Marvel Cancellations?

[Flightpath07]

With the restructuring of Marvel's titles, it looks like the net is rife with rumours of what might be cancelled. Which has caused Christos Gage to appeal to people to buy Avengers Academy, as he is having to defend it against allegations that it is going bye-bye.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/11/19/the-future-of-generation-hope-and-avengrs-academy/

Anybody hear anything else about what they might be cancelling?

[Phil]

I'm confused.

That link is from last year.

[Flightpath07]

Ack. Stupid me, trusting a query to Google to actually pull up something current! And stoopider me, for not checking the date of the article. I guess that's why we have administrators here, eh?

With all the talk about the restructuring, and there is a lot of talk about it already, nobody yet (outside of Joe Q and a few others, i'll bet) seems to know what current Marvel titles will last and which'll get the boot (or "the change").

[Phil]

That would have been around the time of the Volume 4 cancellation so unfortunately we know what got the chop :(

[Flightpath07]

* I hope it wasn't Volume 4. I hope it wasn't Volume 4. *

Did it work?

[Flightpath07]

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23286.html

Something a bit more current.

[Phil]

Yeah, that's what I was on about here (http://alphaflight.net/showthread.php?8361-Hmm) but as far as they've made known so far, nothing's being cancelled per se, just certain titles relaunched with fresh ones launching.

[Flightpath07]

Yeah, that's what I was on about here (http://alphaflight.net/showthread.php?8361-Hmm) but as far as they've made known so far, nothing's being cancelled per se, just certain titles relaunched with fresh ones launching.

I thought I read there would be 20 new titles. Unless they are re-naming a full twenty new titles (seems unlikely that more than 10 would be renamed, if that many), i would think they would have to drop some titles. No point over-saturating the market, that just forces Marvel to drop titles later when people cannot afford to keep getting their regular series as well as picking up the new ones.

[Le Messor]

I thought I read there would be 20 new titles. Unless they are re-naming a full twenty new titles (seems unlikely that more than 10 would be renamed, if that many), i would think they would have to drop some titles. No point over-saturating the market, that just forces Marvel to drop titles later when people cannot afford to keep getting their regular series as well as picking up the new ones.

Get down with S.O.P.

[Phil]

I thought I read there would be 20 new titles.
20 #1's.


No point over-saturating the market, that just forces Marvel to drop titles later when people cannot afford to keep getting their regular series as well as picking up the new ones.
And the fact that they'd do that surprises you, of all people? :lol:

[Flightpath07]

20 #1's.


And the fact that they'd do that surprises you, of all people? :lol:

Oh, you know me so well!

Still, I can always hope they'll come around to my way of thinking...

[EccentricSage]

Oh, you know me so well!

Still, I can always hope they'll come around to my way of thinking...

Your turn to be the hopeless optimist? Better wear a cup. :p


Blaugh, just followed the link and saw that JQ is using this as a chance to stroke his ego by doing terrible redesigns for characters who would look better in some of their more classic costumes. I hate this guy so much.

Watch, they won't bother to fix Wildchild's idiotic goth kid outfit and tacky piercings.

Why the hell does Thor have swords?

[Flightpath07]

Your turn to be the hopeless optimist? Better wear a cup. :p

Doth though wound me? If thou prick me, shalt i not bleed?

Or, to be more common-era, tru dat.

[Flightpath07]

And, to show I wasn't COMPLETELY delusional in my thoughts...

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/07/nine-titles-end-in-october-as-marvel-now-begins/

That is just what is being cancelled in October...no word on whether other titles will be cancelled in the months to come.

[Phil]

But out of those titles (Captain America, Fantastic Four, FF, Incredible Hulk, Invincible Iron Man, New Mutants, The Mighty Thor, Uncanny X-Men and X-Men Legacy.) six are being relaunched with new #1's in November so they're not being cancelled per se.

[Le Messor]

But out of those titles ... Uncanny X-Men

Wait...
So Uncanny went for nearly 600 issues, being one of the longest-lasting series ever, then was reset for no good reason to the protests of some fans...
Only to be cancelled and restarted again a few months later?
How many issues did / will it make it to this time?

- Le Messor
"I'm defending her honor, which is more than she ever did."
~ Groucho

[Flightpath07]

Wait...
So Uncanny went for nearly 600 issues, being one of the longest-lasting series ever, then was reset for no good reason to the protests of some fans...
Only to be cancelled and restarted again a few months later?
How many issues did / will it make it to this time?

- Le Messor
"I'm defending her honor, which is more than she ever did."
~ Groucho

The "House of Ideas" it may be, but they never said GOOD ideas...

[Chris]

Hickman's Avengers book that's debuting in December is supposed to have 18 members. It would be nice if Marrina rejoined the Avengers. Or have an Alphan who hasn't been a member join the team like Puck or Sasquatch. I still remember Puck's face teased on the cover of West Coast Avengers #1 as a possible member.

[rplass]

We also saw Sasquatch and Northstar as time-displaced members of the Avengers in Avengers Forever #12 (http://alphaflight.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=923&c=109)!

Captain America also flat out said in Heroic Age: Heroes #1 (http://alphaflightcollector.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/captain-america-comments-on-alpha-flight-members-in-heroic-age-heroes-1/) that Northstar could make a “very talented Avenger”

[Chris]

Yup we did talk about "time-displaced" Sasquatch and Northstar with Kurt Busiek on your review of Defenders: From the Marvel Vault #1 (http://alphaflightcollector.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/marrinas-head-from-the-marvel-vault-1)

Would love to see Sasquatch helping out 17 other Avengers.

[Flightpath07]

Hickman's Avengers book that's debuting in December is supposed to have 18 members. It would be nice if Marrina rejoined the Avengers. Or have an Alphan who hasn't been a member join the team like Puck or Sasquatch. I still remember Puck's face teased on the cover of West Coast Avengers #1 as a possible member.

My biggest problem with that, it would mean that he/she/they had all but given up on protecting their home country of Canada and moved to the USA. As a proud Canadian, I don't like that idea one bit.

[rplass]

My biggest problem with that, it would mean that he/she/they had all but given up on protecting their home country of Canada and moved to the USA. As a proud Canadian, I don't like that idea one bit.

Sort of... the Avengers routinely take on global-level threats, so by protecting the globe, Sasquatch would be protecting Canada as well.

[Flightpath07]

Sort of... the Avengers routinely take on global-level threats, so by protecting the globe, Sasquatch would be protecting Canada as well.

Sure. But a large part of what made Alpha Flight, Alpha Flight, was that they were based in Canada, taking on threats to their native land.

Yes, i know, they took on plenty of other threats, too. Granted.

[Sypes]

I feel like the odd man out here, but I actualy like all those changes. I know that most people hate changes (or do people fear changes in general? Change jobs, change friends, etc... ) but I actually love changes. I allows new ideas, whether they work or not, to flow and take the good and the bad out of it. If someone never gave Alpha Flight a chance, we wouldn't have had the chance to love them so much. So why not allow the change to come, and then judge whether you like it or not?

[EccentricSage]

"Avengers Canada". Problem solved.

[Flightpath07]

"Avengers Canada". Problem solved.

And...my problem with THAT is...nothing.

As long as it doesn't feature any members of Alpha Flight.

Why would Flight members leave Alpha Flight to join the Avengers? Just because Flight isn't published monthly, doesn't mean the members of said team aren't busy with that team. And, isn't Avengers Canada basically just Omega Flight?

[EccentricSage]

And...my problem with THAT is...nothing.

As long as it doesn't feature any members of Alpha Flight.

Why would Flight members leave Alpha Flight to join the Avengers? Just because Flight isn't published monthly, doesn't mean the members of said team aren't busy with that team. And, isn't Avengers Canada basically just Omega Flight?

Well, I was really just making a joke about how Marvel only values Avengers and X-Men. But I'll give the idea a go anyhow.

Marvel hates Alpha Flight and is Avengers obsessed, and Avengers sells. It's all about branding, and a smart writer could inject quite a bit of meta humor into the book regarding that. The idea is that they'd still be Alpha Flight, but with a new name, to their chagrin, and they'd still refer to themselves as Alpha. Depending on the current state of the Avengers and their relations with the government and PR, that is. I never kept up with Avengers so I'm not sure about their current standing and whether or not it could be played up as a political issue, strengthening alliances, etc.

[Flightpath07]

Well, I was really just making a joke about how Marvel only values Avengers and X-Men. But I'll give the idea a go anyhow.

Marvel hates Alpha Flight and is Avengers obsessed, and Avengers sells. It's all about branding, and a smart writer could inject quite a bit of meta humor into the book regarding that. The idea is that they'd still be Alpha Flight, but with a new name, to their chagrin, and they'd still refer to themselves as Alpha. Depending on the current state of the Avengers and their relations with the government and PR, that is. I never kept up with Avengers so I'm not sure about their current standing and whether or not it could be played up as a political issue, strengthening alliances, etc.

Officially, it's now "No More Avengers".

Y'know, kinda like "No More Mutants" a la Scarlet Witch. Looks like any and all Avengers teams will now have X-Men on them.

So, Canadian Avengers would have to have both Avengers and X-Men on it, as well as Alpha Flight members; so, there wouldn't be room for many Flight members on the team then, while there would be a bunch of American (or at least non-Canadian) heroes on it, making it much more like Omega Flight.

[Le Messor]

I feel like the odd man out here, but I actualy like all those changes. I know that most people hate changes (or do people fear changes in general? Change jobs, change friends, etc... ) but I actually love changes. I allows new ideas, whether they work or not, to flow and take the good and the bad out of it. If someone never gave Alpha Flight a chance, we wouldn't have had the chance to love them so much. So why not allow the change to come, and then judge whether you like it or not?

We fear change.

2587

Why not allow change to come? Because I can't. Any more than I can stop it.
It's going to happen whether I allow it or not.

For a more serious answer to your question:
First, I don't believe there will be much, or any change at all. Most of it will be a change of window dressing in the hopes of a sales spike. Okay, a reshuffling of creative teams - but in some of those books, that is the status quo.

Second, it isn't the change, or the new that I fear - it's loss of what I like. And, in my experience, that's usually what comes of these sweeping changes.

Third, in my opinion, comics have been changing for the worse since the 2000s. (I'd say since the 90s, but I like today's comics much more than 90s comics.)

Fourth, these changes have rarely, if ever in my experience, been for the better.

So, those are my reasons for standing back and watching with an eye of cynicism.

- Le Messor
"If no one uses it, there's a reason."

[Phil]

From what information's been released so far, I'm looking forward to Uncanny Avengers as I absolutely love Uncanny X-Force so I'm trusting Remender's writing, and Cassaday's art is always a joy.

I don't like the concept of All New X-Men and I haven't enjoyed any of Bendis' Marvel work (not slating it, it's just not personally to my taste; he obviously appeals to a lot of people so each to their own) so while I'll get the first issue, I don't hold out hope for my enjoyment.

Hickman's Avengers titles are a grey area for me. I love Hickman's indie work, and his fresh work for hire creations, ie Shield, Secret Warriors, but have found that his Fantastic Four and Ultimates runs haven't sparked anything with me. And the idea of 3 books a month doesn't sit well with my wallet.

But other than UA nothing's been solicited yet, so we'll see come November/December.

[Flightpath07]

http://gpryme.tumblr.com/post/27336046129/a-plus-x-sdcc

New series will be A+X.



And...very good article below on creator-owned comics doing well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/business/media/image-comics-is-having-a-creative-renaissance.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all

[Le Messor]

That Shi'ar character whose name I don't remember? And Peanut (?)

uh... interesting choices...

- Le Messor
"I'm not a complete idiot - Some parts are missing!"

[Sypes]

Since Iceman and Warbird are in that A+X #1 cover, does that mean that the team with Northstar - Astonishing X-Men - doesn't exist already? Maybe he's getting his own series ? *crosses fingers*

[Phil]

The Astonishing team still exists.
A+X is a limited anyway.

[Flightpath07]

The company is moving creative teams, and cancelling 9 books: Captain America, Fantastic Four, FF, Incredible Hulk, Invincible Iron Man, New Mutants, The Mighty Thor, Uncanny X-Men and X-Men Legacy.

http://blog.midtowncomics.com/marvel/5608/

[Phil]

Yeah, but Captain America, Fantastic Four, Hulk, Iron Man and Thor are getting new #1's the next month so they're just rebooting rather than cancelling.
Uncanny X-Men is becoming All New X-Men so again thats a reboot.
The other two... pass...

[Le Messor]

... The other two...

Which did you forget - New Mutants, Legacy, or FF?

None of the new titles interest me yet, but I said that about the new 52 from DC and started reading two of their titles - which I will probably soon upgrade to 1!
So, that shows how wrong I can be...

- Le Messor
"I'm out of bed and dressed. What more do you want?"

[Flightpath07]

Well, as I pointed out on page one of this thread, back two weeks ago,

With all the talk about the restructuring, and there is a lot of talk about it already, nobody yet (outside of Joe Q and a few others, i'll bet) seems to know what current Marvel titles will last and which'll get the boot (or "the change").

Phil, it wasn't a thread so much about which will get cancelled, as admitting that some would be cancelled and some would be "changed" and/or rebooted, and how nobody (at that time) knew too much about which titles would be which.

Mik, I get 3 Marvel titles, 6 DC titles, and 6 "other publisher" titles. And i expect that last category to be the one that climbs very quickly.

[Le Messor]

, and 6 "other publisher" titles. And i expect that last category to be the one that climbs very quickly.

Why am I not surprised?

[Phil]

Which did you forget - New Mutants, Legacy, or FF?
My bad; I forgot FF as that's what I've always called Fantastic Four as shorthand.



Phil, it wasn't a thread so much about which will get cancelled, as admitting that some would be cancelled and some would be "changed" and/or rebooted, and how nobody (at that time) knew too much about which titles would be which.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. My point was that Midtown's line that you quoted clearly uses the word 'cancelled' which they're not. My issue is with the way they phrased it, not you.

[Flightpath07]

Actually, a series that starts again at number 1, in my books, had to of been cancelled. But that is semantics.

Michael, smaller publishers, as we all know, do not have the luxury of propping up a dwindling industry by use of big movies and the accompanying merchandising blitz. Smaller companies frequently lure the best names in the business (taking, for instance, those Marvel recently fired in their "down-sizing" - see numerous stories on the rapid rise of Valiant Comics as a great example), and they have to tell the best stories they are capable of, issue after issue. And, even then, they may not make their mark in the industry, but if they don't it won't be for lack of try or lack of talent. I admire the smaller publishers; like Image in the 90's, they pushed the biggest boys in the sandbox (Marvel and DC) to the brink of bankruptcies. They force change in the industry, by setting high standards and meeting or exceeding them. Just because something doesn't have Marvel or DC on the cover, doesn't mean it isn't good; those of you who may miss out on what the smaller comic companies are doing, I feel sad for you and for what you will miss. (Not saying "you", just whomever.)

[Phil]

Actually, a series that starts again at number 1, in my books, had to of been cancelled. But that is semantics.

Semantics, definitely.
I see it as; take a TV Series, Season 1 has an Episode 1, Season 2 has an Episode 1. They're the same show, it hasn't been cancelled until a final episode is made. Just that season has ended. In comics, that Volume has ended.

Especially in comics where an #1 follows immediately the 4 weeks after #529 (or whatever) as a reboot.

AF with years between series'/volumes is a cancellation followed by a relaunch.

But again, just how my mind sees it.

[Le Messor]

My bad; I forgot FF as that's what I've always called Fantastic Four as shorthand.

Pretty much everyone did. It's always been a problem with that title.


Michael, smaller publishers, as we all know, do not have the luxury of propping up a dwindling industry by use of big movies and the accompanying merchandising blitz. Smaller companies frequently lure the best names in the business...

FP,
my 'why am I not surprised' was not meant to mean a cynical 'oh, that's so typical of you' so much as, 'considering the offerings of Marvel and DC lately, of course people are being driven to the indies - even if they got started by reading the big two'.

That said, I've always found indie titles harder to read; in the sense that they're published less reliably, and my LCSs get them in even less reliably. That second isn't their fault, but still makes it literally difficult to read a full series.


I see it as; take a TV Series, Season 1 has an Episode 1, Season 2 has an Episode 1. They're the same show, it hasn't been cancelled until a final episode is made. Just that season has ended. In comics, that Volume has ended.

Please, let's not start this argument again. :/

- Le Messor
"I'm so high, I can hear Heaven... But Heaven can't hear me."
~ Hero, Chad Kroeger and Josie Scott

[Flightpath07]

FP,
my 'why am I not surprised' was not meant to mean a cynical 'oh, that's so typical of you' so much as, 'considering the offerings of Marvel and DC lately, of course people are being driven to the indies - even if they got started by reading the big two'.

Well, even if you had meant it in a "I'm not surprised, as you're hating on Marvel a lot lately" sort of way, I'd be okay with that, cuz it is true. That being said, glad we were on the same page. Again, my rant was not directed at you per se, it was just a general rant ("General Rant, reporting for duty, sir!").


That said, I've always found indie titles harder to read; in the sense that they're published less reliably, and my LCSs get them in even less reliably. That second isn't their fault, but still makes it literally difficult to read a full series.

I try to find something that it sounds like i will enjoy, before issue one comes out, and then special-order it through my LCS. Most shops will bring in what you want, if you are guaranteed to buy it.

[Le Messor]

I try to find something that it sounds like i will enjoy, before issue one comes out, and then special-order it through my LCS. Most shops will bring in what you want, if you are guaranteed to buy it.

In theory... In theory, Communism works.

In practice, there are usually a lot of skipped issues; and they're harder to play catchup on than the Big Two.

- Le Messor
"I'm sorry. I'm very, very sorry, but if it makes you feel any better, my "fun time Buffy party night" involved watching a robot throw Spike through a window, so if you wanna trade... no... wait... I wouldn't give that memory up for anything."
~ Buffy

[Jason Eberly]

Even if Marvel relaunches Cap, Fantastic Four, and the rest of the titles I currently collect, it still seems like they'll be losing at least two sales from me each month. Uncanny X-Men and X-Men Legacy are to be replaced by Uncanny Avengers (a title I swear we were joking about on this site about a year ago) and All-New X-Men. The former just contributes to the further diluting of the Avengers idea/franchise and, like changing Thunderbolts to Dark Avengers, I will not support it. The latter...well, after suffering through the destruction of the concept of the Avengers by Bendis over the past 7-8 years, I have no desire to follow him to the X-books (or any other books, for that matter).

I find myself getting less and less new issues and using the money I save on $2.99 or $3.99 new issues and buying back issues with better stories from decades past, usually for much cheaper than a new issue. Even the $25 Marvel Masterworks averages out to about $2.50 an issue (or sometimes even less).

[Le Messor]

I find myself getting less and less new issues and using the money I save on $2.99 or $3.99 new issues and buying back issues with better stories from decades past, usually for much cheaper than a new issue. Even the $25 Marvel Masterworks averages out to about $2.50 an issue (or sometimes even less).

I'm halfway with you - except I don't have a good back issue supply. Have to drive up to Sydney for the nearest one (3 hours each way).

- Le Messor
"I'm sorry Buffy. This conversation is reserved for people who actually have a future."
~ Cordelia

[Phil]

Uncanny X-Men and X-Men Legacy are to be replaced by Uncanny Avengers (a title I swear we were joking about on this site about a year ago) and All-New X-Men.

Uncanny X-Men is becoming All New X-Men, the fate of X-Men Legacy past #275's 'final issue' is unrevealed at the moment; there are rumours of a Jean Grey Academy type book replacing it.

Uncanny Avengers is a brand new title.

[Flightpath07]

Um...Phil, is this going to be like our discussion over the "cancellation" word? You said "Uncanny X-Men is becoming All New X-Men". Yet, All New X-Men is a series featuring the time-lost original X-Men. So, how can that be a comic "becoming a series called something different" (quotation mine, not yours; you just used the word "becoming"), when I see that as a definite "cancelling one series, launching a whole new series about something else entirely"?

If you change the cast, change the team behind it, change the whole premise, and start over at number one...?...do you see where I am going with this one? To me, this is more Marvel double-speak; trying to trick those who were subscribers to Uncanny to being subscribers of All New. Or, even worse, those with subscriptions will never be asked, All New will just show up on their door even though it is something completely different! Man, this kind of thing gets me SO angry! This is everything I hate about the way Marvel does business, and more.

And, again, it is the same thing with X-Men Legacy. If I read this right, the current cast of X-Men Legacy is Cannonball, Chamber, Frenzy, Gambit, Rachel Grey, Husk, Iceman, Mimic, and Rogue. Uncanny Avengers, meanwhile, will feature Thor, Havok, Scarlet Witch, Rogue, Captain America, and Wolverine. Um...yeah, no. If this is what Marvel is referring to as one comic becoming another without cancelling...they're full of s#^t.

Oops. I just saw that you wrote that Uncanny Avengers is a new title. Nevermind, then.

And this is why i cannot believe one single thing that comes out of Marvel's mouth. Sickening business practices lacking ethics and truth; absolutely sickening.

[Jason Eberly]

Uncanny X-Men is becoming All New X-Men, the fate of X-Men Legacy past #275's 'final issue' is unrevealed at the moment; there are rumours of a Jean Grey Academy type book replacing it.

Uncanny Avengers is a brand new title.

FP got it. I didn't mean that ANXM is directly replacing XL and UA is directly replacing UX. It was more like, "Marvel is cancelling two books I enjoy and have collected for decades and the closest things they've offered in replacement (to date) I have no desire to purchase.

Also, I thought there already was a Jean Grey Academy book...isn't that what Wolverine and the X-Men is about?

[Phil]

Um...Phil, is this going to be like our discussion over the "cancellation" word? You said "Uncanny X-Men is becoming All New X-Men". Yet, All New X-Men is a series featuring the time-lost original X-Men. So, how can that be a comic "becoming a series called something different" (quotation mine, not yours; you just used the word "becoming"), when I see that as a definite "cancelling one series, launching a whole new series about something else entirely"?

It's not about something else entirely though.
They've said it will still feature the current X-Men as well.

A cancellation is when an ongoing title is ended prematurely because of sales.
This isn't that.

This is Bendis becoming the writer of Uncanny X-Men just with a name change, like when X-Men (1963) became Uncanny X-Men, and X-Men (1991) Became New X-Men and then X-Men and then X-Men Legacy, or Incredible Hulk becoming Incredible Hercules, or Journey Into Mystery becoming The Mighty Thor.
Except Marvel are rolling out with a #1 to boost sales and this whole NOW! initiative.
All New X-Men will undoubtedly roll back into Uncanny X-Men again later down the line, either with the same numbering, a new #1 or maybe even the combined numbering.

#1 of All New X-Men will come out the month after Uncanny X-Men #20.
There is no publication gap.

But again, this is just the publishing point of view; I get why you and many others call it a cancellation, and I do agree it's a tired cheap stunt and I won't be buying All New X-Men, unless Madison appears in it.

[Jason Eberly]

I think the premise of All-New is that the original five students come from the past early in their careers to the present day. I'm not sure how many of the current characters will be appearing (if any).

Also, with Bendis' track record of not knowing (or caring to know) the actual personalities of the characters he writes and transforming them just to fit his stories, I wouldn't want him touching any of the Alpha Flight crew.

I think it was one of the Greek philosophers around 500 BC (Heraclitus?) who realized that the character drives the story, not vice versa when he said "Character is destiny".

Bendis does the exact opposite of that, changing the characters to fit his story.

[Le Messor]

... changing the characters to fit his story.

Oddly enough, that's supposed to be one of the first things you learn not to do when learning writing.

- Le Messor
"A word and a stone let go cannot be called back."
~ Thomas Fuller
(edited to remove embarrassing admission.)

[Phil]

I think the premise of All-New is that the original five students come from the past early in their careers to the present day. I'm not sure how many of the current characters will be appearing (if any).


Bendis: It is a big cast. I like a big cast, and all these characters are very dramatic characters. Kitty, and... there's so many characters, but I don't think they want me to say who they are right now. Not everyone's walking out of Avengers vs. X-Men, and once you start naming names, people start doing the math, so I don't want to ruin what happens in #11 and #12 of Avengers vs. X-Men.
Nrama: But it's safe to say that several current X-Men characters are going to be playing a role?
Bendis: It's not just the five of them, it's "the X-Men." It's all of the X-Men. Them coming here, and seeing the "now" X-Men — the Jean Grey School cast of characters — reacting to the five, is a pretty big deal.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/all-new-x-men-brian-michael-bendis.html

[Phil]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=40184

So so far we have Iron Man, Thor, Hulk #1's confirmed for November, carrying on publication of the titles, straight through without a gap.

Two more days to go, so time for Fantastic Four & Captain America teasers too.

[Phil]

So, Captain America, Fantastic Four & FF to have #1's in November (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-now-november-teasers-friday.html), continuing a seemless publishing schedule with no gap from October's 'final' issue.

So apart from the non-confirmation of x-Men Legacy & New Mutants, and the change in title of Uncanny X-Men, it's all pretty much business as usual...

[Phil]

Confirmation of X-Men Legacy: http://geek-news.mtv.com/2012/08/03/exclusive-simon-spurrier-tan-eng-huat-x-men-legacy-marvel-now/

By Si Spurrier! So hopefully we'll see some Jeffries! ;)

So so far, only New Mutants is left in the air...

[Jason Eberly]

It's also possible that Legacy could refer to a relaunched New Mutants book, as the "Legacy" spoiler would seem a little too straightforward if it were referring to X-Men Legacy.

[Phil]

That's true.
Either way, it's another book from that list that's not cancelled cancelled.

[Flightpath07]

"it's another book from that list that's not cancelled cancelled"

sigh. is that anything like "not done done"? or anything like "all new, except for the parts that aren't"? or "reboot without rebooting"?

Sorry. I just get so tired of double-speak, and Bendis (sorry, just had to throw him in there, didn't I? I am sure this isn't ENTIRELY his fault...) and Marvel are the worst of the industry for this. I just want comic companies to stop sounding like lawyers, or like they are talking down to or patronizing you. Wouldn't it be great if everybody in the industry was a fan first and foremost? Sometimes when we grow up, we stop being fans and we just wanna get rich/noticed/whatever.

I'm ranting again. Sorry.

[Flightpath07]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=40288

Interesting article. As a person who is not a finance major, I have trouble wrapping my head around everything said here, but from how well DC is doing, and with the push on now from the lesser-lights and smaller companies, I can see why Marvel has had to make a drastic change to their lineups.

http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/1/71/945?articleID=124267

[Le Messor]

I note (with a trace of sadness) that three issues of AvX were in the top 10.

That's why it's event after event after event...

- Le Messor
"Imitation is the sincerest form of plagiarism."
~ George Bernard Shaw

[Jason Eberly]

I note (with a trace of sadness) that three issues of AvX were in the top 10.

That's why it's event after event after event...

Don't blame me...I didn't buy them!

[Flightpath07]

Don't blame me...I didn't buy them!

Thank you for standing strong, Jason!

[Phil]

sigh. is that anything like "not done done"? or anything like "all new, except for the parts that aren't"? or "reboot without rebooting"?

Sorry. I just get so tired of double-speak

But that's the thing; Marvel have never used the word cancellation; that was purely other websites and that my issue with that Midtown article.
All the stated was that the October solicited issues were the final issues in that Volume.
There was never any claim that the series' were cancelled or that there wouldn't be a new issue the following month.

As to your Bendis point... I tend to be with you on that one, but I'll wait to get the first issue before I comment.

And don't ever be sorry for ranting, even though I didn't personally consider anything you put a rant.

[Phil]

I'm actually enjoying AvX for the most part.

I haven't bought any tie-in issues, bar the Jeffries AA ones, and I've understood the storyline. I've preferred it to Fear Itself, Siege and Secret Invasion as a whole; possibly for the different writers - I've really enjoyed Fraction and Aaron's issues, and 'strangely enough' been really underwhelmed by Bendis' ones so far.

[Le Messor]

I'm actually enjoying AvX for the most part.


Nooooooooooooooo!!!!

Wait, no, that's fine. It's up to you what you enjoy.

OTOH, my issue with it is more the principle behind it than whether it's enjoyable for itself.

- LM
"The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at once."
~ Samuel Smiles

[Flightpath07]

But that's the thing; Marvel have never used the word cancellation; that was purely other websites and that my issue with that Midtown article.
All the stated was that the October solicited issues were the final issues in that Volume.
There was never any claim that the series' were cancelled or that there wouldn't be a new issue the following month.

As to your Bendis point... I tend to be with you on that one, but I'll wait to get the first issue before I comment.

And don't ever be sorry for ranting, even though I didn't personally consider anything you put a rant.

Well, as i stated back on the first page of this thread, "I thought I read there would be 20 new titles. Unless they are re-naming a full twenty new titles (seems unlikely that more than 10 would be renamed, if that many), i would think they would have to drop some titles."

That has been what I have been waiting to figure out, and was 'somewhat' the point (for me) of this thread; what will be renamed, what will be brand new, and what will be discontinued.

There are some grey areas, to be sure. For instance, if Hulk becomes Red She Hulk, isn't that technically a discontinue of one series (Hulk) followed by the launching of a new series (Red She Hulk)? Marvel seems to see that differently than i do.

All in all, just waiting to see what titles will be chopped and lost. Hoping they aren't the few (2) that I currently enjoy from Marvel. In other news that is much the same, I muse that if they change creative teams on the titles I currently get, i may no longer get those titles; we'll see.

I wasn't so much using the midtown article as the one I linked to on page one of this thread, about four or six posts down. They never said 'cancel' either, it was just implied as the article wondered what would be unveiled. And with "20 new titles" promised, i still tend to think that at least a few titles/series have to go the way of the dodo.

And Phil, i am NEVER really sorry for ranting...I just sometimes feel so disgusted with Marvel in particular that I am starting to wonder if i need to start my own crusade against them, lol.

[Phil]

So Spurrier's book is definitely X-Men Legacy (http://geek-news.mtv.com/2012/08/10/si-spurrier-tan-eng-huat-x-men-legacy-marvel-now/#more-81914) and focuses on Legion, so it looks like New Mutants has been cancelled. So far anyway.

Si's sold the book to me in that non-interview interview already!

[Flightpath07]

On Twitter, Christos Gage confirms that Marvel is cancelling Avengers Academy after issue 39.

"I'm afraid so. It's been a hell of a ride. Thank you all. @TDSpidey616 NOooooooooooooooooooooooo! Avengers Academy ending at issue #39 :("

So, down to only getting two Marvel comics now, and am expecting that one of "Defenders" or "Wolverine and the X-Men" will hit the chopping block as well. At this rate, I'll be Marvel-free soon! Yay!

[Phil]

Defenders is ending at #12.

[Flightpath07]

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/08/15/marvel-icon-solicitations-november-2012-periodicals/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Thanx Phil, just noticed that myself!

btw, is it just me, or does Marvel's "Indestructible Hulk" sound like a rip-off of DC's "Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E." ? As a Franken-reader, I'd say it DOES!

[Le Messor]

I don't think I'll have any Marvels to pick up after this... though I'm tempted with that 'The First X-Men' book, despite it being everything I don't want.
What's wrong with me?

(P.S. I recently wrote Christos Gage in response to my published letter in #32, and told him that the way Marvel seems to be trying to make comics I don't enjoy, his AA job was in trouble...)

- Le Messor
"In a consumer society there are inevitably two kinds of slaves: the prisoners of addiction and the prisoners of envy."
~ Ivan Illich

[Alphan East]

Its amusing how Marvel lets their writers paint themselves into a corner with stories they don't know how finish, change characters with the same amount of thought as they use to change their socks, kill off beloved characters on nothing more than a whim... and then believe they can fix everything with a mindless sweep of cancellations and reboots.
Sorry, did I say amusing... I meant frustrating as $#!t. :)

[Flightpath07]

Hey there now Alphan East, come on; we all know that Marvel has said that no comics are being cancelled and that this is clearly not a reboot. And clearly we all need to take Marvel at their word. :rolleyes:

[Jason Eberly]

I think I would be willing to pay an extra quarter for a series that guaranteed me my money back if it doesn't make it to at least issue #25. As it is, I find myself less willing to try new titles not only due to the increasing cost, but because I am tired of titles getting yanked before they even have a chance to establish a "voice".

[Le Messor]

change characters with the same amount of thought as they use to change their socks

Hey, I put a lot of thought into those socks!


I think I would be willing to pay an extra quarter for a series that guaranteed me my money back if it doesn't make it to at least issue #25. As it is, I find myself less willing to try new titles not only due to the increasing cost, but because I am tired of titles getting yanked before they even have a chance to establish a "voice".

I fully understand that... but on the other hand, that attitude is also why they don't last to 25 issues. Nobody buys them, so they don't make it.

- Le Messor
"In a civilized society, it is the duty of all citizens to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is the duty of all citizens to disobey unjust laws."
~ Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

[Flightpath07]

LM and Jason, that seems to be a catch-22. Or a self-fulfilling prophecy. Reality is, we are so used to Marvel cancelling series (or rebooting them, or changing them to star other people, or whatever else they can cook up) before some (usually) very good writers have a chance to hook people firmly, that we don't bother to pick them up (or fear liking them and then having them cancelled).

Unfortunately in this business, rather than learn from their mistakes, companies like this just hope that we have short memories and keep rehashing the same tired ideas.

[Le Messor]

A self-filling catch?

[Jason Eberly]

How about this for a new "initiative" (Marvel's newest overused buzzword for "gimmick"):

"Marvel announces its new 'As Promised Guarantee'! We'll promise that the new title or new creative team will that we've hyped to you for months will actually last for a predetermined number of issues or we'll buy back the issues you bought because the artist you were promised that we overhyped jumped the title after two issues! Or the title that we touted as 'the new hottest thing on the planet!' is cancelled after 8 issues because sales tanked!"

"Marvel's 'As Promised Guarantee!'...we'll deliver on our promises, or we'll buy 'em back!"

Nahh...let's just have another event where everything changes and vomit out a bunch of new #1's.

(Geez...I'm starting to sound like FP!)

[Phil]

Just out of curiosity, why should Marvel do that though?
What makes you think Marvel owe you (the customer) anything?
What promises have Marvel broken?

[Jason Eberly]

Just out of curiosity, why should Marvel do that though?

I had a big long explanation typed out, but realized that there really isn't a reason they should do this, but with the readership continuing to dwindle, reboot/relaunch fatigue complaints rising (admittedly, that's just my observation),and rising prices, perhaps its time to begin thinking outside the box to ingratiate themselves back with their audience. They don't have to do this, it was just something off the top of my head.


What makes you think Marvel owe you (the customer) anything?

I never said they did. That doesn't mean they can't offer me something. Many, many companies offer coupons, discounts, rebates, or money-back guarantees to attract new or reward existing customers. And I don't include a comic shop discount because that is the comic shop giving me something for my business, not Marvel or Disney doing so.


What promises have Marvel broken?

Well, offhand, you could call the whole "Alpha Flight is now a regular series/wait, it's a mini again" as a bit of a broken promise, but whether you do or don't, I never said they broke any promises they made. This was a suggestion (again, off the top of my head) of something they could do. For example, they could have given the money-back guarantee that Terry Dodson would have lasted drawing through 12 issues of The Defenders (which was a big part of their hyping the title before it came out...that Terry would draw it, not that he would last 12 issues). When he left after issue 3 or 4 (which is what he did), I could have decided if I wanted to continue reading and keep the issues, or decided I didn't want to continue without Terry drawing and return those issues (even at say, 75% cover price or something. Again, off the top of my head).

Anyway, the point is specifically for them to use THIS idea, merely that I don't see the current gimmicks (err..."initiatives") of constant events, point one issues, or constant renumbering/relaunches/reboots doing anything to a)keep the dwindling readership or b)attract new readers.

[Le Messor]

What promises have Marvel broken?

I could see there being an argument that when they launch a new ongoing series - especially one where they hype a particular creative team (unless it's "The first story arc has Alan Grant writing, Dodgson on pencils, John Hammond on inks, and Dennis Nedry on letters!", emphasis on the 'first story arc') - there's an implicit (but not explicit) promise that the ongoing series will be ongoing with that particular team. And not cancelled after mini- or maxi-series length.
We keep touting the 25 issues number; that's fairly reasonable.


Anyway, the point is specifically for them to use THIS idea, merely that I don't see the current gimmicks (err..."initiatives") of constant events, point one issues, or constant renumbering/relaunches/reboots doing anything to a)keep the dwindling readership or b)attract new readers.

What are you talking about? That encourages plenty of dwindling readership!

- Le Messor
"If you lack sincerity in your search for the truth, you will find what you want to find, whether it is true or not."
~ Mark T. Shirey

[Flightpath07]

LOL. Careful of your broken ankles when you jump off the Marvel bandwagon, as the wagon tends to back up repeatedly as a way of running over you again and again.

[Jason Eberly]

What are you talking about? That encourages plenty of dwindling readership!

I'm not saying this is the perfect idea. I just pulled it out of the air as a way of showing that I feel Marvel (and DC, for that matter) are at a point where they should stretch a bit more in showing good faith to the consumer or as a draw to new costumers.

Again, I'm not saying my idea is the answer, but it's thinking further outside the box than "Hey, let's reboot/renumber/relaunch titles again. We haven't done that for about a year now!" or "Hey, Deadpool is kind of a popular character right now...let's put him on every team in our line!"

[Le Messor]

I'm not saying this is the perfect idea. I just pulled it out of the air as a way of showing that I feel Marvel (and DC, for that matter) are at a point where they should stretch a bit more in showing good faith to the consumer or as a draw to new costumers.

Sorry... I meant Marvel's cancellations.
I really like your idea; guarantees, somehow, of at least 25 issues would be great!

- Le Messor
"In a museum in Havana there are two skulls of Christopher Columbus… one when he was a boy and one when he was a man."
~ Mark Twain

[Phil]

I think the problem nowadays is that there are very very few artists than can do 12 issues a year.
And the only way a company could guarantee a 25 issue run is for people to pay for 25 issues up front, before the first issue is even published, and people won't/can't do that.

[Flightpath07]

people won't/can't do that.

Why do you say that? I think that at least SOME people WOULD do that!


I am tired of titles getting yanked before they even have a chance to establish a "voice"

Let's try this thought on for size. Avengers Academy. Most who read it will tell you, based on the letters page alone, that this title is considered very important to its readers, as evidenced by letters from both the teen-community and/or the gay-community. Both groups (or three groups, including the crossover between the two) consider this a flagship title for themselves.

To me, this title has not only 'established a voice' but has a loyal following clamoring for more comics like this one.

So, what does Marvel do? They cancel it.

That decision makes little sense, on too many levels. I don't know what its sales numbers were (Phil can probably find that out for me), but i would be willing to bet that there are a few series that sold less than it that are still continuing, and currently it is outselling ALL of the 'new' series that Marvel has announced it is putting out - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Once again, i see this as Marvel not knowing their target audience at all.

[Phil]

Why do you say that? I think that at least SOME people WOULD do that!
Well, yeah, some people always would, but it'd involve shelling out $99.75 upfront for something based on just the creative team and title.AQ
And that's just for one book; I get at least 10 titles a month. There's no way on earth I could just pull $1000 out of nowhere for a non-essential luxury.


Let's try this thought on for size. Avengers Academy. Most who read it will tell you, based on the letters page alone, that this title is considered very important to its readers, as evidenced by letters from both the teen-community and/or the gay-community. Both groups (or three groups, including the crossover between the two) consider this a flagship title for themselves.

To me, this title has not only 'established a voice' but has a loyal following clamoring for more comics like this one.

So, what does Marvel do? They cancel it.

That decision makes little sense, on too many levels. I don't know what its sales numbers were (Phil can probably find that out for me), but i would be willing to bet that there are a few series that sold less than it that are still continuing, and currently it is outselling ALL of the 'new' series that Marvel has announced it is putting out - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Once again, i see this as Marvel not knowing their target audience at all.

Let's for a second remember that all we've seen so far is that November's issue is the final issue.
There's been nothing to say we won't get an Avengers Academy Season 2 #1, or another book with the same characters, come December.

However, if there isn't, at least the book had a decent run of 3 years with the same writer.
And to me, having the academy students learn for 3 years and then graduate makes more sense than the New Mutants being students for years and years and years... The kids came to the AA, studied for 3 years and grduated. That's realism.

Looking at July's numbers:-

68
24.91
AVENGERS ACADEMY #33
$2.99
MAR
31,687

Titles selling less:-
FF - Being rebooted
Thor - Being rebooted
Dark Avengers - Just been rebranded from Thunderbolts
Ultimate X-Men
Deadpool - Being rebooted
Scarlett Spider
Winter Soldier
Age of Apocalypse
Venom - Having New Creative Team
X-Factor
Punisher - Being Rebooted
Defenders - Cancelled
Hulk - Being Rebranded
New Mutants - Cancelled
Captain America & ....
Journey Into Mystery - Having New Creative Team

So yeah, it's outselling a few titles, but it's not being singled out for cancellation/change, and it is selling poorly and dropping. It can't be said it wasn't given time to find it's voice or for the creative team to 'get' the book.

[Flightpath07]

I think the problem nowadays is that there are very very few artists than can do 12 issues a year.
And the only way a company could guarantee a 25 issue run is for people to pay for 25 issues up front, before the first issue is even published, and people won't/can't do that.

It wouldn't be that hard for people to sign up for monthly payments for 25 months. It could be done.

[Flightpath07]

And to me, having the academy students learn for 3 years and then graduate makes more sense than the New Mutants being students for years and years and years... The kids came to the AA, studied for 3 years and grduated. That's realism.

The problem being, the kids were nowhere ready to graduate. Instead, Gage seems to have been forced to make drastic changes in a hurry, including de-powering some and killing some, in order to wrap up the book. Suddenly, the pace and direction is off in left-field compared to the rest of the series. To me, this means the writer was only told relatively recently that the book was ending.

[Le Messor]

It wouldn't be that hard for people to sign up for monthly payments for 25 months. It could be done.

That's kind of what happens already.
Also, with the suggested upfront payments - this, too, has already happened. Subscriptions.

- Le Messor
"He who doesn't risk never gets to drink champagne."
~ Russian proverb

[Jason Eberly]

I think the problem nowadays is that there are very very few artists than can do 12 issues a year.

I somewhat disagree. I think it is difficult for most artists today to draw 12 issues a year with the level of detail that they put into comics. I've felt that one of the problems of today is that everybody is trying to make every issue the next Watchmen, or <insert classic masterpiece here> instead of putting out what comics were successfully for decades...a disposable piece of affordable entertainment. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't try their best each issue, but it should be tempered within the time limitations/number of issues they are slated for. Artists like Sal Buscema may never have their work hung in The Louvre, but darnit, the man could draw multiple issues a month for decades and it thoroughly entertained me then and when I read them again now.


And the only way a company could guarantee a 25 issue run is for people to pay for 25 issues up front, before the first issue is even published, and people won't/can't do that.

Again, I feel you're focusing on the details rather than the spirit of the idea.

[Phil]

Also, with the suggested upfront payments - this, too, has already happened. Subscriptions.
Exactly, and it's a tiny tiny percent of total sales because people won't do it.

[Phil]

Again, I feel you're focusing on the details rather than the spirit of the idea.
That's fair enough, but to be realistic I have to focus on the details; if all we were looking at was spirit then comics would be free and we'd all live in perfect harmony.
I agree with you that something needs to change though.

[Flightpath07]

Exactly, and it's a tiny tiny percent of total sales because people won't do it.


I agree with you that something needs to change though.

What about a Kickstarter-type of deal? Marvel asks, for instance, who would be in favour of purchasing a comic series, guaranteed to be 25 issues (monthly) with the same artists and writers (locked into contracts), called ______, and the writer would be _____, and the artists would be _____ and _____? All interested, sign up and pledge below. If we get enough people interested, we will make the comic, and you will be billed monthly for your issues and sent them as well. Once the project is a 'go', the issues will them also appear in your LCS in order to get more people buying/reading it, but those who signed up in advance will get their issues at a slight discount and have their first issue signed by those working on it.

Why wouldn't that work? it works in other media.

I'd go for it. If it interested me, for sure!

This isn't exactly rocket-science. Just look at what is working for other industries, and modify it to work for yours! I've never taken a business course in my life, but i can figure this out.

[Phil]

But I could say yes to it now and then get bored after 2 months and stop paying.
If everyone does the same then Marvel make a loss simply producing the comic.
You can't bill monthly in that way.

If it were through a kickstarter type site Marvel would owe them fees. If they cut that site out and organised and distributed it themselves it would cost them money.
To then use Diamond and distribute to LCS's as well as doing it internally would then cost them even more money.

To have a creator sign the issue would involve Marvel flying the comics from the printer to the creator to the distributor. Even more costs.

Print media generally is dying; it's not just comics. Subscriptions are down all over the place and e-media taking over.

[Flightpath07]

Phil, although i appreciate what it is you are saying...

...if everyone thought that way;

we'd have no light bulbs, no airplanes, no chemotherapy, no hospitals, no books, no schools, no vaccines, no churches, no democracy, no poetry, no art, we'd have nothing because everyone's dreams of doing something would be dashed apart by somebody else saying "no".

Fortunately, that isn't the world we live in. Dreamers dream, and then they make those dreams a reality.

In the end, Marvel will do,what Marvel decides to do. They may come up with similar ideas as we have here, or completely different ones. BUT, they will do SOMETHING, or eventually they will die an ugly death.

In the meantime, i will support comic companies (and other companies or artists)that dream big and make those dreams a reality and share them with others, as long as i agree with what they are doing and like their product. I support dreams, and i dream myself, because i support art, and am an artist.

[Phil]

You honestly cannot compare chemotherapy to comics, surely?

Comics are a non-essential luxury entertainment item.
Marvel are a private profit-making company; they exist solely to make a profit and as long as their product doesn't break trade description act laws they owe the public nothing else.
To even use comics in the same breath and discussion as chemotherapy shows that you clearly do not appreciate what I'm saying.

I too am an artist, and support art and dreams but I can't do that if I'm bankrupt and die of starvation. You cannot expect artists to work for free.
And I certainly can't produce comics if I've died of cancer....

[Phil]

My final comments on the matter; a very apt and timely attempt by Marvel:
http://marvel.com/news/story/19252/marvel_print_subscriptions

[Sypes]

I think the problem nowadays is that there are very very few artists than can do 12 issues a year.
And the only way a company could guarantee a 25 issue run is for people to pay for 25 issues up front, before the first issue is even published, and people won't/can't do that.

In general, I'd totally be game for something like this. If Alpĥa Flight V.4 had that option, I would have signed up. But I think I would only sign up after a certain number of issues (i.e. after the first 4 were published). That way, I would know by that time if I like or dislike the creative team behind it enough to support the rest of the serie. For example, totally would have signed up for AF v.4 (love the writing,
Dale!), but would never sign up for Astonishing X-Men (hate hate hate the drawing!, mistakes in JP's name, Sasquatch is suddenly not dumb at the party anymore...).

But I agree that a fee for the full serie would be required, and not monthly since people would cancel that once they get bored. At 3.99 per issue, 25 issues is more than acceptable to me.

[Le Messor]

My final comments on the matter; a very apt and timely attempt by Marvel:
http://marvel.com/news/story/19252/marvel_print_subscriptions

I love that Avengers Academy is on that list, though it's been cancelled!


In general, I'd totally be game for something like this. But I think I would only sign up after a certain number of issues (i.e. after the first 4 were published).

I agree with your 'after a certain number of issues' idea, especially.



If Alpha Flight V.4 had that option, I would have signed up.
I wouldn't.

- Le Messor
"In civilised life, where the happiness, and indeed almost the existence, of man depends so much upon the opinion of his fellow men, he is constantly acting a studied part."
~ Washington Irving

[Flightpath07]

You honestly cannot compare chemotherapy to comics, surely?

Comics are a non-essential luxury entertainment item.
Marvel are a private profit-making company; they exist solely to make a profit and as long as their product doesn't break trade description act laws they owe the public nothing else.
To even use comics in the same breath and discussion as chemotherapy shows that you clearly do not appreciate what I'm saying.

I too am an artist, and support art and dreams but I can't do that if I'm bankrupt and die of starvation. You cannot expect artists to work for free.
And I certainly can't produce comics if I've died of cancer....

I'm sorry...can anybody read what I wrote and see where i said "comics are like chemotherapy", because i clearly cannot find that!

Phil, let me break this down slowly and carefully, as you aren't getting what i am saying.

What i am telling you, is that people on this site (and elsewhere, surely) are coming up with new(ish) and innovative ways for Marvel (or the comics industry) to do things differently. It's a discussion of ideas. Nobody here is saying "Marvel has to" take any of these ideas and run with them. We are brainstorming, throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks, in order to spark more creative ideas on this subject.

Unfortunately, the point i was trying to make with my last post, was that you seem bound and determined to be negative about everything brought up as a new idea.

If you think Marvel doesn't need to change (which i don't think is what you are saying, but nevertheless), you or anybody else is totally cool to have that opinion.

What i DON'T like, is getting the feeling that any new idea is assigned a negative viewpoint automatically. You pointed out to me an awful lot of "no"s, most of them based around money.

But my point was, if everyone with a dream, every inventor, every artist, every scientist, if they all let negativity stop them from coming up with ideas; or with trying to implement the ideas, if they stopped because the monetary cost might be too much...I don't think i'd want to live in that world. We wouldn't have very much, and everybody would be depressed and dead inside.

I want people here to feel free to come up with whatever ideas they want, whether they are new or rehashed. That's my point. Every viewpoint is valid, every idea is treasured, because somebody came up with them and voiced them here. Discussion is what this site is all about, isn't it?

[Jason Eberly]

Blessed are the cheesemakers!

[Le Messor]

Clearly he's being metaphorical; he means any manufacturers of dairy products.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Admittedly, I don't understand the business reasons for publishing/continuing-to-publish a comic. I just know that comics that consistently tell interesting stories that have a pretty plausible beginning-middle-and-end usually do well. Whether this is what determines if a book sells well these days, I don't know.

All I do know is we've had Pseudo-Flight (volumes 2 & 3), Omega Flight (truncated before it could go where it is was going), and volume 4 (Heather-goes-beserk; Parliament Hill goes bye-bye).

Somebody has got to have a storyline that is at least as interesting.

[Phil]

With regards to Avengers Academy:-

X-23 will be in a Marvel NOW! book, which will probably be revealed in that next two to three week time period.

The future of the "Avengers Academy" characters will be announced in - you guessed it - the next one to two weeks.
http://geek-news.mtv.com/2012/09/09/baltimore-comic-con-2012-marvel-now-panel/


We challenged creators to use the post-"Avengers Vs. X-Men" landscape to shake up and reinvigorate titles like "X-Men: Legacy," "Deadpool," "Avengers Academy" and "Thunderbolts."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=40901

Expect an AA #1 January?

[Flightpath07]

There are also hints that there may be some sort of West Coast Avengers-type title.

Btw, I categorically deny and strongly disagree with the fact that Avengers Academy needed a shake-up. It was one of the few Marvel titles that pushed the envelope, and worked on both social issues and good character development.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Le Messor]

There are also hints that there may be some sort of West Coast Avengers-type title.

Omega Flight II?

- Le Messor
"In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."
~ Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

[Flightpath07]

- In "All-New X-Men", the original five X-Men are around for the foreseeable future. When a fan said they have to go back, Brevoort countered, “Do they?”

Dear Mr. Brevoort. Silly Mr. Brevoort. See AF Volume 3. If you peoples at Marvel change your minds, AGAIN, I'll be most unhappy, as i was one of those who wanted the past-Alphans to stick around.


- The future of the "Avengers Academy" characters will be announced in - you guessed it - the next one to two weeks.

That doesn't say there will be a new Avengers Academy book. I'd bet there won't be. Probably those characters will be spread around various Marvel books.