Crackity Jones' Discovery Of Alpha Flight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

If you're right, I'm wrong - but Phil's talk makes more sense.

'cept the guy you mean wasn't really in Nicieza's run, was he? Hmm...
... don't think he was.

Le Messor!
You did not leave a quote!!!!
WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Read #'s 55, 56, and 57. Moving onto #58 here shortly. Might not meet my goal of 5 issues tonight, but I'll read at least 4.

And!!!
I really like Goblyn.
Heather is back to being an ass.
I hope the rest of AF-whatevers keep her away from Goblyn.
Grrrr.

The art improved, like, WHOA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

If you're right, I'm wrong - but Phil's talk makes more sense.
'cept the guy you mean wasn't really in Nicieza's run, was he? Hmm...
... don't think he was.

Perhaps not. I am trying to pile it through my head, without digging up the issues, as to thinking what characters drastically changed. And the one I thought went through a pretty serious change.

I mean, other than the Resurrection Man himself...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I am wondering if Mantlo's run is hitting me so hard because I am reading at least an issue about every day to every other day vs. reading it only once a month like when it was printed?

That's entirely possible.

I made mention of it somewhere (damn too many Alpha Flight threads) - maybe on CBR, about when I initially read it? I thought it was here. I can't even remember now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Read #'s 55, 56, and 57. Moving onto #58 here shortly. Might not meet my goal of 5 issues tonight, but I'll read at least 4.
And!!!
I really like Goblyn.

Cool. :) I am glad you do. I actually enjoyed the concept of the character, and to me she set up the template for what would eventually be Penance of Generation X.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

The art improved, like, WHOA.

Who is the artist currently where you're at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Le Messor!
You did not leave a quote!!!!
WHAT IS HAPPENING?

... Sometimes I get lazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

The art improved, like, WHOA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Who is the artist currently where you're at?

That would be Jim Lee's first art for Marvel.
(It starts around the mid-50s.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Perhaps not. I am trying to pile it through my head, without digging up the issues, as to thinking what characters drastically changed. And the one I thought went through a pretty serious change.
I mean, other than

... but your Other Than is who I think it is. And this is getting dangerously close to spoiler territory.

~ Le Messor
"Every story has three sides to it - yours, mine, and the facts."
~ Foster Russell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I don't have a problem with Goblyn. I actually like Goblyn. One of the only characters that Mantlo has created so far, in this series, that I think actually has potential.

It's Purple Girl I take issue with.
Or, I mean, how she's written.

If it helps (and it won't; sorry!), Purple Girl is fairly awesome in Volume 4...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

If you're right, I'm wrong - but Phil's talk makes more sense.

'cept the guy you mean wasn't really in Nicieza's run, was he? Hmm...
... don't think he was.

Not all of my assumptions are meant for consumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

That's entirely possible.

I made mention of it somewhere (damn too many Alpha Flight threads) - maybe on CBR, about when I initially read it? I thought it was here. I can't even remember now...

I think I read that you read it all as it came out. At least Mantlo's run?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Cool. :) I am glad you do. I actually enjoyed the concept of the character, and to me she set up the template for what would eventually be Penance of Generation X.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get along with Gobyln.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

... Sometimes I get lazy.

You're allowed one mistake. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

That would be Jim Lee's first art for Marvel.
(It starts around the mid-50s.)

Yes, it has now consistently been Jim Lee for a few issues.
He had done one issue in either the late 40's, early 50's (was it 50? 51?), and then went away, and is now back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flightpath07

If it helps (and it won't; sorry!), Purple Girl is fairly awesome in Volume 4...

"Awesome" and "Purple Girl" don't even belong in the same sentence. EVER.
I never thought I could ever dislike a character more than Amanda Sefton. But Purple Girl wins that spot.
I don't care how well Jim Lee draws her.
She's a sh*t character. And always will be. My mind is closed on this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flightpath07

Not all of my assumptions are meant for consumption.

awwww. You're the best, FP07. <3

I never did read #58 last night as there was a work crisis that I had to attend to. AND I cut my finger during the work crisis.:(
I am always unintentionally injuring myself whiling working.

Did Mantlo create Dream Queen? I would assume so since her first appearance is AF #56?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

I think I just had a WILD idea who you mean...

Nup, that was Lobdell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

I mean, other than the Resurrection Man himself...

Ding, ding, ding!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flightpath07

Not all of my assumptions are meant for consumption.

You've got a lot of gumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

You're allowed one mistake. :P

And I used it up on that?!? I could be in trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Yes, it has now consistently been Jim Lee for a few issues.
He had done one issue in either the late 40's, early 50's (was it 50? 51?), and then went away, and is now back.

As far as I can tell, he did #53, skipped #54, then started regular pencils with #55.
This is based on checking the covers and not the interior art, which is highly deceptive.

Also, Jim Lee is high up on my list of people who can actually draw Sasquatch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

"Awesome" and "Purple Girl" don't even belong in the same sentence. EVER.

Hmm... The irony is, that sentence has both those words in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I never thought I could ever dislike a character more than Amanda Sefton.

Her? Really?
Just seems a fairly random choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I never did read #58 last night as there was a work crisis that I had to attend to. AND I cut my finger during the work crisis.:(
I am always unintentionally injuring myself whiling working.

Sorry to hear that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Did Mantlo create Dream Queen? I would assume so since her first appearance is AF #56?

Yes. This character you keep hearing about as a Good Thing is from Mantlo.
OTOH, he wrote the minority of her appearances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Ding, ding, ding!

As I thought!

~ Le Messor
Vizzini: "No more rhymes now, I mean it!"
Fezzik: "Anybody want a peanut?"
~ The Princess Bride

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

And I used it up on that?!? I could be in trouble.

It's quite possible, but we'll see how well you actually do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

As far as I can tell, he did #53, skipped #54, then started regular pencils with #55.
This is based on checking the covers and not the interior art, which is highly deceptive.

Also, Jim Lee is high up on my list of people who can actually draw Sasquatch.

He does well with Sasquatch, yes, I noticed that actually as I was reading it and saw the panels of him out in the snow, right before he came across The Great Beasts (what was that, like, the third time they had encountered the Great Beasts? Sheesh.), there was a close up face shot, and yeah. It was nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Hmm... The irony is, that sentence has both those words in it.

My pre-coffee irony is the best ever.
But, really, that was the last time those two things will be used in the same sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Her? Really?
Just seems a fairly random choice.

Purple Girl?
Or Amanda Sefton? Purple Girl is not random, and if you think so, then you haven't been reading my rants here about her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Sorry to hear that.

Thanks. It's been annoying me today. I cannot wear a band-aid of any kind on it because I use my thumb too much, and I use leather conditioner which will just muck it all up anyway. Pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Yes. This character you keep hearing about as a Good Thing is from Mantlo.
OTOH, he wrote the minority of her appearances.

I take it that you don't think she's a good thing? And if that is the case, it's probably just meant as a good thing that came from Mantlo during his run on AF. Which, you know as well as I do, we have to make the little things count as good things (why do I have this odd feeling that you're going to find a signature quote that has something to do with that last sentence now?).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Or Amanda Sefton? Purple Girl is not random, and if you think so, then you haven't been reading my rants here about her.

Amanda Sefton. I HAVE been reading your purple prose rants!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I take it that you don't think she's a good thing? And if that is the case, it's probably just meant as a good thing that came from Mantlo during his run on AF.

I do.
I mean, I don't... there is nothing to look forward to until Mantlo leaves, nothing to look forward to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Which, you know as well as I do, we have to make the little things count as good things (why do I have this odd feeling that you're going to find a signature quote that has something to do with that last sentence now?).

Well, I've used up my Alice Cooper It's The Little Things allotment on this thread already...

~ Le Messor
"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little."
~ Edmund Burke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Amanda Sefton. I HAVE been reading your purple prose rants!

You do not have the time nor desire to read my reasonings and/or rants about Amanda Sefton. And even if you did, I do not feel like putting them up right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

I do.
I mean, I don't... there is nothing to look forward to until Mantlo leaves, nothing to look forward to...

So far, one real issue in with her, and I like her. But with Mantlo, that can change from one panel to the next. We'll see. I'll let you know what I think when I'm done reading her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Well, I've used up my Alice Cooper It's The Little Things allotment on this thread already...

Awwww, don't tell me your creativity is stunted this early. :(
It's really too soon for that to happen. All tapped out, huh?:p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

You do not have the time nor desire to read my reasonings and/or rants about Amanda Sefton.

Hm... Then asking was pretty dumb of me. Sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

So far, one real issue in with her, and I like her. But with Mantlo, that can change from one panel to the next. We'll see. I'll let you know what I think when I'm done reading her.

The bulk of her appearances are post-Mantlo. You're rapidly closing in on the end of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Awwww, don't tell me your creativity is stunted this early. :(
It's really too soon for that to happen. All tapped out, huh?:p

For quotes specifically about little things? That doesn't take long. :(

~ Le Messor
"Comic book collectors have issues!"
~ t-shirt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Hm... Then asking was pretty dumb of me. Sorry.

It's okay, you've been allowed two mistakes. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

The bulk of her appearances are post-Mantlo. You're rapidly closing in on the end of that.

That's RIGHT! I totally forgot you posted that little fact to me the other day. Mantlo's run is almost over. Will I be just as screwed entering the next?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

For quotes specifically about little things? That doesn't take long.

Awww. I'm pretty sure there are other musicians who wrote songs with "little things" in the title. Or it's in the lyrics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

It's okay, you've been allowed two mistakes. :p

Woot! Bonus!

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Mantlo's run is almost over. Will I be just as screwed entering the next?

Not even close. \\:D/\\:D/
It's no Byrne, but it ain't Mantlo either.

(Tawmis has... another view.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Awww. I'm pretty sure there are other musicians who wrote songs with "little things" in the title. Or it's in the lyrics.

Not in my collection (in the title)... how 'bout

~ Le Messor
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Woot! Bonus!

Your Bonus Bonus is that I am very forgiving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Not even close. \\:D/\\:D/
It's no Byrne, but it ain't Mantlo either.

(Tawmis has... another view.)

When does the art startting getting really bad? By bad I mean: That wretched-over-muscled-awful-90's art?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Not in my collection (in the title)... how 'bout

~ Le Messor
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."

Then you need to expand your collection. I bet if I looked hard enough there's some pretty good either swing/jazz/blues/other music out there that has "Little Things" of some kind in the music.
But your quote is hilarious. And I instantly let out a long "ewwwwww" at the thought of petting sweaty things.
Who pets sweaty things? Who even does that?

Do. not. answer. that. If you do, my opinion of you will probably change forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Not even close. \\:D/\\:D/
It's no Byrne, but it ain't Mantlo either.
(Tawmis has... another view.)

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

When does the art startting getting really bad? By bad I mean: That wretched-over-muscled-awful-90's art?

You, my dear, about to enter said voyage. And so, too, are you about to enter the Llan the Sorcerer storyline.

I do look forward to your opinion(s) of said story, as it is rather long, whether you agree or disagree with me.
](*,)

The Byrne-Mantlo Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Yesssssssss!
But I find hardly much that hasn't offended me in Mantlo's run.
Heather=completely offensive. As a woman, she totally offends me.
Treatment of Northstar=completely offensive, at different times throughout the run.
Treatment of Aurora=completely offensive. Taking her playful flirtiness and turning her into a crazy, manipulative b!tch is also unforgivable, imo.
Treatment of Puck (and his origins!!!)=WTF OFFENSIVE.
Purple Girl? Does she go away, EVER? Is she ever going to leave this book? I find her initial appearance one of the most offensive things in this series, ever, and honestly, I will never like her. She can piss off. Forever. And take Jeffries with her. Bastids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

And MANIKIN!
They can take Manikin pissing off with them as well. Past, Present, and future selves. They can all screw off out of my books. It cannot happen fast enough.
It DOES happen, right? Eventually?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Do you guys have exact issue numbers as to when this crap gets better?
I just read #54, and it was horrible. Purple Girl needs to go away.

Either intentionally or unintentionally, Mantlo's "Alpha Flight" really forced the Canadian government to assemble a new team because the people Heather has really aren't up to the task of dealing with the threats the originals faced: The (real) GREAT BEASTS*, Ranark, Wendigo... g/a-f

From #52 on has been the worst it has EVER been in AF for me. #53 kind of gets a pass, though, because Heather apologized, in her head, for all the bad things she has thought about Mac.
Her team is still awful.
SHE is still awful.
Now I'm seriously WTFing over the horrible writing. Not just because things are happening that I don't agree with. That aside, it's horrible writing.

Way back when, I think somebody said "Let's make Alpha Flight a horror book", but somebody heard "Let's make Alpha Flight a horrible book."

* DreamQueen's assault on Alpha Flight seems pretty deep-rooted...and it starts to become clearer in #s 59, 60, and 61.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I am wondering if Mantlo's run is hitting me so hard because I am reading at least an issue about every day to every other day vs. reading it only once a month like when it was printed?
I'm assuming most of you probably read Mantlo's run when it was fresh, so you were only reading it once a month, right?

I dislike the Mantlo era whenever I (try to) read it. It just sucks...sorry, I don't know how to sugar-coat it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

Way back when, I think somebody said "Let's make Alpha Flight a horror book", but somebody heard "Let's make Alpha Flight a horrible book."

Hahahahahaha! Oh, Garry, you are brilliant. <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

* DreamQueen's assault on Alpha Flight seems pretty deep-rooted...and it starts to become clearer in #s 59, 60, and 61.

oooh, I will find this out soon as #59 is my next issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

When does the art startting getting really bad? By bad I mean: That wretched-over-muscled-awful-90's art?

Ummm... The art gets really, really bad before that even sets in. Unfortunately, Jim Lee is going to leave fairly soon, and be replaced by an artist who wasn't yet up to the task.

The 90s art doesn't really come in until the hundreds, but it starts head that direction in, well, the 90s (from about #88 until the end of the series, iirc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Then you need to expand your collection. I bet if I looked hard enough there's some pretty good either swing/jazz/blues/other music out there that has "Little Things" of some kind in the music.

Lol! Two of the walls around me are covered in CDs. Seriously. (They're on CD racks.)

It's just... I can only search iTunes by titles, not lyrics. :( I don't even have lyrics on iTunes for most of my 20,500+ songs. For lyrics, I have to go to Memory, and that just isn't bringing up results for 'little things'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

But your quote is hilarious. And I instantly let out a long "ewwwwww" at the thought of petting sweaty things.
Who pets sweaty things? Who even does that?

It's something I heard from my gaming friends. I don't know where it came from, nor who would disobey that advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

Way back when, I think somebody said "Let's make Alpha Flight a horror book", but somebody heard "Let's make Alpha Flight a horrible book."

Massive LOL!

~ Le Messor
"Somebody said Aliens, she thought they meant illegal aliens and signed up."
~ Hudson in Aliens, telling the true story of how Jenette Goldstein was cast in the movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Ummm... The art gets really, really bad before that even sets in. Unfortunately, Jim Lee is going to leave fairly soon, and be replaced by an artist who wasn't yet up to the task.

The 90s art doesn't really come in until the hundreds, but it starts head that direction in, well, the 90s (from about #88 until the end of the series, iirc).

Even Jim Lee had his rounds of bad 90's art. It wasn't so much his art as it was just the stupid style of art back then. His art was nice on AF.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Lol! Two of the walls around me are covered in CDs. Seriously. (They're on CD racks.)

It's just... I can only search iTunes by titles, not lyrics. :( I don't even have lyrics on iTunes for most of my 20,500+ songs. For lyrics, I have to go to Memory, and that just isn't bringing up results for 'little things'.

I will try to find you something.
What does most of your collection consist of?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

It's something I heard from my gaming friends. I don't know where it came from, nor who would disobey that advice.

Good, safe answer!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Even Jim Lee had his rounds of bad 90's art. It wasn't so much his art as it was just the stupid style of art back then. His art was nice on AF.

Not that I am doubting you, but when did Jim Lee have bad art? Even his image days, he was on top of his game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Even his image days, he was on top of his game.

Is that a put-down of Image?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Even Jim Lee had his rounds of bad 90's art. It wasn't so much his art as it was just the stupid style of art back then. His art was nice on AF.

That's very true. He was also a huge relief after some bad art.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Not that I am doubting you, but when did Jim Lee have bad art? Even his image days, he was on top of his game.

Yeah, I've not seen him draw badly.
I did feel some of his designs for the New 52 got samey and not that great... but well-drawn. OTOH, when Catwoman got that horrible goggles costume, even he couldn't make it look good - but there was another Batman series parallelling that one at the time, and the other artist did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I will try to find you something.
What does most of your collection consist of?

Do you mean a YouTube link to listen to? 70s and 80s rock.
And soundtracks.
But I'm eclectic.

~ Le Messor
"I was walking to Shelbyville wearing an onion on my belt as was the style of the time. Now, you couldn't get white onions because of the war..."
~ one of Granpa Simpson's stories...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Not that I am doubting you, but when did Jim Lee have bad art? Even his image days, he was on top of his game.

It wasn't so much his art as it was the 90's style that practically everyone was doing. I thought I said that? I probably shouldn't have said the first part, but no regrets!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

That's very true. He was also a huge relief after some bad art.

Yes, though I never really noticed the art get truly AWFUL on AF (yet) as I have noticed that happen on other series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Yeah, I've not seen him draw badly.

I know every artist isn't always going to be perfect. I don't think he's a bad artist. I just think 90's art was awful. Most of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Do you mean a YouTube link to listen to? 70s and 80s rock.
And soundtracks.
But I'm eclectic.

No, not a youtube link (or you can if you'd like, I don't-whatever), I was just curious.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flightpath07

Is that a put-down of Image?

Yes and no. Much like Alpha Flight V2, I recall enjoy all of those image books (Cyberforce, being the top, followed by WildCATS, Stormwatch, Bloodstrike, Brigade, Youngblood, Shadowhawk, Savage Dragon, WetWorks, and the list goes on)...

I ask, have you tried to re-read any of those lately? Art. Amazing. Story. Not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Yes and no. Much like Alpha Flight V2, I recall enjoy all of those image books (Cyberforce, being the top, followed by WildCATS, Stormwatch, Bloodstrike, Brigade, Youngblood, Shadowhawk, Savage Dragon, WetWorks, and the list goes on)...

I ask, have you tried to re-read any of those lately? Art. Amazing. Story. Not so much.

I am so glad you did not yell at me about Jim Lee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

It wasn't so much his art as it was the 90's style that practically everyone was doing.
I know every artist isn't always going to be perfect. I don't think he's a bad artist. I just think 90's art was awful. Most of the time.

You'll get no argument from me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Yes, though I never really noticed the art get truly AWFUL on AF (yet) as I have noticed that happen on other series.

...
:(
...
Wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

I recall enjoy all of those image books (... Youngblood...)...
I ask, have you tried to re-read any of those lately? Art. Amazing. Story. Not so much.

Has to be done:

http://atopthefourthwall.com/youngblood-1/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/double-feature-3/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/double-feature-2/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/double-feature/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/youngbl...#disqus_thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I am so glad you did not yell at me about Jim Lee.

And, while we're doing those:
http://atopthefourthwall.com/all-sta...n-and-robin-1/

~ Le Messor
"Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooo."
~ Linkara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I am so glad you did not yell at me about Jim Lee.

Never! Everyone is entitled to opinions! I welcome a difference of opinion, as long as said opinion is thoughtful and well written. Not just, "You suck." :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Messor

Has to be done:

http://atopthefourthwall.com/youngblood-1/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/double-feature-3/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/double-feature-2/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/double-feature/
http://atopthefourthwall.com/youngbl...#disqus_thread

Will have to check those out from home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

Yes and no. Much like Alpha Flight V2, I recall enjoy all of those image books (Cyberforce, being the top, followed by WildCATS, Stormwatch, Bloodstrike, Brigade, Youngblood, Shadowhawk, Savage Dragon, WetWorks, and the list goes on)...

I ask, have you tried to re-read any of those lately? Art. Amazing. Story. Not so much.

Actually, i have longboxes FULL of old Image 90's titles; all of them bought after-the-fact. Almost to a title/issue, I love 'em.

Sure, just flood my thread with Image speak.
:p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Sure, just flood my thread with Image speak.
:p

You brought up Jim Lee. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tawmis

You brought up Jim Lee. :)

You know, that is SOOOO like you, Tawmis: muck up my thread and then STILL find a way to blame me.:p