The Future of Department H

[Flightpath07]

Something I’d like to see happen in the future of Alpha Flight;

Mac builds his own Department H.

With all the brain power of he and Walter, why can’t one of them build or design something and sell the patent for it, make mega-millions of dollars, and use that money to build their own research and design unit? Somewhere away from government eyes. Mac must have a FEW people in the old Department H he knows, he trusts, that he could hire to work for him.

I’d enjoy seeing him puttering in his own lab on his days off, showing that he is every bit as smart as Reed Richards. Building stuff that the team could use (why can’t Alpha Flight have a flying car, like the FF did?). Finding ways to make things to better the lives of ordinary Canadians, and to continue to make money that would be pumped back into Department H, to keep it going.

They could do this as the heroes of Alpha Flight, or as the guerilla unit that they currently are; with the second option, they'd have to hide who owned the company and have it be more underground and hidden, but that is okay too.

What do you think? Would this idea work, and would you like to see it?

[Le Messor]

(why can’t Alpha Flight have a flying car, like the FF did?)
What do you think? Would this idea work, and would you like to see it?

The first: they've had a couple of their own planes, at least, like the FF, the Avengers, the X-Men.
The second... it'd work just fine.
Honestly, though, I'd neither like to see it nor want to not see it... Does that make sense?

- Le Messor
"Tat's me favorite shirt... tat's me only shirt."
~ Kendra

[Jason Eberly]

What do you think? Would this idea work, and would you like to see it?

I do like the idea of them starting their own non-government related private version of 'H', even though I prefer a slimmer, less expansive version of Alpha Flight (hey...like we have right now!).

However, I do not want to see Mac (or Walt, for that matter) elevated to the level of a Reed Richards-type intelligence. It makes it too easy for a deus ex machina in plots. If they need something related to electromagnetism, though, then Mac is your man. If they need some gizmo or expertise to deal with radiation, here's Uncle Walt.

Though I love Reed and the FF (platonically, of course), and the ability to invent a gizmo to save the day works for them, for the most part I enjoy seeing heroes be creative in the use of their powers and their wits to win the day, not merely build a doohickey to drain the energy of The Malevolent Moose-Man. Heck, I even enjoy a fight ending with a good sock to the jaw (in comic book fantasy land, at least).

[Le Messor]

for the most part I enjoy seeing heroes be creative in the use of their powers and their wits to win the day, not merely build a doohickey to drain the energy of The Malevolent Moose-Man.

Yep! One of the things I loved about Byrne's AF.
Walt once saved the day with a sneeze!

- Le Messor
How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Fish.

[Flightpath07]

How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Fish.

"Do you have any 2's?"

"No. Go fish."

"I can't, I'm changing this lightbulb."

"There. Are. Four. Lights."

"No; There. Are. No. 2's."

[Le Messor]

We also have no bananas.

Not at these prices.

[Flightpath07]

Though I love Reed and the FF (platonically, of course), and the ability to invent a gizmo to save the day works for them, for the most part I enjoy seeing heroes be creative in the use of their powers and their wits to win the day, not merely build a doohickey to drain the energy of The Malevolent Moose-Man.

This was honestly not even in my thoughts when I came up with this idea. I just think that Mac, and Walter to a lesser extent, are scientists at heart. They were scientists before they were heroes, and became heroes only because of the circumstances surrounding their scienitific discoveries. I'd like to see them doing what they love to do, puttering around in the lab, helping humanity that way rather than always in pajamas or fur.

Doesn't mean they need to invent a new doohickie to save the day every comic issue. But how cool would it be to see one of them invent a solar-powered toaster, or popcorn that doesn't get stuck in your teeth? I dunno...I guess I just want that feeling that they have lives away from Alpha, lives that still make a difference. Both of them have lost so much since becoming heroes, wouldn't it be nice to get to regularly see them doing what they love to do?

[Le Messor]

...only because of the circumstances surrounding their scienitific discoveries.

Well, that's a lot more true of Mac than of Walt... but it applies to both.


I just want that feeling that they have lives away from Alpha, lives that still make a difference. Both of them have lost so much since becoming heroes, wouldn't it be nice to get to regularly see them doing what they love to do?

I'd love that, too. Which is why I asked, and hoped they 'heard', the writers not to go the whole 'guerilla / underground' route. It makes all of that (having lives away from the team, making a difference, seeing them do what they love to do) next to unpossible.
That, and Sasquatch is more orang-utan than gorilla.

- Le Messor
"Ice Water? Get some onions - that'll make your eyes water!"
~ Groucho Marx in Cocoanuts

[Jason Eberly]

"Do you have any 2's?"

"No. Go fish."

"I can't, I'm changing this lightbulb."

"There. Are. Four. Lights."

"No; There. Are. No. 2's."

What is: A conversation between two William Shatner impersonators?

[Jason Eberly]

This was honestly not even in my thoughts when I came up with this idea. I just think that Mac, and Walter to a lesser extent, are scientists at heart. They were scientists before they were heroes, and became heroes only because of the circumstances surrounding their scienitific discoveries. I'd like to see them doing what they love to do, puttering around in the lab, helping humanity that way rather than always in pajamas or fur.

Doesn't mean they need to invent a new doohickie to save the day every comic issue. But how cool would it be to see one of them invent a solar-powered toaster, or popcorn that doesn't get stuck in your teeth? I dunno...I guess I just want that feeling that they have lives away from Alpha, lives that still make a difference. Both of them have lost so much since becoming heroes, wouldn't it be nice to get to regularly see them doing what they love to do?

Well, when you put it all logically and heartfelt at the same time like that...no.

Cerealously, I agree absolutely with what you put here. In comics, there is just too much of "scientist" meaning "I know everything". Once upon a time, Bruce Banner was 'merely' a nuclear physicist. Now he's building superconductive magnetic infindibulators out of ipods that can determine what Velveeta is actually made of. Or Tony Stark was once 'merely' an engineer, but is now a futurist who can well...predict the future. I would prefer, say, Mac building a car that uses electromagnetism as a perpetual motion energy source but not knowing why mixing mentos and diet coke causes a fizzy mess (though I know it is because the carbonation gnomes living in the bubbles have racist feelings about Dutch mints).

[Le Messor]

Mac building a car that uses electromagnetism as a perpetual motion energy source

Madison's kind of already done that. (With Heather's father's car, iirc.)

But, yeah, I agree it'd be cool if they had specialised scientists who actually specialised.
Then again, this is comics; that's kind of not what I read for, either. Like villains who aren't a specific criminal, but are just 'criminals'. (ie: not thieves or murderers or whatever, just people trying to take over the world. Of course!)

But it'd be nice to see an exception.

- Le Messor
Willow: So, you feeling better about Angel?
Buffy: Well we talked, then, then he ripped out the heart of a demon and fed it to me and then we talked some more.
Willow: See? That's how it should work.

[Flightpath07]

Madison's kind of already done that. (With Heather's father's car, iirc.)

Speaking of Madison Jeffires, this'd be a great time for him to show up, wouldn't it? Heather and Mac are not currently 'together', Madison has been brainwashed more times than a D&D Intellect Devourer in a dishwasher, the Unity team can always use one more powerful villain...

Can you tell that i stopped being a Jeffries fan when Byrne stopped writing him? Since then...not a fan.


I would prefer, say, Mac building a car that uses electromagnetism as a perpetual motion energy source but not knowing why mixing mentos and diet coke causes a fizzy mess.

Exactly. Now, he might have people working for him, specialists in other fields, that would fill him in on those things. Rather than Walter and Mac being the 'scientific be-all end-all' all-knowing types, they'd just be two scientists working with others, in a Department run by and named for Mac...plus, they'd be the only two scientists who solve problems with their knuckles.

[Flightpath07]

What is: A conversation between two William Shatner impersonators?


lol - I got THAT one right away!

[Silvian_Bruno]

Funny thing: The tendency to use Richards-like characters only as plot devices when some crazy new threat occurs is where the "Reed Richards is Useless" trope comes from.

That's part of why I never thought of Guardian as the "Canadian Richards", but more of a Canadian Tony Stark. His powers are science/tech based, yes, but his stories don't have quite the same need to rush back to the drawing board to design a new anti-new villain machine every month.

So yeah, I'd like to see more of Mac and Walt being scientists, and I like the way Pak and Van Lente are handling them, (especially with how well they've done science heroes in the past, IE: Bruce Banner and Amadeus Cho) but there are probably many different ways such a change could turn out.

Also, seeing as most of Alpha Flight (except maybe Northstar and Puck) are more humanists than patriots, wouldn't removing the government influence also remove the need to set the stories primarily in Canada?

[Flightpath07]

seeing as most of Alpha Flight (except maybe Northstar and Puck) are more humanists than patriots

Not agreeing with this, sorry.

[Silvian_Bruno]

That's fair, but maybe I should clarify?

In the new series Guardian has made repeated points that the Government initially forced him to wear the flag, and that it's the Canadian people he cares about, not politics or jingoism. Sasquatch & Snowbird have enough international adventures to suggest they don't need a home base per say.

I singled out Northstar because, even though his terrorist roots don't often influence stories, he's still fiercely proud of Quebec (depending on the writer) and that doesn't seem to change whether he's in English speaking Canada (Flight) or the US (X-Men).

Also, I meant Puck in a more joking way, since much of his personality is well-meaning stereotypes (the constant "eh"s, love of beer, complaining about nowhere to get a poutine, etc.) and Pak has already written him as against the idea of crying to "Uncle Sam" for help.

Sorry if I'm sidetracking things here, I just realize that comment might have seemed more resentful than I'd intended it. I have nothing against humanism and/or patriotism.

[rplass]

In the new series Guardian has made repeated points that the Government initially forced him to wear the flag, and that it's the Canadian people he cares about, not politics or jingoism. Sasquatch & Snowbird have enough international adventures to suggest they don't need a home base per say.

I singled out Northstar because, even though his terrorist roots don't often influence stories, he's still fiercely proud of Quebec (depending on the writer) and that doesn't seem to change whether he's in English speaking Canada (Flight) or the US (X-Men).

Also, I meant Puck in a more joking way, since much of his personality is well-meaning stereotypes (the constant "eh"s, love of beer, complaining about nowhere to get a poutine, etc.) and Pak has already written him as against the idea of crying to "Uncle Sam" for help.

THIS. You make good points about these characters. It shouldn't be difficult for readers to associate Alpha Flight with Canada.

[Flightpath07]

That's fair, but maybe I should clarify?

In the new series Guardian has made repeated points that the Government initially forced him to wear the flag, and that it's the Canadian people he cares about, not politics or jingoism. Sasquatch & Snowbird have enough international adventures to suggest they don't need a home base per say.

I singled out Northstar because, even though his terrorist roots don't often influence stories, he's still fiercely proud of Quebec (depending on the writer) and that doesn't seem to change whether he's in English speaking Canada (Flight) or the US (X-Men).

Also, I meant Puck in a more joking way, since much of his personality is well-meaning stereotypes (the constant "eh"s, love of beer, complaining about nowhere to get a poutine, etc.) and Pak has already written him as against the idea of crying to "Uncle Sam" for help.

Sorry if I'm sidetracking things here, I just realize that comment might have seemed more resentful than I'd intended it. I have nothing against humanism and/or patriotism.

Although Mac doesn't care much for politics, he did make his "the government forced me into it" comments while defending his right to his own life to the court system while they take his daughter away from him. I realize he has said these things before, but in this series he is angry; we all say things when we are angry that get blown a bit out of proportion. I think Mac loves being a Canadian and fighting for the Canadian people. Both he and Heather proudly wear suits with the Maple Leaf emblem on their chests.

I think that Aurora is just as fiercely pro-Quebec as her brother is (and even more pro-Canada than he is), they just both show it in different ways.

Marrina...lol. Well, Marrina just wants revenge on all earthlings, right? lol.

Because the Great Beasts are linked to Walter's Sasquatch form, and because the Great Beasts are linked to the Northern hemisphere if not Canada directly, I can't see Walter wanting to be based out of anyplace other than his homeland. Especially not after he watched what happened when Americans were placed on the Omega (Alpha) Flight team...

Narya has her whole power-set based on protecting Canada from the Great Beasts, so i doubt she wants to be anywhere but Canada.

As a proud first-nations man and a role-model for so many young native men and women, I don't think Michael would want to pack up and head for America permanently, either.

Even though Walter and Snowbird have been involved in many things that took them outside their own country, that doesn't mean they should (or want to) stop being its protectors!

[Le Messor]

Sasquatch & Snowbird have enough international adventures to suggest they don't need a home base per say.

Narya has her whole power-set based on protecting Canada from the Great Beasts, so i doubt she wants to be anywhere but Canada.

Thing with Snowbird is, she shouldn't even be able to operate outside of Canada.
Okay, they kind of ditched that fairly early in volume 1, but it's just she's an interesting one to bring up in this discussion.

- Le Messor
"Sometimes, I think we are alone. Sometimes I think we are not. In either case, the thought is quite staggering."
~ R. Buckminster Fuller

[Silvian_Bruno]

Even though Walter and Snowbird have been involved in many things that took them outside their own country, that doesn't mean they should (or want to) stop being its protectors!

All very good points. I guess my argument was also largely based on the whole "commonwealth of superheroes" teaser. Captain Marvel and his kin, plus groups like Big Hero Six seem to operate outside of their respective countries, and considering how... less than ideal the Canadian government often acts in Marvel comics, the idea of them being on their own but still functioning as an organization just seemed to fall into place.

Le Messor: I mostly brought up Snowbird because she was a recurring character in Hercules, similar to Northstar in X-Men and Puck in the new Wolverine.

[Flightpath07]

To be fair, Snowbird was only in a few Hercules issues, and Puck was only in a few Wolverine issues (Vindicator and Guardian have probably been in more).


considering how... less than ideal the Canadian government often acts in Marvel comics

Currently, I'd agree with this. However, in the past it was so often Department H and their superiors, not the whole government.

[Le Messor]

Le Messor: I mostly brought up Snowbird because she was a recurring character in Hercules, similar to Northstar in X-Men and Puck in the new Wolverine.

Yes, that's the main thing that went through my head when I read your post.

- Le Messor
Yogi Berra (supposably), when asked what he would do if he found a million dollars:
"I'd find the fellow who lost it, and, if he was poor, I'd return it."