Marvel Universe To Be Completely Rebooted, DC Style? *RUMOUR*

[Phil]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/19/time-runs-out-the-marvel-event-for-may-2015-avengers-to-skip-eight-months-in-september-and-a-full-marvel-reboottime-runs-out-the-marvel-event-for-may-2015-avengers-to-skip-eight-months-in-septe

I've put it here rather than make an article so far, as it's just speculation, but what are people's thoughts?

[cmdrkoenig67]

Ugh....I hope it never happens (and there is really no need for it).

Dana

[Flightpath07]

I don't see a complete reboot as happening. As per usual with Marvel, they want you to think that all their "events" drastically change the status quo for all of their titles, forever; but they never actually do - it's all an advertising smokescreen to get you to buy more titles for a few months every year. If you believe anything that Marvel says, they'll sell you a bridge every month.

[rplass]

I am completely against it in every way without even clicking on the link. The whole point of the universe is continuity. Start an Ultimate Universe or something but keep the 616. Period.

[Flightpath07]

I'd be interested in a universe where Peter Parker got bitten by a radioactive chicken, where Mjolnir is a magical stapler, where Wolverine killed Hulk when they first battled, and where John Byrne never left Alpha Flight. Anything short of that, and I'll pass.

[Phil]

Yeah...

I think that if it happened I'd probably just use the opportunity to draw a line under my collection.

I'd possibly pick up an Alpha Flight title in digital form, but it just wouldn't be the same for me.

Unless of course it meant Byrne coming back to AF - then I'd be crusading for the reboot.

[Le Messor]

Hello, rug. *YANK!!!*


I think that if it happened I'd probably just use the opportunity to draw a line under my collection.

Funnily enough, I use Uncanny #544 in exactly that way - I have those 528 issues (as of my recent trip to the US), but I don't think I have a single one of the rebooted series.

Like Rob, I'm against it without even clicking on the link. DC managed to make two series that got my interest - out of 52.
It managed to make 0 that kept my interest.

If Marvel goes back to the 90s, too, too bad.
If it just reboots, without doing it that way - I'm not a fan of that, either. Also, isn't that what the Ultimate Universe was for?

~ Le Messor
"Monotheism is a gift from the gods."

[rplass]

Ah, kind of spoilery... has to do with Thanos Annual #1

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In today's Thanos Annual #1, there's a huge reference to all time stopping soon. The time frame Avatar Thanos gives is a few years. Sounds a hell of a lot like a re-boot scenario to me, or maybe it's just another one of Starlin's "Thanos does some existentially bad thing to the entire universe" "Then it gets un-done" things.

[Le Messor]

Ah, kind of spoilery... has to do with Thanos Annual #1

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In today's Thanos Annual #1, there's a huge reference to all time stopping soon. The time frame Avatar Thanos gives is a few years. Sounds a hell of a lot like a re-boot scenario to me, or maybe it's just another one of Starlin's "Thanos does some existentially bad thing to the entire universe" "Then it gets un-done" things.

Hope fades.

How much AWWWWWW MAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!! is there in the world?
Because I'm gonna need a lot of it for this.

[Phil]

I think that might be a lead in to Starlin's Thanos OGN.

[Le Messor]

Cool if that's all it is...
but the Nu52 started out as nothing more than a The Flash crossover.

~ Le Messor
"Most of the solutions (to unhappiness) had to do with the movement of small green pieces of paper. This is unusual, since on the whole it was not the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy."
~ Douglas Adams

[Phil]

http://marvel.com/news/comics/2014/5/30/22602/time_runs_out_for_the_avengers_in_september

[Le Messor]

Maybe what we'll end up with will be more like Age of Apocalypse than Flashpoint? A huge, status-quo-shaking event that puts the entire motley crew in dire straits, but ends up being reset later?

[Flightpath07]

Still not buying any Marvel.

[Tawmis]

So I stand alone. I think the Marvel Universe is such a convoluted $*cking mess - that it SERIOUSLY needs a reset button. There's X-Men, then alternate versions of them from every time line hanging out in 616. There's time displaced characters, stuck everywhere. People have died, come back, died, come back - a nice clean, reboot, back to a more fundamental story telling and art (such as The New 52).

I was never, ever, ever a fan of DC. But when they did the New 52, I understood it was a reboot - so I picked up just about every title. And now my DC pull list isn't just MORE than my Marvel pull list - it dominates it. I continue to drop more Marvel titles, to pick up more DC titles.

[Le Messor]

You're not alone in thinking it's too convoluted; but I just don't think a reboot is the answer.
And the Nu52 kept telling us 'it's a reboot, it's not a reboot, some of it is rebooted, some of it is unbooted, some of it is jack-booted'...

If Marvel does reset, I hope they're clearer than that.

~ Le Messor
"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."
~ Billy Wilder

[Flightpath07]

So I stand alone. I think the Marvel Universe is such a convoluted $*cking mess - that it SERIOUSLY needs a reset button. There's X-Men, then alternate versions of them from every time line hanging out in 616. There's time displaced characters, stuck everywhere. People have died, come back, died, come back - a nice clean, reboot, back to a more fundamental story telling and art (such as The New 52).

I was never, ever, ever a fan of DC. But when they did the New 52, I understood it was a reboot - so I picked up just about every title. And now my DC pull list isn't just MORE than my Marvel pull list - it dominates it. I continue to drop more Marvel titles, to pick up more DC titles.

No, you're not alone, not at all. I still have a few of DC's New 52 titles in my pull list, whereas i haven't had any from Marvel there in quite a while now.

It's not that I don't think Marvel NEEDS a reboot...I just don't BELIEVE Marvel, not ever. They've been (opinion: to me and my way of thinking) untrustworthy for far too long for me to believe anything they tell me, especially if making-a-buck is involved.

However, to be fair, i will mention this; DC's reboot was much needed, but it stifled a lot of artistic creativity by way of editors telling writers exactly what stories they could and could not write. The way i see it, Marvel doesn't need to do a reboot to achieve this, that is already the way they operate!

[Tawmis]

You're not alone in thinking it's too convoluted; but I just don't think a reboot is the answer.
And the Nu52 kept telling us 'it's a reboot, it's not a reboot, some of it is rebooted, some of it is unbooted, some of it is jack-booted'...
If Marvel does reset, I hope they're clearer than that.


Perhaps, because I barely collected any DC before the reboot (the only ones I collected were Teen Titans/Titans/New Teen Titans, whatever name that team was going by - for like 5 years before the reboot), Aquaman and Hawkman (and Outsiders too).

But I thought the reboot was done nicely. They put great, talented writers on books (for the most part), who STAYED on the books for a pretty good long haul. So there seemed to be a solid story structure. Their artists were great.

I could almost see Marvel (or Disney) wanting to reboot Marvel to a more classic Superhero feel (which I think the New 52 has), so that Disney can market it more towards kids. Because right now, it's crap. Almost all of it. Pure. Crap.



However, to be fair, i will mention this; DC's reboot was much needed, but it stifled a lot of artistic creativity by way of editors telling writers exactly what stories they could and could not write. The way i see it, Marvel doesn't need to do a reboot to achieve this, that is already the way they operate!

You know, if it helps lock down the books, so they feel tighter, then so be it. I think that's part of the problem with Marvel. They don't seem to give a flying $^#@* about the books. Just let the writers write whatever the ##@(* they want to write. And give them "named artists" - who, I'm sorry - I can draw better than, I feel, using stick figures.

[Flightpath07]

I can draw better than, I feel, using stick figures.

I'm pretty sure I want to see examples of this! :)

[Tawmis]

I'm pretty sure I want to see examples of this! :)

When I get home, I will see if I can whip something up. :)

[mrdann1205]

i wouldn't be surprised if they do....

especially with what the Illuminati is currently doing....

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*rebuilding the infinity gauntlet**


so if they are doing that.... i have a feeling they are are going to at least attempt it.

and i sure as hell hope they don't merge the heroes reborn or ultimate with it, i hated BOTH of those so much

[Le Messor]

and i sure as hell hope they don't merge the heroes reborn or ultimate with it, i hated BOTH of those so much

Me too, Mr Dann. Me too.

[Phil]

A bit more possible info... or not

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53324

[Le Messor]

While the 'two worlds collide' thang certainly lends itself to a reboot idea, nothing I read in that article screamed at me 'we're rebooting the universe!'. It all came across to me as a very clever marketing ploy. 'Here's a way to get a preview of a year and a half in advance; and if you read all our comics between then and now, you'll be caught up'.

Fiendishly cunning.

~ Le Messor
"Nothing puzzles me more than time and space; yet nothing troubles me less."
~ Charles Lamb

[Flightpath07]

Would be interesting to know what part Alpha plays in the events to come. If any.

I'm betting they will have a part. And, fingers crossed, perhaps a mini to explore how the changes affect them and Canada?

[Phil]

While the 'two worlds collide' thang certainly lends itself to a reboot idea, nothing I read in that article screamed at me 'we're rebooting the universe!'. It all came across to me as a very clever marketing ploy. 'Here's a way to get a preview of a year and a half in advance; and if you read all our comics between then and now, you'll be caught up'.

Fiendishly cunning.

Yeah, I'm intrigued. And glad it's not a reboot.

[Phil]

Would be interesting to know what part Alpha plays in the events to come. If any.

I'm betting they will have a part. And, fingers crossed, perhaps a mini to explore how the changes affect them and Canada?

You're more optimistic than I am!

I do however think that this is where Validator will turn up again.

[Flightpath07]

Hm.

Well, IF they are actually going to use this event to further restructure their teams, Validator leading (or part of) a new Alpha Flight (or Canadian Avengers) is a possibility.

Not saying I'd prefer that, just that it is a possibility.

If it were to happen, i'd be less miffed about it, if there were other aggravating (to their fans) insertions/deletions on other teams as well.

Or, perhaps they WILL mash two worlds together, thereby having an excuse to come out with a bunch of new heroes and villains in the Marvel playground? (And maybe get rid of some of the ones they do have floating around? - Hm...once again, i am wondering how "The Death of Wolverine" might play into this event...)

[Tawmis]

You're more optimistic than I am!

I do however think that this is where Validator will turn up again.

Vali-who?

[Flightpath07]

Vali-who?

http://alphaflight.net/showwiki/Omega_Flight_IV

[Flightpath07]

Yeah, I'm intrigued. And glad it's not a reboot.

Hm. One again, OTOH, here is what i am thinking; this may not be a reboot (and I doubt Marvel will EVER call it that, as then it looks like they are following DC's lead), BUT this is a way to "change the past" and by so doing the present also. For instance, after the event is over, we could have a world where; Mac died and stayed dead, Jean never became Phoenix and left Scott for Wolverine, Hulk is intelligent, Bucky died in WW2 and never became Winter Soldier, Nick Fury is black (oh, wait...), Gwen Stacey never died, Spidey married Black Cat, Captain America looks a lot like Johnny Storm (huh?), and the Avengers team more closely models after the one in the movies (Cap, Iron man, Hulk, Black Widow, Giant Man [Pym] and Wasp, for instance).

Now, this wouldn't be a "reboot" because nobody at Marvel will use the reboot term, but...it would be a complete, one fell swoop, game changer.

[Tawmis]

Hm. One again, OTOH, here is what i am thinking; this may not be a reboot (and I doubt Marvel will EVER call it that, as then it looks like they are following DC's lead), BUT this is a way to "change the past" and by so doing the present also. For instance, after the event is over, we could have a world where; Mac died and stayed dead, Jean never became Phoenix and left Scott for Wolverine, Hulk is intelligent, Bucky died in WW2 and never became Winter Soldier, Nick Fury is black (oh, wait...), Gwen Stacey never died, Spidey married Black Cat, Captain America looks a lot like Johnny Storm (huh?), and the Avengers team more closely models after the one in the movies (Cap, Iron man, Hulk, Black Widow, Giant Man [Pym] and Wasp, for instance).

Now, this wouldn't be a "reboot" because nobody at Marvel will use the reboot term, but...it would be a complete, one fell swoop, game changer.

I could actually see all of that happening - except the Winter Soldier thing. For reasons beyond me, he's become a cash cow for Marvel, even more so after the movie (which I admit was excellent...)

[TSOG]

While the 'two worlds collide' thang certainly lends itself to a reboot idea, nothing I read in that article screamed at me 'we're rebooting the universe!'. It all came across to me as a very clever marketing ploy. 'Here's a way to get a preview of a year and a half in advance; and if you read all our comics between then and now, you'll be caught up'.

Fiendishly cunning.

~ Le Messor
"Nothing puzzles me more than time and space; yet nothing troubles me less."
~ Charles Lamb


I recall Image doing something similar with Stormwatch years ago. They released issue 25 right after issue 12 (give or take) then spent the next year catching up as to why the team's membership was different. etc. Kind of neat, unless you decided to jump on at issue 20 then wondered why they went from 24 to 26 (I don't recall if 25 was released a second time, but I don't think so).

[mrdann1205]

see things is i HATE the new 52 with a passion, i hate how they totally destroyed one of my favorite supervillians (captain cold) with ice powers hell they even wrote it in saying that captain cold himself thought it was a mistake to give himself powers so if marvel did that i can really see them destroying alot of characters by being stupid like this. i mean they tried making everything new with the ultimate universe way back in 98 and i hate that more then the new 52. just keep 616 and leave it alone, we don't need another heroes reborn for 3 or 4 months and having them write it out since it was so bad.

[TSOG]

see things is i HATE the new 52 with a passion, i hate how they totally destroyed one of my favorite supervillians (captain cold) with ice powers hell they even wrote it in saying that captain cold himself thought it was a mistake to give himself powers so if marvel did that i can really see them destroying alot of characters by being stupid like this.

Hmmm...I don't know the character very well, and I haven't completely finished the story but I can tell you this; in Forever Evil, Cold is pretty damn cool (no pun intended), and he doesn't seem to have powers as such because he makes a "cold gun" from spare parts.

I have yet to read the stories specific to the Rogues so I don't know if that's a new thing or what. He may have lost his powers earlier on in Forever evil or in one of the many tie-ins, I don't recall.

Mind you, he's about to become a Justice League member, so maybe that ruins it anyway...

[Le Messor]

see things is i HATE the new 52 with a passion... i mean they tried making everything new with the ultimate universe way back in 98 and i hate that more then the new 52. just keep 616 and leave it alone,

That's one advantage Ultimate has over the Nu52 - as much as it's a much worse universe, at least it left 616 intact.
I was reading 2 DC titles before Nu52 wiped them out. Then, I read 2 different Nu52 titles... one got cancelled, the other got boring.

But, overall I agree - I liked the original and mainstream universes better than either new one.


we don't need another heroes reborn...

We don't need to know the way home...s reborn.

Haven't you got beyond Thunderdome?

~ Le Messor
"Anything that can become tangled around something else, will."
~ J.D. Boatwood

[Tawmis]

see things is i HATE the new 52 with a passion, i hate how they totally destroyed one of my favorite supervillians (captain cold) with ice powers hell they even wrote it in saying that captain cold himself thought it was a mistake to give himself powers so if marvel did that i can really see them destroying alot of characters by being stupid like this. i mean they tried making everything new with the ultimate universe way back in 98 and i hate that more then the new 52. just keep 616 and leave it alone, we don't need another heroes reborn for 3 or 4 months and having them write it out since it was so bad.

Well here's where we disagree. First, let me say I was not a huge DC fan. Let's get that out of the way right now. As a matter of fact, I actually hated many of the main characters in DC. Superman - what, he can only be beat by this super, extremely rare, alien rock pretty much? And magic? Which was almost non existant in the original DC Universe. And Batman - this dude just can't be beat. Ever. No matter what.

Regardless of that hatred, pre-New 52, I picked up Aquaman, Hawkman, Titans/New Teen Titans/Teen Titans (whatever name they were going by), and Outsiders. (I think that was it). Then they did the first "52" event - where they did a 52 issue, every week. (Pre New 52). They shuffled everything around. Hawkman, became Hawkgirl. Booster Gold was some major player. Titans and Outsiders got shuffled around, and Outsiders got cancelled. I was so beyond lost. I eventually dropped Hawkman and Outsiders, and kept with Aquaman and Teen Titans. Eventually, even those got so crazy, I had no idea what was happening, and dropped those titles.

Meanwhile, Marvel, which I had been collecting for over 30 years now, was growing increasingly worse, by the moment for me. My Uncanny X-Men was in shambles - with horrible writing, horrible characters, and horrible artists. Avengers? They were a joke, after the Disassembled story line.

I was, literally, on the verge of dropping all of my titles, and just picking up a comic if it looked interesting by the issue, not by the series.

Then DC said, "We're rebooting everything and doing this New 52 thing."

I said, "All right, let me check this out."

I picked up almost every #1 issue, save for a few. And not only was the writing, back to the classic, good, writing I remember from the late 70's and early 80's - but the art was crisp and clean, on all the titles. As this progressed, I found myself picking up more New 52 DC titles, and dropping more Marvel titles to be able to afford more DC titles. I found myself immensely enjoying Superman and all the Batman titles I got (Batman, Batman: Dark Knight, and Batman: Detective Comics). I picked up titles like International Justice League - which had no characters I recognized, except Guy Gardner (from Green Lanterns, even then I knew very little). And it had some odd ball characters - that reminded me of Alpha Flight or New Warriors. Sadly, it got cancelled. But I loved it none the less. I found myself picking up Wonder Woman, which I didn't do originally because the art, and loving it. I went back and collected all the issues of it, Catwoman, Birds of Prey (after Batgirl joined), I was picking up so many DC titles, and still do now - all the while dropping more Marvel.

If my future self had come back to me, 3 years ago and said, "One day, you will drop almost all of your Marvel titltes to collect DC - including Superman, Batman and Batgirl - and you will love it!" - I would have punched my future self, stomped on my chest and laughed. I would have NEVER believed it. But it's true - I collect something like 6 DC titles to 1 Marvel title now.

And you mention Captain Cold - as stated in this thread already - Forever Evil and the Rogue's Rebellion not only highlight Captain Cold, and the rest of the Rogues - but I was actually screaming for a new series featuring these guys! The writing in Rogue's Rebellion was nothing short of amazing and fun!

[Le Messor]

Future you can take on past you!

70s-80s writing? Really? That's cool. Everything I'd seen about it screamed 90s at me.

[Tawmis]

Future you can take on past you!
70s-80s writing? Really? That's cool. Everything I'd seen about it screamed 90s at me.

See the 90's were corny, for the most part (there was some good stuff, naturally - I believe the first Alpha Flight was still happening in the 90's, the New Warriors were in the 90's). But to me, it feels like 70's/80's - because it feels like it went back to its basic roots. There isn't a ton of unneeded angst. Heroes are heroes, villains are villains. I am sure, give it 10 years, it's going to be messy and convoluted - but for the most part, it's staying on track. Writers are on titles for a year or more, so there isn't weird hand offs. And even when there is, for example Birds of Prey, they have, for the most part felt so impossibly smooth that the only way to tell it's a different writer is by looking at the credits.

But again, one must take into account, I wasn't a huge DC fan. I have heard how a lot of characters have been "ruined" from their original concepts. So that may be why I am not biased as much as others.

But if Marvel could do a reboot like the New 52, I think I would be ready to embrace some of those changes.

[Le Messor]

See the 90's were corny, for the most part (there was some good stuff, naturally - I believe the first Alpha Flight was still happening in the 90's, the New Warriors were in the 90's).

While I'm not fan of the 90's, 'corny' is hardly the word I would use. But then, I'm only quibbling over semantics.
Actually, I just like to say 'quibble'.

Quibble quibble quibble quibble quibble quibble

You are also right that there were good things at the time - both titles you listed (though it wasn't best of AF's times, it wasn't the worst of times either), and Young Justice were all 90s, for example. And Supergirl at the time. And Teen Titans (for a little while, then they got bad) and Deathstroke... In fact, I've said before that in the 90s Marvel managed to do what DC and even I hadn't managed before - to turn me to DC.


But to me, it feels like 70's/80's - because it feels like it went back to its basic roots. There isn't a ton of unneeded angst. Heroes are heroes, villains are villains.

Not too much angst is cool.
"Heroes are heroes"... I didn't read much of the Nu52. I've mentioned collecting two titles: JLI (which you've talked about; it was okay, but never one I was in love with) and Green Arrow (which opened with an Alpha Flight reference, and then kept me reading until it got boring with a change of writer).
BUT, I was also lent the first five issues each of Superboy, Supergirl, and Teen Titans.
In those fifteen issues, they spent a lot of time talking about heroism, and how they were heroes and anybody they didn't like wasn't.

In those fifteen issues, they tried to save people from anything precisely twice. They succeeded precisely once. Mostly, what they fought was each other. They spent most of their time destroying people's property and livelihoods for their own internal squabbling, while yelling about being heroes.

Yeah...
(The Supergirl issues set up for her to save the world next issue, and apparently she did, but too little too late.)


Writers are on titles for a year or more, so there isn't weird hand offs.

That's a good thing... but it's not what I heard.


And even when there is, for example Birds of Prey, they have, for the most part felt so impossibly smooth that the only way to tell it's a different writer is by looking at the credits.

Specifically about BoP, especially; that the change of creative crew was disruptive and annoying to the readership, and brought with it a change of cast that nobody liked. All due to a unilateral and apparently arbitrary editorial mandate.
Either that, or I like using big words.
(Can't it be both?)


But if Marvel could do a reboot like the New 52, I think I would be ready to embrace some of those changes.

Embrace some of the changes? They'd have to screw up royally if no good came out of a reboot. I'd expect there to be some good things, things I'd embrace, to come out of it.
Overall, though, I doubt I'd be for it. I've invested a lot of time and emotion (and money, buying their comics) in a particular set of characters, getting to know them, learning the interweavings and connectedness. To have it all thrown away on a whim would be a slap in the face.

OTOH, the main reason I never got into DC was that they had too much history. There weren't any titles I could start collecting and expect to get the whole run. So that's kinda hypocritical.

~ Le Messor
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
~ Andrew Lang

[Phil]

Actually, I just like to say 'quibble'.

Quibble quibble quibble quibble quibble quibble

The trouble with quibbles...

[Tawmis]

Not too much angst is cool.
"Heroes are heroes"... I didn't read much of the Nu52. I've mentioned collecting two titles: JLI (which you've talked about; it was okay, but never one I was in love with) and Green Arrow (which opened with an Alpha Flight reference, and then kept me reading until it got boring with a change of writer).


My problem with Green Arrow, which I still (for some reason, still collect) is the art. I have found the art to never be on par with the story. And it seems to have gotten progressively worse.

That's a good thing... but it's not what I heard.
Specifically about BoP, especially; that the change of creative crew was disruptive and annoying to the readership, and brought with it a change of cast that nobody liked. All due to a unilateral and apparently arbitrary editorial mandate.
Either that, or I like using big words.
(Can't it be both?)
[/quote]

They got rid of one of the characters - but I believe that was the previous writer. And they brought in Condor and Batgirl. Other than that, I felt like the story has progressed smoothly. If I hadn't known that Christy Marx (who I love as a writer) was getting Birds of Prey, I don't think I would have noticed a hand off.



Embrace some of the changes? They'd have to screw up royally if no good came out of a reboot. I'd expect there to be some good things, things I'd embrace, to come out of it.


There is no doubt that a potential for nothing good coming of it is possible - Heroes Reborn, for me, is an example of that.



Overall, though, I doubt I'd be for it. I've invested a lot of time and emotion (and money, buying their comics) in a particular set of characters, getting to know them, learning the interweavings and connectedness. To have it all thrown away on a whim would be a slap in the face.


See, I feel like that I am ALREADY being slapped in the face. Repeatedly. The X-Men are nothing like the X-Men I remember and love. There's so many characters, I can't even remember who is who. And now there's Wolverine's school, with all these odd ball mutants, including a young Brood mutant? What? The Avengers are fractured into like 10 different teams, none of them representing the honor that really being an Avengers team embraces. Alpha Flight, well we all know how that is. Defenders, did you read Fraction's take? Shoot me now. The only good so far is the New Warriors and Amazing X-Men, both written by Yost. Other things have suffered - and when they had something great (Dan Abbnet & Andy Landing on ANYTHING was gold!), they do away with it eventually...

[Le Messor]

The trouble with quibbles...

LOL!!!


My problem with Green Arrow, which I still (for some reason, still collect) is the art...

I never liked the art side of it either.



Specifically about BoP, especially; that the change of creative crew was disruptive and annoying to the readership...
They got rid of one of the characters - but I believe that was the previous writer.

The story I kept hearing at the time was that it was the editors, who wanted the character for JLA, and nobody liked the idea. Except said editor.


There is no doubt that a potential for nothing good coming of it is possible - Heroes Reborn, for me, is an example of that.

Oh, I believe there could be a nothing-good reboot; but they're the exception. There's often something good.
That said, I believe you about Heroes Reborn. Nothing about it even caught my interest enough to read any of it, and you never hear about it anymore - except, perhaps, to compare with this Fantastic Four idea.
(I have read some issues of Heroes Return, and some of them were okay (none were GREAT).)


The X-Men are nothing like the X-Men I remember and love. There's so many characters, I can't even remember who is who.

Agreed. I keep collecting their serieses, reluctantly, because they're often the only thing that brings back the magic that got me into comics in the first place - which is soooo hard to find nowadays, especially from the Big Two - but I do often feel like I'm enjoying stories about a stadium full of strangers.
Yes, including a young Brood. Don't like the idea, but the character is actually pretty cool.


Defenders, did you read Fraction's take? Shoot me now.

I did not. But expect a glowing red dot to appear on your forehead any minute now...


The only good so far is the New Warriors and Amazing X-Men...

I've been enjoying both (but see above for my reaction to reading X-Men).
I got bored halfway through Dan Abnett's Nova and quit. Sorry.

~ Le Messor
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend, if you have one."
~ George Bernard Shaw to Winston Churchill
"Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second... if there is one."
~ Winston Churchill, in response.

[Tawmis]

I recall Image doing something similar with Stormwatch years ago. They released issue 25 right after issue 12 (give or take) then spent the next year catching up as to why the team's membership was different. etc. Kind of neat, unless you decided to jump on at issue 20 then wondered why they went from 24 to 26 (I don't recall if 25 was released a second time, but I don't think so).

A few of the image books did this. Stormwatch, Brigade, Bloodstrike, and some others - it was called something like "Days Of Tomorrow" or something, where they all jumped to issue 25, where everything was completely shaken up. And then spent from 12 to 25, trying to explain why things were in that state. Some, ironically, never even made it to issue 25, before it was cancelled. I disliked it, because it took one of the books I enjoyed reading (Bloodstrike) for absolutely brainless fun (not a lot of story in it), and broke the team up and made it so it was one guy in a mask, who was Bloodstrike.

[Tawmis]

The story I kept hearing at the time was that it was the editors, who wanted the character for JLA, and nobody liked the idea. Except said editor.


That may be the reason the series was made, and then cancelled within 12 issues. I enjoyed reading JLA. It wasn't a tight story - it felt like Defenders to me - a bunch of character, not too connected, who were just there to help out from time to time.



RE: X-MEN
Agreed. I keep collecting their serieses, reluctantly, because they're often the only thing that brings back the magic that got me into comics in the first place - which is soooo hard to find nowadays, especially from the Big Two - but I do often feel like I'm enjoying stories about a stadium full of strangers. Yes, including a young Brood. Don't like the idea, but the character is actually pretty cool.


Heh, see I love the Brood as ruthless, evil, villains - Uncanny X-Men #162-166 is some of my favorite space stuff with the X-Men, which features the brood and how ruthless they are. (Also happens to be the best drawings of the Brood, other than Uncanny X-Men #155). So a "nice" Brood just ... bothers me. And that it has glasses too? And sort of resembles a humanoid form, rather than the Brood form? All things I dislike about said mutant Brood. :)



I got bored halfway through Dan Abnett's Nova and quit. Sorry.


I think my heart just stopped...!

[Le Messor]

Heh, see I love the Brood as ruthless, evil, villains - Uncanny X-Men #162-166 is some of my favorite space stuff with the X-Men, which features the brood and how ruthless they are. (Also happens to be the best drawings of the Brood, other than Uncanny X-Men #155). So a "nice" Brood just ... bothers me. And that it has glasses too? And sort of resembles a humanoid form, rather than the Brood form? All things I dislike about said mutant Brood. :)

Oh, yeah, fully agree. I'm just surprised to find I like Broo; I still think he shouldn't exist, because the idea suxxors for all the reasons you just said, but I actually like the character himself.
'cept when he turns into actual Brood and goes on rampages. I don't like him then.

But I don't like Marrina when she does that, either.

~ Le Messor
"His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork."
~ Mae West

[Tawmis]

Oh, yeah, fully agree. I'm just surprised to find I like Broo; I still think he shouldn't exist, because the idea suxxors for all the reasons you just said, but I actually like the character himself.
'cept when he turns into actual Brood and goes on rampages. I don't like him then.
But I don't like Marrina when she does that, either.


Oh, so he has this other side to him? That would at least bring it CLOSER to what I expected out of Brood. For Marrina, it's not that I enjoy when she goes crazy - but considering the Plodex mentality - I get it. (The only real reason I don't like it, is because there's little character development of someone who's rampaging, which is exactly why I have never been into Hulk!)

As irony would have it, however, I love Sabretooth, for the sheer fact he's so animalistic and ruthless...

[Le Messor]

I myself am often surprised at tastes' little quirks.

Broo went crazy once because of brain damage; it isn't a side to him, I'm afraid.

~ Le Messor
"I've just learned about his illness. Let's hope it's nothing trivial."
~ Irvin S. Cobb

[cmdrkoenig67]

Cool if that's all it is...
but the Nu52 started out as nothing more than a The Flash crossover.

~ Le Messor


I'm sick to death of DC's reboots (which the latest one can't even keep it's new continuity straight)...Ugh.

Dana

[Tawmis]

I'm sick to death of DC's reboots (which the latest one can't even keep it's new continuity straight)...Ugh.

Dana

Such as? (I am curious because I feel like I collect 90% of the New 52, and not sure what is broken?)

[Flightpath07]

Such as? (I am curious because I feel like I collect 90% of the New 52, and not sure what is broken?)

I was going to ask the same thing, as I haven't heard much continuity complaints from DC fans (once they got over the reboot itself).

[cmdrkoenig67]

I know the Robins' continuity was messed up: Tim Drake being referred to as a former Robin, yet he supposedly was always Red Robin and "never a Robin". The original Teen Titans were referred to in "Red Hood and The Outlaws", yet they supposedly never existed.

Dana

[Tawmis]

I know the Robins' continuity was messed up: Tim Drake being referred to as a former Robin, yet he supposedly was always Red Robin and "never a Robin". The original Teen Titans were referred to in "Red Hood and The Outlaws", yet they supposedly never existed.

Dana

You are correct about the Tim Drake thing. I am pretty sure you're accurate there. I don't recall about the Teen Titans, however?

[Flightpath07]

I know the Robins' continuity was messed up: Tim Drake being referred to as a former Robin, yet he supposedly was always Red Robin and "never a Robin". The original Teen Titans were referred to in "Red Hood and The Outlaws", yet they supposedly never existed.

Dana

I have all the Red Hood books, and don't recall that. However, you could be right; i'm too lazy to pull out all my books and re-read them to check.

[Le Messor]

You are correct about the Tim Drake thing. I am pretty sure you're accurate there. I don't recall about the Teen Titans, however?

This isn't the first time I've heard it mentioned.

~ Le Messor
"If a cluttered is an indication of a cluttered mind, what is indicated by an empty desk?"
~ Anonymous

[Phil]

The FCBD for May revealing the post-Secret Wars team makes it look like it won't be a complete reboot:
http://www.newsarama.com/23904-another-two-all-new-all-different-avengers-revealed.html

[Le Messor]

Nova, eh?

I can go for that. Hope it's the one I'm reading, but I can go another one.

[Phil]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-03/26/marvel-post-secret-wars

[Le Messor]

I've just realised that the 'All-New, All-Different' are deliberately 'All-New yet somehow familiar'. :)

I'm considering picking it up, but this line:

So throw out your preconceptions about Earth's Mightiest Heroes as we change the game, rewrite the rules and destroy childhoods with an Avengers team that more closely reflects the world outside your window!
is one of those that's meant to make me want to read it, but has the exact opposite effect.

'Rewrite the rules' and everything before it usually means 'give you something completely alien to what you've read before, demand you love it just as much because it has the same name,' 'destroy childhoods'... 'nuff said, and 'world outside your window' means 'New York City' (where I've never even been, let alone had a window in). (Here, though, given the characters I'm looking at, it might mean diversifying the cast.)

Still, I like Nova and Mark Waid can be a great writer.

~ Le Messor
'Are you sure we haven't met?'
Batman: "I have one of those faces."