Alpha/Omega

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

In laymans terms, Alpha Flight is f.u.b.a.r. Your right, it is wrong for Marvel to blame the product, they should be looking at themselves for ever allowing Seagle and Lobdell to further damage an already damaged concept. So what should they do ? Slap a plaster on it and hope the wounds will heal. "Lets just do it as Alpha Flight, with very little or no damage repair, that'll keep the Alpha fans happy". From what I'm hearing here, it prolly would keep us happy, but AF vol 4 goes the way of all flesh after a x amount of issues. So instead they ask Mike Oeming to do a major repair job which will prolly involve concepts that don't immediately appeal to the fans. What should we do, b***h about it before we even see what Oeming is gonna do or wait and see?

When we see that Mac isn't in the team, then surely that is the time to b***h? When we see Omega Flight become Avengers North in all but name, then that's the time to b***h. Negativity breeds further negativity, lets give Oeming the benefit of the doubt for now and b***h like unpaid whores if it all goes tits up. Not much to ask.

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Like I said...I may buy the first issue (I may also take a peek at it first/"Byrne-steal" and decide not to buy it)...I'm being as positive as I can be right now and ya'll will have to deal with it. Should I support a book I have no interest in reading (with characters I have no interest in reading about)? No...I won't be a sucker again, just to feed a desperate AF need (Like buying the crap-fest of Vol. 3). As it has been said...This is not Alpha Flight, Del...I am an Alpha Flight fan...I don't want a bunch of stand ins (again)...Period.

...And why not slap some plaster on the old?....Do you bulldoze an old house just because it needs a bit of work and patching up? No. Should Marvel kill off every Avenger that doesn't always work well on the team? No...They usually just rework them a bit and sometimes they are a success later.

Dana

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Originally Posted by Ben

LOTS of people are buzzing about this book, and it will draw lots of people in from the looks of it.

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Good for this book. But if it's not Alpha Flight, what do I care?

(Maybe I will, if it's a good series, which I enjoy. But, the point is, a popular non-Alpha team is still a non-Alpha team.)

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Negativity breeds further negativity, lets give Oeming the benefit of the doubt for now and b***h like unpaid whores if it all goes tits up. Not much to ask.

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Absolutely.
Marvel tends to look at something successful, grab a single aspect of that, and expect their books to sell really well when they shove it through all the titles. X-Files brought us v2. JLI brought us v3. Sandman brought us a lot of Alpha Flight v1.

The trend now seems to be realism (which I think comes from the X-Men movie). Thing is, with this one, unlike the others, it actually seems to make the books good. With a good editor, Oeming might write really well (as long as he gets rid of all those typos; 'I want to here from the fans'? ).

I hope so.

And I will buy Omega Flight.

But none of that will make it Alpha Flight. Maybe what Oeming does with the book will. Wouldn't that be cool?

(But I'm suddenly flashing back to v2, and Seagle's constant 'Stick around, I'm going to be getting back to the things you love' remarks, which meant a guest appearance in the last two storylines, and a single mystic-esque storyline. Come to think of it, I keep thinking I've heard all these arguments before; 'Give the new book a chance' 'A new Alpha title, yay!'...)

I'm thinking this series will be good. I'm getting an atmosphere of New Avengers or Young Avengers, both titles I enjoy.
But neither Alpha Flight.

- Le Messor
The Doctor: "Never think the situation will turn out for the worst until it's happened. Then you can think the worst."
Romana: "But what if it turns out for the best?"
The Doctor: "Don't be ridiculous. It always turns out for the worst."

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

...And why not slap some plaster on the old?....Do you bulldoze an old house just because it needs a bit of work and patching up? No. Should Marvel kill off every Avenger that doesn't always work well on the team? No...They usually just rework them a bit and sometimes they are a success later.

Dana

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If the house is as rickety as Alpha is at present, you knock down the house and build again from the foundations.

If you slap plaster over a blown wall, it just covers the damage for a short while, eventually cracks appear and the whole thing falls down.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

...And why not slap some plaster on the old?....Do you bulldoze an old house just because it needs a bit of work and patching up? No. Should Marvel kill off every Avenger that doesn't always work well on the team? No...They usually just rework them a bit and sometimes they are a success later.

Dana

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If the house is as rickety as Alpha is at present, you knock down the house and build again from the foundations.

If you slap plaster over a blown wall, it just covers the damage for a short while, eventually cracks appear and the whole thing falls down.

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This is fiction we're talking about here, Del...People get entirely too hung up on continuity (Myself included sometimes)....Everything can be mended and turn out just fine. Those cracks to which you are referring will only appear because of who is writing the book. Get a good writer and those cracks will never been seen again.

Dana

I'm not disputing that Dana, I'm just trying to say that the damage to Alpha Flight can not be repaired overnight. I know it's not Alpha Flight as we know it, but that doesn't mean it can't be.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

I'm not disputing that Dana, I'm just trying to say that the damage to Alpha Flight can not be repaired overnight. I know it's not Alpha Flight as we know it, but that doesn't mean it can't be.

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Wha-?! It does mean it can't be AF...It's called Omega Flight and it's roster is made up of Force Works/Thor cast-offs with one former AF member...How the heck can it ever be Alpha Flight?! I don't buy it (and it's highly probable that I won't buy it when it comes out either).

Dana

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Dana:

Thanks for your suggestions and while I do appreciate the sentiment, the goal for us is to create a successful title. While Alpha Flight does have it's following, in the past it hasn't been a big enough following to keep the book afloat for a sustained period of time. Our goal is to hopefully refresh the concept and have it appeal to the old fans and hopefully enough new that we can continue publishing it for years to come. Will this work, I don't know, there are no guarantees in the entertainment biz, but we're going to be giving it our best shot. Hopefully you'll give the new title a shot and hopefully we can deliver the goods.

Be well,
JQ

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Like I said...Hogwashery.

Dana

One former AF member? Permanently made up of Force Works/Thor cast offs. Well as long as we know that's definate, then make room and give me a banner, I've come to join your revolution.

Can you imagine if Omega really worked and sold well, then on the stength of that, they released Beta Flight as a monthly, that wouldn't be Alpha either.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

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Dana:

Thanks for your suggestions and while I do appreciate the sentiment, the goal for us is to create a successful title. While Alpha Flight does have it's following, in the past it hasn't been a big enough following to keep the book afloat for a sustained period of time. Our goal is to hopefully refresh the concept and have it appeal to the old fans and hopefully enough new that we can continue publishing it for years to come. Will this work, I don't know, there are no guarantees in the entertainment biz, but we're going to be giving it our best shot. Hopefully you'll give the new title a shot and hopefully we can deliver the goods.

Be well,
JQ

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Like I said...Hogwashery.

Dana

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Care to elaborate, cos I don't see hogwashery, just a well reasoned response.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

One former AF member? Permanently made up of Force Works/Thor cast offs. Well as long as we know that's definate, then make room and give me a banner, I've come to join your revolution.

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I/We don't know it's definite...I never said that (implied it, maybe), but that's what we've been told and shown, so far. There is no "revolution"...The only losers in this are AF fans, if this book turns out to be what Mr. Oeming, Quesada, etc...are claiming it will be. If this is a bunch of lies to cover up the real story (meaning a new and true AF book)...Great! To tell the truth...If it's a choice of being told lies or not being given any info....I'd rather be left in the dark....Thanks.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Can you imagine if Omega really worked and sold well, then on the stength of that, they released Beta Flight as a monthly, that wouldn't be Alpha either.

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Ooh!...Beta Flight?!...Who would be on that team? Marrina, Battlestar, Thor Girl/the Designate, War Machine, and the Irredeemable Ant-Man??!!! I'll pass...Thanks again.

I'm gonna leave it here Dana, a comic book is not worth falling out over. I'll remain optimistic and you can remain pessemistic. When the time comes and if your proved right, then you can give me all the told you so's you want. If I'm right, I'll just read the book and be glad that Alpha or some semblence of Alpha is getting the respect they deserve.

As regard the Beta thing, your mind is already half made up about a premise that doesn't even exist.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

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Dana:

Thanks for your suggestions and while I do appreciate the sentiment, the goal for us is to create a successful title. While Alpha Flight does have it's following, in the past it hasn't been a big enough following to keep the book afloat for a sustained period of time. Our goal is to hopefully refresh the concept and have it appeal to the old fans and hopefully enough new that we can continue publishing it for years to come. Will this work, I don't know, there are no guarantees in the entertainment biz, but we're going to be giving it our best shot. Hopefully you'll give the new title a shot and hopefully we can deliver the goods.

Be well,
JQ

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Like I said...Hogwashery.

Dana

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Care to elaborate, cos I don't see hogwashery, just a well reasoned response.

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Ten years isn't a sustained period of time? Giving it their best shot (is it really their best shot...One would think, actually giving the real AF/well-written and illustrated a try would be giving it their "best shot")? I don't see how this would be "delivering the goods" at all...It isn't Alpha Flight, but they're certainly trying to pass it off as a acceptable substitute (in their opinion). "Refreshing the concept" would be dusting off the old and reviving what made them special and sellable, not replacing the concept almost entirely (a team of characters with no connections to the old, save for one member...A new title (associated with the enemies of said original concept team)...A cast of non-Canadian heroes on a Canada-based team).

It's ill-disquised "peacetalk".

Dana

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

I'm gonna leave it here Dana, a comic book is not worth falling out over. I'll remain optimistic and you can remain pessemistic. When the time comes and if your proved right, then you can give me all the told you so's you want. If I'm right, I'll just read the book and be glad that Alpha or some semblence of Alpha is getting the respect they deserve.

As regard the Beta thing, your mind is already half made up about a premise that doesn't even exist.

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I'm not trying to fight with you, Del (and just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I am pessimistic about AF...Not in the least)...I'm merely expressing my opinions/disappointment and frustration at the news of no Alpha Flight and this sad place-filler....Please don't take any of it personally.

I still don't see any respect for AF or it's fans in this book...Alpha Flight is dead...It doesn't get any more disrespectful than that IMHO. This bull-oney that killing the team gives them new life is just that...Bull. Sure, AF fans and others are talking about the group's being owned...But yet again, AF was shown to be weak, a joke and not worth caring about (on Marvel's part). We disagree on a lot of it and that's okay.

I was mostly joking about the Beta concept, if you couldn't tell.

Dana :wink:

I would have loved an Alpha Flight that contained all the originals and was as good as what Byrne originally gave us. I'm pissed that Bendis wiped them out off panel. Thing is, I want an Alpha, now we can wait for god knows how long, maybe forever for our ideal Alpha or hope that with Oeming on the book we see some semblence of it x amount of issues down the line. I'd rather some Alpha than non at all.

I totally agree that Alpha has constantly been treated as third raters and that sucks, but you can't change the past.

As for the Beta thing, I hate your line up :D :shock: :lol: I want Frogman, Stiltman and Caliber.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

I would have loved an Alpha Flight that contained all the originals and was as good as what Byrne originally gave us. I'm pissed that Bendis wiped them out off panel. Thing is, I want an Alpha, now we can wait for god knows how long, maybe forever for our ideal Alpha or hope that with Oeming on the book we see some semblence of it x amount of issues down the line. I'd rather some Alpha than non at all.

I totally agree that Alpha has constantly been treated as third raters and that sucks, but you can't change the past.

As for the Beta thing, I hate your line up :D :shock: :lol: I want Frogman, Stiltman and Caliber.

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LOL...Eh...I was going for rough analogues to the Omega team (i.e. a Thor-wannabee, Former Force Works/Avengers characters and a former Alphan)...And the new Ant-Man just because...well...he's new and shiny (not that I care about him, though....Poor Scott Lang).

As for waiting for my ideal AF?...I'll keep the candle lit and plan to...Uh nevermind. Maybe Quesada will quit as E.I.C. soon and somebody with more of an open mind will take the job (crosses fingers and holds breath............................................ >gasp<...Okay...scratch the breath-holding part).

Dana :D