Crackity Jones' Discovery Of Alpha Flight

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Is this going to be the song on repeat all night?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSyB5xSo2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-jdhorGtQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914

And, for a bit of fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af9N7UhTMA8

Oh, yeah, hoping this thread gets another page:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuyXR5by2s

Warning: I have not done due diligence, checking if these are actually the songs I thought they were.
I've also not seen Matt Dillinger.

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSyB5xSo2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-jdhorGtQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914

And, for a bit of fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af9N7UhTMA8

Oh, yeah, hoping this thread gets another page:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuyXR5by2s

Warning: I have not done due diligence, checking if these are actually the songs I thought they were.
I've also not seen Matt Dillinger.

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I don't know what songs you were going for, but these are fine. For fun. Thank you!

Also, #67-#86 arrived the other day, and I intend to read at some point this evening. Family hospital stuff has kept me away from things lately. :(

Let's see... The Pointer Sisters: Neutron Dance and Jump (For My Love) (I could also have gone with I'm So Excited, but I didn't want to stick to one band all night), Van Halen Jump, a-Ha Take On Me. For fun: Nick Rivers: Skeet Surfin'. And, the hopin' for another page was, of course, '39 by Queen. (I'm still on 38.)

:( Sorry about the hospital stuff.

Those shouldn't be as bad as what came before.

~ Le Messor
"My parents didn't want to move to Florida, but they turned sixty, and that's the law."
~Jerry Seinfeld

Three issues into the DreamQueen arc.
Wtf happened to the art come issue #68??
What a MESS.

I mean, Talisman becomes Talisman again, and THAT'S the art that graces her return?

Yyyyyuck.

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

I mean, Talisman becomes Talisman again, and THAT'S the art that graces her return?

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We said the writing would improve. Nobody said the art would.

Crackity, meet John Calimee. He's going to be around until, what, the mid-80s?

Sorry 'bout that. There are a couple of guest issues, and a couple of guest covers that should please you.

~ Le Messor
"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up."
~ Vince Lombardi

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

We said the writing would improve. Nobody said the art would.

Crackity, meet John Calimee. He's going to be around until, what, the mid-80s?

Sorry 'bout that. There are a couple of guest issues, and a couple of guest covers that should please you.

~ Le Messor
"It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up."
~ Vince Lombardi

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When I first opened #67, I had some hopes for art and for story.
The art was slightly distracting, but it was interesting.
THEN, #68 was total eye f*^kery.

Seriously, it hurts.

I am not an art expert.
And I have read a lot of comics for the short time I've actually been reading comics.
BUT!
This is the first time that I have ever, visually, noticed how horrible art can negatively effect the words of a story.
I can typically see past sub-par art if the story is done well.
But that art just ruined it for me.
I cannot BELIEVE that all these major (for me) things happened during this DreamQueen arc, and it was watered down and ruined by that awful art.
We got Walter back as WALTER. And it was dumb-downed by that art. We got Talisman back as TALISMAN. And all I could see was a hideously drawn and overly RED Talisman. Same with Shaman. Heather's character has simmered down some even.
These reappearances should have been grand and had a huge impact on the story. But they didn't.
Gone. Just GONE. :(
I am happy to have them back, but just awful visuals.

Once you are past the Calimee issues, go check out the interview with him on this site. Its really interesting.

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Originally Posted by Flightpath07

Once you are past the Calimee issues, go check out the interview with him on this site. Its really interesting.

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Thanks, I will.
But before I get through those issues and read the interview, can you tell me this?: Was his art just bad for AF? Was he rushed to draw these AF issues?

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Thanks, I will.
But before I get through those issues and read the interview, can you tell me this?: Was his art just bad for AF? Was he rushed to draw these AF issues?

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Just bad for AF? I can't say. I don't know any other work of his.

Why was it so bad? He was very new at the game at the time. Inexperienced. He has improved since then (he showed some recent AF sketches in the interview).

He did #85, Mark Bagley did #86 (not well), then Mike Bair did #87. He did most, or all of Nicieza's run (which ended with #99).
(I'm not guaranteeing that #85 is Calimee's final issue ever, but if he did any after that, there weren't many.)

Bair will be a bit of a relief after Calimee, but then it gets tiresome in its own way. :(

~ Le Messor
"Compromise is the cornerstone of democracy."
~ W.G.P.

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

Why was it so bad? He was very new at the game at the time. Inexperienced. He has improved since then (he showed some recent AF sketches in the interview).

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Ah! That explains it. But, ouch, it was bad. I don't blame him for the coloring (which was just as bad in most places, imo),but, eeeek! it's rough stuff.

Here is a link that lists which comics he has penciled.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:John_Calimee/Penciler

Also, if you Google "John Calimee", interesdting that the first thing that pops up is his interview on alphaflight.net !

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Originally Posted by Flightpath07

Here is a link that lists which comics he has penciled.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:John_Calimee/Penciler
Also, if you Google "John Calimee", interesdting that the first thing that pops up is his interview on alphaflight.net !

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Awesome! (That last part.)

Interesting that the only other Marvel things he's pencilled are Strikeforce: Morituri (Alpha was once called 'the least survivable book since Strikeforce: Morituri.') and a New Warriors annual, which I have (but don't remember him pencilling).

~ Le Messor
"Mystery is the essential element in any work of art."
~ Luis Bunuel

A more complete Calimee credits:

Pencil
Acts of Vengeance Crossovers Omnibus (HC) 1
Alpha Flight (I) 68 - 71, 73 - 76, 78 - 82, 84 - 85, 100
Alpha Flight Special 4
The Amazing Spider-Man Super Special 1
The New Warriors Annual 1
New Warriors Classic TPB 2
The New Warriors Omnibus (HC) 1
Spider-Man TPB: The Complete Clone Saga Epic 3, 5
Strikeforce: Morituri 22, 24 - 25
Strikeforce: Morituri TPB 2
Venom: Sinner takes all 1 - 4


Cover
Alpha Flight (I) 70 - 74, 76 - 80
Strikeforce: Morituri 22


Feature
All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z 10.FT
All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z: Update 3.FT
Alpha Flight (I) 69.FT - 70.FT, 72.FT, 74.FT - 78.FT
Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Update '89 1.FT
Mystic Arcana: The Book of Marvel Magic 1.FT
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Update '89 7.FT

That's a lot more than I thought!
Did he ever do anything for notMarvel?

OTOH:

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Originally Posted by rplass

Acts of Vengeance Crossovers Omnibus (HC) 1
Alpha Flight Special 4
The Amazing Spider-Man Super Special 1
New Warriors Classic TPB 2
The New Warriors Omnibus (HC) 1
Strikeforce: Morituri TPB 2

Feature
All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z 10.FT
All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z: Update 3.FT
Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Update '89 1.FT
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Update '89 7.FT

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Would all of those, and possibly "Mystic Arcana: The Book of Marvel Magic 1.FT" be reprints? The AF special #4 is that mini-series that reprinted #97-100 for newsagencies at the time the originals were coming to comic shops only, right?

(Also, Crackity, in #100 he'd only have some art - it's one of those issues that had art by artists 'past, present, and future'.)

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Originally Posted by rplass

Alpha Flight 78.FT

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A 78-foot issue of Alpha Flight? Why didn't I know about this? Where does anybody store it? Wow!!! Who reads it, Daryl Hannah?

~ Le Messor
"Robert DeNiro's mole has gotta be 3 feet wide!"
~ Weird Al, Frank's 2000" TV

Yeah, a lot of that stuff are reprints, or in the case of the FT (features) just reprinted panels.

Of the stuff Rob posted, his original work is:

Alpha Flight (I) 68 - 71, 73 - 76, 78 - 82, 84 - 85, 100
The Amazing Spider-Man Super Special 1
The New Warriors Annual 1
Strikeforce: Morituri 22, 24 - 25
Venom: Sinner takes all 1 - 4

Alpha Flight (I) 70 - 74, 76 - 80 - Covers
Strikeforce: Morituri 22 - Cover

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Update '89 7 - Silver illustration

His non Marvel work is at http://comicbookdb.com/creator.php?ID=1177 or http://www.comicvine.com/john-calimee/4040-28774/

AF was his biggest run though.

You all like Calimee's art on AF (except maybe minus Le Messor?)?

I'm finding it hard to move to #71 because I am dreading looking at it. :(
Not to be a jerk, but ouch.

Nope.

It's some of the worst stuff in the run.

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

You all like Calimee's art on AF (except maybe minus Le Messor?)?

I'm finding it hard to move to #71 because I am dreading looking at it. :(
Not to be a jerk, but ouch.

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Oh, NO!!! It's BAD!

But I don't blame John anymore, he did the best he could at the time; but that wasn't very good. He NEVER should have got the job (or ANY job as an artist, at that time).

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

You all like Calimee's art on AF (except maybe minus Le Messor?)?

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I don't think most like it, actually. You may have that flipped.

Nah, I just figured with all the links everyone was posting to his other stuff that maybe I was the strange one here in not liking it.
hahahaha.
You all were just being polite. :D

Read issues #71-#74 yesterday, and I really kind of like the story.
And while I think Heather probably never returns to what she was in Byrne's run, I, so far, much prefer Hudnall's Heather. I think he makes better use of her. And so far, I think it's because he doesn't make the stories revolve around her, or force her into the spotlight.
I love that Purple Girl hasn't been in the last two books I've read, but I miss Goblyn and Laura.

But I admit to kind of liking this sorcerer storyline. It got kind of dark and murder-y, which isn't something I typically like in comics, but Alpha Flight needed interesting. To me, Mantlo's run was rarely fun.

Do Purple Girl and Goblyn come back during Hudnall's run, or did Hudnall just officially get rid of all Mantlo's creations (god, that's funny)?

They'll all be back.

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Originally Posted by Phil

They'll all be back.

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Do they come back during Hudnall's run?

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

But I admit to kind of liking this sorcerer storyline. It got kind of dark and murder-y, which isn't something I typically like in comics, but Alpha Flight needed interesting. To me, Mantlo's run was rarely fun.

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I liked when the couple initially finds it and what happens. It's later... where I have an issue with it.

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

Do they come back during Hudnall's run?

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I'm pretty sure I remember a two-story arc with Laura and Goblyn in it. But don't quote me on that.
You know how I hate quotes.

~ Le Messor
"Nature doesn't take care of individuals."
~ Dave Yost

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Originally Posted by Tawmis

I liked when the couple initially finds it and what happens. It's later... where I have an issue with it.

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So, how far am I away from finding out just how bad you think the story is? I read #75 last night.

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

I'm pretty sure I remember a two-story arc with Laura and Goblyn in it. But don't quote me on that.
You know how I hate quotes.

~ Le Messor
"Nature doesn't take care of individuals."
~ Dave Yost

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Ah, yes, the Hater of Quotes.

Good, I want Laura and Goblyn to come back.

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

So, how far am I away from finding out just how bad you think the story is? I read #75 last night.

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Don't let my view skew anything. :) Read it and get to the end, and see if you enjoy it! :)

Nobody's view skews anything for me. I was just curious.
There are quite a few here who love Mantlo's AF run. I can only think of three things that I didn't HATE about it. Yet, I read the entire thing anyway. Even though I well know of your dislike for Llan the Sorcerer, I still intend to read the entire arc. NOTHING anyone says about AF is going to make me NOT read anything written about AF.
And no one's opinion is going to form my own. I am capable of forming my own opinions, and if mine end up being the same as yours or others', then that is coincidence, not planned.
This is, like, the third time someone here has implied my view will be/is skewed by another's view.
I find that implication rather insulting to me. As if I cannot form opinions of my own.

And, no, I'm not mad. It's just the third time it's been implied, and I want it to be known that I CANNNNNN think for myself. And I do. :D

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

This is, like, the third time someone here has implied my view will be/is skewed by another's view.
I find that implication rather insulting to me. As if I cannot form opinions of my own.

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Well I won't speak for anyone else - but when I say I don't want my views to skew - it's basically to say, if I rant and rave about something - you may LOOK for something in what I said. Not that you wouldn't or would read it, because of something I said. But if I nitpick something, you may read it, see it, where as, if you just read it with no prior knowledge of my feelings, you may find some enjoyment. So it's not that you can't/won't create your own opinions. It's kind of like when you have a cut on your arm - it doesn't bother you until you notice it - and suddenly it hurts. That's my theory. :)

I just want you to read it - and comment as you go - and we can discuss it then! :)

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

This is, like, the third time someone here has implied my view will be/is skewed by another's view.
I find that implication rather insulting to me. As if I cannot form opinions of my own.
And, no, I'm not mad. It's just the third time it's been implied, and I want it to be known that I CANNNNNN think for myself. And I do. :D

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Apologies, I know I've said that to you.
It's just, I know I CAN think for myself, too, and can form my own opinions, too -
BUT I also know how much my own opinions DO get skewed by others' opinions.

I try to be fiercely independent in what I think of things, but it's much harder when somebody has told me what to think of something. It's magnified somethingfold if they've done it before I've had a chance to form my own opinion.

I also know that I'm far from the exception that way; that happens with most people.

~ Le Messor
"Everyone has a right to my opinion."
~ poster

Also, posting our views - whether it skews things or not - is a potential for spoilers for you, who hasn't yet read the stories ahead! So it's just nicer to wait and see your reactions and then reply to them! :)

It's okay, guys. I'm not upset with anyone. I just wanted it to be known (since I felt it implied otherwise) that I can think for myself. And don't forget it. :D

Is there a reason Hudnall keeps jumping from one place to another every other issue? I just read #77, and it was some off-the-wall thing with Heather, and NOTHING to do with The Sorcerer.

Made me really DESPISE Madison Jeffries, though.
ROAR.

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Originally Posted by Crackity Jones

It's okay, guys. I'm not upset with anyone. I just wanted it to be known (since I felt it implied otherwise) that I can think for myself. And don't forget it. :D
Is there a reason Hudnall keeps jumping from one place to another every other issue? I just read #77, and it was some off-the-wall thing with Heather, and NOTHING to do with The Sorcerer.
Made me really DESPISE Madison Jeffries, though.
ROAR.

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I suspect Hudnall knew how much you once loved Heather and was able to glance into the future - and knew how you had grown to hate her. So he took another character, for you to hate more, and thus slowly bring your love of Heather back to you. That's what I suspect anyway.

I don't think I have #77! What did Jeffries do that was so horrible? I have some theories about his psychology this could add to.

Also, is your name a Pixies reference? Crack crack crackety Jones!

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Originally Posted by Tawmis

I suspect Hudnall knew how much you once loved Heather and was able to glance into the future - and knew how you had grown to hate her. So he took another character, for you to hate more, and thus slowly bring your love of Heather back to you. That's what I suspect anyway.

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ohmygod, TAWMIS.
IWASJUSTTHINKINGTHIS.

Really, though, even though Heather is still a leader, and she still likes to state that quite a lot, somehow Hudnall writes her a MILLION TIMES better than Mantlo ever did.
He gives her flaws while not making her sacrifice her team because of her flaws. Which makes her real(er).

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Originally Posted by EccentricSage

I don't think I have #77! What did Jeffries do that was so horrible? I have some theories about his psychology this could add to.

Also, is your name a Pixies reference? Crack crack crackety Jones!

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Hello, EccentricSage-

Yes, my name is a Pixies reference. :D
I am from the Chicagoland as well.
And Jeffries had Diamond Lil in his apartment when Heather called to tell him she wasn't going to be able to come over to see him that evening, and he said it was okay he had other things to do anyway.
So, yeah, obviously his "other things to do" was Diamond Lil.

Just get him away from Heather. Bring Mac back. And my Alpha Flight will BE that much closer to being correct again.

Yeah, #77 was a strange one.

It comes across as a inventory issue that was written before Hudnall started his run, like with #63.
The fact that it has a standalone guest penciller makes me think that it was used as a fill-in because Calimee was running late, possibly?

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Originally Posted by Phil

Yeah, #77 was a strange one.

It comes across as a inventory issue that was written before Hudnall started his run, like with #63.
The fact that it has a standalone guest penciller makes me think that it was used as a fill-in because Calimee was running late, possibly?

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If that's the reason (the Calimee one), then consider me shocked.
It's not like it was an Alan Davis, Byrne, or Lee drawing these issues.