Windshear

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I don't think about a characters race at all

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Just how it should be! It has simply occurred to me that Fabian seems to push the issue, and I couldn't agree more:

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Also I think AF was pretty diverse ethnically and socially anyway. Not many books can boast Native Canadians, a little person, French Canadians, a homosexual etc etc... not to mention a Plodex!!!

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I liked Windshear, and there's still a lot of potential with the character. I hope no one misconstrues my comment that Windshear seems a token to the Alpha of the time.

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Originally Posted by kozzi24

I liked Windshear, and there's still a lot of potential with the character. I hope no one misconstrues my comment that Windshear seems a token to the Alpha of the time.

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Nothing misconstrued at all, but the problem with Windshear is that he was a token, Alpha went through so many writer changes at the time that a solid base for the character couldn't be found. FabNic wrote an excellent issue that highlighted three team members problems, Aurora and her religious beliefs, Diamond Lil and her benign tumour and Windshear and his adaptation too life and who he was.

Unfortunately the Windshear story which was started off well was never fully explored due to writer changes. The next time he was highlighted was during the last Infinity thing and he was very much mind controlled in that, so Hume as an Alpha character probably never got the same breaks as the other. Therefore changing him from an interesting character into a token character.

JMTCW

I thought that issue (the three header with Aurora/Windshear/Diamond Lil) was building up something interesting for Hume, but unfortunately as you say there were so many different writers that came and went from the title that Windshear was never really given a chance again - which begs the question of why he wasn't simply gotten rid of altogether, rather than shunting him into the backgroud as a sort of recurring/day player?

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Nothing misconstrued at all, but the problem with Windshear is that he was a token...

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Well then, Alpha's the best place for him. It's a team comprised ENTIRELY out of token characters! Let me demonstrate.

For the sake of my arguement, I'm going to devide the team into two classes, basing it off the era at the time Alpha Flight was first introduced (lae 70's, early 80's) - Real World token characters (traits that can be seen in real life, but only utilised in comics to meet an end, usually using only one character per trait), and Marvel Universe token characters (traits that formulate a set pattern for team organisation - every team were generally composed of at least one feral (hunter-type)/animalistic/monstrous character, a brainiac of some sort, a psychic and/or mystic, at least one energy, emitter, a strong-arm, and for the most part an alien/time-traveler/god-like being/dead person [depending on the book]). For the sake of readability (and writeability), I'll condence this to 'R' and 'M', respectively.

If you look at issue 1 of Alpha Flight vol. 1, we are introduced to 9 main characters:

Guardian (JMH)(M) - Brainiac #1 (Doctorate in Engineering and Cybernetics, iirc), and wears the Canadian flag as a costume
Aurora (R) - Not only a French-Canadian (Québécoise)*, but a character with a mental disorder (MPD)
Nortstar (R) - French-Canadian ('Québécois), but also a token based on his later-admitted homosexuality (also prerequisite PITA**)
Shaman (M,R) - Not only the only Native character at it's start, but a mystic. This merges both the 'M' and 'R' statuses, as very few American media company can have a Canadian team without a Native character (stereotype #1), but - in the case of science-fiction - that Native character also must be mystically inclined, pointing out the intricacies that the Native peoples have in their spirituality. Also, he's Brainiac #2 (Ph.D in general medicine)
Snowbird (M,R) - Feral/Animalistic, Demigoddess and mystic; Albino and predominantly Native/Inuit (in history)
Sasquatch (M) - here he fills three roles: Strongarm, Feral/Animalistic, and Brainiac #3 (Ph.D in biophysics) (I'm ignoring his connection to Tanaraq due to the fact that it's not intrinsic to my argument, although I'm not saying it's not a crucial point to his character)
Puck (R) - the only known superhero I can think of who suffers from Dwarfism
Marrina (M) - token alien
Heather Hudson (M) - non-involved (until later) romantic interest (only difference is, she was married to the guy before the series began - a true groundbreaking)

Then we add to them (at random, as I'm not going to list EVERY member):

Roger Bochs (R) - physically disabled (and slightly psychotic towards the end, but I blame Aurora for that primarily)
Talisman (M, R) - See 'Shaman'
Windshear (R) - token Black guy and foreigner (as in, not Canadian)
Persuasion/Purple Girl - psychic (at a time when there were no other psychics, they needed one to fill in the gap)
Wild Child (Weapon Omega/Wildheart) (M,R) - Feral; prone to psychotic episodes (a mental defect)

Now let's look at vol. 2's cast:
Guardian (SynJMH) & Vindicator - See Guardian (JMH) above
Puck - See above
Radius (R) - troubled teen with chip on his shoulder; current contender for PITA
Sasquatch II (M) - um, the guy's a real friggin' SASQUATCH/BIG FOOT/YETI! You do the math...
Sunfire (M,R) - as a long-standing character (longer than Puck and Heather), he's here to further tie these newbies to the MU; Foreigner
Murmur (M,R) - Psychic; French-Canadian (Québécoise, it's assumed - pretty much a rip-off of Aurora and Persuasion)
Manbot (M) - c'mon, name one team that HASN'T had a big, metallic/robotic entity... heck, Alpha's had 4!)

Pretty much the only one who's not a token character is Flex.

Vol. 3!

Sasquatch - see above
Nemesis (M,R) - questionably mortality status; sociopath
Puck II (R) - One of two visible minorities (CanAsian)
Centennial (M,R) - First really old guy to actually be really old; second token Black guy
Major mapleleaf (M) - first, he calls him self 'Major Mapleleaf', need I say more? Second, he's wearing a stylised Mountie's uniform (remenescent of JMH's flag-suit in effect)

So, you see, the issue really isn't whether Hume's a token character - because he is -it's that so is EVERYONE else on the team.



*as I've recently been informed, the preferred term amungst certain members of this forum is 'Québécois/e', although Anglophonic Canadians generally refer to them as French-Canadians)
** PITA = Pain in the Ass (arrogance)

http://www.multimania.com/independan...logoentree.jpg

although Anglophonic Canadians generally refer to them as French-Canadians

[-X
That why we want to seperate and have our country !!!
... (burN@, Syvalois boyfriend \:D/ ) lol... :arrow:

You know i like Canadian, but.... I'm not Canadian.
I'm Quebecois !!!
8-[

I am not responsible for the personmy ...boyfriend using my name.

I just wanted to say that Northstar would see a big difference in been called french canadian or Quebecois, Aurora would not mind and Murmur is a french-canadian, because see was raised in Ontario and probably is not from Québec. (not everyone speaking french come from Québec you know)

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Originally Posted by HappyCanuck

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Nothing misconstrued at all, but the problem with Windshear is that he was a token...

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Aurora (R) - Not only a French-Canadian (Québécoise)*, but a character with a mental disorder (MPD)
Nortstar (R) - French-Canadian ('Québécois), but also a token based on his later-admitted homosexuality (also prerequisite PITA**)
Murmur (M,R) - Psychic; French-Canadian (Québécoise, it's assumed - pretty much a rip-off of Aurora and Persuasion)
*as I've recently been informed, the preferred term amungst certain members of this forum is 'Québécois/e', although Anglophonic Canadians generally refer to them as French-Canadians)
** PITA = Pain in the Ass (arrogance)

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Interesting theory, Happy Canuck. I think the division of powers isn't a tenet in the Marvel Universe, but DC as well. And it makes sense. Oversimplified here: You can have a team composed of Sasquatch, Colossus, Juggernaut, Strong Guy, Hulk and Thing, and they'll kick any powerhouse's booty. Trouble is, their booty would be kicked by Cyclops, who can strike from a distance. Or Northstar, who can move too fast to be hit. Or Invisible Woman, or Scarlet Witch, or Ant Man. A team with repetive power limits the stories that can be told, and gets boring faster than the writers think. Alpha has approached this porblem, as the powers of Guardian and Vindicator, and Northstar and Aurora, Shaman and Talisman are all repetitive. That's not tokenism, that's niche filling, and without that variety, the team is vulnerable. Examples: Mark Waid recently demonstrated the FF's vulnerability to mystic threats. The Avengers are also vulnerable here, as Scarlet Witch tends to play bettet mystic offense than defense. Busiek proved in THE ORDER that the Defenders are vulnerable to mind control. Alpha Flight has the mystical angle covered better than most teams, and in terms of varied powers, the team as of Volume 1 #1 had most bases covered. Claremont proved two years into the run, in the 1st X-Men/Alpha Limited, that Alpha is especially vulnerable to telepathic attack.
Windhsear had an interesting power, but most things he could do could, with application, be covered by the twins or the Guardian battlesuit. He was given an interesting backstory that shared common enemy with Alpha history. Fabian created a good character, but the writer's intention was for him to be a new member on an already crowded team, and he made a black character because ALPHA did not have a black member. (Count Pathway & Goblyn as Beta.) When Fabian left, he should have taken Windshear with him. Shortly after Fabian left, editorial mandate wanted the A-team to be as close to the original roster as possible. At the time, "Wildheart/Weapon Omega" was the exception. This is where the well-rounded Windshear was relegated strictly to a token. He was made administrator because now the token black couldn't be removed without an appearance of political incorrectness.
Unfortunately, since Volume I's cancellation, Windshear has only been used by Fabian, in Thunderbolts. It's a shame, because Windshear was a great character, and I hope he finds some mainstream use again.
In fact, from my perspective of an Alpha reader since Byrne's run, Windshear was the last really good character created in any Alpha Flight incarnation, including the revamp of Wild Child, Furman's enjoyable run, or the subsequent volumes.

Just wanted to point about that Kara is NOT a psychic. She controls people via pheromones, which are a biological product. It has nothing to do with her controlling people with her thoughts.

I have a french name and my ancestry is french/polish but I am a Canadian foremost. I've been to Quebec a few times to. I don't see what the problem is about Quebecois or French Canadian. Quebec is still a part of Canada so they are Canadian and should be proud of it.
I would definitely not want a team made up of heroes with all the same powers. Infinite Diversification in Infinite Combinations makes for a much more interesting read. Having a Shaman and Sasquatch on a Canadian team makes sence to me to have people connected to Canadian mythology. Power suits sure why not they let an ordinary person become something more. A super-hero. Having a diverse team is something marvel should be doing and continue doing and if they have a mix that is working why not stay with it. Since in real life we have different races why not on a team. I don't think someone should be just stuck in there because they fill a sterio typical role. They should be there because they have the potential to be a great character.

Okay, you all have valid points, however, let me rephrase...

Kozzi - no real arguements, as you seem to be agreeing with me :D

MMJ - although her power is phermonal, she's proven she can connect with people on a pseudo-telepathic basis (okay, it's only with Goblyn, but nonetheless)

Sylvie - I called Murmur Québécoise only because I wasn't aware if she was BORN and RAISED in Ontario, or if she spend any of her time in PQ. I understand that not all Francophones are from Québéc and not all people from PQ are Francophones.

Rich - I won't comment on the social problems between PQ and the rest of the country, only because I don't know all the dynamics, however, from what I gathered, many Québécois/e believe that to be called 'Canadian' would be like the rest of us Canucks to be called 'American'. I'm sure you can see the analogous implications there.

What is a Francophone?

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Originally Posted by HappyCanuck

MMJ - although her power is phermonal, she's proven she can connect with people on a pseudo-telepathic basis (okay, it's only with Goblyn, but nonetheless)

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Kara did use that "mind-meld" (gah i HATE that term... it sounds so B-movie) power of hers on an alien crystal race, too. Didn't she?

So wouldn't it be nice to have guess appearances by former members even if they are not rejoining.

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Originally Posted by Richv1

What is a Francophone?

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A Francophone is anyone who speaks French, or comes from a French background. English speakers are 'Anglophones'.

So if I'm half french in background and speak almost no french. Do I still qualify?