Civil War: The Initiative- (SPOILERS!!) Alpha Flight related

I think the big thing is that, as most of you point out, an American wearing the flag suit. If it were Steve Rogers in the suit we'd still be miffed, but it's worse when it's aguy who was "used" to murder hundreds of people, many Canadians, is given the honour and distinction of wearing the flag suit for no good reason.

He has not shown any 'hero' ability, any desire to be a hero, no desire to protect Canada or anyone else, just remorse over what he was engaged in. He has no ties to heroism, brains, fighting ability, Canada, or the team. He is a guy with powers that allow him to be manipulated, so he gets a flag suit designed to help him use his powers, I guess to prevent his lack of usefulness from killing more people, so that he can be a hero.

Does he want to be a hero? Join OF? Become Canadian? Is he Canadian? Mike Oeming may have something up his sleeve to exaplin why this weak-willed accomplice murderer gets a free pass and gets trusted to join a foreign country's team and figure out what he can do not to kill anyone else, let alone save anyone.

His power is mutant energy absorption. Oeming will be sure to retconn that so that he can absorb other energy forms and actually use the energy. Likely that is what Richard's suit is for, to prevent Mailman from killing people by accident anymore and to actually have a way to use the energy he sucks in

So for me the character needs one or two things: a reason to actually be in OF as opposed to Great Lakes Avengers, and/or a name not tied to Guardian, Vindicator, or Weapon Alpha. Maybe he'll be Weapon Omega II.

It's clearly up to Mike Oeming to make this character more than the cypher he is now. After issue #2 we'll either know Mailman is a worthy Canadian, or an embarrassment.

I'll say this much.

He'll make a handy casualty for the next off-panel throwaway massacre.... :roll:

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Originally Posted by Mokole

So for me the character needs one or two things: a reason to actually be in OF as opposed to Great Lakes Avengers, and/or a name not tied to Guardian, Vindicator, or Weapon Alpha. Maybe he'll be Weapon Omega II.

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Weapon Penance? :D

I sitll have to say the remorse idea works.. it worked with Spider man, and it can work with mailman mik,e we know he won't lead the team but he'll go and try and do the best for the team he can, if we go into it thiniuing "man this book will suck" then it will, but if we go in with optimism then we might be suprised

You know what would have worked better though? The idea of Lou Sadler Jr. becoming a three dimensional character after seeing those around him killed. That would have been such an interesting storyline... I would have rather seen a mini with Lou than an ongoing with Mike. Well, at current projections anyway. And with Oeming as the writer for both series.

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So for me the character needs one or two things: a reason to actually be in OF as opposed to Great Lakes Avengers, and/or a name not tied to Guardian, Vindicator, or Weapon Alpha. Maybe he'll be Weapon Omega II.

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I agree on the name thing. And I suspect that he will eventually be called Weapon Omega (hence the team name Omega Flight) - but I really hope that it does not end up so. I mean, come on, how much abuse can this WildChild fan take! First, my totally plausible idea that it is Kyle Gibney in the suit is shot down, and then to think that i may turn around and find that this Alpha-Killer (hey :idea: ! That'd be a cool name, wouldn't it? :twisted: ) guy steals Kyle's code-name too! Aargh! That would double-suck!

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Originally Posted by SmurfInABlender

I sitll have to say the remorse idea works.. it worked with Spider man, and it can work with mailman mik,e we know he won't lead the team but he'll go and try and do the best for the team he can, if we go into it thiniuing "man this book will suck" then it will, but if we go in with optimism then we might be suprised

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Okay...We get it. Smurf, this isn't just you (please don't take it personally...Others are doing too)...But do we have to hear this everytime somebody voices their opinion or has a problem with some aspect of the book? Why can't we discuss the upcoming series (our likes and dislikes), without being constantly asked to stay positive?

I don't know that the book is going to suck...None of us do (aside from Marvel editorial), I haven't read it yet, you haven't read it yet...I don't really see anyone actually saying that's it's going to suck. Sure...People may have issues with certain aspects of the series that have been revealed and those people are not wrong in their feelings, they just don't feel the same as some. There is no need for us who may not feel exactly the way others do, to be chastised for it or "coerced" into being positve.

Most of us (including myself) are hoping for the best with this book, even with the strikes (whether they be rumored, imagined or actual) against it. I'm really hoping that the series will create interest in classic Alpha Flight for new fans and revive interest in older fans who've left AF behind...Maybe even help bring classic Alpha back, somehow...How's that for being positive? Can people please stop trying to be Omega Flight cheerleaders and positivity coaches...It's getting as tiresome as any negativity.

Dana

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Originally Posted by Phil

I take positive from the fact that the title isn't "Alpha Flight" which shows that possibly...
I take solice in that Sas is still alive as he is arguably my favourite character and while this title may not be AF some of the spirit of that team and title can possibly live on through him.

I see OF less as a fourth volume or a spin off, but more as AF characters being used in another title, similar to Northstar in X-Men etc, and will be personally judging the story on a similar scale.
If the story is well written and there's no disrespect to AF all in all, I'll be happy.

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Considering USAgent and Arachne's former ties, and Beta Ray Bill's ties to Thor, I think I would have preferred that this book be called Avengers North. The title may have more marketing value also, considering how big the Avengers franchise is right now.

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Originally Posted by Mokole

His power is mutant energy absorption. Oeming will be sure to retconn that so that he can absorb other energy forms and actually use the energy. Likely that is what Richard's suit is for, to prevent Mailman from killing people by accident anymore and to actually have a way to use the energy he sucks in

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And his absorbption could be the key to resuurecting those who fell in battle against him.
If Sasquatch is not necessarily staying with the team, could Mailman still be leaching Sasquatch's powers/strength due to some connection forged during the battle?

The problem with Mailman killing Alpha to me is one of continuity. If Sasquatch had been the sole survivor of a massacre of the Volume 3 team, I think most of us would be relieved that the distasteful "era" was permanently over. Why bring back four of the originals from space to slaughter them? If they had been left in space and the V3 team had been slaughtered, Canada would still be without a team post Civil War. All of which just makes the deaths more gratuitous and wholley unnecessary.

Forgive me if this has been addressed prior but I have a question: In CW: The Initiative, Sasquatch says that all of Alpha Flight (or at least those members that fought the collective) are dead. Is that correct? Doesn't Puck show up in an upcoming issue of X-men Unlimited, wherein he is seen trying to drink the memories of his fallen comrades away?

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

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Originally Posted by SmurfInABlender

I sitll have to say the remorse idea works.. it worked with Spider man, and it can work with mailman mik,e we know he won't lead the team but he'll go and try and do the best for the team he can, if we go into it thiniuing "man this book will suck" then it will, but if we go in with optimism then we might be suprised

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Okay...We get it. Smurf, this isn't just you (please don't take it personally...Others are doing too)...But do we have to hear this everytime somebody voices their opinion or has a problem with some aspect of the book? Why can't we discuss the upcoming series (our likes and dislikes), without being constantly asked to stay positive?

I don't know that the book is going to suck...None of us do (aside from Marvel editorial), I haven't read it yet, you haven't read it yet...I don't really see anyone actually saying that's it's going to suck. Sure...People may have issues with certain aspects of the series that have been revealed and those people are not wrong in their feelings, they just don't feel the same as some. There is no need for us who may not feel exactly the way others do, to be chastised for it or "coerced" into being positve.

Most of us (including myself) are hoping for the best with this book, even with the strikes (whether they be rumored, imagined or actual) against it. I'm really hoping that the series will create interest in classic Alpha Flight for new fans and revive interest in older fans who've left AF behind...Maybe even help bring classic Alpha back, somehow...How's that for being positive? Can people please stop trying to be Omega Flight cheerleaders and positivity coaches...It's getting as tiresome as any negativity.

Dana

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And I would liek to voice my opinion too... no one has come out and said "this book is goign to suck" but all I hear is "This was a dumb idea!" "This is the worst idea in marvel history" I mean it is obviously implied, I'm simply boiving my own opinion and saying i'm tryign to be positive.. I never said any of you were whining... I'm just trying to point out things that maybe people havn't looked at yet.

I appologize for not jumping on the "i hate marvel" Bandwagon

-Jonathan

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Originally Posted by Phil

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Originally Posted by Flightpath07

What is the point in killing Alpha Flight? What is the point?

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Cheap shock tactics using a set of characters with 2 failed volumes in recent years that weren't currently being used to try and make THE COLLECTIVE look an actual threat.

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Sorry Phil, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this. The characters who were killed, were primarily from a failed title from 15-20 years ago. And many of them weren't seen in the later issues of that title when it finally did fail. Which gets us back to Dana's sentiment. Alpha Flight was alsways a success. Once they started mucking around with the family feel and giving us characters we didn't recognize as Alpha, that's when the series all failed. Other than those characters in the first 30 or so issues of V1, there are only 2 others I ever really considered part of the team, Talisman and Persuasion. Anything that came after seemed very insignificant to the team. I'm sure all the Windshear, Flex, and Yukon Jack fans would disagree, but that's just one old timers opinion.

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Originally Posted by Legerd

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Originally Posted by Phil

Again, to me they're just fictional stories and as long as there aren't slurs or stereotypes, it wouldn't bother me if an American or anyone else was in the Captain Britian uniform.

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That's the point, it is considered a slur to have an American wearing the Canadian flag in this case. As a European you may not get the resentment Canadians feel when other nations consider us watered down Americans. It's annoying to know that no matter what things your nation accomplishes, it's always considered a second class version of the US. So when real life writers and editors okay a story that shows an American wearing the uniform (designed after the nation's flag) of a Canadian hero who represented his country, it seems the folks at Marvel think any old American can substitute for a Canadian hero. A real life attitude appearing in a fictional story.
That may not be the intention, but that's how it's coming across.

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Legerd, I can see that arguement going both ways. I could see Oeming using this as an opportunity to show the outrage the Canadian people would show towards such an idea. I could see him showing disdain for Mailman Mike by the Canadian people and perhaps an old fashioned witch hunt when the find out he killed their Alpha Flight. I'm not expecting it, but it could happen. I'm still with you on this. I think it is a slap in the face of Canadians and AF fans in general, but it could be used as a very strong plot device to get into the psyche of the Canadian people.

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Originally Posted by Corvus

Maybe that might illustrate a bit to you why Canadians find an American being put into a Canadian Flag based costume objectional. Canadian's live right next door to a huge power that overshadows our culture much of the time, and one that takes Canada for granted for the most part, being largely ignorant of our value to them. There's a long history of America ignoring Canada's contributions and taking us for granted. The most infamous example would be the aftermath of 9/11. Most air traffic headed for the US was diverted to Canada after the attacks, and Canada took care of thousands of Americans. And thats just one example.

When the American president was thanking the various countries that helped out not long after 9/11, Canada wasn't even mentioned. And thats just one of many examples of Canada being ignored, belittled or taken for granted by America.

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Just because the President didn't acknowledge it doesn't mean the American people don't. Canada's aid post 9/11 was all over the media here. For me that day alone showed more fratenity between our countries than perhaps any other event in our histories. I'm proud to have a neighbor so willing to aid when we need it (which unfortunately seems to be often). Don't ever get the impression that Americans don't appreciate Canadians. Sure we'll poke fun at you, just as I'd assume you do us. Neighbors, friends, and siblings do that. As a whole we don't understand each other. We take each other for granted sometimes. It's human nature I think. That doesn't mean your efforts aren't recognized and appreciated though. Now that White House incident a long time ago and stealing the World Series for 2 years we may need to talk about, but other than that I think we love you like a brother, disfunctional a family as we may be.

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Originally Posted by SmurfInABlender

I appologize for not jumping on the "i hate marvel" Bandwagon

-Jonathan

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This isn't about hating Marvel, or saying OF is going to suck or even about Mike the postman being on the team. This is about Mike wearing Guardian's uniform. Personally, I hope OF does great, and I have no ill will for Mike O, I just think it was wrong to put Mike in the suit. Put him in another suit and stick him on the team, that would be fine.

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Originally Posted by Barnacle13

Legerd, I can see that arguement going both ways. I could see Oeming using this as an opportunity to show the outrage the Canadian people would show towards such an idea. I could see him showing disdain for Mailman Mike by the Canadian people and perhaps an old fashioned witch hunt when the find out he killed their Alpha Flight. I'm not expecting it, but it could happen. I'm still with you on this. I think it is a slap in the face of Canadians and AF fans in general, but it could be used as a very strong plot device to get into the psyche of the Canadian people.

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It may very well be. I'm not condemning the title on this point, in fact I'll pick it up for as long as it runs, but this will be a sore spot for me.