Figured as much! :)
I agree. I love how he writes Alpha Flight. Now if he had only made Llan more interesting! ;)
Have you seen Diamond Lil? Rawr! ;)
You won't have to hold your breath much longer... :)
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Figured as much! :)
I agree. I love how he writes Alpha Flight. Now if he had only made Llan more interesting! ;)
Have you seen Diamond Lil? Rawr! ;)
You won't have to hold your breath much longer... :)
Y'know, I've just looked up #77, and I barely remember it. When you were talking about Heather solo, I kept thinking of the one where she goes back to her home town to fight alien plant monsters, which I actually kind of like.
This one?
I vaguely remember the cover, and a little of what happens inside. About as vaguely as a French wave.
Yeah, but Heather's a redhead! {guardian2}
~ Le Messor
"There is no roll to save against redheads."
~ Gaming saying
The pod issue happens prior to this. It reminds me of the story that happened in Defenders (#132). Man I miss the DEFENDERS during that era...
http://www.coverbrowser.com/covers/defenders/3#i132
This is true. But she did sort of murder Snowbird.
Not sure I read that one. I know I owned 125, 130, 136, 138, 143, 147...and read a couple more around there...
Notice I said "owned". :(
Just had a conversation with my mother a few weeks ago, she mentioned all the many boxes of comics she "Gave Away" when i moved away from home...Just.About.Lost.My.Mind.Thinking.About.It.
The Alpha Flight pod issue...wasn't that in the 50's somewhere? Mik, I'm with you, i enjoyed that issue. It didn't fele real Flighty, it was more of a Heather stand-alone creepy-scarey issue, but it was still well written and a good read.
You are a better person than I. I could not imagine if I had lost my comics because someone gave them away. Although, when I moved from San Diego to TN (long story) for two years; then moved from TN _back_ to San Diego - I had to sell off like six of my long comic boxes, dirt cheap, to a local comic shop, to get some extra money to afford the move. I went back and recollected most of what I had sold off (which, included the older run of Defenders, I had kept my New Defenders portion of the run).
:( :( I'm so sorry to hear it.
I'd go spare.
It also reminded me of Byrne's run and the individual character stories back then.
:( Also sad. I'm reminded of going to a comic shop where they told me they'd moved to a smaller premises and had to throw out a ton of old stock. So sad.
~ Le Messor
"Neuroses are red, Melancholia's blue."
Awesome on both accounts! If I've not scared you off yet, maybe we can meet up and fangirl sometime!(or fanboy? Never sure of people's sex online)
Ah, I do have that issue and didn't like it. It was so sudden and cold, how they made Madison and Lil an item again... It made both characters look like total ass holes towards Heather for no logical reason. Though I thought it was stupid that they hooked back up at all, to be honest. Madison had told Lil and Wildchild that he knew about the mind control, and would see what he could do for them. Then, after becoming the Hero Who Saved Alpha Flight he promptly tells his friends they'll have to take the fall and throws them under the bus! What a great guy, eh?
So I guess I can see Madison being so cold and impulsive, but Lil wanting to be with him after that...? WHY?
You might think I hate Jeffries after saying that, but I really like him as a character... He has such great power and potential for good and evil... really under used. My theory is that he's someone with a complex who wants to play the hero... the sort of person who doesn't act out of true altruism but deludes himself into seeing himself as altruistic, as a form of self-mythology. This could explain a lot of his history, really. That said, I think he means well, but meaning well doesn't matter when your only priority deep down is to live in a hero fantasy and you are easily led astray. I wish a writer would do some work with his psychology and continuity... I think there's a good story that could be told there. He's so humanly flawed.
I have yet to read his uninteresting Llan. I didn't get to read yesterday because I had too much work. :(
I'm with Le Messor: Heather is a red head. We're kind of awesome.
Thank GOD.
I've only been waiting forever.
That is #47. And it sucked. Mantlo wrote that one. And while I wasn't exactly keen on Hudnall's detective/mystery/conspiracy issue with Heather, it was a LOT better than Mantlo's, imo. Plus, it added the drama of "Is Madison really sexing Diamond Lil while Heather is on the phone with him? Yes? HATEHIM."
She's a coppery one, too, it would seem.
HA!
It's okay. I really do NOT like Jeffries. I never had much interest in him as a character before he became Box, but at least he was likeable. Then he became Box, and I never liked how Mantlo made them a thing.
But then once they became a thing, and Hudnall started writing them, I accepted it. And then the jerk went and cheated on her with Diamond Lil.
Now I don't like him. And I never probably will. However, I like Diamond Lil, and will probably like her even more once I get to know her better (she gets more development).
Oh, and I'm a female. I love to fangirl, and I barely meet anyone, irl, who fangirls as much as I do. I'm kind of used to keeping it to myself.
I like Jeffries under Byrne and everyone after Hudnall.
Basically anyone but Mantlo & Hudnall.
Under Byrne, he had that blue collar thing going for him. He was just an average Joe, trying to make a living, but happened to have superpowers.
I liked that. It felt 'different'.
It evaporated the moment Mantlo took over, though, and he turned into just another superhero.
~ Le Messor
"Nature tools along, not knowing that it's unified."
~ Allan Sandage
I've always liked Box and thought they used the character pretty poorly. But such is life with Marvel.
Box as a working-class character with powers who fears his ability but learns to use them to do good, that's Jeffries.
I might be the only one, but I was glad when the Jade Dragon and China Force got written out of Alpha Flight. And it didn't take long. I was really glad when Hudnall reversed Michael-as-'Talisman' and Walter-as-'Wanda'...again, it didn't take long.
I haven't commented on the artwork, just because the book apparently kept its schedule which seemed to be the over-riding concern, at the time. Do I wonder what (old-school) Alpha Flight would've looked like if someone like Neal Adams or Jim Steranko had been interested in illustrating them? Yep. Someone like Art Adams or Tom Grummett, now? Yes, indeedy.
The book had a balance under Hudnall that was lacking in the Mantlo era, although Llan breaking Sasquatch's arms was a bit much, imho. And Jeffries and Lil made better sense than Jeffries and Heather.
You're not the only one.
Hmm... I'd love a Neal Adams Alpha Flight. Art Adams? Not as much (I love his art, but it's better in a fantasy setting, like the X-Men and New Mutants in Asgard than in an everyday world, like an ordinary superhero comic). It'd still be great, but I'd prefer Neal to Art.
Grummet... Yep, that'd be great.
I don't have a real feel for Steranko's artwork (though I have plenty of comics he's illustrated).
Well, Jeffries and Lil went back to Byrne's days, where we knew they were ex-lovers.
~ Le Messor
"I think I know where to sign on a sexual harassment suit."
~ The I.T. Crowd
I don't think you're alone in any of this. I think most people were glad to see Shaman as Shaman, and Talisman as Talisman, and Walter as Walter (rather than Wanda). I can't, even on the CBR forum, think of anyone who would argue that.
That's one of the many issues I had with Llan. To me, he was written to be "Looks How Bad Arse And Evil I Am" - and didn't do it in a way that really showed it properly. To me, it seemed like Hudnall was trying too hard - to show how "evil" Llan was.
I'm pretty sure our interview here with Hudnall said that he had planned on making Llan's run much longer, where he ended up being behind many plotlines in the shadows but unknown to the reader until it was later revealed. As i have said before, i would have gladly read what Hudnall planned to wrote, instead of what editorial interference forced him to write. I believe the shortening of the original plan resulted in a much more "forced" revealing of Llan's evilness.
I just find it hard, for myself, to blame a writer who was forced to go away from what he wanted to do, to that extent.
Oh, I love what Hudnall did with everything else. My only thing was Llan, that I disliked, really.
But sometimes, you have to wonder, how much is it the writer (blaming either the artist for being delayed, or the editors for stepping in the way of the stories they want to tell). I am sure, a lot of times it is true. But, with a book like Alpha Flight (and this is no slight against the team) - but it wouldn't seem like editors would be too concerned with what was done with the book (unlike, say X-Men or Avengers).
Kewl! Me, I think I like the characters I like for their untapped potential more than anything... And Madison Jeffries is LOADED with untapped or misused potential... as are Wildchild and Diamond Lil.... Once I start to get ideas of my own I get really attached. I have really mixed feeling about how Jeffries has been handled over time... On the one hand I think him trying to replace Mac as the Alpha Male kind of followed Byrne's story... Jeffries was the dark horse who saves the day, after all, and gives a nice little speech about his admiration for what Mac stood for... right before throwing his friends under the bus to run off with Alpha Flight. I think if you look at Madison Jeffries as someone who's trying too hard to be something he's not, a lot of the things people have done with him start to make sense. I'm missing most of Mantlo's run, save for some of the less offensive issues, but I've finally caught up on this thread which has been helpful. I totally agree that Mantlo went WTF overboard with pushing Jeffries and Heather, and am bummed about how things went down with poor Bochs... so unecasary... And Aurora will forever have that psycho-***** third personality for writers to exploit now... Frank Tieri's handling of her outside of AF for example.
The thing that bugs me about when he hooks back up with Lil is how in one panel she calls him 'Mr. Jeffries' which is just weird for an ex-lover to do... and then she tries to apologize for Omega Flight and he says 'it's ok, I know all about that' or whatever.... Was that Hudnal or Mantlo...? I mean... it makes no sense... she's apologizing to the man who threw her under the bus for her mind control, and of course he knows all about it... just... wut?! I really wish they'd never hooked back up. Lil deserved better than Madison Jeffries, quite frankly! You'll see why I say that later on! And yes, I think you'll like her, she has a really cool story in LiveWorld at one point, despite the painful art.
Speaking of which, I'd love to attempt to re-draw some of that run for practice, if anyone has the time to transcribe the script, even for just one decent issue. I'm missing some of Hudnal's run, too, and I also don't want to draw directly from the bad artist's work because I find it influences me and limits how I can picture the story.
I liked that about Jeffries, too. Pretty much all my AF favorites are down on their luck, working class, and/or outcasts. I can rationalize the change in Jeffries being him 'taking his big chance' and getting carried away... That's how I reconcile a lot of his history, personally.
Eeeeeew Tieri. :p
If I ever worked for marvel I'd draw him with that squinty eye'd face and the nose that looked like it's been broken several times that Byrne had designed. That was a believable character. Last time I saw him he looked like Reed Richard's long lost brother, though, and acted like he'd become autistic or something... Have I missed anything good, or is this more a case of the absence of outstandingly bad developments passing as good enough? I just think he's gone from being stupidly over powered to completely pathetic wet noodle, personally. Kind of sad.
I hate that... but at least it's a villain doing it here!
My reading brain went on the fritz. I kept reading that as 'I really miss those offensive issues', not 'I have none of the issues except the less offensive ones', which you clearly meant. #-o
To be fair, he never liked going by his first name.
To be unfair (?), the 'Mr.' makes it sound weird.
I tried that too, once. I just didn't get very far (ran out of steam after a few pages; and I was working from the art, not the script).
Whatever happened, it happened in X-Men and Weapon X... I'm probably missing a lot of the X-Men issues, but I think it's just one of those cases of 'We want to write a bunch of dull, emotionless characters (or angry, nasty characters) with nothing to make people want to read them. Uh... uh... It's Realistic! You'd be that way too, if you'd been through what this character has been through! REALISTIC!!!!!!!!!!!'
~ Le Messor
"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
~ Albert Einstein
I just feel like DreamQueen got wrapped up and Llan was introduced; it just feels like had the story been extended, this could have been a story that centered on DreamQueen more (which would have been nice!), and perhaps made it more enjoyable. (And less of a "city of mass murder spree" would have been nice too...)
I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, either. As much as I did like Hudnall's writing, the Llan character and story are... not my favourites.
(Remember, for example, how we found out his name? Neither do I. One issue he was just 'the Sorcerer', the next they were calling him Llan as if that had always been his name.)
~ Le Messor
"I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."
Where for art thou Crackity?
Posted from Crackity over on CBR today:
I haven't been able to even touch a comic in at least a week due to being really busy. I can just skip the summaries and read them when I have caught up. Thanks, though! http://community.comicbookresources....es/biggrin.png
I've been missing her!
I feel like Crackity Jones was a Marvel spy coming to feel the fan's beat, and then left. If we think of the Marvel Universe, do we think Crackity Jones stands for anything ? Is there a character who's last night is Jones?
:) Sorry to bust your conspiracy with facts, but:
Crackity Jones, as was revealed somewhere, possibly this thread, is a reference to a song by (The Smiths, I think).
She came aboard and got weighed down by personal problems / business and had to leave. :(
(I'm tempted to use the Parable of the Sower as my quote, but reading comics is hardly what that applies to.)
Also, somebody is still in touch with her on another comics board. I forget which one.
Plus, she lives in Chicago; nobody who works for Marvel knows that there is anything outside the wall around NYC.
'last night'? Stupid auto-correct! Or did you use swipe? :)
~ Le Messor
"Never try to catch two frogs with one hand."
~ Chinese Proverb
It's the Pixies! 'Crack-crack-Crackety-Jones Whup Whup!'
And that's a shame. I was really enjoying this thread and she's fun. Wanted to see her reaction to a certain character's.... makeover... XD
I AM HERE!
I am not a spy. Well, at least not for Marvel. :P
I just got super busy with work. Like, WHOA busy. But there is a bit of a calm before the holiday storm, so I have been able to continue on with reading some AF lately. :D
I read #98 (and posted this on CBR already), but not quite sure of what to think about Nicieza's run so far. It's kind of gaudy, but that goes hand in hand with the 90's. Switching Guardian to Vindicator upon Mac's return was kind of f*c&y for my brain to adjust to.
The 90's art kind of hurts my feelings.
I mean:
http://s28.postimg.org/702ng18dp/Sas...apparently.jpg
And then:
http://s4.postimg.org/zd1jkhve5/Northstarbadhair.jpg
But I am a determined bugger. And I am sticking by my Alpha Flight. The best superhero team ever. Through bad art and all. <3
And I have really, Really, REALLY missed you guys a TON.
I will try never to disappear like that ever again.
"I cannot promise to try, but I'll try to try."
YOU MEAN THAT MUCH. <3
Wait... That's exactly what a spy would say! :P
Called it!
That's probably a good thing, though, right?
Last I heard, you were in the #30s - 40s. Have you skipped a bunch, or really got that far in your reading (and not told us?:()?
What do you think of the Inbetweenies?
I have a theory that Nicieza takes a lot of jobs just for the money. When he's writing for love, he's really good, but when it's just for money, it shows.
The biggest trouble I had with the artwork in this run is the constipated poses.
We missed you, too!
How do you DO that?
~ Le Messor
"She said you weren't fit to sleep with pigs. But I defended you; I said you were fit to sleep with pigs!"
~ old joke
Yes, you got it. I did not deny being a spy, I am just not one for Marvel. :P
It is! But it also burns me out terribly. But I have lots of new music, and new machines for work, and a new assistant (who brings me chocolate and unicorn t-shirts, so, like I have the best assistant in all of EVER). :D
No, last I posted here, I believe I was on #77. I have not skipped any. I have been a great little AF fan, and I have read everything in order. I have dragged my ass through some awful issues, and some pretty great ones. I actually LOVED Hudnall's run, and it was entirely too short. I disliked Calimee's art (as I had stated, I think, eaerlier in this thread), but his stories were pretty decent. Or was it that I was just coming off of Mantlo's run? Maybe that's why Hudnall's seemed so amazing to me? I don't know.
I HATE Northstar's long hair. HATE IT. It's so bad. And that scan I posted of Sasquatch? Is that not the worst thing in all of ever? Yyyyyuuuucccckkkkk.
I have missed you guys sosososososososo MUCH. I have barely had time to read, but I cannot believe I still made it over 20 issues since my last post.
Do what? Disappear, or the trying not to disappear part?
I'm good at both. :D
Hahahahaha! I have missed your quotes!
That sounds good. I hope some of that new music is old music, though. Lots o' good old music out there! :)
Of course! I remember now, you were just starting Hudnall's run.
You're right, there have definitely been good and bad issues in that time.
I feel the same.
Wait.
~ Le Messor
"A hair in the head is worth two in the brush."
~ Oliver Herford