Alpha/Omega

I went on Saturday, missed the panel with Joe Quesada and Marvel's upcoming plans :( , talked briefly with Michael Golden, picked up two more AFV1 back issues for a dollar each, and tried to get Keith Pollard to look at my work, but he was busy drawing commission sketches. I talked with some of the independent/self-published creators, who looked at my stuff and offered some helpful suggestions, just like...

...Mike Oeming, who I got to talk to. My biggest concern was finding out if "Mailman Mike" from NA#16 was going to be on this new team. I was told he would not be on the team, that the new series would pay homage to the old AF, and that more characters (not pictured) from the old series would be included. Mr. Oeming, who was sketching at the time, even took a few moments to look at my work and assess it. He told me that I should work on tightening my pencil-work for a better foundation, and I'll do that.

All the other questions I could've and should've asked him didn't come to me until I was on my way home. Personally, I'd feel a little bit better about the upcoming OMEGA FLIGHT series if the shadowed figures didn't remind me of volume 3's shadowed characters. However, if new fans can be introduced to the Alpha Flight universe this way, and old fans can get a decent treatment of the old characters, I think Marvel will be on the right track.

I just hope they don't make the mistake of thinking that OF is going to automatically be a cash-cow, because there is still a sense of wait-and-see wariness hovering over this series.

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Originally Posted by Barnacle13

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Originally Posted by Legerd

Oh I know it won't be AF. I'm just tired of hearing everyone talk like the characters and the team's premise were the reason the original title kept failing. It wasn't. It was an utter lack of ability and creativity on the part of the various writers and a lack of commitment from Marvel.

If there was a failure when it came to AF the company shouldn't blame their product.

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I have to agree and disagree with this. Even the great John Byrne has said he sent this team on the road to doom. It was never intended to be an ongoing series, and the first death of Guardian pretty much laid the groundwork for the eventual failure of the book. So, even the writer we all profess to be the best Alpha has ever had is responsible in some way for their demise.

I say give Oeming Flight a try and see what comes of it. It could be really cool down the road to see the orginals come in as a rival outfit, with Mac ripping the suit off of the imposter Guardian for a major reveal.

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That's absolutely true B13 about JB's AF. He did set them up to be temporary, but they weren't. And it doesn't matter what his intentions were, if the fans wanted the book then Marvel should have put a creative team on it that would do it justice. Instead we got year after year of mediocre stories and art with the team running in circles never growing or developing. Then, when there was finally some decent work being done, the book is cancelled.

As for OF, I hope it does well. I just don't want to be disappointed again by alot of cryptic promises and half-revealed inticements about an AF-esque series. Of course...

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Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

...Mike Oeming, who I got to talk to. My biggest concern was finding out if "Mailman Mike" from NA#16 was going to be on this new team. I was told he would not be on the team, that the new series would pay homage to the old AF, and that more characters (not pictured) from the old series would be included. Mr. Oeming, who was sketching at the time, even took a few moments to look at my work and assess it. He told me that I should work on tightening my pencil-work for a better foundation, and I'll do that.

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...This gives me hope. :)

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Originally Posted by Powersurge

Hopefully the switch of the name from Alpha to Omega isn't an allusion to what is planned for MU Canada if this title flops.

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Mr. Oeming said that was the case in one of the Newsarama interviews...This is Alpha Flight's last stand.

I won't comment further on that, because I'm trying very hard to control my anger.

Dana

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Originally Posted by Legerd

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Originally Posted by Barnacle13

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Originally Posted by Legerd

Oh I know it won't be AF. I'm just tired of hearing everyone talk like the characters and the team's premise were the reason the original title kept failing. It wasn't. It was an utter lack of ability and creativity on the part of the various writers and a lack of commitment from Marvel.

If there was a failure when it came to AF the company shouldn't blame their product.

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I have to agree and disagree with this. Even the great John Byrne has said he sent this team on the road to doom. It was never intended to be an ongoing series, and the first death of Guardian pretty much laid the groundwork for the eventual failure of the book. So, even the writer we all profess to be the best Alpha has ever had is responsible in some way for their demise.

I say give Oeming Flight a try and see what comes of it. It could be really cool down the road to see the orginals come in as a rival outfit, with Mac ripping the suit off of the imposter Guardian for a major reveal.

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That's absolutely true B13 about JB's AF. He did set them up to be temporary, but they weren't. And it doesn't matter what his intentions were, if the fans wanted the book then Marvel should have put a creative team on it that would do it justice. Instead we got year after year of mediocre stories and art with the team running in circles never growing or developing. Then, when there was finally some decent work being done, the book is cancelled.

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I agree, Legerd...John Byrne has also said that he tried pitching a Northstar and Aurora series (I don't recall if it was to be a mini or an ongoing), but Jim Shooter (EIC at the time) rejected it. He has said he enjoyed writing Heather Hudson too...

Sure, Alpha Flight were meant to be one-note heroes, but they grew far beyond that.

I also agree about the lack of commitment on Marvel's part and the bad writing/art being responsible for Alpha's downfall. It's not AF's fault that their series(all of them) failed...The concept itself, is not to blame.

Dana

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I won't comment further on that, because I'm trying very hard to control my anger.

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In the name of God, why? No animals were harmed in the production of this comic (probably). No typhoons hit. No bodies were secretly laid in the concrete of a building's foundation (that I know of).

The birds sing, the wind blows, the sky is still above and the earth below. All is good in the real world.

So some fictional characters get the shaft. And? Yes, it sucks. It's no fun for the fans, and it's remarkably bad decision-making from the editorial staff at Marvel for volumes 2 & 3. (I've got much higher expectations for Omega, given the rep of the creative team.)

Yes, this is Alpha's last chance. Absolutely. For now. Kind of. Let's face it, "reality" changes as often as the people in charge. Quesada won't be in charge forever, editorial staff change, and sooner or later, one way or another, old properties get revived. Alpha did very well at one point. This is, in itself, proof that the concept is not unsellable. Those who claim that it is are merely trying to cover up their failure with excuses.

Sooner or later it will be done right. Someone will have an idea, it'll stick, and things will fly. In the meantime, there are more productive things to get worked up about.

All positive concepts are viable if presented properly. So I think it's a well established and agreed upon fact that it is not Alpha Flight the concept that is the problem!

One of the things I am having trouble with is this anger. Three weeks back we had nothing, now we have a new series that although not Alpha, will have characters from Alpha being portrayed and most probably playing a big part. We've established that Alpha as it stands at the moment is so damaged that it wouldn't work without some external propping up. That again is still not good enough, we want our Alpha and we want it now.

Marvel wouldn't countenence a new Alpha, so Mike Oeming offers us the next best thing, still not good enough. Mike Oeming studies up on Alpha by visiting here, Kollins has said that he is a fan of Alpha Flight and has been waiting years to do this, still not good enough.

http://www.goenglish.com/GoEnglish_c...InTheMouth.gif

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Originally Posted by Northcott

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I won't comment further on that, because I'm trying very hard to control my anger.

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In the name of God, why? No animals were harmed in the production of this comic (probably). No typhoons hit. No bodies were secretly laid in the concrete of a building's foundation (that I know of).

The birds sing, the wind blows, the sky is still above and the earth below. All is good in the real world.

So some fictional characters get the shaft. And? Yes, it sucks. It's no fun for the fans, and it's remarkably bad decision-making from the editorial staff at Marvel for volumes 2 & 3. (I've got much higher expectations for Omega, given the rep of the creative team.)

Yes, this is Alpha's last chance. Absolutely. For now. Kind of. Let's face it, "reality" changes as often as the people in charge. Quesada won't be in charge forever, editorial staff change, and sooner or later, one way or another, old properties get revived. Alpha did very well at one point. This is, in itself, proof that the concept is not unsellable. Those who claim that it is are merely trying to cover up their failure with excuses.

Sooner or later it will be done right. Someone will have an idea, it'll stick, and things will fly. In the meantime, there are more productive things to get worked up about.

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Ed...I have every right to be angry about the current state of Alpha Flight (and duh...We all know they're fictional)...Don't presume to tell me how I should feel. I happen to like the characters of the original Alpha Flight..So sue me, if I get peeved that they've been "killed off, shoved into limbo, ignored, written to look like jokes, etc...

I have no problem interpreting the differences between reality and fiction, contrary to what your implying or what you may believe. you can keep the subtle insults about my mental state to yourself.

Yes...I know Alpha Flight may come back (at some point...maybe when Joke Quesada is no longer EIC), but that's no gaurantee their return will be any better than Vols 2 or 3.

BTW...All is not good in the real world (not that I usually let it get me down)...Where have you been?

Dana :P

OK. Canucklehead, great job!

I like in the 5 pic one the one on bottom left, great shoulder patch!

Of the title ones I like the one DelBubs is using on his sig the most, But of your other three, the middle one with a fatter black Flight is the best.

They should talk to you about using your logos in the series! I am getting more excited just seeing your work, hope Marvel can do as good.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

All positive concepts are viable if presented properly. So I think it's a well established and agreed upon fact that it is not Alpha Flight the concept that is the problem!

One of the things I am having trouble with is this anger. Three weeks back we had nothing, now we have a new series that although not Alpha, will have characters from Alpha being portrayed and most probably playing a big part. We've established that Alpha as it stands at the moment is so damaged that it wouldn't work without some external propping up.

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In your opinion (and apparently Joke Quesada's)...Not mine.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

That again is still not good enough, we want our Alpha and we want it now.

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Damn straight.

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Marvel wouldn't countenence a new Alpha, so Mike Oeming offers us the next best thing, still not good enough. Mike Oeming studies up on Alpha by visiting here, Kollins has said that he is a fan of Alpha Flight and has been waiting years to do this, still not good enough.

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Mike O may be doing research on Alpha here...That's fine, but is that supposed to appeal to me, when the bulk of the characters he's writing about are of no interest to me?

Mr. Oeming may also be offering the next best thing...but if it's not what I want to read(with mostly characters I don't want to read about)...then no..Of course, It isn't good enough (how much clearer can I be on that?).

Dana

Okay Dana, I believe you've made your point. Every body is perfectly aware of where you stand on this issue. Can I suggest that maybe you should step away from this issue now, as it is obviously causing you some distress, otherwise you wouldn't have taken Eds off the cuff remarks so much to heart.

This thread is to discuss the new OMEGA FLIGHT comic by Oeming and Kolins. Your views on it are widely known. I can't see what else you can offer this thead, as you have obviously made up your mind about it already.

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Originally Posted by RolandT

OK. Canucklehead, great job!

I like in the 5 pic one the one on bottom left, great shoulder patch!

Of the title ones I like the one DelBubs is using on his sig the most, But of your other three, the middle one with a fatter black Flight is the best.

They should talk to you about using your logos in the series! I am getting more excited just seeing your work, hope Marvel can do as good.

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Thank you for the kind words Roland! I'm creating these many logos because the last one for V3, to me, was such an eye-sore. I want to make the perfect one most people like then send it to Marvel and see what happens. I'll keep workin on 'em. 8)

I think everyone on this list is at best cautiously optimistic, and at worst unhappy that they aren't getting a true Alpha Flight. I agree with Del, Alpha Flight the concept is not the problem. If they were, then they'd have appeared in Uncanny X-Men all those years ago and disappeared. This forum wouldn't be up and operational, and folks wouldn't be elated or pissed by the news of Oeming Flight.

As someone who tries to fill in every hole in my Alpha Flight collection, including cameos as small as the Aurora cover in Ms.Marvel, I'll be buying. Consider it a cameo if you must, but it will include at least some of the characters I've grown to love over the years. I can't see folks hanging around for Beta Ray Bill, USAgent, or Arachne for an extended period of time. I could be wrong about that though. I'm a little interested in the Arachne/Spider-Woman character, but the other two not so much. However, I will give Oeming and Kollins a chance to change my perspective on these characters. Talisman I couldn't be happeir to read more about and Guardian (regardless of who is in the suit) could lead to some good stories also. I know everyone wants Mac to be Guardian, but it would open some interesting stories up if he weren't. Especially if Mac, Heather, Sas, and Puck survived and come back to reclaim their identities.

Oeming has said there are older Alphans waiting to be reintroduced. Until he gives me a reason to disbelieve I will take his word for it. Marvel has to know that Guardian, Sasquatch, and Puck are fan favorites. I can't see them burying them for long. It may take a few issues to start seeing these folks, but I believe they will eventually be back. V2 was headed in that direction before the plug was pulled. They just didn't get there quick enough. I think V3 failed because the first thing they did was jettison the originals. Well that and crappy storytelling.

Color me cautiously optimistic. I'm exited to have at least some Alphans to read about again and will give Oeming Flight a chance to stand on its own before throwing stones and shooting it down. If there's any chance of seeing Alpha Flight any time soon, I think Omega has to be a success. I'm willing to support that endeavor.

As I mentioned earlier.. if you're still reading Mike. Make sure Marvel gives you the marketing you require. Make sure subscription service is available and advertised. Don't let Marvel leave you and, in the balance, us out to dry. This was once a hot property and if treated properly it can be again.

Tom

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Originally Posted by Canucklehead

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Originally Posted by RolandT

OK. Canucklehead, great job!

I like in the 5 pic one the one on bottom left, great shoulder patch!

Of the title ones I like the one DelBubs is using on his sig the most, But of your other three, the middle one with a fatter black Flight is the best.

They should talk to you about using your logos in the series! I am getting more excited just seeing your work, hope Marvel can do as good.

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Thank you for the kind words Roland! I'm creating these many logos because the last one for V3, to me, was such an eye-sore. I want to make the perfect one most people like then send it to Marvel and see what happens. I'll keep workin on 'em. 8)

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Just a thought, but to pay homage it'd be great if somehow an alpha were hidden in the image. May be asking for too much, but it would be cool!

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Should we be excited? - Well in the sense that it's not really Alpha Flight, probably not. Then again what has been 'really Alpha Flight' since #28 vol 1.

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A-friggin-men on that. Though I collected ALPHA FLIGHT all the way through volume 1, even Vol 2 (which started good, and went down hill quickly), and managed Vol 3 as well... I agree. The real Alpha Flight ceased to be around issue #28 of volume 1. (Some would even say after issue #12...)

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

When it was first built, it was a beautiful thing

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Which is funny in a way - as he never, apparently, wanted to write an ALPHA FLIGHT series; and the characters were basically cardboard cut outs to take on the X-Men (in UXM #120-121).

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

I'm willing to give it a go, you can normally gauge what's going too happen within the first few issues. It may not be Alpha Flight, but it's the nearest we're gonna get.

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Ditto.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

So says Marvel...again and again (I just emailed Joe Quesada and he responded with more hogwash, just like at the time of Vol 3)...But hello! Give the freakin' original Alpha Flight a try (which Marvel hasn't since vol. 1)....MAYBE it will work...These boneheads(meaning Marvel) shouldn't keep saying it doesn't work until it's been actually tried.....GAAAAH! :x

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Now if ALPHA FLIGHT had ended with issue #12 (or #28) of volume one, I don't think asking for the original flight to come back would be that big of a deal. But go back and re-read ALL of the issues. Don't go off of memory - actually go back and read the issues. Writers DESTROYED Alpha Flight with VERY bad writing as the series went on in Vol 1. So many things done TO the characters, that essentially ruined them.

Vindicator (Mac) - Dead. Back. Dead. Back. Dead. Back. Clone. Dead. Back.

Guardian (Heather) - Alive. Loves Mac. Mac dies. Oh, love Jeffry Madison. Oh, kill Snowbird. Oh! Mac's back!

Sasquatch - Alive. Dead. Take over Snowbird. I'm a woman. I'm a man.

Snowbird - I'm alive. I'm dead. Sas has my body. Look, I'm cloned!

Puck - I'm short. Oh, no, there's some evil spirit living in me.

Northstar - I'm alive. I'm dead. I'm alive. I'm an elf. No, it's a lie. I am human.

Aurora - I'm alive. I suffer from MPD. No, wait, Schizophranic now. No. Now my abilities are all changed. I'm okay. No. I'm not.

Shaman - I'm alive. Whoops, sorry daughter. Now I'm Talisman. Now I'm all messed in the head. No, back to Shaman now.

Well... it goes on and on and on. But as you can see, the core of ALPHA FLIGHT has been SEVERELY damaged.

And it gets no better. Vol 2 brought in a mess of inconsistencies (clones and what not), and Vol 3, Oh, we're in space - alive and well - um, we think...

Alpha Flight is VERY damaged goods... as much as I hate to admit it.

So I can see why they'd stray away from using the core Flight. However, in time, if there's a series - say, like OMEGA FLIGHT - where core Alpha members could appear - and with any luck, and some solid writing - get those characters "fixed"... who knows what may happen down the line. We have like 5 different X-Men titles... we have 2 (or more) Avengers related titles... if Omega Flight sees some success... we may see some more Flight related stuff.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

Sure, I want to see Talisman and Guardian again...But I want to see them fighting along-side Shaman, Snowbird, Sasquatch, Vindicator, Puck, Northstar and Aurora...Not a bunch of Force Works cast-offs in an Avengers-Wannabee team.

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I can't help but wonder just before UNCANNY X-MEN #94 and GIANT SIZE X-MEN #1 came out if people were screaming the same thing...

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Originally Posted by Legerd

Oh I know it won't be AF. I'm just tired of hearing everyone talk like the characters and the team's premise were the reason the original title kept failing. It wasn't. It was an utter lack of ability and creativity on the part of the various writers and a lack of commitment from Marvel.

If there was a failure when it came to AF the company shouldn't blame their product.

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I wouldn't blame Marvel. I'd blame the writers. Alpha Flight, all things considered, got a pretty good push. They had little ads in Marvel, they were also used for the "Monthly Subscription" image where Sas is holding them up... more treatment that the New Warriors, for example, ever got.

However, ALPHA FLIGHT was plagued with bad writers between Bryne's departure and then Lobell's introduction (who I think did a fair job with Alpha Flight, considering the damaged goods they were by the time they were handed over to him).

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

Ditto! they don't learn from their mistakes and they don't listen. They'll sell hundreds (maybe thousands/millions) of Toybiz John Byrne Alpha Flight action figures, Marvel Legends Sasquatch figures and Alpha Flight Heroclix/Beanz/etc...But they won't give the original team line-up a chance at their own series? What a bunch of dimbulbs

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For the ALPHA FLIGHT series figures (not the Marvel Legends) - I am going to have to disagree on their "success" factor. Shortly after going on sale, I found them available - by the BUNDLES - in a bargain bin at Toys R Us for like 4 dollars a piece, down from their 7.99 they were originally fetching just a few months before.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

As it has been said...This is not Alpha Flight, Del...I am an Alpha Flight fan...I don't want a bunch of stand ins (again)...Period.

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Well, here's the thing - you got ONE thing right so far. This is NOT Alpha Flight, nor is it pretending to be Alpha Flight. Sure it may have some Alpha Flight "roots" - but look at the title - it's called OMEGA Flight not ALPHA Flight.

If you throw Hawkeye on the Thunderbolts - does that completely change the Thunderbolts team to a "cheap Avengers" team? Not at all. The Thunderbolts have a unique motif, despite a BUNCH of ties to the Avengers. Just because you have Mac, and someone else who appears to be tied to Alpha Flight (the Talisman one) - does not mean it IS Alpha Flight... because, well, it's not. It's OMEGA Flight.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

...And why not slap some plaster on the old?....Do you bulldoze an old house just because it needs a bit of work and patching up? No. Should Marvel kill off every Avenger that doesn't always work well on the team? No...They usually just rework them a bit and sometimes they are a success later.

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In terms of plastering an old house vs bulldozing an old house... as a newly formed home owner (well it's been a year now) - all things considered to "plaster" the old house and patch it up does not even COMPARE to tearing it down and building a new house. A plastered up house would NEVER fetch anywhere as much as a newly bulldozed and reconstructed house. Trust me.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

This is fiction we're talking about here, Del...People get entirely too hung up on continuity (Myself included sometimes)....Everything can be mended and turn out just fine. Those cracks to which you are referring will only appear because of who is writing the book. Get a good writer and those cracks will never been seen again.

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One has to keep in mind - this is a business. If the first issue (or first couple issues) is all about "repairing" ALPHA FLIGHT, any potential new readers are going to drop the book in a heart beat as there's going to be constant foot notes of "See Alpha Flight v1 #37 for more", "See Alpha Flight v1 #121 for more", "See Alpha Flight v2 #5 for more", "See Alpha Flight v1 #58 for more", "See Uncanny X-Men #109 for more", "See Alpha Flight v3 #5 for more"... That's just going to be WAY too much.

HOWEVER, if you take a "new concept" - so it's inviting to new readers, and hopefully if old readers are patient (and demand it enough) - we just might see some "fixing" of the old done over time.

Starting off "fixing" Alpha Flight is a poor way to handle a new series - considering the EXTENSIVE damage done to ALPHA FLIGHT over the years.

[quote="cmdrkoenig67"
Wha-?! It does mean it can't be AF...It's called Omega Flight and it's roster is made up of Force Works/Thor cast-offs with one former AF member...How the heck can it ever be Alpha Flight?! I don't buy it (and it's highly probable that I won't buy it when it comes out either).
[/quote]

Are you reading the same previews as me? I could swear it's called OMEGA FLIGHT... not "ALPHA FLIGHT" like you keep saying?!

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

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Dana:

Thanks for your suggestions and while I do appreciate the sentiment, the goal for us is to create a successful title. While Alpha Flight does have it's following, in the past it hasn't been a big enough following to keep the book afloat for a sustained period of time. Our goal is to hopefully refresh the concept and have it appeal to the old fans and hopefully enough new that we can continue publishing it for years to come. Will this work, I don't know, there are no guarantees in the entertainment biz, but we're going to be giving it our best shot. Hopefully you'll give the new title a shot and hopefully we can deliver the goods.

Be well,
JQ

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Like I said...Hogwashery.

Dana

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While I am not a fan of JQ, for the most part... that email states the very truth. Alpha Flight has flopped several times. But these are writers who came up with a concept they enjoyed - and the Alpha Flight fans did not enjoy it. It's not like Marvel comes up with the concept and hands it to a writer. Writers are coming up with them and handing them to Marvel. It flopped because fans didn't like it. So what's to do? Try something with a different twist...

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

Nah...writers needn't get too hung up on continuity...It spoils the fun of further adventures. IMHO...It would not take a year to clear up the mess that was left of Alpha...Well...maybe if the current "written for trade" crap applies. I truly believe it could be done in a single first issue (double-sized).

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You know Del called you pestimestic... and I would have to agree... but the above... man, that's the MOST Optimistic thing I have EVER heard of...

Okay - so do me a favor - cliff note version - how would YOU "clean up" Alpha Flight within 32 pages?

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Originally Posted by syvalois

Me, I see Af like a classic, you just can write again Watchmen. Who would do Starway to heaven or Apocalypse now? Even Byrme could not write as good now what he did then. The step is too high. The expectation too.

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A-friggin-men. Another good example of this is Chris Claremont himself. Look at the amazing work he did with Uncanny X-Men #94 and all the way through - what - #166 or whatever? Some AMAZING writing. Some of the best, for that matter. But look at his "return" to the X-Men with the Neo and what not - a complete and utter flop, and some of the worse of the X-Men stories read in a long time.

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Originally Posted by Canucklehead

OK, last annoying thing I'll post, honest lol

http://geocities.com/davidchenard99/...lightcover.jpg

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Tell me - how is it you don't have a job with Marvel doing this kind of stuff yet!!?!??!

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Originally Posted by Tiberius Bane

After pondering Omega Flight during the weekend, my opinion on the new series has changed. I'M FREAKING STOKED!

Guardian is back. Sweet!
Elizabeth is on the team. Great!
(Sure it may not be Mac or Elizabeth, but Im being optimistic)

As long as they don't do something silly like put an American in the Guardian suit I think Im going to love this new series.

Im putting my faith in the creative team.

As much as Marvel pisses me off sometimes, I dig some of their other recent moves.

Iron Fist getting his own series again. Moon Knights ongoing. Heroes For Hire. Omega Flight. Now if only Darkhawk can get his own series back. ;)

MikeM

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Well one thing - remember just because they do shove an American in the Guardian suit - doesn't mean that he wouldn't want to be there to defend Canada and know where his roots (for the costume come from)!

As for Darkhawk series... I agree. But he seems busy in RUNAWAYS from my understanding. :) And to pimp - there's talk and fellow Darkhawk fans over on the New Warriors.com forums. (If you were interested in joining over there!) ;)

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Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

I just hope they don't make the mistake of thinking that OF is going to automatically be a cash-cow, because there is still a sense of wait-and-see wariness hovering over this series.

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Well the good thing is - there is - as stated - a buzz about this series. That alone should continue and generate interest - and make people curious enough to check out the comic, new and old readers alike. I know that once the New Warriors got mentioned (and since Civil War), my NewWarriors.com site has been slammed with hits.

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Originally Posted by Northcott

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I won't comment further on that, because I'm trying very hard to control my anger.

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In the name of God, why? No animals were harmed in the production of this comic (probably). No typhoons hit. No bodies were secretly laid in the concrete of a building's foundation (that I know of).

The birds sing, the wind blows, the sky is still above and the earth below. All is good in the real world.

So some fictional characters get the shaft. And? Yes, it sucks. It's no fun for the fans, and it's remarkably bad decision-making from the editorial staff at Marvel for volumes 2 & 3. (I've got much higher expectations for Omega, given the rep of the creative team.)

Yes, this is Alpha's last chance. Absolutely. For now. Kind of. Let's face it, "reality" changes as often as the people in charge. Quesada won't be in charge forever, editorial staff change, and sooner or later, one way or another, old properties get revived. Alpha did very well at one point. This is, in itself, proof that the concept is not unsellable. Those who claim that it is are merely trying to cover up their failure with excuses.

Sooner or later it will be done right. Someone will have an idea, it'll stick, and things will fly. In the meantime, there are more productive things to get worked up about.

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Couldn't agree more. I run NewWarriors.com (man, how many times am I gonna pimp that in the last three quotes?!?) and had the great fortune of watching a version of the New Warriors get killed - namely, Namorita, perhaps one of my favorite female characters - ever - in any comic. (Fellow New Warriors fans are probably painful familiar with my... slight... infatuation with her!)

Was I upset? Surprisingly, no. Why? Because I know eventually some writer will bring her back (via clone or some other story...) The way I see it, it's fictional characters. My days of being bent out of shape over what they do are long over. I watched Thor "give up" and watched that series end (one of my favorite super heroes, hands down). I watched the Warriors Three all die... I watched Sif die... I watched Valkyrie die... I have watched a lot of character I care about find their way six feet under... but I can't find myself getting upset anymore. Maybe it's because I am older (certainly not wiser)... I don't know. I just can't find myself getting bent about the fate of fictional characters anymore... And it's certainly not because I "don't care" - or else I wouldn't be paying monthly to maintain NewWarriors.com... I wouldn't be running an eGroup for New Warriors... I wouldn't be posting on Alpha Flight's forum... I do care about these characters. But I also realize this is entertainment... writing... it's like when they kill off Flint in Dragonlance - I cried. Sure. But it wasn't the end of the world for me. :) (Ah... Dragonlance... writing doesn't get better than that!) :) So I think that's how I view comics now - as one long (and often, very convoluted novel)...

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

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Originally Posted by Northcott

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I won't comment further on that, because I'm trying very hard to control my anger.

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In the name of God, why? No animals were harmed in the production of this comic (probably). No typhoons hit. No bodies were secretly laid in the concrete of a building's foundation (that I know of).

The birds sing, the wind blows, the sky is still above and the earth below. All is good in the real world.

So some fictional characters get the shaft. And? Yes, it sucks. It's no fun for the fans, and it's remarkably bad decision-making from the editorial staff at Marvel for volumes 2 & 3. (I've got much higher expectations for Omega, given the rep of the creative team.)

Yes, this is Alpha's last chance. Absolutely. For now. Kind of. Let's face it, "reality" changes as often as the people in charge. Quesada won't be in charge forever, editorial staff change, and sooner or later, one way or another, old properties get revived. Alpha did very well at one point. This is, in itself, proof that the concept is not unsellable. Those who claim that it is are merely trying to cover up their failure with excuses.

Sooner or later it will be done right. Someone will have an idea, it'll stick, and things will fly. In the meantime, there are more productive things to get worked up about.

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Ed...I have every right to be angry about the current state of Alpha Flight (and duh...We all know they're fictional)...Don't presume to tell me how I should feel. I happen to like the characters of the original Alpha Flight..So sue me, if I get peeved that they've been "killed off, shoved into limbo, ignored, written to look like jokes, etc...

I have no problem interpreting the differences between reality and fiction, contrary to what your implying or what you may believe. you can keep the subtle insults about my mental state to yourself.

Yes...I know Alpha Flight may come back (at some point...maybe when Joke Quesada is no longer EIC), but that's no gaurantee their return will be any better than Vols 2 or 3.

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I think the issue and the jokes about reality and fictional is coming from your anger about ALPHA FLIGHT and blasting about it in the OMEGA FLIGHT (based) thread... so everyone's associating your "anger" about "This is not Alpha Flight" - and everyone thinking, "Well, we know that - this is Omega Flight."

But all in all - when it all really comes down to it - everyone's gonna do what they wanna do. Whether they pick up the issue or protest it... :)

NOMINATED FOR LONGEST POST - EVER.
This post contains: Sugar, Sodium, Sucralose, and Sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Tawmis

Lots of Stuff

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I agree whole heartedly.


I also second the nomination for longest post.
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