The New DCU 52

[DaVeO]

Anyone here getting some of these new titles? I make no secret of the fact I'm a big DC fan (and comics in general) and though I'll miss a few characters the comics coming out of this look fantastic.

What I've picked up so far:

Animal Man #1: Great characterization, starts out very everyday superhero comic then flips the concept on its head and dives into horror.

Swamp Thing #1: More good characterization getting to know the man that WAS Swamp Thing or at least shared the memories of it. Also good horror aspects but firmly set in the world of superheroes as well. This was my fave of the three.

Stormwatch #1: Taking heroes from a different angle Stormwatch existed before super heroes were even wearing tights. They deal with threats beyond costume kooks. A lot of subplots thrown at you so this former Capt. Britain & MI:13 writer (Cornell) has a lot of material planned.

[DelBubs]

Never a great fan or collector of DC UNiverse stuff, but a big fan of the former Wildstorm Universe. Lost heart with Stormwatch after Ellis left, never seemed to reach it's former glory. Same with Authority members, never seemed the same after Millar left. On a different tack, there is a Penguin limited starting in October (think that's right) which I'm hoping will be convincing enough to get me looking at other DCU books.

[Jason Eberly]

I'm only getting the stuff I was getting before the relaunch, with the exception of Suicide Squad. It is replacing one of my favorite books, Secret Six, and I have every Suicide Squad issue since the 80's series. The downside is I have heard nothing but horrid reviews of Suicide Squad.

Anyway, I am getting Action Comics, Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Justice League, and Suicide Squad, and Superman. I think that's it.

The downside is is that DC is actually losing money on me by canceling Booster Gold and Justice Society of America (though the rumor is they will be relaunching in perhaps a few months), and all these titles that may have once been locks on my pull list are now on probation. My thoughts on what I've gotten so far.

Justice League #1: Very average. Not what I would have gone with to start the big relaunch with. Very sparse plot, generic villain, and you only really get to see two members of the 'future' JL together. The art is great, but..eh. Like I said, not a horrible or even a bad issue...just 'eh'.

Action Comics #1: Morrison is very hit and miss for me. I loved All-Star Superman (set outside continuity) but have pretty much detested any of his in-continuity stuff at DC. I like the concept of what he is trying to do in Action, but his characterization of Superman just left me cold. While it's fine to show a young Supes as inexperienced and learning as he goes along, the brash, bullying, jerk that I saw in #1 just left me not liking the character at all. I am hoping this is on purpose, but considering Morrison's characters always seem to be this way...

Green Arrow #1: This was probably my biggest disappointment. I agree that GA needs to be somewhat revised from the depressed loser jerk he's been the past half decade or so. But this went too far. I always liked that GA seemed to be somewhat older and somewhat curmudgeon-y (but still likeable), but they took those traits away from him, too...making him this young "man on a mission". Also, I am not a fan of Smallville (don't hate it, just was never able to get into it), and this GA looks very similar to the Green Arrow that appeared on that show. I don't like the compound bow, I don't like the Smallville costume, and I don't like that he looks more like Conner Hawke than Ollie Queen anymore. This just isn't the Green Arrow I want to read about. I love the Robin Hood-esque nature of the classic Green Arrow.

Anyway, the story was okay. Enough to keep me coming back for a little while to see if things improve. I just find it hard to get past the character to enjoy the story.

I really want to like the new DC, so don't take me for a hater. But so far...to quote myself, 'eh'. I hope my other titles are enjoyable and that the ones I've already read get better.

[Flightpath07]

On my pull lists are Red Hood and the Outlaws, and Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E.

Have I actually read any of the issues yet? No. Issue 1 of both series should be arriving in my mailbox late next week.

[Phil]

If any company thinks I can afford to buy 52 $2.99 or $3.99 comics in a single month they're mistaken.

I'm down for the first issues of Stormwatch & Batwing and that's probably about it.

[Flightpath07]

I doubt DC is thinking that ANY fans are going to buy every title every month; that'd be silly. They just, as a company, decided ot change up, well, EVERYTHING! Good on 'em for the effort, it is a big risk. Mind you, so is NOT changing (hint hint, Marvel).

[Phil]

I didn't mean every month, but there's a clear collectibility vibe of getting every #1 this month. And there are lots of people doing exactly that.
Why not stagger the releases?
Do we really need 4 Batman-books launching in one month?

I'd be more inclined to try out more if I had the time-buffer.

[Flightpath07]

Ah, I get ya now, Phil.

[Le Messor]

Do we really need 4 Batman-books launching in one month?

Do we really need 4 Batman books?

After listening to Linkara's review today, I'm starting to be interested in JLI.

- Le Messor
"If I hold you any closer I'll be in back of you!"
~ Groucho

[Phil]

Well, yeah, I agree with that.
4 Batman books plus being in the JL(A), plus Batwing, Batgirl, Batwoman....

[Jason Eberly]

Out of the 52 new DC lineup, 11 are Batman or Batman family titles.

That's over a fifth of their lineup.

And that doesn't even count JL and JLI.

[Alpha Rider]

You have to remember that DC only really has two books: Superman and Batman, everything else is either 2nd or 3rd class charaters. Don't get me wrong, things like the Flash, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman sell, but not to the extent of Sups and Bats.

[Flightpath07]

You have to remember that DC only really has two books: Superman and Batman, everything else is either 2nd or 3rd class charaters. Don't get me wrong, things like the Flash, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman sell, but not to the extent of Sups and Bats.

Sort of like Spiderman and Wolverine?

[Le Messor]

Coming soon:
Superspiderbatverine's fifth monthly series!
In this issue, he slaughters dozens of innocents! Our hero, ladies and gentlemen.

- Le Messor
"Success is setting reasonable goals and acheiving them. Success is an action - not a state, an ability, or a commodity."
~ Mark T. Shirey

[Flightpath07]

Speaking of heroes who slaughter people...

anybody asked Fred if he has any plans to have Deadpool make an appearance at any point? What with them hiring mercenaries to help them out...it WOULD make some sense! (and be a LOT of fun!)

[Alpha Rider]

Sort of like Spiderman and Wolverine?

Yeah but Marvel's second rate guys were always better than DCs. But Marvel always had the FF, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Spidy. These books outsold DCs books monthly.

[Flightpath07]

But, to be fair, i don't know that Thor has been all that hot of a seller for a while now (altho i am not sure of the exact numbers, i do know it got cancelled, rebooted, and then i beleive cancelled again, then rebooted again, all in the last decade or less).

Never read Captain America, personally. Don't even know anybody that reads Iron Man. Never been a Hulk fan, altho there are plenty who are, I am sure.

You're not including Spiderman in Marvel's "second rate guys", are you? lol.

And Fantastic Four hardly counts, now that it is just another Spiderman book.

My point was, the vehicle that makes Marvel go, is, for the most part, Wolverine and Spiderman.

It may not have always been that way, but it is now.

[Alpha Rider]

But, to be fair, i don't know that Thor has been all that hot of a seller for a while now (altho i am not sure of the exact numbers, i do know it got cancelled, rebooted, and then i beleive cancelled again, then rebooted again, all in the last decade or less).

Never read Captain America, personally. Don't even know anybody that reads Iron Man. Never been a Hulk fan, altho there are plenty who are, I am sure.

You're not including Spiderman in Marvel's "second rate guys", are you? lol.

And Fantastic Four hardly counts, now that it is just another Spiderman book.

My point was, the vehicle that makes Marvel go, is, for the most part, Wolverine and Spiderman.

It may not have always been that way, but it is now.

Marvel has more staple guys than DC. The first wave of 60's books Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, FF, the Avengers. These books are what made Marvel. All the other books that fallowed were always the 2nd rate guys. These books had various degree of popularity throughout there history. I remember in the late 70's that Spiderman and Hulk were the big two for Marvel.

The Avengers are the JLA but at least Marvel dosen't have their flagship guy (Spiderman) leading the team. JLA has Superman calling all the shots, or Batman.
DC milks Batman like a cow. How many Elseworld books have Batman in it? How many Bat titles a month do they have? Spidy only had 1 title till '76 when Spetacular Spiderman, the in '88 with Web of Spiderman, and '90 with Spiderman. I don't know about now.

Wolverine was to be a throuw away charater who fought the Hulk, and got picked up by the X-Men and was going to be shoved aside for Night Crawler to take the center stage, and Wolverine would have been off the team. However Clairmount and Byrne reinvented the guy and the rest is history. But Wolverine's popularity didn't come until the late 80's earliy 90's and got over X-posed.

DC always seem to count on Sups, Bats and Wonder Woman, not so much. evryone else at DC is 2nd rate guys. The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and evrything else never seem to cut it (for me at least).

[Jason Eberly]

The Avengers are the JLA but at least Marvel dosen't have their flagship guy (Spiderman) leading the team. JLA has Superman calling all the shots, or Batman.

Martian Manhunter has had long stints as JL leader as well, and, to me, quite often been the centerpiece of the team through many of its incarnations.


DC milks Batman like a cow. How many Elseworld books have Batman in it? How many Bat titles a month do they have? Spidy only had 1 title till '76 when Spetacular Spiderman, the in '88 with Web of Spiderman, and '90 with Spiderman. I don't know about now.

Don't forget Marvel Team-Up, which started in the early 70's and ended to make way for Web of Spider-Man, which actually started in either late '84 or early '85, and was replaced in I think it was '94 or 95 with Sensational Spider-Man, which ended in '98 with the Spider-Man relaunch. Wow...what a run-on sentence.


Wolverine was to be a throuw away charater who fought the Hulk, and got picked up by the X-Men and was going to be shoved aside for Night Crawler to take the center stage, and Wolverine would have been off the team. However Clairmount and Byrne reinvented the guy and the rest is history. But Wolverine's popularity didn't come until the late 80's earliy 90's and got over X-posed.

I'd have to say Wolverine's popularity soared more in the early 80's, especially with the Wolverine limited series by Frank Miller in '82.


DC always seem to count on Sups, Bats and Wonder Woman, not so much. evryone else at DC is 2nd rate guys. The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and evrything else never seem to cut it (for me at least).

Well, DC has made a huge push to make the Green Lantern family very prominent the last few years, and they now have four books in the new DCU (GL, GL Corps, GL: The New Guardians, and Red Lanterns). That's the same number as the Superman family right now.

[DaVeO]

You have to remember that DC only really has two books: Superman and Batman, everything else is either 2nd or 3rd class charaters. Don't get me wrong, things like the Flash, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman sell, but not to the extent of Sups and Bats.

Actually it's more like Batman, Superman, Green Lantern are the top tire books and have been for sometime. GL has been in top 20 overall books I think since Geoff Johns brought back Hal Jordan.

I WAS going to just go with all my regulars too but then I thought, what the hell. If DC is willing to switch it up then why not me? So I'm not going with ANY of my regular titles except Batwoman.

Pull List
Batwoman
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Stormwatch
Grifter
Voodoo
Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
JSA (when it returns)
I,Vampire (Yeah I know, but I just saw the preview art and read an interview have to try it once at least)
Justice League Dark
And ALL digital! I have too many boxes and not enough storage space.

[Flightpath07]

But DC's villains are much more prominent, well-known/loved, than Marvel's. How can Marvel villains ever rival the popularity of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Bizarro Superman, Poison Ivy, and Lex Luthor?

I would also have to agree with the comments about the Martian Manhumter having often played prominent roles.

Really, DC's Big Three has become DC's Big Four, with the push for Green Lantern in the last decade or two. And in reality, of those four, Wonder Woman is the one who cannot seem to make it in her own title very well - she needs the other three much more than they need her.

[DIGGER]

But DC's villains are much more prominent, well-known/loved, than Marvel's. How can Marvel villains ever rival the popularity of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Bizarro Superman, Poison Ivy, and Lex Luthor?

I would also have to agree with the comments about the Martian Manhumter having often played prominent roles.

Really, DC's Big Three has become DC's Big Four, with the push for Green Lantern in the last decade or two. And in reality, of those four, Wonder Woman is the one who cannot seem to make it in her own title very well - she needs the other three much more than they need her.

Those villians have had the good fortune (except for Bizzaro and Poison Ivy) of having been on t.v. or in a movie at some point in time before Marvels villains so it seems to me they have an advantage.

DIGGER

[DaVeO]

Marvel has more staple guys than DC. The first wave of 60's books Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, FF, the Avengers. These books are what made Marvel. All the other books that fallowed were always the 2nd rate guys. These books had various degree of popularity throughout there history. I remember in the late 70's that Spiderman and Hulk were the big two for Marvel.

What is your point here? Do you just mean they have more longer running books?


The Avengers are the JLA but at least Marvel dosen't have their flagship guy (Spiderman) leading the team. JLA has Superman calling all the shots, or Batman.
This was the point of the JLA though, to have the Big Guns fighting the big threats. JLA came out in 1960 starting in Brave and the Bold. In 1963 The Avengers debut with their Big Guns. I don't see what point you were making with your statement. Spider-Man wasn't in the Avengers, no, but then he was never that kind of character, until now apparently. Who would let a teenager lead Earth's Mightiest Heroes? By the way, in the early days of the League, Superman and Batman were hardly in it. As to why they later took on the mantle of chairperson. It just made sense as to their skills. Batman was the brains and Superman was inspirational. The same reason Iron Man and Captain America were mainly the de facto leader of Avengers.

DC milks Batman like a cow. How many Elseworld books have Batman in it? How many Bat titles a month do they have? Spidy only had 1 title till '76 when Spetacular Spiderman, the in '88 with Web of Spiderman, and '90 with Spiderman. I don't know about now.

Kind of an unfair vantage point. You seem to be comparing Batman titles out now with Spider-Man titles from the 70's to the 90's. Remember that Amazing Spider-Man is three times a month. Spider-Man is also on two Avengers teams, the FF, has a big event going on with Spider Island... I think Marvel milks Spider-Man just fine as well. Don't even get me started on X-Men.


Yeah but Marvel's second rate guys were always better than DCs. But Marvel always had the FF, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Spidy. These books outsold DCs books monthly.

That's a matter of personal opinion.

[Flightpath07]

I think Marvel milks Spider-Man just fine as well. Don't even get me started on X-Men.

We think alike on these points, for sure!

[Le Messor]

All the other books that fallowed were always the 2nd rate guys.

And they have indeed been lying fallow for quite some time... :D
(Sorry... don't normally like to point out spelling mistakes, but that one gave a hilarious (if you're me) double-meaning.)


I'd have to say Wolverine's popularity soared more in the early 80's, especially with the Wolverine limited series by Frank Miller in '82.

Correction: Drawn by Miller, but written by Claremont.

- Le Messor
"I'd love to, but there's a disturbance in the Force."

[Legerd]

Animal Man #1: Great characterization, starts out very everyday superhero comic then flips the concept on its head and dives into horror.

Agreed, which is why I picked it up too. Also grabbed JLI to get a look at DC's international heroes. Very disappointed they didn't bother to throw a Canadian character in here.

[Flightpath07]

Very disappointed they didn't bother to throw a Canadian character in here

Well, I'm glad you used the word disappointed, and not surprised.

[Alpha Rider]

Martian Manhunter has had long stints as JL leader as well, and, to me, quite often been the centerpiece of the team through many of its incarnations.

Maybe so, but anytime I looked at JLA, it was Sups, and Bats calling the shots. So I am going by what I have seen.


Don't forget Marvel Team-Up, which started in the early 70's and ended to make way for Web of Spider-Man, which actually started in either late '84 or early '85, and was replaced in I think it was '94 or 95 with Sensational Spider-Man, which ended in '98 with the Spider-Man relaunch. Wow...what a run-on sentence.

I forgot about that one.

I'd have to say Wolverine's popularity soared more in the early 80's, especially with the Wolverine limited series by Frank Miller in '82.

True, but I feel it was more towards the later 80's when guys like the Punisher were getting popular; the darker charaters.


Well, DC has made a huge push to make the Green Lantern family very prominent the last few years, and they now have four books in the new DCU (GL, GL Corps, GL: The New Guardians, and Red Lanterns). That's the same number as the Superman family right now.

Marvel did the same with Ghost Rider back in the 90's with Ghost Rider, Spirits of Vengeance, MCP, and the Midnight Sons tieins (Mrobius, Darhold, & Night Stalkers)
Not to forget the Original Ghost Rider Riders Again (reprint of the last 14 books) + The Original Ghost Rider (reprints from Marvel Spot Light to GR 12 when it got canned) This effect is called the "Umbrella effect" where you get a popular charater and have multipule titles and have cross overs every summer with the ocasional guess apperance.

[Alpha Rider]

And they have indeed been lying fallow for quite some time... :D
(Sorry... don't normally like to point out spelling mistakes, but that one gave a hilarious (if you're me) double-meaning.)

- Le Messor
"I'd love to, but there's a disturbance in the Force."

If anyone would have caught the double meaning it would be you. And yes it is a double meaning.

[DaVeO]

Well, I'm glad you used the word disappointed, and not surprised.

I don't know where the rumour started but I just read in a Newsarama review (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/best-shots-comic-reviews-110912.html) about JLI, that Booster himself may in fact be Canadian.

Here is the quote by reviewer Edward Kaye:
"We now have a UN-sanctioned team, with each team member hailing from a different county. The team is headed up by Booster Gold (who is rumored to be Canadian now), and is based out of the Hall of Justice."

[Flightpath07]

Oops, forgot about the Booster Gold thing; it has been mentioned elsewhere here before.

As i stated before, colour me unimpressed. Booster Gold is barely a step up from Blue Devil.

[cmdrkoenig67]

Marvel did the same with Ghost Rider back in the 90's with Ghost Rider, Spirits of Vengeance, MCP, and the Midnight Sons tie-ins (Morbius, Darkhold, & Night Stalkers)Not to forget the Original Ghost Rider Riders Again (reprint of the last 14 books) + The Original Ghost Rider (reprints from Marvel Spot Light to GR 12 when it got canned) This effect is called the "Umbrella effect" where you get a popular character and have multiple titles and have cross overs every summer with the occasional guess appearance.

I loved the Midnight Sons line....But then I 've always been a fan of Marvel's horror/monster hero stuff, like Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider and Living Mummy)

Dana

[Flightpath07]

Living Mummy...as opposed to Dead Mummy? Seems like both titles would work, come to think of it...

[Phil]

So, if you had to publish 52 Marvel #1's what would they be?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Well...A dead mummy really can't do a lot, besides lay there. A living or undead mummy are a bit more lively...LOL!

Dana

[Jason Eberly]

Correction: Drawn by Miller, but written by Claremont.

- Le Messor


Curses! Fallowed again!

[Flightpath07]

So, if you had to publish 52 Marvel #1's what would they be?

1. Bendis' Favourite Poses of Dead Canadian Heroes # 1

2. Worst Alpha Flight Artists Ever # 1

3. The Very Last Marvel Big Event (of this year) # 1

4. Canadian Avengers (Now Featuring No Canadians!)# 1

5. X-Men North # 1 (wherein all of Canada's mutants head to the USA, never to return)

6. Marvel Universe Kills Guardian # 1

7. Power Pack # 1 (featuring Julie Power, Alex Power, Wolverine, and Spiderman!)

etc.

[Flightpath07]

Curses! Fallowed again!

Nice!

[Phil]

etc.

Ooooooooooooookaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy..........

Idea moved to http://www.alphaflight.net/showthread.php?5808-The-Nu-Marvel-52-%28Fantasy-Publishing%29&p=82752 so as not to derail this thread.

[Flightpath07]

Sorry Phil, my sense of humour went on overload.

:-\" :oops:

[Alpha Rider]

I loved the Midnight Sons line....But then I 've always been a fan of Marvel's horror/monster hero stuff, like Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider and Living Mummy)

Dana

I'm a hugh Ghost Rider fan. My GR books out number my AF books.

[Alpha Rider]

[QUOTE=Flightpath07;82711]But DC's villains are much more prominent, well-known/loved, than Marvel's. How can Marvel villains ever rival the popularity of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Bizarro Superman, Poison Ivy, and Lex Luthor?
QUOTE]

Man who laugh (Joker), Man who flip coin (Two Face), Man who tell riddles (Riddler), and Woman with plants (Poison Ivy). Just gose to show you what a really good writter could do. But the best and biggest Joker crime of all time was when he stold a kid's (Dick Graysons) homework and made him cry. True story. I could not make this stuff up even if I tried.

[Legerd]

I don't know where the rumour started but I just read in a Newsarama review (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/best-shots-comic-reviews-110912.html) about JLI, that Booster himself may in fact be Canadian.

Here is the quote by reviewer Edward Kaye:
"We now have a UN-sanctioned team, with each team member hailing from a different county. The team is headed up by Booster Gold (who is rumored to be Canadian now), and is based out of the Hall of Justice."

Wow, really? Now I think it's okay to say I'm surprised. :eek: