack hasn't read it yet). But I'd say what he does, or was willing to do, once he learned all this - shows the difference between him and Red Skull - and just why he was worthy of wearing the outfit.

[Tawmis]

Favourite Alpha character?
Nemesis.

Worst character?
Don't really have one - though I agree with Tawmis being annoyed that Earthmover was created to oust Shaman, when there was no reason to do that. (I think he counts.)
Probably a v2 character. Roll a die.


Okay, so there's another odd choice - Nemesis. Which one we talking? All of them? And what makes you like her so much - especially since the following ones (past the original) have a huge mystery to them (the first one we at least knew why she existed).

Yeah, the only one who gets close for least favorite for me, other than Earthmover and Manikin, would have to be Murmur...

[Mokole]

I still like Box, Feedback, Puck, Nemesis the best, Pointer the worst (but I never considered him a member of AF anyway).

[Tawmis]

I still like Box, Feedback, Puck, Nemesis the best, Pointer the worst (but I never considered him a member of AF anyway).

Okay, Box I can see (though I don't care for the character myself) - but he appeared a lot, and took center stage frequently. Puck, I totally understand. Nemesis, I can see the first one, because we know her story - but the others, are just ambiguous. But Feedback - this one I have got to hear. He had a very plain costume (reminded me of the Hellfire Club, without their mask), appeared in about a dozen issues, and I don't remember him getting a lot of play - even in those 11 issues. So I'd love to hear why Feedback makes your top choices...

As for Pointer, I'd like to hear why you dislike him (and I agree, he's not really a member of Alpha Flight) - unless your dislike is the same reason(s) as Flight, which I already replied to. :)

[Le Messor]

I rolled a 19. Wait; we were playing D & D, right?

When I said to roll a die, I didn't assume a d6.
Hey, 19! You don't know the queen of soul...

(Mik checks random encounter table...)
You get... Murmur. Cheap rip-off of a previous AF character. Not at all interesting. According to FP's die-roll, my worst AF character is Murmur.


Nemesis; another character one wouldn't just assume would be somebody's favourite. Interesting!

Okay, so there's another odd choice - Nemesis. Which one we talking? All of them? And what makes you like her so much - especially since the following ones (past the original) have a huge mystery to them (the first one we at least knew why she existed).

I still like ... Nemesis (among others) the best...

Yay Mokole! Another vote for her.

As I said, assume I mean Byrne's incarnation. I only count that one issue she appeared in - I know Mantlo attempted an origin for her, but it never satisfied me, and never quite fit with the character Byrne had created.

So, issue 7: we have this hugely mysterious character, in red and black, with overtones of vampirism and Joan of Arc, and all kinds of things you can read into her. You have this total mystery about who she is, what she is, and how she's connected to Earnest. (Again, something about Mantlo's version isn't quite right for me - I'd LOVE to know what Byrne's origin for her was.)

Her powers aren't spelled out, but seem to fit with all the above.

And then there's that sword of hers. I love me a good sword, and she has one of the best; "scarcely an atom's width thick, able to cut through near anything by cleaving between the molecules." I've got a shameless Gary-Stu character who shows up in everything I write, (hopefully more as an Easter egg for all my fan than as an annoying Gary-Stu), and his sword is a total rip of hers (but not quite as sharp. I'm always afraid she'll accidentally split an atom with that thing!)


So you liked it when they made Wildchild more "pretty"... Interesting. I thought that took away from some of the uniqueness of his character.

I always loved Byrne's characterisation - he looked weird, but not comic-book weird; real-world weird.

He had the feral powers of a Wolverine clone, but he spoke in quite an erudite manner befitting a scholar. I don't think later characterisations followed that up.

I don't mind the idea of making him look normal through in-story explanations (rather than lazy artists), but I don't like the implication of 'good-looking = good, ugly = evil'.


There is one huge difference between Pointer and Red Skull. Pointer did not intend to kill anyone.

Very true. I'm a Christian; we're supposed to believe in forgiveness. (We're just not always very good at it.)

OTOH, forgiving him an accident is one thing; him being put in charge of the team that was meant to be the next incarnation of Alpha Flight, and wearing what he wore at the time (along with being a non-Canadian!) left a poor taste in my mouth. It felt like a slap in the face, meaning that poor taste was probably my own blood (trying to un-mix my metaphor here).


Yeah, the only one who gets close for least favorite for me, other than Earthmover and Manikin, would have to be Murmur...

I don't mind the first two (and, despite the above, don't care that much about Murmur - she doesn't stand out to me as being any worse than any other v2 character, which is why a die-roll settled it. Flex is the only one I like.) Earthmover is a non-entity, and I like Manikin's power set.


I still like Box, Feedback, Puck, Nemesis the best, Pointer the worst (but I never considered him a member of AF anyway).

Feedback! Yay some post-Byrne love!
The only post-Byrne character who'd make my list of favourites is DreamQueen. Big shock there.
~ Le Messor
"We tolerate anyone - even the intolerable."
~ Alien 3

[Tawmis]

As I said, assume I mean Byrne's incarnation. I only count that one issue she appeared in - I know Mantlo attempted an origin for her, but it never satisfied me, and never quite fit with the character Byrne had created.

So, issue 7: we have this hugely mysterious character, in red and black, with overtones of vampirism and Joan of Arc, and all kinds of things you can read into her. You have this total mystery about who she is, what she is, and how she's connected to Earnest. (Again, something about Mantlo's version isn't quite right for me - I'd LOVE to know what Byrne's origin for her was.)

Her powers aren't spelled out, but seem to fit with all the above.

And then there's that sword of hers. I love me a good sword, and she has one of the best; "scarcely an atom's width thick, able to cut through near anything by cleaving between the molecules." I've got a shameless Gary-Stu character who shows up in everything I write, (hopefully more as an Easter egg for all my fan than as an annoying Gary-Stu), and his sword is a total rip of hers (but not quite as sharp. I'm always afraid she'll accidentally split an atom with that thing!)


Wasn't she Earnest's daughter? Or something along those lines? Or am I (once again, misremembering, or is that what Mantalo wrote?)



I always loved Byrne's characterisation - he looked weird, but not comic-book weird; real-world weird.
I don't mind the idea of making him look normal through in-story explanations (rather than lazy artists), but I don't like the implication of 'good-looking = good, ugly = evil'.


I am a huge fan of never judge a book by it's cover. One of the reasons I love Nightcrawler. He looks like a demon, but then he's a devout God fearing man, who has a heart full of love and compassion!



OTOH, forgiving him an accident is one thing; him being put in charge of the team that was meant to be the next incarnation of Alpha Flight, and wearing what he wore at the time (along with being a non-Canadian!) left a poor taste in my mouth. It felt like a slap in the face, meaning that poor taste was probably my own blood (trying to un-mix my metaphor here).


See, I wouldn't mind, for example if someone (who wasn't "American") took up the mantle of Captain America. (But perhaps since America is this whole "mixing pot of people" or whatever, that's not the same as someone who represents Canada?) For me, Pointer took on the Guardian costume to make right what he did wrong (even if it was an accident). So I didn't see it as a slap in the face, to have a non Canadian wearing the costume. But it's cool to see different views.



Feedback! Yay some post-Byrne love!
The only post-Byrne character who'd make my list of favourites is DreamQueen. Big shock there.


Well for Post Byrne, I actually dug Witchfire... but that's because she has a tie to Belasco, and Uncanny X-Men #160 was one of my favorites back in the day... so, there is that. I enjoyed what they did with her during that one X-Men limited series thing too (not Inferno, but something similarly named)... although I know a lot of AF fans disliked it.

[Alphan East]

Favourite has always been Mac. My first introduction to Alpha Flight was seeing him in X-Men #120. When I saw that Canada Flag costume... I was hooked forever. A close second would be Snowbird.
Least favourite would have to be Manbot from volume 2. Ridiculous... just ridiculous. I've always believed that Steven Seagle needed another new character for the series and 5 minutes before deadline just decided "Make him look like ED 209 from Robocop and give him a face".

Exhibit A: 4312 Exhibit B: 4313

[Tawmis]

Favourite has always been Mac. My first introduction to Alpha Flight was seeing him in X-Men #120. When I saw that Canada Flag costume... I was hooked forever. A close second would be Snowbird.
Least favourite would have to be Manbot from volume 2. Ridiculous... just ridiculous. I've always believed that Steven Seagle needed another new character for the series and 5 minutes before deadline just decided "Make him look like ED 209 from Robocop and give him a face".

Exhibit A: 4312 Exhibit B: 4313

Oh. Good call. Manbot was horrible as well. I think he may have gotten less work/action/development than Murmur. At least with Murmur, you knew she was a (Frenchy) b!tchy character... I can't recall anything about Manbot, in terms of anything he said or personality... or anything...

[Flightpath07]

Oh. Good call. Manbot was horrible as well. I think he may have gotten less work/action/development than Murmur. At least with Murmur, you knew she was a (Frenchy) b!tchy character... I can't recall anything about Manbot, in terms of anything he said or personality... or anything...

Here's a hint for writers of comic books. If you don't plan on revealing a character's back story or giving them a personality or developing them as an actual character...don't put them in your book! (You'd think common sense would prevail, here, but apparently not with too many writers!)

[Tawmis]

Here's a hint for writers of comic books. If you don't plan on revealing a character's back story or giving them a personality or developing them as an actual character...don't put them in your book! (You'd think common sense would prevail, here, but apparently not with too many writers!)

I couldn't agree more...

[Flightpath07]

I couldn't agree more...

I bet you could!

[Le Messor]

Least favourite would have to be Manbot from volume 2. Ridiculous... just ridiculous. I've always believed that Steven Seagle needed another new character for the series and 5 minutes before deadline just decided "Make him look like ED 209 from Robocop and give him a face".
Exhibit A:4312 Exhibit B: 4313Exhibit C: 4329 (added by Mik)

Devil's due department:
I saw those images before I read the text, and was thinking 'is that some anime thing?', because I didn't recognise ED 209.

SO, I'm going to guess it's the one from the remake (which I've not seen; interest level holding steady a '0', sir), and not the original - which I know very well. The ED 209 in the original looks a lot less like Manbot than that one does - though I still see the resemblance.

(My computer is scanning for lifeforms right now, and that slows it down too much for me to look for images to post, sorry.)
(ED-it: Now it isn't, here's a pic of classic ED 209.)

But that all means, if I'm right, THAT ED 209 didn't exist when Seagle made up Manbot.


I can't recall anything about Manbot, in terms of anything he said or personality... or anything...

So you DO remember him! That's why I don't hate him; there's nothing there to hate. :/ (There should be, though.)


Here's a hint for writers of comic books. If you don't plan on revealing a character's back story or giving them a personality or developing them as an actual character...don't put them in your book! (You'd think common sense would prevail, here, but apparently not with too many writers!)

1: not just comic books! Movies, prose books, any work of fiction, really.
b) Sadly, sense does not prevail.

~ Le Messor
"Common sense isn't."

[dbutler69]

Favorite: Puck. I love the depth of his character. Definitely a case of "you can't judge a book by his cover". I'm currently re-reading Alpha Flight vol. 1 for the first time in decades, and I love finding out more about Puck and his fascinating past. The guy talks like a sailor, has been in prison, but reads Shakespeare, can tell you about the burial rituals of African tribes, has been all over the world, speak 17 languages, and is a very empathetic person, especially for a "tough guy". Shaman and Northstar are great, too.

Least Favorite: I'll just quote Legerd "Any of the faux Alphans from the second or third series. I honestly can't pick one."
Besides, my interest in comics mostly just goes up to the early 90's (or even late 80's). Most of the newer comics I've read haven't thrilled me that much.

[Tawmis]

Favorite: Puck. I love the depth of his character. Definitely a case of "you can't judge a book by his cover". I'm currently re-reading Alpha Flight vol. 1 for the first time in decades, and I love finding out more about Puck and his fascinating past. The guy talks like a sailor, has been in prison, but reads Shakespeare, can tell you about the burial rituals of African tribes, has been all over the world, speak 17 languages, and is a very empathetic person, especially for a "tough guy". Shaman and Northstar are great, too.

That is a good point that Puck is a pretty diverse character.
(And welcome to the forums!)

[dbutler69]

That is a good point that Puck is a pretty diverse character.
(And welcome to the forums!)

Thanks. :)

[Le Messor]

Yes, welcome, DButler.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.
'cept the decades part. I've read the Byrne stuff far more recently than that.

~ Le Messor
"My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular."
~ Adlai Stevenson

[dbutler69]

Yes, welcome, DButler.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.
'cept the decades part. I've read the Byrne stuff far more recently than that.



What good stuff has there been since then? As far as Byrne goes, I did enjoy X-Men: The Hidden Years, but that's the only reasonably recent Byrne stuff I've read. As far as other good comics, I enjoyed X-Men: First Class, Guardian of the Galaxy, and some of the Legion of Super-Heroes stuff, but most of it just fails to wow me. Just call me a grumpy old man.

[Phil]

I think LM meant that he's re-read the Byrne AF a lot more recently than decades ago.

[dbutler69]

I think LM meant that he's re-read the Byrne AF a lot more recently than decades ago.

Oh, duh. Thanks for the clarification.
:oops:

Actually, I was totally out of comics for about 15 years, and have only gotten back into them in the past few years, hence my absence from AF for so long. I'm making my way through my thousands of old back issues, and Alpha Flight has been among my favorite so far.