How would people feel if...

For all its problems, 3 isn't my least favourite volume.

It's the only thing in the world I'm willing to call a 'guilty pleasure': for me, everything else is too guilty to be a pleasure, or too pleasurable to feel guilty about. (In practical terms, what that means is: If the guilt is about morality, if I think something is immoral to do, I try not to do it. (Which doesn't always mean I succeed.) OTOH, if it's about quality: if the point of something is enjoyment, and I'm enjoying it, I have a hard time saying it's bad. I can, however, see the objective badness of v3 but still enjoy it.)

Edit: Garry, looking at your post above, do you sometimes get that thing where you put up your post and all your carriage returns disappear? (That's actually the reason for this edit.)

~ Le Messor
"Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever."
~ Anonymous

I actually enjoyed V3. That's not saying much as that is the only volume I have been able to read from start to end with the help of the TBPs being on sale. I was skipping around reading V1 due to the order I was buying the back issues as I find them and I still have a few big gaps in my V1 collection to fill. My favorite so far has been the team-up of F4 and the scrambled eggs attacking. With AF having tribal related characters also helped keep my interest. the only crazy moment I have had and got me going...WTH...is when Walter is a woman. Which I labeled the Caitlyn Issue. sorry to be off topic. Bring back dead Puck II!

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed V3 a lot.
It did seriously damage AF's reputation though as they became a joke team with a joke book.

Hence the decision to kill them off.

Enough time has passed so they're finally respected again; they won't complicate things.

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Originally Posted by Mekko Hotvle

I actually enjoyed V3. That's not saying much as that is the only volume I have been able to read from start to end with the help of the TBPs being on sale. I was skipping around reading V1 due to the order I was buying the back issues as I find them and I still have a few big gaps in my V1 collection to fill. My favorite so far has been the team-up of F4 and the scrambled eggs attacking. With AF having tribal related characters also helped keep my interest. the only crazy moment I have had and got me going...WTH...is when Walter is a woman. Which I labeled the Caitlyn Issue. sorry to be off topic. Bring back dead Puck II!

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Heh - well technically the topic of this thread started as ALPHA FLIGHT being called (TEAM MEMBER) AND ALPHA FLIGHT (like NORTHSTAR and ALPHA FLIGHT as the series name; sort of like WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN).

For Volume 1 - what issues are you missing?

And if you're only WTF moment in V1 was the Walter as a woman, I'm surprised!

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Originally Posted by Phil

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed V3 a lot.
It did seriously damage AF's reputation though as they became a joke team with a joke book.
Hence the decision to kill them off.
Enough time has passed so they're finally respected again; they won't complicate things.

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Which is odd - because look at the Great Lake Avengers, or Squirrel Girl... Plenty of joke characters that actually thrive...

Of course, the New Warriors suffered the same fate; that dreaded limited series (very cartoony and silly story) sealed their fate apparently to be the ones to die to trigger Civil War...

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Originally Posted by Mekko Hotvle

My favorite so far has been the team-up of F4 and the scrambled eggs attacking.

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Issues #2-4 and 18? Those are some of my favourites, too.

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Originally Posted by Mekko Hotvle

... when Walter is a woman. Which I labeled the Caitlyn Issue.

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That's more than one issue.

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Originally Posted by Phil

V3... It did seriously damage AF's reputation though as they became a joke team with a joke book.

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Hence the guilt to my pleasure. :oops:

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Originally Posted by Tawmis

And if you're only WTF moment in V1 was the Walter as a woman, I'm surprised!

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Mekko does have some huge (but as yet undisclosed) gaps...

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Originally Posted by Tawmis

Which is odd - because look at the Great Lake Avengers, or Squirrel Girl... Plenty of joke characters that actually thrive...

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Howard The Duck, JLI...
I know it's subjective, but I enjoy the humour in all those books more than v3 (but I do enjoy the humour in v3).

There's something... a certain je ne sais quoi that makes those titles all different to v3. I want to say they respect their characters, but not all of them do. There's a respectability to them, though, that's lacking in v3.

~ Le Messor
"Tony the Tiger, Snap, Crackle and Pop were all murdered. Police are on the hunt for a cereal killer."

I have some down time this weekend I planned to go see what issues I am missing and hope to go to a couple stores in searching of AF. The nearest store is an hour away from where I live. but with that said, I did find the TPB of The Gift and the Spiderman/AF team up recently.

The most recent issues I read where the 4-part miniseries that had to deal with Her (I actually only read 2 issues of that so far) but that seems to be good so far.

and I read the Amazing X-Men/ AF Wendigo event.

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Originally Posted by Mekko Hotvle

I have some down time this weekend I planned to go see what issues I am missing and hope to go to a couple stores in searching of AF. The nearest store is an hour away from where I live. but with that said, I did find the TPB of The Gift and the Spiderman/AF team up recently.

The most recent issues I read where the 4-part miniseries that had to deal with Her (I actually only read 2 issues of that so far) but that seems to be good so far.

and I read the Amazing X-Men/ AF Wendigo event.

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Do you live within the US? If so - let me know what issues you're missing. I may be able to find some and send them your way.

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Originally Posted by Phil

Mentioning them means admitting Volune 3 happened...

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Mentioning Heather "killing" Snowbird admits that the Mantlo era existed.

Less embarrassing than Vol.3.

I actually think thats a good idea. Northstar`s not my favorite character but he`s easily the most mainstream character of the group.

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Originally Posted by Mekko Hotvle

The most recent issues I read were the 4-part miniseries that had to deal with Her (I actually only read 2 issues of that so far) but that seems to be good so far.

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For the record, when you're looking at your gaps:
You have (or at least have read) volume 1, issues #97-100. That mini-series is just a newsstand version of those issues (which were direct-sales only).

~ Le Messor
"By 2000, politics will simply fade away. We will not see any political parties."
~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

Mentioning Heather "killing" Snowbird admits that the Mantlo era existed.

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He did some stuff that was all right; but the stuff that he did that was bad, was actually REALLY bad. (Like Killing Snowbird...)

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Originally Posted by Phil

Less embarrassing than Vol.3.

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Less embarrassing, but no way less painful to read (for the most part).

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Originally Posted by after3

I actually think thats a good idea. Northstar`s not my favorite character but he`s easily the most mainstream character of the group.

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Without a doubt, his exposure on the X-Men has made him very main stream; further enhanced when they full embraced his sexuality and gave him a wedding - that put him on the actual NEWS in the United States.

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

For all its problems, 3 isn't my least favourite volume.


...

Edit: Garry, looking at your post above, do you sometimes get that thing where you put up your post and all your carriage returns disappear? (That's actually the reason for this edit.)

~ Le Messor
"Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever."
~ Anonymous

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The thing that gets me is when the number "eight" turns into a happy-face for no apparent reason.

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Originally Posted by Phil

Exactly.
If they bring up one thing it'll lead to the other.

Not saying they won't bring the characters back from the dead at some point; comics after all.

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Well, thinking about it a bit more, there are lots of characters from Alpha Flight I hope Marvel doesn't mention any time soon.

When Alpha Flight first appeared, the problem was creating a team basically from scratch, out of whole cloth. Now, with soooo much history, mentioning one thing will bring up good memories/bad memories, depending on what iteration/stories of Alpha Flight are liked the best. The Mantlo era is still my least-liked run...and that's saying something because Department H owned Alpha Flight in just about every conceivable way in volume 2.

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Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

The thing that gets me is when the number "eight" turns into a happy-face for no apparent reason.

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That happens when we put a parenthesis after it, like this: 8 ) (space added to prevent that happening). 8) without space.

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Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

Well, thinking about it a bit more, there are lots of characters from Alpha Flight I hope Marvel doesn't mention any time soon.

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You're not wrong... and yet, I can't help thinking that, handled right, even the bad memory characters could be turned.
I could see me liking stories about even some of my least favourite, if done right. (And I don't mean killed in painful ways.)

~ Le Messor
"By a Carpenter mankind was made, and only by that Carpenter can mankind be remade."
~ Desiderius Erasmus

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Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan

Well, thinking about it a bit more, there are lots of characters from Alpha Flight I hope Marvel doesn't mention any time soon.
When Alpha Flight first appeared, the problem was creating a team basically from scratch, out of whole cloth. Now, with soooo much history, mentioning one thing will bring up good memories/bad memories, depending on what iteration/stories of Alpha Flight are liked the best. The Mantlo era is still my least-liked run...and that's saying something because Department H owned Alpha Flight in just about every conceivable way in volume 2.

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Well, that may be the "blessing" of when Alpha Flight was killed off (off panel, no less) by the Collective.

Because when they were brought back after the Chaos War thing, they seemed to be operating simply as Alpha Flight. All the previous baggage could be mentioned, but wouldn't need to be. Nor does it seem like they're tied to Department H. They were simply Canadian Super Heroes, similar to the X-Men (I say X-Men, because the Avengers is frequently tied to the government).

I never had a problem with Department H or with them being the Administrative arm of AF. Always felt right to me, not an NGO group who came and went. I liked how realistic that was and not like SHIELD, as Stark et al has no need for tax money to run the Avengers and they can be "altruistic" and think they aren't part of the establishment (though it leads to some really, really inane story lines). Having access to Department H and it's resources is good, but maybe it's time to make one of AF the actual head of DEpartment H, and not a bureaucrat. Have Dept H run AF but AF in charge of Dept H, quid pro quo in a new way.

I don't mind either way - part of the government, not part of the government. Both make sense in their own fashion, both have advantages and disadvantages.

What I don't like is the 'shocking, change-their-world-forever' storylines once a year where they join the government, quit the government, join the government, quit the government. Lather, rinse, repeat.

~ Le Messor
"Quit, don't quit... Noodles, don't noodles... You are too concerned about what was and what will be. There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."
~ Oogway, Kung Fu Panda

My only problem - other than what Le Messor noted (off and on again relationship) - is that Department H felt very "X-Files Government" to me.

I mean, not originally. Originally they were just a government that backed Alpha Flight. But it felt like as writers tried to make use of, or explain, Department H, it just became more and more "The Truth Is Out There" and "We have a billion secrets" and "We must control Alpha Flight."

I liked the government angle, but it dragged on and needed a resolution that never came because of cancellation.
I wouldn't want to revisit it,

That creepy-government X-Files angle was very common in the 90s.

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

That creepy-government X-Files angle was very common in the 90s.

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Yes it was, probably thanks to X-FILES, actually.

I recently read West Coast Avengers issues (I forget what issue numbers they were but it was a two-part.) Anyway, I got the issues based on the idea that somehow that AF would be doing a guest appearance since it involved AWC and Wolverine in Canada and Russian's were plotting to start a cold war. Well no AF and they made U.S. Agent seem goofy. end of rant.

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Originally Posted by after3

I actually think thats a good idea. Northstar`s not my favorite character but he`s easily the most mainstream character of the group.

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He is without a doubt the most popular member of Alpha Flight because of the "X"-posure in X-MEN.

Wouldn't Puck be able to lead AF? Puck is a likable character and I think people would get onboard if it was the Puck and Alpha Flight series. I am not sure how he did leading the Uncanny X-force, so if he did bad leading them, then forget what I said.

Going back to Furman's run, Puck wouldn't want to lead the team.

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Originally Posted by Phil

Going back to Furman's run, Puck wouldn't want to lead the team.

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But he's been to Hell and back - literally, apparently - since then. That changes a man. :)